Some of us have heard the term "Great American Novel" before, but what would you say is the Great American COMIC?I would guess either picrel or Peanuts.
Calvin and Hobbes, easily.
>>150747168Alan Moore is British but I guess it counts since it was first published in America. TDKR is up there. I think Charles Burns' Black Hole is incredible
>what is the great American comic>posts a Brit’s work
>>150747168The answer would more likely be a strip than an issue comic. Peanuts and >>150747208 are both good candidates. I wanna say the original college era of Doonesbury.
>>150747168Amazing Spider-Man from its debut to Annual #21
>>150747168Watchmen's a good pick, except it's a British comic.I won't put newspaper strips under "novel".Let me think about it.
Nobody's written one yet
>>150747168>Some of us have heard the term "Great American Novel" beforeThe average 4chan user couldn't name three of them.
American Splendor?
>>150747168Watchmen is so vastly overrated when it comes to seeing it as a piece of literature. Every Moore comic is. Im genuinely so sick of seeing it because it reflects poorly on the medium when it’s held up as some intelligent, intellectually stimulating, genre-defining work. >>150747571Is that the miller-drawn annual? Cause that shit is fire.
>>150747972>Watchmen is so vastly overrated>it reflects poorly on the mediumWhat would you say is better then?
>>150747972>Is that the miller-drawn annual? Cause that shit is fireThat's 14. 21 is the wedding issue
>>150747168Love and Rockets, Maus, American Splendor, Fun Home, Cages, Donald Duck>>150747972Very funny to be shitting on Watchmen and then be so impressed with a Spider-man annual issue.
>what if superheroes were assholesWow this says a lot about America
>>150747168>what would you say is the Great American COMIC?
>>150747972>when it’s held up as some intelligent, intellectually stimulating, genre-defining work.Nobody with more than half a brain is saying that. But people with taste simply recognize it for being what it is—a great comic. I'd say at the very least, it DOES define the capeshit genre.
>>150748083>Very funny to be shitting on Watchmen and then be so impressed with a Spider-man annual issueHe's right though. Navel gazing shit like Watchmen is not what comics should aspire to be. I don't hate it at all but it's overrated as hell and Moore's politics really aren't mind blowing onec you're past your late twenties. Solid adventure stories with kino art though? Much more admirable and interesting route for comics and especially capeshit
>>150748110Nta but you are being completely disingenuous if you think that green text doesn't capture how casuals and comics media hype up Watchmen
>>150748110Watchmen doesn't define the capeshit genre because it's a subversion of it.
>>150747168People overrate this book. Easy to follow whodunit plot. Let's see...>Silknon-character>Blue cuckboring>NerdBoring>Evil nerdBoringThere are two good characters in this book, three if you liked the original Silk Spectre.Swamp Thing Saga is better. I can name 5 Alan Moore books that are better.
>>150748153>you are being completely disingenuous>>>/r/eddit>>150748160You do realize that in order to subvert something, you have to be able to define it first, right? Watchmen is basically a negative space from which you can draw the same whole picture.
>>150748153There are several factors that make it overrated.>ArtGibbons is by far one of the most conventional Moore artists.>PlotEasy-to-follow mystery plot.>CommentaryTopical and not as overwhelming or subtle as his other works.>CharactersThey are mostly simple characters. It's a 9/10 comic, but it's not the comic. People go crazy for it because it's a superhero story.
>>150748083>MausMaus feels likely, it won a Pulitzer
>>150748245That's like saying thirst is the definition of water.
>>150748083>then be so impressed with a Spider-man annual issueThis just tells me you’re a casual. The miller annual with Denny O’Neil is one of the best single issues of all time.
>>150747972You know somebody is a pseud when they say this
>>150748083Fun Home is a snoozefest. Cages is British.
>>150748099Probably, yeah.
Google what words mean before speaking.All great American novels are from 1950 or before, as such only comics before 1960 or before can count.Oops! They don't exist or aren't considered great because capeshit took over. So no one reads Westerns or Thunda just DC Marvel black tranny hero of the week.
>>150749700>only comics before 1960 or before can countLittle Nemo, Popeye
>>150749700>All great American novels are from 1950 or before, as such only comics before 1960 or before can count.What about Gravity's Rainbow? Infinite Jest?
>>150749700Black tranny stories do encapsulate the soul of modern America.
>>150749920Do you honestly believe anyone here reads anything but genre fiction?
>>150747289It was published by an American company, mainly targeted at Americans, set in America, about American politics and culture.
>>150750022I mostly read non-narrative non-fiction.
>>150750238Rare exception.
>>150748099yeah was coming to post thisnot even my fav Don Rosa comic but still
>>150747972Watchmen is a terrific comic, not a great work of literature. It uses literary devices and cinematic devices to enhance the story and characters, but deep down it's a Silver Age comic book tale.
>>150748083>>150748099American Splendor and Scrooge McDuck might actually be it.
>>150748083>Love and RocketsThis.
>>150747168Okay now what's the Great American CARTOON?
>>150747168The best runs of Spider-Man, Superman, or Batman would be better candidates for "the Great American comic" than Watchmen. I think Alan Moore would agree too.>>150747571>Amazing Spider-Man from its debut to Annual #21Like this is a good answer.
>>150752119I don't think so. Those are extremely hit or miss serialized stories. When I think of a great novel, its high quality permeates the entire work.>I think Alan Moore would agree too.I highly doubt it. He had a fondness for these older comics at one point, but I don't think he was ever under this delusion that they were truly great works of fiction, aside from maybe his early childhood. Once the kid in him died, he outright rejected comics being considered as "graphic novels". For good or ill, comics are comics.There was also that famous quote in which he said something like "Comics still don't have a masterpiece" sometime in the 90s.Harlan Ellison would probably agree, though likely with a tinge of sardonicism.
>>150752104Gonna be honest, Schoolhouse Rock
>>150752335I disagree. Moore put his heart into those books. It wasn't just a cash grab. You guys place too much value on his statements. Remember that every time he makes a statement during the launch of a new project...
>>150752448>Moore put his heart into those books. It wasn't just a cash grab.You lost me.
>>150752562Moore fans are a lot like Lynch fans. They go on about how these guys are above everyone else, but they don't believe they can be sincere.
>>150752335>I highly doubt it. He had a fondness for these older comics at one point, but I don't think he was ever under this delusion that they were truly great works of fiction, aside from maybe his early childhood. Once the kid in him died, he outright rejected comics being considered as "graphic novels". For good or ill, comics are comics.Well I wasn't assuming "Great American Comic" implied anything other than being good at being a comic. It's not competing as fiction with Moby Dick. Something like Spider-Man is a perfect representation of what people love about superhero comics.So I agree he wouldn't call it deep or mature fiction, but he does have a fondness for it for what it is.>There was also that famous quote in which he said something like "Comics still don't have a masterpiece" sometime in the 90s.This is a good point though, I might be wrong about Moore with that quote in mind. I suppose it depends on what "Great American Comic" means to people.
>>150747168Doesn’t this book poke fun at America a lot? And it was written by a pro communist Brit? Doesn’t seem very American to me
>>150752616Nationalism is gay
>>150752591I think we're talking about two different things.>>150752600I see. In that case, Moore did respect and appreciate the work Kirby and Ditko did in the Silver Age. He liked his John Stanley and Curt Swan. I'd argue something like Watchmen is still a better candidate because I find it more entertaining, and find myself revisiting it a lot more than any of those other ones. It's also a great example of a full-assed effort at making as good a comic book as possible. Main problem is it's not American.
>>150753026>It's also a great example of a full-assed effort at making as good a comic book as possible. Yeah that makes sense. As a self-contained story it's a better choice. >Main problem is it's not American.Though of course this disqualifies it as the GAC lol
>>150752647Blind nationalism is gay.
>>150753723National identity is bullshit. You can have your community identity, which is why so many people are proud to be “east coast” or “west coast” even more than they are proud of their national identity.
>>150752647Even so, a bonger shouldn't get credit for writing the "great american" everything, even if he is basically correct about the US.
>>150752104BTAS
>>150752104Looney Tunes obviously. If that doesn't count because it's a bunch of different shorts, then Snow White.
get fuzzy
>>150747168Dick Tracy
>>150753753Wrong.
>>150747168Frankly the idea that Watchmen could even be considered as such should be an embarrassment for comics as a whole.>>150748160It's not a subversion of it, it's a direct reflection of the comics landscape of the time. Guys like Punisher were already making enough waves around that time to inspire The Comedian, and Dr. Manhatten is just taking stuff like Superman #247 to its logical conclusion. Watchmen was basically saying "comics should move away from this edgy schlock taking over the industry, so they can tell actually compelling stories with new techniques". But nobody actually understood that so DC latched on to the edgy shlock anyway.
>>150753780I wanted to say that but the wackiness made that answer a bit off. I'd also say the Peanuts animated shorts could be a good answer.
>>150754641>ManhattenOpinion discarded.
>>150747168Daredevil Born Again
>>150752616several novels considered the "Great American Novel" highlight flaws in American society
>>150747168depends if you want a graphic novel/limited series, a ongoing comic book series/specific run, or a comic strip.
>>150755421Which of those is most comparable to a novel?
>>150747168>I Shall Destroy All the Civilized Planets! by Fletcher Hanks>Rip Kirby/Flash Gordon by Al Williamson>Prince Valiant by Hal Foster>Star Wars: Dark Times or Tales of the Jedi>Heavy Liquid by Paul Pope>American Virgin by Steven T. Seagle>Kill Six Billion Demons Book Four by Tom Parkinson-Morgan>Murder Drones: Official Comic>Hard Boiled by Frank Miller>Fear Agent/Tokyo Ghost by Rick Remender>100 Bullets by Brian Azzarello Idk you tell me.
>>150748310I'd argue that what makes it such a seminal comic is that out of all of Moore's work it plays with the medium the most. It's his most detail-laden book by far.
>>150755400which ones?
Criteria for being considered a Great American Novel:>It must encompass the entire nation and not be too consumed with a particular region>It must be democratic in spirit and form>Its author must have been born in the United States or have adopted the country as his or her own>Its true cultural worth must not be recognized upon its publicationWatchmen is disqualified for not being American and acclaimed on release
>>150755933Guess 90% of superhero comics are out of the running for the fourth note alone.Is A History of Violence a good answer?
>>150755933Did you just make these up? lol
>>150756162History of Violence isn't a very good comic.
American Splendor, maybe
>>150756234No, I looked up the criteria for what constitutes the Great American Novel. That's what Wikipedia says. Of course, there is all kinds of debate about even the very concept.If you're going to debate what constitutes the "Great American Comic", it helps to have some actual criteria.
>>150747168>Great American COMICno such thing
>>150752335>he outright rejected comics being considered as "graphic novels".Most aren't, but he proved that some are.
>>150755776Hard rain fallingMoby DickThe Scarlet Letter
>>150752335
Alan Moore LOVES Superman
>>150747168After some thought, Little Orphan AnnieIt is the closest thing America has produced to DickensLi'l Abner might also qualify with its satire and observation of American culture
