Everytime I think I'm tired I find something a little more tiresome. >Matt Reeves supervisedDo we want this fucker raping the Batman even more?
Why not?
She looks like she can kick most other Penguins asses, and I am here for it.Stay salty, OP.
>oswaldaWhat the fuck? If it's just the same character but female why even make the change? Same with Gordan and Barbara being black. The only thing it does is draw attention to a humongous elephant in the room. Its the fucking 40's and a black guy is the commissioner? A black woman is representing a white man in court? This "minor" changes are fucking annoying.
>>150571840that my only issue is the name
Sometimes I wonder if people complained when Eartha Kitt played Catwoman. Or Halle Barry. Were they terrible? Yes. But the race swap was never an issue until 2017.
>>150572007Funny enough Selina is white in this show
>>150571713A key part of Oswald's character is that he creates a parallel with Bruce Wayne (charismatic young playboy vs. repugnant old man). It doesn't really work if you make Oswald a woman, so you have to replace it with something. But at that point you're already halfway to creating a new character, and you might as well go the full distance.
>>150572075>SelinaShe was in Caped Crusader? I don't even remember her kek
>>150571693Ma Mayhem was RIGHT THERE and could have filled this role perfectly. Full-figured crimeboss lady who abuses her incompetent sons. Instead they sex-swapped the Penguin just because they wanted to be subversive and different.
>>150572432The same Episode where Harley is introduced. She's... okay.
>>150571693>Matt Reeves supervisedThis just makes it obvious that he didn’t want some shitty cartoon stepping on his live action series’s’ toes. Do you people seriously think Matt Reeves prefers fucking Oswalda to Colin Farrell’s Penguin? Cmon now.
>>150572007Race swap was definitely an internal issue with Kitt. A long list of rules was made for what she could or could not do that Newmar was allowed. Notably the rules regarding Selena's femme fatale nature. When Catwoman was Kitt, her flirtatious nature was often toned down if not removed in order to not cause controversy regarding interracial relationships.A lot of rules regarding that kind of thing were broken and subsequently changed thanks to a conspiracy plan hatched by William Shatner and a camera man, even if they were still somewhat de facto in place for almost a decade after
>>150572584I mean black Gordan is still present.
There are some things in this I like. It's got a "swashbuckling early Detective Comics" feel. Villains kidnap damsels and use eloborate traps. Batman moves like a detective mixed with James Bond. Aside from that I don't like how... juvenile it can be with the dialogue and how the stories are paint by numbers. It's a young adult show that aired on Adult Swim but I feel like Beware the Batman and BTAS were more mature. Also the way the action is drawn or shot it feels so flat. Like the punches feel so weightless and even when the enviornment shifts it feels like a background painting.
>>150572603I appreciate the info but it raises the question if its always an issue to race change a white character why the fuck do they keep insisting on it? The only two times when they made this drastic change and no one cared were Kingpin in Daredevil and Harvey Dent in Batman 89. I'm sure you can find some white passing mexican that got cast as Superman but do those really count?
>>150572618Apparently Gordan is literally a diversity hire in that universe
I like the one episode where Jim Corrigan sees Batman and goes "well I'll be damned"Cute reference
Why did they build Alfred like a sack of shit?
>>150572075>>150572432>>150572515Caped Crusader Selina is weird in that she's treated as a complete and utter joke character, in a way that makes it feel like someone in the production really doesn't like Catwoman as a concept
>>150572494You know they’d complain about a Batman show using more obscure characters.
>>150572933>I don't like how... juvenile it can be with the dialogueIt felt at odds with the setting and supposed tone. Bats came across like a moody teen and Barbara acted like a bored, modern woman scrolling her phone the whole time>Also the way the action is drawn or shot it feels so flat.I noticed that as well. I’m not sure if it’s a budget issue but there’s definite corner cutting. Look at any background character in a scene and none of them are moving or blinking, the whole thing feels lifeless>>150576304The show has a weird problem with changing characters personality for the sake of being different. I think the only interesting one would be Harvey but even then not by much
>WTF why isnt this exactly like BTAS?Fuck you that's why. It was good and im tired of pretending that it wasn't
>>150576304Seems obvious they're setting up Babs to get with Bruce. Especially since Dick is like 8 years old while she's at least early 20's. Sucks because Babs is so fucking unlikeable. Like she is such a bitch. I understand they have to set up her being Oracle and Batgirl but she's such a hard ass there is virtually no difference between her and Montoya. The Batman 2004 did it much better. Beware the Batman tooSpeaking of Montoya she's been established long enough that I don't care if she's a lesbian. But why does she go from a bad ass detective to a shy middle school girl when she finds a girl she likes? Fucking embarassing.
>>150578268It doesn't need to be like BTAS. It needs to be better. For the most part it does nail the silver age Detective Comics but this is a visual medium. I shouldn't have to question why women are in certain positions or black people. In one scene harvey bullock might make a derrogatory reference to Montoya's sexuality. In another scene she can be sitting eating in a restuarant with her girlfriend and no one cares.
>>150578550>But why does she go from a bad ass detective to a shy middle school girl when she finds a girl she likes? Fucking embarassing.A few of us talked about Jay Nakamura with John a while back and there was a consistent agreement that the reason he didn't work was because he was just the same kind of cardboard cut out "GF" character you saw a lot of in the 1990s but that no one within the industry was calling it out because "gay representation!"The reality is that a lot of cape writers just do not know how to write good love interests and "the characters entire personality gets thrown out a window the moment love interest shows up" tends to be a hallmark of that
>>150578550Another thing I don't like is the characters who die or turn evil. Spoilers :Jim Corrigan is working for Rupert Thorne and attempts to kill Barbara three feet away from her father. Harvey Bullock is the same. You can have characters who were corrupt go over to the good side. Gotham did that. But there are some actions that are just too evil to walk back. At least some of these guys are meant to be Superheroes.
>>150578268>It was goodBut it wasn't. Even if you looked past the race and gender swapping, it was still a crappy Batman show that was barely about Batman.
>>150578638This. It's especialy an issue with same sex couples. Tim Drake is such a tragedy. He goes from one of the best Robin's to... Just a sissy! There's no other word for it. They genuinely kicked his ass to the maturity of a 13 year old and he's in his 20's. They always try hard not offend anyone by making the "woke" character as Chibi as possible. It's just annoying.
>>150578769I don't understand it. I probably sound like a broken record but this show is genuinely like silver age comics. I think if they didn't swap races and genders it might get the same respect as Batman Brave and the Bold. But because they did... THIS you already left a bad taste in the audience's mouth.
>>150577540No lie when I found out Gentleman Ghost had an episode I mentally checked out before it even started. At the same time Leslie Thompkins having an orphanage with all the sidekicks is so fucking cringe that I actually can't believe it. >Dick and JasonSure. Iffy though. >StephanieOkay well she genuinely had a good backstory with her father and its really gay you just wrote it off>Carrie KellyOkay now you're being retarded and don't think I didn't notice black Tim Drake (might've been Signal) and Cassandra Cain. Just fuck off. References for the sake of it.
>>150578889It's worse in the same sex couples because when you do it with a straight couple, you don't have any carte blanche defense for when people call it out.
>>150576304>Caped Crusader Selina is weird in that she's treated as a complete and utter joke character>>150578550>Seems obvious they're setting up Babs to get with Bruce.It's not like this was developed by Bruce Timm, oh wait a minute!!
>>150578746I think I recall someone in the production clarifying that the Jim Corrigan that is in Caped Crusader isn't the more famous one who becomes the host of the Spectre, but rather the one from Gotham Central who murders Crispus Allen>>150578005most of the other character changes I'm fine with, Selina's just sticks out a bit as being kind of weird
Can we finally acknowledge that the more creative liberty Timm and his goons get, the bigger hacks they become?I'm starting to suspect the only reason BTAS turned out the way it did was because of executive meddling, despite Timm shills always whining at how the bad corp didn't let them do every fucking thing they wanted.
>>150579417Paul Dini was carrying it on his back, he tends to prove himself as a solid writer when left to his own devices I quite liked his Detective Comics run.
>>150578005>Bats came across like a moody teen>that scene when baby Bruce makes the vowCringiest scene in the entire show.
>>150578005>I think the only interesting one would be Harvey but even then not by muchI can't believe they made Harvey corrupt, the only reason I didn't chimp out was because they kept Flass a corrupt cop, but made him a black guy (a combo I never thought they would try).
>>150579074I liked it. So left to right>Stephanie>Tim>Cass>Duke>Jean Paul(?)>... I think her name is blue bird?And i liked how Bruce is dating Julie which had to be a reference to Julie Newmar
>>150578268>>150578769Even from an aesthetic standpoint, it's flat and uninterestingFor instance, the swordfight with Clayface was one of the most oatmeal bland action sequences I'd ever seen, they could have copied Robin Hood or Mark of Zorro shot for shot and been better off
>>150579595It's a reference to Julie Madison, his original love interest
>>150579417>finallyBrother where were you when Timm RAPED the Killing Joke? That first 14 minutes that only exists to push his Babs/Bruce ship and thus recontextualize the rest of story is so fucking nasty.
>>150579640Thats still good. You know its odd they didn't use Bette. But then as others have been saying they want Barb to end up with Bruce.
>>150572298The same argument can be thrown at Wolverine in that one of the reasons Logan is such an ornery bitch all the time is because he's so very fucking short. Hit tiny baby body adds to his rage, but everyone in outsider media just wants him to be tall instead, which ruins a part of his character.
>>150572298Bruce being new money and Oz being old money is one of the few things I actually like about Penguin, shame.
>>150579644I would agree if not for even after that travesty, there are still people defending Timm and his "Batman vision".
>>150579600That sword fight scene itself was kino and was 100% something you'd see in BtBatB. However as I said the clashing felt like there was no impact. It felt the same way a bad movie fight feels when you can tell the actors are just waiting for the other guy to move his blade in the air so he can swipe at it. I really couldn't stand car chases. The city is so fucking empty.
>>150579577Harvey Bullock has always been corrupt but it gets toned down in adaptations
>>150579879Not really, though. Harvey may have started as a corrupt cop, but they quickly changed that. Specially after Crisis, Harvey is often portrayed as an out-of-the book cop, but never corrupt. That being the portrayal more associated with the character.
>>150579879>>150579977Bullock will rough up a suspect and he'll probably extort a hot dog or a burger, maybe even a screw from a hooker, but he's never been out and out dirty enough to kill for money, especially a copIt smacks of the Corrigan misdirect from Gotham Central, but the problem is Brubaker ALSO ported that over to this show
>>150579493Timm is the reason Harley is a non villain now. Yes she's killed people, kidnapped kids, blown up half the city, broken out the criminals, and abused her power as a psychologist to fuck an inmate but she's a lesbian now! So she's absolved. Fuck Harley Quinn in this show. She gets off easy because she's Bab's friend. Dini is my favourite because he basically helped make the best Batman games. Arkham Asylum and City were amazing and its funny how when Dini didn't get a call back, Rocksteady proceeded to make the most devisive game and then the one of the worse game in the last decade
>>150579525Caped Crusader could have been 10/10 if it had Dini as the exec producer and a bigger budget.
I don't care man... There's been like fifty different batman cartoons at this point. Why do people act like this shit's permanent or something?Does anyone remember when the Joker was a juggalo?
>>150571741The Batman penguin would destroy her.
>>150573057In Daredevil, the guy is massive, intimidating, he's really just the big evil bad guy without much explanation to his story, and you know black involvement in organized crime makes a black kingpin believable. So really it just checks the majority of the boxes you want filled. You mean Lando Calrisian playing as Harvey Dent? Plus minor character in that film and Billie Dee Williams is well liked. So I think there's an additional question in how much does the racial identity of the character impact the actual identity of the character. So having a bunch of shit changed or just ignored in order to accommodate racial issues changes a lot of the character. Halle Barry kind of gets a pass because in spite of it being a bad movie, Cat Woman is still a femme fatale and she awakened something in many young boys and some young girls
>>150580703You forget the key difference.All those casting choices (at least, Kingpin and Harvey Dent) were made with the idea of chosing someone ideal for the role, skin color be damned.Nowadays, we know it is not a matter of skill, but a matter of checking boxes.
>>150571693He already made Gordon black, Batman incompetent, Riddler an incel sperg stealing Anarky's thunder, & Catwoman into this goblina in a child's beanie for a mask. It's never been more over. Watch The Batman Part 2 introduce a black Robin next.
>>150580812It was never about the right person for the role.
>>150580812I felt like it was somewhat implied, but yah I probably should have said priority 1 is the right person for the right role. Something I find interesting is how the VA's for Jack in Samurai Jack and Jet in the English dub of Cowboy Bebop are both black men, but the voices are fantastic and the characters look fine so it's a great fit
>>150571693>tiresomeKill yourself.
>>150580918Back in those days? Yes, it was.Or, at most, we could agree there might have been some nepotism between producer/director and the actor.But the reason was not the same as it is today.
>>150571693Oh no, a comic book nerd is mad again.
>>150571693I honestly thought it was an interesting take on the character. Also, having Penguin be modelled after an Emperor Penguin rather than the usual squat little fucker is a fun design.
>>150572007>Sometimes I wonder if people complained when Eartha Kitt played CatwomanGuaran-fucking-teed. It was the 60s.
>>150581097Where the FUCK do you think you are?
>>150580599Oz Cobb could barely finish a geriatric Salvatore Maroni. He's big but he's fucking useless
>>150580551The scene in question>Bruce opens Alfred's door at night>Alfred wakes and sees him standing like a numpty in the doorway>"They'll pay. I'll make them pay. And you're going to help me.">shuts the door
>>150580882>a black robinAlready been done three times now.
>>150581431Posted too fast. >Dick in Batman 89 comic is black>Tim Drake in Titans is mullato>Damian in the comics has been turning darker and darker despite both Bruce being Italian and Talia being reletively light. Magic whale womb be damned Bruce got cucked
>>150580703Michael Clarke Duncan is honestly an interesting case because his whole typecast before this was "guy who could end you in a punch but doesn't because he has a heart of gold.", his best known role was Green Mile at this point and to be fair, that typecast just seemed to be his IRL personality with pretty much everyone who met him talking about what a kind-hearted gentle giant he was.So Daredevil was honestly a chance to spread his wings.I'm not gonna lie I'm just mentioning him like this because he is a textbook "Lost too soon" actor. RIPOne thing I think would be important to mention is that Duncan actually was quite nervous both about playing a typically white character and about making sure he looked the part in terms of physique. He was apparently a casual fan.https://web.archive.org/web/20081201193238/http://www.ugo.com/channels/filmtv/features/daredevil/michael.asp
>>150581302>2025 I am forgotten
>>150581609>One thing I think would be important to mention is that Duncan actually was quite nervous both about playing a typically white character and about making sure he looked the part in terms of physique. He was apparently a casual fanBased MCD
>>150581660I don't even know why I disliked that show as a kid. I went back to rewatch it recently and its genuinely awesome. Not as good as BTAS, but for what it's trying to be, it's very good
>>150581660He's what I kind of imagine Mr. Hyde looks like. He's described with a similar build and a malformation that can't be placed.
>>150581720>He's what I kind of imagine Mr. Hyde looks likeI'd actually never thought about it like that before. Damn, you might be on to something, anon!
>>150581660I love this Penguin
>>150581681Ngl this whole interview is pretty based. The fact that he not only said he read the Miller run in prep for the role but actually backs it up by talking about stuff like Vanessa which he asked if she could be in the movie.Then just the bit about how Ben wanted to do a few of his own stunts only for MCD to shut him down because he wasn't getting the choreography right while MCD HAD to do the stunt scenes.This whole interview just completely illustrates why he was the best part of the movie
>>150581609I never knew he was in so many movies I've seen. Yah that makes a lot of sense since he otherwise always is this gentle giant and was commonly cast as also emotionally sensitive.
>>150581660Theres a scene where Penguin and Joker and Batman are fighting each other and there's a really kino shot of them fighting in a basketball court and its filmed behind the fence with that shakey cam style. And the sun is just barely setting so its all sillouhetted and there's no music its just the three of them beating each other up Its like a 5 or 10 second shot but it was so cool.
>>150581609And on the other end you have Will Smith being cast if Deadshot and just playing himself so he could fuck Margot Robbie and collect the check. But as a black guy myself I wouldn't want to be cast as Superman or Robin or any character that's traditionally white.
>>150581609I swear that man is just a giant cuddly teddy bear after reading that interview. Although he would have had a great career in the NFL, he's probably having a better life having not
>>150582170>He's probably having a better lifeUh, anon
>>150572298>A key part of Oswald's character is that he creates a parallel with Bruce Waynenot alwayssometimes he is just a bird-obsessed loon with an old timey fashion sense
>>150572603What was Shatner's role in this?
>>150581660This fucker was overused.
>>150582223Lived, right my mistake
>>150582287In what is now one of the most famous scenes of Star Trek TOS, Kirk and Uhura shared a kiss. This almost didn't happen though. The network got cold feet and made them rewrite and re-film it to a hug. Shatner and the camera man conspired so that it would be filmed in a way that only the two of them could tell Shatner was making goofy ass faces at the camera the entire time, something which no one else realized until it was time for editing. Since they all figured it out too late, they had to use the kiss footage to get the episode out on time.This was perhaps the most notable interracial kiss on TV at the time and when the episode didn't cause the ratings to plummet, a lot of TV execs realized "Oh so that is okay to do"
>>150582227My favorite interpretation. And The Batman cartoon 2004 was the last to do it. Make this absolute clod who thinks he's high society and uses trick umbrellas to steal bird themed items is the best characterization. >>150581218i actually like the mask from the telltale games. The half-bottle lodged in his eye from Arkham City is also a cool liberty for that monocle look
>>150582422That crazy Canuck, that's just brilliant
>>150582422Thanks for the explanation. I knew about the Star Trek kiss, I just didn't know about the cameraman and Shatner conspiring to get it done. I had also thought that Shatner had a more direct role in the Kitt situation, but now understand the reference was only to the Star Trek kiss.
>>150571713Because it's fucking awful.
>>150582422And some people say Shatner is overrated, kek
>>150582453>>150582581I got it a bit wrong. There were a few ways they sabotaged it. There were two versions.One where they kissedOne where they hugged.Shatner's goofy face conspiracy was because the angle the network planned on using was one where their lips would be obscured by the back of Nichol's headFor the hug shoot, Shatner and Nichols kept giving deliberately poor and awkward delivery to make the footage unusable.A lot of the crew including Gene were varying degrees of in on the sabotage but the plan was mostly Nichols, Shatner, and the camera guy who deliberately hid that Shatner made the face until it was time for them all to review the dailiesFrom Nichols's autobiography>Knowing that Gene was determined to air the real kiss, Bill shook me and hissed menacingly in his best ham-fisted Kirkian staccato delivery, "I! WON'T! KISS! YOU! I! WON'T! KISS! YOU!">It was absolutely awful, and we were hysterical and ecstatic. The director was beside himself, and still determined to get the kissless shot. So we did it again, and it seemed to be fine. "Cut! Print! That's a wrap!">The next day, they screened the dailies, and although I rarely attended them, I couldn't miss this one. Everyone watched as Kirk and Uhura kissed and kissed and kissed. And I'd like to set the record straight: although Kirk and Uhura fought it, they did kiss in every single scene. When the non-kissing scene came on, everyone in the room cracked up. The last shot, which looked okay on the set, actually had Bill wildly crossing his eyes. It was so corny and just plain bad, it was unusable. The only alternative was to cut out the scene altogether, but that was impossible to do without ruining the entire episode. Finally, the guys in charge relented: "To hell with it. Let's go with the kiss." I guess they figured we were going to be cancelled in a few months anyway. And so the kiss stayed.
>>150571693Because they wanted attention and to look different, it failed, and they're not getting a new season, next question
>>150582729They say he posts on /tv/
>>150582048Ironically, Will WAS offered the role of Superman back in the late 90s early aughts and turned it down because he felt taking it would spell trouble as a black man playing a character with such a set-in-stone look would, in his eyes, piss off the audience
>>150581054Anon they weren't looking for the best actor for a bit part playing Harvey Dent as a cameo who has one scene. They pick Billy Dee Williams purely because he was somewhat known. Best actor they could find was not a factor. Otherwise they'd find the best one to portray Harvey Dent who's white.>>150581431>>150581585That's not Dick. Tim in Titans sure. But the point is it's never been done in a movie & DC already tried then shelves Blarbara. They'll let Reeves do it officially in a movie. It'd be at least a little less annoying if they make him an OC instead of raceswapping.
>>150583177>>150583177>Anon they weren't looking for the best actor for a bit part playing Harvey Dent as a cameo who has one scene. This. If they thought Billy was the best actor they would've gone back to him for Batman Forever
What happened to that black superman movie they were threatening us with?
>>150583177>>150583261They picked Billy Dee, hell, they wrote Harvey Dent into the film entirely because Billy Dee was a fan who wanted to portray Harvey before the movie went into pre-production and had basically been campaigning for the role for years.
>>150571840My main problem with race-swapping is that it's ultimately pointless at the end of the day for animated adaptations, especially if they try to focus on real-world issues like sexism or racism when changing the identity of characters. Superhero stories should feel believable, but they're ultimately operating within an exaggerated depiction of reality that goes beyond things like racism, slavery, and misogyny. It's one of the reasons I don't like Wonder Woman in New Frontier because classic Wonder Woman is like a fairy tale or a mythic pulp character come to life, the whole point is that she's a larger than life figure who solves WW2 by tying up the Nazis and sparing people. If you're overly grounding superheroes in contemporary geopolitics or entangling the supporting cast with classism/sexism/racism, it stops being an escapist or wish-fullfillment fantasy and more like an ugly reminder of all the stuff we're powerless to stop as normal everyday folks.>>150583332I wanted Billy Dee as Two-Face because although Burton's Batman takes a lot of liberties with Batman, it feels like it truly understands what a comic book superhero should feel and be like. Like a dream or a fairy tale. Kinda like Raimi-Man or Donner's Superman duology.
>>150583177Except, according to the information available so far, it seems that Burton had planned Billy Dee to be Two-Face eventually, but it never came to be.In which case, it still falls into 1 of the 2 readings I previously said.And, if we add the "he is popular" reading, it is still a different reason for which the race swaps are done nowadays.
>>150583319Zaslav canned it because it was "too woke" which seems a bit hasty...and then it came out that the movie would focus on a black Superman being at the center of the American civil rights movement.Exactly the problem I have with raceswaps, it's always the same fucking problem.>let's change the white characters to be black>(sure)>but now let's overly ground the setting and characters to be anti-escapist and anti-wish-fulfillment>(that's not a wise choice)>and then let's change core aspects of the characters so they're basically OCs or a composite of other characters>(please stop)
>>150571840>Same with Gordan and Barbara being blackWho's to blame for that? Lego Batman Movie?I tell you, design-wise Barbara in Caped Crusader is such a dead ringer to Lego Movie Barbara is not even funny.
>>150578616I feel like you could genuinely have a pulpy urban art deco animated series with a diverse supporting cast, the problem is that The Batman is the worst character for this sort of thing because:>nearly all of his supporting cast is white as fuck>you could do race-swaps, but including sex appeal is something that will get censored, and having to comment on racism/sexism will worm its way in there>no one knows how to make interesting/cool designs for raceswapped characters because they're either completely unrecognizable or nigh-identical to the originalNow, if you did a Shadow show or cartoon, I would watch it since his supporting cast is already pretty damn diverse.>Moe is jewish>Jericho Druke is black>Myra is white...but you could easily just make her Asian considering her story has her disguise herself as an Asian woman>Dr Tam is asian>Margo is a lady>Burbank's true identity is unknown>Lamont Cranston is white, but The Shadow's true identity could be anything
>>150583609the Gordons being black (Reevesman, the canned Batgirl movie) is due to WB briefly cowtowing to diversity mandates right before the Blackrock money dried up and long before USAID funding was cutThey're in a similar position to April O'Neil where the rest of the cast is either already diverse in the source material or has a precedent for race swaps in previous adaptations, or can't be race/gender swapped to begin with (it would be impractical or create bad optics) so they're the only ones who get hit with a diversity mandate which means it sticks out harder.Fun fact, they're not Black in the Lego Batman movie, they're actually Hispanic.
>>150583887>Fun fact, they're not Black in the Lego Batman movie, they're actually Hispanic.fun fact, just because you take Africans to the carribean and have them speak spanish, it doesn't make them not have African ancestry.
>>150583261>>150583332This literally proves my point they didn't pick the best actor for the role. They picked him just because he's him. That's my point.>>150583476If that's true then it just shows further how Burton wasn't trying to be faithful at all but that's a different argument.
>>150571693The gooners defending this trash are beyond pathetic.
>>150584877Just a clarification, is your whole deal here specifically only about Billy Dee Williams?Or you believe the same applies to other case like Michael Clarke Duncan?
Anyone else curious what Billie Dee Williams' evil side as two face would be like? The good being his usual suave self makes sense, just not sure how he would do comically evil. Still would have been interesting to see
>>150572007>nigger>stealsIronicly more fitting.
>>150571693Why not? Penguin is one of my favorite villains but I think it's a nice oddball AU version. It's not like he's getting permanently killed off and replaced with this.
>>150571693femguin was the best part of that series though>>150571840slightly differen,t she had 2 sons
>>150586587>It's not like he's getting permanently killed off and replaced with this.Oh, you sweet, sweet summer child...
>>150571713For the same reason you wouldnt tolerate a male character wearing makeup, fucking moronYour "genderneutral message" falls flat if the male characters then has to follow certain dresscodes
>>150572007Nice try dipshit, this is genderswapping we are talking about You simps would flip your shit if there was a male version of Wonder Woman who ran around halfnaked and wore makeup
You siomps can yap about "sexism" all you want, it falls flat when you demand that a male wears a "proper suit", keep his hair short, dont wear makeup, etcYou are merely simping
>>150585846Pretty sure that's part of why he wanted the role to begin with.It was basically a running trend from the 70s to the 90s that every suave leading man had to take at least one role where they broke their usual typecast as a means of proving their acting skill and it was usually a role where they'd take it entirelt because they liked the script>>150585046Again, MCD was largely picked for size reasons. Again, read this interview. He was already the most available rising star in terms of "big" actors at the time and when they ask him about why he did his own stunts for the film, it's because he actually dwarfed his own stunt double in terms of build. The race change was specifically made to get the guy with the most comic accurate physique in Hollywood at the time.>>150581609
>>150585846Apparently Tim Burton wanted it to look all white to give him a domino type look.
>>150579689Funny thing is that wasn’t even a thing until the Tim Burton movie, and only got adopted in the comics because they forgot he wasn’t rich old money in the comics.His family owned a bird store and weren’t anything important in Gotham.
>>150580812George Clooney as batmanTommy Lee Jones as two faceUma Thurman as Poison IvyI can go on. It's about who the audience will like and or who can embody the iconography of the character. Sometimes they'll just get a big name that has no business being that character and just redo the character based on if they worked through rule of cool.
>>150571713It's not bad until you notice, Batman isn't allowed to clobber female bad guys , so the action really suffers. So the more females the less he can fight
>>150583515Thats the reason the infamous line from Catwoman in the Batman movie sucks so much. She wouldn't have to take pot shots at white people 1. Because she's an oppurtunistic thief and 2. because she herself is white I don't get as mad at other people about that line but it's annoying.
>>150587772Well he does lay hands on Female Penguin and Catwoman in this show. But it still goes to original issue of why make the change? You're taking unnesecary liberties and distracting everyone. It's a bit like when Titans made Barbara Gordan an amputee instead of just paralyzed from the waist down. It raises more questions.
>>150584716And just because moorish rape babies, and conquered self hating mulatto rape babies speak spanish doesn't make them the original mehicans.Just makes them self hating trash. >>150587493No, because that would just be a faggot and no one wants that. >>150587909Friend, there are two kinds of white. Rich upper crust "real white" and snownigg3r mutts and Slavs. aka slaves. Most of you reading this.They laugh at you.
You know what really sucks about the changes? They have to rub it in the audience's face. This is the first shot you see of Penguin. Obviously if you hadn't heard about the gender swap you would be tricked into thinking it's the real version (yes the REAL version). The bext you see is>>150571693and it's meant to be a bombastic reveal. It's like when you have... I dunno Taskmaster and he's all suitted up head to toe and his voice is disguised and when he takes off the helmet all the hair falls out and oops its a woman actually! Or the first time Bendis wrote Spider-Man and he's costumed the entire story until the end when you get a full page panel and you're meant to go >huh? SPIDER-MAN is BLACK now??They know these changes are wrong so they draw as much attention to it as possible
>>150588107Forgot image.
>>150587493Don't insult Namor like that.
>>150587583You didn't answer my question
>>150588357That's because I'm not the anon you responded to. I dunno how he feels but MCD is a unique case in that there was a very specific reason for his casting.
>>150587493Marvel's Hercules, no?
>>150588369No matter the reason MCD and Billy Dee were casted, the entire point is that they were not casted due to the producers wanting to race swap a character for brownie points.>MCD because he had the right size and happened to be black>Billy Dee because he wanted the part, was popular enough and happened to be blackThey were not choices made to deliberately even the ethnicity or sexuality quotas of the characters.
>>150588421I mean, and some people on this board may disagree, but there are good times when a character is raceswapped for story purposes.Namely, Candyman off the top of my head. The race swap was meant to facilitate the change to America since the original story in Britain relied heavily on the Victorian attitudes around nobility. If Candyman were still white in an American context, his backstory would make significantly less sense since he'd be viewed as a more "self-made" man.So it's rare but it happens
>>150576041Golden Age
Hope Montoya x Harlem lasts. Like the star crossed lovers thing.
>>150571713>>150576041different for the sake of being differentwants to keep itself in the early 20th century but whats even the point of that when they revise what that time was even like
>>150571693When i watched that episode, the character herself seemed fine to me… i mean the episode was boring and the never bothered beyond the third episode since it failed gaining my interest, but at least there was some character in there and she was clearly cruel and evil with how she killed her son and cared so little afterward.But the Irl justification for the change was stupid as fuck. I would’ve understand if it was just because they wanted to do something else with the penguin + some writer’s fetish.But the reason being “batman has not enough female villains” is stupid, considering there is a whole list of female villains they could’ve adapted and reworked instead
>>150589186Isn't that why Batwoman exists? Or Huntress?
>>150571693Eh. I don't watch that show anyway.
>>150572298Oswald being a fancy socialite in the light but secretly running Gotham's underground is the parallel
>>150580572The Batman 04 was better than it looked
>>150587909Its annoying because they have to completely change the character in order to utilize that line
>>150583515Another Zsaslav w.
>>150578268Batman, the World's Greatest Detective, spends his time just lazily following around Renee Montoya (the worst Question, bring back Vic Sage you cowards) and copying her homework instead of doing any investigating or detective work himself. That alone makes it a dogshit Batman adaptation, I don't care about batwank power scaling or making sure he wins every fight or solos darkseid or whatever garbage, but DC literally stands for Detective Comics and Batman is supposed to be THE Detective......and in this show he's not one at all.
>>150581609he also wore the comic accurate suit and even had a cane. yeah he's a black guy but look at this motherfucker's HANDS and tell me that's not Kingpin, the guy who fucking manhandles Spider-Man and Daredevil just because he's large and in charge.speaking of stuff he was in I liked him in The Finder, sucks he died so young
>>150587493that's literally herc and nobody gives a shit
>>150591798Why did they turn her into a lumberjane? Being lesbian is one thing but they went full bulldyke with this. Also severely missed oppurtunity to do a sideplot with Harvey Dent having a crush on her. Anyone remember that? I think it was in No Man's Land
>>150591798I liked her as the question pre-nu52 but that was because they worked her up to that point, developed a relationship with Vic and everything. The last couple of comics were kinda meh, I don't think the plot they had going was all that interesting but I blame that on the writers and it could have turned around eventually.I don't know what her deal is now, I lost track after so many crises. I know she's the question again but I don't know why or how.
>she was the sameThere was nothing Penguin about this character. She didn't have the inferiority complex or the freakishness and arguably, not even the sophisticated and well-read behavior that charactirize the Penguin. She was basically Ma Gunn or Mabel Mhurder with some cheap Penguin paraphernalia vomitted all over her just so we recognized it and clapped. There was something just so insencere about her, Penguin would have never had fucking children for God's sake. There's been some good stories with mob boss Penguin but I can't help but feel that take on the character has eroded him into just an ugly, quirky gangster.Clayface and the Vampire girl were the only rogues that I felt came off well executed in this show. Their episodes weren't perfect but you could feel a modicum of trying.
>>150571693>Why did the alternate universe do something differentSome of you people are so painfully retarded
I seriously can't believe all this DEI faggotry killed all hype for this show, like it's not even funny.
>>150571693Oswalda pays thugs to rape her; her favorite is The Crooc.
>>150592666>vampire girlIronically just a revamped script from BTAS and an aged down Nocturna
>>150571693I dont understand why anon is mad about shit happening in one single media of something they like. Just consider it a shit-stain in a media you otherwise enjoy and be done with it. Its not like you can do shit against it.Man this board would be a desert if anons realized they can't do shit against things. We're nothing.
>>150571693The race and gender swapping is just there to distract you from the fact that the show just plain sucks.
>>150579329Timm actually went out of his way to say they aren’t pairing Bruce with Barbara this time.
>>150571693Just like the Snyderverse was built on the backs of pajeets, the Gunnverse is built off the broccolitops of mexican zoomers.
>>150594877This is the Reevesverse considering he directed the first couple episides
>>150580497>Timm is the reason Harley is a non villain now.Nope. In Batman: The Adventures Continue, by Dini and Alan Burnett, Harley felt horrible about Joker torturing Jason Todd and snitched on him to Batman. She spends the rest of the comic being a sympathetic non-villain and always paired with Ivy. Also, the comic was very mediocre. Stop sucking Dino’s cock just because Timm’s a hack.
Easily the weakest two-face ever put to screen even Nolan tried harder.
Welcome to anything comic book related. Multiverse, gender swap, race swap, mirrored versions, alternate timelines, what if scenarios, dozens of distinct variations of the same character. It doesn't make any sense to complain at this point. Some people will get a boner from this, an excuse for a new redesign, a new version of the character, new interactions, it's whatever. Is it entertaining is the question.
>>150595585no it's not
>>150595690Then that's the only issue.
>>150571693This one didn't bother me, lesbianism in public and black people having big important jobs without a lot of backlash did, but only because of the setting in which the cartoon technically takes place.Racism and homophobia is such a tired trope, even for virgins and incels.
>>150571693I don't really get the rage over this rendition of then Penguin. I feel like DC usually plays fast and loose with reinterpretations and "penguin but a lady" might be one of the most tame in the whole show.
>>150596305It was just very underwhelming, like the show as a whole. Maybe if it was crazy entertaining or out there, like this show's weird ass Harley, which was also underwhelming but at least, something new. But Oswalda was just boring and pointless. I dunno what to tell you. To give another example, I've never liked Peyton Riley either, but pic related is neat and I don't mind how wildly different to her male counterpart she is, it's all in the execution.
>>150596643You know, this Harley's lack of porn and fetish art might be the biggest sign of this show not being nearly as popular as one might think.DeviantART used to literally shit itself if a character was prone to tying up, getting tied up, a spanking scene, a tickling scene, whatever, but this take on Harley who did literally all of that got like.. next to nothing. That was just so jarring to me considering what I've come to expect of the internet.
>>150572007You know, I once had sex with Eartha Kitt in an airplane bathroom.
>>150594861I hope he keeps his word, then.
>>150594861Okay well Dick is 20 years younger than her and I haven't seen any hint we might get Ted Kord... who else can get Babs?
