Is there a reason why old Bruce became so cynical and apathetic towards his villains? He wasn't like that in BTAS
>>151347310yes becasue he got old
>>151347310How would he have reacted differently if this happened in the original?This fool tried to expose his identity and paid for his hubris. You think he would've cried or something in the original?
What is he supposed to do? Whip out some kind of antigrav prison cell from his pocket?
>>151347310He understood that Tommy the Hitman and Frank Castle were right
>>151347310>He wasn't like that in BTASBecause Beyond and TNBA pretty much rewrote him to always be in the Batman mindset and only barely show any humanity as Bruce.
>>151347310Cranky old bitterness
>>151347310Oh that’s easy, look at what happened to his old villians. Joker broke his Robin and was murdered in front of him, he believed Harley was killed by Batgirl, Mr. Freeze became a literal talking head owned by his company, Bane pretty much became a vegetable. I think the only Villian Bruce managed to save was the ventriloquist and that was when he was young and the joker was still alive. Oh and in this timeline Bruce also believes he shot Black Manta to death in the Justice leauge Unlimited cartoon. Than in the future he had to resort to a hun again the last time he wore now Terry’s costume, Bruce being jaded honestly makes a lot of sense.
In BTAS you are very often seeing his first encounter with a villain.Then in later episodes he has his second or third and he's far less sympathetic but not holding a grudge.In TNBA he's seeing many of these villains return for over the fifth time even after feigning reforming. By Beyond he's seen that a lot of these people are never gonna get better. The point of the no-kill rule is in part to allow reform. By beyond he's tested his limits.
>>151347310
>>151347310Not to mention that Terry killed/didn't save like dozens of his enemies and Bruce didn't do or say anything about that
>>151348111If there was a situation where Terry could've safely taken them in instead of risking his own life to save them he wouldn't have an issue, but most of these are "Hoisted by their own Petard" deaths which Batman traditionally is ok with. Ifyou die trying to escape or die in combat where it was a life or death thing, it's not an execution. If Terry was holding people down and killing them, then he'd take an issue.
>>151348224Wait, there was a Hyena-man in this show? Is he one of Harley's hyenas?
>>151347310I remember an anon saying that Timmverse Batman isnt as sympathetic or "dont let them die" as comic Bruce because the timeline actually progresses and the status quo changes. So Bruce in BTAS will slowly lose sympathy or be less careful with Villains due to them not changint. Sure he won't outright kill them, but if they're truly a despicable lost cause and get themselves killed fighting him, well he's not going to shed tears most of the time.
>>151348271Woof from the Jokerz gang Joker takes on in the Beyond movie. No direct connection with Harley's but meant to homage them(like how Ghoul is a scarecrow homage)
>>151348271Splicer that was part of the Joker gang, it was nod to Harley's hyena's
>>151347891In other words, life humbled him and showed he was wrong.
>>151348337>wrong.No, it showed that one man can't launch a crusade against crime in one of the worst places on earth.
>>151348271Splicers, man. That's Woof. He's part of The Joker's gang that includes Bonk, Ghoul, Chucko, and the Deedees.
>>151348319>>151348325Oh, thanks. But Woof, seriously? Who the fuck would call himself Woof?
>>151348393pretty sure that's the joke, he's so feral he only laughs and woofs. He isn't able to speak normally to even call himself anything else. And the Jokerz are dumb so don't bother coming up with anything more complex than that.
>>151347310The scene with both Bruces interrogating Ghoul really puts it in perspective.https://youtu.be/PETk8eBbfN0?si=vir6y9PLie6iJiQ7&t=174
>>151348224Not a single memorable one except for the jailbait
>>151348316>isnt as sympathetic or "dont let them die" as comic Bruce that anon doesn't read many comics. Plenty of moments where Bruce just gets fed up with people or shrugs off a villain killing themselves in crossfire.
>>151348484What the fuck old Bruce did to him anyway? Shove his cane into Ghoul's ass?
>>151348233Why is this moment never sighted as Batman breaking his rule? Sure he didn't mean to do it but his action directly does kill Ubu there.
>>151348553He said>If you don't tell me where he is, i'll lit a cuban cigar and shove it hot up your asshole.
>>151348514You can't be serious anon. Inque, Curare, Shriek, Ten, Ra's, Blight were all pretty memorable as well
>>151348632Because the vast majority of people don't really read monthly comics from the past. Most people seem to start around Post-crisis, and even then that's becoming a limited amount of people and most just seem to stick to events before a certain point. I went through some time just reading Batman comics from the 40's-80's so I could find examples of things that either people think have never happened or examples of him being ok with villains dying. There's some more examples, but I really should organize them in a folder.
>>151348648I really wish there was more Blight. His secret could've been kept better for longer and he could still do evil stuff as both forms throughout the series. BTAS had Daggett and STAS had Lex Luthor. Beyond had some real dud episodes with random villains when it could've been a Blight episode.
>>151348111>didn't save
>>151348233That's why i never understood why people criticised Nolan so much for this moment in Batman Begins. Like did they even read the comics to say that Batman would never act like this?
>>151348875Holy timing
>>151348880Probably mad when Bruce shat his pants over JPV letting someone die
>>151348880That's fine. The issues with Nolan's Batman come down to a lot more inexcusable things. Like being a ninja but using no martial arts when he actually fights in the movies. He almost completely stops using his gadgets regularly in situations where they'd be perfect. Two-Face holding Gordon at gunpoint? If only Batman had some sort of throwing star to disable his hand instead of tackling him like a retard over a ledge. Or doing something even more retarded like shooting at a truck carrying a nuclear bomb.
>>151348316At that point Joker seemingly died several times. Bruce probably knew he survived and wasn't willing to give a fuck. Might as well make a joke while he's at it.
>>151347310Decades and decades of trying to make the world a better place and all he can see is the failures. Dedicating too much of his time to Batman over Bruce allowing vermin like Powers to thrive. Giving up on humanity because he's decided he'd rather have his anger than his loved ones.Terry saved his life in more than one way. But Terry doesn't have nearly his degree of sympathy for his villains as Batman did. Then again, most of Terry's rogues who meet bad ends were awful through and through.
>>151347523There's actually deliberate progression going on where Batman gets worse as the fight drags on. And when all the good people in his life or dead or have stopped putting up with him, he just gets into a worsening self destructive spiral. He doesn't even have Alfred around.
>>151348875>>151348880Now explain to me why they fuck he saved Joker from that falling in Dark Knight while having no problems with killing Ra's, Talia and Bane?
>>151348233Terry does tend to use more vicious tactics on his opponents and he deliberately murders the Joker, but as we've established, Batman is a lot more hardened with age and struggle and Joker was undead anyway.
>>151349012because nolan wanted to save him for a cameo in 3 like scarecrow
>>151348918I think he'd be glad if Joker died. He's a horrible person and an unrepentant mass murderer. He was that bad even before he was Joker, as a mob buttonman.
>>151348816I think they just didn't want him to lose his menace.
>>151349031Crane in 3 was supposed to be Joker but Ledger died.
>>151349012How strong you have to be to yoink mf like that? He's not Absolute or even Affleck Batman for fuck's sake
>>151349012It'd be kind of weird when two ferries of people spare the other and Batman kills Joker when he could've saved him. And Batman didn't kill those other three. You could make an argument for Ra's but Bane was blown away by Catwoman while Bruce was about to get killed.
>>151349012He didn't want Joker to "win." It was that petty.
>>151348938I wonder how his relationship with Diana deteriorated? Alongside the retirement of numerous JL memebers.
>>151349078What about Talia though? She died directly because of Batman's actions (yes, he was completely justified considering that he tried to stop her from blowing up the Gotham but still)
>>151348974I choose to believe that the death of The Joker and Tim's breaking was the very last event chronologically for Bruce, before the DCAU changes to Batman Beyond.
>>151349160That was one of those "they died from that?" deaths.
>>151347826And they mentioned quite a bit about how Arkham was just a revolving door, it made sense that he became jaded when he got older and the bad guys just kept coming.https://youtu.be/8w6pnWnqzWE?t=62
>>151349179I tend to think that that was the inflection point where everything started to go wrong, yes. I don't imagine Batman bounced back from that psychologically. Not completely.
>>151348093What about Chronos? Thanks to Green Lantern and Batman he was forever trapped in a time loop with his wife undermining him over and over again
>>151349012He secretly thought he was a pretty fun guy
>>151348525>>151348316Yeah he lets lots of people die, the tumes i can think of:>TDKR (a lot)>Batman Nu 52 (Scarecrow arc where he lets a guy turn to mulch on a train)>Batman uses people as human shields a lot of the time>Batman will sometimes let people fall to their deaths>Batman the Cult (implied brainwashed off panel kills, and he lets Deacon Blackfyre get torn apart by his own men) >etc.>etc.This is not even counting animals, we have examples of Batman just fucking killing them with shards of glass lol
>>151348916>Like being a ninja but using no martial arts when he actually fights in the moviesI think that's mainly because Nolan couldn't make a decent fight scene to save his life so he just didn't bother to include martial arts at all other than boxing.
>>151349012Because he was saveable. Saving R'as would've involved risking his own life, Joker just took a rope.
>>151349457Exactly the problem. He put no effort in the actual fight choreography. Just shaking the camera around so you think it's more impressive than it is. I'll never understand people praising those movies.
>>151347310This show is highly satanic because it has CLONING aka doing God's WORK
>>151349441Don't forget about Arkham Batman that almost certainly killed dozens of people throughout Arkham series despite games insisting that they're just unconscious
>>151349610They're resting.
>>151349074what was crane supposed to do then?
>>151349179Well he does at least go on to wear the armored suit he used in the Beyond prologue that he couldn't use long due to heart strain.
>>151349610He purposefully let Joker die in Arkham City and then mocked him with "Despite everything you did I would still save you" afterwards, Arkham Knight basically confirmed that through his inner Joker personification.Also you can destroy the last Lazarus dose instead of giving it to dying Ra's in his side quest so there's that as well
>>151349681Probably nothing. It's not like they bothered even giving him an actual Scarecrow costume in Dark Knight. He was just a replacement cameo in Rises. You can debatably count his appearance in Gotham Knight as the only real time he's had a real role in an actual costume but the canonicity on that is really debatable.>>151349784>He purposefully let Joker die in Arkham CityHello Harley.
>>151349610Whenever he blows up the tanks next to the milita troops i cant help but cringe thinking that "they're just resting" no Bats they are fucking dead a shrapnel shard tore them apart
>>151349805>Probably nothing.damni honestly liked the masked look with the straight jacket more just a shame he never reused it nor wore a hat with it
>>151348514Take a seat, anon.
>>151347310He never died the hero, so he ended up living long enough to see himself become the villain.
>>151349882It was for all of 5 seconds. Nolan lacks vision.
>>151349936yeah you can see it with the odyssey costumes as well
>>151348233I haven't watched Beyond in a while, weren't a lot of Terry's guys like street gangs or corpo shit? He didn't have like a gangster Twoface really anything like a drug lord or "criminal", they were like a lab accident of some sort or or corporate level stuff due to the future setting.
>>151349805>Hello Harley.Tulpa doesn't lie anon
>>151347310The new batman adventures had this bruce.
>>151350137It's the Joker part of Batman's mind guilt tripping him. Of course Batman blames himself for Joker dying. Don't overthink it.
>>151347310He got so sick of Gotham's petty crime he became a masked vigilante, and all it did was cause the emergence of supervillains (League of Owls nonwithstanding). Then he pulled off hat trick after hat trick saving the day from them, but Gotham just got worse.I'd be deeply cynical by my grey years too.
>>151349664pining for the fjords
>>151347826>I think the only Villian Bruce managed to save was the ventriloquistDidn't Two Face got rehabilitated or i confuse him with Man-Bat
>>151347310It's hard to stay sympathetic towards your villains when they constantly blame you for their shitty lives despite you doing everything you can to help them
>>151349572>I'll never understand people praising those movies.I mean Begins and Dark Knight are still fairly entertaining even with dogshit fights (mainly because of actors, music and cool quotes) while Rises is completely retarded
>>151351091Begins has a modicum amount of effort but can't commit to the bit enough. Dark Knight is dogshit that thinks it's high art because it spouts first year philosophy quotes. And casual audiences ate that shit up.
>>151351091at least with rises you can make the case that nolan genuinely had no interest in directing that film after ledger died and only did it to get inception produced
>>151348465He actually is able to speak normally according to Return of the Joker's screenplay, he just leans into the hyena gimmick.>>151348816I think 1 or 2 more Blight episodes would've been cool.>>151348938With the Kidnapping and Torture of Tim Drake by the Joker and Harley being his biggest failure. >>151349150He probably saw them as having emotionally compromised him and made him vulnerable.>>151349307That event broke the Bat for good, after the Near Apocalypse of 09, he likely left the Justice League and operated solo until 2019 when he had his heart attack.
>>151349160This is one of the funniest death scenes I’ve seen
>>151350528Damn just like real life
>>151349559That's the answer.>>151349996Yes they were mainly coroprate and street gangs.>>151350444You're confusing him with Man Bat.
>>151349012Because junkies dont live that long anyways
>>151350378>PIIINING FOR THE FYOOOORDS?
>>151349441I know he let a woman that shot acid to her victims die, but I can't find the comic.
>>151350444Two-Face ends up developing a 3rd persona Judge and after a scene where he is madly babbling to himself, is never seen again.
>>151347318This
>>151347310Because he kept fighting the good fight for twenty to thirty years after that until he had a heart attack and then watched all of his work get undone and then slide just as far in the bad end direction over the next twenty-ish years.
>>151350528This is why this episode was so much fun. A city prosecutor starts out extremely skeptical of Batman and convinced that the "he creates his own villains" line is true. Then the villains kidnap her and take her to Arkham and put Batman on trial, forcing her to play attorney, and she gradually realizes that no, all these people are just bad people and they would have become villains anyway whether Batman was around or not.
>>151348696It's true.Any recs on a good place to read or download old Batman comics from that time. I was doing readcomicsonline but I noticed some of their older ones are scans and while I like reading scans for the color accuracy some of theirs were a little damaged
>>151349681Probably ride through the town on a horse dousing people with fear gas sort of like in the first one iirc
Even at his absolute worst (i.e., the shit like where he saves the Joker from being executed for a crime he didn't commit), Bruce generally doesn't get too hung up over villains self-destructing. Usually, he'll try to save them, but if there's nothing he can do, then he just accepts them. Like at his absolute worst, his impulse to save even the most vile villain only extends as far as his actual physical ability to do so. If he genuinely can't save someone, if he works everything out in his head and realizes that he cannot save someone with the resources at his disposal, he'll accept it. If it's an innocent or otherwise redeemable person, he'll be upset over it, but if a criminal kills himself because of retardation, it's usually just a whatever thing for him.
>>151349996The guys selling the Bane patches were kind of drug lords, the guy with the golem and In que were kind of accidents (as well as Freeze's Swan Song) and definitely tree corpse guy, and the hunter guy and the Cobra cult were kind of different but overall yeah.I guess you could count the hypnotist guy as a sort of Poison Ivy professional going rogue type. Sound guy was sort of like Lock Up
I'm in agreement with everybody who says Blight was killed off way too soon. His death was even ambiguous, a classic "where's the body" comic book death. He could have come back, and should have.
If my gf and ton of friends died because my satellite crashed down I would be pissed too.
It does make sense how cynical Bruce has become by Batman Beyond. Bruce spent so much of his life and efforts to making Gotham better, and while Gotham might be somewhat improved by Terry's time, it's still kind of a shithole. Batman the Animated Series actually placed a ton of emphasis on Bruce's efforts to improving the city. He funded free clinics, built halfway houses, and nearly all of his daytime scenes were dedicated to his efforts fixing the city's problems, creating new jobs, fixing the homelessness epidemic. He bought out shittier companies that exacerbated the city's issues and refocused them towards more humanitarian means. And by Batman Beyond, it's clear that his efforts didn't bear as much fruit as he'd have hoped.Meanwhile, as Batman, he was constantly expressing sympathy towards his enemies, trying to understand them and help them, only for them to rebuff him and arguably even get worse over time. By the New Batman Adventures, Bruce was noticeably more jaded, which was a large part in his falling out with Dick. Though he did improve some by the time Dick resurfaced as Nightwing, it's clear that Bruce had changed drastically since he first started his career. And it's hard to blame him, because his rogues gallery have somehow actually gotten fucking WORSE. Legitimately, they're all even worse monsters and jackasses than they were in the previous show, with a select few exceptions such as the Ventriloquist. Freeze, arguably one of Batman's most sympathetic enemies, became damn near an irredeemable monster.
>>151355915And then there's Batman Beyond. Even though most of Terry's enemies aren't as talented as Bruce's, they also don't have to be. The crazy rise in technology over the decades has resulted even petty criminals becoming much more dangerous than they ever were in Bruce's time. Blight, for all his powers, probably isn't quite as dangerous as some of Bruce's villains, and he sure as hell isn't Justice League material like Joker was. But he's basically Doctor Phosphorus, so despite not being quite as skilled a criminal as the likes of the Joker, he's still insanely dangerous. Like that's the thing. You don't have to be as talented in this new world. Bruce's enemies were often geniuses, extraordinary monsters and genuine freaks. But in Terry's time, anyone can become just as dangerous with half the talent. This also results in Terry's enemies being way more self-destructive than Bruce's. They're dangerous, but also kinda stupid, so they keep blowing themselves up. Terry himself isn't as skilled as Bruce was, so he couldn't save most of these guys even if he wanted to. It's all he can do to just survive, and that often means that he has to help their self-destruction along.
>>151347310That's because Beyond is a timeline where Gotham get worse as time goes on and Bruce ruins his own life and relationships instead of his relationships with Dick, Baba, Tim, the League, etc, helps make him less jaded and cynical and thus can help improve Gotham.It's the same in The Dark Knight Returns.Basically, a Bruce who has a shit life and next to no friends = a doomed Gotham
>>151355937I mean it probably didn't help that Superman got taken over by an alien starfish. DCAU is a really shit timeline overall.
>>151355937I'd argue that one of the worse decisions was him getting with Barbara. That fucked things up pretty badly. Although in fairness, I think Mystery of the Batwoman did sort of establish that Bruce did try to avoid the relationship for a while, and it was mainly Barbara who was aggressive about it. Still, he did end up reciprocating, but like, I dunno, I'm not sure I can blame him. In this timeline, he didn't have anything resembling a meaningful relationship with Selena. The existence of Andrea Beaumont and the failure of their relationship probably really hurt Bruce's ability to form relationships with women down the line. Things clearly didn't work out with Diana either. Nearly all of Bruce's relationships either go nowhere or end in tragedy, and for a time, it probably seemed like things could genuinely work with Barbara. I'd chalk it up to a moment of weakness, where despite his sheer stoicism, Bruce does have some desire to be happy buried deep inside, and when a real opportunity to be happy with someone seems to exist, he can't help but be attracted.In the DCAU, I think Barbara was Bruce's last real chance at a meaningful relationship, and that was it.
>>151356031It's amazing how Bruce/Selina just straight-up isn't there in the DCAU. I'd argue the universe fumbles Catwoman entirely, right from the beginning. Timm, Dini, Burnett, McDuffie, they all seemed to have no idea what to do with her.It's to the point that The Batman, despite being an inferior show in so many ways, actually handles Catwoman better.
>>151356050Well at the time, the idea that Bruce's relationship with Selena could legitimately go anywhere was a weak prospect. She was the one who was closest to him, sure, but the prospect of Bruce and Selena becoming happy together was more of a Silver Age/Earth 2 thing, and generally seem to have died after Crisis on Infinite Earths. I think it was only starting from The New 52 when their relationship starting meaningfully improving, but during the point when BTAS was a thing, it probably wasn't considered a serious possibility.Even now, when DC has clearly given up on the idea of a "future" for DC's heroes, the genuine prospect that Bruce and Selena could actually, definitively settle down isn't taken seriously. And after the last debacle with King, I don't think they're gonna try anymore for a while.
Overall, I've sort of gotten cold on the idea that Selena and Bruce could ever truly make each other happy. At least, not with the current status quo.
>>151348111Iirc these villains were the ones that decided to fuck with Terry's family/friends so it understandable why Terry didn't try to save them
>>151348111Saving villains is something you can only consistently do if you're as good as Bruce. Terry might have the suit, but between how much more self-destructive his enemies and and his own inexperience, he can really only afford to either save himself and civilians, or saving the villain. He can't realistically do both every single time. And by "self-destructive", I mean his enemies consistently tend to put themselves in position where it's impossible for Terry to save thm.
>>151356380Beyond has the overall vibe that it's just more extreme and more dangerous than it was in Bruce's heyday. That Gotham has become more outrageous in lots of ways in the future and maybe things that were possible in the past, like saving your vllains, aren't as possible any more.
>>151355837I mean they returned Blight in the comics but dunno how canon they are to the show
>>151356399I dunno about that. Blight is basically just discount Doctor Phosphorus and Bruce generally hasn't really had to kill Doctor Phosphorus in the comics.
>>151356413Btw i still don't understand why at some point they randomly decided to give him yellow colour instead of original green
>>151356608Dr. Phosphorus was already neon green, they probably wanted to do something to differentiate the two considering they are practically identical
>>151355688would have fit his character more
>>151356413Only the comics before 2.0 are "canon".
>>151353995Now he’s three face!
>>151356657I prefer Blight he’s angrier.
>>151355901No way Diana could die from that
>>151350528>just let me kidnap underage girls and mind wipe them you motherfucker!Epstein-eque
>>151356758Good to know considering how much bullshit they put in late volumes
>>151357601Yeah everything else is just fanfiction using the brand.
>>151347310All his efforts were for not as Gotham still had issues no matter what he did.
>>151357869Yeah. I do think he made a difference, though. Gotham somehow managed to keep from imploding in the years between his retirement and Terry picking up the mantle. In fact, it's funny. Shit only started getting bad against AFTER Terry became Batman.
>>151347310Even in Justice League he still had a lot of that warmth even if it got downplayed somewhat.
>>151357869>All his efforts were for notSee this right here is the thing you're not understanding. It was never about ENDING crime forever. It was never about the absolute eradication of evil. It was about one more night were a father can come home to his children, it was about how one more night a child doesn't have to suffer the pain of loss, to experience the harrowing dread of feeling powerless against the world, it was about just saving one more life. He made that difference every night he went out.
>>151358124He was kind of cold and standoffish at once, but I think being around people who really understood him to some extent helped a lot. Also, there's a degree of implication that things in Gotham settled down a lot, to the point where he probably had more stuff to do with the League than he did back home. The only member of his rogues gallery still causing trouble was the Riddler. Near as I can tell, nearly the entire rest of his enemies were either in jail or no longer regular villains.
>>151349741Bruce wears the Beyond suit in the opening to Rebirth, if that's what you're referring to. I always thought that was a core piece to why he had to give up the mantle: his heart was so thrashed that even the higher tech suit that wouldn't strain it still wasn't enough to assist him.
>>151348319I want to cum on his chest.
>>151347452"Luckily I carry my gravity inverting spray in my bat belt"
>>151358300He could have saved him
>>151347310He's old
>>151349332for you
>>151356817Modern phosphorus killed a kid
>>151358217Yeah. I'd imagine if it weren't for that, he could have kept going for another decade or so. I'm pretty sure the Bruce in The Dark Knight Returns was older than DCAU's Bruce when he retired. Hell, the Bruce in Kingdom Come was older than either.
>>151347386If Bruce were younger, he'd be sad and there'd be a tragic sense of loss and guilt at the end.But old Bruce is dead inside so there is no guilt or sense of loss.
>>151359462Heart conditions are often a consequence of steroid use, right? So it's probably the case that Bruce was juicing hard as he got older simply to stay in crimefighting shape, and he paid for it later down the line.
>>151358171You're not wrong that Superman and Batman recognize their efforts are part of the never ending fight for justice, not ending injustice however I think Bruce at least believed his efforts were preventing the worst, and yet by beyond not only are things worse but in fitting cyberpunk fashion society has clearly embraced it. The decadent live above the ruination, the influential live opportunistically from it and the dregs revel in it.And no amount of costumed crime fighting can resolve any of that, the Jokerz legitimately embraced the opposite out of spite for the example Batman and Robin set. And remember even if the youths don't know it, they're all wearing the trappings of someone who relentlessly tortured a youth for weeks just to see him crack, then left his broken mind for Harley to busy with.And in our world you can see these same sort of irony and contrarian infested philosophies thriving to no virtue. I don't fault Bruce for having a fittingly contemptuous parting line for a person who purposefully made themselves an amoral nuisance for no other reason than it amused and benefited him.
>quads captcha>>151348816Part of the problem (and the fun) is that Beyond really just had almost exclusively a bunch of no-names not connected to any legacy characters, so they mainly just shat out whatever ideas they had at random, which surprisingly turned out well for the most part.It also meant the majority of them didn't have plot armor.Sure, some stuck around tbqh I thought Inque was way overplayed way too fuckin' quick and I got annoyed by her coming back as often as she did, but the majority just got fucked.>>151350528Kinda poetic though. Hatter could've easily put Batman in some nightmare dimension to be tortured for all of "eternity", or killed him, or turned him into a slave, but he just put Batman into some happy dream world, and the only reason it didn't work was the whole "can't read in a dream" thing.Hatter's done far worse to loads of other people.
>>151359672What's funny is that even though youth gangs embrace the Joker and his imagery, there's almost no real evidence that anyone remembers Batman other than that one musical. Obviously, people do know who he is, but it's as if nothing he did really mattered.
>>151359957Nah, I think there was more to it. Bruce was clearly rejecting the dream world. The "can't read in a dream" thing only clued Bruce in as to what was going on, but something about the dream world just wasn't clicking with him. A part of him was rebelling.Also, a torturous world probably would have jolted him awake even faster.
So Bruce retired from being Batman at age 50. So how long was he active for? How old was he when he first put on the cowl? He seemed pretty young in the flashback scenes of Mask of the Phantasm. I'm guessing maybe 22 at oldest? Andrea called him a "boy billionaire" when they first met, so could he have been even younger?
>>151360489Funny you ask.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZIXwnuv6yY
>>151347826He was close to reforming the penguin too, If I recall he even made some rogues into super heroes by the time of JLU.I think the banker dude also reformed by his second appearance, always found it silly how that one banker obsessed with schedules kicked batman ass so thoroughly.
>>151347310Yeah well he thought Ten would go back to crime, except she opened her own restaurant and saved enough money to bail out her brother. Bruce’s methods always made things worse. He’s just as bad as his villains.
>>151360489About 30-ish years. Started when he was in his late teens or early 20s.
>>151357627>Somehow Joker returned..... again >Jason and Damian were Robins all along >Bruce was killed off by Batcomputer
>>151361129I hate anything that has to do with DCAU and Jason.
Because thats darker snd edgier snd hipper.
>>151360614Do you mean the Clock King? Because he KIND of reforms, insofar as he starts to work for the US Government. He's part of Cadmus in JLU, and he's basically mission control for the Not! Suicide Squad in "Task Force X."
>>151347826oh, and also if you're goin' by word of dan slott, riddler embarrassed batman by pulling a "it's not about the money" on him
>>151361129They gave him a solid de-design for what it's worth.
>>151361245Actually looks cool
>>151356803wouldn't Judge be no-face?
>>151361534Kek
>>151359486The guy literally killed one of Bruce’s scientists just to get the device. Why would he have any sympathy?
>>151361534Judge was so cool. Two-Face is such a cool villain.
>>151355837His death was meant to be the end of the series, but Beyond got renewed and Timm and Dini decided to keep him dead so as to not cheapen Terry's victory over avenging his father.
>>151355837Would you say his death was a blight on the series!
>>151349610Why did City and beyond remove the throw?Grabbing a goon in Asylum and throwing him into the abyss was partially what made Asylum so much more enjoyable for me than the rest of the series.
>>151355837The trouble is that he set up a good season arc that the later seasons just didn't bother trying to emulateIf there was more of a thread through S2 and 3 it would've helped some, though they had other problems
>>151348696Iirc Batman just straight up had no issues using guns in the 70s, as one example
>>151355929>You don't have to be as talented in this new world. Bruce's enemies were often geniuses, extraordinary monsters and genuine freaks. But in Terry's time, anyone can become just as dangerous with half the talent.That's gotta sting extra bad, seeing how many of his villains became brands. He beat them down dozens of times, but now anyone can slap on a patch or shoot up some gunk to keep that legacy alive.
>>151361534THEN WHO IS ONE FACE!?
>>151348514I remember quite a few of those guys, maybe you just got bad memory
>>151356050Bruce knowing who Catwoman is, while Selena never finding out who Batman is is a major change in their dynamic in terms of a romantic relationship. The cat and mouse of Bat/Cat and Bruce/Selina can never play out if Bruce knows Selena is far more damaged than she appears. Selena becomes a problem to fix rather than a person to admire the flaws of. I know people spurg at it, but the animated adaptaion of Hush is a pretty good way to see how the DCAU would have handled them getting together. Selena can never stop being a kleptomiac and Bruce can never put her before being Batman. Bill Finger's version of these two can find love because of a variaty of factors that no other incarnation of Batman really has. Except maybe Adam West's Batman funny enough.
>>151359521He probably used his own strain of venom.
>>151362876Dunno but iirc there are some mods that return it in City
>>151363263I forget post-Crisis Selina never actually knew his identity until Hush. Reading 90's Catwoman they still have to play it where she thinks Bruce Wayne is so hot and has no clue he's Batman.
>>151363425Wait he had it?
>>151355622That cover goes hard
Bump
>>151357627>>151356758I feel like the comics are their own universethe Batman Beyond comics during the 2010s to me are more like "What if there was a Batman Beyond universe as one of the 52 Earths in the New 52". Wasn't there something that said that when Earth-0 or whatever got rebooted for the New 52 it affected the rest of the Earths? To me that's what happened with 2010s Batman Beyond, Batman Beyond 2.0; it was fucking Barry's fault
Beyump
>>151366239Yes but there's Batman Beyond comics from the 90s. Two series. That's what I'm talking about. 2010, 2.0, & New 52 are their own things for obvious contradictions to the DCAU & the last one being literally part of the New 52 continuity.
>>151366239>it was fucking Barry's faultLike always
>>151347310As others have said, the years basically caught up with him. No matter how much he tried, Gotham barely changed. His enemies stayed their course until it killed them, refusing to truly change for the better. Why bother trying to reach out to them, push them to be better? Why even give a damn if they're just going to break out, do it all again, and still wonder why the guy in the bat suit is still coming after them? If they won't change after all the battles, then there's no use seeing their humanity anymore. Not to mention everything else he dealt with.Losing loved ones, having to maintain his grasp on his company and thus the legacy of his parents, relationships falling apart[I am not fucking seeing the Bruce/Barbara shit as canon though fuck that], and all the while he still has to go out and continue the mission even if it cost him his health because things just haven't changed no matter what he did as Bruce or Batman.All culminating in him resorting to the very weapon that killed his parents to scare off a petty thug because his heart was barely keeping up.Reality finally crashed down on him. The city wouldn't change, the people wouldn't change, and he stooped to a level he hoped he would never end up on. He saw the writing on the wall. If his health and everything around him wasn't saying it already, this sure was. He can't be Batman anymore. Not if it meant resorting to the mere threat of firing a bullet to save his own skin.Never again.
>>151350528Tbh not every villain was so petty towards Batman, I'm pretty sure both Harley and Harvey were grateful to Bruce for what he did for them
>>151369215And yet both Harvey and Harley remained villains (at least before Joker died)
>>151356031>In the DCAU, I think Barbara was Bruce's last real chance at a meaningful relationship, and that was it.That how she frames it, yeah. https://files.catbox.moe/duri2t.webm
>>151359462>I'm pretty sure the Bruce in The Dark Knight Returns was older than DCAU's Bruce when he retiredHe was 45 when Jason died. DKR Bats is 55.
>>151370084>DKR Bats is 55.Holy fuck he aged like shit
>>151368716This
>>151348974Even in BTAS you can see it, almost all the villains got reform episodes and not a one worked out culminating in the Trial where they all are confronted with their faults and decide to blame Batman instead
>>151356116>>151356050On this topic about ships in BTAS, I was surprised they tried to push this Batman-Zatanna ship, as mentioned by some other anon, they did have troubles with the idea of Selina and Bruce, but then we had in comics during those times the whole story of Batman actually not liking Zatanna due to him guessing that he had memories removed from his mind and bluntly telling her he doesn't trust her. I never liked The Batman cartoon, the designs at times felt too.... weird, perhaps it also has something to do with that large nose they gave Bruce.
>>151348233Ackstully the line is "hoist WITH his own petard"
>>151371927Most people these days seem to think that a petard was some kind of hook or line, but it was actually a small handheld bomb, basically an early Modern grenade. So when Shakespeare coined the line, what he means by "hoisted" isn't pulled up on a line, but literally blown into the air, Looney Tunes-style, from the explosion of your own petard going off right next to you."Hoisted by your own petard" literally means "blown up by your own bomb," which makes it a somewhat more dramatic expression than what people typically think of.
>>151347310He realized Gotham will never change. Only kids get to play superhero.He wasted his entire life trying to fix that hellhole of a city and lost or alienated everyone he cared about and things only got worse, how would you feel?
>>151372257I would ask Superman to turn back the time so i wouldn't waste my life second again
>>151372567Second time*
>>151372257You could argue he actively made it worse since think about all the deaths and events that were only done because one or more villains wanted to fuck with batman. >basically everything the joker did>riddler consonantly challenging batman with death game shenanigans>etc
>>151347310I really really love the cyberpunk look of Neo-Gotham
>>151371444The biggest show of refusing to change for the better all those chucklefucks had."Oh, it's not MY fault. It's BATMAN's fault."Batman can't change their ways if they're adamant in pinning the blame on him forever.Well, Harley changed in the end at least. That fall she had in Return of the Joker's flashback must've knocked some sense into her thick skull.
>>151348316I really liked this fact about the DCAU. Even Supes becomes less boyscout and more experienced as time goes on which culminates with him and Shazam conflict in Justice League. Man, those were the times.Also my favorite episode was the Justice Society of America one"Let Justice prevail!" still brings a tear to my eyes
>>15137060055 in 1986 had a whole different feel.
>>151348553Jim Gordon taught him well and he raped the Joker
>>151355837I agree, it would have been so cool to have his last stand be a movie like Return of the Joker
>>151363098He probably got extra salty with the appearance and growth of the Joker bands. I mean he was his archnemesis and an irredeemable monster, yet stupid punks all over the street idolize him and dress up like him, reminding Bruce of all the innocents who died to that maniac stupid kids admire so much.
>>151374073And yet it's so realistic, isn't it? People idolize serial killers and the Nazis, in the DC world why wouldn't there eventually be fanboy gangs of the most infamous supervillains? I've always really enjoyed that aspect of Beyond, it felt realistic.
>>151373956>older than everyone here minus the actual old guy on the left>look younger than all of them minus my perma-tired eyesI just assume these guys all smoked a shitload and that's why they all look 10-20 years older than they are?
>>151374146The wonders of having a lot less lead in your system. Granted we traded lead for micro plastics so we still have time to see how that fucks us up in the long run.
>>151369779If only rehabilitation was that easy.
>>151347318I unironically believe this is just that. Name 1 male fossil that has ever been nice and mentally uplifting? Men becoming uncaring after 60 is just natural.
>>151347310>steal intangible tech>use it to listen to gossip for your shitty show instead of doing inside trade to become a gorillionaireI swear everyone in Gotham is either a dumbass or crazy.
>>151374251Mr. Rodgers and Carl Sagan
>>151374269>Mr. Rodgers Was spiritually a 40s man.
>>151374073Clown pussy
>>151374646I remember cumming buckets to the Dee Dees when I was younger. Terry should have raped them!
>>151374669I was talking about the other girls
>>151374692Yeah but they're boring, DeeDee are made for shimaidon!
>>151347452Pull out the Tibetan technique that lets him astral project to save him.
>>151349160Sex with Marion Cotillard
>>151374669>>151374701>BOTH of them voiced by Melissa Joan Hart
>>151374783Dottie and Tayko are voiced by Lauren Tom and Cree Summer though, sexier voices
>>151363098As a trade-off though, they have no longevity. None of Terry'a villains are capable of building up a legacy, and have far less chance of being remembered in the years to go. Powers could have come close, but we all know how he turned out. The turnover rate for supervillains is insanely high. Bruce's villains often had a sense of self-preservation. Hell, one of his greatest foes' primary character trait was his sheer unwillingness to die. The closest thing Terry had to Ra's Al Ghul (aside from Ra's himself, funnily enough) was Kobra, and wouldn't use fucking know it, Kobra blew themselves up.Terry's villains have no brakes. All they can do is drive forward full speed until they crash and burn. Even if Terry didn't get involved, I feel like a good chunk of them would have died almost immediately anyway. Terry's purpose is more to prevent them from taking a ton of civilians along with them.
>>151374741This
>>151374868There's a level of restraint in Old Gotham that's missing from New Gotham. Probably a lingering aftereffect of all the organized crime. At least the mobsters pretended to have a code some of the time.
>>151347386Also the guy confessed to killing one of Bruce's remaining friends in a lab fire just to steal the technology that was then used to blackmail him over his identity. Bruce was ready to chalk his fate down to karma.
>>151375190I think it's not just that. The quality of villains in Terry's time really sort of have come down. A fair chunk of Bruce's enemies were geniuses or really just had a massive knack for villainy. Joker was already a highly accomplished mob hitman prior to becoming the Joker, with a tremendous talent for chemistry to boot. Harvey Dent was the D.A. of Gotham, but ended up being insanely good at being a mobster. Poison Ivy was a genius botanist who was able to create monster plants that responded to her whims, Victor Fries was at the forefront of cryo-tech and decades ahead of his time, Bane was super smart. The running theme was that Bruce's enemies were extraordinarily gifted, charismatic, often geniuses in their respective fields. Even Clayface, as powerful as he was, was only further enhanced by his exceptional acting talent. Now compare to Terry's villains. Yes, that one guy did create a venom patch that was in many ways an improvement over Bane's formula, but he certainly wasn't a tactician in the same manner as Bane. Many of them just use technology as a crutch. It also probably doesn't help that so many of Terry's villains were just teenagers the same age as he was.
>>151347318I think the bigger thing is how nothing changed. It's not like how Marvel's MC2 painted the future where things did improve for a good bit, in Batman Beyond it was just the same product in a different packaging. You see no clear evidence that Bruce's contributions improved anything for the city in all those years so it just makes him accept things. Now that I am typing it up it occurred to me that Batman Beyond is more of how Marvel up to that point usually did future/alternate reality shit where it's very cynical and edgy however MC2 was very90s DC style future/alternate reality where things are more upbeat and the new evil is what threatens to undo everything.
>>151372567>>151372583You jest, but knowing Bruce his younger self would not only refuse but insist on going even harder the second time around.And I doubt Superman could realistically prevent the Waynes from dying, not in crime alley but in general, eventually some psychopath was going to make an example of them the only thing that might change is Bruce dying too. Superman or whichever time traveler would have to convince Thomas and Martha to abandon Gotham for Bruce's sake to spare him, but also need to make sure someone catches the Graysons and takes Tim and Ace in.There Gordons are on their own.Talia and Dent probably can't be really saved.
>>151375345>Talia and Dent probably can't be really saved.:(
>>151374669Terry should have reformed them (with sex) and made them into RobinsAnd then had sex with them again>>151374868It's telling that Terry has so much trouble with Inque, she's one hell of a survivor compared to the restThen you've got guys like Spellbinder who make multiple appearances but are just kind of losers, even with their intelligenceAnd of course there's Mad Stan who has no brakes but is also a survivor and is 100% correct, and is thus the most dangerous villain of them all
>>151375678>and is 100% correct,I forgot what he did, why exactly is he correct?
>>151376106He took one look at the state of Beyond's world and wanted to blow it all upCan you really blame the guy
>>151376335Indeed based
>>151376335Why he looks like Lockdown though
>>151374146yeah 20th century people just look way older than they are
>>151373956Kek
>>151347310What good would caring do for him? Bruce knew he'd used the belt for too long anyway. Also Ian Peek was blackmailing Bruce prior to this scene, threatening to ruin his legacy completely, knowing full well he'd been Batman to help people over the decades. All Peek cared about was the success of his show and money, other than his mortality when he realized he'd fucked up in the end.Bruce refuses because its basic simple punishment for Peek's greedy and ambitious actions. He doesn't have to lift a finger to punish the villain for his immorality and careless decisions.
>>151355622Also the prosecutor was hot as hell.Rewatched it some months ago and nowdays, with my acquired taste in girls wearing glasses, i find her hotter than most of the rest of the female cast
>>151378389What about Baby Doll's assistant?
>>151378488She was sexy too, but the problem is how you cannot clearly see her eyes since her glasses are like mirrors.The prosecutor have that sexy librarian kind of appeal where you can clearly see her eyes and expression
>>151347310They're not "his" villains. He's done being the hero. As long as he isn't directly responsible for anyone's death, he doesn't give a fuck.
>>151378320Agreed, he needed to rest and enjoy the years he has left.
>>151374251That one old guy on Rockos Modern Life said it best>"You're going to be old one day, junior, if you're lucky. And then you too will feel the heartbreak of a prune diet or lost memories... the pain and loneliness of losing a loved one. Maybethenyou'll understand why old-timers aren't always the bright ray of sunshine you find yourself to be, eh, boy?"
>>151378783Only the good die young.
>>151378906One of the stupidest things ever said.
>>151375678>It's telling that Terry has so much trouble with InqueIn the show's entire run, Terry has never truly won a fight with Inque. She'll usually have him dead to rights before someone else intervenes (Bruce, her daughter, Superman, etc.). Even in JLU's Epilogue, Green Lantern ends up being the one who deals with Inque.
>>151358448>a mob boss’s kidSkill issue. Just don’t have evil parents bro.
>>151380450Based
>>151374231We know from arkham that guards used to torture others, thus keeping the rehab useless.>>151373537Neo Gotham was the perfect rendition of a future cyberpunk dystopia, Zeta was trying to bright side this part of it but still revealing how dark it is.
>>151379017It's weird how Bruce never developed a solid contingency for her. Nothing that truly worked, anyway. Like in the context of the DCAU, Inque seems like someone Bruce would easily develop three or four effective counters against.
>spends whole life fighting evil >becomes old and weak, unable to fight evil anymore>looks around, taking stock of what his lifetime of crusading has won:>jack shitYeah I'd be bitter too.
>>151347310Because he was written that way
>>151381149Seems like every time a counter is found, Inque adapts and renders it useless next time.
>>151381063>Neo Gotham was the perfect rendition of a future cyberpunk dystopia,Agreed. It was so badass I almost wanted to live in it
>>151378320Agreed, he deserved all that happened to him
>>151378320So basically his usual "I don't HAVE to save you" mindset.
>>151385895And its the more proper one
>>151348111Stalker lived through that btw
>>151348880The problem is that he said it outright. If Ra's had said "You won't kill me" and batman just turned around and left without saying anything it would've been kino.
>>151386395Nolan doesn't know how to write... especially not capeshit. So he doesn't understand Batman as anything but a generic action movie star with one quips.
