The mastermind even made it look so easy. Dude had a Royal Flush the entire time in his hands.
>>151356027His only worthy opponent went to Heaven
>makes you fall in love>leads you on >rejects you>laughs in your face>breaks your heart>make you obsessed for 70 years>turns your friends against you>kicks your ass>ruins your plans>calls you a fucking creepIs he the cruelest Stacy in western animation?
lmao nah, I had his shit clocked a mile away. just because the characters are retarded doesn't mean the viewers are.I'll admit I didn't quite expect him to cash in his favor with Charlie as part of the whole thing, nor did I quite expect the semantics of Vox literally just touching Charlie breaking the deal, but broad strokes, it was completely obvious the moment he turned himself over to Vox.
His entire scheme was obvious and hinged on simultaneously building up while also psychologically destroying the same patsy he mind broke decades ago. It's like lauding Jerry for getting Tom to run into a hot iron.
>>151356027I thought he was going to force Rosie to come get him as he was her property not vox
>>151356027His plan depends on a one in a million chance event Bad writing to justify him
>>151356851>The plot progresses in a way everyone knew was going>"The writing is...le bad!" XDRetards will say anything to be contrarian.
>>151356027Not really no, if you wanted to surprise me it would’ve been Vox killing him and not keeping him as a prisoner.
>>151356925The writing is bad because Vox is not established as compulsively gropey. Alastor had no way of predicting this exact set of circumstances. He isn’t Tzeentch
>>151356946Okay.
>>151356027He tricked me real good into sticking my dick in his ass. Damn, what a mastermind.
>>151357086If I made a deal with Alastor where he had to make me cum for every sarcastic and edgy comment he'd make then I'd be set for life.
>>151356925Just because everyone knew it was going to be bad, doesn't make it any less bad.
>>151356995Isn't he though? Almost every time he is interacting with someone he is touching them. In this season he's gotten handsy with The Vees, Charlie and Alastor
>>151356027Is Alastor planning to take over hell? He seems to be interested on Lucifer now after discovering he can't kill demons. He could force Charlie to marry him and become prince of hell but he already used his contract
I figured his end goal was basically contract fraud against Rosie the second he surrendered to Vox.My assumption was that if Vox lords power over him and torments him then he is necessarily no longer the strongest sinner in hell (being beholden to Vox) and a tormented soul. The two things he asked for when he made his contract with Rosie. Meaning Rosie failed to uphold her end of the deal, and the contract would be void. So, I'm most surprised his binds didn't break sometime between when Vox was parading him around and him having to watch Vox and Val fuck.As for getting out of his contract with Vox, obviously he can void it if Vox violates the terms of the contract as we saw. And since Al knows Vox well enough to know he likes to make physical contact when talking to someone all he really had to do was get him and Charlie in the same room for a few minutes. Worst case scenario he uses the favor to get Charlie in Vox's vicinity. Or just asks her to give Vox a hug or something.But, alternatively, his contract with Vox would also end if Vox died. And considering he's in the middle of declaring war on heaven, the likelihood that he would die sometime in the immediate future was very high.If the plan had played out more realistically, we wouldn't have had the big, theatric, sweep in the final hour that we got. Realistically Al could've sat by and done literally nothing and still probably win in the end. But 1. it's a tv show. 2. It was always a good plan built on solid foundations. The actual moment to moment of how it was going to play out was always inconsequential details.
Is it really a royal flush when your entire plan relies on your captor having oneitis for you to the point he actively wants to kill himself and everyone else around him over it
>>151356027It was based on a detail about demon deals we were never told. Deals can be broken.We had every reason to assume deals were unbreakable. That if Vox tried to lay hands on Charlie he simply wouldn't be capable of it.
>>151356995>several scenes of vox touching people when interacting with them, like >>151359203>HUR DUR THEY DIDN'T OUTWARDLY STATE HE'S TOUCHY IT DIDN'T HAPPENIt's one of the times they actually fucking got it right with "show, not tell" and why Alastor's deal with him works so well. Alastor KNEW he was like that and was going to do it, it wasn't just bullshit "wordplay" - he fully intended that to be the way Vox broke the deal since that's how he knew Vox to act with everyone.
>>151356851> one in a millionnot really, vox touches people all the time whether he needs to or not.
>>151356995Vox was touching Alastor like crazy and he runs a rape empire with a rapist and date rape peddler, the fuck you on about?
>>151356027Honestly I get why Charlie would be stupidly naiive with deals but I would've figured other demons like Vox would've been a bit more careful? Maybe write out a proper contract with stricter details? Just since it seems like a very obvious and common thing for demons to use wordplay and vague loopholes in deals in order to catch people out and get an advantage (yet Vox seems shocked that Alastor would do such a thing). Nearly every time we saw them brought up, its in a monkeys paw kind of way, or like, how you'd need to be really specific with your wish to a genie in order for them not to misinterpret what you want.
>>151356995Alastor knows Vox like the palm of his handHe even knows that what he yearns for the most is his approval, which sets his entire plan in motionAfter being hyped up for so long I'm glad Alastor finally did something that proves that he's just not a smug asshole
Not really? Warlock is my favorite TTRPG Class so Patron deal breaking is pretty standard.
>>151360375>but I would've figured other demons like Vox would've been a bit more careful?Why do so many of you retards not seem to clue in that Vox goes full retard around Alastor because he loves him? Of course he'd immediately fall for Alastor's deal, he hyperventilated at the very thought of it
>>151360509>Vox goes full retard around Alastor because he loves himIt's more like romantic hate. Don't make me talk about the quadrants. If you know you know.
>>151360311This is the baffling part for me, like by this logic can't the response to "you're my pet" be "no I'm not," thereby invalidating the deal? I was fine with Alastor manipulating circumstance to create a logic error and void his other contract, though.
>>151356027if alastor dared vox to shit his pants would he do it
I personally think we should have seen Alastor acting like how he did in the last two episodes in the first season and the first half of Season 2 instead of being this pathetic, ineffective, dumbass bitch who couldn't even remember his own mission for his freedom. It just feels more like he just had his plan happen because it just had to.
>>151356027I knew the deal was screwy of course and Alastors 'capture' was intentional, but was genuinely blindsided by the 'laying hands' part. Initially I even thought Viv fucked up and he had said " .. you're not to lay 'a' hand on Charlie Morningstar", which would make literal interpretation a retarded way to break the deal since you could just be even more literal and say he laid 'two' hands on her, not 'a' single hand. But I went back and checked and he said, " ... you're not to lay your hands on Charlie Morningstar."So actual unironic bravo Viv. You got me.>>151360345Also it's fair to suggest that even Viv is not so retarded that she wouldn't go back and make sure he touches people before that, so I'm going to assume that's the case without actually checking.
>>151356027He's still a lame bitch though.
I love how he was so crafty and manipulative that even Rosie had to respect his hustle.I feel like Alastor and Rosie are genuinely friends even after him freeing himself from slavery, they just both have respect for the game.
>>151356027I was pleasantly surprised that it worked out in his favor. A bunch of us already called it awhile ago, but it's strange that Vox has been in Hell for 70+ years and never understood the fundamentals of Demon deals where you have to be extremely particular about your deals and think about technicalities and loopholes like "lay a hand on-" but to be fair he didn't know about Alastor's deal being the "strongest sinner in Hell", I guess
>>151360799I love how she smiled at him knowingly like a proud teacher. "Well played"
>>151360799they're both in it for the love of the game which is why I think people are wrong when they think Alastor is gonna want revenge on Rosie, he knows it's just business
>>151356027I guess one issue is that everybody needs to be such a total fucking idiot for any of Alastor’s plans to work, he is basically going “I AM EVIL AND I’M MANIPULATING YOU” 24/7.This does work perfectly when it comes to Vox who is well established to be in love with Alastor and only “thinking” with his dick but what the fuck is wrong with everybody else?
>>151360865Exactly. He's a son of a bitch, but he plays by Gentleman's Rules (most of the time).
Like everything viv does, a good idea and good execution is ruined by the pathetically bad dialogue.Fuck stops being edgy or meaningful after saying it like 3 times, and just becomes obnoxious when said for the 20th time in 5 minutes.
>>151360517Vox's IQ is inversely proportional to his proximity to Alastor.
>>151360909>Fuck stops being edgy or meaningful after saying it like 3 times, and just becomes obnoxious when said for the 20th time in 5 minutes.They're demons in Hell, were you really expecting them to watch their language?
>>151360335To be fair, it still relies on Vox being a retard and not analyzing the wording of his deal despite there being a solid chance he would record it and play it on repeat to gloat. It also relied on Vox being able to successfully bait Charlie (not hard), achieve his propaganda goals to get near the threshold of getting more powerful (some real serendipity there), and get in a position to pick a fight with heaven. If the last two didn't happen, the only real contingency would be Rosy bailing him out or waiting an indeterminate period of time for Vox to touch Charlie in other circumstances. Probably like a 1/3 chance of working, 1/3 that he eventually breaks the contract with Vox but not Rosie, and 1/3 that it completely fails and he's either Vox's slave forever or is killed. I give it a C+, which is pretty good for a brown radio guy that kills people.
Ignoring the in-universe reactions, I'd be seriously surprised that anybody in the audience had not seen it coming. Nothing about it was subtle or felt even remotely clever. The show was literally spelling out for you how Alastor's plan is gonna play out.It was incredibly on the nose and predictable.
I just don't understand why Charlie saying Vox was the strongest sinner suddenly made it so and broke Rosie's deal. She only said it because of Alastor's deal not because she meant it, and she may be the princess of Hell but surely if anyone had the authority to declare a Sinner as the official strongest it would be Lucifer, right?And why is that the metric instead of something objective? Could Alastor have pulled the same trick but just gotten Charlie to call Niffty the strongest or something? Vox probably WAS the strongest as the only demon to harm Heaven, but it didn't seem to matter until Charlie said something and that part of the deal seemed to be important to Alastor. It's just strange.
>>151361097Vox is the only one that wants to be that powerful and has the weird ability to reach it by high ratings
>>151361097Vox was empowered by his public support. Charlie is a big deal in hell, so her giving up by calling Vox the strongest removed any doubts. Of course, Omega Vox shitting the bed fighting a weaker Alastor with a dysfunctional staff is a bit questionable. You would also think that Alastor having his reputation further destroyed in the same moment would disadvantage him. Maybe Vox is just a bitch who can't fight even with twice as much raw power.
>>151361217People keep saying that Alastor kicked his ass but he would have killed Alastor if it wasn't for Emily.
>>151356027Just dropping in the Alastor apology form in here
>>151361335>>151356027I wonder what the Hazbin Hotel fandom looks like. I know you're all underage gen-alphas and very young gen-Zenners, but it feels more like a theory and a distant idea rather than something literally in my face I can judge for.I don't even need to see your abnormal ugly bodies and ugly skin color, I just need to see your faces.
>>151360657Vox would totally shit in Alastor's pants.
>>151361367>your facesno one is faceposting on 4chan
>>151361402I meant to say feces.
I'm going to cum inside that twink brat ass and then I will make him watch Bambi 24/7 until he is mindbroken.
>>151361335Alastor-sama... I...
>>151361335N
>>151361536I
>>151361559G
>>151359203>>151356995Reminder that Alastor is a hypocrite.
>>151361564G
>>151361564H
>>151361567E
>>151361571R
>>151360799I assume she was smiling because she just figured out a way to get back at Alastor, given he loves deals.
You know, I wish they foreshadowed things a bit better. I wish it was made more obvious that Vox touches people in that way, I feel like we barely saw it. I wish they pushed Baxter a bit more as a red herring (I hate it when the red herrings are super obvious, but there was fucking nothing with him). I wish we got to see Angel be a bit more "off" and I really, really wish they made it clear that Vox was actually mysteriously one step ahead because as it stands the twist wasn't exactly a twist when were never fucking wondering how Vox was able to outplay Charlie because we all collectively were just under the impression of "yeah, Charlie's a fucking idiot, makes sense this is happening".
>>151360626Classpect them.
>>151361335to think people accused the showrunner of just winging it!!alastor was planning for mr tv head man to touch charlie since s01e01!!!!
>>151361566Alastor is allowed to touch CharlieHe's the father she never had, it's spelled out in him and lu's duo song
>>151359203I think it doesn't stand out since every "show-man" character does this.
>>151356851Isn't that how most stories these days go?>OMG, THAT ONE IN A MILLION CHANCE THING HAPPENED!
>>151361690He'll have my respect when it turns out he crushed Vox's spirit back then, knowing I would give hime a manipulatable complex down the line.
>>151361733I mean most stories these days aren't very good, so....
>>151356027Alastor literally be all;>TRUST THE PLAN!
>>151361428Haha, not me, but that's funny.>>151361402>no one is faceposting on 4chan>>>/soc/catalog.html>A TECHNICALITY>A FUCKING TECHNICALITY?!!?!
>>151361745NTA but what are some of your favorite stories?
>>151360865He might go for revenge just because that's part of the game as well. Why leave Rosie hanging by NOT trying to get one over on her for good?
>>151361855>Alastor kills Charlie’s mom for good without anyone realizing it.
>>151356069Jokes on him, since this only gets him closer to redemption now that he'll be helping Charlie without being bound.
>>151360375Alastor got Vox off guard with a sudden release of pressure while in the middle of a gang fight
>>151360799>>151361855Probably not the best idea to screw with the girl who can make someone the most powerful sinner in hell (somehow)It's not like Rosie treated Alastor that badly, compared to Husk and Angel it seemed like their relationship was pretty good.
Seriously, why hasn't Alastor killed Vox by now? His whole thing was offing other Overlords and broadcasting their screams, now after all the public humiliation rituals, he's just going to let everyone else take the victory and let Vox live another day?
>>151362097>attention whore killing his #1 fanAlastor would never
>>151362097Why don't villains ever kill off their hostages?
>>151362097He's a tsundere
>>151361027You'd be surprised. A lot of reactions I've seen to these episodes are "wow sorry I doubted you Alastor"
>>151361027people on 4chan care way too much about "jobbing" and think if somebody "jobs" once they're ruined forever
>>151361235>Alastor would have died if not for EmilyWhat if this becomes a trend...?
>>151362097Partial psycho-sexual, mostly pride.Vox wasn't seeking power for power's sake. He was insecure and wanted to force his enemies to all watch him from on high.
>>151356027>Admit it /co/, Alastor fooled you all You need to be complete retard (and maker/watcher of those YT vids) to not foresee that the actual demon will easily outplay smug wannabe.
I just don’t fucking understand the logic of contracts at all.>in 50% of cases, contracts are metaphysical magic that prevent/force you from acting in a specific way, no matter what you choose to do. Strangle a friend, don’t leave a chair, say Vox is powerful, you are bound by the laws of the universe and your will means nothing>in the OTHER 50% of cases, the terms of the contract don’t mean shit. Do whatever you want. If you break the terms, of your own volition, then the binding of the contract is null and void, but nothing binds you specifically.It’s kinda retarded. Shouldn’t the deal have magically prevented Vox from touching Charlie? Why is it that when a handshake combines>I won’t touch Charlie>You won’t leave a chairOne of those things is a choice with consequences, and the other is an inescapable fact of existence?
>>151362097Because unlike other Overlords, Vox actually harbors feelings for Alastor which makes him susceptible to being manipulated and used to help Alastor reach whatever goals he has.
>>151356027I can accept the technicality of Vox touching charlie as laying his hands on her. However that strongest thing was bullshit. He forced charlie to say it, she didn't even believe it, and then he proved that even injured and with a busted staff he was still stronger the Vox. What exactly was stopping him from having charlie say it sooner. The public already thought Vox beat and captured him.
Also why the fuck did Alastor agree to be Vox’s prisoner to start with, if he was just gonna rules lawyer his way out? I thought for sure we were setting up>Vox goes to touch Charlie for some nonviolent reason but CAN’T, like shoving past her blocking a doorway or grasping her hand when falling off a roof, which totally fucks him overAnd/or>Alastor being Vox’s prisoner means he can’t do what Rosie commands, which is useful at some key momentBut neither of those things happened. So what was the benefit to Alastor? I mean, what was going through his mind in front of that Susan bench?>oh, that’s clever! I’ve got it! I’ll go sit in the cuck chair in Vox’s bedroom for 2 weeks, on condition that he doesn’t touch Charlie! Sooner or later he’s bound to touch her by mistake, and then I’ll be allowed to leave the cuck chair!Congrats Pannenkoek, you didn’t press A. Your self-imposed challenge is overcome. Nobody cared but you. What was the point of going down to Vox’s at all?
>>151360653>>151360311This has been bothering me for a long time, as near as I can get in headcanon it has to do with exertion of will. The contract enables you to compel someone to do something by wanting it/willing it. So with the Alastor/Vox deal, for example, Vox has the ability to prevent Alastor from leaving by wanting him not to leave. Alastor has the ability to prevent Vox from touching Charlie by wanting him not to touch Charlie. If either of them stop WANTING that, stop exerting that will, the person is free to break the contract, but it dissolves the deal. So we got>Alastor doesn’t actually want Vox not to touch Charlie, Vox touches Charlie, now he can’t compel Alastor to stay in placeBut we could have just as easily gotten>Alastor doesn’t want Vox to touch Charlie, so Vox can’t. Vox allows Alastor to stand up from the chair. Alastor, without thinking, does so; now the contract is void, and Vox can touch CharlieLike the logic of deals is specifically designed to enable you to either compel action OR trap someone into breaking the deal, depending on your mood, on both sides. Which would at least be consistent with the whole Monkey’s Paw Faustian Bargain thing they’re emulating, where trickery and technically-didn’t-cheat-ing are part of the package.
>>151356027this series is so badI was fooled by fan content, that was so much better than the actual product, to watch this slopthe pacing is horrid, the characters uninteresting, charlie is one of the worst characters, it's incredible how one note she is, and I can clearly tell vivzie came up with the plot because it's retardedvivzie can't write for shit, I'm surprised they didn't give the job to somebody else to overhaul it, because I didn't feel anything while watching this other than boredomwinx club has a better story
>>151362774Yeah but what's Alastor's excuse if he hates him so much?
>>151361656I feel like in the past maybe 15 or 20 years, writers have gotten a lot more guarded about not wanting their twist endings spoiled ahead of time, and it’s made writing worse. They just overdo it on the subtlety or misdirection sometimes. Might be a side effect of online fandoms working as think tanks where they make and spread predictions very easily.In the case of this season, I’d only want a few relatively minor changes or additions to make some of the reveals more impactful. But ideally, it’s more fun if i go “ohhhhh. That makes so much sense! How did i not see that??” But instead I kept reacting like “Oh. Uh. I guess that works? I’ll have to rewatch to see if that was set up, I guess…” I think the Angel being hypnotized reveal was okay, at least. That one hit me right. The Vox handsiness I think coulda been handled a little better. And Baxter was just used terribly as a character, complete fail with him in the finale.
>>151362913>What was the point of going down to Vox’s at all?To manipulate him and drive a wedge between Vox and the other Vees. Who indirectly gave Vox the idea to invite Charlie to the big Fuck You Heaven Gala?
>>151362913Alastor wanted to get out of his deal with Rosie. To do that, he needed somebody else to become the official strongest sinner in hell. He needed Vox to become that. In order for Vox to become the strongest sinner in hell, Alastor needed a way to be constantly manipulating Vox that wouldn’t come off as too suspicious. Otherwise, Vox would do shit like work as a team with the Vees and Voxtech to achieve his plan, and no single one of them would become more powerful than Alastor. So he got himself placed into Vox’s proximity by becoming a “prisoner” to make sure that Vox made exactly all the correct moves to become the strongest sinner in hell.
>>151363271>To manipulate him and drive a wedge between Vox and the other VeesBut why did he need to do that? I mean, for funsies, sure, but how did it factor into his master plan?What Alastor needed was for everyone to think Vox was the most powerful sinner in Hell, so that he could be free of Rosie's contract. The only thing he called in to make that happen was forcing Charlie to admit it. He didn't need anything else. He basically had to stand by and allow Vox to continue winning. Driving a wedge between him and the other Vees accomplished nothing. I mean, it was relevant to the overall plot, but not to Alastor's scheme.
Only thing Im actually confused about is Alastor's deal with Rosie was broken when his staff got fucked up. Her refusal to fix his staff should be grounds for breaking the contract. In his 1v1 against Vox, before the other Vees showed up, he was 'even' with him at best but still was on the backfoot most of it
>>151363380On the other hand, Alastor quitting the hotel against her wishes should be grounds for her refusing to further empower him. Just don't think too hard about the way contracts work, because it doesn't make any fucking sense. Sometimes you don't have a choice, sometimes you have a choice and it breaks the contract, it depends on what fits Viv's keikaku.
>>151363336>What Alastor needed was for everyone to think Vox was the most powerful sinner in HellYes, and "defeating" the guy who already had that title definitely helped. Alastor knew Vox well enough to know that A: Vox wouldn't just throw him in a cell and forget him, he'd keep Alastor close so he can rub his victory in constantly, B: Vox would eventually void their deal so the imprisonment was effectively always temporary, and C: Vox would never turn down any opportunity to boost his ego. The best kind of plan is the kind of plan that depends on people doing what they would naturally do in a given situation. Engineer the right situation, and you can get them to do anything you want.
