Ultimate Marvel was cool.
barely
>>151329095Not really. It was trying way too hard.
>>151329095i only ever read ultimate spider-man and it was good when peter was alive.
bendis was better than hickman and /co/ just wont admit it
>>151329095it was at first. whats your point ?
>>151332496>bendis was better than hickmanThey both suck
>>151332496different branches of the same shit tree
>>151333539>>151333518no fun allowed
I'm reading Ultimate X-men right now and I love it. Sadly they were affected the most by Ultimatum so post-2008 is a bit fucked
>>151329095There just weren't enough characters acting like complete assholes all the time.
>>151333629bendis>words words wordshickman>words charts words charts
>>151333651sell me on UXM
>>151333731What if everyone in an X-Men comic was a bigger asshole, influencing later comics in the mainline where everyone in an X-Men comic were bigger assholes
>>151333679hickman's USM is surprisingly absent of charts
>>151329095Yeah it was. Most hate comes from either younger readers who can’t handle when the good guys aren’t perfect paragons of virtue or older readers who think comics peaked with Shooter-era Marvel
>>151333854>Boomers and Zoomers think the 00s Ultimate Universe sucksNature is healing
>>151333787how asshole-y?>influencing later comics in the mainline where everyone in an X-Men comic were bigger assholessurely this was temporary
At the time I thought it was trying way too hard to be 00s and now it's aged like milk, vindicated.>>151332496I'll gladly say Bendis/Bagley was better than Hickman/Checchetto. But USM after Bagley left was worse.
>>151333916It's a Mark Millar book, so they're all jerks and it's full of edge. Xavier is clearly up to no good, Wolverine is a scumbag double agent for Magneto who defects to Xavier's side after fucking Jean but then he still tries to leave Cyclops for dead to have Jean for himself.
>>151334016lol damnseriously I don't mind edge because you can write shit like this but it's contained over there, like an outlet>Wolverine is a double agent for Magnetowell that's original, willingly? no brain washing?
>>151333854>readers who think comics peaked with Shooter-era MarvelDo other readers even exist? Outside of Twitter retards.
>>151334255>well that's original, willingly? no brain washing?Yes
Despite being a new line the editorial was shit:>Numerous retcons.>Numerous continuity errors.>Numerous times writers stepped on each other's toes.Then you move into some of the other shit:>The humour.>The edgy shit.>The references that aged badly.But the thing that really did it in for me was "everything is the super soldier serum," Universe felt really small because of it:>Mutant connection.>Spider-Man villains (Green Goblin, Venom etc).>Hulk.>Peter's dad, Reed's dad, all worked on projects to replicate it. I also don't even think it is that good a jumping on point because ultimately it is just a remix of stuff.All that criticism aside it does sometimes have a solid blockbuster trashy comics feel that can make for some solid reading despite its many flaws.
>>151333854>younger readers who can’t handle when the good guys aren’t perfect paragonsIf anything it is older readers who complain when their heckin' superheroes aren't the whiter than white good guys.
>>151334364and its all useless since mainline 616 became edgy, and nihilistic about heroes existing in the "modern day" Ultimatum is seen as the killing blow but ultimate was fucked when Civil War happened
>>151333954>I'll gladly say Bendis/Bagley was better than Hickman/Checchetto. But USM after Bagley left was worse.i can agree
>>151333731Well for one thing they have cooler suits. But mostly I think it's cool how they remix classic X-Men stories and characters. You see Ultimate was written in a time before subversions and deconstructions were totally oversaturated so it's still interesting. For example Wanda and Pietro have a totally different trajectory in 1610 vs 616
I think ultimate is good for trying to actually make the mutant shit affect everyone and not just exist in a bubble but besides that ehhhhh
>>151333787He said sell him on it. Were you so starved for attention that you forgot how to read?
>>151334480That's selling him on it
>>151334421I would say the end started with Avengers Disassembled
>>151334521That was a good story though
>>151334383You really haven't been paying attention to much lately
>>151334521Avengers Disassembled is basically the catalyst that gave us the "modern" marvel universe comic wise for the last 20 years and it led to civil war too
>>151334421Yep, its really telling when they add in Miles or Nick Fury Jr. into 616 later. Once they realized they can slowly morph 616 to be a pseudo ultimate then Ultimate itself was seen as useless whats the point of two edgy modern day comic lines
>>151334535It's a dogshit story that only "works" if you've never read an Avengers comic before and yet not even good even by Bendis standards.
>>151334603You can shit on Ultimate all you want but its extremely telling they initial ideas of Ultimate are loved with how much the MCU has ultimate in its blood and they just picked what they like in ultimate and still run with it in 616
>>1513344212007-2008 seems like a real grim year for comics >Civil War>Ultimatum >One More Day
>>151334546Elaborate, the last few conversations I have had on /co/ from people complaining about superheroes not being good guys have been from older readers. Especially since superhero teams now, like the X-Men etc, constantly engage in big events, battles, death.
>>151334636The MCU doesn't have that much Ultimate blood, aside from one or two things (like Hulk connected to super soldier serum).
>>151334421>Civil WarEvents ruined comics.
>>151334705
>>151334653Jeph Loeb was basically inflicting his grief over his son onto everything he possibly could.
>>151334582Yeah after Jemas was fired the new publisher made a conscious decision to make the 616 more interesting again and leave the Ultimate books by the wayside https://sktchd.com/longform/avengers-disassembled-oral-history/>Ultimate Marvel was a major point of emphasis for Jemas and Quesada, creating a situation where the “classic Marvel universe” material wasn’t “well-supported” in the moment, according to Brevoort. That was the way things were. But shortly before this story truly begins, there was a change in leadership. Jemas was out and Dan Buckley was in as the new publisher of Marvel. This was big for two reasons, one of which was Brevoort’s own health. He had an “incredibly contentious” relationship with Jemas.>Brevoort: He and I did not see eye to eye and did not get along. My job was not fun at all, to the point I would be thinking to myself on a daily basis, “Is today going to be the day that I’m just going to blow a gasket and keel over, or is today going to be the day that I hurl him down an elevator shaft?”>One of these two things is going to happen eventually.>The other reason it was important was it created an opportunity for the original line of Marvel comics to retake its place in the hierarchy, if only because of where Buckley’s interest lied.>Bendis: The Ultimate line took off in a way that was beyond what anyone was hoping for.>Brevoort: The Ultimate Universe was the new hotness for a couple of years.>Bendis: It just felt like (Ultimate) Spider-Man and Ultimates were landing hard, and they were like, “Oh, well, let’s not do that to the detriment of the ‘main line’ of comics.”>Brevoort: Bill cared about and was focused on (the Ultimate universe), and Dan was more invested in the classic Marvel universe. So once Dan came in, the emphasis naturally shifted back to, “What can we do to push the core books?”
>>151334680>Black Nick Fury >Super Soldier Program being connected to almost everything >Everyone's dad worked for SHIELD/military in the 40s >The focus on super heroes being government agents >Focus on super heroes in DA REAL WORLD
>>151334636Modern fan hatred for Ultimate is so weird because the ideas themselves were very popular up until Ultimatum, and you can tell because Ultimates was the template for The Avengers and they've done multiple Ultimate Spider-Man adaptations. Feels like there was a huge gaslighting campaign at some point.
>>151334705>>151334727Nick Fury buys a dog would do numbers
>>151334440>Well for one thing they have cooler suits.they did look cool>But mostly I think it's cool how they remix classic X-Men stories and charactersit's a tradition at this point, always like when they do that no matter the Earth>>151334757and the Chitauris, did they also move them to 616 too?
>>151334705Panel 16 is so fucking funny becasue you always do get >the X Men go somewhere to fuck off >Avengers are dead or are remade>A former villain now is in a place of authority randomly
>>151334727>Did I mention Wolverine has 3 books KEK
>>151334582The 2000s era was the period of "anger sells" as described by Tom Brevoort, Marvel Executive Editor at the time 2007 - 11. I think post 1990s crash people did want different comics and people like Bendis did feel different, coming from an indie scene and more writer focused as compared to the artist led intitiative of the speculator bubble period. And stuff like Daredevil was well received at the time. I think they liked controversy because they felt it got people talking about things, like how the image describes. I just don't think they ever thought burn out would take place. But everyone has their "this has gone a step too far" moment.The 2010s is definitely the burn out period. The replacement heroes (FemThor, Sam Wilson Cap, Amadeus Cho Hulk) combined with new diverse heroes (Miles, although he was 2009 he counts, Ms Marvel, Hawkeye, Young Avengers) really annoyed some people. And the rumour goes that this was actually MCU synergy concerns, aka Kevin Feige wanting younger heroes or replacement heroes so they could replace people or hire younger actors on contract in the MCU. In 2017 there was a situation, right after Secret Empire (Hydra Cap) when the comic shop owners rebelled. At a meeting they told the Marvel representatives to their face that the comics were shit and not selling. David Gabriel, VP of Publishing at the time, said that they might be right and diversity doesn't sell. Whilst at almost the same time the EiC was elsewhere saying diversity was successful. A day later David Gabriel backtracked his comments.I think fans assume that this is done out of maliciousness or spite but I think it is weirder than that, a weird cycle of perceptions and ideas spread across the internet and how these creators respond to different things, which is a longer musing than a post allows.
>>151334757A lot of this feels like window dressing and not blood. I mean mainstream comics now too also have the issue of "secret origins, everyone is connected to everyone". But they kinda had that problem prior to Ultimate line and after it.I mean even stuff like DA REAL WORLD you could say comes from Stan bullshit of "world outside your window".
>>151332496If we're comparing their Ultimate Spider-Man books? Yeah, no contest.
I like Marvel characters and I do enjoy older comics/adaptations for marvel shit but man I dont think I actually have enjoyed a marvel comic since 2010?
>>151334656>Elaborate, the last few conversations I have had on /co/That's just it, you're talking about /co/ where the audience is older so you think it's only older people saying that. I'm looking around other social media
>>151335039I'm biased because I've only been reading stories from before 2010. I just want to know all the highlights before I jump into something more modern.
>>151335094So different people on different social media might think differently. But in my experience, whether it is /co/ or indeed elsewhere, a lot of older people have more specific ideas that their heroes should be the good guy, not kill etc.Look at Captain America, people like Mark Waid think Captain American shouldn't kill. You may not know this but in the 00s, Brubaker Cap/Bucky killed people or put terrorists in the hospital, Brubaker justified this. But people did complain at the time. Younger people grew up with the MCU, heavily based on Brubaker Cap, so younger people tend to be fine with Cap or others killing people.Whilst older people, like Mark Waid and others, think Cap is archetypical good guy who doesn't kill. So I am sorry but in my general opinion, older people tend to complain more that their heroes aren't the whiter than white good guys.
>>151335284Marvel's heroes were always heavily flawed, but being killers is a step too far unless they were originally conceived that way.
>>151335673Captain America and Bucky fought in WW2, I don't think being killers is that bad or a stretch.
>>151335734Frank Castle was a soldier too, but Steve finds the way that he executes criminals repulsive.
>>151335284For me, at least, there's a bit more to it.The good guys don't have to be perfect, but they do have to pay for their flaws. Peter lets a robber get away, the guy kills his uncle. Jean kills a billion people, she dies to redeem herself. The Ultimates invade and disarm another country, America gets invaded right back. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth if they just do shit and get away with it.Modern comics don't seem to get that. They'll have a hero mindrape or kill somebody, and that's it. It's crumpled up like a used tissue and forgotten about. Sometimes, it's even celebrated.
>>151336040>Modern comics don't seem to get that. They'll have a hero mindrape or kill somebody, and that's it. It's crumpled up like a used tissue and forgotten about. Sometimes, it's even celebrated.I mean the modern consequence issue is just editorial, the fact that every new creative team has to do something new and big to be noticed and it is hard to follow that.And to play devils advocate and defend them.. you can't read and follow everything anyone does, it isn't that easy to just build upon that stuff. Even in the past, new creative teams did ignore things to do their own thing and side characters/plots got left to the wayside The reason why it is so noticeable now is the multiplication effect, it isn't small stakes, it is bigger and bigger changes and shit that it becomes impossible to rectify.
>>151333854I like Ultimate Spider-Man until I read the stories it was adapting and how shit of a job it did
>>151336543It told original stories, it didn't really adapt anything. And its version of the clone saga was a lot cleaner than the 90s version.
>>151336625I'd still rather read the 90s Clone Saga. I'll take the significantly higher highs with the lower lows
>>151332496Bendis just rehashed older stories and made Peter into the bitch we see in the comics today
>>151336653>Bend just rehashed older storiesIf that's your reasoning, then every time Spider-Man fights someone he's fought before, it's a rehash regardless of the circumstances.>made Peter into the bitch we see in the comics todayUltimate Peter has nothing in common with post-BND Peter. He was a high school kid and a smart-mouthed asshole, an 00s update of 60s Peter.
Does anyone dislike how Ultimate Spider-Man kind of cemented the "Spider-Man must be a High Schooler" thing? Like OG Spider-Man left High School near the end of Ditko era. Then he was in college for ages before graduating. He has always been a young adult. But I don't think he ever graduated in Ultimate? (I mean yes he died, but before that I don't think he did.) Adaptations, 90s cartoon he was in college, Raimi he left after the first act of the first movie, Amazing he left at the start of the second movie. But then we get to MCU Spider-Man taking three movies to leave High School. I feel like the executives think Spider-Man should be a High Schooler and have pushed this perception of Spider-Man, when really he has always been a young adult. And Miles and that stuff just feel like a continuation of them desperately wanting a High Schooler Spider-Man.
>>151336703He was a rookie for ten years, died like a bitch with less than a year of actually being spidey and let himself get replaced. Bendises pete stopped growing as a character within the first 6 issues and it just spun its wheels for the rest of the time. Every original story arc was bad and the only arc he somewhat improved was the clone saga by virtue of not dragging it out for two years and even THERE he dropped every interesting story element started within 5 issues
>>151336497I'm not saying every mistake a character's made over the decade has to come back and bite him. But shit like pic related, that's what gets me. Iceman cripples a helpless guy, gives a little speech about how he'll be in pain for the rest of his life, Bishop swears under his breath, the end. It's not heroic, it's downright monstrous. Far from the worst thing the X-Men did in the Krakoa era, but a perfect example.I don't begrudge modern comics for never following up on this. I don't need somebody to take this thing from half a decade ago and make a one-armed supervillain out of it. What bothers me is that the writer had a hero act like this and just treat it as okay.
>>151336995Krakoa era is in general everything I am talking about. That multiplication effect of threats to a ridiculous degee, warping everything to that level. The problem is, much like this says: >>151334913The audience responded to that shit. And the lesson they learnt was, for the longest time, that this shit worked. Krakoa sold well, they did anthology TPBs. Heck, now they are selling anthology omnibuses so you can read every Krakoa title in order.
>>151335901“I know you use your children to make pornography. I know any to make this as easy on them as I can. Invite me in.”
>>151336995Stuff like this is always written like a bad ass action movie blockbuster one liner. The writer isn't thinking consequences or exploration of that moment. They are thinking, that is an Arnie line to end on.
>>151336792>He was a rookie for ten yearsLike everyone else? No one in the universe was meant to age.>died like a bitch with less than a year of actually being spideyHe died saving his aunt in a battle with his rogues gallery.>Bendises pete stopped growing as a character within the first 6 issues and it just spun its wheels for the rest of the time.Well, yeah it's Peter Parker. He is who he is. Plenty of personal drama though which is what Spider-Man's all about.>Every original story arc was bad All the Kingpin stories were great, as well as the impostor Spider-Man, Hammerhead, and dating Kitty Pryde.
>>151336995Iceman and the X-Men in general crossed the line where they could no longer be considered heroes anymore years before Krakoa, that was just putting a period at the end of a sentence.
>>151337298This shit is par the course for superheroes. Pretty much every team has done something bad or created an issue for decades at this point.
>>151334705>Events ruined comicsIt fucking did. And it needs to end. Reading X Academy really showed me the light
>>151337521Events have been the status quo for 35 years now. We’ll be lucky if they end within your lifetime.
>>151329095Post Ultimatum Jean in her disguise was the hottest character in Marvel
>>151337550I know right.
>>151337563pic ?
>>151337227But nobody was angry. I had to sift through storytimes to find that page, because googling "Iceman gives a guy frostbite" didn't give me shit. Nobody cared at all.It's not an editoral thing. It's that, for a good long time now, writers will have heroes do sick things for no reason. Nobody's pointing a gun to anyone's head and making them do this, they just do, and see nothing wrong with it.I'm not a stickler for no kill rules or anything. There are situations where these things are unavoidable. But casually doing vile things and there being no narrative weight to it, that's something else entirely.
>>151337664That’s because people thought the entire appeal of the genre was self-insert power fantasy instead of powerful man do admirable thing, so now we get edgy lectures on [insert issue here] whenever civilians show up instead of Spider-man thwipping Electro to save a bank’s clientele.
>>151337664>no one was angry>about KrakoaPeople complained all the time about it and still do! There has been several Krakoa threads even recently, just the past week or so.>there being no narrative weight to it, that's something else entirely.I mean that is almost entirely my whole problem, there is no weight to everything. The meta aspect is, we all know it'll be reset so who cares right? But I wish there was weight to things and an exploration of that. Continuity should never be so tight it is a straight jacket preventing new stories from being told but neither should it be so loose that nothing ever matters. That image described how people "needed things to matter" and the cheap trick comic writers used was the BIG EARTH SHATTERING EVENT but now none of these things matter again and really people want more personable moments with their characters, in story, in adventures. Some people hate how comics have to be realistic, by realistic I don't mean, actually realistic, I mean, they like to dabble at face value in a bunch of things like values/morals, despite not really having anything to say. I would just like someone to actually take the time to explore some things again.
>>151337521>X AcademyX Academy?
>>151337954Anon you misread the post lol. He was specifically talking about people being angry about all this vile extremist shit, not Krakoa as a whole. People bitched about Krakoa, rightfully so, but stuff like Iceman mutilating a guy or using Cerebro to spy on peoples’ internet searches went unbothered.
>>151337989>Anon you misread the post lolI didn't.> He was specifically talking about people being angry about all this vile extremist shit, not Krakoa as a whole.People bitched about Krakoa AS WELL as the extremist vile shit too. Heck we just had a thread about Polaris where anons were bitching about her unleashing the Brood against Orchis.>but stuff like Iceman mutilating a guy or using Cerebro to spy on peoples’ internet searches went unbothered.Anon, where were you? People bitched about every single moment as it was coming out. Seriously.
bump
>>151337981My bad Academy X. Either way House of M tie in/ Decimation was a big tonal whiplash. Thank GOD The X-Men stated out of Civil War
it was epic
Remember the Ultimate Iron Man mini series comic that was so bad they retconned it as being a fake in universe drama?
>>151339545no
>>151339558>Mark Millar's Ultimate Avengers vs. New Ultimates retconned the series so it was actually the origin for an anime cartoon in the Ultimate Universe due to the miniseries' poor reception.
>>1513349132020s feels like Marvel wants to go back to the 2000s way of anger sells but quickly realizing it's not working as well as it used to
>>151340979Anger sells never really went away as it is baked in the DNA of how creators deal with people now. I think it is easy to say, "They hate you!" But it is more nuanced in how they work with social media bubbles and what feedback they are getting. I mean, to expand on it further, to some extent you can never please everyone and fans will always complain. So you have to understand that and accept it. Go to any forum and people will complain. But they can only really know what they are doing "right" via some acceptable feedback as well as sales. And the issue is.. the same gimmicks still tend to work for a time. Overtime though this approach DOES feel like they hate you because it can seem very spiteful. But often it is because they aren't really thinking about their comics with any forethought to how it comes across. The problem is the systems of feedback and conversation have completely broken down in many ways.
>>151340979What is Marvel even doing right now that's particularly trying to make fans mad? From my perspective, Daredevil, Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, Avengers, Fantastic Four, Hulk and so on might as well not exist. Spider-Man's still in an All Time Lowe just like he was a decade ago. Brevoort is doing a 90s nostalgia event filtered through 10s nostalgia with X-Men and doing a messy job of it.
>>151341258You kind of answered your own question.
>>151341124The problem is that while it's true that you can never please anyone, fans will always complain, etc, there's a feeling that they're not even meeting the bare minimum of requirementsThe way Anger Sells would be like how people complained about Bendis Avengers but they ended up high on the charts year after year. I don't get that impression with anything in current Marvel.
>>151329095I will defnd parts, but was it?
>>151334761>Modern fan hatred for Ultimate is so weird because the ideas themselves were very popular up until Ultimatum, and you can tell because Ultimates was the template for The Avengers and they've done multiple Ultimate Spider-Man adaptations. Feels like there was a huge gaslighting campaign at some point.Yeah, even Civil War wasn't hated THAT much back in the day. There was a lot of great threads about these comics at the time and the ramifications afterward. A lot of the hate came retroactively, because people got super fucking tired of those types of events, with the superheroes fighting amongst themselves. So they blamed Civil War and declared it literally worse than Hitler.It's like how Dan Slot used to be highly praised here on /co/, because his She Hulk was pretty amazing. Super funny and well written. Now it's retroactively shit on because people hated his Spiderman comics and now he's pigHitler, and all his previous work is Mein Kampf
>>151342173>his She Hulk was pretty amazing.Dude, That stuff straight-up reads like incel revenge fiction.
>>151342173I legit rather hangout with Hitler than Dan Slott.
>>151332496/co/ is not one person.
>>151342286i don't see it, unless there was like one specific instance, which probably ignores the fact that it was also mocked within the comic itself?
>>151343252Are you serious?Every time Jen's sexuality is brought-up it's shown in a disparaging light.
>>151334440Wanda and pietro fucked in ultimate :(What a change in trajectory
>>151334653Oh my fucking GodWhat a miserable nihilistic fucking eraCan't believe I grew up thinking this is what comics were (im 27,
>>151336995These people were literally trying to kill them.
>>151334761>and you can tell because Ultimates was the template for The AvengersOn a superficial level, yes. They used the Bryan Hitch design for Captain America, they used Ultimate Nick Fury and SHIELD is involved. The team line-up is sort-of similar (just no Giant-Man and Wasp and no Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch till the second film) and they deal with a Chitauri invasion. I guess Hawkeye having a wife and kids is another.Beyond that they're not like the Ultimates. Hulk doesn't eat people, Thor is already known to be a god to the audience, Tony doesn't have the brain tumor or the Hitch-armor (unless you count them giving an armor similar colors in Spider-Man Homecoming), Black Widow isn't a traitor who gets Hawkeye's wife and kids killed. Captain America seems more closer to 616 in personality than Millar's Ultimate version.
>>151342173>Yeah, even Civil War wasn't hated THAT much back in the day. There was a lot of great threads about these comics at the time and the ramifications afterward.Are you fucking gaslighting here? It got really hated when the conclusion and Frontline ending happened. Looking back I'm half convinced whatever remaining positivity toward Civil War post-ending was astroturfed because they kept repeating the same talking points like pushing "Cap Was Right" or faking a debate.>It's like how Dan Slot used to be highly praised here on /co/, because his She Hulk was pretty amazing. Super funny and well written.Have you read it recently? It really doesn't hold up that well.
>>151343302You forgot to include that Wolverine watched them fuck, previously fucked their mom, and fathered a kid with her.
All I have to say in response to the "Ultimate X-Men are assholes" talking point is that these guys spend their lives one step away from being sent to concentration camps. The very first issue opens up with Sentinels melting random mutants in the street and post-Ultimatum they are routinely killed on sight. I can forgive them for being a bit short with people.
>>151343259oh, i see how you are.>>151343396i used to re-read every couple of years and eventually one of my nieces took it for herself. I should rebuy it.And i never really understand "doesn't hold up well", because this should only apply to dumbshit kids. I was in my 20s when i read it and there's really nothing that can change anyone's perspective by that point... unless they're ignorant as fuck like a child or teen usually are.
>>151343445>oh, i see how you are.Not wanting characters slut-shamed for no reason?
>Oh boy I do like exposing myself to this slop.Do you "people" really?
>>151343396Also, i understand the ending for Civil War getting a lot of hate, but it still wasn't Hitler hated, because there was still a lot of positivity all the way until Siege or whatever later storylines that made people get fed up.There's a difference between "THAT SUCKED" and "I'm never reading Marvel ever again because civil war creates Hitlers"Discussion on /co/ back then was enjoyable, mainly because the comics at the time weren't actually that awful, and then it slowly degenerated in "this was complete shit and its worse than Hitler." Super fucking exaggeration, even if i agreed that it was shit, like modern /co/.
>>151343517The fuck are rambling about people love Hitler?
>comics at the time weren't actually that awfulIt was unmitigated sleaze. 9/11 fried Marvel's brains.
>>151343533People act like it's the worst thing ever, hence "hitler"Exaggeration to show how exaggerated their stance is.>>151343506>>151343552that's some nice commentary without any actual criticism you got there.Yeah, you hate jokes at the expense of women. Wah wah wah.
>>151343581Stop being an incel for starters.
>>151343581Why did Dan Slott make Jen a rapist?
>>151329095It's the exact same shit in a different wrapping>Hickman's Ultimate Spider-ManShitty pacingUtterly shitty villainsNo satisfying resolution to anything>Bendis' Ultimate Spider-ManShitty pacingUtterly shitty villainsNo satisfying resolution to anything
>>151343629how old were you in 2004?
>>151343658Why does that matter?
>>151343631I liked Benom...
>>151343581I feel like Slott failed at the satire he was looking to get across in this series, & I also feel like he did She-Hulk a disservice as a character. I do agree that he tried to tackle sex & She-Hulk’s sexuality from a mature standpoint not usually seen in superhero comics, but all he really did was call She-Hulk slut without saying so over & over again.
>>151343688I want to understand your perspective or if you're just trolling.
>>151343725I was 12 but I didn't read the run until I was 28.And no I am not trolling.
>>151342173>his She Hulk was pretty amazing. Super funny and well writtenBetter joke than anything in that shitty comic
>>151343746Get out of here Unc
>>151343761Uncs are the one who think Civil War and Dan Slott's She-Hulk are good comics
Why did Gen-Xers kill comics?
>>151343361And then he immobilized them. There is a world of difference between "hurting somebody to defend yourself" and "torturing somebody you are completely safe from".Mooks have been trying and failing to kill heroes since antiquity. Notice how they tend to defeat them and maybe squeeze some information out of them, instead of pulling off their limbs like a kid who caught a bug.
>>151343703>I feel like Slott failed at the satire he was looking to get across in this series, & I also feel like he did She-Hulk a disservice as a character. I do agree that he tried to tackle sex & She-Hulk’s sexuality from a mature standpoint not usually seen in superhero comics>from a mature standpointIt's a comedic comic book. There was little effort to make it "mature" because it was tongue in cheek. Even the Juggernaut part was done with a comedic effort, which was taken way too seriously on by some people. She Hulk's defenses come out of the left field, for the biggest comedic take on it, and you think they're trying to be mature about it? There's some serious moments, but they're literally just moments for some characterization/insight.It's like you guys never read the comic and repeat the bullshit that late 2010s /co/ came up with just to hate on Dan Slott for his Spiderman comics.>>151343761What's an unc?>>151343746I think you're too brainwashed to understand pre-00s comedy. I can't argue with you, because it'd be like me arguing with a muslim or baptist.
>>151343948>It's a comedic comic book.It's not funny in the slightest.>you're too brainwashedWow you're a cunt.
>>151344009Really starting to think it's Slott or someone at Marvel, trying to defend Marvel like they used to back in the 00s
Holy shit this is awful!
>>151344019It must be Slott.The dude cyberstalks people. Has several dummy accounts on CBR.
>>151344019Why would a current Marvel employee be defending a 20 year old comic book that hasn't been in print for ages, while calling their current stuff bad?Looks like i was right when i said that you guys are just haters who exaggerate everything because of your hate boner.It's people like you that make /co/'s comic side so trashy now.
>>151344143Sure thing, Slott.
>>151343948>It's like you guys never read the comic and repeat the bullshit that late 2010s /co/ came up with just to hate on Dan Slott for his Spiderman comics.Hi Dan.
The 00's was just SA every other issue.
>>151343076yes he is
>>151344765>sometimes you gotta take the pussy like Pepe
>>151329095you must be 18 to post on this site
>>151344765>Muh rape drug.Why not make a story about it, and how this affect Starfox's love life. Instead of whinning about it?Post 2000 writers are cancers.
>>151345943im 34
>>151343443Those Sentinel designs crashes so bad with the idea that Ultimate Spider-Man is supposed to take place in the same world.
