AND NO ONE HERE'S ADDICTED TO CRACK
>>151646682I wonder Adam is secretly creeped out by Heaven.
>>151646798He had nothing but good things to say about Heaven.
>>151646682>addictedKey word. They can still use it but they won't become addicted.
>>151646682Pete strikes me as being akin to a minimum wage employee that is inches away from breaking, Abel looks like he is hiding some serious mental shit (which he is), and Emily is an angel they’re just fucking nuts for some reason.
>>151646870Both Peter and Abel are winners so it makes sense that they are similar. Emily is heaven born which is why she doesn't understand the minds of sinners.
>>151646888Yeah but they all look either psychotic or like they’re on the verge of a mental breakdown. I don’t know if it’s Viv’s art style or if there is more to this.
>>151646682SHE IS SO FUN AND CUTE IN THIS SCENEhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wa4fmcHq--I
>>151646939>no drinking>no clubbing>basically an infantilizing hyper safe daycare for everyoneHeaven seems kind of hellish in the Hellaverse.
I'm addicted to angel pussy.
>>151646951It all depends on what you consider to be Hell. If you don’t drink and just want to rest then it’s fine. If you want to skull fuck people and sort ketamine from some guys foreskin, it’s hellish.
>>151646951It's just Emily thinking all people would be happy with that kind of stuff. Both her and Charlie just go for assumptions without caring to ask people first. Really, why all the "good guys" come off as assholes in this show?
>>151646810In front of Charlie and Lute.
>>151647176> Really, why all the "good guys" come off as assholes in this show?Because they are.Adam is one of the few who are actually good and this will be horrifyingly true as the show goes on. And the people we think are going to be good (Sera and Emily) suddenly turn out fallen and corrupted. And I say this being surprised about that reality of their futures.There is a reason why Lute only had hope and joy under him when the rest of Heaven would be too horrified of her… just as… Heaven feared Eve… The reason why Abel got into Heaven is because he listened and obeyed Adam. And Lute being Abel’s partner is a reflection of this reality. While Eve and Cain (Zestial, I fallen from God, to Morde my brother) ultimately disobeyed and casted themselves to Hell. But at least, they started in the state of sin when they made these paths. To make their choices between good and evil. God or Roo. In minds that are corrupted.
>>151646810I know he's probably thinking of other shit than what Emily showed of Heaven, but the idea of Adam going around and being all like "FUCK YEAH SCENTED CANDLES RULE!" and cannonballing into the ballpit with Lute just sounds so wholesome and silly.
>>151646682What did Vox even accomplish by hypnotizing Angel Dust?>learned when the angels were going to attackAll of hell knew this 6 months in advance.>learned that Lucifer can't hurt himVox didn't care in the first place. He was already messing with Charlie at that point.>got Angel to endorse the invasion of heavenVal could have made him do this anyway.
>>151646951>>no drinking>>no clubbingWhat's good about that anyway?
>>151646951IRL Heaven 100% has alcohol.
>>151647368>What did Vox even accomplish by hypnotizing Angel Dust?Sleeper agent that gives him a lot more information about Alastor and the events in the hotel to have a foothold over the place.
>>151647368>What did Vox even accomplish by hypnotizing Angel Dust?it was hot
>>151647368I'm 100% convinced they only addded that scene because that one storyboarder with a fetish for Angel getting hypnotized and double teamed by Vox and Val wanted it and they needed a flimsy justification.
>>151647378Wine. The gayest form of alcohol
>>151647524I think it’s because Angel Dust’s hypnosis is supposed to foreshadow the twists going on with Lute (being Roo/Eve’s spy due to infection). So we would prepare for it ahead of time.
I need to chew his hooves like a dog
>>151647628When will him and Cain fight?
>>151647524I wonder what Viv's reaction was when she found out one of the storyboarders fantasizes about her favorite character getting assraped by the villains?
>>151647628So Alastor is a Wendigo with the whole cannibal motive.
>>151647661She probably thinks it’s pretty based of them… at least I hope
>>151647661I'm pretty sure she enjoys it, she hired this same person to do the Poison scene.Angel in season 3 is so fucked in all the possible meanings of the word.
>>151647711HOLY FUCKING BASED
>>151647711Season 3 is Charlie, Lucifer, Angel, and Lute torture porn that everyone would pray for Eve to die by the end of the season, and she will.
>>151647368My guess is he started doing it years ago for some sort of fetish play he and Val wanted to try, probably put holograms of himself over random pornstars like in blade runner while calling him a faggot, but later figured he might as well have Angel spy on people here and there.
>>151647672"Inspired by".Otherwise, even if he was some sort of creole bayou mutt, you would never hear the end of the appropriation shitstorm.
>>151648036Being a North American mythos and being from primeval forces. I can see Roo possessing Alastor with this affliction.
>>151647378Oh hey, someone speaks about Heaven and Hell as if they are a resident! Okay, here's the cool bit my man, Heaven and Hell are actually the same thing. It's formless Quantum Data that takes on the form of where your code lays and general vibe of the other data in the immediate localization. There is no "where" or actual divide. That being said, there are certain areas where there's a bit of a conglomeration of data, both resonant or dissident. When you find a resonat region its very nice, a chime of chimes a chord of chords, that build on top of one another, This is a "Heaven" and it is a shared Data Space whose those with data build upon one another like a weird choral commune of Paradise. And what you desire becomes groovy, as long as it bring harmony. So yes, there is something similar to alchohal, but no drunkedness. What you are drinking is something you think is a liquid, but is just pure choral resonance, and thus the whole "Yeah, you don't get drunk" It tastes like what you want it to taste like. For me, it's nectar mixed with bubble gum caramel. There's also pocket of dissidence that kind of acts like a gravity well of sorts, where the negative vibe builds upon and creates a sour note that persists upon itself. Likewise, that place is subjective and communal in its negativity. Once you get in, its hard to get out because one of the things about a negative data set is that other experiencers of negativity don't want you to leave. And it's nothing to do with morals, karmas or sins, not in the literal sense, but rather the state of mind and of your underlaying quantum observer or your "Data". That's not to say that morals, sins or karmics aren't important or don't matter, they are indeed important and effect your quantum observerm but ultimately whatever you experience, is a result of you personally, and not beset by others. Which is why Heaven and Hell is subjective. That's my Node Talk, next episode we'll be singing with Gabby!
>>151646951>no clubbingDiscothèques were right there
>>151648107Ah, something else I should mention, "The simpler things get, and the louder the choral chime, the closer you are to a "Heaven" When you dive deep into it, subjectivity becomes more of a song, and observation is one of simplism with very strange complexity. Meanwhile, when you reach a negative pocket of Quantum Data, you'll first notice the dissident tone, a note that sounds wrong, followed by loud static, which in a weird way, is a song in and of itself. As you gaze into it, you'll find some pretty crazy complexity, that is ultimately very simplistic. The deeper you descend, the more complex the static gets and the more off key and staticy the music gets. To put it in better terms. "Heaven" is like a million birds singing in one unified tone, "Hell" is like a million birds singing offkey at their own pace. And again, no one really says "You earn Heaven/Hell, no one really oversees either and says "You go there now." It's all subjective on You, the quantum observer and where your code attracts you to. If you seek simplicity, that comes with nuance, you gravitate towards "Heaven" if you seek complexity that is ultimately simple, then you gravitate towards "Hell" >Is there a True Heaven/Hell? Kind of, there's a particular region of Quantum Space that is very close to the Emanation, where the song originates. it's simple, but complex, Likewise, there is a particular cluster that is, well, quite complex, but simple. But thinking of them as "Suffering/Pleasure" is all wrong. It's like saying "A rock is heaven, and a hole is hell" or "The open sea and the shoal are different things" They are kind of, but not really, they are the same thing. tl;dr "It's all song, it's all pattern, and where you find yourself in depends on you and your quantum observer's code to where your immediate data hangs out in until its time to become manifest again."
>>151648080It's still a native american legend so that would be a no-no unless they make Alastor part native himself. If they had to spell it out (doubt they will) they would probably default to something like Rougarou folklore, which is basically a werewolf but whatever, you can bend it a little to a furry man-eating creature.
>>151648181Also, shout out to fellow bnuuy encoded quantum observers.
>>151648270Holy shit a fellow Porunchad in the Hazbin thread?!
>>151646897Anon, they look like hey're on the verge of a mental breakdown because that's the joke. 'No one's addicted to crack', say three vanilla-generic-good individuals while looking like bigger crack addicts than the actual crack addict the show has, who are unnaturally chipper and jolly because Heaven's like that one Steven Universe zoo, in terms of keeping people in artificial bliss, only with less hot characters and no chance of Priyanka Maheswaran in a skimpy tribal outfit.
>>151647716>this exact scene happens in S3 but with ipad Vox shoved up Valentino's ass
If Angel Dust was a chick is 110% be drawing weird shit for her.
>>151648473He's got a sister, you know...
>>151648459I NEED THIS. THE BRAIN IN YOUR HEAD, ANON!
>>151648487She’s in heaven and not a slut with giant pseudotitties
>>151648495Yeah, she has actual titties.
>>151647009You need to have something to be addicted to it you stupid incel.
Y'know, I've seen a lot of shitty shows inexplicably gain a fanbase, but trashbin hoesmell really takes the cake.
>>151646951for the most part heaven just seems like hell with less violence and a different color scheme. I see no reason why a person couldn’t act out all the 7 deadly sins in that place if they wanted to. Adam and Lute sure did.
Tiny…
gravity is so good, i can't stop listening to it>>151649861after watching the how to draw vox video i freaking love them so god damned much
>>151649999Quads for the Vees being the best!!!
>>151648487He does? Got pic?
>>151650350
>>151650455She’s got no tits but maybe four legs… two vagainas…
>>151650350Molly's made a couple of cameos.
>>151650455>>151650469Gimmie, gimmie, gimmie giMMIE, GIMMIE, GIMMIE HOT SPIDER VAGINA FAT SPIDER ASS JUICY SPIDER PUSSY SINK TEETH IN HER NECK AND HAMEMR AWAY AND IMPREGNATE UNTIL BLOATED THEN PUSH OUT EGG SACK FUCK AGAIN PUMP PUMP PUMP
>>151649861The wiki still insists she is 6 feet tall but that is obviously not true.
>>151647368Having more information is better than having less information, anon. There is basically no downside to having a man on the inside. It's weirder that he showed his hand but I guess he was high off his own hype and jumped the gun. Ironically if he had kept Angel as an undercover agent a bit longer he would've known about Charlie's plan to stream directly to heaven. Something something hubris.
Feel like the bubble wouldn't have been so intrinsically ridicolous and maligned if they used literally any other kind of visual than lazily stand with their arms extended and some sort of ray shooting out.I mean, sure, that's okay for Emily, let others throw some moves tied to their characters, like piling on layers of cards for Husk or countless crawling bugs for Niffty, Alastor's shadows and so on, all whirling up together building up to a hodgepodge chaotic "shield" no less powerful than the tidy Heaven one from a few episodes before, which would have been more thematic to boot.The bubble as a concept is fine, the final crescendo about unity is a classic, it all comes down to the lazy visuals.
>>151650469Her chest seems smaller than Angel's, that's rough Molly.
>>151646682This brings up an interesting question. What natural resources do heaven and hell have? Like in hell they apparently had the resources to eventually develop video/tv and porn and have an active social media landscape as well as a booming drug trade. Are the materials to make crack in heaven? Could you become heaven's one and only crack dealer? I must assume all the stuff in both heaven and hell is made out of other stuff.
>>151651125It's FLUFF
>>151651122People talk about having the power of an "overlord" and I have to ask. Are overlords overlords BECAUSE they're powerful or does someone become powerful once they're recognized as an overlord? Is all strength in Hell just merit based? Like the more people who fear you the stronger you are?
>>151647368
>>151651136That means even Emily is naturally bustier. Charlie too.
>>151646682Setting aside the exterminations, would you rather live in heaven or hell?
>>151651122The point of the “bubble” was to show that heaven’s divine magic is way more powerful than whatever bullshit an individual overlord can conjure up. If Emily hadn’t been injured she probably could have done it all herself.
>>151651154Overlords don’t matter besides Vees, Zestial Morde’d Abel, Carmilla, Alastor, and Rosie/Lilith.
>>151651154I think you have to own souls to be an overlord, though that might have been retconned after s1
>>151651191Heaven, no brainer. That's like asking if you want someone to give you a blow job or clamp your cock in an old timey dryer ringer.
>>151651122Yeah, I don't know why they wasted time and resources on that ridiculous rotating shot instead of highlighting each character's individual power
>>151651329Why can’t heaven just conjure up a new wing for her?
>>151651202Nah the point of the bubble is that Hell can come together to accomplish a common goal for the greater good, just like Heaven can. Not to wank about some POTENTIAL Emily powerlevel.If anything, by established rules it shouldn't have been a danger at all since it was powered by Lucifer who can't harm Sinners, but that's another can of worms entirely.
>>151651339Viv is a moron.
I fucking love these two’s rancid little relationship. If Hazbin had like 50 episode seasons which I would make so if I had the power I’d have it so a whole episode was just a 24 minute sex scene between them.
>>151651380> by Lucifer who can't harm SinnersLucifer can’t harm them, by the energy from him is sucked out of him and used to kill them.
>>151651442based, i hope they are end game if only to piss off radiostatic fujos
>>151647524That storyboarder came out and said they were the one who boarded the scene between Vox and Angel in episode 6 kek. To think Angel is one of the only characters allowed to have gravity to his abuse and pain and have that be his primary storyline because one woman has shlicked to it for years. Vivzie needs to stop being quite so indulgent to her team in deciding what scenes and characters get focus. She's indulgent to herself too but at least she's the creator.
>>151647661She thinks it's great, adds these scenes just for them and then assigns them those scenes. Then she tries to convince the fans that it isn't what she's doing.
>>151651616>>151651636I’d do the same in Vivzie’s shoes. Based.
>>151651597It will be. Alastor has never and will never want Vox like that and at this point Vox is profoundly uninteresting and pathetic to him. There's nothing left there and Vox can only grow by getting over Alastor. That's no doubt where his story is going, especially if they really are planning to "redeem" him.
>>151651482I'm not saying that's not true, but that's a bullshit loophole that could turn the entire premise of Hell on its head (next time some big bad Sinner threatens Charlie, Charlie's friends or the Hotel, just ask Carmilla to make a store-and-release-energy rubber duckie and send Lucifer to slap some sense into them, literally no reason to try anything else).Thing is, I'm really not sure that was intentional and not an oversight.
>>151647327go take your medication
>>151651660Seconded. As long as creative control is firmly yours, let them have their fun and enthusiasm.Also, it's a pretty much open secret that in any kind of animation since animation has been a thing, the animators will inevitably draw on-model porn of the characters.
>>151651707Sera literally created fallen angels. Her ass is getting banned.
>>151651700> just ask Carmilla to make a store-and-release-energy rubber duckie and send Lucifer to slap some sense into them, literally no reason to try anything else).Did you see how it actually worked in the show?Lucifer would be too powerful that Portable items like that would blow up before it’s even used. And it had to go inside of his body to extract his energy.It’s also the kind of weapon Charlie will never approve of, ever.
>>151646682So is Crack the "Goody guys" drug while weed is demonized?
>>151651700>Implying the resources needed are available and easy to get>Implying they'll risk blowing up the city AGAIN >Implying Charlie would even want that>Implying any sinner but Alastor would be a relevant problem Really anon, you're creating a hurricane in a puddle
>>151647364Adam’s and Abel’s strat for heaven is, “don’t think about what you lost and let the place consume your miserable existence.”
Since everyone knows he can’t do shit Lucifer should probably bring in more hellborn to control the sinners in s3. Might be a cool way to do an HB cameo.
>>151651894He’s a DBS fan, please understand.
>>151651902At least Adam confirmed that it is possible to get pussy in heaven.
>>151651660I think it's hilarious personally, especially when they weakly deny it, but at this point the endless torture porn is losing its edge and making Angel Dust boring.
>>151651698Unironically Val x Vox the most interesting relationship in the show right now. Hazbin kinda sucks for relationships otherwise.
>>151651939Knowing him, the angels thrown him to perverted angel women to “solve” the “no Eve” problem. Which didn’t actually work and made him worse.His existence is inherently dehumanizing.
I hope the Vees get a spinoff. They hard carried s3
>>151652002S3 isn’t even out.
>>151651700If the limitation is about intent, they'd have to trick Lucifer every time to use his power that way. Which would be funny actually. But it doesn't matter because Charlie wouldn't agree to it.
>>151651218What if Nifty has overlord powers because she owns the souls of rats and roaches. I dont think it ever specifies you need a HUMAN soul.
>>151652033Nah. She is japanese.She "leveled up" after killing Adam and now Adam will be reborn as one of her roaches and become their lead singer.
>>151652020Eww…Why did Lucifer mess up his own body?
>>151652020>gets humiliated by gay tv
>>151652098At least Lucifer still has his body.
>>151651700>Main character is a bleeding heart pacifist who abhors violence and only fights when it is absolutely necessary.>Creating a satan powered gunAre we even watching the same show? Its not about Charlie trying to gain power using force. Her literal primary goal is to make sure nobody else has to die.
>>151652060Adam is walking around in hell for some reason. Kinda like Eve being in Heaven.
>>151651979Im still here for Pentious and Cherry Bomb. I like enemies to lovers (or even better, enemies who are also lovers).
>>151652120
>>151651894Exactly on the last point. Alastor is probably going to be the only "normal" sinner major threat from this point forward. And I'd be surprised if a higher power wasn't part of the threat he poses, whether that's Roo power or something else. And him as a particularly entrenched and difficult obstacle that Charlie or Lucifer can't and/or won't want to just beat into submission is being set up. There isn't going to be another Vox "why don't they just explore x y or z loophole so Lucifer can kill him" situation.
>>151652098No bully
The solution to the Lucifer problem is fairly easy. If Lucifer can’t control sinners then he should just create more hellborn to control them for him. It’s not like he has a lot on his plate at the moment.
>>151652218Is that snake alive?
>>151652229The current hellborn are managed by sins and Satan. And are currently causing piles and piles of drama on their own, across seven different rings.The Exorcist were also a “solution” race but they’re an entire problem in itself.It’s either he makes what he already has or set everything on fire.
>>151652245Yes… and that Apple is one of those apples from the garden.He’s messing with creepy stuff.
>>151652229He doesn't seem interested in controlling anyone. Everyone thinks endgame is him finally becoming a real king and getting iron hold on his kingdom but I wouldn't be surprised if it's actually him stepping down and devoting his time to creating again to make Hell better for human souls and hellborn. He'd probably be happier that way and it's more on theme.
>>151652193> Alastor is probably going to be the only "normal" sinner major threat from this point forward.Nope. Zestial going to set everything on fire in season 3.
>>151652245Apparently
>>151652373Future head Exorcist material.
>>151652276Lucifer is also supposed to be managing them but isn’t because he’s depressed. >>151652311Lucifer’s only real contribution to hell currently is protecting it from a full on invasion. I don’t see him doing jack shit for anyone unless he has an army of his own.
>>151651839>Did you see how it actually worked in the show? Lucifer would be too powerful that Portable items like that would blow up before it’s even used. And it had to go inside of his body to extract his energy.There's nothing specific in the show that goes into the technicality of the doomsday cannon. I don't see why that can't be downscaled to a single probe and a slight tickle, and why Lucifer can't just discharge a flick-of-the-wrist amount of energy on purpose instead of the nuke amount that was being forcefully sucked out of him. He's not THAT MUCH of an idiot, pretty sure he can self-regulate his own moves.>It’s also the kind of weapon Charlie will never approve of, ever.Charlie has literally NO QUALMS about the violent death and dismemberment of an aggressor to her friends, the Hotel, and the well-being of Hell in general. That aggressor being an internal one instead of an heavenly army should make no difference. Sure, you try to reason and redeem the baddie, but if that doesn't work, off with their head. Unless Charlie is a filthy hypocrite but that's another matter.>>151651894Let's say for example that it IS Alastor (who I don't think would ever want to be redeemed) turning face for a "That was cute and all, now I rule".Unless they SPECIFICALLY make a point to address it, having them running around with their heads in their hand going "Oh no he's too powerful what should we do?" when they have Lucifer-with-a-gun on call would be stupid.And I mean, Alastor killing Carmilla in advance on the offchance she could actually make the gun would be enough. I'm just saying that they (probably not intentionally) made a weird plot point that they now should have to dance around.As somebody said in the last thread, it's a Holdo Maneuver (aka "If they could, why don't they?").I don't care about power-levels, they have never established anything about them so you can factor in skills, age, experience, whatever. But this? THIS they HAVE established
>>151652415> Lucifer’s only real contribution to hell currently is protecting it from a full on invasion.It would suck if Sera made an entire race of angels that were counted as Sinners.But we all know she wouldn’t make that kind of unstable product and seriously make it the main army of Heaven… They would end up with demon fangs and red eyes, just like the Sinners of Hell…But thankfully, such a disastrous creation didn’t make it to the first stages of production and didn’t almost become the leader of said unstable demonic angel army.I really hate Sera…
>>151652513>Charlie has literally NO QUALMS about the violent death and dismemberment of an aggressor to her friends, the Hotel, and the well-being of Hell in generalThe entire first episode of season 2 shows her being fucked up about having to resort to that last season. She has a lot of qualms.
>>151652513Lucifer regulating and directing his power to be used indirectly knowing it will harm a sinner may well trigger his limitation. But then again I think people are being needlessly pedantic about this cosmic punishment with a clear message and theme.
>>151652513If you really think Charlie would think of permakilling Alastor, or any sinner really, BEFORE trying literally every single alternative, you clearly didn't watch a single episode of this show. And you didn't address the other 3 "implying", especially the resources one. Also, we saw a weakened Alastor avoiding the death ray multiple times with a giant shark on his tail, what makes you believe a literal shadow would just stand there waiting to get annihilated?
>>151652513>>151652663Charlie's plan to stop the Vs didn't even include killing Vox. I dont know where anon is getting this bloodthirsty Charlie headcanon from.Her whole thing is that she believes everyone can be redeemed. Even a scumbag like Vox.
>>151652769Vox is too epic to die
>>151652769I wonder if Lute’s current state would drive Charlie crazy.
You know what’s odd. Why didn’t they banish us to Trash yet?
>>151652581Her issues in S2E1 are that a lot of her people died–understandable, one would not want their side to suffer great losses–and that Sinners are flocking to the Hotel for the wrong reason (escalating violence instead of wishing for redemption).She doesn't give much of a shit about the aggressors, the angels–or Adam–being slaughtered on her doorstep. She tried to avoid it, she doesn't want to repeat it, but once it was inevitable, welp they're fucking goners. She will cry later and feel like shit but I don't think she would trade the entire Hell for non-violence, not even if the threat was Alastor.>>151652663I'm not saying that it would work. Of course it wouldn't because that doesn't make for good storytelling.My gripe is that it's two plot points that at the moment contradict each other and that I'm not sure it was intentional.Like >>151652647 said, let's say they make the LuciferGun and when he goes to fire it, it doesn't, because L's limitations work on intent. That could be a cool story beat to get into, because what if his intent is to save Hell as a whole from a single Sinner, shouldn't that count for something? That's something interesting to expand on, built on the established working of the FuckOffCannon+Lucifer Limitation that came from S2 finale. But if they don't bring it back into the narrative, then "Wait, why don't they do what has already been shown to be possible and viable?" is an entirely fair question. Again, the Holdo Maneuver.I'm not advocating for "i'M SO CLEVer i SoLVEd all HelL's ProBlEms witH tHIs LoopHOlE", I'm just saying that at the moment it is a loose plot point and not adressing it (which might happen or not) creates a hitch in the internal consistency of what has been established.
>>151652835She would try for talk to her from her heart, then sincerely cry for her enemies and her own actions and choices that brought to Lute being irreparably broken, then tearfully offer some sort of atonement, then desperately beg for another way right until the moment Lute disembowels Vaggie in front of her.Then all bets are off.
>>151652962It’s Vaggi, not Vaggie.
>>151652988It's Vagatha
>>151652988That's the name Adam gave her, and that the name she will still carry when I massacre the cunt.
vagina
>>151652962It would be way worse than that.Lute would be impacted by Eve’s/Lilith’s singing to look like an absolutely deranged, crying, monster. So Charlie would experience this knowing her mother wanted this outcome wanted to happen.
>>151652882>two plot points that at the moment contradict each otherNo, anon, the fact that Lucifer's power can be harnessed through a weapon doesn't contradict the fact that he can't harm sinners. Him voluntarily using that weapon would, which is ironic since it's essentially what you want to happen
Sera should have just vaporized Vox and the Vees at the rally in her dragon form. Had she not been going through such guilt over shit she could have stopped the whole uprising right there, sure people say that would make Vox a martyr but none of those other cowardly Overlords would do anything with it.
>>151653281> she could have stopped the whole uprising right there, Lilith is still there, so no.
>>151653382The thing is without him there would be no one to take up his cause even with him as a martyr. All the other Overlords had to be sweet talked and coerced into siding with him and his plan, without him it would all fall apart and they’d just go back to their own lanes and forget the whole rise up against heaven thing.
>>151653281Can angels kill sinners without permakilling them?
>>151653144Again, from last thread: give him the gun and make somebody else pull the trigger, give him a blindfold if you need so, and now the GigaSinnerSeasonBaddie is no more and Hell is saved.The plot point is there and if they don't solve it in-universe. all threats from now on should be basically meaningless.But I guess that's a problem intrisic to having Lucifer as an active character with stakes in the game (even if it's just Charlie's wellbeing). Sure when Eve (or Lilith) shows up he will kowtow to her, but anything else he should be able to annihilate if he wanted to.
>>151653497> The thing is without him there would be no one to take up his cause even with him as a martyr.Lilith.
>>151653497This was after he had all the overlords on his side though. And him getting murdered by an emissary of heaven would probably prompt the other Vs to step up in his place and finish his plan. If anything it would've strengthened hellos resolve because they would never be made aware that Vox was an opportunistic grifter who didn't actually give a fuck about them.
>>151653531>give him a blindfold if you need soYou really don't know how voluntariness works, do you?
>>151653531I’d imagine Lucifer’s punishment is enforced by the angels themselves so they take any infractions on a case by case basis. If he is being forced into helping sinners attack heaven or other sinners then they can let that slide. If he harms sinners of his own volition then they will descend upon him and tear him apart.
>>151653531>Sure when Eve (or Lilith) shows up he will kowtow to her, but anything else he should be able to annihilate if he wanted to.I really hope in season 3, Adam shows up just to slap her and kill her when she tries the, “I can change, Adam. We will be back together-“. Ending her stupid love manipulations with a hardcore rejection.
>>151653540Lilith doesn’t give a fuck about Hell, she’s living it up in Heaven and content to ignore her midget husband and clown daughter.
>>151653569You're giving way too much credit to heaven. They don't even know how their own rules work, they're not enforcing shit, Lucifer's punishment is no different from the ironic forms sinners take when they spawn into hell
>>151653569>If he is being forced into helping sinners attack heaven or other sinners then they can let that slide.By this reasoning, they could have just shut him down because Emily was in danger. Or shut down the cannon entirely, which they didn't and they couldn't.Again, I don't want anything specific to happen like >>151653144 said, it's just that the cannon at the moment is a glaring plothole and created more problems that a "BIG THREAT FOR THE SEASON FINALE" was worth.
>>151653556Val would be going on full on Lute if Vox died.
>>151653531Thats the weird thing about this argument. You argue that there's no stakes because they can harness lucifer's power but we only JUST this season learned Lucifer can't hurt sinners. By your very own logic there were already no stakes going into this season because we already assumed the hazbin gang had lucifer on their side. So all this does is put them in exactly the same position narratively as the end of season 1. And even then Lucifer was only strong enough to beat up Adam. Lord knows how much stronger a serephim is. Or even an unrestrained Allastor. And its not like allastor will just stand and wait for them to fire a lucifer powered gun at him. You're putting way to much merit in Lucifer as an asset.
>>151653129For the life of me, I can never understand if people say shit like this with any amount of plot backing, or if it's all bullshit fanfiction of the Roo sort
>Hell is full of faggots and degenerates>Hitler and the rest of the crew are nowhere to be seenThis pseudo-p0ny copy with some swear inbetween is secretely based
>>151653597That’s not, Lilith. That’s Adam’s literal clown wife, Eve. Who’s doing all of this to set Heaven and Hell on fire.Lilith isn’t a clown woman. Eve is. Hence the nose.
>>151653665That got retconned in s2. Both Alastor and Vox were confirmed murderous psychopaths who definitely belong there. Also heaven has gays in it now.
>>151653569I feel like it’s not a restriction enforced by angels threats, but an actual magical restriction like he can’t hurt a Sinner no matter what. He didn’t restrain himself from hitting Vox, it was physically unable to connect the punch due to magical restraint.
>>151653632>glaring plotholeAgain, no. No, because a battery is not the same as a weapon and no because there are a thousand reasons the same weapon will not be built again and you're not addressing ANY of them, just repeating your blabbering. You sound like the typical retard who says "why murica doesn't nuke terrorists?"
>>151653635>Vox is killed by a seraphim during his big speech>Val now realizes if he had been on stage with Vox he would have died too.>Val assumes Vox knew he was in danger and told him not to go out to protect him and not cuz he's a selfish prick who wanted all the glory
>>151653665There’s no misunderstood people in hell due to minor shit, everyone there is rightfully there due to their damning sins. Every Sinner we’ve ever seen has been a terrible person in some way, even the ones in HB like Mrs Mayberry still committed a horrible sin to get damned.
>>151653655Gravity shows Roo eyes being behind Lute’s back when she’s doing the demon fangs thing. Because she is infected, and her own VA refers to Lute as a “Demonic Angel” since season 1.Plus, every exorcist has these pitch black halos meant to look like eyes. And they resemble Eve’s/Roo’s and Demon Charlie’s eyes. Implying that she can see through from Lute and other Exorcists.
>>151651976I feel so bad for him but like in an existential meta way, I'll have to make peace with the fact that the "plot" of this show is just an excuse to string together a bunch of scenes the creators found cool or arousing.
>>151653744>being a degenerate faggot>minor shit
>>151653744> Mrs Mayberry still committed a horrible sin to get damned.And she refused to repent.
>>151652524do you just ignore pigeons in your delusions
>>151651976>>151653783Angel Dust and Lute torture porn for season 3.Yay.Agents of Roo.
>>151651976I mean it was kind of cool to see Angel at least attempt to pull his gun out when Vox started slapping him around. That was a massive improvement from the usual shit.
>>151647009Don't do it, anon. You will create nephilim.
>>151653639>So all this does is put them in exactly the same position narratively as the end of season 1That's my point.At the end of S1, Lucifer decided to get involved in Charlie's bullshit instead of just languishing among his duckies.That created the issue:> Wait, if he actually came over to beat the shit out of Adam and has the power to do so, why doesn't he forces Vox (a way weaker adversary) to back down? and they SPECIFICALLY addressed it on screen as a plot point: he won't because he can't.So if they don't address this it's-not-him-it's-his-redirected-energy bullshit in-universe, JUST LIKE THEY DID BY OPENLY STATING THAT HE CAN'HURT SINNERS, it will remain a hanging plot point, and one that could solve half of any plot problem on its own.>Lord knows how much stronger a serephim isSeraphims are not in hell. Also if they were so much stronger why the hell didn't they just come down and slap the cannon to pieces. Lucifer is a Seraphim so he's at least on-par with them.>Or even an unrestrained AllastorIt would make no sense for him to be stronger than Lucifer. Sure, they can make him scheme hard enough that he gains such power, but assuming that by default Alastor is stronger than the motherfucking king of Hell is bullshit. Even by his own wording and clever wordplay, he bargained for being the strongest SINNER in Hell.>And its not like allastor will just stand and wait for them to fire a lucifer powered gun at himFair, but whatever he would do to avoid it would be addressing the plot point in-universe. My problem would be with Alastor rampaging and all the other characters suddenly forgetting that they just witnessed Lucifer powering a weapon that could deal with the threat. I would be okay even with them bringing that up and discarding the idea because of collateral damage.Again, it's not that I want Luficer-with-a-gun to solve the plot. I just think that until addressed that's a plot point that risks to undermine most other plots.
>>151652988pretty sure it's Vagatha >>151653022
>>151653802They’re not delusions.The Exorcists having any demonic traits or any sinner traits (red eyes) at all is a massive red flag. And there’s no normal way for this to even occur as they’re basically clone troopers that only Sera and Adam knew the origins of.The only way for them to be infected by Roo up in heaven is for them to be literally made that way. Which is stupidly messed up.
>>151653701>there are a thousand reasons the same weapon will not be built again and you're not addressing ANY of themThose being? I addressed most "Well actually no" before ("It's too strong!"-"Well no reason why it can't be downscaled"/"Charlie wouldn't accept it"-"It might happen without her knowledge or the situation could be dire enough for her to at least consider it") and I'm sure you will just repeat them, but maybe I missed something.And again, nothing is conclusive, I can't say for sure it CAN be done, and you can't say for sure it CAN'T. "Charlie wouldn't accept it"/"Carmilla wouldn't do it again" is just as speculative as "Well, if a Sinner actually threatened Hell as a whole they might compromise their principles".What I'm arguing about is that, with the plot points currently established, it's a thing that MIGHT happen.>No, because a battery is not the same as a weaponThat's very clever actually. Just store it for somebody else to use it and cut Lucifer entirely from the intentionality of hurting a Sinner.Thank you for yet another plot issue created by the fucking cannon.
I have to ask, why do people think using Lucifer as a power source is convenient when Alastor and a shark ran away from the mega death laser and the result killed a bunch of other people brutally?
>>151653972>we are totally not br0nys
>>151653767"Roo eyes" and "Roo infected" are entirely fanfiction drivel, the scratches looking like eyes are a neat visual and might foreshadow something but all such implications are wild speculations at best.And people like you taking it as actual established lore means that they will probably avoid anything remotely similar on purpose, both to avoid being predictable and to legally keep clear of any issue with attribution of ideas.
>>151653818Fucking shit, IT actually makes sense.
>>151653945>but maybe I missed somethingAre there enough resources to build again the weapon? Will everyone agree to risk everyone's lives again, including Lucifer himself risking Charlie's life? (We all know the answer to that one)Since the discrimination is the voluntariness of the attack, as shown against Vox in Ep5, why should it work if Lucifer is volunteering? Since there's a limited amount of shots and massive side damage both from the shots themselves and the weapon when it blows up, you're GREATLY overestimating how much people would be willing to compromise. Again, if there's a terrorist nest in a city, do you think they'll go for the swat or a nuke? Lucifer created the Goetia, what would be safer, having him create a bunch of soldiers to fight the threat (namely Alastor, because it's the only relevant sinner threat at this point) or risk the entire ring to try and nuke him probably failing?>Just store it for somebody else to use itYeah, Vox needed to connect his wires multiple times to Lucifer himself for shits and giggles
>>151653978Because that one anon is REALLY autistic
So that's how things are going to be, right?>Lilith is the villain of season three, and Alastor starts acting like a villain behind everyone's back, doing things to gain power.>Lute is the villain of season four, and Alastor continues to gain power.>Roo is the villain of season five, with Alastor as her henchman, or Alastor somehow steals Roo's power to become the final villain.
>>151654224Pretty sure Roo is out. Vivzie probably regrets that sketch she did.
>>151653978Not talking about convenience. The issue is that by established plot points, it is now possible to use Lucifer's energy (whatever that means) to hurt Sinners.Which might potentially make any future villain entirely moot if they come from Hell.The form on which it might happen is irrelevant, the point is that BY ESTABLISHED RULES of this specific narrative universe, it is now a thing that might happen. It doesn't need to be Lucifer going around with a gun shooting Sinners, it could even by something like Lucifer going "Carmilla, build me a bomb and I will detonate myself along with the bad guy for Charlie's sake" or any other kind of narrative development. The point is not to solve the plot before it happens because Lucifer-Can-Now-Have-A-Gun, the point is that there is now an established element that can't be ignored in the solving of any plot, and if it is ignored and not addressed (like for example Lucifer being OPENLY STATED as not physically able of hurting Vox), it's just a plot hole and not a minor one at that.As it was said above, it's like the Holdo Maneuver from Star Wars. As soon as it was thoughtlessly introduces as a Rule-Of-Cool last-minute powerup, it raised up all kinds of narrative issues, mostly "If they can do something so effective, why don't they always do it" and they had to walk it back as a "one in a million chance" (which makes no sense in the previous movie since Holdo woulnd't bet the survival of the fleeing ships on a stroke of luck, but whatever) in the following movie.
>>151654017Dude, I am literally one of the few people paying attention to these particular design choices. And using them to my advantage.I have the high-iq to figure this crap out on my own and realize my own errors. The average viewer doesn’t know any of this, put in the research to notice the strange patterns in the first place, or communicate with other theorists to figure out the foreshadowing and lore details. And you’re simply one of those midwit audiences that cares about things being too “predictable”. Like the total Rick and Morty writer you are. Who takes the set up of season 2’s dramatic finale and wastes it on being a pretentious depressed prick.Why not simply have Lute be the tool Eve/Roo uses in season 3 for Eve’s master plan, showcase the unexpected twists in full. And then, move on to the next storyline (season 4) with Sera paying the consequences for creating Exorcists. I’m glad stupid people like Vivziepop exist. Because midwits like you have always made the most dragged out, non-directional, bullshit mystery lores in existences instead of telling an actual story with characters we are supposed to like. Even a mad man like Scott Cawthon who traps his own butt about lore, wants to make storylines he actually likes. You are so focused on your dumb subversions that you would write the Last Jedi from start to finish, thinking it would be the most brilliant thing ever.
>>151654039I hate being a nephilim.
>>151653823>Alastor rampagingWas it even implied anywhere that Alastor ever went on a random rampage? Seems ooc. Kek, with you're idea Charlie would kill more people than Alastor ever would have and now I want it to happen because I hate that bitch
>>151653823>So if they don't address this it's-not-him-it's-his-redirected-energy bullshit in-universe, JUST LIKE THEY DID BY OPENLY STATING THAT HE CAN'HURT SINNERS, it will remain a hanging plot point, and one that could solve half of any plot problem on its own.Charlie wouldnt want to build another gun and I'm sure Carmilla wouldnt either after how badly the last one backfired. Easy.>Also if they were so much stronger why the hell didn't they just come down and slap the cannon to pieces.They're trying to prevent a war. The Canon was apparently indestructible by normal means which is why lucifer or Vaggi couldn't break it. The serafim would have to kill the guy controlling the Canon. Namely vox. Which would basically be a retaliation of war. Which is what they're trying to avoid.>Again, it's not that I want Luficer-with-a-gun to solve the plot. I just think that until addressed that's a plot point that risks to undermine most other plots.Again thats not a plot issue for several in-character reasons>Charlie doesn't like violence and will avoid it at all costs>Charlie doesn't like overreliance on her father and tends to try to do things on her own unless absolutely necessary.>Carmilla is a necessary component of this plan and would be hesitant to repeat this incident for a multitude of reasons>Allastor knows about the weapon and is more likely to either prevent it from being remade or try to harness it for himself.>Lucifer would probably outright refuse to participate in such a thing for anyone but Charlie and Charlie is literally the least likely to want this.>Lucifer would be pretty hard for anyone to capture other than Charlie unless they trick him in the exact same way cuz he's a dumb ass.> the collateral damage issue> the fact that allastor or whatever villain wouldn't just dodge it and punch whoever is holding the gun.
>>151654184>Are there enough resources to build again the weapon? >Will everyone agree to risk everyone's lives again, including Lucifer himself risking Charlie's life? (We all know the answer to that one)>Since there's a limited amount of shots and massive side damage both from the shots themselves and the weapon when it blows up, you're GREATLY overestimating how much people would be willing to compromise. Again, if there's a terrorist nest in a city, do you think they'll go for the swat or a nuke? Lucifer created the Goetia, what would be safer, having him create a bunch of soldiers to fight the threat (namely Alastor, because it's the only relevant sinner threat at this point) or risk the entire ring to try and nuke him probably failing?Again, NOTHING at the moment is indicative of a downscaled weapon being unviable. It doesn't need to be a nuke, it can be a holy gun, or a bit of an overdesigned rifle whatever, or a magic wand, or literally anything as long as it is a conduit. It can be a rubber duck that quacks out lasers.If they went>"Sorry Luci, your power is so overwhelming that it is either entirely OFF or entirely ON, even if you give it the tiniest amount the tool with siphon the rest out of you and discharge it in its entirety"THAT would be addressing the plot point in-universe and entirely fine by me.It's a writer-room issue that I'm arguing about, not that "Well I've solved Hazbin Hotel how cool am I!!11!">Yeah, Vox needed to connect his wires multiple times to Lucifer himself for shits and gigglesAgain, what happened exactly is inconsequential. All we know is that Lucifer's powers can be harnessed and that Carmilla can make weapons that do so.That is enough to create in-universe coherency issues, that's all I'm saying.
The thing about Adamfag is that he's so autistic about finding clues that one of his guesses is probably going to be right, but because he's only looking fuel his theory that Adam and Lute are the real heroes and Sera is the villain, he gets more obnoxious over time. I can't tell if he's just trolling at this point or if he really believes Viv is pulling a Da Vinci Code on us just for the sake of saying Adam was right all along when she could've handled him in much, much, much, much less convoluted fashion than what Adamfag is suggesting. We only have 16 episodes of this show left.
>achieving his goals and gets away with everything
>>151654224>>151654237There’s a lot problems I have with these predictions.Lute being the season 4 villain doesn’t really make sense when a lot of her themes and parallels (Eve, Cain/Zestial, Lucifer) are in season 3. And she’s the only heaven character to reflect the villain’s themes in 3. Vox in season 2 served this purpose of being Sera’s interaction with Hell.And by season 4, hallucination Adam would be played out since he is supposed to be Lute’s fake Lilith, and Vaggi would be played out because she’s Lute’s Abel. And Lute would barley have the character development she needs by the end of season 5 to be a reformed person. When Vox at least needs three seasons to deal with his Alastor madness and his humbling from season 2.And if Eve/Liltih is defeated on season 3, it actually would drain out Lute’s motivations by the fact the sinners are objectively far less dangerous now.
>>151654403It’s funny how meta this is. The character basically convinced the entire fandom that Vox is weak because he has friends, which is complete retardation but everyone believes it now.
>>151654335> for several in-character reasonsAll of these are entirely fair points. But if they escalate any plot to "A Sinner–most likely Alastor–is threatening Hell as a whole" then the point is relevant again and without bringing them up and or solving them in-universe (for example by Alastor killing Carmilla to take out the only person who could actually build a weapon against him), it's just a hanging plot-point that would just create the question "Wait why don't they even consider it, if something worse is at stake?"Ok sure everybody has reason not to want to do it. But if they don't it's game over. If they go "NO IT'S TOO RISKY" or whatever else, fine by me, the plot point is addressed. It's "They just kind of forgot" that doesn't work.
>>151654391>We only have 16 episodes of this show left.i thought vivzie said she wanted five seasons?
>>151654458She does but there's been no confirmation of a fifth season yet so for now I'm treated four as the last season.
>>151653791That’s the worst part. She would be the perfect ideal patient for the Hotel, a genuinely good person who was sent to hell for one major sin. But instead of seeking redemption, she doubled down on the sin like so many do in Hell, and entered a presumably abusive relationship with the woman who ruined her life. It’s just sad.
>>151654440Alastor is also gaining friends inadvertently, and his reputation will be on the line next season when Vox reveals video footage of Alastor being rescued by Emily during Vox's crash out. A hypocrite indeed!
>>151646951this is another thing that could be a fun huge lore for the show if explored right.the implication everyone is brainwashed to be happy 24 hours, the toxic toxic positivity wher e you dined to even process the bad things that happened to you in life, the existencial horror that you cant die! (they made that into a joke with pentious)but knowing this show, none of it will ever be explored so whatever
>>151654246>>151654383Do you know what else can hurt sinners? Literally any amount of angelic steel. Why would they even bother going through the effort of creating and harassing the power of luckier himself when theres both easier to use and safer options to protect themselves? Hazbin Hotel isn't just a show about beating up and killing people. Charlie actively avoids it if she can. Its like asking why batman doesn't use a gun to solve all his problems. Its ignoring character and storytelling because the easy option is always "kill everyone who poses a threat or disagrees with you." Hell, they were fully ready to spare Adam. The only reason he died was because nifty was given the very simple one-dimmensional order "if you see an angel, stab it"A lucifer powered weapon only makes sense in the context of large scale destruction like a large bomb or a heaven gun which Charlie would never build because it would go against her entire belief.What is the actual difference between a lucifer powered gun and like...a gun with bullets made of angelic steel? The thing that sucks about lucifer being unable to fight sinners isnt a "power" issue. Its that someone with his speed, agility and strength can't physically fight off a threat. I would rather have goku fighting along side me than a gun that just fires kamehamehas.
>>151653569I'd imagine the opposite. I don't think the angels control this Lucifer limit any more than they control who gets into Heaven and why. Lucifer was obviously physically unable to punch Vox, like invisible chains.I also think people hoping the limit will be lifted at some point aren't seeing the bigger picture. Lucifer is going to have to reframe his punishment and his own actions to come to terms with them and regain his love for humanity. He isn't going to be rewarded with being able to hurt sinners if he's enough of a good boy. That isn't the theme of this show.
>>151654391>but because he's only looking fuel his theory that Adam and Lute are the real heroes and Sera is the villain, I don’t want Sera to be the villain. But I do feel betrayed by how Lute and the Exorcists ended up because of her. And despise how much it makes sense for her to create Lute as a forsaken abomination.Lute is still naturally evil, and Adam still left her in the dark to end up trapped in hopelessness and madness. And he still used Lute and the Exorcists to try to get Eve back, even when Eve doesn’t love him back and is willing to destroy Heaven no matter what he does to cater to her. Those are legitimately really awful qualities the three have. > Adam was right all along when she could've handled him in much, much, much, much less convoluted fashion than what Adamfag is suggesting.Adam is annoyingly a mystery box character that I expect season 4 (revelation - aka lore dump) to be when they actually explore what he did. At least just for one episode. Especially just for Lute to be heavily conflicted about him. Since hardly anything for him and Lute would be sun shine and rainbows. For Lute, her entire life and existence is a pathetic joke that only happened because Adam wanted Eve. And for Adam, he got himself in the old Eve situation again, but with a girl he indirectly hurt and betrayed. Nothing about that is going to be clean. Lute will have many reasons to be angry at Adam.
>>151654614Lucifer’s hatred of sinners is one of his defining traits. They are why he is stuck in hell after all. I could see him softening up to those who want redemption though.
>>151653818>Nephilim Clown >shit idea based on surface level looks at the Qumran scrolls, Jewish Midrash, and Josephus>usually with a realistic materialist bent The word giant comes from the Greek Gigantes which means Earth Born not huge, they were weird multi, sometimes animal headed snake legged fucks that revolted against Olympus. In the Qumran and Turfan book of giants they were described as weird chimaera beings, and one of them Humbaba, traditionally had lion claws, bird legs, and a face made of intenstines. So, when they chose to use the word Gigantes for Nephilim they didn't just fucking mean big man.>inb4 Noah's countenance Noah scared the shit out of Lamech because he was born glowing like Moses after getting the Ten Commandments with the light of pre fall Adam.
>>151649861Everyone is tiny to Valentino.>>151651034Charlie is 6'6" and only comes up to around Valentino's waist, Velvette is in the same ballpark.
>>151654683So Valentino is 12 feet tall?
>>151654237Viv said they already recorded some lines for Roo
>>151653818That's with male angels and human women. Human males and angel women will make another hybrid, like how tigers and lions can make both ligers and tigons
I’m confused why people think my Adam, Lute, and Sera stuff paints this picture of Adam being perfect when I basically told you he got so many sinners and angels killed, and could’ve gotten Lute killed, all for Clussy.Lute would be breaking in tears of that reality and be completely blind sighted by this grandiose stunt.
>>151654383>NOTHING at the moment is indicative of a downscaled weapon being unviableThe other way round is true all the same, you know? Actually, the weapon being so intricated heavily implies a smaller version is not possible
>>151654545Imagine if his villain arc in S3 is just him getting mad that he's seen as a hero and the friend of an angel and trying to reassert his infamous reputation. Which incidentally will once again work in Charlie's favour because I fucking love the accidentally helpful trope
>>151654458>>151654472Season 4 is when nearly should feel finished in case season 5 isn’t approved.What I have seen about 4 is that Vivziepop wants to implement her side-content into it, and lore drops, so everything about Lute’s and Eve’s war should be resolved in 3. Lucifer and Sera the characters I suspect to be the main villains of the season. To at least call upon Roo for her power. In case of, Alastor cucking Lucifer, and Sera getting kicked for making Sinner Angels that exploded in season 3.
>>151654857Alastor isn’t the villain of season 3. It’s Zestial, the “braver son”.
>>151654602>Why would they even bother going through the effort of creating and harassing the power of luckier himself when theres both easier to use and safer options to protect themselves?What is the actual difference between a lucifer powered gun and like...a gun with bullets made of angelic steel?I dunno, but Vox didn't aim at Heaven a Gustav Cannon made out of angelic steel, I'm pretty sure a top-tier angel has more oomph than a pointy stick if things really got dire enough to warrant such a measure. And again, I'm not saying that it should be the solve-all solution for every plot, I'm saying that if a FUCKHUGE THREAT NEEDING OVERWHELMING FORCE TO BE REPELLED came knocking it would be very weird for any of them to forget that they have one–now somewhat useable by the established plot points–right there.> Its like asking why batman doesn't use a gun to solve all his problems.Not exactly. Batman won't use guns and Charlie woulnd't either. That doesn't mean that guns don't exist, that Red Hood–while a former pupil and a current ally (somewhat) of Batman–doesn't specifically use them, and all of these are established plot points that create conflict and might come into play during the narrative.The whole thing sure isn't solved by "WELP BATMAN WOULDN'T WANT TO USE GUNS SO THEY DON'T EXIST WE WILL NEVER USE GUNS EVEN THINKING A GUN THOUGHT IS UNTHINKABLE NO GUN OF ANY SORT FORM OR SHAPE WILL BE EVER PRESENTED AGAIN IF BATMAN IS INVOLVED", in the same way it would make no sense for the cannon to disappear from anybody's mind because it's not useful to the plot anymore.The cannon is out there with all its (not-negligible) implications. I'm just saying that whatever they are, they must be narratively dealt with.
>>151654857Alastor being very avoidant throughout the entire season felt weird with how attached to Charlie's side he was in season 1. I'd had to figured he realized that the Hazbin Hotel were supposed to be a failure but actually worked out when you gather people with genuine longing for companionship and acceptance. I thought it was Viv being extra against Alastor x Charlie shippers and not giving the more material. Yet maybe it was a calculated move to start detaching himself from the Hotel itself so he isn't seen as weak like Vox.YET, everything he did in season 2 keep them all out of harm's reach until Charlie or anyone else got involved.
>>151654981He was just VERY done with this shit, in pain, weakened and with seemingly no way out of any of his problems. It makes sense that he just didn't want to deal with Charlie being her overexcited self. And also a direct continuation of his breakdown in S1 finale, >I almost died for these people, what the hell was I thinking
>all the theories that she’s the Root of All Evil, Personification of Sin, the big bad behind everything, etc I hope when Roo does show up she’s none of these things, just some edgy evil chick with a silly name. I want Viv to smash the Roo headcanons just like she did to the vigilante Alastor and televangelist cult leader Vox headcanons this season.
>>151654751That's exacly my point. Nothing points one direction or the other. As of now, the only true thing is that it is possible to make one (to whatever scale).One could just as well think that in order to reach Heaven WAY OVER UP THERE you needed a really REALLY big gun, and so that was what they built.If in the future they spitball how to solve the next crisis and it turns out CAN'T be done on a smaller, safer scale? Perfect, they solved the narrative issue at hand (just like having Luficer being unable to hurt Sinners solves the "Why doesn't he get involved if a Sinner threatens Charlie" issue).As of now, that's not the case.
>>151655072People still say he was a “cult” leader even though it was plainly some kind of weird art movement. Head canons are hard to break.
>>151654981>>151655047I was under the impression that Rosie sent him into the Hotel after forcing him on a 7-years hiatus, so whatever he did to defend and support Charlie came from having specific instructions in that regard.For what reasons and goals I dunno, but I guess we'll see, Rosie is one of those characters who reek of secret plots and WHATATWEEST mysteries
>>151655072>>151655095there's nothing headcanon about vox being a cult leader, that was in his audition sheet
>>151655161I always assumed that he was a Lilith supporter and so would have been the first to go during the initial exterminations.
>>151655095Honestly the cult leader headcanon was pretty compelling. Especially if it’s painted like Vox truly believed his own bullshit and thought he was going to take him and his followers to heaven, only to be damned to hell. So his whole real reasoning for his uprising is pure seething over it.
>>151655095Eh, potato potato.He had a following of people he lorded over, the fact that it happened via TV doesn't make him any less of a cult.
>>151655179>a very old-school manNever gave me that impression
>>151655179That may have been the original idea but in S2 he was obviously nothing like that. The dude was a pioneer in television and a visionary. If he was supposed to have an actual cult they failed at showing that.
>>151655161Rosie/Lilith and Adam are the most annoying mystery box characters ever.
>>151655201>seethes that God rejected him>seethes again that deer bussy rejected himWould have been pretty kino, not gonna lie
>>151655201That does make more sense. I wonder if that was the original idea but Vivzie chickened out at the last minute.
>>151655194Alastor was revealed to be making ritualistic sacrifices to attract some devil/demon or whatever ethereal entity from beyond to make a deal with in order to continue his own fun. I also thought a lot of it was also rumor mill stuff like with Mimzy spreading them in the Hotel on Alastor's behalf. Vagatha in the pilot was also spreading the same kind of rumors Mimzy did in the actual Amazon produced episode. Alastor is in for himself still, and still obviously does not have any real attachment like a friend.
>>151655179Yeah I was expecting an actual cult leader, not a power hungry weatherman.
Will be interesting to see how Lilith is revealed to be evil in S3. Originally I thought she was trying to rile sinners up against heaven but now that Vox tried that I think they will have to go a different direction with her.
>>151655161Rosie forced him to join the hotel, but in the season finale he seems quite happy with being there (one could get accustomed) and she straight up laughed at his face for trying to fight Adam. So in S2 he just seems to double down on the no friends in hell policy. It's interesting that the narrative seems to punish him for getting close to people (S1) and rewarding him for working on his own (S2)
>>151655412Maybe his issue is being unable to work for himself? The dude was dealing with Jim Crow during his time on earth. He might have some issues with being subservient to others.
>>151655388She will reveal she hates Sinners just as much as Lucifer does, but she does enjoy ruling over them because having Adam’s descendants serve her as Queen is great. Twist reveal that she did want Sinners rising up, because she wanted the exterminations to happen. They were her gift to her dear husband, she thought watching sinners get slaughtered by heaven would cheer him up since he can’t do it himself.
>>151654952But the Canon doesn't exist anymore, the average citizen doesn't have access to Lucifer and none of the people with access to him would wanna make a Canon. The literal only people who would make such a weapon would just be other opportunistic villains. Not our protagonists.>I dunno, but Vox didn't aim at Heaven a Gustav Cannon made out of angelic steel, I'm pretty sure a top-tier angel has more oomph than a pointy stick if things really got dire enough to warrant such a measure.Also I'm pretty sure the Cannon was made of angelic steel. But regardless the only reason it needed to be as powerful as it was was because he wanted to use it to blast at heaven a billion miles away all the way from hell as a show of force. Its a pretty unwieldy weapon for anything other than essentially dropping a nuke. We have no reason to believe that theres a need for that kind of destructive force for any one particular entity. Adam was a pretty high level threat and he was stabbed to death with a giant needle. It just seems wholly unnecessary to build another one for the soul purpose of killing a guy when we haven't even observed anyone tanking a hit from a holy weapon. It honestly just depends on what kind of threat we're dealing with in the further seasons. Lute can just be stabbed. Allastor can just be stabbed. And for all we know so can Lilith and the seraphims. (Which is irrelevant cuz lucifer can fight them just fine). Most of the threats in the series aren't "too strong" to defeat. Charlie didn't spend all of season 2 wondering how to beat up Vox. I dont even think she planned to beat him up in the finale. Moreso she just wanted to stall him until she could get the video out. It was alastor who wanted the salty runback with Vox. Which just so happened to help Charlie and crew out.
>>151655441It does not justify his actions, but his life on earth explains quite well why he sees all relationships as transactions. Being a Creole in New Orleans in the 1920s and 1930s meant that he had to be judged his entire life and always had to work three times as hard to achieve what a white man could easily achieve. Add to that the fact that he surely had to act submissive so that he would not be killed just for being black, It's no wonder Alastor distrusts everyone and hates the idea of anyone having control over him in any way.
>>151655577The fact that he stitched his face into a permanent smile to get the illusion of constant control while being a slave should speak for itself about how supremely fucked up he is mentally
>>151651218It's weird that Cherri and Pentious have been squabbling for decades for turf but they're both broke bitches?
>>151654981>>151655161I won't lie. The reveal that disappearing for 7 years and the implication that being at the hotel at all were Rosie's ideas killed a lot of mystique for Alastor had for me. The idea of this evil guy vanishing suddenly for 7 years only to return and support Charlie for unknown motivations/his own amusement was really compelling. You dont trust him but you're constantly wondering what his angle is. If he's gonna betray them and when/how/why? Or if he'll really stick around as a neutral party cuz he thinks watching Charlie fail is funnier.But now it just seems like everything he did was just because his dummy mommy told him to. And I'm worried without her leading him around by the leash Alastor will be a much more 1 dimensional villain.
>>151655694They were too busy squabbling to actually make any deals or subjugate anyone. Anytime pentious built a new thing cherri would just blow it up so its not like he had much Influence outside of his eggs. Nobody took him all that seriously.
>>151655684Besides, always smiling was something he already seemed to do when he was human. It must fuck with your mind to have to act like a model minority all the time, no matter how many insults and threats you hear directed at you, just so they don't kill you and you can get a job.
>>151655732He still eats people.
>>151655756Well yeah. Both Vox and Alastor were fucked up from the beginning. Alastor was just projecting when he was bullying Vox in S2z
>>151655412Yeah, it's funny how Vivz actually made Alastor end up worse off when he was forming bonds than when he was just manipulating everyone. You'd expect the opposite to happen, given the obvious message the series is trying to convey. I wonder if the series will do something interesting with that or if it's simply Vivz's incompetence in not realizing that, at the moment, the show is proving Alastor right by making his plan work, while Charlie and the others' plan at the hotel failed almost completely.
>>151655756It gets more interesting when you know eating is a major form of control in a number of mental problems. Alastor's character really is all about control
>>151655819I think she's setting him up for a fall. In the same way The Vs were set up at the end of season 1 for a rise.
How do you respond without sounding mad?
Something that is not often considered is that it is quite possible that Alastor knows about Vox's past, given that he knows what his name was when he was human. If he does know, then Alastor would be completely justified in not wanting to work with Vox, knowing that he had already killed several of the people he had worked with before, even if they had never done anything wrong to him.
>>151655855Pretty sure Vox told him his real name when they were flirting over whiskey or whatever. That or he went by “Vincent” when he first arrived at Hell
>>151655819>I wonder if the series will do something interesting with that or if it's simply Vivz's incompetence in not realizing that, at the moment, the show is proving Alastor rightWhile I have absolutely no faith in Viv's writing skills, that particular bit seems way too deliberate to be casual.
>>151655700I mean, that just shift the unknown motivations on Rosie and that's fine by me if they make it interesting and give her actual schemes and goals instead of being a wise woman in charge like Carmilla.Guess that everything that is to know about Alastor boils down to the fact that he is pretty much a feral creature hiding behind a veil of affectation.
>>151655898>that sceneGod he just couldn’t help but lead Vox on. What a tease.
>>151655894I would like to agree with you, but the fact that Vivz somehow doesn't understand why people are criticising Charlie for not showing more concern for her father when she saw him bleeding and almost fainting means that I can't have even the slightest faith in her.
>>151655943Lucifer can’t die. She knows he is fine.
>>151655960He is literally bleeding and almost fainting, which should make any child extremely worried, even if they previously believed their parents were invincible.
>>151655543>But the Canon doesn't exist anymore,"Out there" as a concept, not physically.And, for the thousandth time, the point is not about how likely are the character to use it. They are not. The issue it is that, now that the concept exists in the narrative, it will always be an option unless the address it in-universe.
>>151655577I'm really, REALLY hoping that the Alastor vigilante theory gets retconned to be true and that reason that he seemed like just a run-of-the-mill indulgent serial killer is that we saw too little of him to get a good perspective. There were all these little character details sprinkled here and there and it'd be a tragedy if they all just meant fuck all.That, AND it'd perfect foil to the themes of the show and Charlie's ideals.Whatever. It seems pretty obvious he's going to be the arc villain for s3. Hopefully he'll get like 5 songs the same way vox did in s2. We'll find out then.
>>151653665Why is it always Hitler Hitler Hitler with you freaks? Let's start out with how there's at least a 60% chance he'd be unrecognizable as a Sinner leaving him with little means of proving his identity and then get into how that's the best case scenario for him. Because we have no proof that he'd wind up in Hell Germany but even if he did, it's not like he'd start out in charge of it. Even if the dead Nazis formed a still existing gang against all their dead enemies, you really think whoever ran it would hand the reins to Furher Fucknuts? If people identified him he's either in some weirdos private collection or is brought out on holidays to be tortured at luxury events.
I'm all for big musical closing numbers wrapping up the plots, but maybe resolving FOUR arcs (at least one of which barely touched upon) in a single song was a bit much.
>>151656004I really don’t see it happening, not after showing us literally selling his soul not for any power or benefits while living but just as insurance so he can continue being a murderous monster for fun after death. That’s like peak evil right there.
>>151656004After seeing his behavior in S2 I really do doubt that he was any kind of vigilante. He just loves killing and eating people. He’s only polite and charming because he had to be in order to succeed as a black man in that era.
This show (but really, anything with musical moments forwarding the plot, this one is just the latest iteration of the thing) makes me think that if I had had the chance way back when, I would gladly have been a theater kid.Oh well.
>>151654440That's something I've been confused about, the other Overlords didn't seem to really respect the Vees and I'm not sure they're right and the Vees are mostly just flash and style, or behind the times and unaware of the terrifying power of a megacorp.
>>151656063I don't think Vivz is going to make Alastor some kind of vigilante, but the fact that she showed how Vox started killing, while with Alastor we only saw his final moments as he was preparing for his fall into hell, makes me think that there are more things about his past that Vivz doesn't want to show yet.
Alastor has so far only killed people who deserved it (in hell.) I don’t get why people say he is “evil.” He only sold his soul because he believed that he was hell bound. He very well could have only killed bad people while human.
>>151656057> but maybe resolving FOUR arcs (at least one of which barely touched upon) in a single song was a bit much.In season 3, it might be crazier because of Zestial/Cain, Carmilla, Abel, Lute, Lilith/Eve, Vaggi, and Charlie
Is anyone in heaven going to notice that Lute is in dire need of therapy? Like seriously the bitch is insane and almost got Emily killed
>>151656153I’ve seen people justify him murdering that white guy who spilled wine on him because “he’s clearly racist”Which, I can see yes based on the time period and how he just laughed it off and didn’t apologize, but racism doesn’t justify brutal murder. Some Alastor fans are just as deranged as he is.
>>151656208Therapy is an evil scam, and so doesn't exist in heaven.
>>151656153What is interesting is that Alastor never killed Vox despite being pestered by him for decades. Same goes for Pentious. He's not a mindless killer, he has some kind of code
>>151656208There's no therapy in heaven, just feel good drugs. Case in point >>151646682
>>151656222Considering what racism was like at that time, Alastor may have seen it as deserved. In those days, you could lynch a black person and there would be no repercussions for those who did it. Perhaps Alastor, seeing this, ended up thinking that any racist could do the same and therefore deserved to die. I don't agree with him, but I can see why he would come to that conclusion.
>>151656309>you are racist therefore I should be able to kill and eat youSad part is I could definitely see Vivzie go this route.
>>151656279Alastor surely did have some code of conduct, although not a very strong one. When the guy spilled wine on him, Alastor just looked at him as if waiting for an apology. His smile did not become malicious until the guy, instead of apologizing, just started laughing and spilled more wine on his clothes.
>>151656309>>151656322I wonder what he felt about buckbreaking.
>>151656279How many times did Vox and Alastor actually fight prior to his absence though? I think it only happened once after Alastor shattered Vox’s heart into a million pieces and almost killed him in the ensuing battle.
>>151656340I used to think the trigger was being disrespectful, but both Vox and Pentious both were, multiple times, yet he didn't kill them. Even Mimzy was disrespectful to a point. So it's not just that.
>>151653665Actual cannon, in-universe reason for that.There's a character named Roo. OC that existed before even the pilot. We might see her in s5. Roo is short for Roo(t of all evil). She looks like this >>151655072 . In Hazbin lore she's the physical embodiment of sin. Not to be confused with the 7 deadly sins which in Hazbin lore are just really powerful demons with an affinity for their chosen sin. Anyone that's too evil just gets shunted to her when they die. She then eats them(?). That's why there are no pedophiles/rapists/white-supremists in the Hell depicted in the show. They're either being eaten by the physical embodiment of evil, or they're being shunted to actual Hell.The "Hell" depicted in the show might -no shit- just be limbo, or at least purgatory. A core part of the story and world of Hazbin is that people can be moved up from "Hell" to Heaven. Which is a major feature of Limbo and a major non-feature of actual Hell.
>>151655943The Lucifer ans Charlie issue isn't even a characterization one. It's worse. It's proof that these writers can't recognize when they need payoff proportionate to the build up they create, which is basic writing. When you have the main character blow up at her father, have him then be kidnapped before they can reconcile, show her worrying about him and going to a location specifically to help him, have multiple scenes of him worrying about her being mad at him, and have him, as a powerful figure, be injured beyond what we thought he could be, you can't end the storyline with a gag and a one second scene of concern and expect people to be satisfied. I don't get how they thought overly long battle scenes were more important narratively to spend time on.
>>151655988My point is that theres no point in using it in like...90% of scenarios. We have yet to be shown a character strong enough to tank being stabbed by angelic steel so you'd first have to present a threat you can't reason with and is impervious to damage or large enough that damage is negligible. Which for all intents and purposes is just a wild assumption. My point is "why build a lucifer gun unless they make a specific issue where a lucifer gun is the only way to stop it?">Alastor is doing evil stuff.Why can't we just stab him with a heaven sword or shoot him with heaven bullets? Even if you HAVE a lucifer gun why wouldnt he just stop you from firing it or dodge? >The Vs plan a comebackAll 3 of them perfectly stabbable. Or shoot able with holy bullets (like angel had in the S1 finale) they're strong but Charlie and the gang have fought them off before already. >Lilith Lucifer would he against fighting her anyway but theres still no evidence you couldn't just shoot her with heavenly bullets.Anyone else is from heaven and lucifer could just fight them anyway! And Emily is on Charlie's side too. Couldn't she just help out?The very specific situation they would need to build a weapon based on lucifer's power are specific enough that I dont have an issue if it never comes up. Also the process didn't exactly seem comfortable or enjoyable for lucifer.
>>151655855Eh, I feel like Alastor has way too big an ego to give serious consideration to anyone being able to kill him, or especially any sinner. Because he knows he bought the deluxe packet that autoleveled him to 99.That's the real reason he broke things off, or at least a key factor. That's the reason he avoids any close relationship, and why he keeps harping on Vox for being able to rely on others. It's a basic bitch combination of projection and envy.
I'm gonna roll the dice and say Lucifer and Lilith used Eve's soul to create Charlie. That's why Charlie is so sympathetic towards the sinners, she subconsciously views them as her children. She slowly starts to remember when she has SinnerAdam stay at the Hotel... I wish Earn It would update soon.
>>151656471Roo shows up in season 4.
>>151656492None of that makes any sense.
>>151656559Not that guy BUT one aspect of Jewish folklore surrounding Lilith is that she is cursed with infertility for refusing to let Adam take the dominant role in sex. Would explain with Lucifer apparently also claimed to bang Eve in S1.
Honestly, a big part of the problem with theorizing is that you never know when something is meant to be theorized about or when it's just Viv being incompetent. Maybe Alastor's flashback was meant to show that he didn't really have any code, but if that's the case, then showing him killing a guy who could easily be seen as a racist is the worst way to do it.
>>151656597I know that. Charlie’s mom is Eve and Rosie/Lilith calls herself “Aunt” to hint towards that fact.Charlie has Eve’s clown nose.
>>151656664>Eve is in a way Fem Adam>Lucifer hooking up with her is like him hooking up with Adam>"AdamsApple" shippers win againAlso, would Wilhelm II be in Heaven or Hell?
>>151656653Sometimes bad people are just bad. Without any curses, trauma, or background behind it. And when they are given more to experience, they either become better or worse. Free will is a pain, after all
>>151656735Eve is a literal clown woman in this show.
>>151656744I don't disagree, but the problem is that if Viv was trying to imply that with the Alastor flashback, she completely failed, not only because the person he killed was someone the audience could easily dislike for being racist, but also because of Rosie's words about Alastor having to work incredibly hard to get his radio show. All of this, instead of making Alastor look like a complete bastard who did wrong even though he had a good life, gives the impression of someone who had several problems throughout his life and only kills people who do something bad.
>>151656782What it showed is that Alastor kills anyone who he sees as disrespecting him. If they wanted him to be the anti racism warrior his fans act like he is, they could have shown him going after some racist hurting another person or being openly terrible. Instead he killed a drunk guy who spilled wine on him and laughed. That guy could have been black and he probably would have still killed him.
>>151656782>and only kills people who do something badNot necessarily. Hurt people hurt people and all that jazz. Him taking the shit he had to endure out on other people without some sort of higher moral code is a perfectly viable interpretation of what has been shown.
Where in the world was it confirmed that Cain and Zestial are the same person? Lute being Eve has legit more evidence than Zestial / Cain. Was this a leak?
>>151656945Nowhere. Fans of this show have this weird habit of claiming that an already revealed character is secretly a yet to revealed one for some reason.
Despite my better judgement I can't NOT find jarring that he voices a gay cat who shoots hearts from his hands.
>>151656945> Lute being Eve has legit more evidence than Is this who I think it is?
I hope St. Peter turns out ot be an absolute powerhouse. I like the idea that he's timid on purpose
>>151657000A lute / Eve believer? Yes. But not anyone specific. I don't talk to people like that on this platform. I didn't even know you could do that
I'm irrationally miffed at them going with O'ER when OVER would have pretty much fit just the same.
>>151656664You're wrong about the nose. Charlie's black nose is always visible from any angle and lighting because her nose is actually black (either because it's an animal-like nose or her skin is just colored that way). The woman in Heaven's nose is a regular human one that's upturned and often casting a shadow.>inb4 this is an artist's errorNo.
>>151657063Roo / Evil and Charlie have the same nose
>>151656945No it's one schizo. I tried to think of a better way to describe him but I can't think of anything. He's a schizo.
>>151657087No she won't
>>151657131Just an observation from the previous official designs. We don't know yet how she'll appear in the series
>>151657063Her actual nose is like this.She’s putting on a disguise.
>>151657063Honestly I have always taken Charlie's features as kind of a skull face with the cheek dots as a very slight visual nod (with no cultural relevance of any sort) to dia de los muertos.
>>151657025Sinners chose their names. If Cain became as sinner, wouldn’t Zestial Morde be the most thematically appropriate in consideration of Cain’s fallen saint themes?
>Oh yeah no, I remember hearing stories about Hell and all that... not so much all the singing and rampant homosexuality though>That was unexpected... well, the singing at least
>>151657378That's just speculation though. Do you have hard evidence? Because other than speculation/personal headcanons, There is zero indication tying Zestial to Cain. Any interviews with the voice actors? Any comments from Viv in particular?
>>151646682I will not lie I burst out laughing at this line. I wish I could say the same for my city
>>151657421This Viv’s indirect comment about Zestial.
>>151657015Peter was always ready to throw down so it would make sense.
>>151656974because he is Keith David mother fucker. he can do whatever the fuck he wants
Ranking the Adamfag's theories from how much I think he might be onto something>The exorcists were made from Adam or the same process Lilith was and there might be further implications of thatThere's certainly something up with the exorcists. They don't look like any other angel we've seen and we don't see any of them living a sort of off duty life except for Lute. Adam has grey hair and gold eyes with slit pupils like they do. Lilith has slit pupils.>gap>Eve is Charlie's biological mom/she has some Roo in herI mean, maybe. Without more information I don't know what the implications of this are meant to be. Eve doing a big favor like that for Lucifer and Lilith and them even asking her for that feels weird. If Lucifer can create the Goetia, you'd think he'd be able to find a way to make Charlie without needing a woman to carry her.>gap>Carmilla is a fallen angelI think this theory had legs in season 1 but I don't see it panning out. It's kind of like the Eve being Charlie's mom theory, like what is this supposed to mean for the story?>gap>gap>Lute is EveActually I don't think this is one of his theories, but it doesn't add up either way.>gap>Zestial is CainI appreciate his efforts in trying to tie the dozens of characters who already exist into the main plot but there's been no actual hints of this.>gap>gap>gap>Sera will be an antagonist who has to be foughtIDK this just sounds like an extension of his drive to woobify Adam and Lute. Sera's more likely to sacrifice herself as penance for everything that's happened (without turning into a villain beforehand).
>>151657452She is 100% talking about Alastor here. Zestial doesn't do anything in the finale to make people start seeing him differently.
>>151647009Bold of you to assume she has one
>>151657452This could literally be about Alastor. But even if it is about Zestial, that's not any indication whatsoever that he's Cain
>>151657472Jessica Vosk has not only said very strange things, she straight up retweeted the 'Lute is Eve' theory with a smiling evil emoji. That already puts it as a viable theory. Lots of I show references. I genuinely have no idea where or how Zestial / Cain came about other than he's very old
>>151647368>Val could have made him do it anywaysNo he couldn't, not without some kind of threat and even then Angel could have pretended to play along only to tell Hell that Charlie's hotel is awesome and the Vees are lying assholes.
>>151657530Tbh my interpretation of Jessica's response was that Lute is going to kill Eve, because I think that's something Lute would do.
>>151657452She is literally talking about Alastor and you must be media illiterate to not know better from reading that. Zestial had a total of maybe 4 minutes screen time and less dialogue than Carmilla. Alastor was always the villain in the shadows and was always a joy to have on screen. So it will hit harder when he eventually falls out of favor and betrays the Hazbin Hotel cast.
>>151647628>you know dasher and dancer>prancer and vixen>comet and cupid, Donner and Blitzo>but do you recaaaaalll>the most famous
>>151657558You are absolutely correct. This could very well be the case. Safe to say she definitely has some connection to Eve. An official review for season 2 actually mentioned this off hand, the Lute / Eve connection, which I found very odd and out of place in the review. Another one stated that Lute is 'on a path of redemption for Adam'. Listen, I was initially on board with the Roo / Eve theory, I didn't even think twice about it at first, but when you put everything together, Lute has a lot of weird shit going on. But people are too dismissive and just claim Roo / Eve when Roo (Evil) is this ancient primordial entity, and as for Eve being slighted and wanting revenge... So far the only broad I've seen that's crazy and wanting revenge is Lute.
>>151648459>>151647711I want to enjoy this I really do but the style makes it hard enough to figure out what I am even looking at
>>151657559Honestly, seeing how Vivz made a large part of the audience want Vox to win because of how incompetent and stupid everyone acted at the hotel, I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing happened when Alastor becomes the villain, and it could possibly be worse considering that Alastor is like 20 times more popular than Vox was at the beginning of the second season.
>>151646682>Heaven is...le bad!I mean calling it Satanic would be like saying the sky is blue but the shit is fucking retarded.
>>151657506What are you implying here?
>>151651122You dropped this queen
>>151657677soon to be Alastor's HEAVENLY bride who will ascend for """"reasons""""
>>151651191Heaven holy shit there's no rent. Hell is run by overlords
>>151657421The guy is a schizo don't pay any attention to him
>>151657472>>Lute is Eve>Actually I don't think this is one of his theories, but it doesn't add up either way.Never was mine.It is the stupidest thing I have seen. And is absolutely braindead to the core. I never ever ever supported it.> Eve doing a big favor like that for Lucifer and Lilith and them even asking her for that feels weird. If Lucifer can create the Goetia, you'd think he'd be able to find a way to make Charlie without needing a woman to carry her.Goetia and other Hellborn are soulless.Charlie coming from Eve will not have this significant issue. And even inherent special gifts.> IDK this just sounds like an extension of his drive to woobify Adam and Lute. Sera's more likely to sacrifice herself as penance for everything that's happenedI would hope that’s the outcome that occurs from Sera, because I would be scared of her becoming a villain in the first place. But… her actions don’t give me any faith upon it. And I know Sam Haft confirmed they’ve reused a scrapped Gravity track for a villain song in season 4, and the villain singing it would not be Lute.So I’m trying to find the kind of characters that would have this heavenly-themed villain song. And so far, Lucifer makes sense depending on season 3, and Sera’s banishment was foreshadowed in “Live to Live”. It’s just I found out what Sera would be banished for, and don’t feel certain how she would react afterwards.If she does this>”Adam, I wished you stayed dead.”It would be ridiculously tragic.>>Carmilla is a fallen angelI have been uncertain on it myself. It could’ve been scrapped in the story at some point and I’m fine with that. Especially if Zestial does turn out to be Cain, since that alone would trigger so much drama and plot in the story, including the climax of season 3.And Zestial being Cain would imply he got his throne and support from Eve directly, and he knew Eve in heaven when Vox was proposing his Heaven blaster cannon.
>>151651329Ok So Vaggie can regenerate her wings because they were only ripped off physically by an angel (Lute) but concentrated angel energy beams and angelic steel result in permanent damage
>>151657730Heaven is not ready for Alastor's smugness.
>>151657766no one is really
>>151651482If Lucifer was smart he could have had Carmilla make him a gun ages ago. Ofc he couldn't even physically punch Vox so maybe he would still need someone else to pull the trigger. He could in fact have had a few guns made, powers them up and then sends out his trusted generals to take care of the worst of hell.
>>151657558>>151657609Honestly, Lute should kill Eve in season 3 since that war-wanting drama queen was the reason why Lute was brought into existence in the first place. So by killing Eve, Lute would quickly find herself in the void.
>>151651122>Feel like the bubblethere is no bubble, most certainly not nvidia bubble
>>151657819We literally have no idea what Eve is even like. I'm confused as to why people call her a bitch. Not that I'm against the idea necessarily, but it's really weird to me that we're jumping to that conclusion? Evil / Roo Is the bitch, sure, but there is no indication that her and Eve are one in the same.Viv liking puns does not confirm anything.
>>151657609> Another one stated that Lute is 'on a path of redemption for Adam'.This was shown in Gravity.I think Eve will use Lute as her main puppet for information and war pushes to get the conflict she wanted. But when Lute drops away from the revenge against Vaggi (because none of this was what Adam wanted), Eve will suddenly lose her hold on Lute and unexpectedly find herself slaughtered point-blink.
It must be nice to live completely in delusions like schizoAnon, so completely sure of his own canon and events of a show only he knows.
>>151657949I don't even disagree with the direction the story would go in if that was the case, I just don't think Roo is Eve. Roo / Evil is literally just Roo. In fact, that alleged leak where it states that Roo has a hold over Eve, like a parasite or a puppet, literally fits with what you just told me if you make Lute Eve. We've already established someone close to Adam who wants revenge for being wronged.. Viv has said that nobody takes her seriously, and we see this, we see heaven not giving a shit about what she says. She literally fits the storyline everyone has been trying to push about Eve, that she's some psycho bitch. It's literally Lute.
>>151657854I don’t care. Vox is a peanut ant in comparison to Eve and Eve had the free will to be against evil as Abel and Cain. And she didn’t even cry at Adam’s death and still wants to cause a giga war against Heaven despite being in Eden.She is bad. And Vox is the son that reflects her very well.
>>151657991Who gives a damn? If a witch is fused with the demon, they do bad things together and they both know they are being evil, they both deserve divine retribution. Stop simping for the unrepentant Eve. That was Adam’s mistake.
>>151658000We literally don't know what she's like though? Where are you getting that she's evil?? So because the story that Charlie narrated, a story that was written by either Lucifer or Lilith, by the way, showed her smiling mischievously, that means... She's evil and wants war?
>>151658029Evil / Roo Is legions ahead of Eve, stop trying to make it a human. I do not care about the shadowy Eve figure we saw, because we don't know what she's like. I'm okay with hating her, or liking her, or whatever, I just need to see what she's like first. Also, Lute is Eve so And yes, she deserves divine retribution. Nobody is excusing that lol
>>151657854It’s adamschizo, he has a completely made up version of this show in his head and is convinced and talks as if it’s 100% real and confirmed. If you see a post talking about information that is no where in the actual series, it’s usually him.
>>151657995I like both, and hope Hatemonger accepts his weirdly shaped penis and finds love one day with an alien.
>>151658036I have seen the leaks, and what Eve does. She is evil because people blamed her for doing the original sin, and she wastes her time trying to make Lucifer suffer and destroy Heaven from her own pure seething. Nothing about her is good. Nothing. Zip-zero.
>>151658060Got it, that makes sense. Viv has actually even confirmed that they're going to explore that whole aspect of the woman being blamed for the original sin and how unfair it is. It'd be weird to make her completely and utterly evil if that's what they were trying to do.
>>151658071>source: I made it up
>>151658060Dude we had the Eve leak since 2023.
>>151651976>losing its edgePoison was the last time we went super dark with Angel, the bit with Vox was very well done
>>151658071I have seen leaks too. A lot of them actually. That information the employee had, which by the way, they didn't even have the full context, stopped working for spindlehorse... For how long now? You are aware that things change right? Also there are no leaks where we see Eve's design either. The only thing we have is the 'fanart' from the Helluva Boss employee on Twitter, who states that's their 'headcanon' for what Eve looks likeAlso.. again that can literally just be Lute
>>151658075> that whole aspect of the woman being blamed for the original sin and how unfair it is.Lute’s life is objectively far more unfair than Eve’s.
>>151652033>animals have souls and go to the same heaven and he'llCareful with that can of worms there anon
>>151658036Don’t bother with arguing with him, his source is literally>it came to me in a dreamDude is watching Hazbin Hotel Beyond the Light or something not the show we are seeing.
>>151658111EXACTLY. She is already set up as someone cheated by the system, where she is not listened to and nobody takes seriously.
>>151652379>radio dial boobs
>>151658121The whole Eve and Lilith leak happened in 2023. It’s old information.How young are you?
>>151658121Would that be the same guy who posted that whole Emily / Alastor fanfiction? And supposedly heard Viv talking about all this
>>151652524Ok schizo
>>151657635I wager that Alastor will just cut all ties and leave no regrets but wont directly harm anyone at the Hotel because he does have a deep seeded comradery with them. Intentionally or not. He must have some kind of time sensitive or level indicator tied to his deal to be an Overlord of Hell. The more deals he makes, AND successfully granted has to be tied to his ascension to greater power or something other.
>>151658128She’s an Eve parallel. But Lute’s existence is supposed to take the opposite turn of Eve’s. And Eve, despite the sympathy, is still maliciously evil to everyone for thousands and thousands of years, using Roo to do evil acts. Even against particulars like Angel Dust.She is a very bad person.
>>151658165forgotten to upload an image of his eyesthey look like dialsthere must be a capping point that he is waiting to pop
>>151658139No. I never claimed to be associated with the show runners ever.
>>151653665Stop posting this you loser
>>151658169I wonder how mindbroken you’ll be when your headcanons end up being deconfirmed. Will you have a public meltdown in the threads as a treat?
>>151658138Yes we heard about that leak all those years ago. Things change, especially if they got leaked, you really think Viv isn’t going to change her story around to counter that?
>>151652647Yeah, like it doesn't matter the technicalities, if Lucifer wants to hurt the sinners it will not work period. It's a divine punishment
>>151658169Evil / Roo? Sure. Eve? We literally know nothing of her at this point. At all. I would love to know where you got your information. Lute? Literally fits the criteria and what you just described. Jessica Vosk commenting on the theory itself lends itself to that
>>151658199I’m confused…Didn’t I take the show’s new material to break apart my own material and even the relationship Adam has with Lute?Especially with the exorcist flashback that caused Twitter to throw a fit.For me, I went, “oh, nothing about this is cute or fun. I should think about this… and Vaggie had normal eyes? That is strange, how is there a Roo infection?”My problem with Eve is that she is canonically an unrepentant wicked woman for nearly her whole eternity, and Vivziepop wants to wobbie her like Eve didn’t bring this to herself and couldn’t have been a winner thousands of years ago.I’m glad Lute exists so that woman has irreparable consequences for her actions.
>>151653655Ignore him, he's insane
>>151658256You literally don't know anything about Eve. We as a collective audience know nothing about Eve. What are you on about
>>151658234Would you stop?This is Eve, and Roo coming out of her body.
>>151658286That's just Evil / Roo. Why are you assuming Roo = Eve.
>>151658273We already have her most recent undisguised appearance since season 1.I don’t care.
>>151658312Again. Roo / Evil, or knowing Viv, they could very well just be Lilith. You know she was drawn with different hairstyles in the pilot, right?Give me hard evidence that she's Eve.
>>151658310They share the same body and role of being the big bad woman. I don’t care. Throw the stone at the witch, Old Testament style.
>>151657656I mean. This season heaven feels more innocent and incompetent than flatly bad. Pentious seems to warm up to it eventually. He just had a little culture shock.
>>151658333Nice fanfiction. Jessica Vosk all but confirmed the theory that Lute is Eve. And would you look at that, she fits the evil woman criteria too. Cope
I want to see Emily raped so bad
>>151658328Top of head. Is smoothed.Liltih’s hair is never smoothed on the top. It points up like Lute and Lucifer.It’s covered up by her hat.
>>151658116Those pangolins had to come from somewhere
>>151658354Does that mean Alastor and Vox are the same person, anon?
>>151658328Put the circle piece to the circle hole.
>>151658367That still does not prove that she is Roo? Roo is the Evil goddess We saw in the beginning of that episode. Stop trying to woobify her into a human. They are not the same
>>151658111>Lute’s life is objectively far more unfair than Eve’s.???????? Don't explain your schizo logic to me I just want you see how baffled I am
>Lucifer is supposed to have given humans free will.>Lilith left Adam for Lucifer, which shows that she already had free will.I don't understand.
>>151655848Yes my Queen!
>>151658366never gonna happen
>>151658412It’s just Lucifer coping. The fruit is called the Fruit of Knowledge of Good and Evil, and by eating it mankind became capable of both, which corrupted them to allow them to perform evil.
>>151658412I mean barring any potential twists or whatever the logic would go that Eve wouldn't be given free will so there wouldn't be a repeat of Lilith.
>>151655943>muh Lucifer!!You people are insufferable he was literally a gag.
>>151658464I agree with this. It would explain why she 'gladly' accepted + why Lucifer decided to offer her the apple, versus Adam
I gotta ask. Can sinners kill sinners? Or does everyone in hell not. Killed by a divine weapon sorta just...regenerate?
>>151656153>only killed people who deserved itHe's been killing for FUN and outright says so
>>151658397>Don't explain your schizo logic to me I just want you see how baffled I amOkay.>Be Eve. Had the choice to be a naked gardener with loyal Adam. Screwed it up yourself by eating apple. You’re not in the crap life Adam willingly joined with you. Get mad getting blamed for the sin. Decide to be so unrepentant, even with the promise of redemption, you send yourself to hell. Finally meet Adam again after so long, he still desires you, decide to use him to push your own crazy revenge plan.>Be Lute. Your only purpose is to kill Sinners and die in wars. The only thing you felt to love was by Adam. Violence and destruction is all you’ve known about. Motherhood isn’t even a thing. You obeyed heaven to heaven to have the rewards of being disgraced, humiliated, and completely loveless upon Adam’s death. There is no HOPE at all to see Adam again. And when you discover you’re a sinful creature, you have no HOPE of being a winner or a true holy angel. Your existence is worthless. And superiors will blame you when you fall apart when they’ve made you broken on purpose.Hmm… who had it worse?
>>151658524Again, you don't know anything about Eve. Those are just assumptions. Who or where was it said that she's angry for being blamed for the first sin.
>>151658509>Can sinners kill sinners?Supposedly no, although there's been some iffy wording from some of the characters that makes me think an especially powerful overlord could. Officially no, they can only kill each other with angelic steel. Anyone who dies any other way regenerates but we don't know what that looks like or how long it takes.
>>151656653>I want to continue my FUN>Loads of corpses in the background>licking blood of his fingersYeah he looks like a real vigilante with a code of honor
>>151658538> Who or where was it said that she's angry for being blamed for the first sin.Indirectly by Vivziepop and directly by a 2023 leaker.
>>151658509Yeah it’s been mentioned a few times how sinners cannot be killed permanently unless by angelic steel, and either regenerate or pull themselves back together when injured, it’s honestly never been shown or explored yet strangely.
>>151658554By a leaker who wasn't working for spindlehorse anymore and didn't even have the full context of the Alastor / Rosie dynamic. Viv stating that they're going to explore how it's unfair that Eve gets. Blamed is not an indication that she's angry. For all we know she could be extremely depressed. We literally do not know. Try again
>>151656735
VOX IS AN ARSEHOLE
>>151658572The leaker will turn out to be nearly 100% correct. She knew Rosie was Liltih and owned Alastor at a time when no one would’ve guessed it.
>>151656974You mean an alcoholic bartender who is actually an ex overlord and master magician? Probably because it's fun and pays
>>151657015He just watches the door. Bible Peter was also a chicken
>>151658585I like how Alastor and Velvette vibe with what little screen time they had together. Vox's one sided onetis on unreciprocated affection for Alastor has fucked with the Vee's polycule partnership for domination.
>>151658366This guy is not going to Heaven
Ok but how can glass be made of steel
>>151657378>wouldn't zestial Morde be the most thematically appropriate?Ignoring the fact you are taking the piss>the harvester>the reaper >the exiled one>forgotten son >Rocky
>>151658659ROCKY HELP OMFG
>>151657730He doesn't deserve her
>>151658659>the harvester>the reaper>the exiled one>forgotten sonTitles are not names.
>>151658683Zestial ain't Cain. Cope.
>>151658691You have stated not a single counterpoint in this topic.
>>151658678Emily being a ritzy tassel flopper girl and look like Mimzy would work for her design. Alastor would have no choice but to acknowledge her.
>>151658705You have not provided any solid evidence. There is nothing to counteract, save for your delusions. I'm serious. Show me a leak. Show me something a voice actor said. Show me something. Viv herself said. Show me any in-character dialogue that alludes Zestial being Cain, specifically.
>>151658713>flopper girlFLAPPER****
>>151658705Not the guy you've been talking to but a lot of your logic just relies on your ability to go "well it COULD mean this, therefore that's what it is". We actually do not know if who or where Cain is is meant to be a mystery to the characters. Nobody was theorizing that Abel was background angel #55 in season 1.
>>151658789What this guy said. Even if the VA did something like Jessica Vosk did, interacting with the Lute / Eve theory, THAT would be something. But there has been absolutely nothing on Zestial being Cain. I'm not even against the theory. But there's literally nothing
>>151658620Makes me wonder how bad it was before Alastor disappeared
>>151658811It's reasonable to think that there could be more to something IMO. There could be a reason as to why Viv made it so Zestial is the only overlord (maybe even the only sinner) from before the 19th century. But it doesn't necessarily prove that he's Cain.
>>151658678I refuse to let myself be drawn to this ship but I'm saving this because it's a legitimately good picture
>>151658723Zestial’s last name literally means “Murder” implying that everything everything about his design is themed on him killing Abel.He’s a scarecrow, scaring the pests, the sinners, and embracing the pure fear they have of him. He was a farmer on the field. Where the scarecrow belongs.The field would be the scarecrow’s web. And to kill Abel, he lured him to his domain and striked him died on that field.And… after him, there is a web of murder it inspired. Just like Angel Dust’s family and their web of crime.The name he chosen, angelic. The way he speaks is of a man of faith that became fallen and a disgrace to God. Cause after all, Cain killed Abel over his envy on getting God’s favor. So that little feather hat thing he and Abel has is a nod to his jealously. Abel’s hat reveals where Cain striked him. And Cain’s Hat has a skull on it, implying he is Abel’s killer, and he stiked him on the skull
>>151658811>>151658944It turns out the hats Abel and Cain have is the link we needed.
>>151658983See this isn't really evidence, these are your interpretations. Which aren't bad ones, though I think you're putting more thought into it than Viv did.
>>151647530>filtered by the best drinkngmi
>>151658366
Alastor somehow managing to become a successful and popular radio host despite everything against him in that time period is actually far more impressive than him getting away with serial murder for as long as he did. I wonder how often he had to put up with being told he’s “one of the good ones” or “a credit to his people” lmao
>>151658509I can't remember it being explicitly stated in the show but sinners regenerate when killed by other sinners.
>>151659055>Alastor's face when he woke up in Hell with literal ashy skin and a fuck ass bob
>>151659022You know why Abel and Adam have the “As” on their designs that resemble crosses in the middle of them?Those are the locations indicating how they died. Cain and Niffty have design choices pointing to them killing Abel and Adam.The skull on Cain’s hat. And the multiple blood splats on Niffty’s torso.
>>151658983Murder? Sure, absolutely. Agree with you. There, you then leap to specifically the murder of Abel... No. No evidence or correlation to that. From that, all we know is that he is apparently scarecrow themed if we're going by your interpretation, which sure, I can go with that, but no correlation to Abel, no correlation to Eden actually. From that point forward those are your headcanons. Not proof at all
>>151658683No but his new name should be reflective of one of these aspects. >zest = life, morde= mort/deathHe was probably well off in life, having some intricate web of control/finances. Or maybe a Spanish inquisitioner who knows
>>151659022The problem is this. When you reveal Zestial is Cain, it spoils a lot about season 3, especially with it turning out that Lute and Abel will both war against Hell.So you have to be driven crazy to find the little bread crumbs they bother giving or run off feeling stupid you didn’t realize that Zestial is Cain and is the massive villain of season 3.
>>151659212Exactly. Seconding this.
>>151658621Imagine her trembling from the sensation of being treated like a cumrag
>>151659223The only one so far who wants to go against Hell is Lute. There has been no indication (in fact, we've seen the opposite) that Abel is going to fight against hell. Again, that is your wishful thinking. We don't even know if season 4, which is gold in color according to Viv, is even going to be about Lute, much less season 3.
>>151659055Look at his hair, hes not black
>>151659212It’s actually Zest (Life) - ial (of God)Morde (Murder)As Gaberial is (Strength of God)
PANGOLINS ARE SHIT!!!
>>151659265Viv confirmed he's mixed black Creole but it took until after season 1 for her to finally relent and tweak his design
>>151659286Wait Alastor is a nig-NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
>>151659246I view Lute as a part of Eve’s schemes, especially with the implication that Lute and Vaggi were made because of Eve’s involvement with Sera.
>>151659282That scene causes so many questions,if Emily can make animals then could she make a new person?
>>151659212>>151659275Cain calls himself Zestial because he was a farmer (Life of God)And his last name indicates the sin that makes him fallen from God (Murder)Which is honestly freaky.
Sex that destroys family stability is sinful so sex should he allowed in heaven
>>151659304Bet. I think she's just Eve straight up. There's definitely a connection
Cain sure seems more intelligent than his stupid fuck dad or pussy ass lil bro
>>151659244
>>151659321She struggled to even make the new egg bois
>>151659402Vox and Val just fuck for fun, they aint a gay couple
>>151659359I don’t know. Adam right now is doing his spooky wander in Hell thing too. And they both have their chick to use and ditch to bow to Eve. Which is honestly really cold.
>>151659439Val definitely caught feelings. For Vox it's just a sex thing.
So does Vaggie rape Charlie? That Easy song implies a bunch of shit
>>151659439vox literally slipped up and called them partners in s2. He tried to correct to business partners but val and us know he meant it.
>>151659448I still think it would be cool if Adam was in fact a sinner down in hell but he was just chilling in one of Valentino's clubs or whatever fucking demon whores all day.
>>151659462in the song doesn't it show Charlie topping?
>>151659465The OOC in season 2 is something else
>>151659474>dykes>topsThat being said Charlie is doing all of the male dance moves.
Is Hell really that bad? At some point a sinner would see their human life like a fever dream
>>151659468Lute has Adam’s halo and it’s bright and golden. He isn’t fallen. Plus… he isn’t having sex with his own kids.He’s choosing to remain in hell for some reason, despite him setting up that Eden with Eve reunion. Did Lute cause him to change his mind or something?
>>151659462It's incredible how Vivz made Chaggie so bad that even the song where they fuck is criticized for how out of place it feels, and how the fact that Vaggie fucks Charlie just when she's crying is questionable at best.
>>151659531That's an ongoing issue with the entire series, especially after S2. If hell gets less chaotic then there is less of an incentive to be redeemed. It would be cool if we got to see more of your average sinner's lifestyle.
>>151659539Vivziepop cares more about Cain and his Latino woman than she does about Charlie and Vaggie.
>>151659582Zestial literally just disappears from the series until the end. Vivzie legit hates straight fan ships for some reason. She did the same thing with Alastor and the rest of the hotel crew by having Alastor stuck in the cuck chair for most of S2.
>>151659582Zestial isn't Cain. Cope
>>151659600For Vox the phrase "Fuck Alastor" is more of a fantasy really.
>>151659631implying vox would top the spicy deerhe could try I guess
>>151659597Zestial has about two scenes in season 2 and it’s still better executed than whatever is up with Chaggie.
>>151659570Maybe that’s the point. Hell acts all pissy because they don’t want to repent and Lilith is there to push them to the extreme about it.
Why does Alastor have lame powers if hes a radio demon? Le spooky shadows oohh so scary
>>151659664Might be cool. Would be nice to see Charlie fight against her mother. Her cuck dad would probably just sit on the sidelines too since he's apparently a massive simp for Lilith, even after nearly a decade of estrangement. That being said, according to Charlie Lilith was all for non-violent resistance (whatever that means in this context.)
>>151659689I think he got those powers from Cain/Zestial. Because of the lime green.
>>151659689I wonder if that's just his sinner "power" due to his obsession with radio (kind of like how Vox is a walking TV.) Perhaps his true power, the one he pre-ordered from Rosie, is something different.
Anyone daydream about making Velvette their rape toy?
>>151659689as mimzy told us Alastor chose the radio demon name himself. You don't see other people running around calling themselves demons. In fact he never uses the term overlord to describe himself like the others do. He views himself as the classical torturer of hell mythology
>>151659719>expecting the doll demon to have genitalia
>>151659702Lute knows that Eve’s (“Lilith”) entire thing is violence and with the Hazbin hotel essentially pacifying Hell, “Lilith’s” threats to Heaven will deafen, and Heaven will no longer fear Hell enough to keep her in Eden.>Lute: If you want to remain up here. Go down there.
>>151659537Adam has definitely fucked his descendants
>>151659750Velvette can feel sexual pleasure though
>>151659539Cope harder
>>151659759No he didn’t. In Heaven, he had angel chicks fixate on him being the first man akin to a sex toy.It’s messed up.
>>151659752Pacifying? Sera was ready to glass the Pride Ring were it not for Retardmily
>>151659767Did Vivzie confirm this in one of her bizarre schizo bluesky posts or something? Velvette seems fairly asexual like Alastor (in before muh lesbian flag in muh pride merch.)
>>151659779Its boring because theres no conflict, Charlie is a doormat and Vaggie is too reasonable, theres no chemistry socially between them. Vaggie is better with Angel Dust than Charlie ffs.
>>151659793How can a social media goddess not like sex?
>>151659786The orginal plot of season 2 (Lilith season) had sinners that were there for redemption. And Pentious alone would’ve lowered down the need for exterminations.Essentially, everything about Sera in season 2 is dragged out material. And that would apply to Lute too.
>>151659808I like how Vivziepop keeps all the characters with popular straight ships far away from each other. It really helps make the narrative seem consistent.
>>151659808>no conflict This was literally make up sex after a small spat
>>151659808vaggie sucks and they should deport her back to heaven
>>151659856Its not a good conflict. Now Emily and Charlie thats chemistry.
>>151659827Because this show is for FUJOS! And neither Val or Vox would respect a woman who would have sex with them (or men in general I guess)
>>151659870>moving the goal postOk hun
>>151651154It seems to be an organization, they had a table and held meetings during one sequence in S1.
>>151659832Viv’s aversion to het ships always seems weird to me, like everything about her style and writing screams early 2000s tumblr type crowd, with her love of skinny twink men, so you’d expect her to ship her beloved sexy tumblrman Alastor with her totally-not-a-self-insert female main character. But instead she’s a fully embraced modern day type where literally everyone is gay or part of the lgbt crowd in some way, it’s jarring.
>>151659859Is Heaven Mexico now?
Vaggi doodle
>>151659898Vaggie is the problem not Charlie
require more yuri-chad material
>AYO CHARLIE YOU A CRACKER ASS CRACKER>Um Alastor what?>FUCK YOU WITE BITCH
>>151659926If Charlie was a boy, you wouldn’t say this.
>>151659921cute Vagatha
>>151659913I mean Mimzy is the closest Alastor gets to having a relationship so she pretty much did
>>151659521Vaggi never been hotter.
>>151659951Nope Vaggie still makes the ship boring even if her latina booty plaps on Charles BWC
>>151659951I don’t know, even if Charlie was Charles that wouldn’t change the fact that everything about Vaggie’s character revolves around Charlie, she has like no other personality traits or desires beyond being Charlie’s gf.
Why is Vaggie a Latina?
>>151659996Lute has the same thing with Adam. You just hate dykes as much as I do.
>>151659979just noticed charlie is on the right side of the bed at the endsame as vox after he fucks val in front of alastorcharlie the man of the relationship confirmed
Why arent there more fallen angels? Jew lore says alot of angel assholes followed Satans footsteps especially those ones who were addicted to human pussy in ore Noah times.
>>151659921Good job Yoto. What do you think of her character?
>>151660012Her original sinner self was the murdered whore of some taco psycho
>>151659993>BWCBCC
>>151660031Charlie has Azazel in her contacts so presumably there are more. Would be an interesting subplot for an episode, Lucifer takes Vaggi out on a Fallen Angel bonding trip to meet some of the other fallen and welcome her to the group.
>>151659808The problem is Viv really wants the audience to view Chaggie as perfectly supportive and hecking wholesome. Vaggie has the ingredients for an interesting character but that might put her in actual conflict with Charlie. They had to make Vaggie retarded and have to be explicitly told angels can get hurt, even though she's an angel who has gotten hurt, because Vaggie knowing angels' weakness and not divulging it for her own reasons having nothing to do with what Charlie wants would be interesting, but not hecking wholesome. The other characters have their own motivations and aspirations that sometimes bring put them in conflict. Vaggie's aspiration is Charlie.
>>151660048>some taco psychoWell that could have been an interesting twist to have her involved in Angel Dust’s storyline.
>>151660130Plothole Vaggie is supposed to be invulnerable in season 1 since shes an angel
>>151660025Lute independently hates sinners and Adam is just additional motivation to slaughter them. If it was Charlie who died what would Vaggie be doing? We don't really know because everything Vaggie thinks and does is Charlie-centric.
>>151660104What do the Chinese have to do with this?
>>151660035I like her design. I think personality/wise she's just ok. Kinda hurt by having to mostly play off Charlie who's currently my least favorite character. Well maybe bottom 5, she's had good moments here and there.
>>151659648He could have tried but he won't. Japanese fujos can pretend all they want but Vox is too pathetic around Alastor to ever force that. Despite everything, Vox wants Alastor to want it and him and he never will so it'll never happen. And if Alastor said he'd fuck Vox only if he could top, Vox would probably go for it.
Vaggie should be pissed shes in hell because of Lutes bullshit and yearn to come back home. She could use the hotel as a way to show heaven shes not really fallen while humoring Charlie and raping her at the same time.
>>151660114>Would be an interesting subplot for an episode, Lucifer takes Vaggi out on a Fallen Angel bonding trip to meet some of the other fallen and welcome her to the group.This would require Vivz to be interested in developing the relationship between Lucifer and Vaggie, something we have already seen she has no intention of doing, given that Lucifer, even though he knows she is a fallen angel like him, still cares so little about her existence that he cannot remember her name and only remembers her for being Charlie's girlfriend.
>>151660172I'm not sure what you mean. Her origin story includes her getting her eye cut out permanently. She should definitely know, as should Lute and the other exorcists really. They had to be made kind of dumb for the plot to happen a certain way.
>>151660265Lucifer is just being angel racist, hes a seraph so shes nothing to him
Charlie would have more fan investment if she was single at the start even if Chaggie was endgame. Vivzie shot herself in the foot a bit trying to indulge her team who liked the idea of Chaggie and appease people who shit on her for neglecting yuri. Those same people never stopped hating her anyways.
Why doesnt Lute have a new arm? Angels cant regen but sinners can wtf
>>151660265Lucifer’s complete inability to remember the names of his “lessers” could be a very interesting feature of his personality and show how even now he still doesn’t care for sinners and is only putting up with them for Charlie’s sake and would be neat to see that side of him explored more. But nah let’s just have him be silly with his ducks some more.
>>151660265Only the Vees and ships get any relationship development in this show.
>>151660302he knows names just intentionally doesn't use themwhen vaggie asked if he knew who vox was he knew and called him the TV head guy
>>151660213Big Clown C@ck
Why the heck was Charlie hiding during the extermination with Vaggie if Lucifer told Adams stupid ass to never touch her during these exterminations? Also cant the exorcist angels literally sense the angel in Charlie to know shes not a random sinner?
>>151660296Lute’s love and angelic nature isn’t working properly.
>>151660296Only the power of love can regenerate limbs (yes, wings are limbs). This is where Sinner Adam comes in.
>>151660336how was she hiding?She was sitting in front of a giant window reading a bookunless you mean the pilot or something which isn't canon
>>151660340Lute strangely doesn’t grow her arm back even when Adam is there, at least in this mysterious “Live to Live” depiction.
>>151660349No the flashback to when Vaggie got Luted
>>151660336>Also cant the exorcist angels literally sense the angel in Charlie to know shes not a random sinner?Is there any evidence of this? They don't seem to have any supernatural senses.
>>151660399wasn't charlie just walking down an alley?probably to find and help sinners who were hurt during the extermination since she's a bleeding heart softieI didn't really interpret her as hiding
When will the hack develop more of the Pentagram an actual eternal city state?
>>151660386That's a cloud.
>>151660413People think Cain/Zestial made it. Because Cain built the first city in the Bible.
>>151660426I know those are clouds, but the Lute depicted here is missing her halo and still has her robo arm.
>>151660302The sinners part is definitely text already but he generally can't bring himself to care about anyone but his family and in a way that disconnects them from their own relationships. Maybe it's the depression or he willed himself into it after getting hurt enough but his capacity to care is very stunted. Vaggie only matters as she relates to Charlie so Charlie's girlfriend is her most important title, remembering her name isn't important. The Alastor beef and remembering his name is just about Lucifer feeling inadequate in his relationship with Charlie.It's deliberate and showcased but yeah I wouldn't count on any deep dive development for him to get over it. That will clearly be his overarching storyline but it'll probably feel like he just flips a switch and is less of an asshole because Charlie tells him to. Viv keeps insisting on season 3 being the one to watch but seeing is believing and season 2 doesn't give me confidence they'll take him seriously enough to make that development compelling.
>>151660432Its a city with a history older than Rome it should be full of weird shit but Viv is a lazy hack.
>>151660302It's strange that Charlie doesn't seem upset by the fact that even after living with them for over a month, Lucifer still can't remember the names of any of her friends except Alastor. You'd think she'd be mad that he can't even remember her girlfriend's name.
>>151660514Because Charlie is as disconnected as he is over that month.
Why does Charlie not have a simp cult in Hell?
Do you think Lilith/Rosie, on some level, used Alastor to get rid of the old guard Overlords who were getting in the way of her trying to give the lower class Sinners power?
>>151660218I think so as well. I think Vaggie needs an episode to herself so we can explore more of her and flesh her out a bit. Maybe she is sort of homesick, and we could have a song of her actually having a good time in Heaven? Something like that. Who is your favorite?
>>151660514Charlie is not actually emotionally intelligent.
>>151660590I like to imagine she’s got a whole defense force who idolizes her, but it’s all Hellborn. Like it’s clear the Sinners have no respect for the royal family, but I headcanon the Hellborn adore them.
Why wont Viv name her Vagiel?
>>151660666could have named her vegeta, satan
>>151660599Shockingly Angel Dust. Having seen art of the show and Vizzi's stuff for years I was totally primed to hate Angel. He just seemed like he'd be obnoxious. Lo and Behold I care about this whore more than every other character combined. He's had such an interesting development and honestly he has the most fun dynamics out of all the characters in the cast.Nifty's a close 2nd though. She's perfect.
Why the fuck is Sera ok with Lute trapping Vaggie in Hell?
>>151660596Maybe. Maybe not.
>>151660705Alrighty, just checking. I'm not a big fan of his but I can see the appeal. Niffty though? Best Hell Girl.
>>151660731The Exorcists are already fallen. Hell is where they should be at…Lute is screwed by her own birth…
>>151660302I actually like that trait. Most media portrays Lucifer as the ultimate evil but I kind of like that this version of Lucifer simply couldn't give a fuck if you paid him. He's "king of hell" but to him that's like being "King of the trash dump". Your kid can tell you how much they're interested in a thing and you can support them but that doesn't mean you'll suddenly start caring about it.>>151660514Y'know I kind of assumed him being so disconnected and absent was why, as soon as he fucked up once, she kicked him out and turned her back on him. Cuz despite being on better terms they hadn't fully reconciled yet.
Dumb idea, Lute gets help from the Dhorks.
>>151660794is she sorry?
>>151660793The Sins are the monarchs of Hell, Lucifer is more like the god of Hell
>>151660842If she was do you think she'd be going to the Dhorks?
>>151660731Sera doesn't ask too many questions about how Adam and Lute see fit to conduct their grisly business. She only really cares if it somehow affects Heaven.>>151660775Put on a trip already.
>Found Family>Theme of Season 3>Adam was thrown with a pile of girls that had no dad besides him>Sinner Exorcist was spotted in season 1>Masked Adam spotted in season 2 Oh
>>151660904Sera knew what happened after the event passes. Her not caring much about Exorcist deaths or banishments is really suspicious.
>>151660941>Her not caring much about Exorcist deaths or banishments is really suspicious.it is because they are not real natives of heaven and are """"experiments""""
>>151660963Exactly what I think. I’m actually paranoid of Sera since Exoricsts having these demonic traits is completely terrifying to me. And she had to do it on purpose. And the reality that she could twist herself up if she wanted to. It gives me so much Lucifer vibes. You know.
>>151660941Don't know what to tell you. She doesn't really seem to give a fuck that Adam died either. She just filled his position with his son and moved on to her existential crisis over Hell. Her concerns are broad in scope but she doesn't pay too much attention to the specific individuals, except Emily.>>151660963Ugh.
>>151661013> She doesn't really seem to give a fuck that Adam died either. She does, but for different purposes…He knows her secrets the best. And some Adam and Lute art has Adam look at her with a strange expression when Lute is peacefully sleeping by him.In other words, Adam’s death helps her sweep things under the rug and it bothers her when Lute brings him up to Sera. It feels uneasy to watch Sera-Adam scenes under the revelations. Even just by how she interacts with his depictions. It feels so dark and evil.
>>151661085> Adam look at her*(Lute)
