Honestly, I haven't seen a single "Evil Batman" who's genuinely an interesting inversion. Be he Wrath, Prometheus or Owlman, it's always a boring reversal focused on a single aspect, instead of really using the whole. You have a supergenius billionaire who's also probably mentally unwell, and all you're doing is churning out generic palette swaps? For me, Owlman is the core antithesis, and he should be an all-encompasing sort of mirror image. Me I'd do it like this:>instead of growing up rich, this Bruce Wayne is a middle class kind obsessed with statues and power>instead of loving his parents to the point of obsession, he resents them for being uncouth louts >instead of using his smart and resources to fight crime, this Bruce Wayne uses his smarts and willingness to do anything to do anything, in order to climb the corporate ladder and get into the weapons design industry>instead of trying to provide peace, he's all about destabilizing the world through constant wars that keep bringing him more money and connections>instead of being restricted to Gotham he travels the globe to do all his dirty deeds>he turns into his alter ego in order to ascend to something greater and create a myth around himself out of pure egotism>he adopts the Owl as it's the symbol of wisdom, and is also a bird of prey, as he sees himself as the smartest and most capable guiding hand for the world>he travels the world to train under people like Ra's and some dark magicians in order to power himself more and more>doesn't have a Robin analogue because he detests being close to anyone>willingly embraces the dark and things like occultism, unlike mainline BatmanYou don't even need E3 to do this Owlman, you could turn him into an OC and plop him into the main DC Earth. A Batman with no limitations instead of pale reflections.
>>150346360Evil Batman should be a cannibal
>Bruce Wayne watches his parents murdered>goes ‘that was awesome’ and follows Joe Chill>is the world’s greatest mugger now
>>150346360James Woods Owlman works if you subscribe to the idea that Batman just doesn't want to see anyone die vs. Owlman who literally wants to destroy everyone and everything for the fuck of it. That might also be what The Batman Who Laughs does but I don't know jack shit about him.
How many "Batman but evil" do we have?
Owlman (or at least the JL Movie version) is the best Anti-Batman imo.
>>150346360If you want to make an worthwhile "Evil Batman", it's worth looking into the characters that inspired Batman as well as the evil counterparts of the character that Batman comes into conflict with.>Batman was inspired by Zorro, The Shadow, Sherlock Holmes, Dick Tracy, Dracula, Superman (so this includes the characters who inspired him), The Phantom, Doc Savage, The Bat, The Spider, Mandrake the Magician, Nick Carter, Rocambole, John Carter, Tarzan, Da Vinci, King Arthur, Frankenstein, Robin Hood, and a handful of Jewish/Christian and Greek mythological-religious characters.An "Evil Batman" is hard to do because Batman's core premise is basically just an urban fantasy King Arthur/Robin Hood who came back to Camelot having transformed into a heroic Dracula detective, except he refuses to kill his enemies. Making "Batman but evil" into a single character for an antagonist isn't impossible, but it just comes across as unreasonable, at least for mainline comics. Maybe if you combined all of his main supervillains into one character, you could do it.
>>150346360It's worth pointing out that Batman was originally a millionaire, so a new "Owlman" would have to be working class, especially now that Batman is a billionaire. I like your idea of Owlman perpetuating the military-industrial complex and turning himself into a mythic figure. Like a counterpart to Ra's who just wants to keep the world in permanent suffering (whereas Ra's wants a culling to bring about renewal and transformation).Also worth pointing out that the Owl isn't just a symbol of wisdom, but also a symbol of death, sickness, with owls acting as messengers and familiars of dark powers and the spirit world/divine realm. Owls are also associated with alien abductions.I feel like Owlman would benefit from being/doing supernatural stuff: he mind controls, brainwashes, or possesses people to do his bidding. Like Dracula meets Fu Manchu and then blended with some CIA spooks.
>>150346360>I haven't seen a single "Evil Batman" who's genuinely an interesting inversion.Uhhhhh bro? Your Batman Who Laughs?
>>150348665I like James Woods' Owlman but he falls into the problem that most nihilist (suicidal/self-destructive) antagonists have in that you can only use them like once or twice. Good for a movie, but not fit for a comic book. An evil eternalist Owlman could be quite fun.>he doesn't want to kill everyone because he already knows that it's a fools errand and practically impossible>instead, he takes pleasure out of killing people and enslaving them since he knows that it's a cycle that will never end
we have that he's called killer mothhe's right there waiting for someone to use him in a fun way
>>150346360Honestly, if I'm being honest, anyone who begins a sentence with honestly, if I'm being honest, needs to be honestly, if I'm being honest, beaten to death, honestly, if I'm being honest.
>>150349442I feel like working class doesn’t fit Owlman, but it would be perfect for Killer Moth. Moths are already a symbol of poverty. Killer Moth also has the original concept of a true anti-Batman, being a hero for criminals. Moths are also the main prey of bats.Combine that all together we have a man who grew up in poverty, resorted to a life of crime, and views all other criminals as victims. He dresses as a moth to symbolize how he sees himself as oppressed and Batman as the oppressor.
>>150346360>I haven't seen a single "Evil Batman" who's genuinely an interesting inversion.uhhh>fascist>drives around in broad daylight and everyone has to obey him>able to come around to the viewpoint of his enemythat worked fuckin well for me.
>>150346360>Honestly, I haven't seen a single "Evil Batman" who's genuinely an interesting inversion.You have and his name is The Joker.
I like the idea of a Thomas Wayne, Jr. that basically everyone knows is Owlman, but they're too afraid to do anything about itThey even have to deny their knowledge to his face because they know he'll use it as an excuse to kill them because he does technically need a civilian identity to get byHe's that much of an asshole that he'll try to goad people into not playing along
>>150350574That’s such a cool suit
>>150349577Killer Moth's problem is that his original premise needs to be leaned into rather than giving him the Edgy Serial Killer gimmick that characters like Calendar Man got slapped with, or just turning him into a tragic pathos-filled dramatic character like Mr Freeze or Two-Face or Killer Croc (these characters either die and fail, turn to the side of good, or act as a neutral force/wild card).He originally debuted as a nameless criminal who created a wealthy socialist persona. Not too dissimilar from The Shadow. >>150350321Good angle. I feel like Killer Moth should be an anti-Batman in the sense that he's almost supernatural, sorta like a cryptid. A walking mystery, a drifter of sorts. If Batman acts as a positive chaos to restore harmony and social order, then Killer Moth acts to deliberately undo that harmony by feeding the evils that Batman wasn't able to tear out. Maybe go for some political/social commentary where Killer Moth sees jailed prisoners as slaves, and he values the criminal lifestyle as a form of true freedom and modern barbarism. Nihilist/fascist Moth?
>>150346360There should be an evil Batman who is poor and retarded but possibly sane. His still living parents force him to be a super villain or they will kick him out.
>>150351461Back when we had BatMoth shipping threads there was a surprising amount of discussion regarding Killer Moth's nature as an antithesis of Batman. Not only is KM directly opposed to Batman in methods, motivations, and aesthetics, the idea was thrown around that he's the antithesis of Batman in terms of concept and mythology. KM is not the superstitious and cowardly lot, he knows damn well that Batman is a man in a suit backed by money, gadgets, and friends. He no sells the entire myth of Batman that Bruce works so hard to maintain. At the same time KM isn't some grandiose figure, he's a lower-class, career criminal who goes out and squares off against a Nietzschean ubermensh figure in a fight he knows he's going to lose because him being there is enough to beat Batman. To parapharase a Hypercrisis thread, crime is an idea, Batman is the response, and Killer Moth is the rebuttal.
>>150353239I wish Killer Moth was given more love to be taken more seriously.
>>150349254Jack the Ripper, but he acts overtly, is a cosmological patrician, and is immortal.Easy
>>150353445He's had a surprising amount of use since 2020 that doesn't treat him as a complete joke. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's necessarily serious use but there is a respectfulness to it compared to how they used him between CoIE and Rebirth.
>>150353627That's not saying a lot when modern Bat books are terrible. Especially that Batgirls book where Cass & Steph are complete jokes.
>>150346360Here is your evil Batman, bro
>>150349487>BatKek>goodGo back.
>>150346360Slade/Deathstroke in 2003 Titans is about as good of an evil Batman as we'll ever see and that's insane to think about
>>150349254So, like Moriarty meets Mordred?
I liked the Forever Evil Owlman. I think Johns kinda nailed it with the obsessive control freak angle.
