Let's put this in perspective
Almost every 20 something on comic twitter and comic TikTok prefers the stuff that came before New 52 and view the era itself as an awkward time for DC

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I have fond memories of it because looking back it was the era I was most into comics - buying new floppies, digging through crates, hoarding from the win-o, reading/posting storytimes, being autistic about solicitations and shit. Of course, it's not like the New 52 was that big a part of my fandom at the time, it's just sortof a mental landmark I guess.
There were some very good titles, some very bad ones that were at least funny (Green Team, The Movement), and of course a lot of basically-forgettable stuff.
Good or bad - I don't know. I guess it wasn't as big of a disaster as Marvel Now, at least.

>>150545672
For the business it was good since it kept them from getting shut down during WB’s restructuring. For canon it was a mess that DC still hasn’t recovered from. For readers I think the first couple months were kind of exciting before the hard realization set in that editorial genuinely had no idea what they were doing
>hurrhurr we knew that from the start
Yeah, us terminally online nerds knew from the start but I meant the innocent comic reader could tell from the comic themselves that the ship didn’t have a captain

It's the worst thing either of the big two have ever done by a massive margin.

>>150545672
I have a soft spot for the new 52 since around that time was when i was getting into comics, but honestly you can tell DC had no plan on what to do and only rebooted to boost sales so they wouldn't get restructured/face WB wraith. So I guess from a short term business wise sense yes, but from a story wise/long term sense no even if we did get some good comics from it.

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>>150545672
It gave us proto-MAWS supergirl

the flash comics of that era are so good

>>150545672
There was a certain immediate hype that ultimately ended up not sticking. Short term gains but long term damage. God I can't believe it's already been a decade and a half though

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>>150545672
There's an argument to be made that this was worse

>>150546892
Which was this one cause there were like three Marvel Nows

I don't understand this stupid decision by Marvel to keep reusing names. Do they not understand it creates brand confusion?

>>150546908
Mid 2010s Marvel Now! the one that birthed Waid Daredevil and the countless legacy heroes, most of which are forgotten now

>>150546924
Waid started Daredevil around 2011, mid-2010s was the relaunch one where he moved Daredevil to San Francisco

>>150546988
The portion with I'm Not Daredevil is what I'm talking about

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>>150545672

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>>150546892

>>150546892
>>150546924
And? NOW! didn't do anywhere near as much damage as the new52. Fuck man, I think the only books that were able to get better/maintain quality were Aquaman and Animalman. I know Flash had fans, but fuck the new and improved Reverse Flash they tried to push. Green Lantern had to deal with Relic, and For as good as Action Comics was, the first arc was rough, and all other Superman comics were.... Well, there's a reason we don't talk about H'el. Reading Green Arrow felt like I was having a stroke, and it's for the best everything involving the Doom Patrol has been nuked out of continuity. And let's not forget, everything building up to the Darkseid War where it was just the writer's fetish about Darkseid's secret daughter wanting to shove Darkseid up her vagina so she could give birth to him herself as some weird revenge plan. Fucking hell, the Anti-monitor had it even worse than Darkseid.....

>>150545672
Great idea, terrible execution.
It could've become a net positive for DC if it wasn't such a mess.

>>150546892
Not even remotely.

>>150547154
mainly this. Ultimately, Didio's editorial team and their style of creative bullpen were not capable of holding things up.

Short term gains led to long term damage.
I'd say right now, there's no "shock to the system" level of fuck ups like there were during the Didio years but those years led to the current state of anemia.

Like it or not, but Snyder's Absolute U is the correct way to approach this gimmick --- from a sustainable business mindset.

They went all in on the New 52 hype back in the day, they even had national commercials during the Walking Dead on AMC! Imagine if they put all that marketing coordination to build up business for comic shops into an actually-good line of comics!

The best books didn't need the reboot to exist. Azz and Chiang's WW could have been a Vertigo or Elseworlds.

The overwhelming majority of the output was Top Cow reject slop led by Bob Harras. Waste of paper that just takes up space in a landfill, no re-read value. It was junk.

>>150547267
What a lot of people in the industry don't understand is that it takes a long time to gain good rep/customer trust and if you lose it it's very hard to get it back.

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>>150545672
Short term, it brought in a bunch of money and some of the individual books were pretty good even.
Long term, it ruined everything. Well Didio ruined everything, but Nu52 was the tool he used.

What Nu52 did was make everything in DC one meaningless elseworld where things don't have to fit together anymore. And it's been decaying ever since, people reading but unconsciously aware none of it "counts". Until they stopped caring.

It's weird that they rebooted everything except batman.

>>150547495
This was the major failing

Everything got restarted except Green Lantern (because one of the main guys behind the relaunch didn't want to wipe out HIS work) and Batman, because they were afraid

So you end up with a worse situation where everyone has been around for five years worth of adventures except Hal and Bruce, who have somehow managed to have 25 years of villains and sidekicks/partners/children compressed into 5

>>150547495
>>150547611
Nu52 wouldn't have been any clearer even if it was a complete reboot because it wasn't planned. There was no great big cohesive blueprint for how the new world would be built. Everyone was just told to do something crazy and extreme that grabs attention. So none of it fits together properly.

>>150547439
>unconsciously aware none of it "counts".

The canon is what you make of it. The good stories are still there, unchanged and unharmed.

>>150547495
>>150547611
Don't forget Moore's Swampthing was also somehow cannon the N52 Swampthing.

>>150545672
I’ve seen others parrot my remark and it makes me proud but the best way to put it is:

It’s the New Coke of comics.

Only because comic companies are run by egotistical, delusional cunts it took them much longer to finally bring back their version of coke classic. only they never really did and just sorta mixed 1 part classic and 1 part new coke and called it a day.

>>150547439
>Well Didio ruined everything, but Nu52 was the tool he used
I will not rest until I stop seeing people blame him.

Warner installed Jim less as their yes man and then installed Diane Nelson who basically told Lee (their yes man) and didio that they were going to have a major shake up or DC would be stripped and sold/licensed for parts.

To blame it all on didio isnt just revisionist it’s flat out incorrect. And believe me, Im not saying Hes blameless nor do I particularly look fondly at his time as publisher but fuck every single person saying this shit as if Jim Lee isnt still running the company through the mud and an through an even worse era that the new 52.

>>150547495
But, they did… green lantern was the comic untouched by new 52

>>150545672
It was one of the worst business decisions ever. There’s a reason Nelson hasn’t had a job since leaving Warner.

Action Comics, Aquaman, Batman, Batman & Robin,The Flash, Animal Man and Wonder Woman were alright. The rest sucked tho

>>150545672
Well it sold a lot of issues. I think briefly they were ahead of Marvel around the start of it.
And some of the changes were positive, like removing the whole womb-spacecraft thing Byrne came up with for how 'Superman was actually really born on Earth'

It also finally reintroduced Steve Trevor as Wonder Woman's main love interest. That had been absent since Crisis on Infinite Earths, and was a big reason why her character was still so aimless even though her comics were pretty good

Aquaman had a good run.

The new costumes were all terrible. Superman needs the trunks, it's integral to the character design.
And a lot of the comics were pretty bad. (though even right now a lot of DC's comics are bad or mediocre)

I guess I'd say the New 52 was more good than bad for DC, since once it wore off its welcome they just retconned all the unpopular changes and then brought back the old continuity. So it didn't have a lasting negative impact.

The few years right before New 52 were confusing as hell tho. Continuity had gotten impossible, Identity Crisis, Infinite Crisis, 52, Countdown, Final Crisis, Blackest Night, Brightest Day... I was a kid when BD released but I remember readers being confused, feeling like the entire thing was going nowhere.

>>150547439
canon is dead

>>150548782
>The few years right before New 52 were confusing as hell tho
That’s not even remotely true though. That was the last time the company was actually cohesive. Frankly that period is the strongest in the history of the company by far. Outside of identity crisis the 98-2010 period is undeniably fantastic.

Here's my take on "New 52": I doubt anyone would be very upset if DC simply reverted back to pre-Flashpoint continuity right now and declared that everything printed between 2011 and 2025 was a dream some random character had.

>>150549226
I'm not saying it was bad, I'm saying it was confusing. Too much history, they needed to simplify in order to gain new readers. Explaining some characters' background felt like schizophrenia (and yeah, this keeps happening rn because they didn't do a good job).

The 2000's saw the rise of manga on a mainstream level, people were looking for a different, less complex kind of storytelling. Stories with a clear start and clear end, less baggage (like the ultimate universe). It was the right move performed by a bunch of stupid monkeys.

>>150548693
>And some of the changes were positive, like removing the whole womb-spacecraft thing Byrne came up with for how 'Superman was actually really born on Earth'

Both Waid's Birthright, and Johns's Secret Origin already nixed this.

>>150549449
>I'm saying it was confusing
It wasn’t though…
>I was a kid when BD released yet I’m going to try to tell you about the media landscape and growth of manga you lived through
Shut up kid.

Lmao Kara Zor El returns after being gone for 20 years and then just gets rebooted again in 5 years because of the New 52

>>150549545
maybe it wasn't confusing to you because you're a turbonerd retard but most people hated that shit, DC wasn't selling at all

>>150547495
they did, Cass was fucking erased for example.

>>150547034
This was the only and Ms.Marvel were the only things I looked forward to at the time. Or was Kamala the relaunch after now?

>>150549771
Batman was weird. Those first few issues it assumed everything was canon. Like Tim referencing that this was the worst version of the Titans but then it got removed in trade because that was the first team line up. Batman continuity was weird.

>>150545672
>reboot
>unreboot
Net zero.

>>150545672
Much like 90s era of Marvel (Clone Saga, Onslaught, Heroes Reborn) it has made a comeback due to nostalgia. Starting to wonder if Wells ASM will be popular in 10 years. But there are some New 52 runs that even people on here liked. Batman, Aquaman, Animal man, Batman & Robin, Green Lantern (not sure if we'd count that one), etc.

>>150550006
I think it depends. There's like an acknowledgement that Byrne-era Spider-Man isn't as bad as a lot of crap post-OMD, but I don't really see anybody sincerely pushing for a comeback to that era. Heroes Reborn at least could point to consistent sales, like estimated orders of above 100,000 per issue

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I liked Batgirl.

>>150547785
That's more like "headcanon", anon

>>150548782
Brightest Day kinda went nowhere and dragged on for too long. I remember thinking that as it was ongoing.

>>150549226
>Outside of identity crisis the 98-2010 period is undeniably fantastic.
And Final Crisis, and Amazons Attack, and Grounded, and morrison's Batman, and

>>150549272
Nah, they'd have to erase a lot of the 2000s too.

>>150549272
New 52 Batman and Robin is one of my favorite runs but I'm willing to bite the bullet for it.

>>150550604
Wonder Woman getting rebooted to a 20-something girl who grew up in America, listening to punk rock, Dick Grayson running the JLA as the new Batman, whatever the fuck JSA was doing

>>150545672
I have a theory that Justice League Dark and Doomsday Clock were specifically made as a middle finger to Alan and the vertigo writers and nothing else
>OUR characters, WE decide what to do with them, WE decide how it ends!
Not that they would care, Garth Ennis himself joked about John's status in his Six Pack reboot. The only people DC legitimately shat on was their own audience that liked these comics, with "Here! See Shade the Chaging Man appear for three issues and then jist fucking die like the B tier flop we see him as, you like this, right?"

>>150550310
The only reason Chapter One doesn't get a lot of the hate it once did is because even at the time no one was acknowledging the changes

>>150548600
Man, I love Morrison, but action comics was a fucking mess. And, on top of that, Morrison not playing ball fucked up the rest of the Super books.

>>150548693
>And some of the changes were positive, like removing the whole womb-spacecraft thing Byrne came up with for how 'Superman was actually really born on Earth
No born on Earth, born in the United States, because Byrne really, really needed Clark to be a citizen.

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>>150549449
>The 2000's saw the rise of manga on a mainstream level
Manga crashed hard in the late 00s and didn't recover until a decade later.
>Too much history, they needed to simplify in order to gain new readers.
There haven't been any new readers in any significant quantities in decades. Just lapsed readers. I doubt DC will still be publishing new comics in our lifetime.

>>150547120
>I know Flash had fans
I don't how Flash had fans after Buccalleto and Manapul left. Calling the post Manapul Flash book a dumpster fire is insulting to dumpster fires. It was so fucking terrible. Especially with that shitty Booth art.
Straight dogshit. Rotting dogshit. 3 week old rotting dogshit. Christ.

>>150550612
>nah, they'd have to erase a lot of the 2000s too
That makes no sense, the 2000s were great outside of identity crisis. New 52 happened in 2011, there would be no reason to change anything before it.

>>150550006
Well asm will be remembered like dmc2 or sonic '06 probably.
Only trolls and a single digit bunch of of profoundly ill retards cherishing it.

>>150545672
it destroyed DC comics

>>150545672
Well it got me to eventually just read old stuff & elseworlds instead. But no the experiment was a failure.

>>150547120
NOW! gave us Bendis Guardians & X-men. Also laid the ground work for all the diversity replacements.

>>150549226
Anon you're full of shit. Batman only existed for 5 years with all his Robins. No one knew what was leftover from New Earth. They had to retcon that continuity still existing while also retconning New 52's to be more like New Earth with "restoring" the Titans history & Kid Flash.

>>150553630
>Anon you're full of shit. Batman only existed for 5 years with all his Robins
No that’s what they did with the new 52.

>>150545805
>Let's put this in perspective
Ironic that this sentence is followed by such a useless and incoherent post. Let's unpack:
>Almost every 20 something
So, people with absolutely no fucking perspective on the comics industry as a whole? Gotcha.
>on comic twitter and comic TikTok
absolute dolts who specialize in engagement bait and superficial comparison to get likes and subscribes from literal monkeys.
>prefers the stuff that came before New 52
which "stuff"? That's a LOT of "stuff". Even early and late 2000s are fairly different from each other
>view the era itself as an awkward time for DC
again, why are we trusting the perspective of people who would have had to ask their parents to drive them to the comic book store at the time?

Whew, this was an artfully irrelevant post, lad. Good work.

>>150545672
They still haven't recovered from this.

>>150545672
Definitely harm. There's a reason they more or less reverted back to "everything is canon" again.
We did get some good shit out of n52, though. There were some books I really loved. In some ways that was the funnest time I had reading comics. Every week some new shitshow was happening with creators and editorial. Threads were fun to discuss the comics, and to shit on DC.
But as a whole, Jesus, the thing was a disaster for DC in the long run. It really fucked things up.

>>150553709
The ironic thing is you wrote even more and said even less.

>>150553709
>which "stuff"? That's a LOT of "stuff". Even early and late 2000s are fairly different from each other
Justice League International, Bronze Age Superman, Young Justice, New Teen Titans, etc
Zoomers on comic twitter knows more about capeshit than /co/ does at this point
>again, why are we trusting the perspective of people who would have had to ask their parents to drive them to the comic book store at the time?
The New 52 was supposed to be their generation
Stuff like the Justice League line-up bled into media that was specifically made for kids who didn't even read comics

>>150555476
I think the guy you were responding to is some shill from New 52 era DC getting upset at the truth

>>150545805
The only New 52 stuff I see praised on Twitter are
>Court of Owls
>Morrison's run on Action Comics, with maybe Pak and Yang's

One person is praising the Manapul Flash run

Outside of Twitter I think there were still people who like Azzarello's Wonder Woman.

Most stuff seems forgotten or hated. I also note that the people praising New 52 Action completely ignore most of the New 52 Superman ongoing.

>>150550664
Yeah, that Wonder Woman reboot came to mind... and then Nu52 came along and re-rebooted right away. Must be some kind of record.

>>150555840
>I also note that the people praising New 52 Action completely ignore most of the New 52 Superman ongoing.
Of course, Morrison being a prima donna ensured it could never be a great comic. Perez gave up after a few issues, Giffen gave up after even fewer, so they had yes-man Lobdell do some okay-but-forgettable stuff.

>>150545672
It's all dogshit, do not let hipsters convince you otherwise

>>150555840
The titles I hear about are
>Batman by Snyder
>Green Lantern
>Wonder Woman by Azzarello
>Aquaman
>Animal Man by Lemire
>Swamp Thing by Snyder and Soule

>>150556223
All shit, btw.

>>150555956
There was even more problems than that. Even if Morrison wasn't writing Action, Johns and Lee were also doing their own thing in Justice League

For the 80s Superman reboot, they did the Man of Steel miniseries first to establish the new history of the Byrne-era Superman, then published the ongoings after. New 52 they just launched with Johns/Lee Justice League, then the next month released the relaunches of everything. If they weren't so fixated on 52 ongoings they could've just put Morrison's six-issue arc in a miniseries and released that and Johns/Lee Justice League first, then while that is released work out what the plans for the present-day Superman is. For all of Byrne's flaws you have a general idea of Superman's new history, characterization, supporting cast, etc is within six issues of Man of Steel.

>>150556223
And most of these titles outside of the Azz WW either tried to keep most of the continuity or would have happened regardlesss of the reboots (most of the Johns backed titles).

>>150556482
Johns was originally slated to be the Justice League writer with Lee on pencils BEFORE DC decided to reboot the entire DCU. DC told the creatives about New 52 less than half a year before it was going to happen in September of 2011. So there was no planning whatsoever to how creatives could adapt to characters that were shared by multiple books.

>>150546636
I mostly afree but I hated Thawne's arc because his plan was so stupid despite him spending so many years putting it together, also I didn't like speed force creating basically speed force x-men.

>>150556496
Snyder Batman's first arc definitely tried to adhere to the old continuity at first (for the trade edition they changed a line of dialogue because the original implied there were prior Teen Titans teams but then it turned out New 52 Titans were the first team) but after that they kind of realized they could just do alterations (Zero Year was intended to replace Year One)

Snyder's Swamp Thing definitely sounded like it could've followed up after Brightest Day

Johns' Green Lantern definitely still followed up on stuff from his run though I haven't closely checked to see what changes might've been made

>>150556482
Years later Didio said he did regret doing 52 #1s in a single month which led to quite a number of those being DOA and that in hindsight they should have staggered out the release of the new books, which is why they used that approach with Rebirth.

Liked some of the Superman stuff, like Savage Dawn and when he became Doomsday and some of that stuff when he lost his powers. Rest was meh and I thought the solar Superman final boss was just...why. I've never heard much good said about N52 aside from Forever Evil being baller, which it is.

>>150548782
Infinite and 52 are actual kino though. Final is ok.
>>150549272
We need to keep Super Sons and a lot of the Rebirth Flash stuff thougheverbeit.

Is the convoluted nature of long-running comics overly exaggerated?

>>150553600
........THE Bendis??

>>150547120
>And? NOW! didn't do anywhere near as much damage as the new52.

Not immediately, no. But a lot of things from there caused larger long-term damage for Marvel, moreso because Marvel prefers to stick their head in the sand and pretend there's no problem whatsoever. At least DC can see there's problems and tries half the time to fix, even if it doesn't work out. Marvel can barely do that until the problem gets too big to do a fix.

>>150556223
>>150555840
I've never seen anyone say anything nice about Azzarello Wonder Woman on Twitter aside from the inclusion of that one Palestinian character

>>150556223
there's a few other under the radar good books most notably

>Dial H (which could have been a Vertigo book)
>Demon Knights (which didn't need a reboot to exist)
>All Star Western (basically a continuation of the "Jonah Hex" comic, didn't need a reboot to exist)
>Lemire's Frankenstein
>Giffen & Didio's OMAC (yes really)
>Resurrection Man

Basically, only Morrison's Action Comics and Azz's Wonder Woman actually rebooted the characters and were enjoyable.

Everything else that was good didn't need the reboot and at most, they just needed a status quo shift/new number 1 initiative to hype up Vertigo and Wildstorm characters entering the DCU, which was already happening after Brightest Day and Flashpoint

>>150557116
I think it's pretty clear Yoshida has been a disaster for Marvel. Even worse than his predecessors. The over-emphasis on Hickman and letting Brevoort and Lowe do a general terrible job on Avengers/X-Men and Spider-books.

>>150545672
Forever Evil was the best Crime Syndicate story ever written

>>150556959
Not when it involves retcons and stories about previous stories. If fanboy writers weren't so obsessed with digging up the past it wouldn't be a problem.

>>150557189
He is, but he wasn't the only problem. Alonso was EIC during most of the 2010s and a lot of the problems with Marvel people complain about still had its roots in Quesada-era Marvel

And that's not even getting into Disney's issues

Yoshida-era Marvel is basically them running on fumes

>>150556223
>>Batman by Snyder
>>Wonder Woman by Azzarello
>>Swamp Thing by Snyder and Soule
These are genuinely pretty bad though

>>150557463
This has to be bait right? The problem is the egotistical writers and editors trying to radically change shit and then doubling and tripling down when met with anger from readers before attempting two or three “compromises” so they don’t have to admit their initial change was retarded.

See everything DC has done since convergence. See everything Spider-Man related since OMD.

There should be no retcons. There should be no reimaginings. There should be no shake ups. If writers are bored then tell them to fuck off and make creator owned shit.

>>150557479
>>150557189
At least the Alonso and Quesada eras were good about reprints, half the complete collections went OOP during Cebulski's reign. I don't know if he has anything to do with that but it's something I noticed

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>>150557479
Quesada kept sales up for the most part. Just a big dip in late 2010 that was quickly corrected. Alonso had the highest high with Secret Wars, but he tanked sales for a long enough period that he lost his job. As far as I know, Cebulski's kept things stable which is why he's held on to the job.

>>150545672
It's the entire reason DC is in the sorry state it's in.

>>150557638
That’s a bit of an oversimplification. Rebirth would have fixed most of it if they hadn’t immediately undermined it with metal, metal 2, Bendis’ hiring and refusing to allow batman and Superman’s proper costumes come back until we’ll into king’s run and AC1000

>>150557495
I don't care for Snyder's Batman, but it was incredibly popular. I liked Azzarello's Wonder Woman, and so do a lot of other people, since it's still getting new printings. Snyder/Soule Swamp Thing was also a pretty good blockbuster movie/prestige-tv take on the concept. Yeah, it's not Vertigo, that's why it's part of the mainline and not part of a defunct imprint.

>>150557665
>>150557638
I’d also blame their move west on the state of their company now. This is easily the worst era of DC a ever, even worse than the new 52, and it’s because it’s run by, infested by, and listens to deranged west-coast LGBT people and political obsessives.

>>150557669
>but it was incredibly popular
This doesn’t make it good or worth reading for someone who hasn’t read it yet.
>I liked Azzarello's Wonder Woman
I don’t care. This just means, like fans of King’s Batman, you never liked the character before.
>Snyder/Soule Swamp Thing was also a pretty good
No the fuck it wasn’t, it just treated him like a cape shit character.

>>150557665
Rebirth would never have fixed it. Didio was never going to allow Johns to do that. New 52 was too much his baby and he only allowed Rebirth after Convergence/Divergence destroyed their sales. And even then he was planning to blow everything up with 5G again with Bendis/Rucka/Fraction/Deconnick before he got the boot. Him using Heroes in Crisis to further vilify Wally in case Wally replaced Barry just shows you what a spiteful manchild he was.

Didio is the one who dug the the hole that DC is still trying to climb out of.

>>150557669
Vertigo should have never gone defunct
>>150557710
I've heard the Snyder part of the Swamp Thing was divisive but Soule's was more in tune with what the character should be

>>150557710
>This doesn’t make it good or worth reading for someone who hasn’t read it yet.
A lot of people like big dumb comics like the ones Snyder makes.
>I don’t care. This just means, like fans of King’s Batman, you never liked the character before.
I liked the Perez and WML runs. It's just another interesting take, I'm not attached to the character being done in a specific way.
>No the fuck it wasn’t, it just treated him like a cape shit character.
I wouldn't say this is accurate, he wasn't going around fighting crime. It was The Green versus the Rot under Snyder then Soule did Green versus Green, then the Grey and the Metal. I guess it's a bit like Johns's own Color Wars take on Green Lantern which also did pretty well with a lot of people. Yeah it's not for book for comic hipsters, most aren't.

>>150558033
>Convergence/Divergence destroyed their sales
Their sales were already on the tank after the first year of the new 52 and the only reason they did convergence was because they were moving west.

Also see: >>150548126

>>150557710
>like fans of King’s Batman, you never liked the character before.

I agree I HATE these FAKE fans of Batman and Wonder Woman! I have seen Azzarello Wonder woman in paperback, compact edition, omnibus, absolute, and deluxe hardcover. So many fake assholes buying phony comics. Man fuck DC catering to these frauds and fakes.

>>150558134
You genuinely come off as Scott Snyder himself seething right now.

>>150558209
Happy we agree.

>>150545672
harm

>>150548153
Which was the 2nd time that happened, strange enough. They survived the Crisis too.

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>>150558220
Snyder can barely articulate himself and I don't like his Batman. His Swampy was all right though. Comic hipster Kate Leth liked it too.

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>>150558328
Initially, then they gave him a new origin that made him a drunk driver. Johns got rid of it a few decades later.

>>150558033
>he was planning to blow everything up with 5G again with
It's insane how badly they wanted to destroy everything. DC hates how much its fans appreciate the ongoing narrative when all companies want to do is reboot every year and retell the same stories over and over.

>>150558562
All these big events and reboots happen out of necessity look at >>150557627
He wasn't able to make it happen quickly and efficiently enough which cost him and a bunch of other people their jobs. They needed to raise sales, they just didn't and still don't know how to do that in a way that works long-term.

>>150556637
And that's from a retard who usually refuses to acknowledge his mistakes to begin with

>>150556980
Yeah, the comic book writer

>>150558608
>they still don't know how to do that in a way that works long-term.
Have they tried making good comics?

>>150556223
>Aquaman
Goes to shit in Vol2.
No really, it actually jumps from 9/10 to 3/10.

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Hey guys, remember me?

>>150548126
This

Diane Nelson was an airheaded executive who thought a brand restructuring on DC was like a new coat of fresh paint. Didio tried to appease her and her direct report while trying to manage the reboot of the entire DC line and all Jim Lee did was provide popped collars and decided that Alan Scott should be gay.

Didio is a mixed bag but he seemed to care and at least was a leader...maybe not a good one but he tried.

Meanwhile Jim Lee never gave a fuck and has been coasting on WB's original misunderstanding that he was way more than just a technical penciler.

>>150558741
OH HELLO JIM SHOOTER
LOOK EVERYONE, WE HAVE JIM SHOOTER OVER HERE, HE'S GOT ALL THE ANSWERS

Get out of my office. You make me sick.

>>150557178
I like the Azzarello Wonder Woman. I think Chiang's artwork is amazing. I like how they redesigned the Greek gods. I thought the story had real heart by the time it wrapped up with the baby.

I get that its "not muh" but I've always favored the Elseworlds stuff so I don't understand why so many people get so hung up on the continuity. Just ignore it.

>>150550544
All canon is headcanon

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>>150546233
Same here.
I much prefer the Silver Age and spin-off comics, but the New 52 was when I got into comics as a whole.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiMIuvZXQu4
>receiving LEGO Batman sets as Christmas gifts
>dressing up as Batman or Halloween
>borrowing Batman: The Brave & The Bold DVDs from the library
>buying Justice League: Crisis on Infnite Earths DVD
>watching Justice League Unlimited on Saturday mornings
>playing Arkham Asylum on my Xbox 360
>watching the Batman trilogy at my friend's house
*sips from Batmug*
It was a good time.

I didn't get back into comics until the Superboy Prime thread back in December 2020. Even now, I only buy physical when there's a sale.
https://desuarchive.org/co/thread/119822730/#q119823337

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>>150558948

>>150553709
I've seen 20 year olds give more introspective on older comics and there history then a lot of old heads,

It's really not hard to read old shit and compare it to older shit

>>150558525
>I like Batman
>but I don’t read Batman
Yeah great idol you have there fagboy

They found a way to ruin Jonah Hex

>>150558882
a bit, at least is not as shit as h'el or cyborg superman kryptonian.

>>150559297
I've been seeing the same thing and was surprised at that. I'd gotten used to modern fans from the 00s snarkily dismissing comics made before the 00s, or sometimes before DKR and Watchmen, so it's a nice change of pace to see the next generation actually give a shit and leave those old snark geezers in the dust

>>150551022
Perez asked multiple times "Are Ma & Pa Kent still alive?" and never got an answer.

>>150559432
>cyborg superman kryptonian.
How did they undo that anyway? I fee like I remember something about Hank just remembering he was a cyborg one day, or something like that.

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To me the funniest thing about Nu52 was how DC & WB went all in trying to convince the general public that not only was Cyborg an A-lister now? He had ALWAYS been an A-lister.

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>>150559978
He was hanging out with all the top heroes in a cartoon Geoff Johns watched as a kid, that made him a big deal to him.

>>150560237
Cannot be overstated how awful his old design was

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>>150560237
That's only half the story

The other half is that higher ups wanted John Stuart as the default Green Lantern in the Nu52 and as the token black guy in Justice League which would have messed up all of Geoff Johns plans for GL. Johns counter pitched putting Cyborg on the team instead and again, since nobody high up knew any better they took his word that he was popular enough to get the big push he was given.

>>150559297
>>150559578
Do you think it's because piracy got so much easier for people to actually find access to decades of material?
I've noticed a good chunk of the most passionate individuals over capeshit aren't even Americans

>>150545672
What's so bad about it? I thought it was alright.

Should I buy the Morrison New 52 Superman omnibus?

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It gave Babs her legs back, so I’ll always have a soft spot for it.

New 52 would have been 90% better received if they had:
>Kept Martian Manhunter as a founding member of the JL instead of Cyborg, use John or Mr Terrific as a founding member if you want a black man
>Given Superman a design that didn't completely suck
>Launched with a Teen Titans book composed of the cartoon line-up (Robin or Nightwing, Beast Boy, Starfire, Raven, Cyborg)
>Not done whatever the fuck they did with Green Arrow
>Not launched a Red Hood book
>Forced Morrison to be a team player and tell Perez his plans for Action
>Not given 1/3rd of the line to Lobdell, Liefeld, Nocenti and other washed 90s Marvel writers
Like seriously if they had done at least most of these I'm 90% certain Rebirth wouldn't have happened and we would still be in N52 continuity with some changes.

>>150562457
Depends if you like golden age Superman than you'll enjoy Morrison's take on it. If not than its a bit weaker compared to his other writings.

>>150562571
>Martian Manhunter is a depressed edgelord who hates the JL and stays away from them at all times
>Superman leans into him being an alien and can't relate to humans
nu52 JL was so bad

>>150545672
It dicked the company in every hole like an issue of Crossed.

>>150562477
Aye but the tratment that fixed her legs killed her libido.

>>150548126
Go fuck yourself. Didio bending the knee to Diane doesn’t make him less complicit.

>>150564203
Read that again, particularly:
>To blame it all on didio isnt just revisionist it’s flat out incorrect. And believe me, Im not saying Hes blameless nor do I particularly look fondly at his time as publisher but fuck every single person saying this shit as if Jim Lee isnt still running the company through the mud and an through an even worse era that the new 52.

>>150562963
I’m so sick of casuals saying this just because they heard it before. It bares not resemblance to golden age superman outside of the first few issues of “h-h-he like is an adversary of the government”. Morrison’s action is just a hodge Podgorica of stupid fucking ideas brought up and abandoned.

>>150564247
I did. I think it’s disingenuous to insinuate that because that bald fuck had some preferences, that he wasn’t a worthless waste of skin the company would have been objectively better off without. Yeah, corporate sucks. Always has, always will. Doesn’t make the creative decisions Didiot DID helm not universally damaging.

What the fuck is this psyop? Was the Didio cock that good to ride? How much are DC paying you to pretend leadership isn’t completely incompetent and malicious?

>>150562571
>>Launched with a Teen Titans book composed of the cartoon line-up (Robin or Nightwing, Beast Boy, Starfire, Raven, Cyborg)

I swear this is the most confusing part of the New 52 reboot. Back when I was 12 I was reading a lot of Marvel (Spider-Man, X-Men, Avengers, etc) and I knew jackshit about DC. Not even Batman or Superman beyond the very basics.

But I knew that DC had just rebooted and Teen Titans was the DC franchise I feel the most familiar with thanks to reruns of the 2003 animated series in Cartoon Network. So I go and I try to check out the Teen Titans comic. Except I check the cover and it looks like fucking this. Who the fuck are any of these guys? Where are Beast Boy or Raven? Why does everyone have Tron suits? Yeah, didn't start reading DC until 3 or 4 years later.

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>>150564950
>>150562571
I forgot to link the image

>>150545672
Canning Hellblazer was one of the worst mistakes they've ever made

>>150564950
I had near identical experience lol

>>150547034
Duggan Deadpool was a miracle and marvel has spent the past decade and some change pushing it feet first into a wood chipper

>>150561892
At the end of the day its wasn't even a matter of popularity but the fact that Vic is barely even a character. He's spent the past 50 years with less personality than a one off batman villain and that's probably never going to change.

>>150562571
>>Given Superman a design that didn't completely suck

That's what frustrates me. New 52 plated Superman is easily the second or third-worst Superman design of the 2010s, worst being the Injustice designs (I don't know if they count as one or two). The worst part is you can see other trunkless designs in that decade that were way better by comparison

>Forced Morrison to be a team player and tell Perez his plans for Action

This is 50% of the problem. The other problem is that they should've gotten "the past" established before launch. Morrison/Morales Action wasn't the only thing taking place in the past; Johns/Lee Justice League's first arc as well. Only Perez's Superman was in the "present" and it meant Morrison and Johns have not established enough of Superman's past for Perez to work with. Hell, Morrison expected to only do six issues of Action and then changed his mind.