She's a Mary Sue
>>151074157All capes are
>>151074157And boring.
>>151074157I heard the suit smells
>>151074157but so is Batman
She's min/maxed, not a Mary Sue. Batman's the guy who's legitimately good at everything, she's retarded and works things out through her retard strength and persistence. Barbara Gordon's the one who fights crime protected by plot armor.
>>151074199Wrong
>>151074157Dont care, new series is great. Even the retarded halfnig brother they saddled her with is endearing in a funny sort of way. Really hope Shiva comes back soon though, love that milf
>>151074157She can’t read and can barely talk. She’s more autistic. She’s just a savant when it comes to martial arts.But struggles to function in normal every day life. Shes not a Mary Sue.Plus I cook to her.
>>151074284Her being retarded hasn't hindered her at all since the first couple arcs of her original run.
>>151074157It comes from good genes. She’s from good breeding stock.
>>151074157Just like Batman.
>>151074363Well those are the only Cassgirl books worth reading.
The first half of her series dissappointed me because I always thought Batman was gonna be the one to teach her to read, communicate and be a normal person, because Batman is a good guy and she's already supposed to be the ultimate martial artist. But it turns out, early 00s Batman was a hardass emotionally distant daddy issues shithead, so he didn't teach her shit. It was mostly Oracle and Steph, when it happened, if at all.
>>151074560He cared about her a lot, but she didn't need to read to be an effective crime fighter so he didn't see the point in teaching her.
>>151074580This is exactly what I'm talking about, I want my Batman to be a little more human and kind than the bare minimum. Definitely not an obsessed "my daddy didn't love me" pastiche. I still liked it fine, but her interactions with Batman were kind of dissappointing to me, I've seen Batman be a jerk to Robins a billion times.
>>151074596Post-Crisis Batman was socially retarded and rude. Miller established it, O'Neil ran with it, Schreck ran it into the ground so much that Tomasi and Morrison had to make a hard pivot away from it.
>>151074618No kidding. I've moslty read Knihgtfall and some Breyfogle era tales and he didn't seem that bad to me though? But when I read these No Man's Land+ volumes, I get the feeling he's written to be a rather pigheaded asshole. Maybe people thought pic related was corny and creepy and they way, way overcorrected. Got two of his DC FInest volumes from around crisis era, so I guess I'll get to see this change myself once I read them.
Mary Sue’s aren’t jealous of their friend’s tits.
>>151074550Wow, Babs is the bad guy here and Cass is perfectly content being retarded, who would have guessed?
>>151074560Her runs just want to reinforce that she's the best martial artist and that's it. Spice it up a little and have her first some metas, not just other martial artists. You'd think she'd have more of a complex about her being more dumb compared to the rest of the Batfamily, have her try to overcompensate and try to solve a mystery or something.
>>151074732>have her try to overcompensate and try to solve a mystery or something.This kind of happened but not as often as I'd liked, and that's why I'm so frustrated with it. Like Issue 2, where she couldn't save that black dude because she didn't know how to tell anyone where he was. Or this one, where she helped Dick, Tim and Alfred recreate that crime scene Bruce was involved with. I wish there was more of this, and of her becoming friends with Steph,but you're right, there's a few too many vapid action chapters in what I read, and most of her development I recall was her dealing with her fucked up parents.
>>151074656Alan Grant says that around NML the junior editors were largely running things and they had a very specific idea of what Batman should be and his and Moench's take wasn't it (they did want to keep Dixon around, so he got to stick around on the Batfam titles) and history shows their Batman was an even bigger jerk.
>>151074560>>151074580The truth is that the book pushes the idea that Cass simply changed her father's dogma for going all in on Batman's and that isn't a healthy thing either. Unfortunately her biggest fans lack any ability to reflect on that and make twee, cutesy ideas of Cass as Batman's perfect daughter who he loves so much.
>>151074290Search in your heart you know it's true.
>>151074732>Her runs just want to reinforce that she's the best martial artist and that's it.They do that because the idea doesn't seem to stick to larger DC and needs to be constantly re-reinforced. The only non-Batgirl DC writer who seemed to actually accept the idea that Cass is the top of DC martial world was Joe Kelly. That's why I like his version of Cass in JL Elite so much. He utilized her like I wish every writer did, took her abilities for granted and applied them to a superhero story the way you apply any superpower.I agree that Batgirl writers tread the same ground way too much. Instead of trying to convince us that Cassandra is the best ever at fighting, it would be better to just act like we're already convinced and write the stories with that as the starting point, an established fact that you treat as fact.
>>151074299Oh, there is not a chance in hell she's actually dead.>>151074872Her first series constantly reinforced that idea with Babs, though. Like, she was constantly pushing for Cass to go out and balance her vigilantism with having a normal life, and Batman and Cass just kind of brushed it off. Feels like it got dropped eventually, though. Which is unfortunate.
>>151074872From a never-ending story perspective, "I don't need a civilian identity, I'll just be Batgirl all the time forever" is a good thing.
>>151074157Nah, we've all seen how comics present their actual Mary Sues, I'm shocked they don't devolve Cass into one, she's still safe.
>Her first series constantly reinforced that idea with Babs, though. Like, she was constantly pushing for Cass to go out and balance her vigilantism with having a normal life,and most fans take from that is either>Babs was being SUCH a bitch!or>Babs is actually a good mom and totally Cass' mother figurewithout really getting any nuance of it. Babs is trying but is out of her depth trying to mentor her and gets frustrated like anyone would. Cass is a lot to handle.
Her and shiva story was cool.Also, them and Bronze are kino because it made batwanker seethe.Bruce is at his best when he isn't the best at everything but top 5-10 at everything
>>151075752The cASS was fat.
>>151074854Scott Peterson, the same guy behind Alan Grant’s firing, carried out the editorial’s demand of a new Batgirl. You would think they would use Stephanie given she’s right there and readers were endeared with her, but nah. He decided that it would be a new character, and she would be Asian.
>>151074698Those titles and that ass we’re made to be clapped by Jade Tiger.
>>151074157Tim and Steph had to work for their spot on Bruce’s team.Cass literally got hers after only knowing Bruce for a few days, despite being mentally ill and illiterate. Also she just happened to be raised by master martial artists and was trained as the ultimate weapon despite being a 5’5 Asian girl. So yes, she is a Mary Sue.
>>151074915Shut up
>>151078397Firing Alan Grant is the second worst thing a man named Scott Peterson has done
>>151078677Tim got it after a bit of instience, paul valley didnt, steph and helena got it the worse cass had babs helping her
