And do you prefer old coloring methods or new ones?
>>150957505They stopped using cheap newsprint and started using glossy magazine paperAs for the second question it really depends on the colorist but I personally do not like examples like above of redoing old coloring digitally
It's fundamentally wrong to recolour a comic
>>150957582It's honestly insane how often it happens>The Killing Joke>Swamp Thing (admittedly I like the new colors but it's still dubious)>Thor>MiraclemanI do like the color version of America from Judge Dredd though
>>150957582What’s your opinion on something like Killing Joke where Brian Bolland explicitly hated the colors done for his pencils?
>>150957582Not really. The processes for recoloring are hard to do because you have too many people who can't agree what the "original" should look like. Should it be solid colors based on the original color guide, on glossy paper, or benday dots? Should it be on glossy or less bright paper or do you need to have the yellowed look? The only thing that should really matter is that recolors shouldn't worsen the image
>>150957718I love Bolland but the Higgins colors were just better
>>150957505I like colors to pop on the page.For it to be art The color isn't there out of obligation it's there to help sell the scene and the comic. When people forget that an they just vomit random crap on the page that does no service to the story or art they might as well do black and white or servicable color to just help show what's going on instead.
Comic book coloring peaked in the early half of the '90s. There's a certain depth and softness to the colors of Marvel's and DC's books at that time that's really nice to look at.
>>150957625>MiraclemanThe original artists had little to no involvement in how their work was colored for the original editions—Alan Davis had actually never seen his Miracleman work in color until I sent it to him. (He didn't care for what he saw.) Garry Leach's work was colored by, in his words, "underpaid Spanish fabric designers who had no idea how to color comics." Chuck Austen's first story was set a night but was colored as daytime. Those are major gaffes that undermine art and storytelling that was revolutionary. I have no regrets for giving the artists the opportunity to be fully involved and see their work as they'd always intended readers to see it.https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/marvelmasterworksfansite/spotlight-interview-with-cory-sedlmeier-mokf-maste-t28500-s120.html#p864390
>>150957625The Eclipse TPB colorization of Miracleman was good. The colorization in the Eclipse serialization was really bad.
>>150957505Left needs more Ben Day. Right just looks awful.
>>150958164Marvel coloring is still complete and utter dogshit
>>150957718I don't care about supposed original intent, what was released originally is the story. A writer doesn't get away with "fixing" bad dialogue 20 years later
>>150959273You're definitely not an artist.
>>150959292And? Artists are always retards who want to continuously fiddle with their own work. It's pointless, pretentious, retarded and unnecessary.
>>150959340I literally agree 100% with your post, but only if you replace artists with writers. So many comics with good art, or at least where you can say that the artist put effort, and where the story sucks. God, comic book writers are sometimes so pretentious. And trying to alter the original art is bad. You're changing the intention usually the creators had, so the quality will definitely change as well. That's one of the reasons why game remasters and remakes suck, the new Deus Ex one doesn't understands the character designs and overall visuals.Same with some movies getting rereleased and restored. Literally your post makes no sense. If they got it right the first time, it doesn't bothers you that they botch it when it was supposed to be the same thing?
>>150959578I'm not a writer either, I don't favour one over the other, just mentioning the hypocrisy by the audience and perception. What came out is what came out, own your failures and your success and leave it be.
>>150959699Excuse me dear anon, but it turns out that I thought that your first post was another one. I agree with your opinion, i despise recolors
>>150957718>>150959292Bolland in 1987 was not going to use a computer to color it or do alterations like draw Batman without the yellow oval. The idea that it was the "original vision" is bullshit.
>>150959914are you serious?
>>150957993this
>>150957718I think you're fast approaching George Lucas levels of personal revisionism. You make what you get to make.
>>150957505Comics should be black and white.
>>150963173I agree.
>>150957505>Why did comics get so glossy in the late late 90s and 2000s? The big two started being ashamed of how fantastical superhero comics can be and started aiming for realism.
>>150957505Old colors are absolute dogshit, and I don't understand how nostalgiafags can't see it. Half of the 80s stuff is unreadable because of it. Imagine The Question by Denis O'Neil in modern colors—that would be amazing. Walt Simonson Thor—wammo. Publishers need to go back and recolor those old stories with modern coloring techniques, so we can finally see them in a format that actually respects the art behind them.
>>150957505Those recolors are some of the worst and I don't know shy people don't default to them when talking against shit recolors.
I don't think I've ever seen a recolor that's an actual improvement. At best you get "I am willing to tolerate this"
>>150959273>I don't care about supposed original intentRetard alert
Crazy nostalgia for a time when artists were handicapped in every way. Nowadays, they no longer have that handicap, but technology is so advanced compared to what they had before that it has become a new barrier to entry for them.
>>150964879I read the interviews, and it's crazy what compromises they had to make to get this product on the shelves.
>>150957505THESE are the old colours.Newsprint was offwhite, the pigments interacted with the newsprint in such a way that desaturated them.The artists KNEW this. When they picked their pigments, they did so knowing how they would ultimately turn out. This is the intended effect
>>150965291When they later came around to do recolours, they approached it with a flawed technical mindset that if they use the same pigments but on cleaner paper, it will look good, but this is wrong. The colours on the right are WRONG. This is now how the comic is supposed to look
>>150965299But they go further now with their fancy digital tools and they recolour them yet again, and they do it even worse still!Just as the first recolours were done by idiots with no artistic talent, the modern digital recolours are done with absolutely no regard for the stylistic colouring inherent to comics, and instead always try to make things as realistic as possible, to the complete detriment of the lines
>>150965311The Killing Joke and Moebius are the most egregious examples of this artistically blind sort of recolouring
>>150965330Regardless of whether the original author intended it or not, the original colours harmonise perfectly with the tone of the comic, creating a pschyodelic, unhinged feeling.The recolour removes all of this, there is no intensity in the story, it becomes grounded and boring
>>150965337And the example of Moebius of course.The entire appeal of Moebius is the style, of which the colours are a part of it, and there is no style in these recolours, the entire aesthetic is lost.
>>150965343There's an important note to be made about rendering. Pay attention to the hair in >>150965343 notice how in the recolour, the colorist has effectively interjected their own artistic choice about the rendering of the light. This is beyond their brief.It is the inker who determines the style of the rendering, not the colorist.To be more clear, consider pic related. It's not a particularly impressive page by any means, but there is a clear style in the in it. It has been drawn with the intention of being coloured flat. That is why the clouds are drawn the way they, they are almost geometric, they are to be coloured in a flat manner, not realistically. The recolorist on the right does not understand this, he rendered them realistically, but because the lines themselves are not realistic, it looks off.The hashed, almost stippled lines you see all over Moebius' art are a deliberate stylistic choice, they are meant to be seen, not obscured under detailed rendering that makes them look dirty and scratchy.I could go on, the red ocean, the clothes, the hair, Moebius drew with flatness of colour in mind, you cannot recolour this with realistic tones and rendering anymore than you can recolour Spongebob with realistic tones and rendering, it would look ridiculous.
>>150965375And finally, to step away from objectivism and present my own personal opinion....Comics, particularly old comics, were cartoon. They were not realistic. The inker drew his inks with the expectation that it would be coloured in a very limited palette. The entire reason the style of hatching and large areas of black inks exist is because the Inker knew the colorist could not do those shadows, they simply didn't have the colours.Going back in decades later and adding those colours conflicts with the style of the inks. The inks are cartoony, they feature all manner of hatching, etc that pair well with flat colours to create an appealing and cohesive look. They do not pair well with modern more realistic colours and blending.
To publish Akira, it was not enough to perfectly match the colours, the Czech publisher have to prove to the Haps the colours are made the same way. That just for the cover.All this show absolute disregard for comics as an art form in US.
>>150965393Finally consider pic related.It was drawn with the expectation of being rendered in full colour. It does not use bold inks, hatching, etc. Because that would not only be pointless since the colours will be doing that job, but it would also be incongruous with the style.You can't have it both ways, you have to be consistant with your stylistic choices from pencilists, through the inker, to the colorist. If these roles are not working together properly, then like a music band that is out of sync, all you will produce is rubbish.
>>150961034Yes. I don’t see what your issue is.
>>150964879>Walt Simonson Thor—wammo.But Walt Simonson Thor in modern colors is on the right side of the image in >>150957505 and it looks bland compared to the image on the left.
It's probably worth mentioning that this is all likely a systemic issue.The colorist has traditionally not been considered a respectable artistic role within the comics pipeline. It has always been a grunt job given to any schmuck on the side of the road.This was fine when there were only a tiny number of colours available, and often the penciler or inker would write the name of the pigment to be used for them to refer to. It was hard to mess up. But that's not the case anymore, nowadays the colorist has access to millions of colours and all manner of rendering techniques such as blending, glows, etc, they are even able to colour directly over the lines.This is like a monkey with a machine gun, it's too much power and they don't know what to do with it. They don't have the ability to handle it properly.The colorist has now become just as important as the inker (and granted in some cases, the inker has become the colorist to account for this), but still most of the time, the colorist is not an artist at all, or at the very least, a total beginner, and this is no longer a beginners job.
>>150965411great analysis, I think a lot of the stuff you talked about people know innately, but don't really care about. When you turn a medium into a sloppy appetizer, then the consumer settles for less. It's dissatisfying how much mediocrity gets rewarded but in time the great works still endure
>>150965393>PicAt least Jimmy looks happy now
>>150965450I'll be honest, I take for granted how much freedom artists have now. He makes a good point though. Most people are generally against the Star Wars special editions, comics should be held to that same standard. Anything that isn't a scan of the original should not be considered an authentic reprint.
>>150965500I agree, especially for comics, people love to collect these things, it's not entirely about the content, the authenticity of the thing itself is important. A recolour isn't a vintage comic, it's a worthless modern remake. Even if the recolour was good, the simple fact that it's not the original renders it worthless
>>150957582No it isn't, some comics genuinely need it. Ditko's Spider-Man for instance
>>150957582/thread
>>150957749>>150965794Yes it is and shut the fuck up cockmongling faggot or I swear to god, I'm going to track your IP and whoop your sorry candyass
>>150965826My dad works for Nintendo and hes going to ban your account from 4chanNothing personnel
>>150965826Really then I'll go further.The colors need to be redone because everything looks like sweaty garbage. And the dialogue needs to be re-written because Stan Lee was a terrible writer who over explained simple actions dumbed down dramatic moments because he thought kids were stupid and got the actions of panels completely wrong. It all comes across as a bad dub ruining a good anime. Not to mention he hired some of the worst inkers and colorers to ruin Kirby and ditko's art.
>>150965900Trvth Nvking the nostalgia faggots!
>>150965900It doesn't matter how bad it is. Original is original. This is a matter of principle, not pragmatism
>>150965337>the original colours harmonise perfectly with the tone of the comicWrong.
>>150965375>notice how in the recolour, the colorist has effectively interjected their own artistic choice about the rendering of the light. This is beyond their brief.Of all my complaints about recolors, this is the one that pisses me off the most. Replacing flat colors and sharply rendered gradients with arbitrary smooth digital airbrush gradients looks so fucking shit.
pick one and only one
am i doing it right?
>>150967854Looks like the one on the right got some dirt on it
how do you feel about drawing in color? adding information to the original?
left or right?
>>150957505jesus christ modern colorists need gas chambers.
>>150965450This was the case before the late 80's, but it's really not since the 90's. There's still grunt colorists who are considered lower tier, but colorists for bigger artists and books are absolutely considered in demand. It's why certain artists request specific colorists
>>150967880Realism isn't always an improvement, especially in something like comics. Videogames have run into this same problem. In the Swamp Thing example you're showing, the brighter more vivid color scheme conveys they idea of an Earth entity basking in the light of what fuels it, what gives it and all of us life, than the other one with the HDR concept of layered light. Images have to capture a feeling first and be "realistic" in relation to that emotion.
>>150964879>Old colors are absolute dogshit, and I don't understand how nostalgiafags can't see it.>Publishers need to go back and recolor those old stories with modern coloring techniques,the problem is the art wasn't drawn with modern coloring in mind.
>>150967880By far the worst thing a recolor can do
>>150965447Those aren't modern techniques. Imagine someone like Brad Anderson doing the coloring. Whoever did the colors in the OP was trying to keep the 80s aesthetic. Plus, it does have that early-00s glossiness, which makes me wonder when the recolor actually happened. I'd love to see post-2015 coloring techniques used on those old stories, and actually make the 80s stories look like a post-2015 book. The art would pop so much, it would be crazy.
>>150968839>Brad Andersonlol are you trolling? this looks like generic crap.
>>150968860It looks amazing. lmaoGo back take your meds, gramps.
>>150968860Try an artist that isn't Fabok.>>150968885It's alright, not amazing.
>>150968860The funniest thing about this post is Jason Fabok is literally the direct evolution of 80s-90s line drawing, and he's taken it to its peak. Fabok/Anderson is literally how amazing an 80s book would look like with ACTUAL modern coloring techniques and shading. Jason Fabok is easily the best artist in comic books, and Anderson makes his work pop.
>>150968885>>150968934>>150968945lol nah, not buying it.
>>150959292Neither are you. And you can prove me wrong if so.
>>150968945Fabok's art is extremely boring.
>>150968945>Jason Fabok is easily the best artist in comic books
>>150965411Thanks for this analysis anon. I've always been curious about this but I wasn't sure how i should ask it, not just how recoloring works
