>I’m nostalgic for piss because at least it wasn’t shit

I can't recall a single redeeming thing about his reign of terror other than Frank Cho on art.

>>150418252
In the way a car crash is interesting

>>150418263
>Avengers Disassembled
>House of M
>Civil War
>World War Hulk
>Secret Invasion
>Dark Reign
>Siege
>Shadowland
>Ed Brubaker's Captain America
>Greg Pak's Hulk
>Matt Fraction's Iron Man
>Peter David's X-Factor
>Bendis Daredevil
>Bendis Ultimate Spider-Man

>>150418465
All shit btw

>>150418465
>we're still suffering the effect of all these shit stories

>>150418252
>but Marvel comics were in a much more interesting place when he was editor in chief than the shit we get now

Fuck off, shill

>>150418465
>>Peter David's X-Factor

This is the only really good one and it pales in comparison to his 90s X-Factor because he also had to work with the inane status quo set up by House of M

>>150418465
Middling bait.

>>150418465
>>Avengers Disassembled
>>House of M
>>Civil War
these where all fucking dogshit dont even pretend, Civil War especially is mostly remembered for its mass marketting and for how cartoonishly evil they made Iron Man
>World War Hulk
Only good book on the list and only works because of how out of character everyones been acting previous to it

>>150418465
The last two aren't bad but /co/ will never admit it.

>>150419273
Bendis Daredevil was shit, anon. Just because you are gay for Bendis doesn’t make it good.

>>150419273
>t.Michael

>>150418252
Cope

>>150418263
Yeah? Piss is way better than shit whats weird about that

>>150418252
Civil War was the turning point. As things went on it just got worse. All those events ruined so many runs.

>>150418465
Civil War and Secret Invasion were fucking messes only carried by memes from the era.

>>150418465
>Avengers Disassembled
>House of M
>Civil War
Pure dogshit, ruined canon permanently

>World War Hulk
>Secret Invasion
>Dark Reign
>Siege
>Shadowland
These are okay but wildly forgettable

>Ed Brubaker's Captain America
>Greg Pak's Hulk
>Matt Fraction's Iron Man
>Peter David's X-Factor
Actually good

>Bendis Daredevil
>Bendis Ultimate Spider-Man
Lmfao

>>150418252
>Civil War character assassinated Tony Stark and he got the fan-nickname of the Eisenfurher due to what a totalitarian psychopath he was acting like, turned Reed Richards from being anti-government legislative overreach regarding the Mutant Registration Act to going full extrajudicial internment with Prison 42 and they deputized supervillain terrorists and serial killers while also thinking it was a good idea to place them in a dimension that worsens one's mental state the longer they inhabit it, had Carol beat the shit out of Julia Carpenter on her front lawn in front of her parents and daughter and imprisoned her in aforementioned hell dimension concentration camp and removed legal custody of said daughter due to her being a criminal and set up OMD.
>Hired Brian Michael Bendis to turn Wanda into an evil overpowered hysterical woman that turned on and murdered several of her teammates in a mental breakdowns over her imaginary kids due to Quesada's corporate mandate to dramatically break up the Avengers for Disassembled.
>He gets commissioned once again to cull off Mutant characters because he and his editors are too lazy and whined about there being "too many Mutants" to keep track of and BMB turns to ol' reliable character assassination/turning Wanda into a living plot device by having her canonically commit genocide on the in-universe minority/ethnic group stand-ins and had her later balk that "Mutants need to stop acting like martyrs" despite several on-screen examples of Mutants dying horrifically due to losing their Mutations in dangerous or otherwise lethal environments and arguably damaged her character more permanently than Disassembled.
>Allowed the Illuminati bullshit to go through that turned the super'heroes' into villains in all but name so badly that the raging misanthrope who constantly threatens to flood/drown the world between trying to cuck his rival is the sole voice of reason.

>>150418252
quesada and the rest of the old guard at marvel can fuck off into retirement and irrelevancy.

they're the reason that the rot is there in the first place. not the blue hairs, DEI hires or whatever you wanna call SJWs now it's quesada and his faggot friends and it always was them.

>>150421492
It started in the 90s as they turned into a commercial merchandise engine looking to sell the company to a bigger fish (Disney)

So interesting we stopped reading.

>Ed Brubaker's Captain America
>Greg Pak's Hulk
>Peter David's X-Factor
>>150418474
>>150418487
you are so full of shit if you're going to claim these are bad. lazy ass contrarian trolls. get back to class

>>150418263
>>150418340
>>150418352
>creation of Marvel Knights
>creation of MAX
>Priest's Black Panther
>Ennis Punisher
>Jenkins Inhumans
>Jenkins Sentry
>Jenkins Spec Spider Man
>Tangled Web
>Gerber Howard the Duck MAX
>Azzarello & Corbin's Banner and Cage
>Charlie Huston's Moon Knight
>Brubaker: Daredevil, Captain America, Iron Fist
>Ellis' Iron Man and Thunderbolts
>Ultimates 1 and 2
>Bruce Jones Hulk
>Pak's Planet Hulk Saga
>Pak's Hercules
>Dr Strange The Oath
>sub Mariner the Depths
>silver surfer requiem
>New X-Men
>PAD's X Factor vol 2
>PAD's Friendly Neighborhood Spider Man
>District X
>X Statix
>Exiles
>Yost & Kyle's Academy X and X Force
>Mike Carey's X Men
>Astonishing X Men
>Avengers the Initiative
>Waid's F4
>Sacasa's Marvel Knights 4
>Morrison's 1 2 3 4
>Unstable Molecules
>Strange Tales MAX
>Supreme Power
>PAD's Captain Marvel
>Agents of Atlas
>1602
>Dark Tower adaptation
>Marvel Adventures Avengers
>Thor: The Mighty Avenger
>Oeming's Beta Ray Bill
>Annihilation saga + GOTG + Nova
>Frank Cho Shanna

>>150418252
Yeah, Quesada saved Marvel and he was the sole reason why it wasn't sold by parts like Perlmutter intended.

>>150420849
>Ultimate Spider-Man bad, while Secret Invasion is "okay"
Ultimate Spider-Man was mostly inoffensive and mediocre (and while this is a very low bar much better than modern Spider-Man)
Far as the early Bendis goes, it's pretty much his best work. Alias was so much worse that it's not even funny how painful it was to read.
Secret Invasion is pure garbage.

>>150418465
The only good crossover event that came out during that time was Annihilation, unsurprisingly missing from your list, you comictuber-parroting faggot.

>>150421641
How about you eat my ass and then gain taste?

>>150421741
almost forgot:
>BKV Runaways
>McKeever's Sentinel
>Tsunami Mystique
>Spider Man Loves Mary Jane
>Kirkman's Marvel Zombies 1 and 2
>Marvel Zombies vs AOD
>Marvel Monster anthology from 2005
>WisdomMAX / Captain Britain and MI 13
>Slott's Spider Man/Human Torch mini

The modern rot started when Disney bought them. The Marvel you grow up with is no more. I don't know why anyone is trying to pretend there was some other turning point

>>150419297
You have nothing to say about it aside from repeating the same dialogue memes.

>>150418252
The one thing I miss from his reign is that there was an attempt at a far-reaching and long term story for the wider universe. There are clear story threads that you can follow from Disassembled all the way to AvX, in a way that hasn’t really been duplicated since. The problem of course was that so many pieces of that long term story were dogshit, but I can at least respect the ambition.

>>150421929
Okay, Bendis

>>150418252
The reason marvel was doing well at that period, was because DC had fucking Damn DilDo and Bob Harras as their EIC and CEO and the fuckers were nuking the sales with no survivors at all, with the only men keeping the brand safe being Morrisson and Johns, and both hated EIC and CEO.

>>150418263
>I’m nostalgic for piss because at least it wasn’t shit
I mean you'd much rather be peed on than shat on, even though it would still suck

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>>150422195
Didio raised sales, at least during the Infinite Crisis years. Comic buyers legitimately wanted more Marvel.

>>150418465
The only good book on this list is PAD's X-Factor and even that got derailed by event nonsense.

>>150422420
Not a Quesada-exclusive complaint, events have been fucking over books since Shooter started the practice in the 80s.

>>150421492
It’s funny because Quesada and Bill Jemas were the Young Turks who said caring about the history of Marvel was fucking gay and retarded. They didn’t care that they were shitting on classic heroes, it sold issues. Nowadays, we can say without a doubt that that era of Marvel has aged like a dead rat in a milk carton in an abandoned car on a hot summer.

>>150422573
I think the Quesada/Jemas era was great though. It got a bit worse after Jemas was fired.

>>150421741
>>150421863
>Priest's Black Panther
>Ennis Punisher
These are the only notable items on your expanded list. At this point, it looks like you're just throwing shit at the wall in the hope that something will stick.

>Pak's Planet Hulk Saga
This was probably very impressive if you'd never read an Edgar Rice Burroughs novel or a Burroughs pastiche before.

>>150422688
You have some rather narrow tastes if those are the only books that grabbed you.

>>150422338
Whats with the drop at the 91-92?

>>150421741
>Jenkins Sentry
>Jenkins Spec Spider Man
>Brubaker: Daredevil, Captain America, Iron Fist
>Ellis' Iron Man
>Ultimates 1
>Pak's Planet Hulk Saga
>sub Mariner the Depths
>silver surfer requiem
>Waid's F4
>Annihilation saga + GOTG + Nova
Didn't think much of these. The only ones I've enjoyed are Ennis Punisher, Unstable Molecules, and Marvel Boy.

>>150422338
Image Comics taking a big bite out of Marvel's market share.
And that big bump of DC's in 1999 is because Jim Lee parted from Image and sold WildStorm to them. Quite a get, though they were only able to get a few good years out of it.

>>150422777
Waste of trips

>>150422777
I said they were the only notable books, anon, which is a different matter from personal tastes. If we're to speak of personal tastes, then some of these books might have appealed to me if they were less derivative. But they weren't, so...

>>150422885
If you're talking about notability then you're just a plain liar. Brubaker's Daredevil and Cap, Ellisbolts, Millar's Ultimates, Pak's Hulk, Morrison's New X-Men, Milligan/Allred's X-Force/X-Statix, Whedon's Astonishing, Annihilation, Kirkman's Zombie books were all very notable.

>>150421741
>Astonishing X Men
Wasn't this the decompressed-to-hell one where every panel was drawn in widescreen format like the guy was doing a movie storyboard instead of a comic?

>>150422918
>all very notable.
At the time, yes. But this isn't the 2000s anymore. The world has moved on and left those books behind.

>>150422918
lol putting Millar, Whedon and Kirkman on the same level as Morrison, Priest and Allred is risible

>>150422960
Then absolutely nothing is notable. Marvel and DC are just squeezing the remaining comic buyers dry, the end is in sight.
>>150423072
The former always sold a lot more comics than the latter regardless of their individual merits.

>>150423299
>The former always sold a lot more comics than the latter regardless of their individual merits.
In the long run, the latter will outsell the former because their individual merits will be the very thing that keeps them fresh. But Millar & co. will simply fade into the background and vanish.

>>150423072
>got filtered by Millar

>>150423458
>got Millared by filter

>>150423475
Bit esoteric

>>150423522
Nonsense for nonsense.

>>150422688
>>150422851
>>150422885
>>150422960
this is just contrarianism. saying "no its all bad" without needing to elaborate. bad faith ad hominems for attention

>>150423611
adding on: its contrarianism because you can't counter with your own examples of "good comics"

you're unwilling or unable to stand name any comic as good because that's not the point of your posts

>>150423611
>>150423634
>actually you bums owe me an essay in exchange for my copy-pasted lists of has-beens
lol no we don't

>>150421747
>Quesada saved Marvel.
Feige was the one who pulled Marvel out of the bankruptcy, not Quesada.

>>150423365
Will they? Astonishing X-Men, Ultimates, and Marvel Zombies are still in print. New X-Men and Black Panther get omnis, the latter possibly because of the popularity burst from the movie. When it was new, Black Panther was one of Marvel's three lowest selling ongoings alongside Spider-Girl and PAD's Captain Marvel. All three good books, but the market was largely indifferent. Meanwhile, despite being a critical darling, Milligan/Allred's X-Force/X-Statix run is out of print, hardly anyone cares anymore. A lot of comic buyers genuinely enjoy slop, always been the case.

>The world has moved on and left those books behind.
>But Millar & co. will simply fade into the background and vanish.
Comments like this are reflective of a /co/ circle hate bubble that does not match reality. I go to youtube and tik tok, they loooove these creators /co/ hates. I also buy collected editions online and notice some books especially Bendis stuff sell out. His omnibuses like Daredevil and New Avengers got reprinted this year and all stock gone within months.

>>150423754
>Will they?
Yes.

>>150423611
I only highlighted the stuff I read and named the stuff I like.

>>150423787
>youtube and tik tok
Ah yes the "I read a dozen books (summaries) this week" sites.

>>150423787
>I go to youtube and tik tok, they loooove these creators /co/ hates.

That's not as good an argument as you think it is

>>150418252
No one ruined Spiderman
Spiderman turned to shit after people realised that somehow there are like 10 different christmas specials and peter somehow hasnt aged a day yet
The fact that these comics will never end and go on forever with nothing ever changing is what ruined comics
Who really gives a shit about anything anymore?
Spiderman had died came back from the dead more times than some dbz characters its impossible to take anything serious anymore

>>150424023
Shill spotted

>>150423787
Tiktok has smoothbrains defending OMD, which leads me to believe this glazing of Quesada-era Marvel recently on here, TikTok, and elsewhere is some kind of desperate push from people desperate to save his and other people's legacies from being thrown to the trash

>>150424023
This never bothered multiple generations of readers for decades. Spider-Man fell apart through a long process of increasing enshittification that started in the early 90s.

>>150421741
>>150418465
>Giant list of things
>All but like 3-4 range from mid to shit

You're making a better case for modern Marvel being an improvement.

>>150423670
more lazy contrarianism

>>150424602
More "I'm important, my lists are important, I demand to be taken seriously".

What is it with 2000s material often gets negative reactions from anons? It's not just /co/, it's videogames, music, TV shows, etc when you say something like "you know, compared to modern stuff, is not that bad" it's always met with disdain and hatred

>>150424389
What great comics is Marvel publishing right now?

>>150424968
It was a gloomy, tryhard era that only looked good at the time because we'd just come out of the 1990s and Marvel artists had suddenly remembered how to draw.

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>>150425080
I liked cartoony late-90s art more than 00s-era dour pseudo-realism, felt we lost something there.

>>150424389
Those are still better than modern Marvel, as bad as they are.

>>150425758
Most of them aren't even bad, just the big events.

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>>150425618
>I liked cartoony late-90s art more than 00s-era dour pseudo-realism, felt we lost something there.
We definitely did lose something, all those mid-late 90's artists (Mike Wieringo, Ed McGuinness, J. Scott Campbell, Joe Maduera, etc) were influenced by 80's superstars like John Byrne, Michael Golden and Art Adams. Then the guys influenced by hyperrealism like Alex Ross started getting work (Bryan Hitch) and that became the flavor-of-the-month.

>>150426244
Hitch was more influenced by Alan Davis than Ross. You can see this in his 90s work all the way into Authority.

Ross has hyperrealism but doesn't structure the panel layouts like widescreen as much as people think.

>>150425618
This isn't too bad.

>>150426244
The stuff in the background is mostly solid, but the Flash in the foreground looks like his back and arms are trying to grow wings made from beach balls.

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>>150422943
>Wasn't this the decompressed-to-hell one where every panel was drawn in widescreen format like the guy was doing a movie storyboard instead of a comic?
Yes and it sucked.

>>150421624
Speak for yourself

>>150426750
I don't have an issue with this example. Perfect execution of a joke/character moment.

People have an issue with "story decompression" because the floppy format of 20ish pages is extremely limiting for visual storytelling.
Artists can't afford to tell to a self contained story in a more engaging way in a single issue because of that tiny page count. So the compromise is a visually engaging story told over multiple issues.
The monthly floppy format is the single biggest thing holding back the American comics industry, both financially and storytelling wise.

>>150426750
Man, John Cassady drew a great Logan. RIP

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When he got in-charge they all stopped being Heroes and became celebrities with powers.

>>150427265
The joke/idea of the pacing is fine, the problem is the wide panels are just wasted space in this case

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>>150427265
>I don't have an issue with this example.
Great news: If you ever wished for a comic where every panel looks like it was drawn by Cyclops, this is the book for you!

>>150427265
>People have an issue with "story decompression" because the floppy format of 20ish pages is extremely limiting for visual storytelling.
>Artists can't afford to tell to a self contained story in a more engaging way in a single issue because of that tiny page count. So the compromise is a visually engaging story told over multiple issues.
>The monthly floppy format is the single biggest thing holding back the American comics industry, both financially and storytelling wise.

Counterpoint: The problem is way less to do with that and more to do with no guidance on how to make a page interesting

I can tell you that in spite of people's insistence that panel to panel storytelling needs to be blandified and decompressed, getting rid of floppies in favor of making more dragged out and bland looking pages won't help shit. Cassaday can do good work, I've seen it in Astonishing X-Men and Planetary, but it's not well-served by bland panels and layouts

"Write it for the trade" ruined comicbook pacing.

>>150418465
You grew up reading these first, no one who loved comic books before those would lather these shit event books

>>150420935
>so badly that the raging misanthrope who constantly threatens to flood/drown the world between trying to cuck his rival is the sole voice of reason
Byrne did a decent job of that in his Namor run but your point is 100% taken here

>>150422573
>it sold issues
They tried to go public
They sold movie rights in perpetuity for lump sum payments
Quesada opened the door for Perlmutter
Marvel Knights is only remembered by people who were impressionable kids at the time
Q established Greg Land's shenanigans

>>150418465
>Siege
This is where I gave up on following the Marvel meta-narrative and switched to exclusively reading self-contained books and reprints of old books.

>>150427860
>Quesada opened the door for Perlmutter

Perlmutter was already in charge of Marvel before Quesada came on board. Unless you meant he opened the door for Perlmutter to sell to Disney?

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>>150418252
Quesada's reign can be summed-up as "The inmates are running the asylum".

>>150427906
I'm wrong is what I mean, thank you for correcting me.

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Opening up any random Marvel comic at that time was like tuning into Jerry Springer.

>>150427930
Ah yes, the Slott years

Wasn't this the era of comics that gave us Captain America getting yelled at by an authorial self-insert because he wasn't keeping up with MySpace posts?

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>>150427941
The Dark Times...

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>>150418252
Atleast he isnt Bendis

>>150418252
I don't call him Joe Quesada I call him Joe Quesadilla

>>150427962
Yes

The funniest thing is how badly that scene aged
Myspace: generally dead
Simpsons: That Civil War comic was published the same year as the Simpsons season that had the "Jazzy and the Pussycats" episode.
Nascar started declining in late 2006
I imagine a few people might remember who won the 2006 World Series, but does anyone remember who won American Idol that year without looking?

Youtube was probably the only reference in there that would actually be relevant today

>>150419273
Ultimate spider-Man was just a rehash of old storylines in slow motion with Bagly's rubber faced art.

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>Nobody can smoke anymore because my Daddy died of lung cancer!
Faggot.

>>150421741
Annihilation is not good. too many cut and paste space ships and bad minis. I like the rest of it okay though.

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>>150427962
Dave Gibbons and Lee Weeks did a fill-in arc during that run that was better than the story Marvel was paying PR for, it's easily one of the best Cap stories of all time.

>>150418252
he's got the bobby kotick phenotype

Planet Hulk has such a downer ending I could never bring myself to read it again.

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>>150428050
Would Quesada want to ban cars from Marvel comics because a childhood friend died in a car accident? He's such a fucking retard. Nick Fury, Wolverine and J. Jonah Jameson need their cigars.

>>150428054
Thanks, this one somehow slipped my notice. Will be adding it to the TBR pile.

>>150421929
The art is also terrible.

>>150428032
>Ultimate spider-Man was just a rehash of old storylines
This will never be true no matter how many times you say it.

>>150428536
Fine, It's like a shitty cover band that hasn't learned all their cords.

>>150418252
Everything that was bad in the Joe Q days is still what's bad about Marvel today. Cebulski and Brevoort are literally in the positions they are because they're Quesada's butt buddies and are continuing his "style" of leadership to this day. Hell, that's why One More Day hasn't been reversed, because they agreed to maintain the status-quos Joe Q wanted.

>>150428555
Until Civil War started kicking up it was outselling Amazing, so it was doing something right for a lot of people.

>>150428691
>it was doing something right
Yeah, playing to the peanut gallery.

>>150428614
>Brevoort
I hope he gets ousted, that way he can't appoint a successor with the same shit taste.

>>150429519
Genuinely the nepotism shit at Marvel has always been worse than at DC. Hell, Stan got where he was because his uncle by marriage was the owner (Martin Goodman). It got even worse when Stan started giving his gofer Roy Thomas all of his writing gigs when Stan starting taking on a more managerial role at the company.

>>150427992
>Ugh let's leave. Brian Michael Baldman thinks he got a W. If we stay any longer we'll hear more Bendisspeak.

>>150427984
Damn somebody needs to edit Stu to look like Slott and edit the no-prize into a Wikia page.

>>150430261
Fucking Slott put into 2 self-inserts and one of them gets cucked.

>>150430370
I assume the one Dan Slott insert cucks the other one? Or is it a completely random other guy that does it so Slott can say, "nuh uh if that was a self-insert why would I do that to myself?"

>>150430506
John Jameson aka Man-Wolf.
Slott quiescently made Jen a dogfucker.

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This was pretty much Marvel's philosophy during his tenure.

>>150423611
>this is just contrarianism. saying "no its all bad" without needing to elaborate.
And yet you ignored the people saying "no this stuff was good" without elaborating. Honestly, no one goes into depth anymore.

>>150430564
I can't explain it, but every time I see a pic of Brevoort , I feel like he's into some kind of really gross niche fetish that would revolt most people. He just gives off these weird, unpleasant vibes.

>>150430646
He's defo a creep, When he was an editor he let the most vilest shit slip by.

>>150430564
If anger sells, why are sales lower as a whole than they were 20 years ago?

>>150430646
Maybe. I get more of the vibe that he's the type of guy that is just totally apathetic and will just sit back while evil shit goes down as long he collects money.
>>150430533
I forget when that was written but looking it up, 2005 or 2006 makes sense. Feels like the cusp of people toning down the 90's/00's sex stuff. Slott still eventually wrote Silk and orher weird sex stuff but he also has a massive ego so him writing his self-insert as a harmless "sweet" guy still fits him.

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>>150430689
>If anger sells, why are sales lower as a whole than they were 20 years ago?
He said this many years ago and Tom is talking about the 00s era primarily, particularly the events and Bendis. In the 10s era this strategy began to unravel. I think Secret Empire was the final straw situation (pic related). You had too many heroes getting replaced by their non-union diversity equivalent (Amadeus Cho Hulk, FemThor, SamCap) as well as the hard push of the diverse young heroes (Young Avengers, Ms Marvel, Miles Morales). Sales tanked around 2017. At one meeting the comic book store owners really had a go at Marvel representatives and VP of Publishing David Gabriel said diversity hurt sales (whilst the EIC unironically made a statement the same day saying the complete opposite). Later Gabriel backtracked his statement. But sales were down at the time in general. Something like Ms Marvel did well being majorly pushed in the young adult book market but most of the sales were the first trade only and there is a lot of caveats to this.

Side note: supposedly the rumour goes the diversity push really started in earnest because Bendis, who was on the MCU creative committee, basically heard which way the wind was blowing on adpatations with Feige wanting to prioritise younger heroes. Essentially younger, cheaper actors on contract. Bendis also got kicked off the creative committee for stealing ideas he used for his Guardians of the Galaxy run.

>whole than they were 20 years ago
That is debatable depending on how you look at figures.

>>150430833
Can you go into more detail with these figures? Considering inflation and the rising costs of comics, I would say they are in a worse spot but I am curious what are the positives now that make it debateable. Is it like digital being around longer and how that could save their asses, now that they might be able to exploit that now more than back then?

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>>150430919
Just a bit of background I think that some of the debates over the state of the industry fall too much into culture wars and perceptions territory rather than numbers. Youtubers are especially guilty of this. Comics have always been a bit of a niche product. Prior to the 1980s relaunch, Batman was selling 75,000 issues a month, which was an all time low. Batman Year One in 1987, the four issue series (#404-407) by Frank Miller sold on average 193,000 per issue, figures which hadn't been seen since the early 1970s. Absolute Batman #1 sold 400,000 issues from 2024 into this year, it had 250,000 in the first print run and several print runs. Of course this isn't a great direct comparison because Absolute Batman #1 was a relaunch with hype but it illustrates my point. The high time of comic sales will always be the 1990s but that featured the speculation, bubble and burst.

If you look at something like the ICv2 figures you see the 2017 fall, more specifically around October in that year which was more dramatic, overall it seems less so, October is whenthat fatigue shit hit the fan and the comic book shop owners let their feelings be heard. But during covid the need for entertainment went up. Periodical format hit a 15-year high in 2024. Some shops in 2024 did report higher market average sales. There hasn't been a massive post covid decimation.

The problem with the figures does comes down to dollar amounts increasing but not necessarily units and that does play into the inflation/cost area, higher prices not more raw sales. It is hard to tell how much the market has grown, if at all. And some shops figures can't be decoupled from other things they sell as well, which leads us to issues because of stuff like manga. It is kind of a fucking mess trying to obtain clear sales data as well. Youtubers would have you believe it is over and sure, some individual shops will be feeling the pinch, probably due to other variables involved in the business too

>>150431159
You're retarded and posting nonsense.

>>150431193
Nope.

>>150423787
The average comics fan is not the same as the average /co/ntrarian. If you listen to people here in this distilled online bubble, you'd probably think they hate every single thing. Heck, a significant amount of people here have never read comics and are just outrage tourists.

>>150431651
Slow down there Anthony Gramuglia, The average comics fan is a brain dead hylic that has no opinions of their own. Most of them are just consumers like Near Mint Condition.

>>150431651
>Heck, a significant amount of people here have never read comics and are just outrage tourists.
That's clear from all the posts that just parrot "EVERYTHING'S SHIT AND WOKE!" like they're in Thinking Critical's YouTube comment section, it's clear they aren't actually follow any books and just have an IV drip of negativity being fed into them.

>>150431677
What comics do you actually like, anon?

>>150431687
Old ones before Gen-Xers ruined everything.
Turok
Conan
Judge Dredd
Star Wars
TMNT.

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NOT Propaganda.

>>150431703
Hylic taste.

>>150431677
>The average comics fan is a brain dead hylic that has no opinions of their own. Most of them are just consumers like Near Mint Condition.
I agree, what, did you think my post was defending the average comics fan?
>>150431681
There is a big reason why this board often refuses to go into any depth about opinions because most people haven't read the thing in question to go into any depth about them.

>>150431717
The problem with comics is more dumb shit than propaganda. I mean people still bitch about that America Chavez comic from years ago. The amount of shitty propaganda like in your pic is not that much. The problem is more just general bad art/writing.

>>150431737
Sorry I'm not "educated" enough for Gail Simone.

>>150431737
Yeah not a single Maus, Superman Smashes the Klan or Ice Cream Man.
Not cool.

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>>150431753
>The problem is more just general bad art/writing.
Exactly, I picked up Wolverine: Revenge as it was coming out because I just wanted a fun Wolverine adventure. While there was nothing "woke" in it, it was just joyless and shitty.

Now another problem is that most comics are just a 3rd eating scenes.
Looking at you Rowell She-Hulk.

>>150431785
>it was just joyless and shitty.
That's what the average book is now like. No one wants to pay expensive prices for a book like that when for the same price you could pay for a streaming service or just watch content online for free.

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Not "woke".
>Lol first page is of le noble savages.

>>150431868
What's woke about that? Savage Land natives have been presented as "noble savages" for literally decades, newfag

>>150431882
He's another outrage tourist who doesn't even know what the savage land is.

>>150431882
>for literally decades
Pretty much going back to their first appearance in X-Men with Kazar in the 60s.

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Funny how things change.

>>150431936
There is like 40 different tribes/groups in then Savage Land

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"The industry is fine guys I swear!"
>The industry.

>>150431950
No one said it was fine but no one said it was over.

>>150431951
Plenty of people are saying it is over.

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The 90's: Silly oversized guns, shoulder pads & pouches, Lots of pouches!

The 00's: Terrorism & Rape.

>>150431754
>Gail Simone
Hylic.
>>150431778
>Superman Smashes the Klan or Ice Cream Man
Hylic.

>>150431960
Plenty of drama grifters and their shills are saying it is over.

>>150419273
They hated him because he spoke the truth.

Bendis can't write stuff with any real level of scope (Avengers, events, Superman, etc), but two decades ago if you gave him a street level characters and let him play with them in a context where he didn't have to worry about continuity (because heaven forbid he's aware of anybody else's work) then he'd be able to put out good stuff.

Powers, his creator owned book, was good too. The problem is that the handful of titles he wrote well pale in comparison to the number of turds he's put out since those early days and retards can't handle that a broken clock was right twice in one day.

>>150432007
Polly want a cracker?

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Obligatory

>>150431703
So you were never into super heroes then? if so i guess you come into these threads to bash cape comics for shits and giggles

>>150432043
How is me shitting on creators I don't like equal me hating superhero comics?

>>150432017
Most creators in the Bendis category seem to have a few good earlier books then big shit in the middle that pissed people off before becoming full parody of themselves. Then people retroactively say they were always shit.

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>>150432009
>Plenty of drama grifters and their shills are saying it is over.
Hilariously the grifters are now performing mental gymnastics to explain why DC's Absolute line is ACTCHSUALLY bad for DC!
>The Absolute Line being a success for DC is...le bad!

>>150432065
Absolute Superman may aswell be a Linkin Park AMV in comic form.
Absolute Batman is Fucktarded.
& Absolute Wonder Woman is just DnD in a teacup of menstrual blood.

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He really did snuffout all the soul & verisimilitude in the company.

>>150432078
Yes, and?

>>150432078
Everything is bad, you don't like anything, I know. Why come on /co/ and say the same thing week in, week out. It can't be cathartic to moan about everything all the time.

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>>150432128
Marvel's soul really died when they dropped the corner boxes, didn't it?

>>150432233
>"Oh you hate everything."
Thanks Mom.
Supergirl was good until the troon got lazy & got fillin artist.

>>150432244
When they switched over to porno slick paper.

>>150432251
That was in the Quesada years, right? I have some issues from the very early 00's that are still not published on slick paper.

>>150432259
I think so? wasn't that around 00?

>>150432244
Why did they drop them, anyway?

>>150418252
>el quesadazo
He ruined Marvel comics as a whole.

>>150418465
>Avengers Disassembled
>Civil War
>Siege
>Shadowland

if you think any of these 4 are good, you don't belong here

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>>150431785
>>150431846
That's just Hickman. Guy's been writing for well over a decade, being a cold blowhard is all he's about.

>>150434443
So he's Michael Crichton but lame?

>>150434463
And Grant Morrison without the warmth, yes.

>>150431785

Revenge was shit because it was a story plotted around the scenes and characters Capullo wanted to draw, with how awful and stale his art looks brought to the fore without his usual DC colourist.

Hickman's overrated and sucks at character work, but Alan Moore couldn't have saved that comic.

>>150421863
>>150421741
>>150421641
>>150418465
People are giving you shit but look at modern Marvel and the amount of X-Menslop and nostalgiaslop is absolutely off the charts. Akira Yoshida is time to fuck off.

>>150434521
Plascencia did the first three issues and the first page of issue 4 before the schedule became too much.

>>150434619
>X-Menslop and nostalgiaslop under an editorial that barely understands why they were popular or how to market to the intended audience

woooow what an accomplishment

>>150418252
JMS ruined spiderman. the worst writer to ever touch the property that has written majority of the worst comics ever, not just spiderman, but all comics from omd to norman fucking gwen to twins with norman to 9/11 trash and all the totem garbage.

>>150418252
Ennis has gone on record saying he'd drop everything to write Frank again yet they still won't reach out to him to write a new book, Quesada would have. Get Fury doesn't count since that was in the works pre COVID. Look at how shit they are at keeping MAX in print now, in the late 10s you could buy all of it easily.

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>>150435618
Event-driven crossover comics ruined Spider-Man. Maximum Carnage, the clone saga and all its mini-events where to follow one story you had to pick up all four (sometimes five) Spider-Man titles in a month, Identity Crisis, The Gathering of the Five and the Byrne reboot. JMS's run had its flaws and really bad arcs, and it was still something of an improvement over the previous decade of Amazing Spider-Man. He was just yet another contributor to a decline that had already started.

>>150418252
Should have stuck to drawing. He was good at that.

>>150427385
Didn't John Byrne at some point said that he was going to make a "widescreen comic done right"? Did he ended up releasing it or not?

>>150418465
>Secret Invasion
>Dark Reign
I didn't hate these

>>150437214
He's probably too busy sticking speech balloons onto Star Trek TOS screenshots.

>>150418252
fat face

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>>150435847
>>150435847
>Event-driven crossover comics ruined Spider-Man.
Events just generally killed comics.

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>>150440237

>>150431960
Like who?

>>150441320
People in this thread, people on Youtube, culture warriors, some creators, some shop owners. It is this constant "sky is falling". One day they might be right but that's a "broken clock is right twice a day" thing.

>>150430833
>Side note: supposedly the rumour goes the diversity push really started in earnest because Bendis, who was on the MCU creative committee, basically heard which way the wind was blowing on adpatations with Feige wanting to prioritise younger heroes. Essentially younger, cheaper actors on contract.

This is believable because they knew RDJ was gonna cost a lot to do more subsequent movies; in fact someone (I think Perlmutter) wanted it to be Captain America vs Hulk instead because it would be cheaper than getting RDJ back to do Cap vs Iron Man. Feige may have been all-in in getting RDJ for Civil War but he likely also knew this wasn't gonna be sustainable in the long-term. It would explain why he still went ahead with using Ironheart instead of avoiding using the character after all the controversy over her in the comics

>>150418252
He treated his tenure at Marvel much like a spoiled brat treats his new toys

>>150420774
Arrest