Modern and so called "independent" cartoons are indistinguishable from slop. In the design and most of all in the writing. There is no ta single moment when any of it's characters feels human. Knights of the Guineverse is the most blatant example of it. Is like their creator have never ever interacted with real human beings before. They only have had deep connections with anime characters and failed to realize what make them special. They have made a copy of a copy with no soul in it.
I mean, it just blends with AI slop so naturally
>>150524907Fashion feminist like Dana are incapable of writing good stories
>>150524907>>150525035I'M GONNA FUCKIN CUM
Slop is better than this actually
>>150524907I know this is bait but I'm curious, how do humans actually act? And what makes those anime characters special in the first place?
>>150524907The problem is that these people do the exact same thing to try to be subversive, showing how creatively swallow they are.
She has android guts, does that mean she can robo-brap?
>>150525779Yes but they call it exhaust
>>150524907The show that mindbroke /co/
>>150525583Stfu troon
>>150525657>how do humans actually act?Kek, this is why slop like toh is popular with zoomers
>>150524907>indistinguishable from slop.This is code for>theyre giving people what they want and that makes me mad
>>150525960People with low intelligence and bad taste love slop. Thanks for proving that point
>>150524907>There is no ta single moment when any of it's characters feels humanThe reason is autistic people trying to act neruotypical. And acting teachers.I forget the guys name but there is an acting coach that a lot people name drop who kind of figured out how important position and status were to neurotypicals. See, he had a whole class of people that really couldnt act when asked to improv and write their own dialog. It came off as very direct and wooden. At some point he figured out that the students had removed social rank from the dialog they were writing. The characters would always interact as equals. So he got them to start incorporate social status into the dialog. One person would be cooler, smarter, more money, less money, etc. And they would write dialog around the edges of that without commenting directly on the difference in status. After that the dialog and acting appeared more natural. One thing about autistics is they dont really care about social rankings, dominance hierarchies, etc ad much as nerutypicals. Some cant even see differences in status and end up looking like assholes or stupid. They do feel bullying and meaness though.So when they attempt to write dialog it often comes off as a lot of mean spirited dunks and insults. If you really let them write the dialog they like and understand it would just be something like an 80s cartoon where the characters are nice to each other and they solve some sort of problem. Heros and villains would be clearly outlined.Modern dialog feels unnatural because the dorks writing it dont like to communicate like normal people and come off as mean and weird when they try
>>150525931based brownchad
>>150526065I don't think is as much any inability to actually be normal. I'll say they act normal all the time. It's more about what they consider special and clever writing and dialogue. They want all the cool and moving lines to be in there but with out the appropriate build up to arrive there make it work. It's just slightly less cringe and stupid than the Acolyte
>>150525931You didn't answer my question; I wanted to know how YOU YOURSELF believe humans act.>>150525989>Anything I don't like is slopTrust me if they gave you exactly what you wanted, you'd call it slop because it's so predictable
>>150526138Stfu fag
>>150526313Autistic people are cringe when they try to say all the cool thingsMaybe the characters are just autistic
>>150526313It’s also not knowing how to use dialogue as a storytelling device to convey information purposefully and treating it like it’s just people quipping
>>150525657This is a start here. >>150526065 I probably wouldn't have thought to describe it like that anon did, but that actually describes a lot of the problems with modern writing pretty well. Beyond the autism explanation, think in terms of fan fiction writing. So lets take Harry Potter or even Miraculous Ladybug as an example, ensemble casts, and for your fan fiction you want everyone to interact with all complete pieces of information, because that's cool as fuck you can do a lot with that. That type of writing will elevate your story above just heroes journey standard arc shit if you can pull it off, but modern writers are struggling to pull this off (because its a new way of writing basically). You want Draco in Harry's social circle with Hermione and Ron among other characters. You want Harry to understand Snape as of the events of book 1. So you do that. For miraculous you want Marinette to interact with Chloe her bully as an equal brought together through the miraculous. Then you have characters with polar opposite personalities in groups together. It's fun. Also just as a general thing you want competent adult characters. I notice this a lot in fan fiction. They'll give the kid characters actual adults to have conversations with, the adults will act as genuine mentors, which is something media doesn't do a lot. The problem is when you're not writing fanfiction. You now have a world that isn't set up properly. You have to set it up (which takes time, but you can't take too long, or the writing is just the generic variety you're trying to avoid), and somehow make it make sense to shove all those characters together quickly (they're all opposites with nothing in common, so you have to justify them interacting). When you take an existing story that stuff is already set up, you're building off the original media basis.
>>150524907>This bozo motherfucker writing that with an erection
Is this yet another hate thread by the same guy who kept obsessively complaining about the show and team before it was even released? OP even sounds like an autistic villain monologue.
>>150525916>>150527055Gtfo toon sperg
Zoomers got thior IQ lowered by social media just like boomer with lead in the iar
>>150527173>just people quippingProbably the worst thing big bang theory and the mcu did to nerd spaces. Its like jesus, learn to balance it out. Star trek and star wars had some little quips but it wasnt balls to the wall nonstop
>>150527197I have no fucking idea what you just said. I can understand autistic writers writing like a cartoon because they grew up with that more than real life, but I never got that impression with Knights of Guinevere. Everyone felt human enough to me. Aside from the excessive swearing, it felt very natural. I didn't get the impression that the characters were just like existing anime characters, I got the impression that Andi is always tired because she works a lot while Frankie is always working because she's motivated to become the best. These seem like general traits that any character can have regardless of where these trains come from.
>>150528242And it feels the same way with zoomer slop like toh, tadc and kog. SU universe did terrible damage to the animation medium by being all about muh angst and trauma. They all feel so fucking insincere. How lack of self awareness you have to be not to realize you are producing the same plastic, artificial and derivative stories but with a progressive coat of flavor
>>150524907Anon, I love you, but I'm going to also beat you to death.
I see schizofrogposter found Dana's new show.
>Zoomers got thior IQ lowered by social media just like boomer with lead in the iar
>>150528371 Maybe I just have a high standard of what a well written character should be to make me fell its a real person. But this show is so incredible mid. The "cool" setting and atmosphere just can hide how low effort it's characters are. They want to push this archetype of a strong, independent and uncomprehended women so hard. But it just doesn't click. It feels like Taylor Swift singing about love. You just don't buy it
>>150528575You can just say you're not into it. I'm into this archetype. You're talking like it is OBJECTIVELY bad and doesn't work when that isn't it.But tell me what, makes a character "high effort"?
>>150528371> I got the impression that Andi is always tired because she works a lot while Frankie is always working because she's motivated to become the best.Thats exactly the flat archetypal characterization that people in this thread are saying is insufficient. Good fiction is supposed to have realistic, deep, complex characters. You need to flesh out their identities with organic dialogue and realistic scenarios. Its not enough to just say they work hard or they don't like their boss. They need to be based on real life experiences, actual human beings. If you've never had intimate relationships with people in real life it will be impossible to explain this to you. The characters in these shows are just recycled archetypes from other shows. Like another anon said, they are copies of copies of copies.
>>150528607It's objectively bad. Cause it just feels like a roasty screaming "Take that (Disney/men/society) for looking down on me!" The same way Hirsch rich people bad jokes felt. They are not giving a message of solving inequality or creating a more comprehensive compassionate world. They are just salty they didn't have enough privilege in their youth and want you to feel sympathy for them "Guys it was so hard you have no idea" When they have never faced real hardships. Not to say that I have. But they have they heads so up their assess that they actually believe their personal grievances when they didn't got exactly what they wanted is material worth of story telling. That's why their writing feel so hollow
>>150528371>These seem like general traits that any character can have regardless of where these trains come from.>>150528741>Thats exactly the flat archetypal characterization that people in this thread are saying is insufficient. Their visual designs communicate the same information as their dialogue. A well-rounded character will surprise you with points of contrast and contradictory choices and emotions that can’t be predicted until you see them in a unique interaction, like real people. This is a pilot, it’s not a cardinal sin to introduce characters in such a straightforward way so the audience has the idea. Cartoons use archetype to get the point across quickly. They won’t feel grounded until they express a personal point of view in a new way that doesn’t belong to the world of anime cartoons.
>>150528747I didn't get that impressionI got the impression that Disney is corrupt sure, but also they gave so many people opportunities and so many children childhood memories. Andi represents the side who hates Disney whole Frankie represents the side who wants to be a part of Disney to move on up. I genuinely did I expect this pilot to be this nuanced about Disney and I really appreciate it for it. I'm sorry that I like something that is "OBJECTIVELY BAD" I guess that means I believe the Earth is flat.Speaking of flat>>150528741I've had relationships with real life people, I don't understand how a woman who got fired from her job isn't something real life people go through. What is Andi supposed to be a copy of anyway? Reagan from Inside Job? Rusty Venture? Well shit, I guess? I still don't see how it's bad.>>150528915This post summarizes it pretty well. I was also surprised with how much the pilot didn't cram so much shit into one episode like most pilots, it left everything up in the air to theory craft and so much space for the rest of the show to do more with this idea.
>>150528988>I don't understand how a woman who got fired from her job isn't something real life people go throughThats too simple, its not enough. Also, as I said, its the dialogue and the character's reactions to that generic event that provide depth. The dialogue in these shows is always generic and infantile. >>150528915>Their visual designs communicate the same information as their dialogueJust say you don't care for dialogue
>>150529100>Just say you don't care for dialogueExplain what you mean? I’m saying it’s flat because their acting doesn’t add anything new yet, the design and dialogue make redundant choices.
>>150529100Okay then HOW can I give a character depth? What traits should I give them to make them super deep or something?
>>150529175Making them other thing than an entitled, annoying lesbian would be a start
>>150529175Its not about traits or visual design for what its worth. I feel like the answer to your question has already been explained in this thread
>>150525151Go do something productive better, this is coming out of good faith lad.
>>150524907I want to fuck gwen so much oh god
>>150525916The show is for troons. Its pure trend-chasing.
>>150526065Now the only hard part is justifying why someone would be dumb enough to talk up/down at some random person in the first place. Shit's useless, no matter how much charisma you think you have.
So what did we learn in this thread? That most people in the US and rest of the Western world are so locked up in their homes and deprived of human interactions without any challenges and uncomfortable situations where they can learn things and gain life experience and then translate that to cartoons. You know once stories were written in a way that actual life experience was passed on through them and lessons could be learned and so on and so forth. Its not like i have any great life experience, but this is the takeaway of this thread and i believe its correct all in all.
>>150529984I believe your self-pity is a more accurate description of the problem than anything you wrote.
You can tell this show was written by an unbearable feminist when half the women look like Agatha Trunchbull
>>150529957See this is what I'm sayin. If you had any familiarity with people or good art, you'd know it feels amazing to use your power to fuck with people below you. Sometimes it even feels good to be below someone on the hierarchy. You're talking like an alien!
>>150530079>ignores the other halfGlass half empty?
>>150530101There should be 1 or 2 trunchbulls max otherwise its troonslop
>>150525035>ai slop
>>150529414But they're not lesbiansAndi I can get feeling entitled because she just got fired and she's mad at the world, but Frankie? Sure she wants to fix the Gwen to show her worth, but they did make a deal with her boss, a compromise. You know, that thing you think lesbians hate.>>150529810It hasn't. As for worth? What do you mean? Worth by your standards? Because if that's it then that means you're just not into the story. That's fine
>>150530533>But they're not lesbiansKek, you can't srly believe that
>>150530349Yeah, imagine the possibilities
>>150530604Yes, yes I doEven if they were lesbians, people can draw them having hot lesbian sex
>>150530533Its an expression anon. >The phrase "for what it's worth" introduces information or an opinion that the speaker believes may not be particularly valuable or useful but is offered anyway, often to show humility or to provide a perspective without claiming authority. It's like saying, "I'm not sure how helpful this will be, but here it is".
>>150530697imagine you jumping off a bridge.>Long way down...
>They are totally not lesbians or trannies. HA! As if Dana was capable of not pandering to that demographic
>>150525035More please.
>>150530880Yeah good one, maybe a toothache will be enough for you.
>>150530944At this point is as if you're begging to see it
>>150524907Is this whole thing just Dana overloading on Dykeshitnand other faggotry because Disney told her to tone it down a little bit when she was writing a kids show?
>>150530084Lol
>>150531336Hot lesbian sex>>150531381Not even, the pilot has no gay shit, it's a usual cyberpunk story about low class citizens getting by
People are being so hard on this. This was probably one of the better pilots in a while. Like >>150528371 said, everybody is trying so hard to force that the characters feel unnatural, but they are pretty realistic for the most part in how they act. Using Miraculous Ladybug and anime of all things where the writing is equally bad if not worse is also just nonsense to start another thread war. People like Dana's new show for the most part and there's not really a lot wrong with it. Get over it OP.
>>150531599It's mid for children standers. It's a joke next to actual mature animation like common side effects or Pantheon. If you are an adult and think this is actually good at being edgy and dark. You are a manchild
>>150524907Who caresPost more big titty robot bimbo
>>150532133Since it's about the only thing worth in Dana's work
>>150531381>this whole thing is just Dana overloading on Dykeshitnand other faggotry Pretty much this. The pilot does a pathetic number for a first impression. KoG is a total embarrassing flop.
>>150532576>>150525035>>150524907How the hell did the AI get the hair right?? It's so unique
>>150533354That's kind of ai's job
>>150524907I make slop A lot of itIt doesn't compare to thisBe a faggot elsewhere
>>150528575>Maybe I just have a high standard of what a well written character should be to make me fell its a real personMaybe you shouldn't be watching cartoons
>>150533625That's literally AI slop
>>150524907>Add an @username to an AI imageDo these people really?
i was trying to decide what was worse, the writing or the voice actingmaybe the voice directing
>>150524907
>>150524907>>150525035>>150532576How long before a Gwen love doll is available followed by a full-on robot?
>>150536045They certainly exist in that universe, or some creep is hoping to get his hands on the real deal.
>>150535911If your slop is better than the rest I guess you can
>>150526313I also feel like a lot of writers try to write part of their dialogue to become a meme which usuallly makes it unnatural.
>>150524907Dykena Terrace made Knight of Trannyvere, it's the same faggot hack who made the worst Disney series of all time, The Owl House. Most of the reception that I see on Knights of Trannyvere everywhere is very negative. The Prodz drama has completely shattered the image of this dead-on-arrival slop. Disney really dodges the bullet there for firing this obnoxious, talentless retard. Shitty fake anime art style. Ugly characters. Terrible writing. Shitty world-building. All around KoG and Owl House are the two sides of the same dogshit coin.
>>150526065This reminds me that famous quote from the George Orwell.>If you want a vision of what writing will look like in the future. imagine Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, forever.
>didn't watch the pilot award goes to.....me!
>>150524907I do agree with the dialouge doesn't feel natural, it tries too hard to be anime-esque with the characters being overly emotional all the time. One of the reason why I don't like anime that much beyond cool fights and it's visuals
>>150529861This show is the Overwatch 2 of /co/It'll only be remembered for the porn.
>>150535983What's wrong with Hot men of /co/?
>>150533354You give it samples and it gives you the same. Anon probably went through hundreds of images before he found one that gave him an election
>>150537698To anime there is a cultural aspect cause that's how characters behave in Japanese media since I don't know when. It's nonsensical trying to bring that over to western media. Just look at ATLA, that's how you you make a good anime inspired story
I thought the animation was gorgeous (we'll see how they hold up after the pilot, a lot of shows tend to drop off) but the dialogue was so fucking cringe that I couldn't finish the episode
>>150524907>>150525035>>150532576I did not think this character was sexy but now I do. Thanks.
>>150537850People should write in the style that they want, i'm just noticing all lot of modern western animated media has that quirky overly emotional anime slop writing. At this point, characters that can have a normal relaxed conversation with each other would be refreshing
>>150524907>Digital coloring......le BADTake your meds guy
>>150527197Anon this is complete bullshit. Every word more specious than the last.You don't know what autism is, you don't know how writing dialogue works, and you're starting with a false conclusion and working backwards instead of using any kind of actual rational thought.
>>150537850Japanese people are very emotionally repressed, they don't want to speak up their true feelings because it's seen as rude and disrespectful. So that's why anime characters lash out their feelings so much but we don't have that problem here in the west so it's just looks like the characters act like manchildren
>>150528575You don't have high standards, you have a tone requirement that lighter media doesn't meet. Learn the difference between preference and quality.
>>150524907What is this and why does this board seem to despise it
>>150528741>You can't have a cartoon character be a readily-understood archetype, that's bad writing!Actually it's very good writing. This isn't a fucking character study.
>>150538226>I'm noticing that cartoons are written like cartoons and not prestige dramasWow what an observation you are so smart
>>150538302Most cartoons i've seen has characters that can act relaxed and calm while being able to express and react when needed
>>150538302When any media don't have that level of good writing it doesn't have any business trying to do social or existential commentary like this how tries to do. In a very preachy and annoying way than only dumb women that believe themselves smart can do
>>150538327>Like this how tries to do Yeah nah I'm gonna skip the writing advice from you, thanks.
>>150538295>Actually it's very good writingEh, no, that’s shallow 101 writing. But it’s fine for what it is
>>150529984>most people in the US and rest of the Western worldJust the ones who make cartoons. And live action, and media in general.
>>150538372>It's writing that adheres to the basic requirements of writingYes, like I said, good writing.The character is simple to understand and conveyed quickly and effectively. That is good writing. If you disagree because you confuse complexity (or rather, opacity) with "good writing" you're simply wrong.
>>150538484It’s a difference of opinion. I don’t consider the bare minimum good. You’re entitled to yours.
>>150538554>It's a difference of opinionNo, not really. It's a difference in semantics.Your choice of words is poor and hyperbolic
>>150538568You went from it’s very good to it does the job and that makes it good in one reply, I got nothing else to add here.
>>150538589Anon, doing its job effectively is what defines good writing.You are being very silly.Expand your vocabulary so you can express an opinion beyond "it bad me no like"
>>150538603>Making MCs archetypes>Actually it's very good writing.>Eh, I wouldn’t go that far.>But it gets the job done!Reading comprehension, not vocab lol.
We need to make all media to specifically cater to the gentleman's view
>>150538749>Reading comprehensionunironically no u
>>150539518Vocab lesson: Effective communication and very good writing are not the same thing.
>>150539552>Effective communication and very good writing are not the same thing.
>>150539564Lost cause then, I tried
>>150539552Effective writing literally requires the ability to communicate your ideas, and it's often the character's job to do that.
>>150525960Based Skibidi Chad
>>150539629You really didn't, you just kind of whined like a child about being dressed down for poor word choice instead of even trying to express yourself and then horribly failed to flip the argument.It's ok, you're probably like 15. No one expects you to be a good critic.
>>150539672Effective writing doesn't just require the ability to communicate, that is its definition. Writing IS communication, not just of words and ideas but of emotions.but again, this is all semantics. Anon doesn't actually literally mean what they wrote, they just lack the words or introspection to properly express themselves. Based on the other things they've said what they're trying to say is that they only like extremely dense and realistic character studies, but they're dumb so they just go "simple characters are bad"
>>150539672Just distinguishing between “it effectively gets the idea of the character across to construct them from a combination of archetypes” and “it’s VERY good writing to employ two-dimensional archetypes as your main characters”. I actually like KoG and find the character introductions perfectly enjoyable, I only disagreed with the use of hyperbole. But I should have expected that to trigger a barrage of defensive potshots instead of more writing discussion.
>>150539816It's hilarious that you're still trying to pretend like you gave a cogent and valuable opinion and didn't just go "nah its shallow" with no supporting argumentation and then proceed to metaphorically shit yourself by embarrassingly trying to narrowly redefine "good writing" instead of making an argument.It makes me wonder who you're trying to convince: us or you?
>>150524907never seen this beforei shall call it the "Prince of Ball-Hair"
>>150539816>>150539847>I object to the extreme hyperbole!>look for extreme hyperbole>it's the word "very"
>>150537611>picLol, she cheats on him too/
>>150537611Oblivion has that weird quirky anime feeling if you think about it.
>>150530020You sound way too upset anon, does it really bother you people don't like the new cartoon?
Post more Gwen
