omg i love her so adorable
>>150870251not me, im christian and charlie has valid christian goals so she's based and would be welcome in heaven in our own world, no one is born a sinner
>>150870156>Alli Reich
>>150870156Verbalase, is that you?
>>150870156Made for weight gain
>>150870328im watching it for the first time after watching the pilot like a decade ago
>>150870349she could gain a few thats true
I want to dump a load of cum inside of her
>>150870156She looks like she gives great rimjobs
>>150870251>look mommy i posted it again
>>150870306Nigga are you retarded Charlie is the daughter of Lucifer and princess of hell the show promotes satanism even viv said so. So no Charlie is going to stay and burn in hell. Also the shrek gif is right.
>>150870912shes literally the reverse antichrist though? born in hell but not a sinner, just like how no one on earth is born a sinner except the antichrist, i guess the reverse of the antichrist would just be christ though
>>150870912>>150870962also there's nothing more christian in spirit than the very daughter of satan redeeming herself
>>150870962>>150871027perhaps im overthinking it but that's just my interpretation
>>150870962>>150871027>>150871085I need to see fanart of Charlie and Jesus braiding each others' hair.
>>150871362both would have some luscious locks
>>150870156built for instant loss
>>150871490| |||| |_
>>150870912>even viv said soYou know lying is a sin, right?
>>150870912The Antichrist is human, she’s a nephilim.
>>150870672Few hundred ;)
Charlie would have been better with long, sweaty smooch paddles instead of hooves.
>>150870251The show doesn't depict hell as a paradise at all.
>>150871861Part of me appreciates that what makes Hell so awful is that you are surrounded by the scum of the Earth after its been shat into an underworld where they have all of eternity to spiral into being worse.
Charlie did nothing wrong and is only in hell because she was born there. When she dies she will go to heaven because she's a good girl.
>>150872023Hellborn don't get an afterlife.
>>150872138Snake guy did.
>>150872183He's not hellborn.
>>150871564I am not lying based on the first season of hazbin hotel it was how she depict the angels of heaven as the bad guys meanwhile the demons of hell especially Lucifer as the good guys meanwhile. Literally in the first episode Lilith read a book to Charlie on how Lucifer is misunderstood. To my point of view this show represents the devil playing tricks to our mind.
>>150870372Hide away.
>>150870156She’ll probably fart
>>150872138
>>150873536Those two statements don't even relate to each other wtf
>>150873558If hellborn are forced to stay in hell forever no matter how good they are then heaven must be a lie.
>>150873580Okay then.
>>150873580Heaven isn't a lie it's literally right fucking there
>>150873196You are literally retarded and are the example pretentious assholes point to when they say "media literacy"Fucking no one in Heaven except Adam, Sera, and the Exorcists knew about the extermination, and no one supported it once they learned about itStop being stupid
>>150871861neither does the heaven
>>150873597yes and hell isn't forever
>>150873558The point is you have a guy in Heaven trying to commit a genocide because he's bored, but he hasn't been kicked out or fallen. If a genocidal maniac can get into Heaven over people who have been condemned to Hell for far less, then logically Heaven is a lie - people are getting sent there either at random or for some political reason and can get away with anything as soon as they arrive.
>>150873536What? How?
VaggieTalesI'll see myself out.
>>150873689It should be, something is seriously wrong. Eternal damnation is eternal, forever.
>>150873730Genociding demons which are made up of concentrated evil and damned souls isn't evil, it's virtuous.
>>150873730Killing evil beings doesn’t make you a maniac. Demons are not people, there is no negative impact from killing them. You could rip them apart piece by piece and you would still be morally righteous. A demon is a creature of pure evil. To stand against on in of itself is to be good.
>>150873733If angels can be evil and stay in heaven, and demons can be good and stay in hell, then the whole system is bullshit.
>>150873775>angels>evil
>>150873775Go back to your containment hole, d*mon. Heaven's divine order is just.
>>150873775Angels aren’t killing innocents. Are you really going to say demons aren’t evil? You wanna be an American Idiot?
>>150873806Adam explicitly stated that he's killing for entertainment. That's evil, doesn't matter who he's killing.
>>150873833>NOOOO! You can't kill the scum of the earth with permission from Heaven AND Hell because... you just can't, okay!Shut up, Charlie. Not even your precious sinners want to be redeemed.
>>150873833They’re demons, it doesn’t matter why you kill them, eradicating evil is never bad. What are you going to say playing Doom is evil next?
>>150873860Is playing Wolfenstein evil?
>>150873848They are scum beyond earth. Lower than the lowest, and their “king” is lower than that.
>>150873875You tell me, you’re the one that said killing for entertainment was evil. But I can see you now have to use this to deflect from the fact you realized how retarded it was to defend demons.
>>150873883I'm sorry but... I can't take you seriously.
Earth is Hell and Heaven is Oblivion.
>>150873898If you didn’t take me seriously you wouldn’t have engaged in the first place. You’re saying this now because you failed and have to cope by wearing the facade of smugness. You’re beyond a clown.
>>150873878Lucifer did nothing wrong. He gave humans free will. Something christians claim God gave them.Not his fault humans used their free will wrong. That design fault is on God. And what's stopping him from fixing it?
>>150873904Yes or no, do you think playing Wolfenstein is evil?
>>150873934Why would I? You’re the one who said killing for entertainment was evil so clearly you think it is. Funny how you changed tune the second your bullshit gets called out. And the best you can muster is to just double down on a question that fucks you over.
>>150873930>He gave humans free will. They already had free will, otherwise they couldn't have chosen to eat the apple. I swear you just spam retarded, ignorant shit like this just to get a rise.
>>150873930Erm actually, in the bible the forbidden fruit didn't grant free will but knowledge of good and evil. They always had free will otherwise they wouldn't be able to make the choice to eat the fruit despite God's warning.
>>150873930Lucifer did not give free will. He manipulated it. That is all he can do is manipulate and lie. It is not a flaw, it is something that one must live with and learn. We are ultimately responsible for our choices and trying to pretend that we are not is what leads to the fall. But of course you need to act like it’s everyone else’s fault.
>>150873968Whatever, killing demons is still murder, friend. : )
>>150873999It’s not, and you failed to argue how it was. You’re just being passive aggressive to cope.
>>150873999Technically no because the commandment against murder refers to law between human beings, it does not apply to nonhumans such as animals or demons
>>150873999Actually, it's more like an executioner carrying out capital punishment to a death row inmate.
>>150873970>>150873979>>150873984Em actually, in Episode 1 and Episode 5 it says that Lucifer gave humans free will.No need to get upset about it. It's just a cartoon.
>>150874007You're retarded.
>>150874017Bullshit. And you’re the one defending fictional demons and crying that them being killed is murder.
>>150874004I believe they’re trying to tell you that the actions Adam took were not out of a desire to actually do the right thing.Adam is using the excuse of them being demons to do bad shit. Doesn’t matter how grave somebody’s sins are, the extermination was made to attack with reckless abandon.I mean, I’m pretty sure they show a scene with a kid getting killed by the exorcists. If they really had Hell’s best interests at heart, they’d be going after overlords only.
>>150874017>believing that Luciferian propagandaYour father lied to you about Eden, Charlie.
>>150874026Yeah that doesn’t matter. They’re demons. It doesn’t matter why or for what reason they’re killed. It will always be virtuous and justified. They’re made from pure evil.
>>150874028Why would he lie to his precious daughter?
>>150874018I accept your concession>>150874017>thinking that wasn't just propaganda Lucifer taught Charlie as copeI'm laughin
>>150874038He’s the father of lies
>>150874038>Why would the prince of lies lie?
>>150874041Dang you gave up quick.
>>150873641>its all shit no matter where you goGrim
>>150874053I'm still waiting for a counter argument
>>150874041Christianity is a cope.
>>150874067You won’t get one. He’s just going to be flippant and pretend he doesn’t care to cope.
>>150874071Seethe harder, LOSEifer.
>>150874035But they’re not “pure evil”. They were humans in their past lives who fucked up, and *have* the capability to become better people. That’s the moral of the show-Redemption.And by just condemning someone without giving that person the opportunity to redeem themselves, you can’t exactly say “Well, we tried.” They were going after children.That’s why Adam is the bad guy.
>>150874094They were explicitly given a choice before death
>>150874094Hell isn't the place for changing your ways. Earth is.
>>150874075Lucifer is the light, he shines on all of us with his glory.
>>150874100Yeah, people fail. People choose to go down the wrong path, and they get punished. But if given the oppurtunity to redeem themselves-you know, the plot of the show-some of them choose to become better people.Without that opportunity, how can you expect them to become better? If you just give up on someone after they wronged you once, how can you expect them to learn from their mistakes?
>>150874094They are, their humanity is gone and their souls have been tainted by sin. It is why they are in hell. Damnation is not an easy thing to achieve one must bask in their sin to go to hell.
>>150874100>>150874108Sir Pentious literally proves you can be redeemed after death.
>>150874134They had that chance on Earth when they were alive and they didn’t take it. Hell is the consequence they face. > Without that opportunity, how can you expect them to become betterThey don’t and won’t because they missed the opportunity. They’re demons, they failed and are in Hell because of it.
>>150874140They have humanity, though. They’re still humans. They remember their past, the actions they took. They follow moral codes. They didn’t forget who they are, and I doubt they forget their mistakes.
>>150874143He doesn’t, he proves that there is something seriously wrong happening.
>>150874158They’re not, they once were but their souls have descended and were corrupted by their sin. That’s why they all look like that and not as they did when they were alive. They are marked by their sins and are demons.
>>150874155But they recognize their mistakes. “It starts with Sorry”? Remember?They have the ability to acknowledge their failures and faults.
Abel's fat boybussy
>>150874190No, they could have done that on earth. They’re not sorry they did it they’re sorry that they are facing the consequences of their actions. It’s easy for someone to beg for the mercy they never gave when a gun is put to their head .
>>150874197I want to fuck him.
>>150870156I've never seen this show, but I've masturbated so much to her it's insane. How does she manage to be so incredibly cute and sexy at the same time?
>>150874206But it’s very clear it wasn’t just out of desperation. It was very clear her knew he fucked up. If he really didn’t care about becoming better, he would’ve just as easily accepted his fate. Or just start fighting at the nearest opportunity.
>premise of the show is Charlie trying to find a way to redeem sinners>Sir Pentious proves it's possible>autists screeching about how the premise of the show is impossible despite it being proven that it is possible
>>150874237After he was in the bad place where bad people go and he was forced to realized what a shit head he was. That’s not learning, he did not come to some realization, he was forced to, and even then he did not change he still basked in his sin. The contrived nature of the show only allowed him out because that is what is required for the plot. He did not think he was wrong due to true self reflection but because he was made to. That is not the path to redemption, that is being reminded you’re scum. And feeling sorry for yourself post hoc isn’t making amends or moving forward. All that he has done will never be undone and all that he is will always be corrupt his soul is tainted, if it were not he would have never been in Hell in the first place.
>>150874259This show is as subtle as a fucking SWAT team, and people still miss the point
By this retarded illogic, it's just as right and righteous for demons to slaughter winners. They're not beings of will or reason, they just do what they perceive as 'good'. Going the way you're presenting it, you shouldn't feel any different putting a sword through one of those NPC's than any other. It's not like they have the conscious choice to make mistakes or have disagreements, they're just predestined non-entities. Fact of the matter is that eternal punishment for finite offenses is sociopathic. Should redemption take a fuckton longer and be damn near unreasonably arduous for certain sins? Yep, and nobody serious is arguing otherwise. But at the point where someone will continue to behave as well adjusted and moral as any winner compared side by side, saying that they then still deserve eternal punishment is just you deserving to be in hell for being a pointlessly vindictive freak.
I will NEVER side with demons, Viv.
>>150874259>I can’t argue about how it’s good so i will say it’s right from a meta levelOkay, let’s examine the shoe from a meta level then if you want to go down that route. It is set within the Abrahamic cosmology and takes inspirations from outside works such as the Divine Comedy and Paradise Lost. However what it fails to have is that it take a middle portion of the Divine Comedy (Purgatorio/Purgatory) out of the equation while saying that Hell is just a place where sinners go and not necessarily eternal punishment. Now that in of itself would be fine, South Park did something like that 20 years ago. However the issue lies with making Heaven an oppressive/tyrannical force which is fundamentally against the cosmology itself given that for it to work God, Jesus, and all the others are THE force of good and virtue. To go against that wreaks havoc. So in the ends this falls into edgy fan fic tier shit made by someone that is bitter about having to go to church on Sunday. This cannot be escaped or ignored. Now before you whine about autism remember you’re the one that wanted to get meta and this is a fucking board for the discussion of cartoons and comics. You don’t get to cry autism when people say shit you don’t like.
>>150874289>being forced to confront your flaws isn't the same as confronting your flawsA lot of words to say you're a retard.
>>150874289Yeah, he *was* a bad person. He *did bask in his sin. He *did* a lot of bad things. He also learned from his actions. He acknowledged the bad things he did, and focused on becoming a better person. And he was rewarded with redemption.Some people need to face consequences for their actions, before they’re willing to become better people. It might sound like a shitty excuse, but believe me, it’s a thing.Also, the runtime and number of episodes kinda limited character development, and also way too many characters being introduced.
>>150874316Your moral relativistic bullshit does not exist in this scenario since there are absolute goods and evils. Pretending otherwise is just delusional. The demons are physical embodiments of sin and evil. Lust, pride, greed, envy, wrath, that is what they are and why they are saturated in. To act like a being such as that is righteous is either delusional or dishonest. They are the beings whose role is to make people do terrible things, literal agents of inequity.
Is she hellborn or a sinner?
>>150874406sinner
>>150874406Her character’s still shrouded in mystery, but I’m pretty sure she’s a sinner.
>>150874370Jesus doesn't exist in Hazbin Hotel.
>>150874376>no counterAlright I give it in a way you’ll understand better. If your dad makes you apologize for something then you’re not really apologizing. So if someone makes you examine all you have done you’re not actually learning you’re being forced to see it. You have to get their yourself, it’s a big part of why they’re in Hell, they could not do it themselves. They had to have someone feed the all their wrongs before they could really get it. They knew what they did before, they were aware of the hurt they caused. But only after they faced consequences do they all of a sudden cry out for mercy.
>>150874406She deserves head pats.
>>150874381He didn’t, if he learned then he would not have gone to Hell. He is only doing that because Hell is a shitty place and not because he has learned the error of his ways. >Some people need to face consequences for their actions, before they’re willing to become better peopleNo, because then they’re compromised. They do not do it because they have seen the error of their ways but because they do not want to be punished.
>>150874370Ignoring the actual events in the show to cry about how it doesn't follow Christian theology exactly is the same kind of autism that had Star Wars autists trying to explain why stormtroopers are poor shots despite Leia explicitly telling Han that the Empire let them escape.
>>150874398>absolute goods and evilsPentious. Your turn.
>>150874430If he didn’t Peter wouldn’t be there or Peter.
>>150874463Contrived bullshit which throws logic to the wind.
>>150874406She's either Lilith or Roo. Cannibals are a bit of a sore spot, as you'd think they'd be Sinners, but they also have children and babies, which fucks things up a bit as Vivziepop previously said that Sinners can't procreate and kids don't go to Hell. If we are to believe kids could go to Hell, that brings up one problem however; we see plenty of Sinner infants in the show, a lot of them being cannibals; however babies don't have teeth and thus they could not have commited the sin of cannibalism, nor could they commit any sin period, so they wouldn't be able to go to Hell. It seems Sinners can just reproduce. It's also worth noting Rosie is shown being able to give a Sinner like Alastor an unusual high tremendous amount of power and work with him while he was still alive. Clearly, she is not a Sinner, so I'm more leaning to Hellborn (but with her possibly being Lilith/Roo, more likely to a fallen angel of sorts.).
>>150874447But he did. He got *redeemed* for a reason. He became a better person. That meant he learned the error of his ways, and fixed it.And some people do choose to enjoy the sinful shit, but it’s very clear they are the most evil of all. The Vees serve as a foil to the Hotel.And like I said, some people don’t have the knowledge on how to self-reflect. Some people need help in acknowledging their mistakes. Sure, some people might say “sorry” just as an out, but that’s not always the case.This is kinda what the show’s about.
This show is literally just doing what Disney’s Hercules and Xena did to Greek Mythology but to Christian Mythology It’s just an urban fantasy story about free will and romance
>>150874456No I’m pointing out why the show is poorly made from a meta perspective, it is not simply about following theology but in how the most basic ideas are ignored and just used to be made for fan fiction shit. Which would be fine if it was just a silly show, but when characters preach on the nature of evil and how the system is “unfair” then it becomes an issue. Like I said South Park did this shit, but it doesn’t try to have some pseudo intellectual debate on the nature of Heaven and Hell.
>>150874440Careful. She might bite your hand.
>>150874499He didn’t, you can say that that is the case but the only reason he is there is because the plot demanded it. He has not become better because by the nature of the cosmology in which the story is set he cannot become better, his chance was missed.
>>150874510I feel like the greatest weakness is that the show doesn’t really have a pillar to hold the ideas together.At times, the show want to tackle topics seriously. But also wants to be fun.The show wants you to feel sad, but then laugh seconds later.The tone shifts like Tokyo Drift
>>150874475Ah, so you're just going on a schizoid rant about your real-life fanfiction outside of the show's context. Cool. Cool.
>>150874522But this isn’t by the logic of our reality, and our understanding of the afterlife.It’s VP’s setting for her show, and the cosmology is what she makes of it. It doesn’t go by the way you and I understand the religion.You don’t see imps running around and clipping people in real life.
>>150874528Any mythology or cosmology that is used in media has to be made in a certain way to be good. It’s either serious or silly. Like you can have certain serious or silly shit in either but you have to be aware of how it affects the general story as well as the figures and rules of the cosmology. Like say you want to adapt Norse mythology. Now there is shit like Marvel’s Thor who is almost nothing like the actual Thor and the same goes for the rest of the Aesir. But let’s say you were making a show similar to HH set in the Norse cosmology. It would have various pivotal figures missing and try to re-characterize others. You would end up with something like Baldr being alive while Loki is still somehow bound.
>>150874549You have no counter to what I said so you have to say I’m crazy to cope. Also I’m not a Christian, however if you’re going to make media set within/based on Abrahamic mythos and other works based in it at least get you shit right especially if you’re going to preach.
>>150874580Well, I don’t write the show. And I’m not a member of Spindlehorse. I don’t control how the system works, it’s how the writers made it to be.Remember, this is the same universe that depicts Lucifer as a depressed twink with a rubber duck obsession.
>>150874556It is since the Abrahamic mythos exists within our reality. And just because Viv can’t put in the effort doesn’t mean that it’s okay or good. >and the cosmology is what she makes of itIt’s not since she is ultimately basing on something that she didn’t make nor had any hand in making. >You don’t see imps running around and clipping people in real lifeBut there is the Bible and other works both ecclesiastical and secular that tell and show how things are.
>>150874607Their own lack of writing ability is self evident. The more they try to do serious endeavors and stories the more they will fail.
>>150874259Well to be fair, characters in the show are fucking moronic about it too. The Speaker of God literally tells Sera in the second episode (which was leaked) that Sinners can redeem, only for Sera to flatout ignore this information and not know what to do other than seal Heaven.
>>150874633I’m not saying it’s okay. She could’ve done better research, or used another setting, but that’s on her, not me. I know she’s a bad writer, but she has somewhat of a point.And I know it’s a biblically-based show, but you and I both know she takes a lot of liberties with the religious setting. It’s very inaccurate, to say the least.
>>150874700She done anything. The way things are present are childish and utterly amateur. Dante basically wrote self insert fan fiction where he punishes people he doesn’t like, meets his hero, and goes to Heaven with his waifu and it ended up becoming a classic due to how it presented itself and how it’s put together. None of this is here. This goes beyond liberties and into straight up incompetence willful or otherwise.
>>150874740Well, that’s the thing. As much as I’d have liked this show to be a really analytic understanding of good and evil, it’s a show with a bunch of singing twinks.Though, I feel that the development of her work is severely hampered by the lack of episodes and runtime available. Maybe if she had a lot more episodes, we might actually see something Emmy-worthy.I don’t write the show. Don’t shoot the messenger.
>>150874763And that’s the issue, it should have just been singing twinks, now discussion on the nature of good and evil, or Heaven and Hell, just singing twinks and people swearing and killing.
>>150874800Yeah…. That’s really her Achilles heel.She can’t exactly write the show without severe tonal whiplash, so when she tries to get serious about a topic, it feels really jarring.For example, Moxxie’s mom getting killed and then dildos start popping up all over Crimson’s house.She really doesn’t know how to pull that off at all.
I fucking love Lucifer.
>>150874899I liked him until he said “Take that, Depression!”That shit made my entire body cringe.
>>150873930>>150873979Milton Friedman is not biblical Canon (thus, neither is Hazbin ofc lmao) but still Charlie would definitely be heaven bound compared to any other hell soul in the show
>>150874259the problem with "redeeming sinners" is that it doesn't work if Pentious turns out to be a dindu (as the leaks suggest) and it gets worse the more you think about it>if Pentious really DID fuck up hard enough to go to Hell, then his "redemption" isn't really redemption because it hinges on self-sacrifice rather than actual reformation/repentance and healing for what he has done to others>if Pentious DIDN'T do anything too bad to deserve being sent to Hell, then the process of self-sacrificial "redemption" comes across more like going around a systemic error/feature that still doesn't actually account for the people who DID deserve to go to Hell (what about their victims who are in Heaven: how is this fair to them?)>it's all ultimately a moot point because Earth, Hell, and Heaven are shown as being all shitshows with different colors of paint so what's the point
>>150874899Hazbin Hotel's Stolas.
>>150870912BTW I looked this up and Viv said the exact opposite
>>150874989Objection, Angel Dust exists
>>150874370the problem with Vivziepop's fictional cosmology is that Vivzie doesn't want to involve basic Christian theology...which is fine (after all, lots of Hell stories don't really involve Christian theology) EXCEPT>everything about Hazbin's worldbuilding screams Gnosticism (Hell is bad, but Heaven is imperfect/false) but Vivzie doesn't want to depict God in any shape or form (so we won't get the Monad or even the Demiurge, especially because Vivzie doesn't seem to even be aware that Gnosticism is a thing) so it can't function as a Gnostic tale>Vivzie's refusal to include basic Christian theology contributes to it not working as a Gnostic tale (in any other story, the characters positively growing and making up for their bad deeds would be the key behind redemption) because "do good, don't do bad" is literally the foundation of Gnosticism and how self-liberation is achieved
>>150874989Objectively wrong.
>>150875012Wrong, he's barely focused on at all. If he was, he would have taken over the show by now. It's pretty obvious Vivziepop favors VALENTINO over him by now.
>>150875058Well, what do you mean you say he’s “Hazbin’s Stolas”?
>>150873730>>150873775>>150873744Okay, from what I'm seeing, it's a sordid nonsense and ignorance to treat Heaven and Hell as if it were a type of class status or something similar... And frankly, I don't know if this is "coherent" with the show or it really helps to the plot.
>>150875078I mean they try to present it as if being in heaven is some class/social shit.
>>150875058I mean... Valentino is so hot.
>>150875064>originally was supposed to be more of an antagonist, but then is made into one of the main characters>takes over the roles of several characters, also making Alastor redundant>is another high ranking demon lord who is a sad "didn't do anything wrong" type>character is the same >wife issues>a twink >has issues with daughterPretty much the only thing he doesn't have is him lusting over a lower class demon, but he is pretty zesty still.
>>150875087I'm not even exaggerating;>Viv gets pissed off at Valentino haters all of the time>Barely talks about Angel Dust>refers to Val, Vel and Vox as "her babies">wants to make a spinoff starring the three V's
>>150875103I agree on all those points, but I thought he was made to be more of a side character rather than antagonist. Though I really wouldn’t use Zesty as a measure when Angel Dust and Alastor are there.
Okay, how would you make a good demon cartoon show/movie?
>>150875118He was originally supposed to be more distant, aloof and colder to Charlie, IIRC; with him not being supportive of the hotel at all and also more interested in playing a more "eternal chess game" against Adam. Lilith was actually meant to be a helpful mother to Charlie, who actually would have been more supportive to the Hotel as well. Likewise, Adam originally had Sera's role and was meant to be a wiser, more sympathetic character (he also looked more like a dragon back then). Funny how that is, really.
>>150875150So, some questions I have:1. He was less of a pussy, and more aloof about the whole extermination thing?2. If Lilith was meant to be there, why the fuck did they cut her out of everything?3. If Adam was Sera, who was taking Adam’s role?
>>1508751981) Yeah, in fact, it was implied he had more of a hand in the Exterminations. He seemed more apathetic about it all if anything. 2) No idea. Vivzie just hates Lilith I guess.3) Their didn't appear to be a Heaven antagonist at the time. The main villains were in fact just meant to be the Three V's from the start. The show also seemed more episodic, judging from early materials.
>>150875228*There
>>150875228That honestly would’ve been a better version of Lucifer. Charlie going against her own dad and Heaven would be angst to the max.But isn’t the show already episodic? I know it’s not as much, but were they stuck with a more Helluva Boss type episode structure?
>>150870156Hazbin Hotel is the most Satanic sinister piece of work yet. The Hotel is a Satanic stand-in for Jesus as a way of "redemption" out of Hell and it's fucking nuts NO one has caught onto this. That and somehow Heaven is bad because of the retarded in-universe logic that still tracks somewhat with sin and sinners but makes Hell seem more like a sinners paradise with a "purge". Also, fpbp >>150870251
>>150871861>>150871899>>150873689"Go to Heaven for the climate, hell for the company,"- Mark Twain
>>150875238Kind of? That's the thing, Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss both feel like they want to do both an episodic show but also a show with a ongoing plot all at once. It's not very good at doing either also.
>>150875394That explains a lot.I just get so pissed off that she keeps trying to do all this complex shit with>8 episodes>3 hours>And a cast the size of a fucking Smash Bros rosterThis shit is killing me.
>>150875263Heaven isn't bad it's just that Adam guy
>>150870251How is redeeming sinners anti-christian again?
>>150873775Yeah, the whole Hazbin Hotel inspired Lore is bullshit
I miss tom trench and this bitch
>>150875843I hope you stop bad mouthing a sainted man or you're gonna go hell, you fucking heretic>>150875263You're right, buddy, this shitshow is garbage and tries to glamourize Satanism, very poorly though
>>150876120It's an edgy animation show nigga, I don't equate it to the real Bible or any Christian teaching, but many nu age Christians make the mistake of thinking Dante or Friedman is biblical Canon when they're not, neither is most of Hazbin, but it's a fact that I'd call Charlie a flawed Christian, literally nothing more Christian in spirit than redeeming the iredeemable, even Jesus forgave the j*ws and romans on the cross, I wouldn't call this show satanic that's just blowing it way out of proportion
>came into the thread expecting sexy art of demon whore>religious schizo babble for the 1000000th timeFan-fucking-tas-tic.
>>150876172I have some OC art a artist friend drew me for my bday of Charlie... But I'm at work... don't have it on phone :(
>>150876163Yes, I know, Hell in the Holy Bible is very different from Hell in the Divine Comedy from Dante, in the Holy Bible, Hell is either an in infinite field always covered in myst or a massive dimensional glacier where you're stuck frozen getting filthy and icy sludge rained upon you in eternity, also, I know that is how Hell is depicted in both the Walten Files and the Gaslight, but I'm sure that both of those depictions are closer to the Hell depicted in the Bible than the Red, Neon and Pink Visual Diabetes Nightmare that is the Hell depicted in Hazbin Hotel, because at least in both of those the people stuck in there actually experience suffering, despair and torment and they don't get to keep indulging in their vices and evils
It's obvious Viv isn't trying to be accurate to any religion, so you can't assume anything about how the setting works based on religious texts.On the other hand, there's so many retcons, contradictions and plot holes in the setting already that it's pointless trying to piece it together at all. There's no complete picture to find.
>>150873196What I'm getting from this is that Viv didn't actually say the show promotes satanism, you're just interpreting it that way?
>>150876682I tried looking it up and she literally said the opposite that guy just had headcanon
>>150871791Long feet are sexy, man. But I don't care for the sweat and the redenned skin.
>>150874094Don't waste your time arguing with these kinds of trolls. They don't actually believe what they're saying. I doubt they're even religious. They just want to start shit.
>>150870962Christcucks believe that everyone on earth is born a sinner. This is a fundamental belief of all major Christian denominations.
>>150870306>no one is born a sinnerWhat?? Have you even read the Bible? Let me guess, you're young Christian that joined an affirming, errancy-believing, liberal church.We're all sinners, even from birth. That's why Christ came down to die for our sins so we can be forgiven. EVERYONE is a sinner, but nobody is unredeemable
I think Valentino would be a great art teacher.
>>150877519Nephilim is basically an abrahamic rebranding of demigods as well as giants. Most demigods are not giants.The sons of god (Bene Elohim) that had relations with human women were most likely actual divine children of god originally, not angels like they later became. Quite likely the canaanite pantheon.
>>150877586I'm just now noticing they all have the same exact body shape and the same exact Lego arms suits.
>>150874919honestly, if you cringe easily this is the wrong show to watch
>>150874165>I have no real argument, so I'm going to deflect to things being vaguely "wrong"
Why yes, I am looking forward to seeing her again.
>>150878266Bedhead Charlie is best Charlie
>>150870156how come the fanfics of this show are so good?
>>150879193Sex
>>150879193Name the ones you liked/read
>Hell is full of nice people deserving redemption!>like uh... a sodomite pimp>a cannibal aristocrat>voodoo necromancer>sex crazed criminals>and a delusion daughter who's about to commit the same sin her daddy did: overthrow HeavenNoooooooooooooo those heckin angelinos are so chudlike!!!!!1!
>>150880467Forgot the pic
>>150873740nice anon nice
>>150879193gimmie recs!
>>150873730In the actual bible demons are literally just angels that got kicked out for siding with lucifer when he rebelled against God. Some even hang on to the same ranks and titles that had as angels (principalities and powers for example). They are judged as evil because of their actions not because of their birth.
>>150873536Not sure what's dumber, that or "INNOCENT SINNERS"
>>150880467>sodomite pimpNegative chance Val gets redeemed>cannibal aristocratShe's obviously Lilith/Eve in disguise>voodoo necromancerSee first response>sex crazed criminalsSee first response>a delusion daughter who's about to commit the same sin her daddy did: overthrow HeavenLucifer never attempted to overthrow Heaven in this continuity. He was expelled for giving Eve the apple. Charlie doesn't want to overthrow Heaven. Vox does.You're retarded and a liar.
What is Vox was Chinese
>>150873805
>>150880369one of them was uncle adam by akumakami64.the most hilarious I read was aunty charlie's hotel by his_righteous_thunder.another one was sweet dream, first man by homme_de_unatco.I would add the best crack fic of this fucking series with beyond paradise but thats just obvious, shit is so bad is good.now onto fancomic territory...Project Nephilim by edo nova on pixivComfortable lie by VRompecorazones on pixiv and it is in english.
>>150877387How can a newborn be a sinner? Lil bro dindu nuffin literally
>>150881591nah, lilith clearly have rosie and alastor as her puppets, other than that everything is right on track.also lucifer in a way never payed for the fuck up that was the fall and isn't stopping his daughter from truly making an even worse mistake.in fact, I would love to ask charlie about why she hasn't made hell like heaven instead of essentially smuggling those pieces of shit upstairs.
>>150877387>doesn't know they meant mind altering parasites with sinschristcucks do not even realize they are fake christians and that true christians are science inclined.
>>150881944>ask charlie about why she hasn't made hell like heavenFirst you have to fix the people. Which is what her hotel is all about.Besides, she really just wanted to stop the exterminations.
>>150875283GO TO HEAVEN, AND TELL THE DEVIL I'M DRUNK
>>150870156Meh. Her pilot design was better. The red eyes and suit is trying too hard.
>>150875976It's more that its definition of redemption is as incomprehensible as its concept of sin is puerile.
>>150880369personally i'm enjoying that Cain fic that anon post here, it's not perfect but it's interesting enough
>>150881944>picIf Michael shows up he should be a dinosaur. Let lucifer have his rubber duckies, big bro knows where it's at.
>>150881794Lol how only Vaggie is happy
>>150882140You got a problem with Webster's Dictionary?
>>150882090>First you have to fix the people.I give her that 30% of all beings in hell will be redeemed by her, the other 70%? Yeah nah, worst of all they now pose a threat to creation too.>Which is what her hotel is all about.viv ruined indirectly that shit with adam being introduced too early and dying too early, as in thr words of certain chill skeleton..."do you think even the worst people can change? that everyone can be a good person if they just try?." that was what hazbin hotel should be about and by itself it would have worked, just get the sinners in and let both successes and failures sharpen charlie up, it was too soon.>Besides, she really just wanted to stop the exterminations.congrats she did it, she saved the city!...now what to do with the overpopulation problem? and what to do with the future archfiends? and what about those evil souls that will ruin the last place left in creation that has true peace? if heaven becomes like hell via conquer then whats the point in redemption and going to heaven?
>>150877542It will always come down to the fact that the average normie and even the average Christian still interprets the concept of hell far more by pop culture depictions rather than what the bible actually says>Well, so God sorta leaves your soul which just naturally results in suffering due to separation from god and therefore from good>When the final judgement happens you will be made to face the weight of your sins and feel the remorse you denied in life, again, a lot of suffering>At the end of time, after the final judgement you're thrown into a fire which destroys your soul and you cease to exist.>Satan will be thrown into that fire too, for now he's running about the earth whispering sin into the ear of man.That's it, that's what it is in the Bible. Pretty much 90% of Hell and Satan lore is just fanfic and the issue is even most churches still seem to allude to that pop-culture version. It's only now that the internet is around that people are learning that's not the case.
>>150882242>I give her that 30% of all beings in hell will be redeemed by herThat's good enough to stop the exterminations.Especially because it doesn't just decrease Hell's population, it also increases Heaven's.Remember, this was all about Heaven feeling threatened by Hell's population size. There's no actual overpopulation problem within Hell itself.Seems like a condemnation of Heaven that they're not getting enough good people from Earth. Maybe work on that shit instead of killing people in Hell.
>>150882243>Pretty much 90% of Hell and Satan lore is just fanficLet me tell you a secret. Don't tell anyone.The stuff in the bible is fanfic too. Especially Revelation. Can't believe that shit made it through the council. Should have been thrown out with the stories of baby Jesus taming a Dragon in a cave.
>>150882201if michael likes dinosaurs...then both uriel and gabriel definitely like trains, one for the function and the other for the speed.
>>150882140>>150882216It's pretty much this. Christianity operates on two core concepts>You get one life on Earth>Since we all have limited time on Earth and life is so unpredictable, redemption is an impossible concept by acts alone, you could start changing as a person while having limited power to act on those changes. What do we do with the changed heart of a rapist or a murderer when the consequences are what happens to his soul for all of known eternity?For this reason, redemption in the context of Christianity is very strictly between you and God who intrinsically knows what is in your heart.This is why the only truly unforgivable sin is "sin unto death", ignoring your conscious, running from your humanity, rejecting guilt or remorse instead of using it to change or atone before God.Which brings us to this >>150882243Hazbin is very different in that the soul is still conscious within hell. The big stasis before the final judgement is thrown out the window. In the biblical context, hell is something that happens when, independent of how you acted, you completely reject good unto death and commit to your sinful ways. In the context of the show, hell is the specific life you lived and actions regardless of whether or not you felt genuine remorse and atonement before God.It sounds ridiculous to some but look at it like this, how you atone before man and how you atone before god are two different avenues. A murderer who atones before Christ is still a murderer who has to serve his sentence but if he's genuinely atoned then how do we deal with him in the context of all eternity? Is his act of violence truly much worse than other killers like soldiers who we opt to forgive? These are things viewed by the perspective of God who sees things less relatively than we do but has far more capacity for forgiveness than us.That's redemption in the Christian context and it's a pretty far cry from what we'd consider typical redemption (redeeming acts)
>>150882389My favorite part is learning how much of the Old Testament is just the Hebrews blatantly slandering neighboring tribes and city states they didn't get along with.The "descendants of Cain" are literally just the neighboring Canaanites
>>150882478Christianity is just really shortsighted about the afterlife. It's just>eternal happiness>eternal suffering>don't ask questionsThey don't treat the afterlife like living.This show forces the viewer to face the question of why sin and forgiveness suddenly don't matter in the afterlife. Something that never made any sense because the point was only ever to control the living.
>>150882542I'm not debating you fully on that but there's kind of a reason.When looking at the historicity of the Bible, the New Testament only starts to take place after the Second Temple period which can be seen in how the Old Testament seems to exclusively use the Sheol translation, literally "the grave". As weird as it sounds the Hebrews were kinda just starting out on developing what the fuck the afterlife looks like by the time the New Testament even takes place, which is why you have passages of Jesus telling his disciples about Heaven and Hell, because word of it is really just starting to spread
>>150882331the issue here is time and incompetence from both heaven and hell anon.one, we wouldn't have sinners if lucifuck didn't gave eve the apple but thats already done...and heaven didn't help on earth.so how many sinners in her hotel are honestly trying to get better? also how the hell will she pull off the numbers when she just succeeded with sir pentious, and the snake fuck did it by actually trying and desiring to be a better person.by the time charlie manages to reach her goal, heaven will be no more than another hell due to +70% of evil sinners rampaging heaven and trying to conquer it...archfiends will rise and become powerful enough to harm seraphims.if anything, things are worse now than before.
>>150882478not to be /pol/ here but check this little tidbit left by our jewish friends.
>>150882524Friendly reminder that the Canaanites are the ones the Israelites were at war with for the "Promised Land". In other words the Israelites invaded and stole their land.My favorite story is the one where Noah had a son named Ham. One day Noah passed out naked and drunk in his tent. Understandable given he just survived the end of the world. Ham noticed and covered Noah with a blanket. For inexplicable reasons this made Noah furious and he cursed Ham's bloodline for all eternity. Guess what Ham's son was named. That's right it was Canaan. This whole fucking thing was supposedly started by a son giving his drunk-ass father a blanket.
>>150876172That's literally 70% of all boards on the cuck nowadays. Christians need their own containment board and get banned on site like horse show fans
>>150882620Oh this isn't much a secret anon. A huge facet of Judaism was their oral tradition and determining what was and wasn't really canon.Writing stuff down and creating a definitive canon was still a controversy by the time of Christ itself. Hell it was a core argument between him and the Pharisees
>>150882598Pretty sure Jesus just stole the idea from Hades.Keep in mind this was all written during Roman occupation.
>>150882676Probably not Jesus directly but you are partially right. What you're disregarding here is the roughly 200 years between the old and new testament in which the Jews and the Greeks had an increased rate of cultural exchange which is believed to have heavily influenced the Hebrew teachings and way of life by the time of Christ's birth.
>>150882671That explains why nobody wrote dick about Jesus while he was fucking alive. Not until decades later.
>>150881794If I was God in this shit ass trash show, this is the moment where I go ''Oh yeah! You do that to my kid?, I'm dropping the Holy Nukes, but before that, I'm gonna blast certain song in the embassy, because if all those sinners are you family, you little antichrist brat, you sure will be delighted to know that You Will All Go Together When You Go!''https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frAEmhqdLFs&list=RDfrAEmhqdLFs&start_radio=1
>>150881794My hate for Vivzie and her gaggle of hyenas in typewriters knows no limits
>>150882728ironically it was the romans who wrote of him.
My headcanon about Gabriel is that he's holding heaven together in the absence of god kinda like Big E and the golden throne and this is why he left Sera in charge of what happens in heaven and hell.
>>150882658...wait I thought /x/ was the containment board and as matter of fact why didn't moot never made /reg/ at all?fuck man, anyways on another note why did viv say lilith had a nicky minaj type of voice? lilith strikes me as a tj davis type of singer.and eve strikes me as a Iiana flores type of singer.
>>150882742too basic and edgy, no anon, if you ever find in that position or god was present then believe me that the appropiate response is going machiavelli on steroids and troll the shit out of them until you drive them crazy.also literally make them be observers in a new creation with adam having a factory reset with the exception of wisdom acquired then make them see how the world would be better with an unfallen humanity and adam third(first) wife in charge.then leave the current world in darkness and chaos via letting them make their own messes and have such fuck ups be a permanent thing.
>>150881869Good Taste
>>150870156I fucking hate hershe's such a bad character and all she deserves is to be raped 24/7 in her own personal hell
>>150881591the weird thing about Val is he loses redemption entirely because his antics were on screen and crossed the threshold.What interests me is like, are they literally just gonna do it that the "irredeemable" stuff is gonna be the sexual nature? What do we do with the literal serial killing cannibal who for all of Val's antics, has done something far more sociopathic?Hell, I'm willing to bet they made Alastor ace to sidestep around the implications of how most serial killers act on demented sexual urge.
>>150882478Not reading all that.The series obviously isn't based on standard Christianity. It uses it as a framework in the same way anime uses it to be foreign and fake symbolic.Turn down the autism.
>>150883071HEY AND I SHOULD BE THE ONE RAPING HER
>>150871027>charlie dies>goes to heaveni'd watch
>>150882898I so want Michael or Metatron to appear and lay down some law
>>150881591Sorry I made you upset, do you need your SSRIs?
>>150883071>>150883398lets say she...is used to rape way too much.
>>150882671>>150882676There's also the hell equivalent Duzakh from the persian religion, which they also would have had interactions with. Complete with an evil satan figure in Ahriman.
>>150874120Stole that shit from Apollo.
>>150884171>no counterargumentThanks for your concession
>>150882243The really ironic thing is that this description of Hell is infinitely more terrifying than the standard Fire & Brimstone version.
>>150881869>An Arrangement was MadeDidn't read it, but loled over the apparent beef between the author and AkumaKAmi64. If anyone wants to read "Pro-Adam" or "Adam Agenda" fics then AkumaKami64 is your best bet. Hoping he updates the one where Adam gets reset to Eden and decides to fuck off soon. >Beyond ParadiseI stopped reading at the gay sex chapter. I like his other fic about Adam actually enjoying Hell as a sinner.
>>150885677I began to read the beef and the sheer absurdity is making my sides go to orbit.I didn't even perceive such a thing since the last thing on my mind is reading comments and shit.
>>150885677>I stopped reading at the gay sex chapter. ah yes, the michael one...at least you didn't get invested enough to persist, at this point I just want to see how the whole thing with charlie will end.>I like his other fic about Adam actually enjoying Hell as a sinner.same, but I believe that what we lack is a fic were adam finally finds peace and jusy chillax in some beach on envy.I would love to see a retired old man adam just enjoying life with zero fucks to give, even more delicious if his absence is causing shit to become chaotic.
Why can't we just have normal threads?
>>150886015Shut up, faggot
>>150885891Funny thing is though, A03 comment sections are usually hug boxes and encouragement. FF is the site where everyone is just a massive cunt or Indian scammer. >>150885971Yeah, I haven't found anything like that where Adam just enjoys his peaceful life. There is Adam gives up by Sigilate_Shik, but it's more bittersweet.
>>150886015In a hellverse thread? NO WAY!
>>150886041No
>>150884520A lot of Persian influence is there. Like you said, Zoroastrianism.What gets really insane is when you learn the Yahweh lore. And that all these demons are just members of the canaanite pantheon
>>150886219It's like if a sect of Ares (yahweh) worshipers decided they were going to worship Ares exclusively in preparation for a war. (promised land) So they banned worship of every other Greek god. Including Ares' lover Aphrodite (asherah). This causes a schizm in their own sect so they butcher the half of their own camp that wanted to stay polytheistic. (golden calf incident) And then they declare all the Roman gods to be demons. (baal)
>>150886015Why can’t Viv make a good show?
>>150886685She's an idea gal. She needs someone to reign in her autism and do most of the writing for her.
>>150883001>going machiavelli on steroids and troll the shit out of them until you drive them crazyThat’s more an Odin thing. If it were Old Testament God then it would be as the other anon said full on fire and brimstone, heavenly host going down and pulling clean up. New Testament god would most likely just send JC down and have him sort of explain why they can’t be redeemed. Probably have an infographic and everything, and when they will rage and try to attack him only for his aura and presence to be like a mix of flash bang and fear toxin.
>>150873775This implies angels and demons are souls being judged, rather than just the staff at their respective domains. Get back to work and stop singing.
>>150886769Lucifer definitely got judged.
>>150886791That’s because he fucked up and went full retard.
>>150886799I accept your apology.
>>150886818Being an adult means you don’t get pissy and act like a passive aggressive manchild when you’re proven wrong. He was kicked out of heaven, not damned after death.
>>150886791He got reassigned.
>>150886886I was just making a funny reference, but you're probably too young to get it.
>>150886960Calling me underaged after I call you a manchild. How predictable.
>>150873930 Christ, this is why I hate faggot shows like this. Because it makes retards who think they know what they are talking about but don't
>>150876976Why do you think she's airing them out? She doesn't either.
>>150873930I don't know if this is ragebait or a legit retard.
>>150882816Yeah, and it was the Romans with one of the longest and greatest influential empires. There was a Youtube video that went over ancient history and apparently Rome had the highest literacy rates of the ancient world. Something like 20 to 25% could read. That and Rome was on the road to early Pre-Industrializtion.
>>150873775HER OWN FATHER is an angel cast from Heaven.HER OWN FATHER.That is how abysmal the IQ of this show is.
>>150885545I'm not gonna bother wrestling with an aspie screaming in his own shit. You can have fun diddling yourself with your tranny demon show
>>150870156She is, she really is.
>>150870156Glitch tourist here, is this show any good? Does most of the entertainment stem from "hehe funny bad word" or is there actual depth to the show? People keep recommending it, but it is hard to want to give it a chance after seeing this.>My name is Caine and I am your bitchhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsL1OgmjLN8
>>150889603 (me)I would also like an excuse to bully Stolasfag outside of the TADC general.
APOLOGIZE
>>150889603catchy songs, good animation are the main thing. personally, i'm completely desensitized to bad words because of 4chan, but there's a few good jokes
>>150889452Why are you obsessed with feces? That's a little odd.
>>150872183He's a Sinner, a Human turned Demon.
>>150881794So why does Lute blame Charlie for Adam's Death when it was Nifty who killed him? Hell, Charlie actually saved Adam's life from Lucifer.
>>150890994It's what you do when you're the boss and your operation relies on loyalty.If Nifty killed him, she did it for Charlie's benefit. If Lute came to collect, Charlie would protect Nifty. If Charlie went 'LOL it's all on her don't drag me into this', her enterprise would fail.
>>150890994Niffty was a living weapon operated by Charlie. Charlie didn't call her off when she asked Lucifer to spare him, so it's her fault.
>>150890982Why these random background pilot characters that we will never see again have such a better designs than the main cast.
>>150892599My king...
>>150891377>>150891892Nifty also only managed to do it because Charlie beat adam half to death. If a toddler starts playing with a loaded gun someone left on a table and someone gets shot, then we typically blame the parent
>>150890982would those two egyptian bitches in the middle and on the right
>>150890994She saw from when they were spying on Angel Dust that Niffty is a bit 'tarded. Love my tardwife though.
>>150873580>no matter how good they areGood by whose standard? Other beings in hell or the word of the all knowing divine creator of existence? How do they know whether or not the system is working exactly as intended and everyone in hell belongs there? Notice how no one who's supposedly "good" would rather stay in hell to help others in an act of self sacrifice or repentance.
>>150870251lmao! Saving this
>>150873536>Paradise only allows righteous beings because they put more good than bad into the world and allows them to live with one another without conflict.>Angels like Adam being dicks isn't even that much of a contradiction in context since his job is to keep a massive population of DEMONS in line. You can't have a pushover running defense.>Anyone who gets sent to literal hell and immediately doubles down on being a sinner instead of self reflecting needs to be there forever.
>>150870251I never understood this meme, are the guards the demons and hazbin fans are fighting them? Is shrek the demon fighting hazbin fans? This makes 0 sense.
>>150895038Shrek is the hazbin fans and the guards the demons if it wasn't obvious
Impregnate Charlie and Lute then DISAPPEAR INTO THE NIGHT!
>>150875283>Hell for the company>The company is a bunch of derelict retards and gooners.
>>150895741Man had no taste, what else is new?
Show for mentally ill girls
>>150893899>Love my tardwife though.What do you mean yours?
>>150874259People are too autistic and caught up in "but the bible". You think Viv read the bible? Getting mad at Hazbin for being biblically inaccurate is like watching Hercules and getting mad that Hera is his mom and Hades is a villain. You can say Hazbin is a criticism of modern Christian attitudes, but it's not meant to be a criticism of Christianity itself.>but this Amazon cartoon animated by a furry HAS to be respectful!! It HAS TO!!Grow up
>>150897438I just want something cool to happen and it not get undercut by the most poorly timed unfunny shit in the universe...
>>150897984That's a reasonable criticism I can agree with
>>150898003Also, the writing handles serious topics with the gentle touch of a SWAT team.>”Take that, Depression!”>HEY, DID YOU GET HE’S DEPRESSED? >DID YOU GET IT, ANON?
>>150898990Let's be totally fucking honest. That moment was done knowing it would be a "relatable" quote for the fandom to repeat.>>150897438The criticisms in the Lute thread regarding how the show DOESN'T handle the mythos are honestly way more valid imo
>>150870156This show is unfunny and objectively terrible.i am still going to watch season 2
>>150899949I get that, and I can see how it’s a bad point.But, it doesn’t get rid of the fact the show has zero subtlety.
>>150898990>>150900059the problem with Vivzie and her poor handling of Hazbin Hotel's tone is explained by how Vivzie doesn't really watch or read any real mature/adult books or movies. Everything that inspired Hazbin is all stuff that was aimed at kids/made for kids, or family-friendly. When she lists her inspirations they're always animated movies and cartoons, musicals/theater, or Tim Burton. Her older videos show that she's got dozens of cartoon and animated movie art books in her room, but barely anything else.Hazbin is basically just an edgy kids show but if it was allowed to swear and use sexual humor and blood/excessive violence.
>When you realize Adam was actually depressed the entire time and happy that the nightmare of his existence finally ended with the last thing he saw being the concerned face of a woman who actually loved and was loyal to him...
>>150900162I didn’t mind the Tim Burton designs, but those features got washed out by the time it hit Amazon.But, it doesn’t surprise me that she doesn’t watch any adult media. That would explain why the writing felt like it was stuck in 2014, and the humor felt so outdated.
>>150870349>>150870672>>150873480All correct answers
>>150900254He deserved better.
>>150900162This just seems to be a growing problem with /co/ in general.
>>150900352What problem? Not to sound stupid, but could you explain?
>>150900312Viv is emotionally stuck as a selfish teenager, and it's why Hazbin is as overly autobiographical as it is on top of being crappy wish fulfillment. I do find it funny how Viv has mentioned anime as an influence on her work, but she hardly ever mentions any by name. It's a similar situation with her apparent love of Homestuck where allegedly she admitted to never having read the damn thing.
>>150900396You know that Dana Terrace tweet that gets posted here every other week? She didn't pull that out of her ass.A lot of the people currently entering or making a name for themselves in the industry have no interest in media that doesn't have a more "fantastic" element and it's so bad that some of them could get filtered by something like Casablanca, There Will Be Blood, or even something as accessible as Jaws or Stand By Me. Much less reading a book. That is a huge problem. Imagine paying endless lip service to something like depression, anxiety, or oppression, then you can't even sit through a story that doesn't have to juggle these concepts with big epic wizard fights.Like, if there's a cartoon where the core heart of the story has something to do with a divorce, and then the creator of said cartoon can't sit through something like Marriage Story. Or a cartoon that wants to blab about the main character's depression and PTSD, and the creator can't understand the appeal of Manchester By the Sea.That is a huge problem. The only live-action a lot of them are watching is zany $300million blockbuster stuff. A lot of them haven't read a book other than Harry Potter. The well for inspiration is so limited that they want to handle all these big topics and mature subject matters but aren't super interested in exploring said concepts
>>150900628Don’t get mad at me, but I don’t know that Dana Terrace tweet.
>>150900628It's really funny considering that so many of them jerk off acclaimed anime and then go "why can't we have that" while lacking any curiosity as to what inspired/influenced their favorite anime (it's always books, movies, music, history, television, fashion, mythology, religion...at least, that's what the best stuff is inspired by)
>>150900705I got a good one. Star Vs and Zootopia. Right? Big anti-racism allegory everyone loved them.You know what's weird? If you actually put the allegories together, you realize both are built on the same kind of "white savior" narrative that a lot of live-action movies get absolutely skewered for having.Like, when these came out they were being hailed as proof that cartoons could be just as mature as live-action, while falling into a trope that live-action had been moving past for being an immature viewpoint of dealing with racism. And they'd know this if they actually expanded their media diets. Admittedly that was the "oppression porn" Oscar-bait era that even most black people quickly got sick of but there was a point not to lean back into the old trope.
>>150900901I really want pop fiction to move beyond "fictional race is met with bigotry as a means of drawing parallels with IRL bigotry" because it doesn't work due to being built off of earlier genre fiction where the xenophobia was justified.X-Men is notorious for this, starting with Claremont's run where he came up with the concept of mutant racism and Magneto as a Holocaust survivor (and inspired by an actual Zionist). People jerked it off back then and still do, even though IT DOESN'T WORK because X-Men was fundamentally inspired by psychic pulp fiction stories where human beings have every reason to fear psychics. And those stories always end in genocide, both sides dying, or one side being exiled or moving to a different planet.
>>150900992Now that you say it, there’s a lot of cartoon stories that involve genocide, but never really get into depth about the horrors of war, trauma, or survivor’s guilt as a topic of discussion.But, maybe it’s just me.
>>150900254>>150900351honestly...I do hope the hellaverse world is worse for everyone due to adam's absence.because that would be thing that would save this show, adam's death having a butterfly effect.
>>150900338There needs to be hundreds of more artwork of her as a braphog
>>150901070Well, yeah, Lute’s gonna crash the fuck out. I expect her to catch a body by the end of Season 3.
>>150901423definitely, but I feel like adam dying will have a domino effect and both ex-wives of adam will be the only people in existence to see fully what his absence will cause.lute is one of the many things that will happen.like a domino effect in which his existence kept it from applying but no more.
>>150901497I mean, we know nothing about what happened to either of them, but who knows?From what I hear, the Adam Lute saw in “Gravity” was a hallucination by Eve in order to instigate Lute to get worse
>>150901666Satan-trips pls
>>150901682Oh, sorry, my bad, I don’t know how spoiler marks work.
>>150901423>Lute's crash out concerns everyone in Heaven>Sera removes her from her position as commander of the Exorcists>Abel and the rest of Adam's family in Heaven has no desire to seek vengeance in Hell>Lute has the realization that she and the surviving exorcists are the only ones that care that Adam and their sisters are dead>In a rage she and the rest of the exorcists break out of Heaven and fly down to Earth>On some speck of an island hidden in the Mediterranean >There Lute meets with a mountain of a man who greatly resembles her deceased General>She pleads her case to Cain hoping that at least he would want to seek vengeance against his father's killers>Despite some initial gruff reluctance from him, Cain eventually decides to aid Lute in her quest>The two bond over their journey>Meanwhile everyone in Heaven and Hell are losing their shit thinking Cain is going to lead some sort of exorcist angel coup against the powers that be>In actuality Cain is Uncle Irohing Lute and the exorcists to a new path of healing and moving on from their grief
>>150901758No. That’d be too intelligent.
>>150895038It's associating vain narcissistic translesbian queers with being a fat, bald man who can keep his corner with physical violence and who also lives in a hetereosexual fantasy of accepting that people aren't pretty and being granted a happily ever after with a princess.That's probably why it doesn't make sense... because it doesn't.
>>150873580>iffin I's not a white then white mussin be a lie
>After another humiliating defeat by that insufferable blue hedgehog, Dr. Robotnik falls through a warp ring that takes him to the Hellaverse's Earth>Before any plans of domination enter his mind, his flaming ship falls through the warp ring and crashes on top of him>Robotnik wakes up in Hell, but finds that his sinner form is purely mechanical >He's immediately disgusted by the denizens of Hell who look sickeningly close to Mobians>He works quickly to set up shop in Pentagram and starts roboticizing the hellborne and enslaving sinners to service his machines>He also collects the body of the exorcist angel that Carmine killed and Frankenstein's her into being his bodyguard >Despite concerns over his growing power, Charlie turns to him for help in the fight against Adam>Robotnik agrees in exchange for some angelic steel, which Charlie concedes >The fight plays out the same in canon, only Robotniks robots are fighting the exorcists instead of the cannibals>After Lucifer beats Adam, Robotnik uses the chance to capture the Prince of Lies>Robotnik reveals that he's been waiting for Lucifer to come out of hiding so he can subdue him and use his power to fuel his expansion into all of Hell>Robotnik declares himself the new king and with his newfound power, turns his sights on the other rings, Earth and Heaven>Why reshape just one world when he can do all three before moving on to the rest of the universe?>The Sins are quickly subdued and become Robotocized guardians>Charlie, Adam, Vaggie, Lute, Sinners and Exorcists have to team up to take on the Mad Doctor>"Sorry Princess and First Man but, YOU'RE. TOO. SLOW! MUHAHAHAHAHA!"
>>150900254I still think he is going to end up being Vox's 'secret weapon'. Adam has way too much potential
>>150902243
>>150902505
>>150900628You don't need to minimize the high fantasy aspects. You can have adult wizard battles, sci-fi, or creatures, but most people only ever reading YA fiction and all books being thrown into YA fiction doesn't help. Even reading adult oriented comic books would help a lot of writers. I understand what these modern writers are trying to do, they want like kids high fantasy stories with adult complexity. They're not trying to write non-fantastic serious content. They need to be consulting books like Dune or anything by Anne Rice, not limited to interview with the Vampire. Even classics read in high school like Brave New World, 1984, and to some extent the Great Gatsby would be of use. >am nerd who actually reads>I'm really attached to the adult high fantasy genre>But I have to dig for shit to read
>>150903587Same, brother. Have you read the Wizard of Oz series? Or The Neverending Story? Elfland? The Once and Future King? The Last Unicorn?
What's Charlie gonna say?
>>150904278it starts with an n
>>150904278
>>150901758>Abel and the rest of Adam's family in HeavenSo just Abel then? I mean we don't know where Seth or Caine.
>>150901758>>150904688Also sorry to samefag but Caine would cave Lucifer's skull in and would actually have a chance given the mark.
>>150901990It's just a visual representation retard, it doesn't go any farther than that
Blake is kind of a dum dum. https://files.catbox.moe/yw0gtj.mp4https://files.catbox.moe/ognsrg.mp4
>>150870156>Just now realized the hotel is a metaphor for the prison system
Words cannot describe how much I want to kiss and snuggle Charlie.
>>150907878I mean, not to be rude but it’s kinda obvious this show is an allegory for rehab/reforming bad people.
>>150901758>In actuality Cain is Uncle Irohing Lute and the exorcists to a new path of healing and moving on from their griefWas based until you got to this gay shit
>>150907753BITCH FUCKING SPOILER THIS FUCKING SHIT
>>150904716Cain's mark doesn't actually do jack shit on its own, it just symbolizes that god protects him. If god does not do anything to help, Cain is shit outta luck vs Lucifer.He dies to a falling building
>>150908524Don't blame me. It was Blake.
>>150870156Funny cartoon but it falls apart if you don't shut off your brain. It wants to talk about the morality of burning people in hell for all eternity without really challenging why people who have done un-redeemable things should be given another chance. Why should some African warlord who has mutilated and raped children have redemption on the table to share a place in heaven with souls who would never commit such atrocities. The only way it works is if you portray all the murder and degeneracy in Hell as a bunch of wacky hijinks that don't have much weight, and that a lot of the souls are just good misguided boys who made the wrong decisions. The worst scene in the whole show is the one with all the overlords and how the arms-dealer we've been introduced for like two minutes starts singing her heart out about protecting the people you love. It feels so fucking corny and clueless, especially since its a duet with someone completely unrelated which just sloppily indicated that they were going to meet later in the season
>>150877387Not mormons, which is also why they go to heaven and don't baptise babies
>>150882542Only the dogshit sects, terrestrial sphere represent
>>150908823If you explore Cain/Qayin further, you'll find that some Necrosophic Gnosis followers revere him, calling him the Witchfather and the first sorcerer. Additionally, certain Satanists and occultists refer to Qayin as the Left-handed Reaper.it was a wild rabbit hole for me.
>>150870962>the anti anti christI love the anti anti christ
>>150900992What you really need to understand is that these cartoons with the oppression allegories aren't actually about social commentary, they're white girl power fantasiesThe 2020 protest revealed a lot about how white women actually think and why they're so prone to activism>So desperate to virtue signal they nearly derailed the Black Lives Matter hashtag used to spread serious news stories by posting black squares>Pretty much every in-person protest had at least 5 white girls taking the microphone and saying "WOE IS ME! MY WHITENESS AND MY PRIVILEGE WHICH I AM GOING TO CHECK TO HELP MAKE THE WORLD A BETTER PLACE LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT THIS JOURNEY OF SELF-CONFRONTATION AND HOW I MUST CONTINUE TO GROW!"Think about it, how many of these cartoons seem to have>White girl>Relatively privileged economically but is le LOOKED DOWN ON for BEING DIFFERENT!>After all of five seconds of checking her privilege she unlocks her TRUE VOICE and becomes the hero to minorities everywhere>This coincidentally lines up absolutely perfectly with sticking to the upper crust society which never hecking understood her.Becoming the social hero of the oppressed (who often double as the "different and exotic") is almost an adventure playground to white women. It's why they act like they're having character arcs and refer to navigating serious social issues as "my journey". In the past, white men did this and were eventually called out for it but white women like to pretend that something like Star Vs is any less of a white savior story than something like Gran Torino because "we're oppressed too and UNDERSTAND THEM!"
Its so funny how some days ago people here were talking about how charlastor was Viv original idea and she changed It to Vaggie for brownie points when in reality Viv is minutes away to say she despises charlastor on her bluesky
>>150903587To sum up how I feel on this. It's not what they write. It's the media they consume.A lot of the stuff they insist is "for adults too!" is correct but they forget to mention that the specific intent was making sure that the media was built around being something parents, siblings, et cetera could watch with their kids by being good often by taking inspo from adult media.Look at Puss in Boots 2, it had an entertaining adult element partially by taking influence from the Good, the bad, and the Ugly for the general plot and structure. And what I've noticed is the people who do this then act like the property is the most original thing ever entirely because they're filtered away from the media that it took inspo from. What kind of fucking person can get filtered by the Dollars trilogy?I know people with literal ADHD who managed to get through the dollars trilogy by simply pausing between scenes and coming back since it can basically be watched as a bunch of tense vignettes, especially the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.
>>150910863She doesn't despise it. It's probably far from her favorite but she gives it fan service a plenty. Or at least someone involved does.
>>150870306Everyone is born a sinner, idiot. That’s why baptism exists.
>>150884322I feel like the worst part of this is that it's backed up by Paradise Lost>where is Charlie and Lucifer's incest baby
It don't matter, none of this matters
>>150870251shazed brek
Lute isn't that desperate
>>150882742>god>giving a single shit about any human being killed>especially fucking adamlol no.
>>150910863What's Alastor's endgame?He's trying to escape a deal. Maybe a deal with Lilith to protect Charlie?Or is he just waiting for the hotel to fail so he can make deals with her for more power?Or does he really believe in her and thinks he'll benefit as her star becomes ascendant?He seems to hate Lucifer. His eye twitches with hatred when they meet. Although they both claim not to have met before.
>>150903587>>150910909I think Viv just sucks at writing but we're definitely only a few years away from a "plastic dress girl and plasting-eating crow fae boy" series.
>>150914281Did you not see the leaks? Almost everything you ask is answered on ep 4
>>150907753It's nothing we didn't assume based on the leaks. He doesn't explicitly say what happened, just the outcome of it. Which honestly, sound rather lame and without real stakes other than a character having a pity party for himself.
>>150914783Guess I'll leave before someone says then. I don't want spoilers. I want fun speculation.
>>150910863Part of the narrative is that she's flip-floppity and willing to play the audience for cred, so it's not against type she would discredit her prior design if it made her current one work better.
>>150914786We already learned from Vox's VA that he didn't die this season, so obviously the climax wasn't gonna be anything too spectacular
what was the story behind that video where charlie was chasing a black man?
>>150914984The black guy in the video commissioned it
>>150914997lmao
>>150914984The guy was Verbalase, a guy who did that thanos beat boxing thingHe commissioned the vid with charlie chasing him back in like 2022 for 48KTwo years later it gets leaked and due to inflation the price went to 50KHe still has a career
>>150914997Yeah, it was Verbalase. He paid like $50K to have the video made.
>>150914897>>150910938To Vivzie's credit, when the season premiered they were calling her a pro-shipper, a zionist, a homophobe, an objectifier of women, a crypto-fascist, a rape apologist and all this other shit and she wisely ignored it all. Even when the "My name is Cain, I am your bitch" and general "vivziepop writing" memegot under her skin hardcore.She at the very least has a grip on how fandom culture works from her Tumblr background. Don't get involved in the fandom's ships. Remember that the online fandom bitches about things literally no one else cares about. Do not, under any circumstance, assume that a bunch of weird twitter kids represent everyone watching.She's always been pretty good about navigating that to the point that the bitching overshadowed the more valid issues of employee mistreatment.
>>150914281I think they’re gonna try to redeem Alastor, aren’t they
>>150870156
>>150915116Didn’t she have to run away to Bluesky, though?Not to be condescending, but the criticism definitely gets under her skin.
>>150915138They really tried to aura farm with this frame, but she gives off bootleg Naruto vibes
>>150915116Someone once speculated that she got some sort of PR manager that told her to stop looking at what people are saying about her and she actually listened to them.
>>150915186The battle outfit just isn't good and she doesn't know how to fight. Feels more like it's foreshadowing Lucifer.
>>150915238Not to be rude, but the “Unlocked demon mode” thing fucking reeks of Naruto
>>150915264The whole power up transformation thing predates Naruto, even in the west. I doubt Viv was specifically influenced by it.
>>150915344You’re right, but…. Something feels off here.
>>150877387>believe that everyone on earth is born a sinnerThe belief is that humans are born with an inclination to sin, and a lack of the supernatural gifts that Adam and Eve lost in their exile. Personal acts of sin are not the same thing.
>>150915162Yeah but that's just it. That was mostly the "Vivziepop writing" stuff that got her.
>>150915437But the critique ain’t wrong, and if she could handle it, why the hell did she move to Bluesky?She can’t handle criticism.
>>150915186Doesn't help that she has zero feminine curve.
>>150914715Charlie/Alastor shippers are still alive I see. Too bad Alastor's next ship to be promoted is going to be with Vox.
>>150915486>>150915222My own theory is that her early 2010s tumblr background has allowed her not to react to the stuff I mentioned >>150915116 but she doesn't know what to do when it comes to people shitting on the actual quality of her work. She's from a place where she knows just how stupid and dramatic people can get over dumb shit like shipping or trying to insinuate something about morality because you drew a pair of tits. But she doesn't know how to deal with people simply saying "this isn't very good."
>>150915570I mean, she looks hotter in the suit. But her voice makes her sound 30, and she acts like she’s 10.Total turn off.
>>150910463>>150910463I don't think Vivzie will dig up this far, and if we ever get Cain in the canon, he will be both gay and boring
Charlie did say she'd be willing to do whatever it took to stop the exterminations.
>>150915670But she does react to it. Remember when the Homestuck pilot released and everyone was cooking her, and then she drew one of the characters as Alastor?
>>150915814Adam would NEVER downgrade from his adoring, militaristic chudwife to Lucifer's nepobaby who disagrees with his stance on literally everything
>>150915979How's the new arm, Lute?
Any of you guys going to the Broadway event tomorrow?
>>150916106
>>150916214Just so you know, you’d to have deal with millenial manchildren dressed up like cartoon characters.
>>150916338Make no mistake I know what's in store but signing up for a ticket was free so I went for it. I'm dressing up as Adam myself.
>>150916377Please tell me you’re bringing nasal air fresheners, Anon
>>150916449It can't be that bad right? I've never been to a convention before so this my first "many people cosplaying" in one space thing. Is smell really a big issue?
>>150916505>I've never been to a convention beforeOh you poor bastard
>>150916540Lemme call a few guys
>>150916505Anon, most con visitors smell like total shit. Like, the worst B.O. You need nasal air fresheners.
>>150916505for your sake, I really hope that Adam cosplay includes his mask...
>>150873775>You Gary Plauche'd a pedo, that makes you worse than the guy who nonced your son since you're oppressing him with your violence when all he wants is to be free (To nonce children)Compelling argument. Please face the wall demon.
>>150870156Oaky, what is it even about? Should I just watch it to understand the memes?
>>150916886Princess of hell tries to redeem people in hellSinging and hijinks ensues
>>150916886>should I watch the show to understand posts about the show?yeah, that might be a good start actually
>>150916886Shipping, the gay and the gay shipping.
>>150916886Hotel tries to prove it can redeem sinners to heaven so angels don't perma-kill hell people every year to keep hells population low so they don't rise against heaven. It's only 8 episodes right now and episodes arent even always 22 minutes you could watch it all in less than a full afternoon. Low commitment watch easy to drop if you don't enjoy it.
>>1509168863 hours of singing twinks.
>>150915814Is having sex with your ex's kid incest? Cause this feels like incest.
>>150917102NoDifferent bloodline
Why didn't (You) help her treat her schizophrenia?
>>150870251I feel like Hazbin Hotel actually is devoid of ironyDinergoths don't do irony like was big in the 2010s
>>150918766she's been through a lot, let her enjoy her dudebro tulpa boyfriend
>>150917102>>150917144>having sex with your ex's kidHonestly this is such a weird fucking dynamic that I now want more of this.
>>150919044Look up "God Says Feelings are for Pussies" on AO3.
Could Charlie redeem him?
>>150876096Katie Killjoy was so much better in the pilot when she was voiced by a woman, I hate Brandon Rogers' voice for her
This is canon for Season 2
>>150919411He's essentially formed of terror, so no, there's nothing to redeem.
>>150919870Still can’t believe Brandon Rogers was the one behind turning Helluva into a fucking yaoi.
>>150918785Stop trying to make fetch happen
>>150875150My headcanon is that the old dragon design would be Michael. I wish they went with him over Adam desu, he'd be a more compelling antagonist especially since he'd be more in the right/justified as the warrior guardian of Heaven. Could even add in family drama/angst if you go the route that Michael and Lucifer were brothers - have Charlie trying to appeal and connect with her family and both Michael and Lucifer wanting to reconnect because they both love each other, but are unable to (Lucifer seeing Michael as unreasonable and too stuck in the ways of Heavens rules so he constantly pushes his buttons, Michael seeing Lucifer as hopeless and forever doomed by his own sinful actions so he just commits further into his role and Lucifers adversary). God now I want to write a fic on this
>>150914048yet
>>150920336is that how it happened? I always heard it was Vivzie fujoing out and Brandon just wasn't actively opposed to it
>>150870156Wish Vivziepop had made her less naive and more nuanced, given she's been there for 200 (?) years already. She's too shallow and easily dissuaded. Those fiery red-eyed moments in her songs, I wish those sides of her had been explored more. That and the worldbuilding sets out to do a lot in the start, but overall sucks.
>>150921961Not just naive, but a TOTAL DUMBASS.Like, I can get her being sheltered and all, but she acts like a total fucking child.And I’ve heard people say it’s because “she’s ADHD” or whatever, which just sounds really fucking ableist for a “progressive” show.But I could rant about the way they portray ADHD and Autism so horribly until the sun rises.
>>150908823That would mean that anyone with power derived from the divine would be powerless. And its not just protection but any damaged done is reflected back 9 times on whoever dealt it. Basically meaning any attack Lucifer uses he is going to feel the damage of but 9 times worse.
