Why didn't Marvel pursue animation as aggressively as DC did?
>>151034274Also before anyone says "what about all the Spidey shows and the X-Men shows" I mean apart from those, why didn't they adapt their arcs into movies like DC does.
you would think being bought up by an animation company would lead to them pursuing it more
>>151034274they did, it just wasn't as good
>>151034274Because by then DC told enough stories that they didn't have to give a shit about tying it to comics or whether or not it was overall canon. Marvel meanwhile was struggling to find literally anything that could top Crisis on Infinite Earths and the best they could come up with was Onslaught.
>>151034292>whats 2+2 equal?>and before anyone comes at with this this "4" shit. Im not talling about that
>>151034274Marvel was only bought by Disney in 2009, while DC had been in WB's hands for decades.Turns out having an animation empire financing and coordinating your projects makes it easier and leads to better results than trying to secure deals with whoever happens to show some interest.
>>151034292>X-Men: TAS>Spider-Man: TAS>Iron Man: TAS>Fantastic Four: TAS>The Incredible Hulk: TAS>Silver Surfer: TAS>Avengers: United They StandI mean.. They did?
>>151034274They did they just gave the shows no budget.
>>151034315Fantastic Four was great
>>151034292
>>151034588>>151035806I mean why haven't they done animated adaptations of their greatest non X-Men stories, while Batman gets adaptations of many acclaimed arcs. There should be a Daredevil animated series that adapts Miller basically 1:1 that culminates in a Born Again movie. There should be an animated Kraven's Last Hunt, an animated Welcome Back, Frank, an animated Infinity Gauntlet. So many of these stories are ripe for adaptation
>>151034292You mean the way DC was shitting the OVAs out last decade? Because DC's OVAs didn't really sell. They were spending a couple million dollars on each one and making about cost back. It's the end of physical media and nobody wants to stream Paul Dini's latest two-hour edging session about how hot he thinks BabsxBruce would be. Frankly, nobody normal wanted to read the "classic" DC shit like The Dark Knight Returns, let alone watch a sycophantic fanboy adaptation of this very 80s story 30 years later.
>>151034274Pic related was Marvel's answer to JLU, until Loeb decided to ruin it.
>>151034588I respect your dubs, but can you kindly shut the fuck up when the adults are talking? Thanks~
>>151035956Because Marvel was flat out broke during that time period, which is why not much later they started selling all there rights, remember anon? DC had WB behind it.
>>151034810really depends on which series you're talking about, and none of them ever really reached the highs of any DC cartoon show. But OP was talking about adapting storylines, so I'm thinking he's thinking of movies, not shows. If we were talking about shows, Spectacular and EMH are the only ones that could reach something like JLU or BTAS. I love the 90s spidey and X-men cartoons and have a fond place for the Iron Man show because I had the toys, but they weren't what you could call "as good as DC animations" My answer still stands though. >>151036157EMH was so good, too bad le synergy got in the way
>>151034292>>151034274The real problem is that they didn't try to make them mature enough, I'm not talking about violence. 90s Xmen and Spidey don't count, they still had many issues that were common in action cartoons for kids. Honestly DC's shows weren't perfect, BTAS isn't the 10/10 everyone says it is, but it definitely aged better. Marvel shows matured untill the 2000s, and supposedly the Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon could have been the beginning of a new Marvel animated universeBecause of the success of the MCU, they canceled all the previous projects they had and instead we got synergy. Giving us trash
>>151034292The 90's shows attempted arcs into adaptations way more than most of the DCAU though.>>151034304lol, Disney hasn't considered themselves an animation company since the 50's.
>>151034274They did. Ultimate Avengers, Planet Hulk, Hulk vs.Ultimate Avengers is the only good animated movie Marvel has ever made though, you're free to disagree but please do it inside of your house very quietly as I don't wanna hear shit opinions on animated capeshit movies thank you
I think it's pretty underrated
>>151034274Why bother when most kept getting canceled early? Why waste all that nice animation and art just to sell toys only for it to be cut short?
>>151034274Lol I dunno
>>151034315this>>151034810no
>>151034274When in doubt; blame Perlmutter
>>151036571are you serious?
>>151034274They knew they couldn't catch up to peak.
>>151034607This was true then, and it's true now. That new Disney Spider-Man cartoon tripped at the finish line when it turned out Leonardo Romero's style was being translated in cel-shaded CG for some godforsaken reason https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4452iqhkMs
>>151036571Unironically a great Ironman adaption and proof that his rogues gallery are good if they actually get fucking used at all or in interesting ways. I'd of liked to see this team do a Captain America or Hulk show especially since they have cameos/guest episodes.
>>151040889idk, doesn't look that bad to me
>>151042066The night scenes looked decent and some fight sequences were well choreographed, but it still leaves much to be desired overall.
>>151034274they no has enough moneys :-(
The 90s Marvel animated series have become so iconic in pop culture to the point where every take on the Venom/symbiote arc has adapted that version more than the original one. The X-men theme and TAS line-up is the iconic X-men lineup. The song even got referenced in the MCU for Xavier's theme despite Fox never using it(though in a wider sense, the Fox movies exist because of X-men TAS)The DCAU's biggest influence has maybe been the Arkham games and some of the Snyder movies
>>151034274They did, they just weren't that good at it. In the 80s Marvel was at the top of their game with animation but for most of the 90s they stagnated and got too comfortable with the same level of quality, both in terms of animation and writing.Bruce Timm developed an innovative new style that was easier to replicate with a TV animation budget while still looking very bold and visually striking like a comic book. That plus a slower, more punctuated and cinematic pacing for episodes made Batman stand out from all the noise. If you look at Marvel cartoons from the same time they were still taking the "don't let a single second go by where someone isn't talking" mindset which made the characters feel less believable, and made episodes feel chaotic.
>>151044559Only Spider-Man and X-Men truly dominated pop-culture. Whatever opinión you have of the other shows (Iron Man, Hulk, FF), they didn't leave much of an impact.
>>151036016The budgets were going down since Covid happen and they never made a Tiny Toons X DC DTV movie to promote the Tiny Toons reboot on Cartoon Network.
>>151044370Well Marvel has Disney money now. Their cartoons *should* be able to square up against DC's best, but I suppose it all comes down to proper leadership with a unified vision.
>>151034315This, this, and THIS.All the Marvel cartoons from the 90s were more restricted the BTAS ever was, even if the later got marred by censor mandated "hit flashes".X-Men was fine but a bit more "cheap" in it's animation.Iron Man was just, kinda there.Fantastic Four sucked, and the first season had very infamous animation quality.Nobody cares about Silver Surfer and it came too late.Hulk was just okay.Avengers Assemble was godawful.And Spiderman 94 ended up being the worst due to how badly the show got treated in EVERY ASPECT, but not just the restricted violence and MUH PLASMA, no my friends, what killed that show, was the godawful post-prod adlib dialogue, and the weird YouTube poop style editing, and the stock footage shots here and there, it's like I am watching a very bad anime gagdub from the same era or mid 2000s, nothing has time to breathe or rest, nothing it's subtle, nothing has restrain or impact, shits a mess.And NO, it is NOT meant to be that way because "MUH COMICS OVERNARRATION", stop, who came up with that excuse!?
>>151045987Disney only cares about Marvel as a movie division. Their animation department, and hell even the comics, are paid little to no care. Only in the last two years we're gotten high budgeted Marvel animation again, both with some sort of MCU tie-in.
>>151045987Yeah but they also will have Modern Disney writing, I mean the MCU ruined MARVEL in the mainstream due to its completely farcical tone and the comics have been sucking since the 2000s.
>>151034274Because DC has been owned by Warner since 1972 (1967 if you count Warner's predecessor Kinney National) so they had a vested interest in making Batman work as a serious TV and film property. BTAS didn't pop out of nowhere, it was the long laborious result of literally two decades of pushing the idea of a serious Batman movie until they finally got the Burton movie made, which in turn allowed BTAS to be developed as it was. By comparison, the 90s Marvel shows were the result of Ron Perelman trying to play catch-up, so there wasn't as much budget to work with.
>>151047660That and Marvel was literally near bankrupt so in desperation they sold off multiple rights to many studios who didn't do shit for years but Marvel still got money, also cartoon and vidya licenses because they needed the money, otherwise we would never gotten the Capcom games.
>>151046656>Nobody cares about Silver Surfer and it came too late.That wasn't the problem at all. Silver Surfer got affected because Marvel went into bankruptcy. This not only caused Surfer to get canned after only a season but also the Captain America cartoon that was in production got shut down as well. >>151048058The bankruptcy only affected stuff that happened post-1996. Early 90s Marvel didn't go into bankruptcy yet.
>>151034528thread should have ended right here
>>151035956>>151034588I think I'm just going to start prefixing every one of my posts with "i mean". Just to annoy people.
>>151034274Two years after Batman:TAS Marvel made>FF series>Iron Man series>Spider-Man series>X-Men seriesFollowed up with >Incredible Hulk>Silver Surfer>Another Spider-Man seriesjust two years after that. Then they made X-Men EvolutionWhat the fuck else do you want them to do?
>>151034274Because Marvel was not tied to a major TV Network that needed a mascot series to compete with other networks. Marvel being more independent were syndicating their stuff to other shows to be played on a variety of channels instead. So every Marvel cartoon was just one of many different things those channels had. While Kids WB wanted a flagship show. Same with Cartoon Network, who was also owned by Warner.
>>151034304That happened too. Disney got to work ordering a shitload of Marvel cartoons. Starting out with Hulk, Spider-Man, and Avengers. Then they made tie-in series for later MCU Spider-Man, Avengers, and Guardians of the Galaxy. While making about 2 more Spider-Man cartoons after that.
>>151050979Batman TAS originally aired on Fox.
>>151036016Marvel was also doing that before being bought out by Disney. They crapped out animated movies from 06 until about 2013.
>>151034588>Here's a list of some real half assed attempts that were shit and everyone forgot they existed in about a month!Cool, now hows about answering OP with a question about PURSUING animation AGGRESSIVELY?
>>151034292Yeah, I want something like The Killing Joke animation but by Marvel :)
>>151034292>BTAS episodes are almost entirely made up stories involving massively different characters that were sometimes barely an adaptation of anyone from a comic.>Why didn't Marvel perfectly make 1:1 adaptations of comic stories like BTAS?
>>151051255They fall short of DC on both fronts. Marvel only really tried briefly but then when it seemed like they were trying to gain steam again with Spectacular, it got canned and there wasn't another animated Marvel property that people actually liked until X-Men 97 and that was a continuation. Marvel never put the same stock in animation after the 90s, with a few notable exceptions, meanwhile DC steamrolled ahead.
>>151051025That's because WB didn't have their own network until 1995, three years after BTAS started. They moved over to WB after 1995.
>>151051389Dude, X-Men 97 was ripped to shreds because Mir did 1 episode (Filipino Snipple and Indian DQ Entertainment did most of X-Men 97), also everyone agree that it was "taking away Donald Duck time away from Disney".Also GOD FOR FUCKING BID if they do this shit with Spider-Man': TAS with Spider-Man'98, either get TMS back with the same love and care they're doing for the Rayearth remake (meaning better then what Spider-Man originally got) of this WILL be the result.>Animation is produced by Titmouse and animated by Snipple in The Philippines.>Wellesley Wild is the show's producer and show runner on the Marvel side of the production.>Katie Rice is the show's chief director.>Genevieve Tsai is the show's head character designer, she did most of the show's character designs.>Spider-Man and Doctor Octopus are the only white characters in the whole show, they're are also the only characters from the old show to return for the reboot.>Mary Jane is replaced with a Hispanic/Black mixed race girl who is ugly, she is also 100% bare foot the entire time while only wearing a short sleave night dress with short shorts underneath said night dress but no up skirt shorts because Katie Rice.>No more other white characters like Norman Osborn (Green Goblin), Ned Leeds (Hobgloblin), Kingpin, and Sandman, not even Aunt May is in this.>No Black Cat because her design is "demeaning to woman", and no Gwen Stacy.>Doctor Octopus doesn't do anything bad anymore, Spider-Man just beats him up strictly because he a white cis-gender man.>J. Jonah Jameson is replaced with a ugly Hispanic woman with a large noise and granny glasses, also Peter Parker now works for a blog site instead of a newspaper press.>Trump jokes about had bad Trump is.Because no one wants a repeat of Animaniacs'2020 and no one wants a repeat of Tiny Toons Looniversity.
>>151051389>S-Shutup! MY favorite company beat YOUR favorite company!!!!!So the whole point behind the thread was to play retarded company wars again for no reason?Every one of these shows were an adaptation that very poorly adapted anything in the first place. Majority of the characters were OCs from the animation studio. Almost no comic of any kind was ever adapted at all, they were all new shit from the show writers.
>>151051255So you have no argument to make, Marvel was just not even trying to make any solid adaptations like DC from the very start to today. Got it!
>>151034274They did. Marvel had a whole cinematic universe of shows in the time Batman and Superman had cartoons in that time. Then while X-Men was rebranding with Evolution, DC came out with Batman Beyond and Justice League.
>>151051838Meanwhile BTAS is forever remembered by fans across the globe to this very day. And barely anyone even remembers the Marvel cartoons existed at all.
>>151038917Perlmutter shelved the X-Men way after the fact, not after X-Men TAS and Evolution ended.
>>151051770Shut the fuck up and kill yourself, autistic pedophle.
>>151034274What the fuck are you talking about
Bump
>>151052009You know besides EMH, Spectacular Spider-Man, Spider-Man TAS, X-Men TAS, X-Men Evolution and Planet Hulk.
>>151051770>With the same care and love to the Rayearth remakeHa, you are such a faggot FamiCUNT, TMS didn't show shit for the Rayearth remake for an entire year and they just showed, another stupid story.
>>151051770Thank you.
If I had to give DC's biggest advantage it's that they felt more connected and more focused. Marvel certainly had a few crossovers but it felt more like a guest spot than a universe.
>>151034274DC's advantage at the time was having Batman 1989 and Batman Returns and then having Timm, Dini, Burnett and the rest creating a pretty high quality cartoon and then controlling the direction of the cartoons most of the time (BTAS/Adventures of Batman and Robin to Superman TAS to New Batman Adventures to Batman Beyond to Static Shock to Justice League to JLU). This was a consistent storyline that spanned from 1992 to 2006.Marvel at the time was trying to make deals with as many different people as possible so this came with some problems such as rights for characters being with other people or different productions not gelling togetherLike for instance, Saban handled the X-Men, Silver Surfer, Spider-Man Unlimited, Avengers United They Stand cartoons, season 4-5 of Spider-Man 1994, but weren't involved with the Fantastic Four and Iron Man cartoons. Then in 1996 Marvel went into bankruptcy which disrupted the production of some cartoons (Silver Surfer got canceled and Captain America got shelved as a result)And then in the 00s things got more scattershotX-Men Evolution was at WB but was a Marvel production.Sony had the rights to animated Spider-Man cartoons and put out MTV Spider-Man and later Spectacular Spider-ManF4: World's Greatest Heroes was also a Marvel productionWolverine and the X-Men was a Marvel Studios production but only lasted a seasonThen there was Super Hero Squad which did its own thing but couldn't use Spider-ManThen you have Avengers EMH which felt like it could've been the start of Marvel having their own answer to the DCAU.Then you have the Disney era which was mostly aggressively mediocre and forced synergy at times. I think X-Men 97 and Moon Girl & Devil Dinosaur were the only cartoons from this era where I felt like they were trying.
>>151034274they did but Marvel was buttfucked harder by censors than BTASpic related is the only show of the 90's lineup that comes even close to how somber and dark TAS was, season 1 was absolute kino but parent groups complained it was too dark and sad so season 2 turned into a generic superhero show
>>151036211>Um exqueeze me? Youtube Historians told me all these shows suck so keep it down ok sweetie?You are less than nothing
>>151057924X-Men'97 and Moon Girl & Devil Dinosaur were not trying what so ever, if anything they're this decade's Clutch Cargo, except much worse as those shows don't have live action human lips to make it so bad it's good, instead they're so bad they make 1972's Bye, Bye, Blackboard look like 1944's The Barber of Seville they're that bad.Or in layman's terms, X-Men'97 is so bad it makes See You Later Gladiator look like The Great Piggy Bank Robbery, X-Men'97 is that bad.
>>151034292Kek put me in the screenshot
>>151057979That is because almost all the rest were made for syndication. Shows that are made to be sold to any network that bids on them are under a lot more scrutiny since they have to be made for a much wider list of targets that each have slightly different rules on what they will and will not show. A Syndicated series needs to cover all of them at the same time. Mighty Max might be the only thing that made in the same way that got away with quite a bit more than normal.I do wonder if X-Men came out on time and not 6 months late, would it have done better and looked better compared to Batman.
>>151057924For as much as people like to shit on the FF and Iron Man cartoons, they seemed to have the much more successful toylines in the mid 90s. I don't think the X-Men cartoon even had a tie-in toyline, just the standard toy Biz stuff that also covered all of Marvel. Just the Spider-Man cartoon had a set of their own. But Iron Man and FF cartoon lines were everywhere for a few years.
>>151059556They say that because it's true. those shows were shit and not even good enough to be a historic footnote. >>151061018Kill yourself toyfag.
>>151060970Or better yet, not waste the money and use that money on Animaniacs instead.
>>151051874DC wasn't making adaptations from the starttheir direct 1:1 adaptations of the last decade sold like shit>>151052009yeah that's why they're making X-Men 97 and not BTAS 93 to this daybecause nobody remembers
>>151044707>Gotham Knight (2008)>The Dark Knight Returns, Part 1 (2012)>The Dark Knight Returns, Part 2 (2013)>Animal Instincts (2015)>Monster Mayhem (2015)>Bad: Blood (2016)>The Killing Joke (2016)>Batman and Harley Quinn (2017)>The Long Halloween Part One (2021)>The Long Halloween Part Two (2021)it's not "covid budgets", people just don't buy this shit in any great numbers, and you know they don't stream them at all or WB would have been squirting them out twice a year since 2021>>151051035and they don't sell, nobody wants animated movies about superheroes, kids don't watch toy sale event movies any more, it's not the 80s
>>151036157>>151036404EMH really was the answer to JLU and its a shame it died so early. SpiderMan TAS, X-Men TAS, etc, were all kiddie shows. Many people can't take off the nostalgia glasses to see it.
>>151061604BTAS and the DCAU remained alive until 2017. It didn't need a revival of any kind.
>>151050944>hurrrrrr durrrrrrrrrrr MARBEL made cartoonz too!And before BTAS, DC made the Super Friends. You wanna argue that just because cartoons are MADE they're somehow on the same level as BTAS? Because that's what you just did. Marvel made SLOP. They had animation that looked like they gave their animators shitty dollar-store markers. They hired cheap ass NOBODY actors who did typical over-the-top line readings, while BTAS hired actual actors and movie stars. TRY, just TRY to tell the world that anyone on those Marvel shows gave half as much of a shit as Bruce Timm and Paul Dini did on their work. I, and many others wanted the Marvel TAS's to succeed. They were kiddie-tier garbage that only held up due to the strengths of the source material.
>>151034274Quite literally didn't have the money for it.
>>151059719>X-Men'97 and Moon Girl & Devil Dinosaur were not trying what so ever,Compared to the other Disney-Marvel cartoons before? They do look more like they were trying. Or are you trying to tell me What If or Spider-Man 2017 actually look good in animation or design? You trying to tell me the USM cartoon wasn't terrible?
>>151064382No, they don't; Compare garbage like X-Men'97 and Moon Girl & Devil Dinosaur to actual Disney gold like How to Play Football and Hockey Homicide and the difference Is night and day.
>>151064465Why would I? I'm comparing to just Disney's Marvel shows. Otherwise Big Hero 6 alone is already vastly better than Marvel's output under Disney, to say nothing of everything else.
>>151064517Big Hero 6 sucks ass, and not just compared to a real Disney masterpiece like Donald Duck and The Gorilla.I don't care how many times you fapped to the female characters in Big Hero 6, waifus =/= good product.
>>151052009in truth the ratings for both Spider-man and X-men TAS blew BTAS out of the water, and BTAS is the only DCAU show that's even in the discussion for big ratings except for Batman Beyond(which was number 2 to Pokemon, which is a significant stat)It's more likely that those two shows are better remembered than BTAS, especially since they had a second life once Disney bought Saban out and was reairring all those shows on Toon Disney and putting them on DVD
>>151064656BTAS was written for a general audience, aside from a handful of kiddy episodes made early on, so it's okay to continue to like it as an adult. Spider-Man and X-Men are shows that only kids would like. You get older and you realize the animation sucks and the writing is for children.
>>151064656Thing is Tiny Toons and Animaniacs not only blew both Spider-Man and X-Men TAS out of the water but also Power Rangers, Bobby's World, Married With Children and The Simpsons as well.
>>151061018>I don't think the X-Men cartoon even had a tie-in toyline, just the standard toy Biz stuff that also covered all of Marvel. Just the Spider-Man cartoon had a set of their own. But Iron Man and FF cartoon lines were everywhere for a few years.Both the X-men and Spider-man toylines were meant to be comic toylines first and foremost, the Spider-man line had more A lot of the decisions of the Spider-man cartoon(pushing Hobgoblin, getting Venom out early, using young Vulture) were based on trying to synergize with the contemporary comics. They did have some releases based on the show(Peter Parker, Doc Ock), but it would last after the animated series.The X-men toyline started before the show, but the show using modern designs was another consideration to synergize.
>>151064807not the discussion we are having Famicom
