>first Crumb comic in 23 years>It's absolute kinoPeak Crumb. Just pure unfiltered cartoonist thoughts.
>>151350335STOP! remember the rules.-if you are gonna shill a comic or cartoon you have to give a link or story time it.only YOU can make /co/ a good board.
>>151350391This is you.
>mfw /co/ only talks about modern capeslop or tranny cartoons but has no time for a Crumb kinoQuite sad.
>>151350335Nice.
>>151350768Maybe people who like kino don't like this place, OP.
>>151350335Point me to the link bro
>>151351419If I could find one I would link it, but I have an actual issue. It's a one shot with a silver age size.
>>151350335Hadn't heard about this. Going to see if I can find a copy in one of my city's shops.
>>151351845Good luck.
>>151351023This.
>>151351023Yep. I'll read fucking anything aside from modern Big Two and I only come here like once a month. All is lost.
>>151350335Yeah, this was good. And recent events validate some of Crumb's paranoia (he wrote and drew most of this in 2023-24).
>>151354012you might as well not come here at all if you're only here once a month.
>>151350335I honestly thought he was dead. I'll have to go find it if >>151352522 and >>151353270 sadly doesn't continue. >>151354188The smart ones just come once a week for the Sunday strips.
Well I can't exactly discuss the comic if I have no idea what the comic looks like mate. Physical buyers have little to do in /co/
>>151350335does he acknowledge that the vax killed his wife?
>>151354621She had cancer anon
>>151354892>fast, agressive pancreatic canceryeah, about that... it's called immune evasion of cancer due to antibody-dependent cell phagocytosis and antibody-dependent cytotoxicity.How are your IgG4 levels? No refunds, tho.
>>151355169It’s called talking out your ass.
>>151350335HAY CARAMBA!
>>151354113Hes 100% right.>>151355169No anon, his wife most likely didn't take the vax.>>151356025Hawk Tuah, Man.>>151354340I mean there's pages of it on google images but they're such different qualities. Honestly it's so refreshing reading something on paper for 2025 by a legendary comic artist. Also the little comic with his wife was really whoelsome.
Is this readable? Also I bought like 4 copies of this so I think it's ok if I share it cus I know you fags ainte gonna buy it anyway.
wonder if crumb is following 3i atlas?
>>151357114I unno
Last one for now cus I'm sleepy. There's still like 25 pages left. Very good comic. It's crazy how modern superslop for the most part can't do shit in 24 pages but Crumb basically displays his ability at controlling panels and says so much in just a few pages.
>>151357030Holy! Based Anon
>>151357270Dun goofed. This is the next page.
mucho texto
>>151357427Yes but just read it slowly. It isn't filler shit like other comics. If you step back and look at it most bubbles are about the same text as this message I wrote to you (from beyond time and space).
>>151356881
>>151357407Thank you anon for some storytime
Man it's kinda sad to read this insane shit being told so well. For all his faults you can't say Crumb is unskilled
>>151357298I don't know if I agree with what he's saying here. No amount of censorship is going to stop paranoid delusions, sure, but platforming them and giving them space to be treated as legitimate sure as hell isn't any better.
>>151359326I'm liking it so far and wonder how it ends. By Crumb's own admission here >>151353270 there is an element of self-aware unreliability. The book is titled Paranoia after all. It's a good firsthand account so far of the kind of cherry picking and pattern recognition that happens when someone tries to make sense out of a lot of chaos happening around him. The sad thing is there are some truths involved here but any nuance gets collapsed because an individual person isn't equipped to figure out all this shit on their own so we're all left flailing. And before anyone gets tribally direction brained, this is something that affects everyone across any political spectrum. I don't know what the solution is but I feel like getting a peek inside Crumb's mind is an inch towards finding a way to bridge that gap.
>>151358290>Gets triple vaxxed>Forms aggressive cancerOk. So then that means the vaxx wasn't a Jewish Zionist plot. Aileen was Jewish. That means the mRNA edit was designed to attack Jews. Which further proves that Pfizer and people in the government are actually genuinely 100% part of the Fifth Reich and the Nazis, the real ones not the generic dead end larpers, really do run our Government.But hey... That's just a... TALE OF PARANOIA>>151359326It's very expertly written and I think why it's one of the best comic one shots of the year. He really knows what he's doing and he even writes how this might be real or might not. The cover looking like a classic EC Horror comic also helps.
>>151357030>I know you fags ainte gonna buy it anyway.I bought a copy, my LCS had them on the counter by the register
>>151359976Ok but did you buy 4 copies? (I ordered them during the Fuck Diamond Fantagraphics sale)
>>151359992I got one copy. They did sell out though.
>>151360033Did you put it in a bag and board? My BCW Silver Age bag and board doesn't really fit sonic had to use one one of the Thiick Silver Age versions.
>>151360078>Did you put it in a bag and board?Not yet, still on my desk.
>>151359776I agree with you.
>>151359776It feels like the classic kneejerk absolutism of modern freedom of speech in the face of censorship; which never really has a clear comment on how much social media has fucked with normal people's identity, perception and ability to understand things. Yes, censorship is bad, but people have gone nuts with the ability to constantly comment on everything, it has warped their psychology. The liberal elite's problem is it comes across as patronising in its messaging. But the slow descent into paranoia in parts of that comic often begin with, well I don't believe all this stuff but some of this stuff is interesting. Which sounds like a reasonable proposition of an inquisitve person, fine, but spirals into people thinking they have mastery over every subject because a comment they found they instantly believe (despite saying question everything) simply because it was a counter narrative to something. Then they anchor that point. So many big conspiracy theorists also began as people who were humiliated at some point and went looking for those counter narratives to save themselves from ego death.
>>151350335I never really got Crumb. Had some good gags I guess
How does this motherfucker still draw like this in his 80s
>>151360550Yeah I've been thinking about how the very public nature of social media and the way tech companies have successfully shifted norms to attach your real name to your online presence create the perfect conditions for that kind of humiliation and counter narrative seeking. If you say something stupid in private or anonymously then it's easier to step away or for someone to take you to the side and explain why you might be wrong. But if you're put on blast by hundreds or thousands of people then you're bound to be immediately defensive due to that immense social pressure and need to protect your sense of self. And that's not even getting into the profit motive you see with some of the kind of "just asking questions" engagement bait operations.
>>151357237>>151357217Uncle Bob is teaching me things here
>>151357298I miss Hitchens...
>>151361698It's basically like being stuck in the past with no future. The information age is trapping our society. I said dumb shit as a kid but no one remembers besides a few very old friends who might remember cringe moments. But now, we can't contextualise the past properly, because we have every moment there and visible. Too much information to ever construct a narrative from. Should I apologise for my past comments just because they fell out of fashion or I was dumb and people have a record of them online? But people are put on blast for comments and how else can they react. People don't comment on the journey or give the benefit of the doubt, they attack moments, people can't escape so they double down. All of this is about human psychology and less about the substance of these arguments or conspiracies. People who say question everything don't truly question everything. They don't live by the structure of that logic. They live by human psychological responses like double down, counter narratives etc. People think virtual reality is like the Matrix, plug into a machine. But it isn't. A horror movie is an artificial experience inducing physiological and psychological responses. A fake moment making your body and mind react. Social media goes further, rage bait, the socialising, all of it is virtual reality, changing your reactions, your psychology. We weren't built or adapted for it. To have all these people looking at our shame. It broke us
https://youtu.be/VrSQinf8QtoA video on how we all became paranoid.
>>151361675Talent
>>151361904The bit about the media exaggerating all the threats is really the main part of the problem. .
>>151360550>>151361698>Yes, censorship is bad, but people have gone nuts with the ability to constantly comment on everything, it has warped their psychology To an extent this is an issue, but I think fake discourse is a bigger factor than anything else right now. Freedom of speech is essential, but if a huge chunk of the speech is fake, then the whole marketplace of ideas is a manipulated market. Social media is structured in a way that makes this easy. With bots, fake accounts, buying followers and likes (you can even buy them for other people without them knowing, important to remember), etc. With enough resources, you can shape discourse easily. Until we find a better way of handling fake/forced discourse, the world is going to get crazier. Especially when countries are dedicated to fucking with the discourse for their enemies. States like Russia and China have been found to promote radical narratives of all kinds, both far-right and far-left. No individual can compete with those resources. All we can do is try to stay sane in this environment, staying rational about sources and what we can know. The problem is at scale, you can't inoculate every person in the world from crazy ideas, especially not kids. So even with perfect education, you're going to have a percentage of the population going nuts from all this.
>>151362037And of course none of this is a commentary about any specific conspiracy being discussed in this thread. Just a commentary on the mechanisms that make it hard to have sane discourse nowadays.
>>151359776>No amount of censorship is going to stop paranoid delusions, sure, but platforming them and giving them space to be treated as legitimate sure as hell isn't any better.So the paradox of tolerance?
>>151362037And of course it’s not just the fake discourse either. The platforms themselves are optimized for engagement, which usually means outrage and drama. So once the fake stuff is injected, the algorithms happily amplify it because it keeps people clicking. The combination of fake discourse and platform incentives ends up converting some percentage of people into legitimate believers, who then further amplify the problem.
>>151360565What's to get? He draws well, he likes fat asses, and he like Jazz/Blues music. Simple as.
>>151357217>superstitious indoctrination is child abuseyeah no shit crumb
>>151357407Thanks Anon, hope you can get to the rest later. I'm interested to see where Crumb's going with this and his art is great as ever.>>151361904Based Curtis enjoyer. I don't think he's right about everything (who is?) but his deep dives into the causes of societal ills are usually on the money. Also holy shit, look how civil the side of /co/ that actually reads comics can be when the OP isn't just outrage bait.
>>151361904Good vid.>>151362037My least favorite thing about websites where you can post your opinions, like here or 4chan, is precicley the element of bot messages and users. Yes, it's one thing to shitpost on here and lie for fun as an individual but it's another to do that on a mass scale with an ulterior motive besides (you)s and upboats. Because it not only is immoral but it becomes spam. Readable spam. Spam that makes other users mad or upset so they attack other people.
>>151360550>So many big conspiracy theorists also began as people who were humiliated at some point and went looking for those counter narratives to save themselves from ego deathThat literally happens in the book, Crumb's friend backs him into a corner and steam rolls him with lib elite orthodoxy
>>151362335As seen here>>151357174
>>151362386I wonder if Crumb would have been more tempered if his friend tried to assuage his fears instead of knee jerking and dumping out the party line. Hell I've been on both sides and let me say opinions will never change and will in fact harden when someone just dumps their side's rehearsed talking points on the debate "opponent", because 9/10 the "opponent" already has heard most of the variations.
>>151362469I think the doctor handled it poorly. Instead of just saying "TRUST THE SCIENCE" you could have a discussion like "y'know, I really do understand that brand new experimental drugs are untested and have life ending side effects" but then bring up something like "when we had swine flu scare of 70s we had another untested vaccine. A small percentage of people were also affected"Like I know the big scare was that mRNA was made to cull the population (eerily enough there is British show called Utopia that came out and was cancelled a few years before covid about coming world epidemic) but I think one thing to consider is that in time mRNA could be used to treat cancer directly, basically making cancer obsolete. This would kill big pharma in a way, it would stop the flow of "cancer research" donations. It would end cancer treatment patents. Yes, if a company has the money to create a treatment for cancer, they could be barred by law from proceeding because it could infringe on a patent another company owns. As in, if there is an affordable and safe treatment method, it could be blocked so people keep using an expensive and side effect prone method. I just think it's sad and scary that there DOES exist a system in place that profits on keeping people unhealthy and sick.
My favorite story in the book.
>R. CrumbWhat does the R stand for?
We reached the middle of the book. Leaving it here for now. I hope you like reading words.
>>151362691Red CrumbRED CRUMBRED RUM
>>151362680What I find really refreshing about Crumb's take on this is that he's willing to acknowledge feeling unsure. Almost all the discourse around this on both social and news media was either rabidly pro or anti, that you're a terrible, dangerous person if you don't take a side and tow the line. I imagine a lot of people who weren't so vocal quietly shared his doubts, I know I did.>>151362696>You're not required to completely agree with his or anyone else's politics.>You don't even have to like people to learn things from them.Man, he's spitting truth here.
>>151362637>>151362647>Robbit>AhtWhat accent did Aline have?
>>151362688>>151362696Dave Sim and Crumb should get together for a project, they'd piss many people off but they'd have beautiful lettering
>>151354621oh shit, I didn't know Aline died
>>151363015Nuw Yak Jews, hanney. Bohn an raised.RIP and props to the woman who tamed Crumb.
>>151363057Somebody please make a dang font from these pages. Do it fer humanity. If you guys like Crumb's lettering check out his Book of Genesis. People always talk about his horny and gross comics but that book is A WORK OF ART.>Meet some afghan vet who liked growing weed>Totally into crazy ideas and he brings up his opinions on religion>I bring by the Crumb book and burritos>Hes going through it, spills beans on the pageYou know, I wasn't mad at him. I felt bad for the book and those pages. Guy was much older than me at the time but he was like a big kid.
crumbp
>>151362046In a way I suppose. Free speech absolutists will champion "the marketplace of ideas", the dream that bad ideas will be naturally filtered out by virtue of being effectively argued against. This makes the mistake of not recognizing that social media isn't a space for true discourse.Algorithms seek to feed you a constant stream of what you want to see and hear so you stay engaged with their platform. In this way, platforming crazy ideas actually worsens our ability to understand and debate ideas. You can be given a perfect space to never be challenged. Your crazy ideas are reinforced with likes and engagement and ragebait, pulling you further down the rabbit hole. When your ideas are challenged, the structure of social media makes it feels like a threat to you personally which, more than likely, will make you dig your heels in further to the spaces that give you validation rather than actually doing the tough thing of considering you were wrong all along. It's a downward spiral into noise and further delusional thinking.This isn't even taking into account how platform owners weigh algorithms in favor of particular ideas and how bots can flood platforms with fake discourse and engagement.
>No Crumb ladies to oggleWhat happened?
>>151365443He's a good boy now.
>>151365443He's 82, I think his days of thinking with his dick are long over.
>>151350335>old as fuck>still draws as fine as decades agoI want to be him when I'm old.
>>151357030thanks anon >I know you fags ainte gonna buy it you're damn right.
>>151362647kek
>>151362688>>151362696
>>151350335Bump
>>151362046Paradox of tolerance, a tolerant society tolerates intolerance and intolerance destroys the tolerant society. Paradox of freedom of speech, absolute freedom of speech creates a situation where freedom of speech cannot exist and flourish. We do need some agreed upon "rules", but people knee jerk with "well applying any rules is bad" because sure, bad faith actors can abuse this, society defining those rules is a constantly vigil and ongoing process. Freedom of speech isn't under attack, it's constantly probed and challenged. I think the problem is a lot of agreed upon rules in the past were social conventions through some similar shared culture, convention is not like laws, it's agreed upon unspoken social contracts, but as we have no cultural focal points we've lost that We know the problems. Algorithms seeking engagement, fake content, the sheer amount of information being produced meaning it's impossible to understand anything, making simple narrative stories attractive. The market place of ideas is a weird phrase because people think it means natural selection for ideas, good ideas will naturally be memes passed down like genes, bad ideas will die out. But just like evolution now, we have no true natural selection in the face of abundance. Society changes too rapidly for our feet to remain on the ground. But a market place should still have rules to work. You can't have stalls mixed together so people don't know who to pay, or people with a stall in the middle of a path. The marketplace of ideas needs structure. But when you say this people instantly clap back with the no rules, because again, yes, rules can be bad or abused. The Internet just has no rules and encourages sin after sin, pride in your opinion, gluttony of opinions, sloth in not working on anything, wrath which is obvious, lust, envy, greed.
>>151357191He's completely lost it ;_;
>>151350335Why does Old Man Crumb make me laugh more?
>>151362335That's why I mentioned it. But I remember some other prominent examples:Naomi Wolf wrote a book about criminal history that got something fundamentally wrong. >Dr Sweet pointed out that she had misunderstood the term “death recorded” in historical records. Wolf had believed it signified an execution, and claimed that she had found “several dozen executions” of gay men after the last recorded execution for sodomy in 1835. However, the term reflects a crime punishable by death that was commuted to a custodial sentence, a common occurrence. The book was subsequently pulled and pulped in the US, and corrected in the UK by Wolf’s publisher, Virago.She got facts wrong. Got humiliated. And then went off the deep end.Candace Owens is another one. She began as left wing and wanted to build SocialAutopsy, a site that would track anonymous users to basically name and shame people while were racist/bigots/troll. But then she faced huge scrutiny, including other leftists who thought it attacked civil liberties. And that led to her journey. Big public shaming people couldn't cope with.
>>151366959>Freedom of speech isn't under attack,I mean isn't *just now under attack. As in, it's a constant process.
>>151367001No, YOU lost it.
>>151357174>science doesn't follow the rules of . . . logicA bold statement
>>151362688>>151362696The dense scrawls of text in the middle of the comic gave me flashbacks to his brother doing the same thing in the comics they made together
>>151366959The paradox of tolerance is a thought experiment that assumes as a given that the mere presence of any intolerant ideas will inevitably result in intolerance taking over, which is rather ludicrous once you try to apply it to real world scenarios. It fails to understand that tolerance is not a synonym for acceptance. The paradox of free speech has a very similar issue.
>>151367697I mean the thought is that every system needs an acceptable group of core rules and when those rules are called into question, an informed minority can beat an apathetic majority and destroy the rules or system. The original traitor style social deduction games like Mafia and Werewolf were created with this idea, that informed minorities tend to beat the majority who don't have the same information. Really it's just saying that when we fail to have agreed set upon rules, then society, particularly liberal democracy, has issues functioning.
>>151362037>>151365403We're all getting our brains cooked just like Crumb and it's hard to navigate this shit individually. I don't blame his paranoia.>>151367077Reminds me of Elon Musk going ballistic over that submarine thing because he got embarrassed in public. Now he's pushing his AI chatbot as an objective source of information which continues to be tweaked so that it glazes him hard and whatever pet topics he thinks he's an expert in. The Musk stuff is funny to me because he's always literally trying to buy his way into reshaping reality. It also goes to show that even the most well off people aren't immune to the kind of wounded ego paranoia spiral that Crumb is working through.
>>151367899Modern liberal democracy is meant to be the will of the majority but with protections and rights for the individual and minority. It's meant to be pluralistic with multi culture. The problem is, multi culture is often just multiple mono cultures living in parallel lives without community. Modern society adores the tyranny of the minority now. And social media really promotes all this.
>>151359776>but platforming them and giving them space to be treated as legitimate sure as hell isn't any better.bro, just apply the Socratic method whenever you see schizo shit being posted. Normoids will come to understand how retarded it all is, and schizos will have a rage-stroke over theiur inability to deal with their own retardation. EZ-PZ.
>>151368025Socratic method doesn't really work online because people just get mad thinking everyone is trolling so double down.
I hate the retreat into >I'm just questioning things bro. >Aren't these things interesting.Just say it, that society/bureaucracy/the system is built in a way to weed out certain personality types and the people in control are parasites.
>>151368046anon, the point isn't to convince the person you're arguing with. That's almost always impossible because the person you're arguing with, 9 times out of 10, doesn't want to be convinced of anything. The point is to convince any neutral on-lookers. Trying to deplatform people doesn't help with that, it just makes it look like you can't defend your position at all. Socrating the fuck out of them on the other hand illustrates the thought process behind their conclusions, and why they're retarded.
>>151368142Most onlookers are trapped in singular narratives and aren't neutral. Deplatforming causes issues, sure. But platforming them, even with scrutiny, does nothing. Charlie Kirk was routinely demolished by people but then posted videos edited without that stuff. He also picked the best targets too. So many people just do the teflon play book and keep going.
>>151368220>Most onlookers are trapped in singular narratives and aren't neutral.well then you're fucked either which way. If people already believe the schizo, then you've lost, and platforms aren't going to change anything. Might as well let the schizo give his two cents at that point.>Charlie Kirk was routinely demolished by people but then posted videos edited without that stuff.just post the videos where he got demolished then>but muh algorithmnsthat sounds like a platform being shit more than whoever is occupying it. If all it does is spew shit, then it won't matter who is and isn't on it, it'll be shit regardless.The fact of the matter is, forcibly removing people from discourse is not going to fix discourse, calmly and rationally explaining why they''re retarded is. Anything else just leads to mindless consensus at best, and violence at worst.
>>151367977"mean to be"????? utter 100% BS. It's presented as, but it's NOTHING of the kind. Get educated before you utter more inanities:https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746direct link to the PDF: http://www.princeton.edu/~mgilens/Gilens%20homepage%20materials/Gilens%20and%20Page/Gilens%20and%20Page%202014-Testing%20Theories%203-7-14.pdf
>>151368778>that sounds like a platform being shit more than whoever is occupying it.That's the whole point that people have been getting at ITT. Crumbs points don't always work simply because what we're talking about is far beyond the singular generalisations about the nature of speech.The issue is the platforms. Not just algorithms and how they operate but how they interact with people who are not adapted for them. A simple example would be boomers believing AI slop because they don't have the experience to discern. And there seems to be no good conclusions on how to fix this, beyond vague conversations around teaching people. Calmly explaining why people are retarded doesn't work because of how people come to these platforms, it just causes double down. Unless we go Butlerian Jihad on technology, I don't see it changing. We're just being dragged in so many directions.
>>151368866>but it's NOTHING of the kindThat's what I was saying...
>>151369074People have zero reading comprehension
>>151369059>And there seems to be no good conclusions on how to fix this, beyond vague conversations around teaching peopleThat's because you can't fix it. We went through the same process with the invention of the printing press, were everyone believed whatever horseshit was in the pamphlets because they hadn't adapted to it yet. We eventually managed to get used to it (for the most part) and the same thing is going to happen with the internets. You just have to wait for people to acclimatize and try not to lose your own head in the mean time.
>>151369513I don't think the printing press is a good analogy because the limitations of it and the sheer staggering amount of differences. One key difference is, the rate of past technology prior to the 19th century was so much slower. So yes, the printing press did have a big huge influence and people caught up to it, but now technology is so fast paced that by the time you catch up with one thing, other things have moved on past.
>>151369875KWAB
Interesting, especially the comparison with the scientific community and the church.
