Why did Omniverse feel the need to retcon the Osmosian backstory for Kevin?I know people hated it, but by retconing, all you did was create a massive amount of plot holes.Example, how did Kevin's mom get one of the pieces of the Map of Infinity if Kevin's dad wasn't real and he wasn't a plumber? Not only that, it wasn't just Kevin, Aggregor, and Max that use the term Osomsian, Azmuth, Paradox, and Kybher used it. Did the rooter brain wash them too?
>>151703982Also, removing Kevin's backstory of a kid trying to live up to his dad's legacy sucks.
>>151703982Ben 10 really liked to retcon a lot of stuff from the original series for the worse.
>>151704149that backstory wasn't in OS for a reason. It was fabricated by Servantis between the OS ending and AF
>>151703982They hated UAF.
>>151703982They really wanted you to feel like you were reading a comic book by introducing a ton of retcons.
>>151703982They really just wanted to "fix" the lore, plot holes be damned.
>>151705639They fucked it up more.
>>151703982I don't care about the retconsLet's talk about our favorite aliensI think it's neat how many species we saw in the show, who we know should be in the Omnitrix but Ben never unlocked
>>151707113I like Six-Six and his family
Recently watching AF again, and while I still like it myself, you can really tell this show is from 2008 lmaoNot necessarily a bad thing, but I can understand why the UAF era is kinda hated nowadays.Also, Kevin was really horny for Gwen almost right away, huh? She's like, mildly nice to him, and he just immediately folds.
>>151703982Celestial-sapiens be hitting dat dank weed man
>>151703982I never really liked "everything is aliens" in UAF. Gwen did not need to be part of a race of energy fae aliens, she was fine as a human that does magic. Kevin did not need to be an energy-absorbing alien, he was fine as a human mutant.It's more annoying because they go out of their way to retcon these things to be aliens but simultaneously add things that would have been more fitting BEFORE the retcon, like an entire fucking parallel dimension of magic with wizards and shit, and other actual human mutants like darkstar.OV is far from perfect, specially on a rewatch, and some of the retcons it introduced are on themselves retarded (or complicate way more things than they fix), but I vibe more with their brand of retardation than I do with UAF's.
>>151703982DJW autisim.>>151705570Also this.
>>151708183>and other actual human mutants like darkstar.Oh yeah that fucker, why wasn't HE an alien? They could've easily made him another Osmosian or something.
>>151708452I thought he and the blond kid, the technopath, were Plumbers kids tooI assumed their dads just banged human looking aliens
>Gwen has an older brother named Ken>its implied he's so beloved that Ben names his son after him>never mentioned again after the one episode he was inthe Tennyson family is weird, like don't get me started on the cousin Sunny.
>>151708538Don't forget cousin Lucy
>>151708510I find it funny how casually Kevin just confirmed the Plumbers were constantly fucking aliens and having kids in the third AF episode.Like, of course they would fuck aliens, naturally occurring human-alien hybrids makes complete sense.>>151708538After watching the OS finale again, I really want to know more about Ben's parents Sandra and Carl in particular.Like, I know the main Tennysons are just Ben, Gwen, and Max, but the implication that Max was kind of a distant father to Carl made me really curious about him and their relationship.
>>151708574>Max told Ben their race is called sludgepuppies>turns out this is a horrific slur in-universeYet Lucy doesn't seem to mind being called that, girl is a freak.
>>151707113Big fan of Loboans. Sci fi werewolves with sonic howls are, and always will be, fucking sick
>>151708695>Sci fi werewolves with sonic howlsIs that a common trope?
>>151708760only sci-fi werewolf I can think of is the one from Star CommandAnd I don't think he had a sonic howl
>>151708669She gives her family the S pass.
This reminds me...how is Scott Adams doing? He was given just some months to live...in May...
>>151703982>Did the rooter brain wash them too?Rooter brainwashed the whole universe, it was the biggest gaslighting scheme ever.Alternatively, it was an extreme case of manipulated mass hysteria.
>>151707705Kevin is literally doing what any anon here would have done, if he can't beat Ben might as well beat his cousins pussy.
>>151703982DJW wanted himself to be the sole authority on Ben 10 so he was getting rid of anything he didn't like. How did an artist get so much power over a franchise? Who the fuck knows. I just ignore Omniverse
>>151707705>I can understand why the UAF era is kinda hated nowadays.Folks that quit at Omniverse kinda left the fandom, and the ones who stayed already hated the UAF era or started with OV. You have a selection bias here
>>151709438 I only checked out of back right before the reboot. People really seem to forget just how hated the art style swap at the time. Replacing Gwen and Kevin certainty didn't help and it's pretty clear they back tracked later on with the two showing up a few times every season.Personally out of all of them I feel the OS aged the worst.
>>151709438Maybe, that would imply that there's a silent group of casual UAF fans.
>>151707113>how many species we saw in the show, who we know should be in the Omnitrix but Ben never unlockedMost of the aliens feature throughout the series DNAs are all more than likely in the Omnitrix, Ben has the completed Omnitrix, it wouldn't make sense for certain Aliens to still remain locked until Ben end up randomly unlocking them by chance.The closest you're gonna get to seeing any of Transformations is through fanarts done by the Ink Tank on the Ben 10 5 Years Later Playlist.
I like agreggor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuI0YxR4QTE
>>151710911Soul
>>151708538Its defintely weird.>>151709419Late stage OV had no plans and four different conflicting visions fo rthe show, and wasnt selling toys enough so they kinda did whatever. So DJW got more influence than he would have gotten in tfa.>>151709767UA was the show that did the best in terms of merch, and asking outside of ben 10 circles tends to show that.>>151707705AF is still popular, its UA that gets the hate.
>>151709497Kinda? It's the least talked about ironically enough.
>Why did Omniverse feel the need to retcon the Osmosian backstory for Kevin?because DJW went full retarded and wanted to pander OS fans even the nonsense stuff like pic relatedSame with the fact Ben 10k was an AU
>>151711211It's a side effect of not really having any character development in the OS. Ben and Gwen are largely the same character they start off as.
>>151703982I wrote that one greentext father's day episode to try to fix it.
>>151709419Clearly DJW was more than just an artist, both Wikipedia and the Ben 10 Wiki credit him as a showrunner.It's weird, cause every time I hear about a story decision from OV, it's usually "DJW said" or "DJW wanted" or "DJW's intention was".Obviously he wasn't the only guy making decisions, but it sure seemed like he was the face of the show.>>151711161>AF is still popular, its UA that gets the hate.Ehh, I feel like most people just lump AF and UA together when talking about them, from what I've heard they were basically the same show split in two or something.>>151711409>Same with the fact Ben 10k was an AUTo be fair, I feel like most people would go out of their way to make their favorite AU canon if they had any control of a franchise that they liked.>>151712083Would you mind sharing it again?
>>151712327Find it kind of ironic that a lot of the change backs received lukewarm reception at best and downright condemnation at worst. Ben/Kai MAYBE breaks into stop 5 ship for Ben
>>151712327>Would you mind sharing it again?
>>151710609He’s ok. Kinda basic but he gets the job done as a villain
Also, clearly they forgot Aggregor existed when they made this retcon because he's not mentioned in this arc and it's was DJW tumblr that explained it away.
Julie and Ben breaking up in Omniverse was kinda a deal breaker for me.
I’ve lately grown to think that as much as I like his artstyle, DJW really shouldn’t not had as much influence as he did. Man’s built for giving a show a nice look, not on deciding the story that it takes. Especially if said retcons make some stuff look even more retarded.like seriously, is it that hard to buy that some aliens fucked a few humans to have hybrid kids? why make them test tube babies? It’s fucking stupid
>>151713293I was fine with it because it led to the harem.
Kevin should've stayed as a villian. He could've been Ben 10's Bizarro instead of Albedo, who I felt was too one dimensional of a character.
>>151713293Most bullshit reason as to why Julie broke is >>151711409. Breaking up Julie for Kai just because of an A.U., along with creator notes that Julie and Ben's relationship limited their creativity.
>>151713319Kevin should have been redeemed in the OS, he's vastly more interesting as an anti hero than as a villain and less of a one note character.
>>151708183I never really questioned Kevin's Osmosian backstory since the OS never really explained what his deal was.I guess it was technically a retcon, but not one that went against anything they said about Kevin in the OS, which again, wasn't anything, his powers just went unexplained.That lack of explanation probably meant we were supposed to assume he was just another mutant like the many ones we already saw, but like, if you have mutants in a series about aliens, I feel like at least some of those are gonna have aliens involved in their creation one way or another, specially if you're gonna have a secret organization that has been fighting them for who knows how long.If aliens are gonna be part of the human history of your world, and you have weird people with looks and abilities that some would call alien, it makes complete sense to link at least some of that.
>>151713411It should’ve been after he mutated because think of the shenanigans
>>151713319Even as a kid I thought Kevin was treated too harshly in the original series.Like, he was an 11 year old thrown into the hell dimension along with Space Hitler and other horrible criminals, that felt a bit too harsh lmaoI would've kept him on Earth, having escaped from the Null Void at the last minute, but losing his powers somehow, no more power absorption, no more mutation, no nothing, that'd be his punishment.How? I dunno, they were still just making shit up and adding random functions to the watch back then, so let's say he tries to steal power from Ben's newer aliens like Cannonbolt and Wildvine, but it backfires and the Omnitrix instead detects his mutant DNA, and fixes it, leaving him as a normal human.
>>151714060>Kevin has to sleep with his Heatblast arm hanging out so he doesn’t accidentally light the RV on fire
>>151708574Who could!
>>151703982Could he beat Battle Beast in a fight?
In DJW attempts to fix the timeline, he fucked it up even further.During the rooters arc, it said that Jonsey, the heatblast kid from UAF, was an orphan that Servantis found and he was introduced to Kevin and the the Plumpers Kids. They also met Ben and Gwen when they were 11, but they didn't recognize them, which explains Ben and Gwen meeting him in AF. The following up,it turns out Jonsey lived in Ben's neighborhood, was friends with Ben, and he, along with Ben and Gwen, met Kevin before the Rooters are. They also learned Kevin could absorb minerals before AF.
>>151703982I'm more annoyed that they retconned the plumber kids being mutated human kids instead of hybrids.
>>151714838The Ultimate Rath vs Battle Beast fight would be so fucking cool
>>151714910I think you're confusedhttps://ben10.fandom.com/wiki/JonesyI don't see anything that says Jonesy was also Alan AlbrightDid you assume they were the same person because they're both black?
>>151715083oh, I'm an idiot. You're right
>>151713293Them breaking up wouldn't be bad per say, but damn if the way they did it in OV wasn't awful. It would've been less insulting if they just had Ben offhandedly mention they broke up so she can focus on her tennis career.
>>151714049>OS never really explained what his deal wasOS is surprisingly pretty vague about alot of things aside from Max's past and the Omnitrix, and even with those 2 it's really not as explored as often as people think they are.
>>151708760>>151708802Oh I was just breaking down Blitzwolfer into his base essentials of why I think he’s cool. But I do like in science fiction has werewolf themed aliens or creatures like the Shistavanen’s from Star Wars, the Lycan’s from Roswell Conspiracies, and even that werewolf from that one Doctor Who episode
>>151714937Classic shirt and the UAF jacket is a bit much you think? One or the other imo
>>151713293To be fair we saw the groundwork for them breaking up in UA. Honestly it felt like the writing team of Ultimate Alien was split, there was one half trying to break them up by making Ben a bad boyfriend while the other half really was trying to make them work as a couple.
why is people pretending they liked this bitch?
>>151716768Because Kai is worse, simple as that really.
>>151716768She actually wasn't bad in AF.
>>151716768I liked her dog.
>>151716768Pretty privilege, she's cute.Also, like many things in Ben 10, people like them more for their potential rather than their execution.
>>151717340bitch has an alien that can turn into any machine in the universe, and is more interested in playing tennis.
>>151712327DJW was involved at the start of story meetings. But he was mostly suggesting stuff, and there was still charlotte/matt wayne and youngberg who were also all super involved. But after a certain point you can tell he's the guy pushing for certain stuffThe season 1 malware plot was made by dwayne, its actually still visible on his take on OV in the series bible. The biggest difference is that rook (under a different name) was a traitor (who probably would have been redeemed) and that the predatrix was used by the hunter, rather than his dog.>>151711409Apparently he wanted ben x attea, but did kai due to the ben10k thing.
>>151717590It seems unreasonable to make her abandon everything else she likes because of Ship.
>>151717874Traitor Rook sounds lame imo. Glad they didn’t go that direction
>>151717878Know what is unreasonable? wasting your time on normalfag shit when the universe could be yours. Say whatever you want about Omniverse, at least it didn't make Ben abandon the most powerful item in the universe just to play football soccer.
>>151704149>Kevin's backstory of a kid trying to live up to his dad's legacy sucks.Kid Kevin was a criminal and a maniac who would go on rampages and try to kill Civilians for fun.
>>151717874>Apparently he wanted ben x atteaThat would've been fucking crazy.>>151718371The human mind clearly yearns for ball games.
>>151704149Tbh, AF redeeming Kevin on the first episode was dumb too. Dude was a lil' psycho in the OG.
>>151704800>that backstory wasn't in OS for a reasonThe reason was that OS Kevin was an actual evil psychopath, they didn't want him to have any kind of sympathetic backstory since they were gonna throw him into the Null Void and treat him as still irredeemably evil 30 years later.All we got for a backstory was him saying that his folks didn't want a freak for a son, which could easily be explained as him just lying to cope/save face.AF was when they decided that Kevin could actually work as an ally, so they decided to actually give him a more traditional tragic backstory.>>151718820To be fair, I think that could be explained as him mellowing out with age somewhat, growing out of his evil childish ways for a still selfish but not as outright evil attitude.Still, they probably could've found a way to make his redemption work better instead of just>Well, I'm horny for Gwen and this plumber guy saved me so guess I'm good now
>>151718956Wasn't it explained that absorbing energy made him crazy, so he started to absorb matter instead?
>>151718820I like good Kevin more.
>>151707113I still think it's bullshit that Celestialsapiens have DNA in the watchBut Anodites don't?
>>151719075>erm, actually he was just a poor mentally-ill boy all alone on the streetsI remember something like that, it's kind of a cop-out but also probably the best way to somewhat absolve him of his more evil and murderous tendencies from the OS.The unintended consequences of that is that they basically had to ditch his powers from the OS, and they couldn't use them again without him going evil again.
>>151720308>OS Kevin>HeroThrow that little demon into the Null Void.
>>151720342It is bullshit. Just say Ben doesn’t use the Anodite transformation because “That’s Gwen’s thing I don’t want to steal her thunder”
>>151720080Most people do, turning him good has made him one of the most popular characters.I don't think we can ever go back to a completely evil Kevin again, even the reboot apparently made him just an edgy rival instead of an outright villain.>>151720342Azmuth forgor
>>151720845She just needs a positive role model like Max
>>151720929Even the chaquetrix comic did, even the gwen crush thing.
>>151703982regarding the whole Kevin backstory issue, I had a somewhat similar idea to >>151713226 though in a slightly different direction, to quote myself from a thread a couple years ago;I've said this before but if the original continuity is ever revisited they should just retcon that retcon of a retcon with yet more retcons, just get downright meta with it all, my rough idea on it;>the Rooters are revealed to have themselves been manipulated, with their supposed plot of using Kevin's mutant abilities to create human/alien hybrids to be itself a falsehood>the original UAF alien hybrids origins for everyone is restored to being the canon one>however Devin Levin was never a Plumber, in fact he never actually existed in the first place>Kevin's entire existence is an artificial one>created by the True Osmosians>the Osmosians once were one of the dominant species of the universe but they lost a war against the Celestialsapiens and were retconned out of reality itself>they've been trying to come back ever since and created both Kevin and Aggregor to facilitate their return through different avenues(Kevin was supposed to introduce Osmosian genetics into the Human genepool to eventually allow the Osmosians to overwrite humanity with themselves, while Aggregor's whole "absorb a baby Celestialsapien" plot was an alternate plan to bring them back)>and yes this is all intended to get incredibly meta and confusing
>>151707113>favorite aliensGalvanic MechamorphsPolymorphsProtostsLenopansLimaxes
>>151717878>you are given a magic lamp so it's unreasonable to use it on yourself
>>151721000Oh, almost forgot Lewodans.
>>151721000Big goo fan I see
>>151720885Just make it something he hasn't unlocked yetAnd even if he does, make it something he has difficulty controlling because he doesn't have Gwen's intuitive talent for mana manipulation
>>151720389I mean that is literally what they went with at the end of the day.
I don't mind fusions but I wish they were more substantial rather than haphazard elements of each alien stitched together, they felt too fanmade In fact if there was a new series in the main continuity I would've wanted fusion aliens to be the default, first half of the series is just unlocking the most wanted ones we still don't have (High-Breed, Lenopan, etc), and second half is fusing all of them (and in turn they become the new default transformations), and no BiOmnitrix because it's dumb I'd go with them looking similar to each other first and similar powerset second
>>151721572Do you have any ideas for cohesive fusions that wouldn’t just be two guys smushed together?
>>151721751I think isolating them into physical categories is a good start, Humongosaur and Astrodactyl are both dinos so a fusion of them works well (I'd through even Kickin Hawk here too), they would make an almost dragon, another one is Rath and Fasttrack who are both felines (together with a Revonnagander transformation?). Pesky Dust, Big Chill, and a hypothetical High-Breed transformation would also make a great fusion as they all have these moth/butterfly wings. Some others I thought before >Ripjaws + Walkatrout (fishes)>Wildmutt + Blitzwolfer (canines)>Spidermonkey + Shocksquatch (primates)>Heatblast + Diamond Head + Chromastone (rocks)So on and so forth
>>151721572/weird. I remember playing a flash game as a kid where you could combine various aliens, but the one I see listed online DNA Lab was support for a toyline I never had, it must have been a different one.
>>151721919Is it this one? Not the game but it does have every fusion they had as images https://ben10.fandom.com/wiki/DNA_Lab/Gallery
>>151721949I don't think so because I remember you could fiddle with colors of parts.
I wonder if the new comic will give Vilgax any depth.
>>151721917Interesting and I do like the idea. So since it’s not a Biomnitrix is it just the Omnitrix with a glitch or something? Or is it a built in feature
>>151722338I didn't think of the specifics of it, it could just be a run of the mill thing, but I think it being more dramatic would make more sense, I think an accidental upgrade that is almost magic-like, it's not a feature built in the device or a new version of the Omnitrix, the device simply developed it itself because Ben needed a solution to a problem (I'm think a planetary war that he needs to stop and the first fusion is between the two species of said planet), maybe you can tie in Ben's Anodite heritage causing the Omnitrix to "hear" what his heart needed the most at the moment So I guess it's a glitch turned feature, the Omnitrix fully becoming Ben's and not Azmuth's
>>151722319They could always do something with Vilgaxia.>Rumored to have a warrior son being raised in another dimensionNow that's something I'd like to see.
>>151721572I've already said I'm not a fan of fusions in general, imo they take away from the singular aliens, and the original episode where they appeared the lesson was basically "mixing aliens just gives you weakened versions of their abilities that just aren't worth using".They look cool from a design standpoint, but that's all I'm willing to give them, I'd rather have more new aliens over fusions any day.
>>151713226>>151720996Great stuff, I'm love anything that tries to make multiple pieces of contradicting canon work together.I'm particularly a fan of the idea of Celestialsapiens retconning Osmosians out of reality.
>>151722854UAF Vilgax should’ve been his upstart son trying to live up to his Dad’s legacy
>>151722509Pretty cool ngl I appreciate the thought you’ve put into it
>>151722960>Great stuff, I'm love anything that tries to make multiple pieces of contradicting canon work together.>I'm particularly a fan of the idea of Celestialsapiens retconning Osmosians out of reality.yeah UAF brought some Doctor Who aspects to the franchise(Professor Paradox's debut episode is a strong contender for Alien Force's best episode and is definitely in the top 10 for the franchise as a whole) and my take on the "True Osmosians" definitely leans in that direction
>>151723427Thanks! I honestly have a bunch of ideas for a 4th series, Albedo redemption arc because he is sick due to messing with his own DNA too much, (good) Forever Knights resurrection and "taking over" the world to prepare Earth against alien threats instead of relying on the Plumbers, among other things
>>151720996I fuck with this especially the Celestialsapien’s being petty enough to delete a whole species out of reality
>>151723761Any other
>>151723761Ah hell yeah I love an Albedo redemption. I’d be down to hear your plans on his arc
>>151712327While they are grouped, and are seen as the same show, the reality is that AF is still pretty popular, and is either the second or third most popular iteration of the show. And>4 of its aliens are used by prime-reboot ben, 3 as main transofrmations, while four others show up>Alien force ben gets the most to do in the reboot special, as well as two transformations>alien x is made the central thing of the special, as well as most discussed outside of the fandom.>in general the alien force 10 being the second most popular set of aliens>kevin being more popular as an anti-hero/ally/having a crush on gwen going into the reboot>julie is ben's most popular love intrest still >albedo is still ben's second/third most popular villain>the highbreed are the most popular enemy factionProbably other stuff im forgetting.If you count ua, it should be said the ultimates are still the most popular of the many gimmicks. And that its the last thing ben 10 thing that got full merch last year. But comparatively its had way less longterm influence in the franchise.
>>151720996I'm sorry; but aside from bringing up Celestialsapiens, how is it similar? My idea is to have an in-universe retcon and never acknowledging what is the real canon. I guess that I would add a line from Serena & Bellicus commenting that even they think that it is contrived and confusing.
>>151724823There was this plot after a major season finale where Ben is pushed to take a break from saving the universe and he just does some small things on Earth, he starts working with the Forever Knights and he slowly starts to relax more after such a grueling event in the last season, it also would focus on him reconnecting with his roots so there would be a decent amount of Tennyson family episodes, I also thought of him fusing a (nerfed) Ascalon with his Omnitrix to make the aliens more "knightly" with course damage and defense boosts
>>151725016both of our ideas revolve around getting meta about how confusing the whole Mutant/Osmosian/Rooter situation is regarding Kevin, mine admittedly does attempt to actually clarify the situation somewhat rather than leaving things as vague as yours does, mine's also probably a tad more serious in nature while yours is more on the comedy side of things
>>151724860He ends up being fred during another villain's rampage, maybe even in a Negative 10 3.0, and his core is fixed so he starts synchronizing with Ben again (so that is how he is aged up physically and not 11 year old Ben anymore), his sanity has deteriorated and is acting almost rabid, his frustrations and pain are more apparent, so his vibe this time is less villain with huge ego and more like a very broken guy who has lost so much and just wants to end his misery already, focusing it on taking revenge Due to this Ben starts feeling bad for him again, seemingly unable to properly face him, a feeling of guilt increasing with every battle, trying to reason with him but it doesn't workAlbedo starts messing even more with his Ultimatrix to make his aliens even stronger, however, this leads to his DNA being so destabilized and broken he starts dying, easy to hide at first, but in his final battle with Ben, while he lays on the ground defeated, he starts violently coughing blood in amidst his screams of anger, Ben runs to him immediately while Albedo passes out, bringing him to medical care Azmuth is called, and he explains the problem, but there is still one solution: The Omnitrix's DNA repair function. The only problem? If done, it will lock Albedo permanently as a human, the last thing he ever wanted. Albedo wakes up and Ben explains it to him Albedo is not angry, nor sad, not even disappointed, he has nothing left in him, so he simply... resigns, years of frustration, anger, pain, loneliness, all for nothing, and in turn this makes him feel... relieved, he no longer has to cling to that hope, he can let go, and he tells Ben to do it, with a bitter smile Ben is apologizing profusely, almost on the verge of tears, but Albedo shuts him saying it's not like him to feel so emotional, and the DNA repair is activated (1/2)
>>151724860>>151725409Ben manages to get Albedo on parole instead of jail, and exiled on Earth until the end of his sentence From there his proper redemption starts, since he has nothing left to fight for he is kinda lost, his connection with Ben grows as he is the only one who visits him in medical, and so Ben later helps him settle on Earth after he is discharged and they slowly become good friends, he becomes a support character from then on, forming connections with Ben's other friends, and finally joining the reformed New Forever Knights to help keep his new home on Earth safe I think besides Ben he would strike well with Kevin, as both are reformed villains and Ben's counterparts at that, Kevin definitely would understand him and what he is going through, Eunice who took his place as Azmuth's assistant would eventually visit him, and they would talk about their shared experiences under him and form a sorta siblingship. Finally I think after he reforms well enough, he ends up teaming with Charmcaster due to some shenanigans that they need to survive and/or help the heroes together (common enemy type of deal), and as a demonstration of his growth, he would offer advice and his perspective, he is way less preachy about it, but he manages to get through her that holding on this path isn't worth it, starting Charmcaster's redemption too, coming full circleIt's nothing fancy but I enjoyed what I thought out, it's definitely way more graphic and angsty than the current age rating for the show but I feel it would be harder to get across if this was more "child-friendly"(2/2)
>>151725455A little bonus, in terms of how he would now fight, he lost his ability to transform and the Ultimatrix is gone forever, so personally he has to rely on physical combat, maybe he has a really cool weapon And although I love Zed with Kevin, I feel it would make more sense for her to go to Albedo, maybe after his and Kevin's many talks she wants to go with him and Kevin lets her, to Albedo's hesitancy. You retrieve the Nemetrix to give back to her and that is how he would fight, weapon + super powered alien dog
>>151703982Only reason Kevin even became good was because no one wanted to use Cooper from the original sequel pitch as the third kid, and made him a fat nerd instead.
>>151725586Good, Kevin makes for a more interesting dynamic.
>>151724916Not related to anything you said, but I really like how Reboot Humongousaur looks.The old design just feels naked in comparison without those spikes.
>>151721572Its actually a Captain Mar-Vell reference, so I'll allow it.
>>151725586>from the original sequel pitchThere was a original sequel pitch?
>>151724860 That could well have happened when he had his epiphany upon receiving Azmuth's brain.
>>151725586> and made him a fat nerd instead.And yet episode laters he was turned into a gigachad.
....
>>151725586Cooper didnt exist back when alien force was pitched anon.
>>151728502>Tfw people shit on you for being a power repeater but there’s three heat based guys and a fuck you amount of electric guys
>>151728814He was in the last season of OS.
>>151729043The last season made after alien force was already pitched/was in the works. And that SOTO was meant to be the OS series finale.The last episode of season 4 of os and the first episode of AF s1 were released within a day anon.
>>151722319>giant squid formI forgot about that. That was just really weird.
>>151729859That would just make the destruction start elsewhere, but they would die anyway
>>151729859He and Cannonbolt were so sexy they used them for Alien Force.
>>151730620Canonbolt shows up in all hte shows.
Do you think Ben has jerked off while transformed?
Why wasn't Kevin just allowed to be a villain?
>>151703982uaf era was so bland with "its all alien". ben 10 universe was a lot more diversive before dwayne mcduffy came. we had mutants, wizards, aliens that didnt looked lazy or like animals see early blitzwolfer designs, many of them were more werewolf-shaped, rather than to be an actual werewolf and i wont lie that i hated kevin being an alien. mutant kevin fits much more into freaky aesthetics os had
>>151725409>>151725455This is great man, again, very well thought out. Albedo is tied with Ben as my favorite character so seeing him get a break is always nice. Coincidentally this and my AU of a redeemed Albedo have some similaritiesPost Maglax episode Albedo actually thinks about his actions and goes to Azmuth pleading for a second chance and at least giving him the older human body. Azmuth does that, locks away his abilities, and then taking him to earth where Ben is in charge of him till he thinks Albedo can be trustedNeither of them at first like it but they actually find common ground like their love of chili fries and turning into aliens. I thought of like a scene where he helps save civilians and it clicks with him that “Oh I actually like being a good guy and helping people”Then he, like your idea, becomes a supporting character. Primarily working at the Plumber base with Blukic and Driba. He also keeps his powers and especially his UltimatesHe doesn’t really go on adventures but it’s not out of the question for him. Him and Ben also become good natured rivals and spar using their aliens. Also he kinda becomes like a “Back Up Ben” if that makes sense. If Ben’s out of commission he can step up as the shapeshifting hero. I like to think of Albedo as The Superior Spider-Man to Ben’s Amazing Spider-Man
>>151732254When it comes to other characters I think his closest one is with Azmuth. Apologizing and reconnecting was good for them. Azmuth will make semi regular check ins on Earth where they catch upHe also becomes the straight man to Blukic and Driba’s comedy routine. They frustrate him but he likes having other Galvans around.Also speaking of which. He’s stuck in the human body. He’s grown used to it and has accepted it for the most part.I think he’d get along with Rook and their shared alien status. They’ll sometimes talk about how weird earth and humans can be and Albedo finds Rook’s culture fascinatingHe also connects with Kevin for a lot of the same reasons you brought up. Kevin likes to call him “Player 2” as a nickname. Him and Gwen get along fine as the “smart ones”Also again a funny coincidence. He doesn’t just team up with Charmcaster in my AU; they’re in a relationship. Quick summary is she’s going through her own redemption arc (bumming around with Gwen and Kevin while being Hex’s TA). I think they work well together because not only are they white haired rivals to a Tennyson, they fill out a weird niche for each other. They both accept each other for who they are. Albedo isn’t also just using her for her powers and actually remembers her name which is a plus in her book. And he’s never had a girlfriend so he is making an honest effort. He also admires her cunning and her prowess in magic
>>151732041Four-Arms would be great because you can stimulate all of your erogenous parts at the same time
>>151720929Imagine if OV liked the OS a little bit more and decided to retcon Kevin back into a bad guy, wonder how that would've gone.>>151732070It's the usual "popular villain becomes anti-hero" thing, like Venom.>>151732102I for one didn't have a problem with alien Kevin. Sure he was an unexplained mutant in the OS, but with emphasis on unexplained, they never said he WASN'T an alien, so it didn't feel like a retcon, just like they were filling the gaps on his backstory by tying him into the larger universe, and they already established aliens were on Earth and left their mark before, it made sense to me.Also, a lot of the weird OS stuff remained unexplained or without explicit alien origins, ideally we can have both naturally weird things going on, and alien-made threats.
>>151713315>like seriously, is it that hard to buy that some aliens fucked a few humans to have hybrid kids?Dude, you cannot realistically buy Alan out of all of the Plumbers. He's the only one who makes sense as a test tube baby-how can he shift from human to pyronite at will rather than being a full hybrid? And Helen and Pierce's mom... Yeah, one of those two being test subjects works better. One of the siblings and Manny can be the only product of human/alien sex.
>>151732548>He's the only one who makes sense as a test tube baby-how can he shift from human to pyronite at will rather than being a full hybrid?My logic is that there aren't any rules for how alien-human hybrids come out, simple. That just so happens to be the result of a mix of human and pyronite DNA.It's a mix of human and alien DNA, they don't all have to have the same results.
>>151732449My hot take is that even as a kid I thought the universe having mutants/metahumans like a normal superhero universe was weird and didn't fit the setting, I was more interested in the alien stuff.Also, why are they all evil? Surely at least some of them would realize that crime isn't worth it and try being a hero instead, specially with Ben around.
>>151732597>there aren't any rules for how alien-human hybrids come out, simple.No. That's not simple. The other three are understanable, but Alan isn't due to basic logic with what has been shown. B10 Humans are clearly not biologically compatible with magma based beings-before you say Anodites, they're clearly different; they're energy based and clearly can control their physical apperance and bodily temperature, something Pyronites cannot do.Alan's mother/father would have been horribly injured before the sex even started, and the physics of him being carried to term are a logistical nightmare. And the question of "how does he shift back and forth from his default form to pyronite form and having no fixed state" is never answered. He's the only one who would make legitimate sense as a Rooter's experiment.
>>151732749>I thought the universe having mutants/metahumans like a normal superhero universe was weird and didn't fit the setting,...Dude, there were literally mutants before aliens showed up more overtime. Animo's whole shtick? Circus Freaks and Zombozo?
>>151732796>B10 Humans are clearly not biologically compatible with magma based beingsNot with that attitude.>something Pyronites cannot do.Well, that's objectively wrong cause Ben as Heatblast could very much control his temperature, usually by getting hotter.But also, we've seen him touch things without immediately burning them before, surely they can regulate their own temperatures SOMEHOW, otherwise, Heatblast would've constantly burned the ground he walked on or unintentionally given Gwen and Max serious burns just by being near them, it's not as impossible as you're making it sound.>Alan's mother/father would have been horribly injured before the sex even startedI believe Alan's father was the Pyronite, he got a human woman pregnant somehow.>And the question of "how does he shift back and forth from his default form to pyronite form and having no fixed state" is never answered.Again, simply the weird result of Human and Pyronite DNA mixing, it's just what happens.Naturally, those DNAs never mix, but when they do, that happens, again, it's a mix of human and alien DNA, there aren't any actual rules for the result, anything, including the offspring being able to swap between forms, is possible.
>>151732854Literally the first thing we see in the show is aliens, THAT'S what the whole show revolves around, the weird mutants are basically just side quests for Ben to play hero.Also, Animo isn't a mutant, he's a human that manipulates DNA to make mutant animals, I'm specifically talking about the natural mutants like the Circus Freaks or Clancy.
>not a mutant>not an alien>could still beat most big villains under the right circumstancesKNEEL
>>151728502Aww
>>151732972>Well, that's objectively wrong cause Ben as Heatblast could very much control his temperature, usually by getting hotter.>But also, we've seen him touch things without immediately burning them before, surely they can regulate their own temperatures SOMEHOW, otherwise, Heatblast would've constantly burned the ground he walked on or unintentionally given Gwen and Max serious burns just by being near them, it's not as impossible as you're making it sound.Even if one were to suspend disbelief long enough to imagine conception occurring through some undefined mechanism, the idea of a human carrying a Pyronite hybrid fetus to term is irreconcilable with everything shown about Pyronite physiology. Internal temperatures alone (because once the father lets go there's no more restraint holding the reproductive fluid's full thermal energy back) would cause systemic organ failure within minutes, and the metabolic requirements of a magma-based organism would be incompatible with human biology at every stage of development. This is not a “they didn’t explain it” problem; it is a “there is no explanation that fits the rules” problem.>Again, simply the weird result of Human and Pyronite DNA mixing, it's just what happens.>Naturally, those DNAs never mix, but when they do, that happens, again, it's a mix of human and alien DNA, there aren't any actual rules for the result, anything, including the offspring being able to swap between forms, is possible.Alan uniquely oscillates between both states with no fixed default, no visible energy cost, and no internal explanation for how a single organism maintains two mutually exclusive thermodynamic configurations without annihilating itself. For Gwen, it's fine as it can be logically assumed Verdona was in a human form when she was in labor with Frank and Carl; and being an Anodite clearly appears to be a spiritual thing.Just concede. Alan's was the odd one out, and him being the sole experiment works
>>151733476I honestly don't care this much about this argument, so sure, I concede.I still like think it could be possible tho, it technically was canon until the retcon that love found a way for a fire guy to safely impregnate a meat woman.
>>151733026>THAT'S what the whole show revolves around,Are you one of those autists who thinks that just because a show introduces something as the main brand it should always have to focus on that? The show wasn't even about aliens in it's initial concept, so I have no clue why you're getting pent up about there being other threats since non alien threats were always going to be part of it. Limiting anything supernatural to aliens makes things stale.>Also, Animo isn't a mutant, he's a human that manipulates DNA to make mutant animalsLike I said. That's his whole shtick. He creates mutations. There was nothing wrong about mutants or metas in general since they were like half the threats of the beginning of the show (Krakken, Clancy Zombozo and Co, Kevin originally,) way back in season 1.
destroy all aliens is kino
Anyway, let's delve into the franchises true major issues...B10 verse is great for realistic exploration, but it constantly pulls its punches on certain topics. It gestures at complexity—alien immigration, criminality, post-conflict trauma, and even political corruption—but it either oversimplifies them into super kid-friendly resolutions or dodges them entirely by completely villainizing the opposition (Will Harangue) without exploring if any logical arguments exist. The show promotes a utopian vision where alien species are accepted as equals and Earth becomes a mix of galactic cultures. Integration is shown as largely smooth, with any objections being written off as xenophobia, bigotry, or irrational fear. The show rarely deals with:>The economic impact of integrating non-humans.>The cultural and religious clashes that would logically emerge.>Infrastructure not being ready for aliens the size of Humungousaur or as radioactive as NRG (like, how the hell could a Prypiatosian-B live anywhere outside their own homeworld?)>Law enforcement being entirely unequipped to deal with species who can teleport, regenerate, or manipulate minds.>The sheer lack of consent from ALL of humanity at large to even have this integration process done in every nation.This idealism collapses under it's own weight. Whether aliens should be allowed to live on Earth isn't the sole problem—it’s about which aliens SHOULD be allowed. The argument against it wouldn’t necessarily be about any xenophobia but about practical security concerns. There are aliens that, by simply existing, pose too great a risk to function in normal society (Ectonurites, Vaxasaurians, Prypiatosian-Bs, etc). Plus, with that all in mind, it would make Ben 10'000's futures feel... somewhat dystopic in a sense? All countries have disbanded and merged to form one earth government, for whatever reason, and all cultures are no more, as said in a pop up episode of Ben 10'0001.
>>151733820Ben 10 is a series for kids.That's my answer to that.
