Why is it that whenever I look at the rogues gallery of Marvel comics, I feel that it just pales in comparison to DC's line? Moreover, Marvel runs the gamut of not making any villains pure evil like Kryb, The Joker, or Anti-Monitor. Sure, Green Goblin, Carnage, Red Skull, are some obvious examples. But their acts of villainy always seem to get cut short compared to DC's where they actually manage to succeed. The rest of pure evil examples tend to fall under the cosmic or demonic category. Which can leave readers out of touch when exposed to examples of Judge Holden wannabe types, given the consensus of today's media culture.But aside from that, the most of Marvel's well known humans, particularly the human ones, seem to come across as more sympathetic and can't even bother living up to their reputation as genuinely evil. Examples such as:>Magneto>Holocaust survivor who crashes out after seeing a fellow jew named Kitty get shot, is often more of a fill-in to the philosophical counter of Xavier and the X-Men's dream; the worst thing he's ever done is either rip out an adamantium skeleton or reverse the magnetic poles of the earth (due to shitty incest writing, no less) >Galactus>Is not actually out to eat planets for the sake of it but does so because he was condemned to do it at the beginning of the universe>Doctor Doom>Read the Doom is a punk copypasta>Mystique>Closest to being a genuinely good evil villain but is deep down a bitch in heat who abandons her son Nightcrawler to go scissoring with Destiny>Venom>More borderline anti-hero addicted to chocolate than villainThe list goes on, but you get the idea. DC villains always seem the type to both walk the walk and talk the talk and are genuine threats while doing so. The best example I've seen Marvel do this is with Morlun. And he's even better than Goblin in terms of the villain factor. Marvel just has no balls. Period.
>>150417325The blurry nature of good and evil is intentional.
>>150417325
>>150417362But the aspects of which can be seen as pure good or evil from a morality perspective are clearer than you think.I'm not saying there is a purely Christ or Satan figure reigning among the galleries of villains between Marvel and DC. BUT there are obvious aspects of those two pillars of morality based on what can be seen in human behavior and how they manifest themselves into people. More specifically Superman and Joker.Marvel doesn't have that character dynamic and that's what I'm trying to say.
>>150417325>DC villains always seem the type to both walk the walk and talk the talkName 5 MAJOR Batman villains who haven't had a sympathetic backstory or redemption arc. I'm struggling to get to 3 and calling Zsasz a major villain is a stretch.
>>150417491I knew you were gonna ask that and I came prepared. Professor Pyg, Mister Bloom, James Gordon Jr, Hugo Strange, and Carmine Falcone.I'll add in others when I get back. Gotta make din din.
>>150417325>no Mephisto
>>150417671I said major. I'll give you Strange and Falcone and that's being extremity kind. Falcone feels more like a supporting cast member than a villain, I can't even remember the last story with him as the main villain. Don't even pretend Bloom or Pyg is on the same level as Clayface, Poison Ivy, Freeze, Catwoman, Harley, or Riddler. I don't think Bruce has even met Bloom?
>>150417798Except you told me which major batman villains haven't had a redemption arc or backstory. Not who needs one or can't be redeemed like you've shown below with your examples.Plus, trying to keep to the reputation of this thread, I was going for more irredeemable kind of villains. Unless you want to count the batman who laughs as a major villain and that's being extremely kind on my end.
>>150417325>most of Marvel's well known humans, particularly the human ones,eh?
>>150417930Sorry, I was phonefagging and autocorrect fucked me over.*most of Marvel's well known Villains, particularly the human ones,
>>150417943ok fair enoughWouldn’t Dormammu count for pure evil. Or does Doyle Dormammu somehow disqualify him? If not, I can throw out like half of Doctor Strange’s older rogues gallery and they’d probably qualify as just pure evil.As for humans I guess that’s fair enough, but also probably the point. Why muscle in on DC territory when you can try to add depth instead? etc.Plus I’m sure there are plenty of human examples I’m just forgetting.
>>150417916I think you have failed at reading comprehension. MAJOR VILLAINS. You named off a collection of z list, villains C list at best. If you're whole argument is that DC villains are better because of fucking James Gordon Jr, I think you've already lost.
Enjoy your 5437562347592378th Joker story faggot
>>150417969Dormammu and the aforementioned Mephisto count as cosmic entities in the same vein Trigon and Neron are as their evilness can't necessarily be calculated on a human scale. They are evil because they must be and have to be. That's how I see it.For depth, I mean theres that. But that's likely to be saved for another thread regarding which franchise has deeper or more complex villains. This is focused on the nature of their villainy and how well they live up to their evil reputation based on major and recent representations of them.>>150417981Be that as it may, you misconceded because you thought those major Batman rogues were beyond tragedy or redemption when most of them in reality were essentially broken or victimized people by circumstance. Maxwell Lord summarized this best.Bottom line, each hero or franchise would have AT LEAST one major pure evil villain. The rest can't or won't be able to compare no matter how well you stack them up against the other.
Let's say this. Even if you put Clayface, Poison Ivy, Catwoman, Mr Freeze, and Joker in the same room, it isn't going to make The Joker any less bad when you combine the former four in comparison. If anything, it's going to make the Joker look more evil.It's ipso facto logic that Marvel seems to skimp out on consecutively because they're unable to write a characters moral compass convincingly - let alone properly, because their gravitas and strength of character are usually conflated with an asinine sense of melodrama. Of which Marvel runs laps around DC in in spades.
>>150417325DC sucks and nobody cares about their villians other than Lex and Batman's roguesMarvel has mog them every step of the way since the 60sThat includes the villiansPretty sure that if you go to any top comic villian list it will be stacked by Marvel villians, batman rogues and lexAlso the best comic villians are from marvel (Doom and Magneto)Pure evil villians work for some stories but inherently lack deep
>>150417671>Professor PygToo mentally ill to be considered truly evil. More Richard Chase than Ted Bundy>Carmine FalconeThe guy DC generally treats as a Vito Corleone-like semi-noble figure?
>>150418343>Doom and MagnetoOh fuck, it's one of those retards.
>>150418343>DC sucks and nobody cares about their villians other than Lex and Batman's rogues>Marvel has mog them every step of the way since the 60s>Also the best comic villians are from marvelBy popular opinion and brand recognition no less. But anyone who has spent time browsing this board and actually reading comics would think otherwise as we know that's not the case.Doom and Magneto are the best because their identities pushed the boundaries of the comic medium and because of how willing and often Marvel outsourced them. But that doesnt make them good characters. Or even good villains.Creating a good villain requires a sense of duplicitiousness that not many writers are not willing to upend on their readers expectations. It isn't just about their intentions or goals or whether they're deserving of sympathy or mercy. But how well you can keep the reader guessing whether or not they're going to win.Manga is often a good example of this. Many cases you'll hear people more than not actually rooting for the villain more than the hero not because their interests and goals align with their own. But because they've done their job at convincing the reader that this is what they want and they'll justify the means to get it, no matter what the ends are. DIO, Frieza, Sukuna, etc. Are prominent examples of this writing.The closest superhero comics have gotten to a Manga-like supervillain would either have to be The Fury from Moores run on Captain Britain or Sinestro from anything by Geoff Johns. An absolute unstoppable force who would stop at nothing to achieve their goal.
>>150418343>top comic villian list it will be stacked by Marvel villians, batman rogues and lexThe Marvel side will just be Spider-Man and X-Men villais (+Thanos and Loki if it's post MCU)Super/Bat and Spidey/X rogues dominate those list due to adaptations.
