Kind of a question thread. What's up with the DC Finest books like Batman Year One & Two including other stuff out of chronological order? Like if someone is trying to collect any DC story in a somewhat chronological order then what purpose does it serve to put in not just other comics unrelated to the main stuff but don't even put it as they happened storywise? Instead they seem to do it by publication date. Are all the DC Finest books like this? Wasn't the point to make reading these books easier? Why not just put Year Three in there instead?Feel free to discuss other books that poorly collect comics together or you just wish included more than they did.
>>150406629Most people just want the comics in release order.
>>150406629The issue is that Year One wasn't printed as a mini-series, it was printed as Batman #404-407, then reverted back to the Max Allan Collins Batman run set in the (at the time) "current" timeline of the book. If people want the "chronological" order, it falls apart quickly, since there's a ton of stories that vaguely take place between Year One and Year Two (most of the Legends of the Dark Knight, The Man Who Laughs, etc), and then mini-series that have eventually usurped other books in canon (Long Halloween and Dark Victory basically replacing Year Three, etc), and that's not even entertaining the notion of the Golden Age books potentially still being canon.
>>150406715Well yeah but that's over thinking it. Put the Year comics together. Can't even get Year Two individually anymore. Why go to the Jason stuff & jump around the timeline like this book does?
>>150406629>Instead they seem to do it by publication date. Are all the DC Finest books like this? Yeah that's largely the point of the line. >Wasn't the point to make reading these books easier? Trying to untangle chronology isn't any easier than just reading a slab of comics in the order they came out.
>>150406629>Wasn't the point to make reading these books easier?How is it not easier?
>>150406841Because it jumps around time from Year One to Jason Todd stuff.
>>150406736No, you're the one that is overthinking it. It's collecting sequential runs of comics. It's DC's answer to the Marvel Epic Collections.
>>150406874IF it was done for the sake of chronological volumes collecting everything that'd be fine but it's not that case at all. It's jumping around too much in this Batman book alone.
>>150406969>Batman #401–412, Annual #11>Detective Comics #568–579It's not jumping around at all. It's the issues as they came out.
>>150406856Most people can deal with nonlinear storytelling just fine anon
>>150406999It's just confusing when they market it on those specific Year stories but it's also trying to chronologically put the post-Crisis comics together. Even if the stories included together don't actually have anything to do with each other. I dunno. Maybe they should number them too.
>>150406629>wanting to read things in chronological order>not release order The people who do this are genuine retards.
>>150407030We wouldn't need charts, encyclopedias, or wikis if this shit was all easy to understand reading orders.
>>150407051>>150406715Literally explained to him why it's release order and not chronological and he still doesn't get it.
>>150407059I do get it. I still think it's dumb & mislabeling.
>>150407044That's the thing Epic Collections have over Finest, but Finest have the years on the spine so if you were physically looking at them you'd have it right.
>>150406736>Put the Year comics togetherThat's asinine. Go by the trades of those if you want it.
>>150407069Fair.
>>150407062I don't think you get it
>>150407076You can't. Only Year One has a trade always readily available. Year Two is long out of print & Year Three only JUST got it's own physical.
>>150407056That's why DC Finests are printed in reading order, also known as release order
>>150407085I do. Publishing them as they were released. I just would rather have the specific storylines.
>>150407105Well then, you'll be happy to know that the specific stories year one and year two are quite easy to find in their own individual trades and are quite often in print You can even get year 3 for good measure
Also also the DC Finest Red Skies skips over stuff like Black Mask's first appearance. That's kinda annoying. Showing it's still not a full chronological collection.>>150407111See >>150407086
>>150407120There are year two trades for 17 dollars right now all over ebay, imcluding the very first trade printed so if you actually wanted it you could have itTime to get a new bit
>>150407131Used books from ebay of all places is not worth it. I'd rather have something that I know will last & not already falling apart. Plus ebay is just unreliable.
>>150407142This just straight up isn't true. I buy used stuff off of eBay all of the time and in general it is nearly new. You're just a stupid cunt who wants something to complain about.
>>150406629>>150406793Insanely stupid. Fuck DC. Fuck the industry.
>>150407212Wow you sure convinced me. Anon it's a huge gamble even ordering new condition books from amazon or B&N. Ebay sellers aren't gonna give a shit.
>>150407223I don't know what to tell you dude, I can think of maybe 2 problem purchases I've made out of over a hundred. I think you're just a simpleton who wants to bitch and complain
>>150407260Yeah okay.
>>150406856So just like they were printed as the comics were coming out. >BUT THEY HAVE TO BE PRINTED IN-WORLD CHRONOLOGICAL ORDERThat would be an absolute cluster fuck because there is no true chronological reading order when flashback stories and later retcons and stories set in the past were published later.
>>150406629Actually it is in chronological order. The only problem with the stories in the volume is that DC changed their mind about rebooting Jason Todd's origin several issues into the post Crisis Batman reboot>>150406715You are a n-words faggot. The whole point of the trade and DC's Finest is printing shit in chronological IE publication order. That means running Year One and two as originally published as that is their PROPER fucking place in chronology retard. Not shoved in with a bunch of golden age comics
>>150407120Black Mask's debut is going to be in the trade before Red Skies, because they need that to market that volume.
Year 2 and 3 are not popular enough to be in perpetual print as standalone trades. Very few comics are. I hear Waid recently made year 3 canon over Dark Victory and that's almost certainly why year 3 got dug out of its grave for a trade by itself. You can choose to skip the non year 1 and 2 issues that are in DC Finest and go to the year 3 hardcover that recently released if that is what you want to read. The DC Finest book has a table of contents and it has page numbers.
>>150406629The whole point of these volumes is that they're a collection of issues in release order, with some issues having never been collected before. The context of publication is part of what you're buying here. It even reproduces the original colors in the case of Year One. This, in my opinion, is the coolest thing about these though it will naturally lead to uneven volumes (I don't even think Year Two is very good).You're thrown by Year One being a flashback story (which it also was for monthly readers in 1987), but that's an incidental part of this volume in particular. Most volumes won't have that because those kinds of arcs aren't common. They started with the volume that includes Year One because it's a popular story, but all the volumes are structured this way. They're just jumping around a little for variety (pic related is the most recent that just came out).
>>150407216What is stupid about it? The only thing I would change is making the publication year range more prominent and on the front to make it clearer what these collections are. As a publishing model it's a good way to get this stuff out there.
>>150406793>a slab of comics in the order they came out.I think there is somethibg to reading them as they came out as readers of the time did. I was around then, but I was a bit young for reading the comics.
>>150407670>The whole point of these volumes is that they're a collection of issues in release order, with some issues having never been collected before. The context of publication is part of what you're buying here. It even reproduces the original colors in the case of Year One.Oh damn. I need yo check these out.
>>150407891The volume with TKJ uses the original colors for it, too.
>>150407216I think you may be a brainlet
>>150407905Only issue I have is they used the later colors for Year Two instead of the original colors
>>150407670Really wish they could have thrown in some introduction essays for these volumes. The Nocturna shit was confusing as hell as it apparently was a massive three year long storyline that Red Skies only collects the finale of. It would also of helped to explain the schizo-nature of Y1&2, as far as explaining to fans shit like why Barbara isn't around in Year One and how they decided to reboot Jason's origin several months into the Post-Crisis era.
>>150408005>Bro I bought a random collection for comics published forty years ago, why don’t they explain everything?!?If something is confusing to you, why don’t you google it?
>>150406856DC doesn't have a coherent chronological order and never has. I understand the desire for it, but it's not functional.Putting aaide how rough things are now, even after CoIE most continuity ultimately boiled down to "Only what came after the most recent reboot is guaranteed canon, anything else is increasingly hazy and only applicable in the broad strokes, and only really if it's actively referenced."Year One is, well, year one. What happened between and later should be thought of as "Generic Batman - he fought his rogues, don't think about it." This also means that how coherent the chronological reading order is ends up shifting - the book the most closely meets that criteria that's printed now wouldn't be the same as one printed 10 years from now. It would be with this publication format. Year One and Year Zero don't really align, but they're not really meant to. You're meant to have the IDEA of Year One in your head while reading Zero, but you're not meant to think about it. That sounds dismissive, but it's not.
God, Year Two sucks so much. No wonder Denny fired Mike Marr.
>>150407670Sure I get that. But say it's someone that wants to start with the Post Crisis continuity. That technically only starts with Year One even if it keeps some previous continuity. Maybe they should've collected that Bronze Age stuff prior first like they're doing with the Golden & Silver Ages then move onto the post Crisis content. Otherwise, I hope they release a DC Finest set before Red Skies comics at least.>>150408069No I get that. That's why I ignore the modern continuity stuff. New 52 keeping bits of old canon didn't work with the kind of stuff they sent up long before the "lost history" established in I think the Teen Titans books with Wally first. Batman only existing for 5 years & having all his Robins wouldn't work for example.
>>150408005>>150408025See this is the problem. This is the kind of shit you need to explain in your comics. Just a little summary blurb explaining Infinite Crisis & the continuity changes would help readers immensely. If these are for those readers then do that. Comic companies shouldn't make people have to find their own answers elsewhere. That's the kind of thing that makes people find comic books too confusing to get into.
>>150408069Zero Year sucks so much ass, I really thought they retconned it away with Rebirth, but goddamn Zdarsky had to drudge it back up. And so did Waid in his History of DC book.
>>150406629Is it me, or is DC releasing a lot more DC Finest books than Marvel is releasing Epic Collections in the same period?
>>150410614Marvel definitely is holding back on keeping them in print & making more.
>>150410675Marvel has always been a lot worse than DC at keeping things in print. It got better once Perlmutter left, but it DC is still better at it.
>>150409597Complete noobs are not very likely going to randomly start reading Batman from 40 year old comics in this format. They’re going to read Hush, Killing Joke, Batman Year One in its own single trade, etc.And you will do homework if you care. This doesn’t deter real readers. It deters casuals who would give up anyway.
>>150411159I can see it both ways. But say you get like a manga reader who's used to volumes collecting things in order & straight forward. They should be able to have that clear understanding available through the book. When the Transformers manga was rereleased in recent years, the book gives context to what certain things were from & other context bits to understand the stories.
>>150410614It's a new line, and as such they are able to print a lot of, for lack of a better term, big stories. Marvel still prints and reprints a lot of epics but a lot of them are kind of random shit, like they are printing Rom and Micronauts right now.I do think it's kind of crazy that they don't keep certain epics in print, though, it seems like its impossible to get shit like early spiderman rn.
>>150410614For 2025 DC has 35 Finest and obviously all of them are new. Marvel has 40 Epic Collections, 27 Modern Era Epic Collections, 4 Ultimate Epic Collections, and 6 reprints. I don't pay attention to the modern stuff so I didn't realize just how much they were pumping out.
>>150409597This post isn't wrong. Everyone knows you don't make your customer's life harder than it needs to be.
>>150411255They let a lot of the Epics go out of print. >like they are printing Rom and Micronauts right now.They're doing that because they know there's a demand for them for a long time from the older crowd, and they likely had to pay Hasbro something in order to do that. Hasbro was probably glad to do so because they'd been trying to get Rom and Micronauts off the ground since the 2010s and it hasn't been working because they got far removed from the Marvel stuff (out of necessity)
>>150411205>But say you get like a manga reader who's used to volumes collecting things in order & straight forward. They should be able to have that clear understanding available through the book.It’s not hard to buy volumes of specific DC/Marvel comic runs.
>>150412135For big stories no. For everything within the continuity yes.
>>150412190It’s not. Any new person is going to buy trades and that is easy as hell to do online.
>>150411314The DC marketing turds ITT are really bad at their jobs.
>>150412219You're not getting it. Trades are only going to by & large collect the big storylines. They're not collecting anything inbetween. You'd have to already know with the DC Finest exactly what you're getting continuity wise with homework first. Because these books don't explain it.
>>150412032I have a hard time believing they'll sell more of the first 25 issues of Rom than they will the first 25 of spiderman, but maybe it's a gen-x collector fomo thing.
>>150412257The point is that the kind of people who are buying DC finest are already the kind of people who've done the homework. The kind of people who are confused by Batman continuity are going buy Year One, Long Halloween, TDKR and Hush, which is why those trades are essentially constantly in print.
>>150412032Only tangentially related, but I am reading the Power man and Iron Fist epics, and there was a weird issue that didn't have a cover and only had 7 or so pages and then a single page summation of a fight they got into with a "mysterious silver cyborg," and it took me a second to realize that it was a Rom crossover issue, but it was before Marvel had permission to use those characters. Very strange.
>>150412296I mean yeah fair I guess.
>>150412273Ron is a comic with a huge cult following plus there is the fear/knowledge that the fucker will only be printed this one time and have visions of how the the early individual Conan/SSOC omnibuses quickly became $1000+ books on the secondary market due to them selling out immediately.And if anything, Marvel's learned their lesson from leaving money on the table softcover-wise with Conan and Masters of Kung Fu as far as not everyone wanting/able to spend $100 for multiple omnibuses in rapid succession.
So like, are any of these worth getting?
>>150412378Do you just see an op pic and post without even skimming the thread?
>>150412324Seriously? Why didn’t they just skip the issue, that’s so weird way to do that.
>>150412419Yeah, it's fun.
>>150409586That's not really how post-crisis continuity worked. It mostly just continued where things were with a few changes. For example, Jason Todd was still the new Robin, but his character was changed fairly radically. Things continued, but the story then had flashbacks to show the new continuity interspersed with the ongoing narrative as though that's how it had always happened. There's no real, smooth chronological reading order there. The primary concern was making things feel like they were still moving forward for readers at the time of publication. There was no fresh start for Batman post-crisis. He just had patches to his continuity as things kept going. Some characters received a fresh start, like Wonder Woman, but not the Batfamily. Chronological orders aren't for reading, they're an exercise for hyper fans. >>150410122Zero Year was such a hot bucket of shit. An absolute turd that didn't even have the decency to be brief. What amazes me is that now DC is putting it out in Absolute - they're happy with the fucking thing. Even people who loved the Snyder run slammed it for being terrible at the time.
>>150413169That's why I'm saying some context to explain "these issues are here & these issues are after this event so go read that" at least. Y'know a little blurb is all.
>>150410740I can't tell you how much it pisses me off that Punisher War Zone, of all things (the first Chuck Dixon/JRJR arc) has been out of print as a collected paperback for almost two decades and goes for $100+ online.
>>150412478Yeah, it's not like it somehow tied into a longer story or something. It was very bizarre.
>>150412378>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DC_Finest_trade_paperbacksYou make the call.
>>150414796I can't believe that fucking Deadman, Metamorpho, and Sgt. Rock already have DC Finest collections, meanwhile I've been waiting for years for Spectacular Spider-Man, Web of Spider-Man, and Marvel Team-Up to get an Epic Collection. Also Alpha Flight, but I can understand from a financial perspective why that ain't happening.
Do you get confused by flashbacks in other stories?
>>150411255>>150412032ROM and Micronaunts also probably have a specific period of time Marvel is allowed to reprint them before having to renegotiate the contract for the rights. Like how they slammed out a bunch of Conan and Master of Kung Fu collections that are now either getting reprints at other companies or not at all
>>150414839The lack of Marvel Team-Up Epic Collections is strange because Marvel Two-in-One has them. Surely a Team-Up series featuring Spider-Man should have more demand than one featuring the Thing.
>>150415102The last two Two-In-One epic collections were released last year and this year; they likely did that because they wanted something out there during the Fantastic Four film release
>>150413169The way I see it, no matter what issue of a comic you start with, you're usually starting in media res -- that's the whole point of "secret origins" issues, they give the reader background on the characters without interrupting the current storyline. Pre-Crisis events are usually covered in later flashbacks/retellings anyway. It's an awkward way of reading, but I'd recommend just starting from the definitive Post-Crisis beginning (Batman #401) and figuring it out from there.Marvel's slightly better at this than DC by establishing that anything published before 1961 is in-universe propaganda loosely based on real events; it's basically their way of saying, "You don't need to read Golden Age Human Torch/Namor/Captain America/whatever."
>>150414839I *think* they make more money on omnibus than epics. Most of those things have had Omni collections.>>150415102I've noticed that they seem to put issues of team-up in other epics, the Iron Fist epic has his issues of Team Up.
>>150415284They also rereleased the first and third fantastic four epics (the origin, and the one with Galactus.)
>>150407216>company decides to do something really cool>autists have a meltdownFuck you and never return
>>150415965>really coolWhere?
>>150406629>>150406715I don't get the confusion, isn't Jason Todd's new origin story a flashback story as is Year One?
>>150416082These DC Finest collections are the best thing going today
>>150416272I ordered 2 more today
>>150416306Based as fuck.
>>150416272That's really sad.
>>150415345Marvel's way of doing it is also confusing.
>>150416306What's in the horror one?
>>150406629>hear horror stories about Jason Todd's character being confusing to read about during the first post-Crisis issues>read DC Finest>no issue with Jason prior to 408 makes any mention of being a literal Dick Grayson clone>for the rest of the volume Jason during 408-411 is just as similar to pre-408 JasonIs another case of people complaining and overexaggerating? I used to think post-Crisis Jason was only around for two short years from early 1987-late 1988 but nah, he was there in late 1986 as well.
>>150416427Do you just hate everything? What reason could you possibly have to not like collections of older comics that haven't been collected before or stories that are so oop it's retarded to hunt them down?
>>150416720House of Secrets 81-85, House of Mystery 180-185, Phantom Stranger 5, Witching Hour 3-7, The Unexpected 113-117Basically a snapshot of their horror comics for a few months at the start of the bronze age
>>150416787I don't like scams, especially in the form of marketing ploys from the industry. I don't like fucktarded publishing conventions. I don't like the industry refusing to put legitimate effort into the comics they publish. I don't like readers that just bend over for them. This is a reminder of all these things. They're throwing you bones, and you're saying thank you.Comics should be so much better.
>>150417146I agree. Release the Captain Marvel original comics. Unironically. Racism & all.
>>150417174I almost have a feeling these will eventually be licensed to Fantagraphics
>>150417146How is getting more complete runs with long neglected issues included just throwing bones?This is the most high effort move DC has put into collecting their comics in ages.
>>150417185Don't Fanta Duck books have censored portions?
>>150416740Mike Barr and Alan Davis liked the idea of Robin/Jason Todd being a sweet goody goody type and wrote him as such in their Detective Comics run. The issue ultimately came about because of editorial. Batman had pretty shitty sales in the 80s and there was a huge bit of backlash internally over Dark Knight Returns being a direct market only mini as they felt that DC left money on the table not selling it as a newstand book or worse, not publishing it as part of the main Batman book ala Moore's Superman finale.
>>150417305So the order was given that Year One would run in the main Batman book, derailing Max Collins (a normie writer who had just gotten into writing comics and had a super popular franchise reviving Dick Tracy comic strip run under his belt) and his run, which had just started. Adding to this, while Davis and Barr were happy with the pre-Crisis Jason Todd backstory, fans HATED it and DC decided mid-game, that they were going to pretty much throw out the Pre-Crisis origin and to placate Max Collins, let him create the new version of Jason. Which pissed Barr off mightily as he didn't like the darker edgier Jason. And backing Barr up, was the fact that Marv Wolfman was also extensively using Jason in Teen Titans at the time AND that Jason had appeared in Legends where he played a key role in beating Glorious Godfrey. The end result is that the Barr/Davis run pretty much became nebulously non-canon for decades while DC didn't even try and reconcile the Collins Jason Todd reboot against Legends and Wolfman's usage of Jason in Titans, saying instead "it's all canon, we aren't going to reconcile it". It wasn't until the Absolute Crisis HC that DC stated outright that only the first two issues of the Barr/Davis run (the infamous "Catwoman is brainwashed evil again" arc which was editorially mandated upon Barr/Davis) were not canon and that again, "we aren't going to even try and reconcile shit.
>>150417338Ultimately though, Barr ragequit after being told that DC's solution to the Robin continuity quagmire was to ban Barr from using Jason in Detective Comics/make him exclusive to Batman... which pissed Barr off because by that point DC had hired Jim Starlin to write the main Batman book and Starlin DESPISED Robin and was going to give Jason AIDS to permanently write him off, before editorial decided to do Death In the Family. And Alan Grant was too afraid to say ANYTHING that might have saved Jason because he only got the Detective Comics gig as a duo alongside John Wagner and Wagner fucked off when he out how DC only gives royalty bonuses if a book sells a certain number of copies and was afraid he'd be fired if DC found out that Wagner noped out and wasn't working on the book after the first couple of issues on Detective.
>>150417146>scamsWhat a strange and angry person you are.
>>150416271Nope. After seven months of Batman stories featuring Jason and him having a major role in New Teen Titans (rescuing Nightwing from Brother Blood and saving Raven's mom/freeing her and Dick from Brother Blood's mind control), DC let Max Collins reboot Jason's origin as taking place there and now both as a lateral move towards fans who hated Jason being a copy paste version of Dick and to appease Max's ego after he got told that his run was being put on hiatus so DC could run Year One in the main Batman book.
>>150417338Post crisis was such a clusterfuck right out of the gate.
>>150412478the issue of Power Man has some major subplot shit that made it unskippable and Marvel took a huge amount of hate from fans when they skipped the issue in the Essentials. It was even worse with Hulk, where Rom's appearance takes place in an issue that is absolutely critical in setting up the events of Hulk #300, to the point that when they first collected the Mantlo run, they basically ran as much of the issue as they legally could while sticking in text pieces to cover the pages featuring Rom since it was such a huge issue that couldn't be skipped. It's also why a lot of people are super fucking pissed off that Marvel killed the Masterworks line, as they were one or two volumes away from getting to where under the current licensing deal for Rom, they could have reprinted the full issue of Hulk and the MIA Rom/Thing team-up from Marvel Two In One; a huge thing as Marvel had previously forked over money to reprint the Doc Savage issue of Marvel Two In one exclusively in the Masterwork line (while skipping it in the Essential and Epic line, even though it was a super important issue that introduced the villain for the Project Pegasus arc).
>>150410614It feels like Marvel isn't putting out enough for their own characters because a huge chunk of the production pipeline is being overtaken by Star Wars and their other old licensed comics like Aliens, ROM, and they especially pumped out Conan while they had the license.It was especially bad as a Punisher fan, since Marvel was also trying to bury the character for a few years there. Outside of a reprint of Circle of Blood 2 years ago, there hasn't been a new volume since 2021. This is only finally being remedied with a new volume coming in March.
>>150416891Technically it's not the start of the Bronze Age horror shit. The official start is House of Mystery #174/175 (#174 is the first Joe Orlando edited issue and he basically ran an all-reprint issue to pre-Code House of Mystery stories to buy some time to get original content up and running for #175 due to him getting the job on short notice). They only started with HOM #180, because that same month, they resurrected House of Secrets (which had been canceled with issue #80 a couple of years earlier) and they want all the books in the volumes to be synchronized to release dates. That said, it's decent but HOM #174-179 have some good stuff in them and while the hodge podge format means we'll get some unpublished material from other DC books, it sadly means it will take hell and ever to get to the unreprinted issues of House of Mystery as the omnibuses and Showcase Present volumes stopped around #225.
To be fair, none of the SW shit has been reprinted and they've been forcing fans to buy $150 omnibuses to get Epics that are OOP. Also, they had a TON of complaints about the Conan Epic releases as they opted to focus near exclusively on the Dark Horse Conan shit and utterly neglected the classic Marvel run to force fans to buy the omnibuses instead for the classic Marvel run. This had a bad pay-off by the time they lost the license: they had only put out about 4-5 Marvel Conan epics (with the volumes being published sequentially) and didn't even fucking reach a decent stopping point (Conan #100, which had the death of Queen Bael, who was a major figure in Conan for about 40-5 0 issues); as they only got as far as #88. Which left the Bael plotline unresolved.
>>150417354>and Wagner fucked off when he out how DC only gives royalty bonuses if a book sells a certain number of copiesThat must've been a high bar if it wasn't practically a guarantee while writing fucking BATMAN.
>>150417408It makes you realize that DC deserved to get their shit kicked in by Marvel for not thinking head. And then it would happen again with Nu52.
>>150417394So basically, 408 is the actual start of the post-Crisis Batman era? Despite having already started the post-Crisis era back in November’86?
>>150417868Technical #404 is.
>>150417146You seem like an asshole who would never be happy no matter what
>>150417905And Detective Comics 568-571?
>>150417954
>>150417980Bruh what the hell was Denny O’Neil doing
>>150418013Hey at least what we know for sure is DC was always bad at reboots & introducing people to them.
>>150417271Because these are comics only completionists would appreciate. As was stated in the thread before, it's a clusterfuck, and people are being baited with YEAR ONE & TWO on the cover.>This is the most high effort move DC has put into collecting their comics in ages.Like I said, that's really sad.>>150417385>>150417948Lovely projection. There's no way I'm a fraction as unhappy as you are.I'm pretty happy guy, but the comics medium, which I love, is in deep shit. I don't delude myself, though.
>>150418591If you think simply collecting issues of Batman and Detective Comics in order is a clusterfuck then you might just be dumb.
>>150418639It is. It absolutely is. They don't even collect all the Bronze age stuff prior to Red Skies.
>>150418646Because they're filling it in just like Epic Collections. Did you not notice that Red Skies came out after Year One & Two?
>>150418670Yes but who knows when they'll get to that & not just prioritize more of the big stories onwards. Already did Killing Joke.
>>150417338>>150417354Is this real or is this another one of your dumb Insider Fanfics where you imagine a creator ragequits or some shit
>>150418681Yeah the Killing Joke picks up right where Year One & Two leaves off. They're steadily filling in that era.
>>150418713Yes but not the prior. That's my point. Unless the Silver Age collections lead to a Bronze Age collection line after.
>>150417470>the issue of Power Man has some major subplot shit that made it unskippableThis isn't true, the only thing that happens in the pages that are collected in the book are that Bob Diamond and Colleen Wing kiss and contemplate dating.There isn't any subplot stuff.
>>150418756It's all getting filled in. That's the point.
>>150418786Pinky promise, anon?
>>150418591>I got filtered because I'm a barely literate retard!>Nuh uh I'm not angry you're angry!
>>150418796Take it or leave it. Or just keep whining about nothing and getting yourself upset.
>>150418836I'll wait till they actually fulfill the idea rather than blindly trust them to not be incompetent.
Softcover books arnt omnis
>>150418855Omnibuses don't have to be hardcovers.
>>150406629The real issue is that Batmsn Year One is hot hog shit that later inspired Kevin Smith.
>>150418013Batman sold like shit in the 80s and they were abandoning the cross title serialization that DC pushed to prop up Detective Comics and didn't have creative teams fully ready (especially since they already decided to suspend the Collins run to put Year One in Batman plus dealing with Alan Davis's slowness).So they had Barbara Kessel and some random dude write filler stories for one month that only had minor connections to Legends via Glorious Godfrey/G Gordon Godfrey show up, but even then they fuck up his appearance (he's blonde with no glasses is Batman 401 and a short fat black guy in Detective 568).
>>150407670To be honest I always felt like Year One always read better AS part of the ongoing comic itself. It gets hyped and everything but it's not really a complete story. Having it as a flash back gets you it and the context surrounding it.
>>150418013Doing Joe Casey tier level of drugs to bring himself to arousal so he could rape Vic Sage, who he got stuck writing after convincing editorial to keep Alan Moore from killing Vic off and was politically incompatible with
>>150407670>(I don't even think Year Two is very good).Year One has Batman get stabbed by a child prostitute who he never ends up helping. And he further lets an innocent man be burned alive while running from the police. The dinner party scene is garbage too, where he decides to scare everyone just because.
>>150417338> (the infamous "Catwoman is brainwashed evil again" arc which was editorially mandated upon Barr/Davis)So happy to see this post and find out there’s a reason those issues are so bizarre and bad and feel out of place
>>150418913I mean it inspired a lot & Frank Miller was downhill as a writer & artist after Dark Knight Returns.
I really don't get why any of this is confusing. Readers both new and old had to read this stuff as it coming out so things like retcons and status quo changes aren't new many readers even then were coming in blind for the first time. Comics are funny in that the more you try to explain them the more confusing they sound but if you just read them it actually is really easy to just roll with things. I don't get why this is suddenly such a hard thing for people to understand.
>>150418975Them always being confusing & complicated to collect doesn't make them good for being this today.
>>150418986But they're easy to collect now. They've never been easier. They're not back issue hunting. They're not looking for the missing gaps or any information at all. They're getting everything in handy convenient little trades now, have wikis to look stuff up on, places to ask online and it's somehow harder for them then it ever was for us.
>>150418591>lovely projection>continues to be an angry whiny little retard because these books haven't gotten to what he wants yetWay to prove everyone right
>>150418953(You)
>>150418953You have to have an ounce of testosterone to enjoy the work of Frank Miller
>>150418999Yes & it only took them till just recently in the last few years to actually do so for so much older material. But it is still confusing & none of it is being done released in order.
I didn't know the DC Finest books were this controversial, I usually only hear good things about them.
>>150419030>But it is still confusing & none of it is being done released in order.It literally is. You can pick up any volume of DC Finest, outside of an event, and you will 100 percent understand everything that happens. Are you really expecting them to start from a volume 1 and work their way up from the 1930s just to appeal to autists?
>>150419040They aren't, it's just a handful of noisy people in this thread. The line has been a big hit
>>150419040They're fantastic. Don't listen to the retard.
>>150419048Yes. They already did that. They should keep on the trajectory & fill up to the bronze age already then start with the post crisis continuity stuff. Why are you against making these things easier to read & understand? I swear the one anon saying the thread is filled with low effort DC shills was right.
>>150419063>Why are you against making these things easier to read & understandBecause I'm not illiterate
>>150419040OP is just some unfunny guy trying to start shit
>>150419063>the thread is filled with low effort DC shillsIt is, just like the DC Compact threads. They will peddle subpar product like mad.
>>150419030>Yes & it only took them till just recently in the last few years to actually do so for so much older material. Bull-shit. Since like the early 00s Marvel was for example selling their old shit on CD-ROMs where the comics could be read. Both DC and Marvel were reprinting their old catalogs in black and white through Showcase presents and Essential lines. They might have not covered everything but for the past 20 years there’s been nonstop reprints of old comics spanning several different decades of material. It’s never been easier to read comics than today yet people like you act like it’s impossible task when people could do it when they had to rely on reading whatever random back issued they could track down through chance
>>150419112>OP gets mad>OP calls everyone calling his stupidity as shills>OP changes his phone IP to make a post agreeing with himself and to shit on DC Finest and DC CompactThis is the sort of shit Marvel shills would do when something goes wrong, shit on DC for petty reasons in order to distract people from whatever Marvel controversy is going on
>>150419112>don't talk about comics on a comic board
>>150419063>You don't think they should collect every single issue, in order, from the 30's on, and keep them in print continuously?>Obviously you're a shill!You're too autistic for comic books. Pick another hobby.
>>150419128Not even trying to hide it, kek.Fuck Marvel too. >>150419133>>150419138You guys are too obvious. You're not discussing comics so much as chastising people for questioning the trainwreck product.Don't worry. Most of /co/ doesn't even buy comics anyway. Go focus on Reddit and X.
Rereading OP and are they mad that it’s not like in continuity chronological order? Because doing the crazy anons “keep everything in print in order forever” argument wouldn’t change the fact Year One is still Batman 404-407 and would be printed between 403 and 408
>>150419183You're the only one having an autistic meltdown over the way DC is choosing to publish some great books.
>>150418591>Because these are comics only completionists would appreciate.And what? They should never be catered to, only you?The coming reprinting business should only be cranking out copies of Watchman and Killing Joke until the end of time?
>>150419346What new clueless reader specifically wants to start reading Batman from 40+ years ago? You’re throwing tantrums about imaginary customer base that doesn’t exist. New readers gravitate to newer stuff and evergreen stories. They don’t want to jump into some random run for decades ago and then complain when they don’t understand things
>>150419367>Imaginary customer base that doesn't existOkay how u know, nigga?
>>150419390These are comics nobody talks about, so how would a casual/new reader even know or specifically want to read them instead of newer stuff? Where is the droves of people new to comics complaining they tried to read this collection of Batman and won’t read anymore because it’s too confusing? Nowhere
>>150419468Good thing there are gonna be multiple volumes of this with all kinds of eras for people to pick and choose from, huh?
>>150418591>people are being baited with YEAR ONE & TWO on the cover....They're also in the book, though. Any reader can ignore the other issues if they want. You can argue that it wouldn't be worth it to spend $40 on just those two stories, but that question can be present for any collected volume of anything ever.
>>150419498Yes. It’s going to be good for those readers who are already used to comics and are curious enough to want to go read decades old stuff that’s just standard serialised comics without big epics.
>>150406629Cool. What is this?
>>150417338>first two issues of the Barr/Davis run (the infamous "Catwoman is brainwashed evil again" arc which was editorially mandated upon Barr/Davis) were not canonDamn, I just got the second part of that story spoiled for meBut also, I’m a retard for not having read it yetCan you explain how they “officially” de-canonized it? I thought the first part was a fun Joker story
Bump
>>150420883DC Finest, DC's answer to Marvel's Epic Collection line.
It is kind of funny that people are dogpiling on OP and acting like it's absolutely, completely impossible to print Post-Crisis in chronological order. After all, there's just 9000 charts online explaining the exact way to do it and it's the most common way for newcomers to seek out the stuff. The hard truth is /co/ doesn't want to admit DC would sell much better if they did something like "Batman Vol.1" as in One Piece Vol.1 that could be read as a single story, without needing to google anything or purchase anxiliary books. It could be in the size of a One Piece volume, with the same paper quality, for cheaper cost to allow the entire run to always be in print. Earlier in the thread someone mocked OP for suggesting the start of continuity should always be in print, yet that's not an issue for manga with over 100 volumes for some reasons.Another hard truth is the monthly floppies should abandon their redundant series and publish a single Batman title instead of Batman, Tec, Batman and Robin, etc. Publishing three Batmans the same week might mean a bigger sales number in the short term, but in the long term (not even that long, sometimes just one year after) you have a new reader having to post a question asking how the order works between Tec and Batman. And sometimes it doesn't matter, but then you have a crossover like Moster Men and suddenly it does. A single Batman book where storylines were qeued that would go into all the splinter books could allow for something like a weekly release schedule a la Judge Dredd. And Annuals are the biggest long term oversight of them all. Clearly /co/ isn't ready for that conversation ever, but even with comics like Fantastic Four, which started with a clean #1 in 1961, you need to look up that you need to slot Annual #1 between issues 18 and 19. Genuine embarrassment.
>>150406629Omnibus editions don't work for comic books. Illustrated books need space to breathe. Are they cheaper than hardbacks? Yes, sort of. But comic books are a visual medium.
>>150421047You don't even know what omnibus means.
>>150420983>One PieceImagine someone demanding a One Piece collection to start with all the flashbacks in chronological order so you start with the Calgara story lesson , then move on to Big Mom's flashback, followed by the ongoing Rocks/Harald shit then the Oden garbage then move on to the SH backstories. Imagine starting those with Sanji's retcon ass second backstory with the robotic power ranger nazi retards and then his original one with Zeff. Imagine the person who wants this nonsense calling WSJ retards for not publishing One Piece 300-324 then 1450-1600 then 800-815 then 20-25 then jump to 136-150 and keep going for a while from there until you start with actual issue in 1 and continue onwards for like two years of publishing, but with all the flashbacks taken out. This would be like the tenth volume of the collection mind you.Inb4 I know I've made a leap of logic because Year One and such have less immediate and creative continuities but I hope you get my point. Anthology compilation projects MADE FOR COMPLETIONISTS such as these should remain in production order. You want the famos stories, but the standalones.
>>150406629publication date is the best you retardfirst thing these dc epics did was bridge my gaps in Gardner Fox JLA and Broome Green Lantern that were missing from the silver age collections.Now I just need complete 60s Batman
>>150421108Now imagine a One Piece collection starting with the beginning of Luffy's journey, his... "year one." And then continuing with what follows after that. No, that's absolutely impossible.
>>150421291But Batman's equivalent to Luffy's "Year One" is an old ass Golden Age comic. Luffy did start with episode 1, they didn't have to tell Frank Miller to update his image. And funny thing is, the anime actually didn't start with Luffy stabbing his cheek, they fucked it up, then the manga then and smeared all that Sabo shit over it. Yet no sane guy would want those stories published one after the other because they understand they were conceived years apart, which is why I think production order works for comics. Year One and The Long Halloween exist in much tighter vacuum (plus Long Halloween sucks fucking shit and Eye of the Beholder is much better) so the fact we get it back to back with the dark but still campy mid 80s stories really puts it into perspective. That's the cool thing about these DC Finest, and if you're a stickler for chronology no one is stopping you from collecting standalone editions anon.
>>150420983Because most people start reading the series long before it hits 100+ volumes, dumb fuck. In case of DC and Marvel you would have 60+ decades of comics to rear from the beginning and with Superman and Batman that’s 80+ years. You think most people would appreciate the crude art and not be frustrated that the stuff they want is 20+ years away in volume 68?
>>150421368>>150421528Batman's equivalent to Year One is Year One. You keep talking like putting things in order is a completely impossible, out of the question task when in fact it's been done a thousand times over the internet and is how new readers seek out to get into the character most of the time.
>>150421614But Luffy's isn't, and Luffy stabbing himself on the cheek is more akin to pic related. I repeat: no one in his right mind wants to see the Shanks flashback, then the Sabo flashback back to back. And these DC Finest are not for these "new readers" who end up reading Killing Joke Year One MAYBE Long Halloween and watching Batman TAS then never touching a comic ever again. It's for people who want to dig a little deeper and get into old ass comics.
>>150421683I don't know what "Sabo" is, you retarded weeb. The point in my original post was that DC keeps during things for short term gain while ignoring the long term confusion this creates. Publishing a single Batman Saga series of volumes could end decades of "Batman reading order" having 200,000 Google search results. Even RIGHT NOW, Mark Waid is doing a story all by himself in Justice League Unlimited that happens at the same time as the story he's writing in Superman and will lead to DC KO. That's fun to keep track of while it's coming out monthly, but two years from now it'll be incomprehensible and people will have to look up a reading order. And that's idiotic. And you push back against sensible solutions that have already been worked out by fans. Not casuals who don't touch a comic again, mind you, but lovers of the medium who read all of it to be able to create charts like the one I posted above.
>>150419734I don't think the DC Finest line is specifically targeted towards new readers. I'm sure they could pick them up and be fine but the Compact stuff feels more new reader friendly. It's one and done shit usually and the Finest line seems targeted to the more dedicated readers who couldn't get these stories before.
>>150421728So autists? You could have just said that without all the fucking screeching. Most people love this format and what they're doing. They're gonna get to it eventually and they're pumping out some strange things on the side as well. Maybe appreciate this is even happening instead of crying about how you can't makes chart at the moment
>>150421728Don't bring up One Piece if you don't know shit about it then you mouth breather. I don't give a shit what Mark Waid is up to now and these tomes are a great way to collect these old issues for the people who will buy them, unlike those ones who can't handle the nature of comics. Get bent.
>>150421804Non sequitur. The charts were done years ago but new readers trying to understand the timeline do new ones every year because DC refuses to print things in a coherent way. You don't even understand what I'm arguing for. "They're going to collect it eventually" wouldn't be needed if they just printed what is a single storyline in a single book numbered from 1 to the last issue that doesn't require people to google where an annual should be read six months from now.>>150421816>I don't give a shit what Mark Waid is up to nowDon't bring up comics if you don't know shit about them, then, you mouth breather. People understand you start reading One Piece at volume 1 and DC could do the same with Batman with orders already mapped out years ago but they'd rather publish a volume that jumps around different decades in his career and if you even suggest things could be slightly better you get told to keep your head down and be thankful we got this much.
>>150420983These collections aren't particularly for newcomers, though. They don't exclude them, but they're simple bulk collections that collect material without comment or curation as they were published (more or less), in some cases issues that rarely see reprints. That's a feature, not a flaw. I understand what you're asking for but that's not what these are intended to be.
>>150421851Nothing I said is a non sequitur. And your post is more autistic crying so there's no point in continuing. This has been explained to you over and over but you keep circling back. Hopefully they keep doing it exactly like this and working you into a tantrum with each new volume.
>>150421851You should look at Epic Collections and realize that this is how you get what you're advocating for. It will take time but so would starting from the golden age stories again.
>>150421851>they'd rather publish a volume that jumps around different decades in his careerHis "career". What a laugh. The opposite is true actually. Chronologically obsessed faggots have their brains on backwards. Shocking how I can like the output of a specific era of comics and want to have it all netly arranged instead of having a bunch of faggots telling me in what order to read it. If you read that steaming pile of shit Long Halloween first and you think any of the butchered to shit character work in that story has anything in common with 80s depictions of those characters, then you have fucking brain damage. Faggots the bunch of you.
>>150419138>>150419067Shills.>>150419221All my hang ups could be fixed if they didn't hinge it on advertising the big stories like Year One & Two but also added context for the Pre/Post Crisis continuity.
One Piece can be read out of order. Continuity is for chumps.
>>150421683My brother in Christ it is as simple as starting the New Earth Post Crisis continuity of Batman WITH his first chronological story. Yes a previous Detective Comics story is TECHNICALLY published before in the new continuity but officially Year One is the start. Then you just go from there to tell that continuity as straightforward as you can. You can keep the publication order if you must but just having either linear order of all the Post Crisis Batman would be better than nothing but only scattered trades.
>>150421899And it's good the Epic Collections are doing that. DC should be doing the same rather than going back & forth on the timeline with their DC Finest books alone.
>>150422288Not everything is about you and your autism, pal
>>150422632It's MY thread.
>>150422669Yes. And it's very stupid.
>>150422737What's stupid is defending backwards practices & not agreeing that DC should make reading their backlog easier.
>>150422791What's stupid is whining because a company isn't making a product to meet your specific sperg taste.
>>150422825You're retarded! That's a company's job! You make a PRODUCT FOR THE CUSTOMER!
>>150420931Absolute Crisis had a companion book bundled with it where they stuck problematic post Crisis books like the two parter, the Catwoman serial where Holly got killed and Catwoman framed her killer for several murders Selina committed, the Vertigo Shade the Changing man series, the Silver Age Hawkman appearances that happened post Last Days of JSA that couldn't be pinned on the Carter Hall Jr spy character, and the Shazam New Beginning mini into their own universe, Earth 85
>>150422914They're making products for the customers. Just not for your specific dumbass needs.
>>150422385The approach is identical.
>>150423209You're clearly only here to complain rather than offer any actual genuine well meaning argument. Nothing about wanting coherent easy to follow collections of comics is ridiculous.
>>150423240Clearly it's not. Epic collections are more akin to DC's other line that collecting classic books. DC's Finest is a mixed bag of where they start & what they collect. So far not even releasing what they have in order.
>>150423259Epic Collections were not released in order. They started with a mix of hits and neglected stories and filled out from there. Which is exactly what Finest is doing.
>>150421614They are "in order" in the DC finest, though. You're arbitrarily deciding that you want it to be in a different order.
>>150423242You're clearly here to bitch because not everyone is as autistic as you. Don't like the way they're doing it? Don't fucking buy it but they're selling well and the overwhelming majority of readers are enjoying these. You'd complain about anything because you're a miserable little dipshit.
>>150423265Then you're right. It is the same. Both bad.
>>150423296>I don't like it so it's bad
>>150423296So you've been completely clueless about everything this whole time. You can't fix stupid.
>>150423314It's bad for having to wait to fill in the blanks, give no context for the issues pre/post crisis, & lacking credits.
>>150423293Loosen that tie, man. Like I told you before, you're better off on Reddit.
OP is really getting deranged, huh
>>150424290I'm the one arguing FOR easier reading. Not the one going ballistic here.
>>150421851Nobody but people with way too much time in their hands cares, dude. Chronology bullshit is dumb as hell. It’s inane. It doesn’t mean anything. It doesn’t make things better it doesn make them more consistent, it’s fanboy lore wankery
>>150425249Nobody but people with way too much time on* their hands bother with comics, dude. People prefer manga because they can just pick it up and go without getting confused.
>>150425318Exactly this. Manga can be consumed in order easily without much if any fuss insofar as collecting the stories goes. This isn't meant to be an east vs west thread but it's clear there's this blind support for backwards western practices over doing it right from the get go in order.
>>150425318People also just drop manga series after just one or two volumes
>>150425381No they don't. You're just saying shit now. The average manga reader collects the whole series.
>>150422995It's weird that Shade was declared Earth-85 and Hellblazer wasn't since they cross over. And New 52 pretty clearly references Vertigo Shade since that's the only version anyone knows. iirc, Vertigo Constantine got fused with Main Constantine (at one point he mentions having memories that can't have happened), so maybe it's something like that and we can all just consider Hellblazer and Vertigo Shade canon and not think about it too hard.
>>150425318>>150425344People prefer manga because they like manga, dude, I don't think the average reader is even thinking about this as much as you are. Most people who read manga are kids who go "oh cool there is a comic version one piece? I want to check that out!"
>>150425416Oh please
>>150425552>>150425558You're delusional. I don't think you've ever touched a manga before in your life or even know manga readers.
>>150425344And honestly, come to think of it, the thing that you're talking about is a detriment, not a boon. If I want to read Batman, there are a shitload of self contained Batman runs that I could grab and enjoy reading. I'd love to pick up one piece but I'm never going to because it would require buying and reading over 100 volumes (and still going, I believe) in order to get the full narrative. The problem isn't manga vs. comics, the problem is that you're acting like you need to read comics like you'd read manga, and you just don't.
>>150425606Oops, was meant for>>150425416
>>150425606You're right. You don't NEED to but say you only want to read a specific continuity with as much as it can offer for a specific character. That's not an easy task just for New Earth Batman alone.
>>150425416>>150425581Are you speaking for yourself? Can you take a picture of these complete manga series you buy? Even a screenshot of the order page like this guy over here could suffice. >>150416306
>>150425684Get the DC app then and read them digitally? I think you're talking about such a tiny demographic of potential comic readers who want to read an entire characters continuity but doesn't also want to collect floppies. I can see it for something like Starman, where it was a single writer for the entire run, but there's a lot of dogshit Batman that I'm fine with skipping.
>>150425684This is what they are doing with DC finest. You're just angry because they aren't releasing them in the order you'd like.They also did this with Batman specifically, they sold like shit and weren't kept in print.
>>150425552They do the same for capeshit, but because there is no reasonable publishing at the big two, they give up and just watch the movies.
>>150425716Okay. This is an older picture that's grown since then but it's an example of part of my shelf collection.>>150425749These are still floppies. This is about someone who wants to collect fully as possible for specific stuff. And some more simplistic trades aren't in print for anything that's not a notable story.>>150425768They're not releasing them in a simple continuity order yes. They've only done it with the Golden & Silver ages.
>>150420983Just begin with Post-Crisis (unless COIE is in the middle of a run like New Teen Titans or Swamp Thing) and I agree with this completely. The Second Chances, Caped Crusader, and Dark Knight Detective trades tried to do this, but fucked up by forgetting some stories (the Legends crossovers and Mortal Clay) and splitting into multiple trades, with Year One and Death in the Family being their own trades instead of them all just being part of a single "Batman" series of trades.
>>150421683You could just ignore Pre-Crisis shit and it could work
>>150425930Speaking of shit, the Spectre DC's Finest does NOT include the "lost" Adventure Comics Spectre stories that DC commissioned but never published until 1988 in the Wrath of the Spectre mini. So that's book I won't buy since the three lost Wrath stories basically are the grand finale of that Spectre run.
>>150426043Doesn't that volume collect mostly 60s-70s stuff? I haven't the foggiest about Spectre but my understanding was that it would contain like mostly silver age shit.
>>150426185The Orlando edited dark Spectre stories were written but they were so violent that DC got fan complaints and has to scrap the series three episodes shy of its completion. The last three scripts were written but not drawn until they reprinted them in 1988. So you have wiggle room to stick them with the rest of the run since they technically were made in ilthe 70s
>>150426265Huh, I had no idea it was like that. I just read "1988" and asumed they were saving them for a potential second volume with Ostrander/Mandrake's run which I've been eyeing since reading and loving their MM series. This one seems to go till the early 80s but if those are considered "lost" and of the 70s series then there's a chance they won't reprint them yeah
>>150426308MAYBE they'll make a new trade for them? Or lump them into another book?
>>150426405>lump them into another bookI am thinking this. Seeing how autistic for publication years they're being, my money is on them lumping them together with Ostrander's and whatever Speccy came between them since that would make it like 88-92 on the chronology thing. I really really doubt they will reprint them by themselves, current day DC just would not re-publish something so tiny in standalone or else we'd have gotten many missing Anuals people have been clamouring for, this seems to be a similar situation. I will pay attention to this if a second one is announced since I wanted to get the volume.
>>150426043>>150426308The amazon description claims it has "Wrath of the Spectre #4", which I think is the issue in question, yet it's nowhere to be seen in the back of the volume. Which one is it, do you know for sure the back of the volume is the correct one? If not, can anyone who got it confirm?
>>150427059I literally double checked it in my local comic shop before putting it back on the shelf.Also, Ostrander's run is actually V3 not V2. In 1987, DC put out a Spectre series by Doug Moench that ran from 1987-1990. It sold very well, which is why DC even reprinted the 70s stories and got Jim Apro to draw the lost scripts.And the WOS stories are not readable by themselves as they are a three part storyline that wraps up the various plotlines from the Adventure Comics strips. So again, you can handeave to the timeline shit to include them in this volume but they didn't which makes for a fucked up mess.
>>150427411There's way more Spectre comics than I thought. Welp shame about the issue.
>>150426308They will probably include them in the next volume. The original solicitation didn't mention some of those BatB issues so they probably had to drop Wrath 4 to make room for them when rearranging things
>>150419346>The coming reprinting business should only be cranking out copies of Watchman and Killing Joke until the end of time?Yes absolutely there's still some colors left in Killing Joke they forgot to remove last time that they could remove and dedicate two pages to how it is "totally really is the original artistic vision this time" and then disparage the previous colorists and inkers and printing press manufacturers by name and ssn.
>>150428355And that's why DC Finest wins baby
>>150421614>Batman's equivalent to Year One is Year One.Every major big 2 hero has had their origin retold at least 20 different times.
>>150428386They kept the original coloring in DC Universe: The Stories of Alan Moore as well.
>>150423240>>150423265The main difference is that Epics have numbered volumes, so it's easier to figure out the order once a couple are out and you want to buy and read them properly. Seems like you'd need to consult a chart like the one on the wikipedia page for Finest.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DC_Finest_trade_paperbacks
>>150429604DC Finest shows the publication year.Marvel Epic numbers the volumes.It's two different approaches to the same concept. If you pick up a Thor Epic and it shows "vol.22" you know it's after vol. 21. If you look at the back of Batman Finest and it says 1984-85, you know it's right after 83-84. You don't need to consult a wiki for that... do you?
>>150429604Some of these listed feel a little redundant with their other line of omnis on older stuff. But mostly I'm just confused on the pricing with how DC Finest is so much cheaper in comparison.
>>150429665Eh, I just think it's inefficient. You don't even have to click on the actual link to the item's page on an online shop to know where a book goes when it just says DAREDEVIL EPIC VOL 7.>Oh, a new Spectre collection? Let me go look at the charts of years on the backs of the books to know where to put this one.
>>150429665If anything the DC Finest books are BETTER than Marvel Epic on this issue because not only do they list the publication years on the back of the book BUT ALSO along the spine. You can tell the books' intended order from a glance while they're still on the shelf, whereas Marvel Epic Collection requires you pull the book off a shelf and check the numbering on the back.
>>150429811This seems like the most minor of issues... I don't even know what to say. The DC books show their placement in the publication order on the spine and back of the book. You're confused because online vendors don't note a volume number? It's a non-issue.If I said the Marvel Epic books are crap because it doesn't tell me when the issues were published you'd have the same dumbfounded response. If you don't like it, don't buy it. The arguments in this thread seem to boil down to "I don't care that the vast majority of fans are pleased or that the books sell well... they aren't made precisely to my specifications, so they suck." Sorry, pal. Not every product is going to satisfy every customer. Most fans are satisfied. If you really want things made explicitly for you, I would encourage you to enlist in custom omnibus creators... worked for me.
>>150429939>vast majority of fans>I speak for everyone ever & no one is allowed to disagree
>>150429939This thread's faggotry seems manufactured to annoy because fans of old DC comics have been asking for something exactly like this for years and except for some weird omissions and hiccups it's turning out pretty great.
>>150429939Jesus, relax. I'm not having some freakout. I'm just saying volume numbers would be a useful tool.I forgot about the years also being on the spine. The only Finest book I have is Peacemaker, and it's currently sitting in my to-read pile rather than being on my shelf.
>>150429811man where's the Aparo Spectre collection DC!
>>150429604>>150429665I like DC's way because it's kinder on my OCD, I don't need every volume, if I just buy one Hawkman volume and leave it at that then it stands on its own, I don't feel annoyed at only having Vol. 5 of a series
>>150430004Eh whatever. The sales charts will either support my claim or support yours. No big deal.>>150430042I'm convinced at this point it's just good natured trolling. Every few posts the argument changes, first it was publication order vs ...some kind of nebulous narrative order. Then it was the books being printed out of order unlike Marvel Epic... until it was pointed out that Marvel Epic have been released in random order as well. Then it was numbering vs years.>>150430043I'm cool, man. Just chatting to kill time over here. Volume numbers would be nice but it is what it is. Also, I suspect DC doesn't want to number their books because unlike Marvel they have a more daunting Golden Age worth of books that might intimidate casual fans. Volume 3, 6, even 18 might not seem insurmountable but you tack on the GA era books and suddenly you have Superman Volume 48. A casual fan might just see that and give up. Too big a commitment you know? For all intents and purposes Marvel didn't start until the 1960's (yes, I'm aware of Timely Comics and WW2 era titles) with the launch of the Silver Age. DC started nearly 30 years earlier and DC has always been petrified of scaring away any potential audience with *gasp* big numbers. I don't get it, but they've been obsessed for decades on this issue.
>>150430213>there can't be multiple issues>there can't be discussion>don't ask questions>just consume product
>>150430266I thought we were having a conversation... I keep responding and you keep trying to shut it down. I suggested you NOT purchase it and you cry "consume" at me? I'm literally suggesting the opposite. Don't consume if it doesn't meet your standards. Keep your money. Don't support DC or Marvel or whoeverthefuck. Like I said, commission custom books made exactly to your specifications. It's very easy.
>>150430213Frankly I prefer the years to volumes, really cheeses me off when the Epic Collections have me looking for a volume that hasn't been released yet
>>150430213>For all intents and purposes Marvel didn't start until the 1960's (yes, I'm aware of Timely Comics and WW2 era titles) with the launch of the Silver Age.Even the Epic staff at Marvel agree with your position, given that Captain America Volume 1 is his return in the 60s.
>>150430387I still want them to do Timely epics though.
>>150430333Anon you've already dismissed all complaints & issues brought up. Just saying "then don't read it". It's not a conversation. You're the one shutting down anything of the sort with this.
>>150430145>>150430384That's interesting, I was considering it from the company's mindset... essentially how best to reduce the perception of a barrier to fans. Hadn't really thought about my own collecting preferences but your responses reminded me of my past grievances with the Epic line. I hated hunting around for volumes that turned out to be unreleased or OOP. Also, I never wanted the early volumes because I had already bought the omnis and/or Masterworks for many titles, and I had no interest in buying say... Amazing Spider-Man 1~12 for the sixth time!Also, there's specific periods where I recall going from a high water mark in terms of writer/artist content to a creative dead point, to then recover again. I want Conway/Wein Spider-Man, but I don't want Wolfman SM... but I adore Stern SM. With the Epic line I then have an unavoidable "number gap," whereas with DC Finest i guess the gap would still exist but it's less obvious. >>150430387I'm certain they will eventually consider a separate "Timely Epic" line if they think it'll sell.
>>150430477You voiced your opinion. Others tried to convince you otherwise, sell you on the product, or explain away perceived misconceptions... but you didn't like anyone's suggestions or offers of help.You can keep insisting that your preferences are infallible and superior but it won't change the situation. The product is what it is, DC won't change it for you. I suggested you send them a message by not consuming their product and you got shitty with me. We can't even tell you to not buy a product you don't like i guess?
>>150430602There you go making grand assumptions again. No some BUT VERY FEW actually cleared things up & made fair arguments. But it doesn't excuse the inherent issue of releasing these out of order & just randomly filling them in as they go. Stop dismissing the issue.
>>150430507>i guess the gap would still exist but it's less obvious.It wouldn't be more obvious with the years on the spines?
>>150413296I don't expect it to come back into print anytime soon. Dixon is persona non-grata at the big two these days with his politics. The only exceptions seem to be reprints of his Batfamily titles at DC because they're free money.
>>150418785NTA, but that sure sounds like important subplot details.
>>150430731A quick ctrl+f shows his material being reprinted as recently as last year.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel_Epic_Collection
>>150430679I don't know, pal... you don't like how DC designs their products. You don't like how people engage with you online...Maybe you're just a difficult person? How would you like this conversation to go?>I don't like DC Finest.I agree. >Thank you.>>150430703Not necessarily. Some characters (like Spectre for example) experienced years of dormancy, so the years noted would have natural gaps whereas numbered volumes would just show #1, #2, #3.It's a "softer" less explicit numbering system to show dates. Gaps aren't quite as glaring as numbered volumes. Say you had two series on a bookshelf, amd both had gaps for one reason or another, which triggers your OCD more:>A) 1974-75, 1975-78, 1980-81, 1983-84>B) #1, #2, #4, #6
>>150430850Stop typing like a redditor, blindly defending DC's obtuse practices, & dismissing issues with their releases. Maybe people will engage with you then. Just the fact it took till the mid 2020s for these collections to exist at all is stupid.
>>150430883The issues so far seem to be 1.Mad they aren't releasing them in the order you want and 2. Calling it Year One but it also has other stories in it and there wasn't a text piece explaining COIE
>>150430914Yes. Context is needed for readers & collectors to comprehend. Don't just start at the very end of pre crisis then jump into post. Start at the post at the very least. This is not hard to comprehend why someone would take issue with this shit. Stop being obtuse.
>>150430771Not really at all, especially because it's an early 80s comic, so the next time they have a scene together they are basically going to rehash their whole history. Honestly, the next chunk of issues all have to do with returning to Kun lun and a ghost ninja, neither of those characters even show up.
>>150430883I don't defend them. I told you to vote with your wallet. You cried. Your issues with the product are trivial to me, I won't bother trying to validate them. I told you to either get over it or don't support the product. You got pissy. I agree it took too long to get these volumes. That's why I'm happy we have them... you aren't happy, but you refuse to do anything about it. It must suck to be helpless, I guess. I don't know, just suck it up or make a decent argument for fuck's sake. You've changed your complaints so many times nobody even knows what you're gripe is at this point.
>>150430944I think I can pick up just about any issue of Batman, Detective Comics, or anything DC and comprehend it just fine. It's just comics.
>>150431001Then fuck off if it's so trivial. You don't care. You're blindly defending them.>>150431030That's not the point. The point of the DC Finest books is to make this stuff easier to read with a collection that's supposed to be in publication order. But they don't even start it off clearly from a good point.
>>150430944Why is this an issue?As a collector, I was really excited to see Red Skies solicited because the issues have never been collected before. If the Finest series started after COIE they'd continue to neglect these issues. Year One is an evergreen trade, it's been available in trade, omni, hardcover, etc. perpetually since the 90's. Same with Killing Joke. The main appeal of DC Finest is to collect the material that collectors have desperately begging for. If you just want the big stories you have options, if you want obscure, neglected runs this is the most expedient option. DC is specifically rewarding the fans they've been neglecting for years.
>>150431047I'm not defending them, I'm just saying you're retarded. DC sucks, but you're a pissy little baby. Keep crying because they didn't collect it based on your extremely narrow and autistic guidelines. There's like 15 different origin retellings for Batman, Year One, the GA 1st issue, various Secret Origins/Confidential/etc., those Hugo Strange Monster Men trades, Long Halloween, most of Legends of the Dark Knight issues, etc. ALL take place roughly in Year One. What you're suggesting would be 4000 pages long and would feature Batman meeting Joker for the first time... 6 times.
>>150431125I read all of those and the only redudancies happen across different continuities. New Earth Batman only met Joker for the first time once. I don't think you even know what happens in Confidential, Monster Men, Long Halloween or Legends of the Dark Knight.
All I want is Legends of the Dark Knight collected in full through a series of [numbered] TPBs. It's ridiculous that only a handful of stories were made into trades, much like how Hellblazer used t be before Vertigo/DC grew some braincells and decided to collect the entire series in order.
>>150431441Yeah, generally Legends of the Dark Knight is extremely solid into the high double digits, and even a few stories even into the triple digits, and what's been printed as collected has been out of print for decades and is now pretty expensive. I've collected almost the entire run from 1 to 100, but it'd be nice to have the whole series in an omnibus format.
>>150431441I got tired of waiting for DC to collect the series. It's such an underrated series.
>>150431469I'm extremely jealous.>>150431461An omnibus would be pretty great. I picked up the Batman and New Batman Adventures omnibuses recently and they've been a lot of fun.I miss episodic adventures that are mostly street level and I feel that Batman in particular SHOULD have way more of those than he does.
>>150431490It was a labor of love. Damn, you just reminded me about those Batman and New Batman Adventures omnis. I really need to pick those up soon.
>>150431490>I miss episodic adventures that are mostly street level and I feel that Batman in particular SHOULD have way more of those than he does.Read Dark Patterns as soon as you can, it's the spiritual successor to Legends of the Dark Knight in every way. Moreso, it's what Detective Comics should be.
>>150431541I'll probably pick up the trade at some point. I haven't bought an actual single issue since probably Action Comics 1000.I really loved Batman: The Audio Adventures as well as Batman: The Adventures Continue for recent episodic, low level stuff. In terms of all-timers, Gotham Central; Dini's run on Detective Comics; select LotdK stories; and some of Snyder's work on DickBats before New52 started were all great.
>>150431541If I told 10 year old me that he'd be desperate for stories in the style of Moench and Grant he'd have probably kicked me in the nuts
>>150431607Honestly there's a lot of good, episodic Batman stuff as long as it's not under the thumb of Bat-ediorial on Detective Comics or Batman ongoings. Batman as a character and a book work best when it embraces its pulp heritage with snappy, detective procedurals or pulp adventures. Batman at its worst is when it's character drama or meta-commentary ("Why doesn't Batman kill The Joker?") The strength of Batman is being an urban detective in a costume.
>Hey there's this problem of reading comics & only now are DC trying to address this issue but still in a backwards way. Maybe they should fix these problems to make it easier for readers.>FUCK YOU WE TRUE FANS LIKE IT CONFUSING, OUT OF ORDER, STARTING RANDOMLY, & WITHOUT ANY CONTEXT! DO YOUR HOMEWORK CASUAL!Thread has been filled with shameless shills from the start. Screw actual discussion & criticism I guess.
>>150431541I've gotten mixed answers on this but is Dark Patterns meant to just be it's own thing that CAN fit into any early days point of any Batman continuity? Or is it strictly like meant to be in the current mainline continuity?
>>150431782It's very much done like Legends of The Dark Knight, where it's just vaguely set in Batman's early years post-Year One, nothing about it connects it to current continuity in the ongoing Bat-books. Each "case" is three issues, then it's onto a new case for three issues.
>>150431541>>150431817I really like what I've seen so far, hopefully it'll become an ongoing. Can't wait for the hardcover.
>>150431817I'll take it. Unless they sneak in a reference specifically to the new continuity somehow. I don't even know what to call it at this point. I guess just post Flashpoint works.
>>150431774You're a disingenuous faggot. You have received actual discussion from people telling you why DC chose to do it this way and the problems that the proposed solution in the OP would cause. Namely, between Year 1 and Year 2 are a huge collection of stories and it is nebulous which are actually set after Year 1. Trying to get a 'definitive' collection of chronological stories would be basically impossible and even if it WAS possible, there is no way that you could publish both Year 1 and Year 2 in the same collection with all the chronological stories in between because even omnibuses don't contain 100+ issues. Given that DC wanted to advertise this collection as "Year 1 + Year 2" they chose to just include the issues numerically in their publication history.OP did not put forth any reasonable arguments other than 'I don't understand why they included the Batman issues that immediately followed Year 1 and immediately preceded Year 2 in their omnibus collecting Year 1 and Year 2.'Did you have a problem when DC did this the first time in the 80s? Oh wait, you definitely weren't born yet since you are clearly an underage retard.
>>150431898This series could have been coming out in the mid-90's and it would've been exactly the same as it is now. The only thing that could be slightly confusing from a continuity standpoint is Bruce is wearing the "yellow oval" costume and not the Golden Age costume with the big bat on the chest, but it could also just be a period of time he didn't have a Robin post-Dick leaving.
>>150431441I'd prefer HCs, but I know that would only happen through omnibuses which I don't care for. Either way I agree. Honestly I'd settle for standalone reprints of Shaman, Prey, and Gothic, but there's a lot of good stuff in LOTDK.
>>150431782Why does it matter one bit? Why can’t you just enjoy reading good Batman comics?
>>150431964There's a blink and you'll miss it suggestion that he's either recently adopted Dick or Dick is just about to become RobinWhen he stumbles into the cave at the end of Pareidolia you can see that Alfred was doing something with Dick's circus outfit
>>150431952>would be basically impossible and even if it WAS possibleIt is possible, fans have already done DC's homework for them>here is no way that you could publish both Year 1 and Year 2 in the same collection with all the chronological stories in between because even omnibuses don't contain 100+ issueAnd you can't do several volumes... why?
>>150432287I can’t believe this conversation is still happening.
>>150432287Fans don't agree on the order, debates have been raging for decades. Plus, as soon as DC decides to do another flashback issue or story arc, the new series would be made incorrect. Take Zero Year (or Year Zero... whatever), it didn't exist until just a few years ago. Had DC already started collecting Batman in the way you suggest there'd be no place to put this one. Also, it's a shit story... so you're starting off your series with a dud. Also, once you get past Batman's first 2 years... maybe 3, there's ZERO chronological order. Do you then start with Golden Age? Silver Age? Infantino's run? O'Neil? Post Crisis? Whatever your choice may be it's entirely arbitrary, and no doubt would piss off some fans. The safest, logical, and most widely appealing option is to collect Batman in publishing order. The vocal minority suggesting otherwise would be better off making their own collections, because DC will never satisfy you.
