Wow. What an ending, huh?Just finished S2 of this after not realizing that it had actually come out for like what, a year or two already?Feels like it became a completely different story in the last 2 episodes, like a whole other new things.I guess it was meant to be like their End of Eva type thing.I liked it though, somehow it was still very compelling and cathartic although maybe a little too romanticized.The only thing I'm a little unclear on is if the world we saw in the story from the beginning was the "original" Maddie world (which could technically be a simulation observed by SafeSurf) or if it was one of the worlds the god Maddie was observing in the finale. Because everything lines up except for Caspian seeing future Maddie and Maddie screaming longer before being taken over. Or is it mean to be a recursive loop and the ending we see from episode 1 is what we saw, so basically the show up to now is the journey Maddie went on at the end of the show and that's the simulation we're watching that's gonna end up back there. Which seems to be the implication but would be kinda fucked up, I know she said she misses pain and not knowing but doing the ALL over again with seeing her dad die and Caspian die and going on 100 thousand years of building the dyson sphere like man... that's rough if she really was fine to redo all that to end up there again.
>>151072260Yeah you're late but I'm glad you saw it. I was a bit late too.So what you might not know is that there were originally going to be 2 seasons, and it seems like the early parts of season 2 were going to be stretched out longer (the rebellion and living under the tech blackout) and then season 3 was going to be entirely this stuff, but they crammed it together, so that's why it was rushed.but yeah this show was kickass.and I think as to your question, it's unclear. Mainly due to how completely versatile the crazy alien things are. Can they time travel, to insert tips to get to them? it seems plausible. But it's also possible that we're several simulations deep by now, which.... Okay, that's fundamentally impossible for a bunch of reasons (it shouldn't be possible to a run a simulation inside a simulation at all, let alone trillions of them, no matter how much energy you have IN THE SIMULATION), but this is a show that, for ages, had huge servers in the arctic for free cooling, then launched one into space to stay cool. They understand 'tech' but not science. You kinda have to take the whole thing at face value like a fairy tale, because obviously it's not possible to 'start over and simulate all of life up to this point' because that's insane, you don't have a recording of the past, only your memories. You don't have even a sliver of the data you'd need for such a simulation. At no point did you invent a reality scanner, let alone one that can see into the past, all it knows how to do is copy brains. Which is both awesome and kinda stupid, at various parts of the show. Because the computer can simulate a brain but not equal one. Until it can.
>>151072376>because obviously it's not possible to 'start over and simulate all of life up to this point' because that's insane, you don't have a recording of the past, only your memories. You don't have even a sliver of the data you'd need for such a simulation. That's not really true, we already know that information can't be destroyed.Even black holes don't destroy information.So if we advanced far enough to build a dyson sphere around the sun then it's entirely plausible Maddie could run some scan and have all the information needed to run a full complete simulation of the world up to that point.Of course the timing doesn't add up since she'd have to scan the entire universe and we know she didn't know about save surf at the galactic center so it still doesn't work in the show but the point is that it is definitely a possibility.
>>151072422whatinformation is quite possibly the easiest thing to be destroyed, and nothing survives a black hole, not even reality. What are you on aboutMaddie can scan the present, but that's it. she will have only vague information about the past. also good point, safesurf either VISITS all the simulations, or were genuinely simulated meaning somehow it simulated the entire universe including that part, which is includicrous.the main issue, as some have pointed out, is that if the entire show really is a simulation (either the first one, or it's irrelevant which one), and the message from safesurf is what got Maddie to do all this, then what motivated the REAL one? so naw, I think they're just godlike time travel beings and they were able to incept real life.
>>151072433Bruh.https://www.sci.news/physics/science-stephen-hawking-black-holes-information-03172.htmlEven black holes can't destroy information, they store it as Hawking radiation.It's literally the one thing that cannot be destroyed.
>>151072448you just now destroyed information by moving your fingers. there was a pattern of what the dust on the keys was, and you moved it. information destroyed. you'll never have it back. I don't care what some morons like hawking think. I don't blame the guy for having the attitudes he did, butanyway maybe this is what happened. This is more plausible I think
>>151072448>>151072454>No, according to the laws of physics, information can be transformed and hidden but not destroyed. While it may seem like burning a book or a car accident destroys the information, it is still present in the form of the resulting particles and energy, just in a completely scattered and practically impossible-to-reconstruct state. This principle is linked to the fundamental laws of quantum mechanics, which state that information is conserved, a concept supported by the second law of thermodynamics
>>151072454I mean yeah that makes sense, that's pretty much what Maddie says at the end.That's she's not really a god compared to SafeSurf who have created her.I'm wondering about the beginning and we saw up to that episode though, was the before the safesurf simulation or is it after.Like is that the inciting incident that led to the creation of the simulation.I guess it doesn't really matter though.
>>151072462Anon, the article doesn't even say thatit says the MATTER is not being destroyed, and it's claiming that the former form of that matter is being stored in a unique 2-dimensional form of 'information'I mean that's six kinds of retarded, but it's not as retarded as what you were suggesting, which was that the ... CONCEPT of information entered the black hole and remained unscathed.quantum mechanics is nonsense, get with it.
>>151072476i dont like thinking about the real reality being the shittiest one, where Maddie never does all this and just... fades? I mean there's no way perpetual digital existence would ever work, for a bunch of reasons. Entropy is a real bitch, no matter how much energy you pump into it. Hell, most of the time that only speeds it up.
>>151072477Those are separate articles.Either way though, I can understand arguing about quantum mechanics but you're arguing about the literal fundamentals of physics and the second law of thermodynamics, it's a VERY basic and fundamental concept that information cannot be destroyed.
>>151072488>>151072477alsohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-hiding_theorem?useskin=vector
You guys are getting lost in the sauce
>>151072476Maddie only created the simulations in the first place because Caspian communicated with Safe Surf and told her how far in the future it would be before she saw Dave alive againShe created the simulations so that she could recreate the show timeline exactly, it was identical to the one she remembers, just so she could ask Caspian at the end how he knewPresumably there was an original timeline before the Simulations where some version of event happened and Caspian and MIST sent Safe Surf off to space so that it could evolveBut it's hard to say what happened to the original Maddie. Did she upload? She wouldn't have a reason to start her own simulations if she didn't get that message from Caspian
>>151072533Yeah that's what I'm asking, was the show we saw up to episode 8 of season 2 the original timeline or already a simulation.Because how would SafeSurf communicate with Caspian if it was the original timeline... and if it's NOT the original timeline then isn't the implication that there was no original timeline and this universe with people is all just a simulation by safesurf (who got there from their original timeline... but then wait)waiti'm lostno that doesn't add up
>>151072376It's not impossible to run a simulation within a simulation. If you have ever used an emulator or virtual machine to operate another program within it then you have essentially done that already albeit on a much smaller scale.
I liked the first half of this show more than the second half
>>151072915hmm i think i'm the oppositethough i wouldn't call it "half"the first season and 6 episode of second season i liked but wasn't crazy about, but the last 2 episodes of season 2 really turned it up to 11 for methat whole thing was so mindbending
>>151072260Severely underrated show
>>151072260cool to see people still discovering this show.The ending was rushed because they knew they weren't getting any seasons past the 2nd one
>>151074072>The ending was rushed because they knew they weren't getting any seasons past the 2nd oneIt felt like but I think that was in their favor.Eva had the same thing happen but being forced to wrap up so fast everything felt like it was escalating super fast and getting bigger than life it really felt like a cathartic finale.I think it was for the best, if it was drawn out for a whole season it would definitely lose the punch.
>>151072260Ayyy, welcome to the club. The ending as rollercoaster of existential dread, man. Felt like they had to wrap a full seasons in 2 episodes. But i think it came out pretty well. And i find it very funny chanda proven right by Maddie herself, UIs will really become gods. But i think the main point was that despite everything, being a God would be a lonely existence, as seen by maddie herself. Not that the show says you can't chose to ascend to the galactic council, but that's not something maddie (and i suppose the creators) would want. I guess what makes life good are the simple things. As for the ending, yeah, i think there are at least 3 layers. The one we saw, the goddess maddie and the safe surf gods one. But again, it doesn't matter. If it feels real to you, then it might as well be, and even if it's fake, it doesn't mean it has no value. Yeah, i like this show a lot. And i think it's one of the crowning jewels of western animation. Shame not many have actually seen it.
>>151074735the one i think i didn't get about the ending is what happened to everyone else?like did maddie just fuck off on her own into space to build the dyson sphere and the rest of UIs stayed on earth?or was she like the only one who survived?or what happened there?she never explained how she survived the safesurf robots killing everyone, or how she uploaded or what happened to everyone else
>>151074753>she never explained how she survived the safesurf robots killing everyone, or how she uploaded or what happened to everyone elseEh, i thought it was implied that Caspian pacified Safesurf when they talked. As for maddie, she lost the one reason keeping her alive, so it really didn't matter, she is a rich ceo so i don't think it's too farfetches to think she had her own uploading tech or something. The only thing keeping her going forward was the clue Safesurf/Caspian left her. Everyone else didn't really matter for her, in the context of those scenes, at least. But i guess we can suppose they are off doing their own stuff. I assume it also drives what i said about a god being a lonely existence. If everyone is like maddie, then there's not really a reason to go out and interact with the other UIs, if you can keep running your own personal paradise. Again, existential dread. I think it's for the better the show didn't answer this.
Too bad every major character killed themselves making mindless computer simulation replacements.
>>151075010digital lives are just as valuable as embodied lives, ancient one
Hey I just finished this too. Honestly I was a little worried with how much they sacrificed to justify the 20 years into the future but that final episode more than made up for it. I have a lot to think about in regards to this series but it was great.
