It’s no wonder zoomers complain about modern SpongeBobs expressive and exaggerated animation when this is the shit they’re raised on.
>>150620056because all cartoons are lore and slice of life toons, no time for being wacky.
>>150620065>loreThey don't come out anymore
>>150620056It works for those examples in cartoons then and SpongeBob because funny off-model faces are part of the show’s humor. The humor in Big City Greens and to a lesser extent Animaniacs is in the writing.
>>150620083Yesh but nu-Animaniacs and Big City Green shave shit humor
>>150620102That wasn't a comedy cartoon
>>150620056Didn't y'all niggas complain about OK KO and Steven Universe constant off model design in the show? Don't try to be hypocrite again, as you usual are.
>>150620111>>150620106Steven Universe's case
>>150620056I never liked Pen's work on Flapjack.
>>150620102I think they complained about that because it wasn’t done for action or comedy’s sake. It just looked like shit most of the time, to the point where it got ugly to look at. None of the characters even had consistent heights ffs, Peridot could be chest-high in one scene and taller than Steven in the next. It wasn’t being used for exaggerated expressions or fluid movement, just basic talky/walky slice of life stuff most of the time.
>>150620111There's a difference between your character changing size, shape and proportions between different scenes because of a lack of quality control and not allowing your character to emote
You only use two cartoons to represent all of old cartoons as if they were always drawing them off model, one of which is Ren and Stimpy.How to draw character guides have been around for decades. It's not just a recent thing.
>>150620102Steven would literally shrink during episodes due to inconsistent animation. Connie went from a normal child to chibi size. There's a big difference between free form expressions and just being bad at scale.
>>150620102SU's problem was that there were clearly boarders/board teams that worked better for certain moods, and they'd often end up doing something in what was supposed to be a serious episode. As the show went on they also increasingly didn't even try to adhere to model sheets at ALL, which infamously resulted in the 1.5 foot tall gorilla Stevens you'd frequently see later on.
>>150620065You're a retard who's too obsessed with his boogeyman to stop thinking about it for 5 seconds. What lore cartoons are coming out in 2025? The real answer is because on-model is easier for Korean slave laborers to animate.
>>150620056>It’s no wonder zoomers complain about modern SpongeBobs expressive and exaggerated animation when this is the shit they’re raised on.It's unmotivated animation and looks like shit. How many times do you need to be told before you stop shilling for paramount in every thread
>>150620269This board consistently makes arguments and threads with topics as though it's still the year 2015. It's actually fascinating to me, it's like people don't even register that an entire decade has passed. It'd be like people talking about Nirvana in the present tense in 2005.
>>150620102Not only SU, but AT as well.
>>150620298>unmotivated animationAnon it looks better and gives artists more freedom than 95% of modern cartoons. Oh well though why should I be surprised that /co/ users who never drew once in their life don’t know shit about how animation works.
>>150620307The issue of modern cartoons being incredibly on model didn’t really happen till after 2015, as other anons mentioned SU and AT still let board artists give their styles to characters. It’s also the fucking fact that beanmouth still won’t fucking die.
>>150620340It looks like shit and the artists suck.
>>150620399>the artists suckWow, calarts shit really does destroy one’s perception on cartoons, go back to watching your beanmouth shows zoomie.
>GOD I HATE CALARTS LORESHITOk here's a show that's neither calarts nor lorshit>UGH NO I HATE THAT TOO IT SUCKSStarting to think people just want to complain about anything on this board and there's no actual logical consistency to their arguments
>>150620102Having the characters look like this in episodes that are supposed to be intense is really jarring
>>150620440>>GOD I HATE CALARTS LORESHIT>>UGH NO I HATE THAT TOO IT SUCKSI'll take your argument seriously when you point out a single person in this thread who holds both of these opinions
>>150620102I just think SU looks like shit. Maybe it's just the character designs(the backgrounds look good).
>>150620440When did OP say anything about loreshit cartoons sucking? He just said modern shows in general look stiff and lifeless.
>>150620056Because all animation is outsourced to companies that needs their hands held tightly.
>>150620056>draw using construction and appeallol, lmao even
>>150620531This has nothing to do with the animation, the guides make it clear that they really don't want the characters to be off-model
What was the last time cartoons didn't regularly look stiff as fuck and show different expressions?
>>150620515NTA but that post didn't mention OP, it seems to be taking different lines of discussion in this thread and blending them into one strawman person
>>150620586The early to mid 00s. Watch an episode of golden age Spongebob, Courage the Cowardly Dog, or Ed Edd n Eddy and it's almost jarring compared to modern cartoons.
>>150620065The hatered for lore cartoons is weird. Like every other medium can have serial and episodic content exist simultaneously cause they occupy different niches and don't affect each other yet this anon is absolutely certain the existence of serialized caused all the episodic cartoons to cease existing which isn't how the cartoon industry works. Like SpongeBob is already dominant, isn't it enough you get as many episodes as you want? Why do you want to force everyone else to watch past seasons 1-3?
>>150620423>>150620482The defenders of soulless corposlop modern SpongeBob are autistic manchildren.
>>150620586There have been some modern shows that allow for more cartoony animation and allow for board artists styles, look at Paul Rudish Mickey for exampleAaron Springer is also a prominent board artist, he’s the guy that usually draws Mickey with no visible mouth
Alright then, you faggots draw something then.
>>150620640Says the zoomer who probably likes beanmouth shows, which is literally the most corporate soulless artstyle ever that’s only loved by executives and forced onto all new shows.
The issue is that autistic people online will point out every inconsistency after watching TV Shows or movies frame by frame. This did not happen When cartoons first started.
>>150620102>it's just the board artist's style brooooooNo, it just looked stupid and retarded most of the time. Let's not even get into Peridot's height.
>>150620601Heck even early beanmouth shows had expressive animation, look at season one of Adventure Time for example, though as time went on all beanblob shows became less expressive
>>150620726Pen banned it after season 1 because he didn't like them. He likes the dot eyes. Fun fact: When Pen was pitching it to Nick, they asked him to change the dot eyes and Pen flatly refused lmao.
>>150620737>Pen banned it after season 1 because he didn't like them.The creator of Gumball did the same with his show. No real off-model allowed.
>>150620772Gumballs new faces are "haha look at this funny picture or pop culture reference" rather than actually stretching or bending a model sheet like they did in season one.
>>150620056>spumtard thread
>>150620726Steven Universe season one was also a lot more expressive, I feel like a lot of people forget that Rebecca Sugars artstyle (more visible in her older stuff) was pretty Spumco influenced to the point where even John K complimented it years before SU.
>>150620679You call nu Bob expressive yet It has absolutely no perspective or angle changes. Everything is happening on a flat 2D plain which creates no mood or atmosphere and makes the show extremely static feeling. Multiple aspects have to come together for something to be expressive beyond surface level.
>>150620867Stfu fagtard
>>150620056This image is very misleading.
>>150620967Seething autist
It's not this group of audience complaining or another. The problem is the execs who let the audience dictate studio policy to them. The audience are all idiots. They are waiting for you to tell them what's cool. Steve Jobs was right about everything, and the 360 on success at Apple with his return and departure prove it.
>>150621021Cope
>>150620939>>150620963I've not watched NuBob but I don't think the solution is more perspective shots, at least arbitrarily. There are cartoons whose value come from making animators' lives miserable. Flat, left-to-right staging lets the animator expressive himself unencumbered, without the need to constantly check vanishing points.I don't suggest cartoons should all be staged like Wes Anderson, just pedantically pointing out constant over-the-shoulder shots and worms eye views don't equal quality animation, rather it tends to subdue it. They should be used sparingly, so the pencil mileage primarily goes into the acting, not correcting volumes.
>>150620723>Steven goes to Garnet's waist to slowly shrinking to her thigh, then in the second to last scene he's up to her fucking calves
>>150620056because if they go off model, autistic retards online will complain that animators can't draw.
>>150621308>autistic retards online will complainThis is unavoidable
>>150621308Shut up Trooniversefag
>>150621320I am that anon, and I also don't like beanslop. One is capable of containing multitudes.
>>150620056>Why are modern cartoonists obsessed with being so aggressively on model?Animation is a 100 year old industry at this point. Deviation from the design is a defect that is capitalism optimizes out.. That's how you get your 6 sigmas. Do you honestly think a mass market product should be the vehicle of self expression?
>>150620111Isn't there one autist anon that keep spamming OP thread about Enid with her thighs being impossible big?
>>150621415That was years ago.
>>150621415It's kinda funny
>>150620967Gtfo>>150621063Arrest
>>150621537Damn, that art for Kyle is fucking rad. Pendleton's art looks like something a 3rd grader in art class would make. Kek.
Corporations are greedy and obsessed with money, that's why they have to make bad shows that lose money instead of popular shows that make money. It's called capitalism.
>>150620056Because it's done on computers and you don't have to use so much man power if you keep it on model and have everyone expect that.
>>150621537Kys tranny
>>150622202It's fucking hillarious how he loves and defends Adventure Time at anytime, but hates Steven Universe, they are the same fucking show. >>150621320
>>150622037You first granny
>>150620102SU wanted to be a magical girl (boy) action cartoon with singing, dancing and lore, being off model like it's Ren and Stimpy or Spongebob isn't going to mesh wellAnd SU's off-model moments felt more like lazy errors rather than deliberate attempts to play with the medium. Steven and Peridot actively shrinking isn't "off-model", it's Rebecca Sugar not keeping her artists in line
>>150620818Remember, there's one show that have over 150 wacky faces in ONE single episode.
>>150621091
>>150622501
>>150622518
>>150620056Happened to music too with auto tune used to keep a perfect pitch, when the best music of back then was full of “imperfections” and no one seemed to care. Too many nerds worrying about the wrong things in art
>>150622501>>150622518>>150622533Fuck, there's even model sheets for the staging!For clarification, I would call picrel's perspective straight-on as far as the animator's concerned (ignore the stylized "flat" colour) but still accomplishes a sense of size and depth through the skill of the layout artist without making life hell for the animator.
>>150620056>Three identical drawings>No No YesNo wonder these shows are all so bland and soulless
>>150622878I mean this is a pretty weird thing to specifically point out anyway. Like the idea that you can't have a character look shocked or making an expression because it hurts the clarity? Don't completely get this one. Unless it's LITERALLY referring to artists that are so lazy/stupid that they only draw 1 talking expression to represent an entire conversation. But I can't even believe someone that dumb exists.
>>150622546Stfu
>>150622202Stop projecting
>>150622782It's not a model sheet for staging. It's simply contextual advice written down by the visual consultant.
>>150622222>they are the same fucking showWrong you faggot
>>150622237Obsessed faggot
>>150623261I just dislike your faggotry
>>150623566You are a disingenuous fag
>>150620772season 1 style is the best the oval eyes and tiny cute mouths i hate the one they stuck with
>>150623816Stop talking about you
>>150621091artists should stop being afraid of perspective have shots look dynamic because it looks cool
>>150621537The final product looks like shit though
>>150623715>>150623732>>150623816>>150623852you two need to stop arguing and fuck already
>>150623963i'm talking about gumball bwothe earlier seasons style is way better and looked way more appealing
>>150623018Gtfo>>150623034Stop deflecting
>>150623062Rent free sperg
>>150623047I know, but what it suggests stifles the acting capabilities of the animator unless he's James Baxter or whoever that can both juggle perspective and think creatively. Most animators can only do either without being miserable, not both. Directors' insistence on "dramatic staging" don't have confidence in their animators.
>>150620056Because going off model then was to be expressive.Being off model or butt fucking ugly and simple is the standard now.
>>150624558Hey fag, early AT and Clarence are wacky (and SU can be considered an unitentional comedy)
>>150620869rebecca sugar before she got a renpill withdrawal
>>150620102Steven Universe had too little adherence to model. Some characters just randomly look completely different, and that's before getting into the height issues. There's letting your artists shine and then there's letting them shit on the floor, and Sugar let them shit on the floor
>>150624558Canada cartoons still use UPA, but not America.
>>150622222>>150623050SAME SHOW???
>>150623948You don't notice how every time there's a sakooga perspective shot, the acting of the characters goes to hell? The drawings always end up soft and mushy because the animator stops caring about the character, and just wants the result to be smooth to please the egomaniacs above.
>>150624557See, this is the thing that I don't necessarily understand when discussing Western animation. People here will forever sing the praises of character expression, character animation, acting, and readability, etc. But when you suggest that animation should take staging ideas and grammar that has existing in filmmaking for like 100 years, that's suddenly the point where people check out, for some reason. Right? Like the idea of suggesting that animation is the sum of all its parts, not just character animation, is profoundly alienating and confusing. I'm not sure if you realize this, but utilizing layouts to create something visually-interesting is essentially a normal starting point in Japan, not character animation. And even when expression is important in Japan... So? They just do it anyway. And even in a thread such as this, where the whole conceit is that we're supposed to hold corporate cheapness in disdain, and off-model is good, etc, you will get people will are shocked and appalled by the idea of proposing something that looks like flat medium shots for 22-minutes. And not only that, but there's almost a visceral and active disdain against it. The insinuation is that a crutch or invalid. Just because. So, you have these methods to facilitate a really deep and interesting art-form, but, no, people will just say it's too hard or a crutch. I don't fully understand it, but whatever. Also, I get to be the first East vs. West warrior in this thread (yippee!), so I guess just disregard everything I wrote.
>>150625291I get you, my disdain is towards perspective animation that wastes animators' time and energy just so the director can be respected. There is a time and place for heightened camera angles.It takes a talented layout artist to accomplish it using contrasts in scale and strong negative space (look at Maurice Noble, and how on his bg layouts Chuck Jones's character layouts are still relatively "straight"). Pic rel is an example of a beautiful layout with a straight-on acting area. This isn't to be cheap, it's to maximize the quality of what a director prioritizes; and these are ultimately character cartoons.Mention of "sakooga" wasn't strictly a dig at anime, rather Western animation's interpretation of it. I'm also being pragmatic; animators that can both fulfil Western audiences demand for nuanced acting (anime is more stylized) while also making it fit in perspective is rare.
>>150625291>>150625486Double posting, but here's an example of a well deserved perspective shot. The animation here doesn't need to concern itself with acting, and all the animator's energy can be devoted to getting the sense of weight, gravity and dread informed by the layout and direction.
>>150620111You get absolutely nothing of value when you draw characters designed like Steven off-model. They aren't doing it to make funny drawings, they're doing it because they're lazy and untalented.If you see someone say just the words "Ren Hoek off-model" you know it's going to be a drawing someone wanted to make and it's going to be amusing.
>mods delete a bunch of posts seemingly at random while they let namefags still roamThe current state of /co/
Someone got memoryholed.
>>150620056Bruh, just because I was born in 2000 and grew up on Steven Universe and Big City Greens doesn't mean my opinions are any less valid.
>>150625781Any adult who watches Big City Greens is a hyper autist who’s opinions mean nothing
>>150625781You are born closer to Wii U than NES.
>>150625605
>>150625875Another good example of perspective animation that isn't masochistic and for the purpose of entertainment. It's an action shot where expression/acting isn't hugely important. One-point perspective is relatively simple to master but can be powerful used well (take Kubrick for instance). The animator wisely takes advantage of it using foreshortening, all while not killing himself.
>>150625984*and IS for the purpose of entertainment. Awkward grammar there.Before someone brings up the clip of Dream Walking with the girders, again that's purely technical showmanship of relatively simple one point perspective, and not the insane realism dolly camera nonsense WHILE characters are expected to emote and talk.
>>150622501>>150622518>>150622533Those are all great lessons, good stuff
>>150620056That's literally not true
>>150625828the wii u is as old now as the nes was in 2000
>>150620056everyone saw OK KO and other calart shit and 360'd
>>150620939ThisPerspective doesn't need to be some complex animated thing either, it can be used to make an otherwise boring, lifeless scene more interesting or pleasing to look atIt's something i really hate about western cartoons where so many refuse to make use of something as simple as two point perspective for a sceneJust slop made for a deadline and to appeal to writers and show runners so they can get their epic "well written" jokes across
>>150620056Why are modern smut artists obsessed with NOT being on model?
>>150627796Cause it doesn't matter
>>150625694They were fags
>>150620056Bump
>>150620056Is that a bad thing?
>>150629407Yes
>>150620056They aren’t though.
>>150620939NuBob does have occasional shots that play around with perspective, but they’re like once or twice per episode, as much as I like NuBobs animation it’s stuff like this that makes me prefer the style of the classic seasons.I don’t think NuBobs animation is the most fitting style for the show but hey if it lets artists actually have fun on their jobs let them go for it.
>>150620056You're doing something wrong when the 'No!' versions are more expressive and full of life.
>>150629407The fact that you have to ask that in the first place just shows how braindead /co/ users are when it comes to animation.
>>150627521>OK KOSay what you want about that show but at least the creator respects animation as a medium rather than focusing on only Nushit, same can’t be said about other beanmouth creators
>>150620056That's literally the fault of the industry. They will pick what's hip with the viewer and stick with it. Sorry, that's how the system works.Don't blame the ones working for the system; blame the ones in charge of the system.
>>150632362>They will pick what's hip with the viewerhave you seen viewership numbers recently
>>150620111>Didn't y'all niggas complain about OK KO and Steven Universe constant off model design in the show?>Don't try to be hypocrite again, as you usual are./threadOP is a dumb brainlet
>>150620133>moving goalpost
>>150620056this is what happens when you let today's artists do what they want without guidelines
>>150620723It would have cost $500 to fix this
>>150632824how is that moving goalpost retardthat's literally what the OP is showing and talking about
>>150632850wow, a wholle $500? maybe you should make sure such an obvious scaling mistake doesn't happen in the first place then
>>150632850Or correct it during the boarding process, but that would mean Rebecca would need to act like a boss, and not the crew's quirky, ukulele playing queer friend.
>>150632730They don't care, as long as it still remains widespread, it's the only thing in their mind and they'll still use it.
>>150621415What thread though. And that autist anon still alive?
>>150632834When you have designs that drab it's funny to let animators degrade it. Nick Cross's scenes in OTGW were a highlight because of the inconsistency.
>>150620056Don't be obsessed by this, yo.
>>150620056Can we at least don't be obsessed by this, though.
