So, what was the message of this show? That if you’ve done bad things in the past, you’ll always do bad things in the present and in the future? That there’s literally no hope for you making amends, that you will always be a bad influence on others, and should just be endlessly punished for the rest of your life?Each season is by and large different, but if you’ve trim it down to its core, the creator and writers kept propping up Bojack into improving himself at the end of each season, only to go back to his season 1 personality and keep fucking his chances of ever righting his past wrongs.
>>150655841Maybe it’s because he’s not trying to make amends from his heart and is only doing so to make himself feel better?
>>150655841>So, what was the message of this show? Don't make me say it.
>>150655841The moral is "celebrities are bad" don't think so deeply about it.
>>150655841Its a Greek tragedy in the sense that its protagonist is the root cause of his own undoing. You're right in stating they keep propping up Bojack into possibly evolving into a better person overall, but it's ultimately his own misgivings about himself that leads him to his own destruction. Bojack is a man who is incapable of feeling good about himself, in any capacity. Self-loathing is baked into his very soul, and the true tragedy is Bojack's unwillingness to even acknowledge that fact. As such, any time he's approaching anything resembling a "better version" of himself, he self-sabotages out of a sense of misplaced guilt/shame. He's a man who truly believes, in his heart of hearts, that he is an unworthy, unlovable piece of shit, and he acts accordingly.If anything can be taken from his story, its to just be nicer to yourself at the end of the day. Acknowledge your own failings, your own humanity, and work from there
>>150655866You have a strange way of thinking. The one undeniable truth is that helping people and correcting mistakes will always feel self-gratifying, to show hostility towards people feeling good about doing good, when it’s literally in our nature to feel that way, is pretty fucking strange.By the end of the show, I can’t really defend Bojack on anything he did, but how should the viewers interpret the overall progression of the series? That no one is truly honest? That one sin forever tarnishes a person and curses them into self-sabotaging themselves for the rest of their lives? Way I see it, the writers saw Breaking Bad and the Sopranos, loved the deconstruction of the protagonists becoming worse and worse versions of themselves, and decided the writing beats for career criminals could also be applied to a washed-up celebrity.
>>150655992say it then, coward.
>>150656024>That one sin forever tarnishes a person and curses them into self-sabotaging themselves for the rest of their lives?If you absolutely refuse to learn from said mistakes? Abso-fucking-loutely
>>150656005>you are more talked about than I am>therefore you are a bad person
>>150655841It's a character study. The message is "Bojack keeps falling backwards into old bad habits because he's psychologically fucked to the point that he can't progress past them."
>>150656006A surprisingly mature take on BoJack Horseman. You don't see those very often here
>>150655841>So, what was the message of this show?The message is that they wanted to keep making more seasons and if Bojack meaningfully changed, learned his lesson, or fixed his life in any way, they couldn't retread the same handful of depression and self-destruction jokes they established in season 1.
Normal words but a horse guy!
>>150656006I understand what you’re saying, but the show just doesn’t feel that deep. I’m convinced that the writers just found reformed Bojack to be boring to write, so they kept him around as a destructive asshole so they can keep making more and more season until they were told (or decided) to wrap it up.
>>150655841The intended message is that the mentally ill are horrible and destined to rape
>>150656530>but the show just doesn’t feel that deepthe show is subtle as swinging a bag of bricks in a porcelain store, there's nothing seemingly deep about it
>>150656631then why does everyone keep treating it like it’s subversive?
>>150656669never ever heard someone call Bojack subversive, of all things
>>150656993People keep lumping it with Breaking Bad and Sopranos, it’s fucking weird
In the hands of a compentent male writing team, like the Breaking Bad and Sorpranos writers, the themes would have worked better. Bojac's writers were blue-haired man-hating SJws and male feminists who see men as the ultimate evil in the world and identify with Diane. Did you really expect the people who wrote things like "america hates women more than it loves guns" to be able to wrtite a character like bojack with nuance?
>>150655841The message was don’t move to California.
>>150655841Message meaning nothing if the writers/creators go out of there way to fuck over the mc. Then any lessons, development or message is worthless.
>>150656530If Bojack actually reformed, the show would be over. The narrative isnt a journey of someone overcoming thier insecurities, it's an examination of what happens when one allows those insecurities to dominate all aspects of one's own life.
>>150657238>nothing bad can ever happen to anyone, ever, because reasonsPraying for you, anon. Truly I am
>>150657182>unironically typing out SJWs in 2025are you mentally stuck in 2015?
>>150657293If what you said is actually true and what the writers were thinking, why bother with the typical season-end reform attempts and the final season’s beginning? I’m still not convinced.
>>150655841The show kept on going for a few more seasons than necessary. Also le #metoo killed a lot of where the show wanted to go. Bojack couldn't redeem himself since he's a ...LE MANand Princess Carolyn was being set up to be portrayed as a sexual predator when she was dating her younger employee
>>150655841>what was the message of this shownormal words
I always thought the end of season 2 when Diane goes to the war country was just about her getting the chance she wanted to "do something important" and failing completely because it was too frightening and unpleasent for her, but I'm not sure that's what the show was getting at.
>>150657940I think with Diane she can't handle the fact people can move on from the darkest parts of reality and after that she wants to use her writing to inspire people
>>150657384Every show does that. Its called "Our next season is *not* a garuntee so lets end on a high note if at all possible just in case." It's serialized fiction, honestly not sure what you're expecting here
>>150657361Bojack Horseman came out in 2014.Are you mentally retarded?
>>150658023The fuck are you talking about its not that ol->premiere date: August 22, 2014ffffFuck me, how the hell did that happen?
>>150655841Fictional characters make bad choices and suffer so that you don’t have to. Just be better, it’s your life.
>>150655841Keep trying everyday to do better, and if you fail, get back on the horse.
>>150657964>she can't handle the fact people can move on from the darkest parts of realityit was more like "My Past Defines Me" type of deal
>>150656172Such is the necessary evil of a sitcom. But I agree with the Greek Tragedy angle too
>>150655841it doesn't matter if you're sorry if you don't change
>>150658963The line from Todd hits pretty hard. After a while you just can't make excuses anymore.
>>150655841Never stick your horsecock in crazy.
>>150659223Man her death was so sad, when she was actually doing well until Bojack called. Self loathing addicts who enable/tempt recovering addicts are actual scum
>>150656006I think there is also a theme of being defined by his conditions. I think we see him heal in half-measures throughout the show as he atones for various minor things, but the only thing that sets him on the path to healing that we see at the end of the show is when he's forced to undo his core defining characteristic. Once he loses his wealth, status, riches, and all he has are the people around him, strained as those relationships may be, is he finally free to be himself.So I do think he does finally make a change, and it doesn't have the sort of predestined stuff going on that a greek tragedy would.
>>150659092
>>150659318How did his wealth prevent him from "being himself"?
>>150658325Why are you surprised? The first season has the old Netflix logo and everything. This shit is ANCIENT
>>150656006>protagonist is the root cause of his own undoingNo, it was the fucking writers.>>150656171You are both pretentious idiots.>Verification is not required.
>>150655841The original message was that you can't step outside of your own life to fix it. It's an arduous process that must be consciously worked towards with every decision you make. Things change, but they typically only change for the better if you work at it.That got muddled because a guy the showrunners personally disliked (Weinstein I think?) said they liked the show and they scrapped Bojack's arc to make him worse so the wrong people wouldn't like him.
>>150659422The most surefire way to destroy a man is to give him everything he's ever wanted. Bojack had the kind of money that let him coast through life with no worries, and that itself was the problem. He had nothing but time, time he could spend either focusing on himself and his issues, or just go on another bender because fuck it I have like six coke dealers on speed dial and money to burn LET'S FUCKING GOOOOOOO.Material wealth only does so much to quell the soul, and at a certain point it becomes a prison in and of itself
>>150661820Let's hear your two cents then, anon.
well the point isBACK IN THE 90S I WAS ON A VERY FAMOUS TV SHOW
>>150661995The fact that you need my "two cents" proves what I said. There is a reason they say "brevity is the soul of wit".
>>150655841>So, what was the message of this show? That if you’ve done bad things in the past, you’ll always do bad things in the present and in the future? That there’s literally no hope for you making amends, that you will always be a bad influence on others, and should just be endlessly punished for the rest of your life?Yes, so you might as well keep doubling down until you become your worst possible self.
>>150659410>make a show about how life isn't a sitcom, actions have consequences, ect>make a character whose actions hurts people and gets away with it every time>he's not even funny
>>150655841>So, what was the message of this show?I addressed this before. Bojack Horseman is about cutting "toxic" people from your life especially family. Most relationships aren't one-sided. There are times when you have to cut someone off but nobody said that you have to be like the Giving Tree. You can't keep looking at relationships like transactions. It might be a good idea to just cut people off in the land of pedos and drugs but you don't need to coddle to not abandon them.
>>150662373I'd buy this.It's also a pretty accurate depiction of addiction, in spite of the inherent cartoonyness of it. People are complaining "why does he keep backsliding?" but that's how addiction works, you watch people you love do stupid shit, get better for a little while, fuck up, backslide, rinse, repeat.
>>150655841are you familiar with the concept of "character study" anon
>>150656172They knew the last season was their last. And even though it was trending towards Bojack heading down a better path, still wrapped it up by saying he never truly changes
>>150655841It’s that addiction is a lifelong struggle and it doesn’t get the Hollywood ending most movies and tv shows imply. I think this was made abundantly clear in the final episode.
>>150656171Is Diane going to be the female version of Elvis in that women will only cosplay the fat version of her?
>>150655841Incredible how one Family Guy gag completely killed this.
>>150662855Well yeah, Fat Diane has become the yass queen body positivity model for many people where proof taking your meds will solve everything and you shouldn't worry about being fat because meds= happy and you're bucking the patriarchy.
>>150655841>So, what was the message of this show? Are you kidding? Did you watch the show? It fucking beats you over the head with its message over and over and over:Life is not a sitcom that has nice and neat closure, emotional revelations don't actually fix the problems they reveal (it takes hard work), there is no magic bullet that will "fix everything" for anyone.Bojack never went back to his season 1 personality, he had a horrific relapse into drug abuse.I can't help but see people whining that Bojack doesn't get clean sitcom redemption as complete morons incapable of anything but living vicariously through the biggest asshole on-screen.
>>150655841I cringe to think how much I enjoyed this show but at least I saw it for what it was after series 4. Series 5 and 6 were so retarded.
Wojak Chudman
>>150662990>I can't help but see people whining that Bojack doesn't get clean sitcom redemption as complete morons incapable of anything but living vicariously through the biggest asshole on-screen.That is nothing but a stupid ad hominem. BoJack was sabotaged by the writers while all the other assholes in the show got their sitcom endings.
>>150659313>>150662405>>150662851BoJack's use of drugs only mattered when the writters needed it. Rest of the time he doesn't act like a junkie, being more sane than others around him, and many times they remember he is a horse and can't even get drunk.>>150657238This.
>>150657314Take your strawman and shove it.
>>150663357>t. complete moron incapable of anything but living vicariously through the biggest asshole on-screen.
>>150655841Normal words but a horse guy
>>150663411That could be true and it wouldn't make what I said less valid nor you less of a worthless imbecile.>Verification is not required.
>>150663423>me being a moron that completely missed the obvious themes of the show doesn't make what I said less valid!Of course it doesYou'd understand if you weren't a moron
>>150663430The irony eludes you.
>>150655841>Would you elaborate on that?>No.If you've watched six seasons of a show and have no idea what it's about, asking 4chan to give you a one-line soundbite is not going to improve your comprehension any.
>>150663453That's not what irony is
>>150659223You can't tell me what to do
>>150655841Long Story Short is infinitely more compelling because it's not about some rich celebrity going "woe is me" for 6 seasons straight
>>150656257>>150657858>>150662870>>150663421God you guys cling to that shitty meme like a life raft. >Inb4 UR TRIGGERED AND OFFENDED LOL I TRIGGERED U SO HARD No. It's just a bad joke. Like a lot of the bad jokes Family Guy tells. A joke can be not funny without 'triggering' people. You will just prove my point if you reply that way. Family Guy fans may be the most pathetic slop-defending cartoon fans on the board.>>150655841Maybe the show doesn't have one and it's just telling a guy's story.
>>150656006>they keep propping up Bojack into possibly evolving into a better person overalldid you not watch season 5 where they purposefully remake bojack into an irredeemable character because the creator is a petty leftist?
>>150664892Bojack wasn't irredeemable, he was irredeemed. Not every story in all of creation is attacking your personal insecurities.
>>150655841Nobody cares about Wojak Redditman, it’s a shitty stiffly animated millennial sitcom but "oh mah god, it sewious?!?111", there’s no reason for this shit to be animated or have the main character be a horse, funny how Redditards mald over the "normal words but a horse guy" saying but it literally applies to this show cause there’s no damn reason for the main character to be a fucking horse.
>>150664943>penny suddenly not fine with what happenedthat was a totally normal character development
>>150665008>Nobody cares about Wojak RedditmanIt was a highly rated show, so that's obviously not true. Why feel the need to frame your personal opinion as the opinion of everyone, everywhere? Do you think your opinion isn't valid unless everyone agrees with you?
>>150662870Really iconic downfallhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nGAWoAAz8M
>>150655841>So, what was the message of this show?"I'm depressed and I hate myself, I will make a cartoon about how much I hate myself and maybe other people who hate themselves will think it's brilliant"
>>150665067When did Arnett mean Weinstein? Was it between seasons 2 and 3 or are you just full of shit?
>>150665092>highly ratedNo shit that’s the case when normies watch this garbage, anon, I don’t care if it’s "deep and serious", it’s just another shitty adult animated sitcom with a shitty adult animated artstyle geared towards normies that does nothing but prove to the higher ups that adult animation should only have cheap artstyles rather than being cartoonist-driven.People act like it’s "expanding the medium of adult animation", really? Than how come all adult cartoons still look like shit when this show was around for 10 years? It expanded animation the same way safe edgy shit like Gravity Falls did, it only helped writerslop and taught people to cheap out with their artstyles.
>>150665220>it only helped writerslopWhat the hell is 'writerslop'? Even in the giant sea of bullshit 4chan buzzwords I don't think I've ever seen one that nonsensical. Are you saying the writing is just bad? If you think that just say you don't like the writing. We don't need more lame lingo.
>>150662023>quotes a Shakespeare line entirely out of context that undermines its original meaning without a shred of irony I accept your concession and bid you a game well played, sir.
>>150665220>No shit that’s the case when normies watch this garbageSo why did you say nobody cares about it? You've done a complete 180. Do you just say any shit that comes into your head that's in line with your feelings or what?
>>150663453Gotta be 18 to post here, buckaroo
>>150665067>a dumbass teenager nearly makes a dumbass mistake and realizes after the fact what an actual dumbass mistake she nearly madeFilm at 11
>>150664059>Normal words, but a Jew guy!
>>150665220>TAKE ME SERIOUSLY!>I AM AN ADULT AND I DEMAND RESPECT AS SUCH!>I AM VERY MATURE!This is you. This is what you sound like.
>>150665297>blames her mistake on others>makes blaming her mistake on others the central aspect of her personalityThis actually is realistic, unfortunately.
>>150665391Children get to blame the adults in their lives for their mistakes to some extent because they're just stupid kids. It's a "no bad dogs, just bad owners" kind of thing. But didn't Penny just move on until Bojack started stalking her? DESU I don't remember this show very well
>>150665427She moved on until the old timey reporter chick showed up following the bread crumbs that was leading to Bojack's ultimate downfall.
>>150664458I will never watch the "Normal Words But a Horse Guy" show because it looks gay as fuck>ugh, being rich and famous is so hard!Fuck off
>>150665536Extremely reductive, presumptuous, and silly way to look at art, but whatever.
>>150661960I don't know if I'd go so far as to say "having everything you want will destroy you", because there are characters in that show who are fulfilled yet who haven't been destroyed. I think it's more that the endless pursuit of money makes one empty, told from the perspective of a hollywood actor who made it big and kept chasing that high.
>>150665536Bojack was a cunt though. The whole show is about what a cunt he is.
>>150665248Writerslop shows are cartoons that look like shit and priorities their writing over their animation, a good cartoon needs both good writing and good animation, but ever since shit like Adventure Time and Family Guy were released people have made their cartoons look as cheap and shit as possible because "uh akshally le writing is good", all those new loreshit shows like DisneyTVA and Netflix slop and all those shitty adult animated sitcoms ESPECIALLY (they’re literally ran by hack comedians rather than actual cartoonist) both taught execs new ways to cut costs and make cartoons look like garbage, despite the fact that a visual medium such as animation should always look good.
>>150665554>artlol
>>150665568Bojack doesn't care about money. He's very careless with it, actually.
>>150665612>priorities their writing over their animationThat's a good thing though. I'd rather have a show with great writing and less exciting animation than vice versa. I know Bojack isn't the prettiest show but it has some good visual moments. It doesn't have to be a Magritte level masterpiece to be a good show>"uh akshally le writing is good"Complaining about a show wanting quality writing...This may be the lowest I have ever seen. Plus isn't a show having good writing literally the opposite of what 'slop' is? Slop implies low quality and you're defining it as shows that priorities the writing. I'm gonna go ahead and inb4 either 'le heckin' or a onions wojack will be your next response.
>>150665633Yes. It is art. You enjoying it or not doesn't not change it being art. There is plenty of garbage cartoons I hate and they are still art. My enjoyment level of a piece of media does not change whether or not it counts as art.
>>150665612It's really quite cute how you think the reason TV animation is cheap and bad is because of those stuck-up writers.
>>150665612>he thinks shows about talking horse people and adventure stories targeted at actual, literal children should look like they were animated by goddamn Rembrandt Anon......
>>150665683Define "art", anon.
>>150665662Anon you seriously want all cartoons to look like crap? Cartoons are a visual medium, but oh well it’s clear you /co/tards consume beanmouth slop and see that as the gold standard seeing that you love Rebecca Boogers gay rock show. I never said shows should have bad writing, can you not read me when I said that cartoons need both good writing and good animation? Cartoons are in the worst state they’ve been in since the 80’s and it’s all cause of tards like you that think appealing visuals don’t matter.>I know Bojack isn't the prettiest show but it has some good visual moments.It’s a Netflix show that uses cheap AF rigged animation, all of it looks like shit, go back to R*edit with your retarded opinions.
>>150665723A piece of media that gets an emotional response from people. I'm already preparing myself for your list of "Does [x] count as art?" questions. You better make the selections interesting.
>>150665729>/co/tards consume beanmouth slop Rebecca Boogers gay rock go back to R*editis this art?
>>150665698I never said that, fag, I said that said writers and artists in charge of the cheap shows from the early 2010’s have influenced executives to beanmouth all new shows cause they’re still trying to capture the success of those shows from years ago, they aren’t giving them the budget to look good. Also just saying that while the cheap animation of most nushows is the fault of execs the writing is shit too, shit like Big City Greens and Stugo are chocked full of unfunny humor from unfunny millennials.Funny how illiterate you Bojack fans are proving yourselves to be.
>>150659313So she's allowed to get help but Bojack isn't? Fuck you, she should take responsibility for herself.
>>150665729>to look like crap?As I said earlier: I'd prefer 'uglier' animation if the writing is good. I don't even find the animation for that particular show ugly. > it’s clear you /co/tards consume beanmouth slopYou're presuming my opinions for me. I never said I watched or enjoy those. > that you love Rebecca Boogers gay rock showOkay first off a 'boogers' joke? Really? Are you ten? And second: No. I don't love that show. I'm indifferent to it and I haven't watched an episode in well over a decade. >I never said shows should have bad writingI never said you did. I'm saying your phrasing makes it seem like you think a show wanting to put writing as the top priority is a negative. (correct me if I'm misinterpreting you) and I don't think that's a good way to look at cartoons. >that think appealing visuals don’t matter.I never said they don't matter point blank period. Half of your sentences are just putting words in my mouth or just assuming my opinions for me. I'm saying it's not a black or white thing and I don't think it's bad when a show puts writing above having Fantasia-level animation. >R*editWell played. You used the buzzword I forgot to inb4. I knew I forgot one.
>>150665758I'm not a fan of Bojack, I just think you're unusually stupid
>>150665758>writers and artists in charge of the cheap shows from the early 2010’s have influenced executives to beanmouth all new shows>have influenced executives to beanmouth>influenced executives>anon actually thinks this is truePoint at him and laugh, children
>>150665791When was he not allowed to get help?
>>150656631>>150656669Subtlety and subversiveness aren't the same thing.
>>150665793>if the writing is good.Which has always been the criticism Horse Guy show, the writing is stupid, boring, out of touch and does nothing with it being a cartoon
>>150665876>Which has always been the criticism Horse Guy showI, once again, never said you had to like 'Horse Guy'. Nobody is required to like any show. There's plenty episodes I hate of it too. My argument, from post 1, was saying 'writerslop' is a weird criticism. If you just mentioned you didn't care for the writing in the initial post I replied to then it'd be different but your main argument in that post was "it prioritized the writing" and that it's bad if shows do that. Which I don't think should be the case.
>>150655841>So, what was the message of this show?It gets a little easier every day, but the hard part is doing it every day.You relapse and get back up hoping not to relapse again.
>>150665819You’re retarded, executives are all about cutting costs, loreshit shows with garbage artstyles are easier to produce so executives wont bother spending money on shows with more interesting styles. Adventure Time kickstarted that shitty calarts trend, keep consuming your slop bojacktards
>>150665949How does it convey this except for the final scene of season 2?
>>150665999>loreshitNow we're complaining about shows having narratives? Really? Unless 'loreshit' means something I'm not aware of, which by all means, fill me in.
moar liek horsejack boman
>>150666015Teasing things as important and leaving that hanging to entice (and abuse) the curiosity of the audience, but when it cannot delay any longer and it finally comes time to deliver, it's shit."Lost" is perhaps a big, malign influence here.
>>150666015Anon I’m just tired of all cartoons having to be story driven lore shows, Adventure Time and Steven Universe kickstarted that trend and it’s been run into the ground ever since, I just want more cartoons that actually want to fucking be cartoons like Smiling Friends or The Patrick Star Show.
>>150666010What if works of fiction, any works of fiction no matter how good or bad, could convey things in a way other than specific scenes that could be clipped and put on YT or twitter or whatever for ADHD fuckos? Like I dunno, some holistic kinda shit. Wouldn't that be a great world to be in? Wouldn't you rather live there than where you live?
>>150666056Again, this is serialized fiction we're discussing. That's quite literally how its done: make it so your audience keeps coming back to watch more. You seem to be operating under the assumption that these programs should offer something more than simple entertainment. All well and good, but you cant be looking for deep dives into the human condition under single fucking rock you stumble across. Just saying, you might wanna curtail those expectations a little if you actually expecting to survive in the real world, son
>>150666056>Teasing things as important and leaving that hanging to entice (and abuse) the curiosity of the audienceOkay if that's the case it does annoy me when shows do that, yes. Cliffhangers are awful. We can agree there. But Bojack never really struck me that way. Maybe I was just lucky because I watched it years after its' official release so I was able to watch the whole series at once.
>>150666116You should watch more of those then, and less of the other thing.
>>150666116>The Patrick Star Show.Jesus fuck, man, have some dignity. Also why are you acting like these are mutually exclusive? Shows can have both lighthearted / funny moments and a narrative at the same time. Art is not a black and white one-or-the-other kind of thing. Both can be enjoyable.
>>150666116That's all well and good Spum, but you don't have to have a melty every time someone makes a thread about a story-driven show.
>>150666163What's a spum?
Cucked by Harvey
>>150665258t. sore loser
>>150663393You have a weirdly narrow, very naive idea of what addiction is. Not every addict acts like a far gone heroin user, anon. I was an addict, I have known other addicts, and I am telling you, this is a realistic depiction of what addiction looks like.
>>150668260It's not weird. I'm not saying Bojack is or isn't a realistic depiction of addiction, but I've seen more than one (less than three! just two, hey, there's that) actually die of this shit while people told me they clearly aren't a real addict. One of those people I loved. And that's before just "normal" fucked up addict shit that doesn't necessarily kill you.
>>150668776NTA to be clear
>>150659313Remember earlier in the season she called Bojack to tell him she was only getting sober so when she starts doing drugs again they'll feel just as good as the first time.Not to mention when Bojack called her to get wasted her house was already laced with every drug and liquor possible.Sarah Lynn was a ticking time bomb and all Bojack did was help her get a jump start on it.
>>150666010It's literally the end of the series, BoJack fell again and started from scratch again.
>>150655841yes OP, it was written by women and libshits>>150656006>incapable of feeling good about himself>unlovable piece of shityes and the script calls for him reaching to be loved or have intimacy and it being a trap every single time. bojack would rather be left alone, and yet the people around him encourage him to keep trying then get mad at him for trying>acknowledge your own failingsthis means nothing>acknowledge your own humanityhumans are social creatures and tied to other humans. your own forgiveness will get you nowhere if others don't accept/love you.>>150657293no, it was literally just shaming a man for some age gap shit that didn't even actually happen, in a state where it's legal, so then the writers could make him a groomer of an even younger girl in the next season, to make it his fault for that female's actions as an adult, just to keep shitting on bojack
Why did Harvey Weinstein love this show so much
>>150655841That if you're a bad person because you're fundamentally broken inside, you don't become a better person via willpower.Bojack improves when his pattern of unhealthy behavior is not available to him. Like when he's in jail, he's genuinely happier, because he just does not have the option to go back to his patterns.If you are broken inside and want to change, you have to burn down the life that allows you to continue your unhealthy behaviors. That's the message. People like Bojack can improve, but only when they're literally unable to continue as they are. They can't just change, even if they really, really want to.
>>150668902... I hate this beause it's genuinely good advice but I don't agree with the reasoning behind it.
>>150668891Maybe you should ask him directly when you go to hell one day.
Sarah lynn got herself killed the stupid bitch
>>150668902Seems vaguely Christian
>>150668902if that's the message, it is only partly true. there are instances for many people in the world where they change before things get too badthere are also many instances where humans need other humans to change or function
Diane shouldn't have gotten fat.
>>150668990How so? Isn't the Christian thing that you just must be contrite, even if on your deathbead after a life of sin?
>>150669281>you're fundamentally broken inside, you don't become a better person via willpowerIf you just add "so that's why you need the grace of God" to that.
>>150669239I disagreeI like her fat
>>150669385... yeah OK fair
>>150668992And there's plenty of people on the show who are able to positively change.But not people like Bojack.
>>150669689My impression was the whole deal was that Bojack could positively change. He often tried and got close. He just didn't.
>>150669728Because he always had a pathway back to his behaviors, his self-destructive lifestyle.Only when that life was no longer a possibility did he actually improve long term.
>>150669419Who of you was it?
>>150662324>>make a character whose actions hurts people and gets away with it every timejust like real life!
Attacking his co-star and the reveal that he essentially killed Sarah Lynn felt completely out of character. I enjoyed the later seasons otherwise but you can just feel that the writers were mad that people didn't hate him enough so they pulled those out of their asses.
Did he take a plane to Sheepstein's island?
>>150668776Yeah, I guess that's fair, it isn't a weirdly narrow and naive outlook, it is just a narrow and naive outlook. Either way, I think my point still stands.Sorry for loss, also, it's a real mother fucker, I've gone through it as well, from both sides.
>Wojak Worseman
>>150669858>“no heather, go away, you’re a minor and kissing me was a bad thing to do. I don’t wanna have sex.”>proceeds to let her make her movesI’m still confused by this shit.
>>150671422Penny, not heather, shit.
>>150669858It links back to Weinstein and the MeToo movement. They bent to the times because the creators are what they critique.
>>150668883>age gap.....anon, what the hell are you on about? I was talking about how the show is a character study, the actual fuck are you on right now?
>>150669858>he actually thinks the point was to like BojackAnon, if there's anything about Bojack's lifestyle or antics that appeals to you, in any way, shape or form, please stop and take a good hard look at your life and what led you to this moment. From second, you are not supposed to sympathize with Bojack, that is contrary to the entire point of the show. This is a show about how acting like a shitty person has consequences, pure and simple. If you fail to see that plain fact, im honestly not sure what else anyone here can say to you aside from good luck and God bless
>>150655841Bojack Horseman said everything it was going to say in 2 seasons but too many people actually watched it so it had to have 4 more seasons of repeating itself. The fact that some of the better moments and episodes were in the later seasons doesn't justify it because they're just making the same point from the first two seasons again, sometimes better, sometimes worse, sometimes about as good but done a little differently, but fundamentally the same show already did it. It was a little manipulative in that if you liked the first 2 seasons you were probably going to keep watching because its doing what you enjoyed before in a way that superficially feels new, but its like a treadmill, you're not actually going anywhere. And obviously you can say "that's the point", but the point is also entirely contained within the first 2 seasons, no need to watch the other four to get it.
>>150672290That is not what I think and you typed all of that out for nothing.
>>150672389I'm so glad I dropped it when season 3 fucked around and wasted my time.
>>150655841I don't know if /co/ willingly misundestands the show or if everyone on here is collectively ragebaiting>That if you’ve done bad things in the past, you’ll always do bad things in the present and in the future? That there’s literally no hope for you making amendsI don't know how anyone can come to this conclusion after watching all the six seasons unless they were on their phones the whole time, or just plain retarded
>>150673562>all the six seasonsall six seasons>>150672389Season 2 would've been quite incomplete if it ended right then and there. You can't just show us the protagonist almost molest a random 17 year old and then end with a hopeful message about self-improvement in the next episode
>>150655841Too bad he never fucked Beatrice. Might be the only thing she would consider him good at.
I think it's pretty blatant that the show just kept going because it was profitable, all of the seasons more or less just repeat Season 1's story but "bigger"
The show was supposed to be a reverse sitcom. Bojack pull sitcom shinanigans and grand gestures and he get gut punch for doing it. Herb not forgiving him when he gets the courage to apologize. Todd is in an actual sitcom. Mr Peanutbutter is the only Good normal person on the show. Diane can't be happy unless she takes her meds.Things don't work like on TV is the theme of the show.
>>150674298>Mr Peanutbutter is the only Good normal person on the show.he's worse than BoJack. plus he stole Diane
>>150674298>Things don't work like on TV is the theme of the show.Shallow and obvious.
>>150655841People become rich & famous by selling their souls.
getting assblasted that the thinly veiled referenced villain of your show likes your show and then shitting all over the main character in response
>>150663479>>150665280It's not my fault that you have shit for brains.
>>150672290Every single maggot making a post like that one is a horrible person IRL looking for easy targets to look down on so they can reasure that "at least I'm not as bad as this guy". Nothing but hypocrites.
>>150665008I appreciate changing the image for the season
>>150673579>almost molest a random 17 year old1. She wasn't "a random 17 year old". He was hurt about being rejected again by a person he cared about, so he finally gave in to the advances of someone else he cared about to feel better.2. She came to him and was exploiting a moment of weakness. Penny was doing something stupid but wasn't being dumb and innocent about it.
>>150659313what do you mean doing well? She was just on a break from drugs so that she could get super triple fucked up again when her body was completely sober.
>>150675165Dog is nice enough to let Horse live with him. Even after his life crashed out, Horse is still living comfortably in a mansion. Everyone left Bojack, he didn't have any friends or family left in the end. But Bojack still had Mr Peanutbutter. He's a good boy.
>>150675264>I could be a success... if I wanted to! But I'm choosing to be a failure because my soul or something!COPE
^ How does someone end up this desperate for attention?
>>150676199And then they made her super duper traumatized by the experience to better demonize Bojack The Unforgiveable. In reality a girl like that would have been passed around by a dozen jocks and probably just think of the weird horse guy as an awkward but minor experience.
>>150676252That's BoJack's problem, he never realized who his true best friend was, who just happened to be man's best friend.
>>150676094It sounds like you identify very strongly with Bojack and are getting super defensive desu baka
>>150676199I can't stand all these children sexually exploiting me
^ ^ [desperation intensefies]
>>150659410
>>150676795Things always go his way just because he is white.(genuinely what the writers believed)
>>150676826i believe it.
>>150661842that's so childish.
>>150676883That's California for you. Must be something in the water.
the lesson of the show is that horses are awful people. is there even one decent horse in the entire show? I don't think so
>>150676911Hollyhock
>>150676941I.. hm. yeah Hollyhock is OK I guess
>>150669397Her hubby likes all the cushion for pushing.
>>150665008>no reason for this shit to be animated or have the main character be a horseThere's plenty of visual gags from people being animals, show would lose a lot of humor if it wasn't horse guy
>>150655841People don't change. They want to, but they don't.
>>150677489Addicts recover, some of the time. That's a much tougher road than you just deciding to be less of a worthless shit.
Bojack diddled a 17 year old
>>150677813No he didn't.
>>150677813you didnt even watch the show
>>150677813Her mom caught them before they did anything. He didn't seem to be fighting back against the girl's advances though.
>SHE WAS 17 YEARS 11 MONTHS AND 29 DAYS OLD YOU SICK FUCK
>AAAAAIIIIIEEEEE, HARVEY WEINSTEIN-SAMA HOW COULD YOU SAY YOU LIKED MY SHOW NOW I WILL RUIN IT FOR NO OTHER REASON THAN TO SPITE YOU>YABBA DABBA NORMAL WORDS BUT HORSE GUUUUUUUUUUUUUUYYYYYY
>>150677813>>150677842>>150677859>>150677863He didn't, but he was going to. Rewatch the scene. He rejected her advances at first but when he was caught they were in bed together, ready to go much further. He had clearly, at that point, stopped rejecting her advances.At that point it's in the grey area of solicitation and maybe assault, since Penny is a minor and cannot consent. Legality aside, would it be any less bad if she were a year older? Questions to grapple with that might reveal a lot about you as the viewer.
>>150678024>He didn't, but he was going toAnd? If those were equally bad you would've just said he tried to instead of saying he did
>>150678024Would've it been good if he had plapped her before the mom came?
>>150678024>Bojack diddled a 17 year old>He didn'tYeah that's what I said.
>>150678024>since Penny is a minor and cannot consentyou didnt even watch the show, penny says herself that the age of consent in new mexico is 17
>>150678024Legality aside fucking a 17 year old is just gross. Would you fuck an adult retarded woman? It's legal (I think). Exact same thing.
>>150678103Do you mean legally retarded or stupid? I'd feel bad about the first one but i'd bang the second one
>>150678716Legally retarded obviously. The whole point of an age of consent is that anyone under it is, legally speaking, too dumb to plough. Where I live it's legal to fuck 17 year olds but I wouldn't want to with some snot-nosed brat.
>>150677878>>150678078>>150679432A line has to be drawn somewhere. It's arbitrary, but that's what we as a society agreed upon.
>>150676301yeah the whole trauma thing with the deer bitch was utterly contrived, that's really when the show started to lose its luster.
>>150659410I'm glad other people see how much of a shit Todd is. He seems to get a pass everywhere else because "he baby uwu"
>>150678103most women I've met are about as stupid as they were as teenagers. I've met a lot of men who are this way, too, but it's a phenomenon that hits women harder.
>>150665273Nta but he said "Cares" not "Cared"In the present day and age, Bojack is pretty much forgotten from the collective consciousness, back in it's day it really was talked about everywhere you looked.That's what I assume he meant with "That's what happens when normies watch it", it became a trend and got carried by that high until it went down on it's own.
>>150659410>>150679609I surmised that's some of the reason they hung out with Bojack. They have Double Hitler to point and gawk at instead of looking at the evil and stupid shit themselves are doing. But I still loved the show. I like stories involving criminals.
>>150677489Ain't that the truth
>>150655841It's just slop written by mentally ill losers. An easy skip.
>>150655841Just watch Moral Orel if you want this done right
I wish I had the money and free time to whine and complain like bojack
>>150682194What is moral orel about?
>>150655841Why the long face? : (
I hate Todd and Diane more than I do Bojack. Going to assume that wasn't the creator's intention.
>>150657057>>150656669Because the general audience still has never left that rose tinted glasses view of "its a cartoon but its mature and deep".
>>150655841I am glad this shows culture zeitgeist has died down. It was and still is pretentious garbage with surface level writing.
>>150685665This. They might as well get rid of their names call them agenda and venting.
>>150685829That's fine. Very different from hating the show for thinly disguised personal reasons.
>>150678024You're so stupid it's even funny.
>>150656006>Bojack is a man whoUhhhhh....last time I checked he was a horse...
Pedo horse
>>150680295>They have Double Hitler to point and gawk at instead of looking at the evil and stupid shit themselves are doing.EXACTLY! BoJack was surrounded by a bunch of toxic hypocrites. When he was gone, they still kept ruining their own lives but he was no longer there to take the blame. They ALL needed to find better people to help them climb out of their holes. An ideal ending would have been them going their separate ways out of Hollywood to have better lives -or- ALL of them losing everything like BoJack.Anyone who disagrees with this is full of shit, SPECIALLY the writers of the show.>Verification is not required.
>>150686132>an ideal endingfor fuck's sakeI'm going to make this as simple as fucking possible.THE THESIS OF THE SHOW CAN BE SUMMARIZED IN FOUR WORDS"AND LIFE GOES ON"THERE ARE NO ENDINGS. THINGS DON'T GET WRAPPED UP. CLOSURE IS A MYTH.For fuck's sake they literally put the perfect ending to the show IN THE SHOW as the penultimate episode and then had him survive it for the finale because THE WHOLE SHOW IS ABOUT THERE NOT BEING ENDINGS LIKE IN A STORY.
>>150686486You're an idiot regurgitating pretentious crap.
>>150686583Does Herb Kazazz need to fucking scream the thesis of the show at youBECAUSE HE DOES
>>150686606What you need is to stop trying to sound smart and genuinely think about what you're saying, imbecile. Everyone but BoJack got what >>150686132 described minus the "get out of Hollywood" part (except Diane, of course). Why do you bitch at me for something the writers themselves did, you shit-for-brains? Going back to what happened in the show- them not getting out of Hollywood IS the anti-thesis of what the show was about, dipshit. The only reason they didn't was to spite Harvey We- I mean BoJack; everyone else got their cake and ate it. Your "it's about life not having perfect endings" crap is utter nonsense. The show did fucking end- and every sane person hated it because of the stupid double standards and shameless hypocrisy of the writers. Idiot.
>>150686893>Everyone got an ending except Bojack!You're genuinely too stupid to converse with and clearly have a chip on your shoulder over a rapist
>>150686923Not my fault that you are a pretentious fart-huffer that isn't capable of genuine discussion.
>>150686923>clearly have a chip on your shoulder over a rapistThe irony eludes you.
>>150686964Again: not what irony is.
>>150686486>THERE ARE NO ENDINGS. THINGS DON'T GET WRAPPED UP. CLOSURE IS A MYTH.Retard
>>150687661You don't get to decide that.>Verification is not required.
>>150687873You're right The dictionary doesEven if you weren't just wrong in your argument, a fat guy calling a skinny guy fat isn't irony.
>>150687901You make no sense.
