does suffering build character?
Comics keep forgetting that they started off as really goofy. For so fucking long they want to convince the world how edgy and grown up they are, causing their product to suffer. Meanwhile, Eastern Media has no problem embracing its goofy self and still being respected by so many people.The Watchmen and Frank Miller's The Dark Knight have done irreversible damage to Marvel/DC Comics
yeah, I'm a prime example
>>150733744It can, but it also can completely destroy your character
>>150733995Didn't say it had to be a good character
>>150734108I understand now. Destruction is a form of building too.
>>150733903>Just because you are a character, doesn't mean you have character
>>150733744Suffering IS character.
It depends on what the writer's point is. Are they using the character's suffering as part of a story arc or are they just writing a bunch of edgy stuff with no other purpose other than to be shocking?
>>150733891This is such a onions post. One of the best selling manga in Japan is Golgo 13, a serious story about an assassin. Let's not forget about Berserk. Get your hopecore Fraction Batman ass out of here
>>150734794Continuing from this, I'm tired of this shit, the idea that comics need to be heckin optimistic and silly all the time.
>>150734794>>150734830Fag
>>150734848I'd say the person complaining about any semblance of darkness in comics is the limp wristed one
>>150733744No. Just look at modern Spider-man.
it does
>>150734884You also are
>>150733744It can. It can also crush character
We’re getting gi robot kino next episode for sure.
>>150734794>This is such a onions post. One of the best selling manga in Japan is Golgo 13, a serious story about an assassinGolgo 13's goofiness runs a bit of a gambit. I remember one chapter literally has him "assassinate" the winning votes for Gore in 2000. Yes, really.
>>150734794And some of the even biggest selling manga is about a guy with stretchy arms>complaining about "hopecore" characters again>implying superheroes can't inspire you to hope for a better tomorrowCynical faggots like you are why things are so shit
>>150734884No one else is crying but you anon
>>150736800I think there should be both is my thing. There should be beacons of optimism like Superman but there should also be darker comics too. If comics can't run the gamut from hopeful and silly to dark and serious then it severely limits their creative potential
>>150736416>Golgo 13's goofiness runs a bit of a gambit.Posts like this are a diamond dozen in this doggy dog world.
>>150733744
>>150736857Also what shortage is there of optimistic characters or books post 1986? All-Star Superman, Marvels, New Frontier, etc.
>>150733744Yes but you do eventually need to swing the pendulum the other way, suffering itself just becomes numb
We'll see tomorrow.
>>150733744Not really. Its a narrative excuse to change a character or say see they were hurt so you have to excuse them being shit!!
>>150733744Do you agree with this question; with the multiversal stuff they could have adapted Pax Americana
>>150734794>Let's not forget about BerserkOh you mean the story that after 30 fucking years still isn't done amd killed its creator
>>150738136They could have, but the show would’ve probably been received more poorly since Pax Americana is kind of up it’s own ass.
>>150733891>example is from a 60s adaptation of a title that began in the 30s and had gone through many changesComics were more serious at first.The problem with this culture, since its based on commercial values, is that properties are put on a pedestal instead of being used as a foundation to build upon. DC keeps selling Watchmen in variations, cranking out prequels and crossovers, instead of mandating that a portion of their output be about that level of quality (though technically, they kind of tried with Vertigo). Watchmen and TDKR were built upon prior works to get to where they're at. Your ilk keeps putting blame on the ones that did it right for what others do wrong, and that's stupid.Manga does so well because they more or less build on each other. They also balance light and shade. They don't go full goofball unless it's a comedy series.
>>150733744It can but it can also backfire. It all depends on how the character acts after the suffering.
>>150738211The one that got worse the funnier the author tried to be.
>>150733744In a way.
>>150738136A very touchy subject nowadays. Gunn doesn't have anything to speak on it and doesn't have the balls to adapt it.
>>150738136i wish theyd had adapted or shown that scene of the alt peacemaker doing that.
>does suffering build character?how you react to and what you make of it does
>>150740580is this a good reaction?
>>150740629depends how mentally fragile the character is
>>150740629Guy effectively saw his dad and brother die violently twice. That will do it.
I like how they just don't touch on Blue Dragon saying he went over to the other universe once and saw White Dragon. He just left and White Dragon didn't care?
>>150740840they just saw eachother and choose to ignore it since its a fucking creepy concept.
>>150740840He mentioned they interacted briefly. There has to be more to the mirror room. Considering neither version of Auggie seems like a capable scientist or engineer. Someone had to make the gear for them.
>>150740629John Cena’s acting has been pretty good. Much better than the Rock at least.
>>150740840I think other Auggie probably did some fucked up glare and good Auggie just came to the conclusion that that guy was fucked up.
>>150740840>I like how they just don't touch on Blue DragonCome on, i don’t think it’s such a bad game.
>>150741010He saw himself with a mullet and came to the conclusion he was evil
>>150733744sometimes, suffering just builds sufferingthe belief that one can only better themselves through negative experience can lead to an unhealthy lifestyle of self-loathing
>>150735881>>150736817>unironically defending millennial slop
>edgelords have egos so fragile that they cant stand not being the centre of the world for 10 seconds and have to complain on the internet that they are actually really deep and important
>>150734830Comics shouldn't have just one flavor.
>>150733891I love how anime and manga are goofy and edgy at the same time
>>150733891casual hands typed this
>>150740629nothing a harcout blowie can't fix
>>150733744NO!
>>150740629This scene unironically got to me in a way no other capeshit was able toI used to think Cena was a fucking bore in the WWE, but the guy just surprises me every time with Peacemaker, damnYou believe that this is a man who's seeing his brother and father die because of you for a second time
>>150733891You are not telling me after One Piece introduces the 100th melodramatic tragic backstory where every character cries harder than Steven Universe over everything. Peacemaker is far more lighthearted than most weeb shit that’s popular even at its darkest.
>>150742628One Piece is inherently cartoony & goofy by it's art style alone. It's just taken seriously because the story is serious. And it's been running for 28 years. By now the stakes a much higher by nature. Peacemaker just soapbox browbeat the audience for being white christians by comparing modern america to the nazi earth.
>>150742628Having a goofy world that can take itself seriously is a feat. Yes, I know soijaks are cancer but this one illustrates really well how a show can be goofy and serious at the same time.
>>150733891Comics growed with their audience and adult kids wanted more edge. Manga also more famous for being more edgy and bloody. And the last thing - they know what bring more attention and it's not a comedy for toddlers.
>>150733891>You've taken something that's meant to be for kids and made it totally inappropriate just so you can still enjoy something you should have outgrown!Was she right?
>>150739165Nailed it
>>150742698>Peacemaker just soapbox browbeat the audience for being white christians by comparing modern america to the nazi earth.It only cries about muh waicism apropos of the Earth X universe, which was already a thing before the show.
>>150742932The only reason people see comics as a kids medium is because of Wertham. Comics like the stuff being put out by EC were immensely popular, and flash forward just two or three decades later and the UK is making tons of comics for late teen adult audiences like Battle and Action and 2000AD. The idea that comics are just for kids is just such a blatantly untrue statement.
>>150743012Again it's Gunn using the show as a soapbox to compare modern Trump's america to Earth X. It's retarded political shaming.
>>150743054Or maybe you just have a severe persecution complex.
>>150743072Nta but Gunn didn't use Overman or/and the freedom fighters so that anon was right, the point was political bullshit.
>>150743072It is blatantly obvious what they're doing. Again, Judo Master kills a bunch of innocent people just following the law of their world & says outright they love Jesus. It's not hard putting everything together of what Gunn is doing.
>>150743103>Again, Judo Master kills a bunch of innocent people just following the law of their world & says outright they love Jesus.So? The religious right is not synonymous with MAGA.
>>150743103Why are you empathizing with what was essentially a crowd of zombies chasing down a main character?
>>150743115>>150743191It's literally a strawman of conservative right wing americans. Who are more often than not going to be Christians. Gunn is painting them as racists comparable to nazis with the fat black bitch literally saying this connection. C'mon you can't be this dense. Gunn himself tried to make his Superman movie political last second before release by saying it's about immigrants & how they love them. The same Gunn who had red hat 4 letter logo wearing dudebros in Creature Commandos as the first villains.
>>150733744Sometimes, but other times it's just merely just pain.
>>150743191Why didn't superman kill the people working for lex? They were zombies trying to kill the main character
>>150733744what character
>>150743210Because Superman doesn’t kill people. He’s a different character.
>>150743207Meanwhile peacemaker’s dad in season 2 was a good guy and his last moments were talking about Jesus in heaven and it was treated positively. Sounds like you’re coping.
The first Gunn media I watched was GotG 1, and the last Gunn media I watched was GotG 2. I didn't like either.Who likes this cornball shit?
>>150743521People with different tastes in media than yourself would be my guess
>>150743211peacemaker
>>150743521People that are better than you, Ranjesh.
>>150743521I didn’t like GotG but I like Peacemaker>>150743103Judo Master saves Adebayo from a horde of people who want to either lynch her or send her back to the concentration camp where they’re keeping everyone who isn’t white as slave labour. They are not fucking innocent people in any scenario unless you’re a Nazi yourself
>>150743207So you think Christian conservatives want black people sent to camps? Normal people just see Nazis in a Nazi world doing Nazi shit but you’re associating it immediately with real world conservatives. Yikes!
>>150743521Me, I've liked everything he's made
>>150733891Watchmen is literally saying the exact same shit you are. The entire point of the book is that the cb industry stopped making actual heroes and the world became a worse place as a result.
>>150733744No. Character building builds character. You can build a guys character by having him experience nature and realize that life's important.Or you can have his family get murdered or raped in front of him.
>>150743102It isn’t. The show is about Peacemaker’s redemption journey. His dad was a fucking KKK leader that Peacemaker had to kill last season. The world where his brother and dad are alive and appear to be good guys but the rest of the world is nazis is a subversion designed to explore Peacemaker’s character growth and his inability to process his feelings and guilt. That’s why the entire goddamn season has been about him wanting to escape to a parallel world he found by accident that he thinks is perfect, because it offers him a dad that genuinely loves him, his dead brother that he accidentally killed as a child is alive there, he’s a celebrated hero by the public and he even has a loving girlfriend in alt-Hardcourt, unlike in our world where Hardcourt doesn’t respond to his feelings and thinks what they shared at the board was a mistake. And, keep attention now dipsit, because it’s a dark comedy show, Peacemaker was so enamoured by his fantasy of perfect life that he failed to pick up it’s a nazi world until someone else points all the signs to him. The season is about how you can’t escape your issues and problems. That isn why everything goes to shit when his duplicity is revealed to the nazi world counterparts: he becomes wanted by Nazi authorities, his dad is killed again by Vigilante who is against the nazi status quo his dad basically maintains by not fighting against it, his brother hates him because he accidentally got his counterpart killed as well as their dad, etc.But you ignore all that because you want to play an oppressed victim because nazis are depicted as being bad people. Oh boo fucking hoo. How revealing about what kind of person you are.
>>150743470>peacemaker’s dad in season 2 was a good guy and his last moments were talking about Jesus in heaven and it was treated positivelyI can't help but feel smug that I predicted correctly that earth-2 Auggie was as much of a good person he could be.
>>150733744If you don't turn it into trauma porn or pause the whole scene so said character can yap about it like an attention seeking ewhore then yes
>>150743967>against the nazi status quo his dad basically maintains by not fighting against it,By your logic, viligante should kill Chris and adebayo because they let monsters like Amanda Waller live
>>150733744MaybeBut you can’t just keep on doing it just because it’s an ongoing character so they get stuck in an endless loop of suffering and character development
>>150733744Good characters have they good days and bad daysSpider-Man was the leading example of that. He had shitton of problems, his opening issue has his father figure die because of his own wrong call. But he also rises again and again
>>150744405Wrong. Vigilante of Earth X was a one-man resistance movement against nazis and wanted to Kill Auggie-X because he just considered him a Nazi. Something that comically turned out to not really be true. Prime-Vigilante has no problem with Waller or people working for her because she’s just a government bureaucrat that was eventually kicked out and doesn’t act as a representative of a genocidal regime. She just ran black ops shit and Vigilante thinks that’s cool. He could kill Waller under certain circumstances but that’s about it.
>>150744405>like Amanda Waller liveVigilante said to Peacemaker after a threesome that he would have killed him for smoking weed a few years ago before it got legalized or decriminalized in the state they live in. He kills johns but not prostitutes because he pities the latter.There is no real logic behind Vigilante. He most likely doesn't give a shit that black ops commanders like Waller order heinous acts.
>>150741278Cope
>>150742830I didn't realize dinosaurs had significance with feudal Japanese lore
>>150733744sometimes yeah
>>150744629>because she’s just a government bureaucrat that was eventually kicked outShe is still working on the government doing the exact same shit. There is no way to stop waller without killing her. Also, saying she is just a bureaucrat is like saying nazis were just following orders. >doesn’t act as a representative of a genocidal regime. She is a genocidal leader tho. She wanted an entire country to die just to keep a secret.
>>150745971>She is still working on the government doing the exact same shit. Waller does not run nazi concentration camps. Try harder next time, dum-dum.
>>150738211How many of his writers has Batman outlived?
>>150744629>Earth X Vigilante was a one man resistance movement against Nazis>Didn't know that the Top Trio wasn't Naziswas he stupid?
>>150746574>Didn't know that the Top Trio wasn't NazisKeith and Chris of that universe were the worst of the Nazis while Auggie wasn't despite his best efforts to change his sons; seen when Auggie chastised Keith for chasing after Adebayo's brownies.
>>150746049>a random nazi is worse than a literal genocidal leader
>>150746574Do you think they were openly against the party line?>was he stupid?Of course he's stupid, he's Vigilante.
>>150746574Why would he know that? They’re public heroes defending the Nazi status quo.
>>150733744Which are we talking about anyway? The comics version or the James Gunn version?
>>150743704not much of a character there
>>150746574Vigilante is objectively stupid. He’s also very extreme in his opinions. Him killing someone who’s passively complacent with Nazi world would be morally consistent considering our vigilante kills people over graffiti.
>>150734794>Get your hopecore Fraction Batman ass out of hereIt's been literally one issue. Mindbroken.
>>150733744That thing on Peacemaker's head looks absolutely fucking retarded.
>>150749928How dare you.
>>150746574The sons were Nazis, the father wasn't. It'd be an easy conclusion to make that Auggie was too.That said, he's generally kinda stupid but smarter than our Adrian.
>>150749928Maybe he's a Jack Kirby fan.
>>150739165>Comics were more serious at first.by today standards no they weren't, still goofy and overly dramatic
>>150752398Oh.
>>150749928I disagree.
>>150733744>Does trauma change you completely?
>>150754653well, does it?
>>150749928you can say that about 80 percent of superheroes
