>>150707547
DC pushed Nightwing so much in 2021-23 because with Taylor and Redondo he quickly became DC's second best-selling book after Batman.

But that push started falling apart when they relaunched Superman and Wonder Woman with Dawn of DC, which started outselling Nightwing. And fully fell apart when Taylor left and they launched the Absolute Universe and the DCU. Now Nightwing has likely the same level of priority as something like JSA inside DC. And DC, unlike Marvel, doesn't have enough resources to push and promote more than three characters at once.

And Nightwing has a few problems in his quest to become an A-lister, namely that his own mythos suck. The Batman or even Titans mythos are more interesting. And Nightwing isn't that interesting of a character himself. Priest was spot on about him.
>With all possible respect to my friend Tim Seeley, my former mentor Marv Wolfman, Devin Grayson, Geoff Johns and others, I find Dick Grayson to be the most boring Wonder Bread boilerplate character ever to pull on spandex. That’s just me. Tens of thousands of fans are *rabid* Dick Grayson fans. For the life of me, I couldn’t explain why. Grayson, in his various iterations, seems, to me, the ultimate expression of what I’m being harangued about around the web: the flattened-out character whose dealt with all of his shortcomings and character flaws. I see Grayson and I wonder, “And now what?”

I honestly don't think there's actually much of a path for Nightwing to become an actual A-list. Being a popular Batman sidekick and leader of the Titans with his own solo book nobody cares much about is probably where the character will always more-or-less be.

>>150707649
Consistently has a book that sells even when "A-listers" don't even have a book. I'd say he's an objectively interesting character you're just biased. Really the only boring character DC has is john stewart

>>150708071
He is a perennial B-lister. "He always has a book that sells mediocre" is like the textbook definition of B-lister.

I admit Marvel has been screwing with this definition with characters like Deadpool, Captain America or Iron Man not being able to keep a book for long. But all the major DC characters seem to always have at least one book in the stands.

>>150708271
Having a book that sells no matter how the market is is not mediocre. He's well known to normies and comic book fans and popular on the internet. Just be honest and say you don't like the character.

>>150707649
Priest literally used him as his Tyler durden.
He just doesn't have the balls to say it.

>>150708346
If he was an A-lister he would be starring in DC KO and his book would be in the top 25 if not 10.

Do you see A-list writers and artists dying to write Nightwing? No, if anything most of them just seem to use it as a jumpboard to get a Batman book (Tomasi, Snyder, King, Taylor).

>>150708523
Not staring in one event really doesn't mean anything especially when it'll be forgotten about a month later. Plenty of writers wanted to write nightwing blame the powers that be for not allowing it. Waid for example wanted to write nightwing for the longest.

It's obvious you're just a troll.

>>150707547
If I'm not mistaken, Nightwing is the longest-running and most-issued comic in DC's lineup without a relaunch.
DC currently only has eyes for Absolute, King's WW is in freefall, and Green Lantern and Flash no longer appear on the charts. Other heroes, like Green Arrow, are lucky to reach issue 20, something neither Damian nor Tim managed, and Jason fared even worse, not getting past issue 1.
The bottom line is that Nightwing is easily one of DC's most consistent characters; he doesn't need to be a blockbuster, and he still sells well enough to survive. If DC wanted him to sell well, they would have shut the title down when Taylor left.
Nightwing isn't out of KO, he'll be in the Batman portion of the event. Having Nightwing in the main part would mean having another popular character, which would be more work. As it stands, DC only has to deal with Batman, Superman, and WW. Batman will leave to deal with the problem in another way, leaving only Superman and WW as important and popular.
Titans only exists because Nightwing is in the comic, even though he's completely ignored by the writer. But if you take him out, the comic dies, like what happened when Ric Grayson happened.
Nightwing is in a good position; the character doesn't need to be in a lot of places. He has his own series with over 130 issues, a Year One miniseries by Waid, and soon there'll be something more.

>>150708592
>It's obvious you're just a troll.

It's obvious you're just a fanboy.

>over 300 solo issues
>His ONLY known villain is a bad Kingpin knockoff

Literally how

>>150707547
>and his book falling out of the top 100
Where is he outside the TOP 100?
In August, he's at #90, while in August we had 20 #1s from Marvel and DC, not to mention the several comics that recently had #1s and are in lower numbers, like FF and Captain America.
Avengers is at #83, Hulk at #80, Batman: Superman's Finest at #82, Batman & Robin #123, Tom King's WW at #85, Green Lantern at #135, and Flash at #195.
If you take out the #1s and Absolute and Ultimates, which are the hottest right now, Nightwing is easily in the TOP 50; he's on the winning side.

>>150707649
Priest is a batfag, and he's of the generation where the main cultural touchpoints for Dick are Burt Ward and Casey Casem. All due respect to the man who made me love the Black Panther, but his opinion on this is a bad one.

>>150707547
How do you check the top 100 in 2025? ICv2 is pay to view more than the top 50.

Nightwing isn't crossing over with DC K.O. because you can only fit in so many Robins and the legacies need the exposure more. Nightwing is appearing in Nightwing, Titans, World's Finest, B&R Year One, and The Last Halloween. He's fine.

>>150709413
What do you consider a KNOWN villain? Nightwing doesn't get adaptations. You're stuck with the Nightwing villains that get pulled into Batman or Titans media.

>>150707547
How many heroes are bigger than him a DC? Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, and maybe Flash? His book I think sells better than Flash though. He is in this weird place of selling like an A list character but gets treated like a B list one by DC usually and he is stuck behind his own creation in Robin being more well known than Nightwing.

The only way that Dick ever becomes a full A list character is if DC reboots and Dick is Robin again. Where DC gives him a Robin solo book and a Titans book with the Titans people actually care about being teens again.

>>150707649
Priest was just bitter that readers hated his Titans story crossover with Deathstroke where he wrote Dick, Wally, and Damian like shit.

>>150708523
Jason and Damian are in DC KO with Batman. Having another Batman character wouldn't add in anything. So they are just letting Dick be in the Titans tie in.

>>150709413
Because they've done the Blockbuster story like 4 fucking times in his solo. Bludhaven just isn't conducive in creating memorable villains. Since any actual interesting street level one will be saved for Batman and Gotham.

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Don't care. Excited for more Dick and Kara stories with Robin and Supergirl soon in WF.

>>150707547
Get someone good to write him again. I think nuking Bludhaven pissed a lot of people off so I'm glad they brought it back.

>>150711610
I said this for Huntress in another thread but just give him horrifying human enemies. Like the stuff Punisher or Daredevil has to deal with.

>>150711533
Because it was dogshit.
>I don't have time to read every comic wah wah wah
He should have, at a bare minimum, especially given how often he tried to shove Damian into his Prieststroke run, read the entirety of the Morrison Batman and Robin run. If he'd gotten the Dick and Damian dynamics right everyone would have excused his Wally as Rebirth issues. But instead he complained that the fans were wrong and doubled down.

>>150711669
What is horrifying though? Batman probably already has better ones.

>>150711703
Human traffickers that kind of shit. Since Batman under Fraction has removed itself so far from the noir aspects and Absolute Batman is less noir, let Nightwing be the noir book

I bet regular people who don't follow comics probably like Red Hood more than Nightwing. Red Hood always gets talked about more on social media and has more cosplays at conventions than Nightwing.

>>150711726
I think most people who like Red Hood would be disappointed if they actually read most of his comics. Jason Todd may be the most misused character in the Batman vortex

>>150707649
Every so often, there are threads talking about Dick and about how much of a failure he or his comics are.

And yet, after the batgod, he's the best known Gotham reflated character there is - better than the butler, better than the demon spawn, better than the gay robin, dead robin, female robin, black robin or any other non-essential bat-side-kick, including any of the batgirls, Gordon, Batwoman or anyone else, including batgod's boyfriend or any of Bruce's other rogues.

Get over it.
Deal with it.
Learn to live with it.
Dick is here to stay.

They just need to have him and the other core Titan members be part of the regular Justice League lineup and stories and no longer Titan members. Then backfill the Teen Titans with new original characters. The cartoon did a good job pushing the 5 into the mainstream. Modern JL lineups have teased this with Cyborg as the diversity hire. Makes sense in my mind that this would be the next step rather than just retreading the same Titan relationships and stories forever.

Here are some better questions
>Is Daredevil as of 2025 an A lister?

>Where do you put Someone like Red Hood who as a massive normie appeal? Has a succesful adaptation, appears in games and is arguably as recognizable as Dick if not more, but cant hold a book to save his life?

Why do you want Nightwing in DC KO? It’s gonna fucking suck and be filled with people who shouldn’t job jobbing.

If anything Dick lucked out by Damian and Jason being the designated Batfamily members.

Also Watters’ run is good and DC is FINALLY leaving Dick’s book ALONE after years of shoving unnecessary crossovers into it. Even Taylor’s run got interrupted by Knight Terrors and being forced into a Titans arc to prep readers for his Titans run.

>>150711986
It’s actually pretty impressive DC didn’t give Dick a K.O. tie in like they did Aquaman/Flash/Titans. Tie ins exist to bump sales so that combined with Watters confirming he’s staying past 18 issues DC must be content with his sales. I think Watters will get to finish his run at around 30 issues and then DC will relaunch the book after he’s done.

Nightwing has plenty of villains.
Look at the current volume.

>Court of Owls
>Raptor
>Blockbuster
>Doctor Hurt
>Professor Pyg
>Spyral and Mister Minos
>Tiger Shark
>Raptor and Pigeon
>The Judge
>~~Ric Era~~
>Court of Owls and Talon
>Joker
>Heartless
>Blockbuster
>Tony Zucco
>Double Dare
>More Blockbuster
>More Heartless
>EVEN MORE HEARTLESS

And now we're at the current era, where Watters is knocking it out the park with the Cirque du Sin.

>>150712093
I mostly just want the volume to get at least 154 issues so it’ll beat the 1996 volume so I’m hoping Watters stays on that long.

>>150711771
Cool, but he’s still not a good character or an interesting one.

>>150712160
Raptor and Judge were good characters, I wish they would be brought back

>>150711771
Based and DickPilled.

>>150712160
Seeley's run is really underrated in terms of villain exposure. All he needed was a Deathstroke story and he'd have covered every major Nightwing villain of the modern era.

>>150712160
I wish Heartless had had a good writer because some of the stuff he had going on was cool and he could've easily stayed as Dick's Lex Lthor type villain but Taylor didn't know how to write a smart villain so he just made Dick dumb as hell instead.

>>150712160
All of those except Raptor suck though. And even then on paper Raptor sucks (Dick's mom stalker who ended up stalking him after she died), Seeley just somehow managed to make him entertaining.

>>150712160

Half of those are Batman villains that Dick is borrowing.

Bruce is Dying and Dick is taking the mantle and Passing to Terry whom tells Damian that his father wont be out of action for too long, becayse he is the Batman, and death isnt stopping him

>>150714890
CoO/Talon, Tiger Shark, and Pyg were created for Dick though

>>150707547
Fujos ruined him.

>>150707649
>Titans mythos
>more interesting.

LOL sure it is

>>150711949
>Where do you put Someone like Red Hood
Into the trash bin.

>>150715954
>Pyg
>created for Dick

Just because Dick was borrowing Batman's cape for the week when Pyg first appeared doesn't mean he's a Nightwing villain suddenly, He's a Batman villain.

And Court of Owls? How retarded are you? Explicitly created for Batman.

>>150711949
>massive normie appeal

Appearing in videogames does not mean anyone WANTS him to appear in videogames.

>>150711771
>And yet, after the batgod, he's the best known Gotham reflated character there is
Objectively wrong. Many of Batman's rogues are in the public consciousness and are instantly recognizable to most people; the same cannot be said of Dick. Very few people outside of comic readers, fujos, or niche audiences who watched the direct to DVD DC movies have any idea who he is.

>>150716208
>who watched the direct to DVD DC movies
For them he's the funny guy who jobs immediately and does nothing for the rest of the movie.

>>150711726
Is that because they actually like Jason or because he's a more memeable character. Like people were amused at his appearance in JL vs Godzilla being him attempting to snipe one of the kajiu against Batman's orders, failing and making things worst then getting punched out by Barbara and being knocked out for the entire rest of the comic but that's just taking the piss out of him

>>150711873
The problem is they just be redundant in the JL unless the story specifically takes the usual members of the Trinity, Flash a GL and one or two others they stick in there out and that will never last long.

Because at the end of the day he's just a happier Batman with no cape and sticks. So long as Bruce is around Dick will always be in his shadow.

>>150716282
He was basically the main character of the Judas Contract film and then had the other film where he was Batman for most of it because Bruce was MIA

>>150708071
I'm a Nightwing fan but no intelligent person would claim John Stewart is less interesting than him

>>150716188
Court of Owls was created for Dick. They were meant to be the next arc after Black Mirror before the reboot. Snyder even foreshadowed it in Black Mirror, as in one of the issues there's a page with an owl flying on it.

>>150716369
>>150711873
Cyborg/Beast Boy/Raven/Starfire are just too associated with the Titans to really have a long-term spot in the JL. Take into account DC and Warner really tried to make people associate Cyborg with the League instead of the Titans for a decade and it was a failure.

Meanwhile as you said Dick/Donna/Roy/Garth are basically redundant in the League because their mentors are more popular. Flash's sales also seem to have tanked ever since Wally came back so I think it's only a matter of time before Barry Allen returns as the main Flash and they kick out Wally as well.

>>150716831
>Cyborg/Beast Boy/Raven/Starfire are just too associated with the Titans to really have a long-term spot in the JL
They should just transition from Teen Titans to Adult Avengers or something.

>>150716188
>calls other retarded
>doesn’t know Court of Owls became a Bruce villain because of the fucking reboot
CoO was gonna be next arc after Black Mirror retard

>>150716847
You can’t do that, think of the brand!

Apparently, now DC wants to push Cassandra Cain instead.
Fucking monkey paw if I ever heard one.

>>150707649
FPBP

>>150717211
>>150716505
It's still retarded to call Court of Owls a Nightwing villain. Original intentions don't matter. The Court of Owls only have one story anybody gives a crap about and it sure as hell doesn't star Dick Grayson.

It's also not even really true because Snyder admitted the Court of Owls arc he had envisioned for Dick was very different and didn't really work. It also didn't go very far because he learned because he was taking over the Batman book with Bruce a year in advance (he didn't know N52 was going to be a reboot though).

Why do you want Dick in DC KO?
this is Superman event and Superman will be the winner and you want what? Superman to fight Dick and Dick to lose to Superman?

Superman would never do this, no matter what

that is why you dont have his son and Dick in there

and Batman will lose against Jason/Damian so Superman vs Batman wont happen

>>150707547
>A-listers
Are not determined by popularity or sales. A-lister just means you are the main character in an original franchise/brand and Dick is not that. He is a Batman's character so unless Batman get the rope and Dick replaces him for real it's not happening.
>>150716195
> voted into the rooster for Injustice 2
> most anticipated playable character for GK

Nightwing is a B level identity with a A level character under the mask. The reason Nightwing is in the position he is in is because of all the history the character had created before when he was Robin.

>>150707547
When did he became the Nightwing?

>>150707649
I like Priest but he's full of shit here

>>150707547
Nightwing is an awesome name.

>>150716188
>>150716505
>>150717396
Semanthics aside the court is as much as a shared Batman/Nightwing villian as Slade is
they have been hyperfocus on trying to make Dick a Talon for a while, not not mention the Grayson grandpa being one, pretty much the only reason Dick isn't part of the court is because Bruce beat them to the punch

>>150716195
Jason is unironically the most popular Robin besides maybe Dick, denying it doesn't so anyone favors
i asure you if Jason wasnt popular he would be dead right now instead of on a limbo of writters not knowing what to do with him

If I had to make a guess, Nightwing is probably falling off because a lot of recent approaches and adaptations to the Bat mythos have made his hero's journey way blander.
Namely, a specific recent change to Bruce. You go back to the 80s and 90s when Dick is becoming Nightwing.
Bruce never really set out to be Dick's father figure, it's a role he fell into. Bruce is a very flawed and emotionally guarded man. Dick finds himself comparable to a child soldier.
Dick has to go on this whole journey finding himself and realizing he doesn't wanna be the dark tortured vigilante who builds a million walls around himself like Bruce does. He also realizes that Bruce did what he did so Dick would avoid that fate. Nightwing is born. They reconcile.

The Dark Knight movies created a sort of rubber band effect. Everything got so dark and edgy to the point of being grating. Then a lot of Bat Fan's after it began trying to portray Bruce as a more and more straightforward hero. Not in the sense of a lighter take but in the sense that they began underplaying a lot of Bruce's psychological issues which had been overplayed.
In a world where Bruce doesn't have those flaws, the Nightwing story is boring. In a world where those flaws and edginess are overplayed, Nightwing's story makes no sense.
If anything, I'd say Dick's ultimate journey to Nightwing is the sign that any given Batman re-telling hit he balance right. Having him call out Bruce's shit and rejecting the darkness of Batman while still coming to admire and appreciate Bruce in a satisfactory way is a sign that you've gotten the duality of it all down.

>>150720106
>so dark and edgy
>Dark Knight movies
naw

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Turn Dick into a cute girl and turn Barbara into a handsome boy and have them go on adventures and dates

>>150707547
Night of the Wing.

>>150707547
Flopwing is a flop

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>>150720106
Robin nightwingn is more well known and watched by kids then batman.

The comic version that fluctuates between bitchmade cuck and sociopathic self unaware retard has nothing to do with then iconic version ifnthe character tgat luves in the collective consciousness of the world.

Even Bruce timm is soft blackballed from batman because he created a version of the bat mythos that was eternally at odds with that iconic mythos.

>>150719781
No one wants the narrative equivalent of this. Its a nightwing only thing.
Slade vs nightwing works because its iconic with the irl normies.
The out of touch comic grandpas desperate to keep everything bat adjacent is why DC is dying.

Just play up the two fisted heroic action star and man whore angle. An on again off again flirty thing with oracle rather then being a couple would be more fun.

>>150707547
Bump

So are they going to relaunch it with a new #1 soon? It is DC's longest unrelaunched book at the moment.

>>150723430
They probably will once Watters is done. As for when he’s done who knows, they didn’t give him a KO tie in like Aquaman/Titans/Flash to help bump sales and he said he’s started scripting past issue 18 so he’s getting 24-30 issues minimum

>>150707547
the Nightwing book was good for a while
then it wasn't, so I stopped buying it

>>150711644
oh shit is there a world's finest with Dick and Kara

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>>150707547
How does Nightwing not have his own show? they give Batgirl and every other Bat villain one but not him
No that abortion of a show Titans should not count