Or another way to put it is that there is a certain level of woke but "normalcy" balance that people can tolerate.For the record this is about discussion when it comes to media and messaging so don't just sperg out in the post replies because this is still a neutral analysis despite everything.Now Ranting For Vengance and a few, but small minority of others have noticed that aside from discarding certain mythos from each DC characters origins that are almost all required for them to be those characters that these iterations are also woke. Almost all of them are working class people going against the super rich and powerful with billions of dollars and state backing at their disposals. It's obvious in absolute Superman where he almost always helps non whites including slavs, latinx peoples, and Africans and Martian Manhunter with trans folx. However the success of the comic series cannot be understated as well. If it's such woke nonesense why is it selling? Because it appeals to the basic sentimentalities of the average person. Most notably:-It is fighting centered-It has white protagonistsIt's something I've noticed is a common occurrence in the most successful propaganda. In order to subliminally implant these messages in the brain one must only meet those two requirements.-White protagonist as bait-Make the reader say "Hell yeah" at least onceTheir brains are pacified into accepting things. W. Stagg and his amazing analysis videos use them to show that most classic films are in fact subversive woke propaganda from John Wayne movies, to Sergio Leone movies, to 21 Days Later. Every single one has blatant sub textual messaging but viewers ignore it because of white protagonists and "hell yeah" action moments. Past these two biological requirements for most viewers, they will be accepting of all else and allow the brains guards to go down. If however the protagonist is non white and the writing is not fight heavy then it will be considered too woke.Thoughts?
who cares, you dont even care
>>150696038Future comic book writers who want to subvert white western civilization properly without being called out and having it backfire probably, this is a good thread to have, discuss, and study if you're one of them.
They should really do what japan does and if a manga is hot they should green light an animated adaptation ASAP
>>150696032You are stuck in 2016.
Addendums I thought of but could not include:-This is why modern Marvel and DC were hated for a number of years, from 2013. Non white protagonists are offensive to the senses and fail to penetrate the first layer of the brains defenses. Even asians and blacks don't like staring at people who are far too ethnic It's why "Classic" characters being rebooted like in Absolute Universe are selling gag busters.-On top of that WMBF is easy to push and just as subversive, but it's seen as more acceptable because of the white protagonists. This is because most women are naturally cuckqueans so many white women will not get offended when white men fuck black women, but the other way doesn't work as well. See also: 21 days later. You can have black and gay side characters but never protagonists. Unfair? Maybe. Required? Absolutely. -It's also why Absolute Batman and Superman are selling despite throwing away major character aspects. The average viewer does not care much for the details or integrity of characters or writing. If you can make them say "Hell yeah" at least once. It's also why so many brown people like the universe on top of the reasons above, it is the same as shonen, you may not like it but this is what the people want. >>150696052Also a good idea, I'm not even sure there's currently enough issues to do it yet but HBO Max would sell a lot by making an animated adaptation.>>150696097This is actually a thread about how we are living in a post 2016 age, where woke propaganda is reconnecting with what made it acceptable rather than offensive to the senses and caused a right wing backlash to begin with.
Jesus Christ man you guys will try literally anything to keep the go woke go broke shit runningThe goalposts aren’t just moved, they’re placed at the center of a maze
>>150696120Take ten seconds to read the thread before posting.This is a thread about how to make woke work and how woke you can get before reaching critical levels.
>>150696134I did, it’s horseshit and you should feel bad about making the thread
>>150696150I'm sorry you're angry people are using the comic discussion board to discuss writing in comics.Anyway.
>>150696175I'm sorry your grifter horseshit isn't working
>>150696192Grifters wouldn't exist if people with self restraint and actual media literacy when it comes to making political ideas subtle enough and marketable enough to not anger people like the writing team behind every Absolute book except Green Lantern are doing did it before 2013 when leftists for whatever reason thought it was finally time to go mask off and replace all white protagonists with colored and homosexual successors.
>>150696032Absolute DC is slop. I don't care if it's woke or not woke or whatever garbage you're supposing. The books are crap that sell well because they're new. Once they aren't new, they'll sell poorly and be canceled in favor of some other reinvention.
>>150696047am i white if i'm italian
>>150696236Depends on the region.>>150696229Yes, and one of the points in my OP is that slop to some extent sells.You can transfigure slop to be meaningful, or you can embrace it fully, and Absolute DC embraced it fully and it still will sell, same as McDonalds, if your goal is to make money and penetrate the masses for better or worse, slop always wins if kept to a certain level.
>>150696236>ItalianSo you are literally brown.
>>150696052That’s not what Japan does
>>150696032
no one will mourn you
>>150696367This post offends you enough to warrant personal insults because deep down you know it's true. Absolute DC is a success because it follows the white protagonist and action oriented rules required.
>>150696032Daily redhat meltdown thread? We have way too many of those active on /co/.
Absolute Cringe
>>150696406You can listen and learn or eventually cause another "red hat" resurgence in the future by not doing so, it's a pretty simple outline in a media studies thesis anon.
>>150696032People should be aware that what made the 'SJW' comics of the 2010s so bad wasn't the politics in and of themselves. It was the way the stories were obviously a distant second place in terms of importance to whatever political agenda the authors wanted to push. Namely feminism and gay stuff.Superhero comic books have always commented on politics, and made political statements with their stories. From Action Comics no1, where Superman was a vehicle for Shuster and Seigel to vent about their gripes with the world, and was a champion of FDR's New Deal in all terms but explicit ones. Or William Moulton Marston's Wonder Woman books which preached an idiosyncratic view of future peace through eroticism from dominance and submission.But those stories, and later more nuanced politically-charged comics, focused on the story first. The story told a political message, but it felt like a real story.The Absolute line has political themes, it comments on the undue and threatening power of the evil hyper-rich and corrupted governments, they stand for conventionally liberal views of the necessity to protect the oppressed, and equality of all people.But these are themes core to the heart of the story. Not random bullshit injected straight into the comic book.Also, are we going to act like the rich aren't all horrible fucking people who oppress the masses? I feel you don't need to be 'woke' to acknowledge that the dudes who fly to Epstein Island and enrich themselves while their nations grow poorer are terrible people and a threat to society.
>>150696434Do you people just have zero agencyI know you're reactionaries but my god manYou treat your own ideology as a cancer that the left has to manage
>>150696047>comic book writers who want to subvert white western civilizationI don't really think it's an effective method to 'subvert western civilization' by putting in mostly uncontroversial normielib takes in a form of media only read by, at best, 40-odd-thousand middle-aged American men.You need to acknowledge that, in the west, most people (and the vast majority of artists, who are more liberal by temperament) are going to think that it's okay to be gay, and that we shouldn't demonize immigrants.There's no grand conspiracy to push those ideas, that's just what probably 55-60% of Americans naturally think.
>>150696052Yeah if there were more immediate animations based on popular comic runs, more young people would start to actually read comics.It doesn't necessarily need to be right away, but American comic books are so niche because they basically never get directly adapted into the much more accessible medium of animation
>>150696604I have no particular interest in protesting this or changing it, I think you and everyone else in this thread keeps coming in here thinking I'm a trad cath nationalist conquistador or whatever, I just find it an interesting piece of evidence that Absolute DC comes in and starts to prove me and other peoples theories correct.>>150696574Like I said, the 1st point is to get a white protagonist. The 2nd is to have some level of focus on action. You can have whatever message or even story you want, but you have to focus on pulling the reader in first. It correlates with what you're saying.
>>150696118>On top of that WMBF is easy to push and just as subversiveWhat are you, a caveman? You're offended by 'miscegenation' in 2025?Look, I'm not going to try to convince you to believe anything else. But for your own sake you need to recognize you have a very niche, minority opinion. Most people in the Western world, hell even in the world in general, think being against marriage of people of different races is racist and backwards.If you believe something so radical, then it is inevitable that almost all or outright all mainstream media won't agree with you.It's like a Stalinist Communist demanding Hollywood movies to be in line with Stalinist political philosophy. It's just never going to happen.
>>150696645>There's no grand conspiracy to push those ideas, that's just what probably 55-60% of Americans naturally think.Trump won twice.Media consumption and debate contribute to planting seeds of what people accept or not. If I cared at all about keeping it that way instead of seeing an increase over the years in antisemitism, racism, and sexism, all of which have steadily gone up, I'd see what works and what doesn't and put artistic integrity aside to make my propaganda more subtle.
>>150696717>It's like a Stalinist Communist demanding Hollywood movies to be in line with Stalinist political philosophy. It's just never going to happen.To some extent it did, I wouldn't call woke movies communist, but like I said most movies were woke even from the 50s onward, and I mean "Classics" even right wingers lover. Miscegenation is still very much case by case basis on what most people accept I'm just averaging out what causes outrage and what doesn't.
>>150696229The one thing more annoying than the retarded obsession on politics in comic books, are the people who say that every fucking comic ever made 'is shit.'>Ultimate is slop>Absolute is slop>Mainline Marvel/DC is slop>Indies are slopThese people never give you an example of a comic book they like. Almost certainly because they don't fucking read them.Absolute Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter are great. Beautiful art, a new and exciting world, interesting new ideas, strong characterization. They are quite good.Absolute Batman and Superman I find a bit unnecessary since I don't think they're any more interesting than the mainline versions of those characters. But, even then, as comics they are pretty good. Action-packed, well illustrated, well paced.But this is /co/ were fucking everyone acts like there's never been one good comic book published, or at least none today.If you want to prove me wrong, faggot, name me a comic book run from the past you like, and one you like which is coming out now.
Your premise is that subtle propaganda is more effective than blatant propaganda. Stunning and brave. Be sure to let everyone in 515 BCE know of this revelation.
>>150696340Japan has a lack of diversity in their culture, western civiliation has a mixture of a variety of people's culture and identities, they are different systems
>>150696574no way that's a real panel
>>150696032Absolute Superman felt a little preachy. Does Absolute Wonder Woman get worse? I'm enjoying Absolute Batman and I'm not excited to see him fight white supremacist.. Unironically they're the least threatening people in the USA lmfao. It's always the ones who act like they're the good guys who end up being the most evil.
>>150696838This is unironically new to liberals. >>150696867And yet one was failing in its home country until recently for a reason.
>>150696032I agree its pretty much always a sign of doom when a new redesign gives wonder woman a bodysuit and they try to sell it as heckin badass bro! Literally every time in history this has been done it fails. Literally. Every. Time. And they dont learn they just keep hiring weird schizos with issues about women and let them project that onto WW and it works for a short time until people realize its dogshit. >bro I have a great new spin on WW>what if... hear me out.... she had pants and a BIG SWORD!!>WOOOOOAHHH COOL BRO HECCKIN BIG SWORD BROOO THIS IS WHAT COMICS ARE ABOUT!!!*clap clap clap* fucking ugly art draws men and gives them tits too, just makes me sick how people defend it.
>>150696691>prove mine and other peoples theories correctBut it did not do thatYou know it didn't which is why I said you were moving the goalposts, in order to contort your argument to fit the evidence.
>>150696886Absolute WW gets worse but its generally the same level of bad consistently, the same issues with the first 3 or so issues are in every issue it never gets better.
>>150696691>the 1st point [to have a successful comic] is to get a white protagonist.Are you retarded?Spawn, Blade, Luke Cage, Black Panther, Miles Morales, Storm, Static, Black Lightening... come to think of it it's odd how there are so many beloved black superheroes, but I can't name any particularly popular Latino or Asian ones. Guess it's probably because of how obsessed American culture was and is with black representation in specific.All of those characters are or were very popular (even Black Lightening's book was popular in the 70s), they struck a chord with Americans. Black and white.Is your point that it's easier to have progressive messaging with white characters?Because I'm even sold that that's true.
>>150696955God fucking damn it. I noticed the woke writers try to be fucking sneaky. They'll write a good traditional buildup of the first few issues then they slowly write their stupid bullshit in. They're just going to lose readers.
>>150696719>Trump won twice.Trump has been the most pro-gay Republican ever. Has forced third world nations to legalize or decriminalize gay marriage and gay sex.And while he is decidedly anti-immigration, there's a difference between wanting more control over immigration, or less immigration, and hating immigrants.This is why Trump is presently far underwater on the issue of Immigration according to pollsters. People don't like massive ice raids of people who aren't violent, and the disregard of these people's human and legal rights
>>150696886AWW is still pretty good imo
>>150696996>And while he is decidedly anti-immigration,Anti illegal-immigration. There's a difference.
>>150696886>Does Absolute Wonder Woman get worse?Absolute Wonder Woman is by far the least political book of the line. There's really no preaching at all.It's actually much less political or preacher than the mainline book by Tom KingI really love AWW, I think it's really good.
>>150696831You didn't ask about a comic I like, faggot. You wanted to discuss Absolute, so I gave my opinion on it. Martian Manhunter is actually good but the trinity (and Batman in particular) are brainless slop. A classic run that's good? Sure, how about Englehart's Captain America and Batman, or Stern's Spider-Man, Gerber's Defenders, Milligan's Batman, Messner-Loebs' Flash, Robinson's Starman, Moore's Supreme, Mantlo's Hulk or his underrated Spectacular SM run, etc. I could name great classic runs all day. Modern stuff... shit... umm... Absolute Martian Manhunter, and does Bowling with Corpses count? Beasts of Burden was probably the most recent book I went out of my way to buy.
>>150697010He just killed the H1B program
>>150696998>>150697031Fair enough. Absolute Superman is kinda getting boring. Absolute Batman has been good so far. I'll probably jump in and read AWW next
>>150697010Good point.Trump, himself, has never come out against legal immigration.His base often has, but he hasn't.
>>150697038Hm. I've been proven wrong.What do you not like about Absolute Wonder Woman? I've been really liking that book so far.
>>150697039>He just killed the H1B programHe didn't. He's giving Americans a better opportunity to get work over foreigners. Just become an American. My family took over 20 years to become legal citizens. It's not fair that mexicans can just cheat like that.
>>150696963>Indie, B listers, and openly hated race swapsNot the argument you think it is >Is your point that it's easier to have progressive messaging with white characters?Yes
>>150697072Your family was unfairly fucked over and you're cucking for the system that did it to them.
>>150696996Trump himself matters less than the reasons why he was voted in by his voter base.
>>150696297What Japan typically does that the US doesn't is consider the manga more important than the adaptation."Getting an anime" is basically just getting a glorified one season ad for the manga half the time.Not really a point in doing that when even the MCU couldn't get kids into comics.The Japanese just have a thing about making sure every medium stays alive and active in one way or another. They kept using CDs as their main source of music into the 2010s (largely for the sake of the idol industry but that's another story)
>>150697090>Your family was unfairly fucked overHow are the illegals doing?
>>150697059I really loke the art and the panel layouts, it's a visual forward comic. The mythology is fairly interesting but WW is kind of dull... and I can't stand her supporting cast. Every single one of them just grinds things to a stop. The end result, in my opinion, is beautiful but empty stories.
>>150697111
>>150697094Well if we want to talk about why Trump won, what the reasons for most or much of his voters were, then it's because Hillary Clinton was and is one of the most despised political figures in America, and was horribly corrupt.Then Biden ran one of the worst administrations in American history, and people thought Trump would magically make the economy better.The two times he won, he was playing on easy mode.So far both times he's actually gotten into office, he immediately becomes terribly unpopular
>>150697132Fair. If you don't like Wonder Woman much, an alternate universe version of her isn't going to be any more interesting.>I can't stand her supporting castThey've barely been in the book since like issue 5. Every other issue or so there's a panel where the entirety of her supporting cast gets like, three lines of dialogue combined. That's about it.
>>150697136>People hate the two parties no matter whatAgain not the argument you think it is.People hate what affects them personally, which the average American doesn't realize, they're lucky enough to not be constant war, famine, or pestilence. What does affect them is media they consume, the more media they deem unacceptable, the more personally attacked they feel, when this is due to critical levels of woke poisoning their slop supply they get angry and direct it to those politics, to those minorities, to those authors. It's easy to say history is as simple as "The thing before it was fucking awful that's why the new guys won" but the fact is that small things add up, and this is why it's important to abide by rules, which exist for a reason, even in the arts.
Feels like the target audience for these comics are non-Americans to be honestWhich is fine, just weird
>>150697178See the fourth reply. my addendum, which discusses why even marketing towards brown people requires those two aspects.
>>150697161Hmm... I gave up on the title around #5, so maybe I should revisit it? If they indeed minimized her supporting cast then maybe I'll find more from the title.
>>150696032Does Absolute WW have a woke focus? is the only current DC ongoing I'm interested right now. I don't mind blacks or gays but when they start with the victim complex or shoving an agenda onto my face is where I draw the line.
>>150696047no one is getting advice from autistic faggots from /co/none of you actually believe in any of the shit you spout anyway
>>150697105>Not really a point in doing that when even the MCU couldn't get kids into comics.that's because comics aren't built like mangayou can't watch a cape shit show and then read the comics to see what happens nextand when it's non capeshit, it's some live action slop that barely resembles the thing it's adapting
>>150697316No, and my god fucking form your own opinion for once. Twitter has rotted your brain
>>150697316It's woke.
>Dood, what if Batman was the strongest and the biggest and could rape everyoneWho the fuck likes this?
>>150697316>Does WW have a woke focus?Does 2+2 equal 4?
>>150698114Batman had been relentlessly fucked up the entire time so far though
>>150698114Absolute Bane.
>>150696032Bro. Only comic shops are buying and the Trojan horse gambit was exposed years ago. Everyone's guard is up analysis of media has become common place. The powers that be realized that their propaganda and narrative weaponry are exposed and it is becoming common knowledge so "media literacy" aka telling you how to interpret media so it works how it's supposed to is being pushed. You have to actually be GOOD and convince people to accept your point if view. Because the unwashed masses make money from analyzing dissecting and exposing messaging.
>>150698108>>150698125Not really saying much here. Is it woke or not?
>>150698248>Is Wonder Woman woke or not?Is water wet?
>>150698253I don't get your meaning, is it woke or not?
>>150698125>>150698248>>150698253Neither of you read comics, you're lazy faggots who get information from Youtube and Twitter. If you're wondering if its pandering modern woke, the answer is no.
>>150698248Woke.
>>150698253No water makes other things wet water by itself isn't wet
>>150698284So water is in a state of none wetness till something else touches it. Ah Wet only applies to what has come into contact with water. ....Fuck that. I will continue to use "is water wet".
>>150698310The answer is no water is not wet. It makes other things wet
>>150697314There's more action and the plot moves forward more.I'd say find a way to pirate it and then decide if you want to return to it.Issues 6 and 7 really focus on the Greek Mythology side, I think you'd like those.
>>150697316AWW is only woke if you're one of the retards who think the presence of any women, gay, or non-white in a piece of media inherently makes it 'woke.'
>>150698253Is Wonder Woman inherently 'woke' because she's a woman who can fight good?Is 'wokeness' something which has existed since 1941, to you?
>>150696032I've never seen so many people talk about a run in a positive way in ages. Absolute is peak DC and is gaining more popularity. Call it woke, call it garbage, people like it. Absolute is nothing but a net positive for DC. Bane hasn't been this well-regarded since at least Arkham Origins. I see people actually discussing Wonder Woman for Christ's sake, I've almost never seen anyone talk about her and yet here she is, people love her.
>>150698114Batman's one and only win against a major foe was the rematch where he and his mutated super friend double teamed him.
>>150698536That is the literal definition of woke yes
>>150698550>Is Wonder Woman inherently 'woke' because she's a woman who can fight good?Yes, retard.
>>150698581>>150698583You talk like a child
>>150698574Didn't he beat the shit out of black mask?
>>150698588Cope
>>150696047>this is a good thread to have, discuss, and study if you're one of them.Imagine taking writing tips from 4chan
>>150698114He literally gets ragdolled almost every single issue
>>150698591Black Mask is a basic goon compared to the rest of Absolute Batman's rogue gallery
So who will break Joseph kerr first, and make him laugh and smile absolute lex or Bruce
>>150698581>woke is when black, gay, or woman exist>>150698583>woke is when a fictional woman, gifted with magic powers, can fight well
>>150700536Yes cope
>>150696032Is it selling?
>>150698114Anon, he's been getting bulldozed for nearly 10 issues straight
I wish something terrible happened to americucks already so they could stop polluting every site by the unbridled stupidity they proudly and embarrassingly wear on their chests.
>>150696236>am I white if I'm brown
>Absolute Martian ManhunterUncontroversially the best of the Absolute series. Buddy cop drama with high stakes, amazing art, and a lot of great psychological humor, horror, and themes. >Absolute BatmanSo stupid and extreme it wraps around to being really good. The most brutal of the absolute comics and actually feels like a universe with Darkseid in its DNA. Has Resident Evil/Parasite Eve vibes in a good way.>Absolute Wonder WomanThe most straightforward of the Absolute comics. Diana gets out of most situations without a scratch, but the emphasis on magic makes it entertaining. Supporting cast besides Circe and Steve Trevor is completely useless and bland. Mom/daughter moments between Diana and Circe give a lot of heart to the series.>Absolute SupermanThe most heavy handed with its political themes, but doesn't justify it with an interesting story. Lazarus corporation initially has some fun parallels with the authoritarian Kryptonian government, but is incredibly one-note and laughable with an army of Peacemakers and helicopter tanks. Ra's and Talia are not a good foil for Superman the way Lex Luthor is, and the absence of a lot of Superman's rogues is noticeable. Braniac is a highlight of the series and is a bright spot in an otherwise pretty boring story.>Absolute FlashStory magically finds a way to go absolutely nowhere in 7 issues. Thawne and the "villains" feel completely useless since Wally can literally outrun all of their attempts to capture him. Other villains are dealt with in 3 pages by Wally "absorbing" their powers and running fast. There has been no growth or character-building moments for Wally or the rogues, and Grodd is going to have a completely obvious double cross in a few issues. >Absolute Green Lantern.Haven't read.
the problem was never "woke" the problem is that liberals who work in the industry forgot about the idea of subtleness, nuance, and being indirect. Instead they beat you over the head with diversity and girl power and all that garbage.Basically they forgot the actual art of story telling
>>150697171>What does affect them is media they consume, the more media they deem unacceptable, the more personally attacked they feel, when this is due to critical levels of woke poisoning their slop supply they get angry and direct it to those politics, to those minorities, to those authors.I’m sure conservative media misinforming people for decades and constantly drumming outrage over every stupid and manufactured “controversy” has nothing to do with it. It’s just “wokeness” which changes definitions quicker than why Trump changes his excuse as to why the Epstein files don’t exist
>>150703744>the problem is that liberals who work in the industry forgot about the idea of subtleness, nuance, and being indirectThe endless whining Peacemaker’s Nazi world reveal has created on this website shows that this is pure bullshit and cope. You have countless mouth breathing troglodytes insisting Earth-X is perfect world and libtards fail to write nuance and just hecking write bad propaganda even though the entire twist is presented as the two worlds being incredibly similar in most things due to the largely small weird changes (plus some dense headed idiocy from Peacemaker’s inability to pay attention to glaring red flags around him) and Auggie himself being presented as very level headed and reasonable guy who in no way is a caricature or a nazi and his death is done in a darkly comedic fashion, intended to sabotage what would have otherwise been a calm and entirely peaceful process of Team Peacemaker just returning back to their own Earth.You also see it time and time again that all “lacking” subtlety and nuance in fiction is actually people either lying about it or ignoring what actually happens in order to get other people angry.
>>150696032>>150696118Next time just say that "this will be my final post on /co/"
>>150703710>Absolute Green Lantern.>Haven't read.Absolute Green Lantern is weird cause it's the most like Martian Mind****er in that there's clearly a lot of thought put into the esoteric theming of the comics, but it's also largely an excuse for colorful anime laser fights. Also the most decompressed of the line save for Absolute Flash. It does stuff with that decompression, to be fair, really setting up the context of what happened to our MCs, but it still probably took way too long. Especially since the very next story after they wrap it up is just a hilariously straight forward fight out in space.
>>150696032>>150696047>>150696118you are a sheep and your life is hollow
