Remember when Darkseid was specifically a New Gods villain and Orion's fated enemy instead of some meta ultimate end of the DC universe final boss? That was better. Even the whole "Darkseid Is" thing is out of context and blown way out of scale.
>>151101507Kirbys art was fucking peak. That soldier dying on the ground with lizard skin and a future musket looks fucking awesome
>>151101507I don't consider any Fourth World material by other writers to be canon so its irrelevant to me.
>>151101507Remember when Kirby made the Eternals to not be in the Marvel Universe? Only for Marvel to not listen and integrated them anyway? And now, everyone stole the Celestials plot?
>>151103668'member Lord of Light?
>>151101507No! Darkseid is 20 feet tall and fated to fight superbatman at the end of time!
>>151101507I wanna go back
>>151101507DC runs every semi popular character into the ground Batman has to have stories fixating on his no kill rule every five minutes.There are actually three jokers and they take turns fucking with Batman. Harley is a wholesome lesbian and she's a good guy now because gay people can't ever be evil. Dr. Manhattan met Superman and Supes restored his faith in humanity because kindness is punk rock. I'm so sick of this shit.
>>151101507Sometimes a character concept exceeds the coral they were meant for King Shark is too cool a general concept to have to be stuck to Superboy. Because why waot to introduce the clone Superboy to get to a villain who's base concept is broad enough to work for anything?Darkseid is in a similar position. Kirby gave DC a big powerful villain who's the embodiment of evil, expecting that pedigree not to get more use than the other characters, even his own son.
>>151103668>everyone stole the Celestials plot?what you talking about, Willis?The celestial plot as in space gods coming back to judge humanity is the von Däniken's Chariots of the Gods influence on Kirby. That being said, I always felt the Galactus trilogy was a early version of the plot line Kirby used for the Celestials since he was always referencing space gods in all his stuff. Look at the 2001 comics he did for Marvel.
>>151101507I never understood why the New Gods had to be some all-encompassing cornerstones of reality in the form of goofy guys in costumes. Why can't they just be a couple planets of goofy guys in costumes?
>>151105052Celestials do a much better job of being the strange and mysterious, all powerful being from space that may as well be gods thing than ant 4th world character.
>>151105148That's not the role the New Gods fill either.
>>151105052>>151105148The Kree Sentry was another one that hinted to a race of space gods tied with the development of modern human civilization. We never really got to see what Kirby toughly intended to do with the Kree. Ronan never says he's a Kree in his first appearance only that he works for the Kree and the Supreme Intelligence. Stan and Gene Colan were the first to have portrayed the Kree as humanoid looking. Who knows what Kirby wanted to do with the Kree.
>>151105012King Shark is less of a character, and more of a general idea.
>>151105110Morrison, he turned them into old gods to prop up Superman and Batman as newer gods.
>>151105373I think that was an excellent endgame for the New Gods. They've been stuck in limbo since Final Crisis. And every event has been a copy of it. Mostly Snyder's fault for copying Morrison in general.
>>151101507How cool was that?
>>151101507It evidently wasn't better if Darkseid is more memorable as DC big bad than Orion's nemesis
>>151101507Darkseid being a larger villain is fine, popular characters being regulated to event only is the issue. You can't just have Batman fight the Joker anymore it has to be a huge city ending multi book crossover.
>>151105346And so is Darkseid really at this point
>>151101507Yes, and that was limiting and not using the character to their full potential
>>151101507>it is 2031>Geoff Johns returns to DC Comics to write "the comic book I'd always talked about writing, but back then you couldn't do it, people weren't ready">Darkseid: 1>a 14 issue limited series of self-contained single-issue stories exploring the 14 Darkseids who came before Darkseid 15>"the thing was I read those old Kirby comics you know right back to the 1970s and it just seemed so obvious that this Darkseid 15 wasn't the first, that he was never intended by Jack Kirby to be the first Darkseid, and now we're delving into that rich history and fleshing it out">Jack Kirby did not return a request for comment>a Rich Johnston exclusive
>>151101507What do you guys think about Simonson's Orion?
>>151106835Good comic but not the most ideal interpretation of Kirby's Fourth World.
Even during the Great Darkness Saga they knew they should have it go back to Orion
>>151107622Right.
>>151101507So then what went wrong? Would DC have been better off if they had someone like Tim Shooter?
>>151109178Jim, sir. And all comics would be better with someone like him.
>>151101507How is Darkseid?
