>>151740759
Nah it’s really good. I want to fuck Nifty.

I also like Hazbin Hotel. It's a hell of a time! lol!

>>151740801
It's full of bad writing and holes. Charlie is one of the worst protagonists ever. Maybe if they focused less on Gays being Gay and more on her development things would be better. Season 2 is over and she still doesn't realize she is in hell and that the people she wants to redeem are in hell for a reason.

File: Hazbin Hotel S02E07 Weapo(...).png (2.66 MB, 1920x1080)

2.66 MB PNG

>>151740759
ngl I like it

>>151740992
It feels more like the heaven plotlines have more going on.

>>151740992
if you want quality then go to the fanfics.
they often are above the show in quality terms.

>>151740759
If this shit came out at the height of tumblr culture and popularity it would probably have been a colossal cultural phenomenon. It still did very good, but it really feels as if it missed its time by a decade

File: 1764447344170242.jpg (91 KB, 800x800)

91 KB JPG

>>151740759
It's really fucking dumb and if you enjoy it your a nigger faggot

>>151740759
It's zoomer slop, what did you expect?

File: images.jpg (24 KB, 519x385)

24 KB JPG

>>151740759
I..

Agree!

>>151742140
it depends really.
it would have to compete with 2010 shows and be just among them.

File: 1755207815320105.gif (2.28 MB, 315x372)

2.28 MB GIF

>>151740759

The spirit bomb has done immeasurable damage to the state of fiction, it's too clean a narrative shortcut. That ending was dogshit.

Emily should have died in the process of getting rid of the Lazer, it would have sold her message better.

File: Tumblr_l_15324917179724.png (799 KB, 2048x2780)

799 KB PNG

>>151742109

>>151742140
True. But I feel that can be said for a lot of shows. Most things would have probably been more successful pre-streaming

>>151742242
it can still be fixed if emily finds out adam is her dad and always kept watch behind the scenes while making sure she is safe.

There's nothing wrong with the show, it's a fun musical.

>>151742242
I love campy shit like power of frenship and the song was good too.
Also the show never was that strong narratively. Reminder than season 1 ended with Lucifer just solving the conflict and beating Adam up and there not being a single reason he couldn't just have done that all along if Charlie had just asked him to.

I like how they just CareBear stared at the end of the season, something that was never indicated any of the could do before then. Gigantic fucking asspull

File: Screenshot_20251117_13075(...).jpg (187 KB, 488x736)

187 KB JPG

>>151740759
Season 1 was excellent subversive satire
Season 2 was subverted garbage

File: artworks-000555663156-7vp(...).png (246 KB, 500x500)

246 KB PNG

>>151740759
THANK YOU. This and Digital Circus or whatever the fuck are a blight on animation. How the fuck do people like this shit.

>>151742453
Emily made the same shield Sera did midway through the season. The others were just extra magic batteries.

File: Angel Abuse.png (2.06 MB, 1920x1080)

2.06 MB PNG

>>151742460
S2 was great though

>>151742598
Not even at all, but not because the writers didnt have good material to work with. The TV demon teaming up with the jew demon to use the angel demon to attack heaven should have been a great story but they fumbled the delivery.

>>151742460
This.
>heaven is actually evil
>gay/LGBT sinners are actually the good guys
>Lucifer himself saves the day
It was pure subversive kino. S2 meanwhile retconned the whole “heaven is evil” thing and also introduced a bunch of weird toxic gay subplots while also humanizing characters like Valentino.

>>151743788
>retconned
If I learned something from my too long experience on /a/ is that this term used as a "I don't like it" surrogate is a sure way to detect a retard. Here's no different. Jesus fucking Christ, dictionaries are right there if you don't know what a word means

>>151743317
>jew demon
ah nvm you're that schizo

File: IMG_2990.jpg (53 KB, 353x622)

53 KB JPG

>>151742460
>>151743788
Have fun with this bastard child raining on your parade. Happy subversions.

File: 1762934108319.png (1.72 MB, 1920x1080)

1.72 MB PNG

>>151740992
It's like a battle harem or a rom-com: nobody is there for the MC. What she thinks or believes is not important. She's just there to give the characters people care about something to work around. Wasting time developing her instead of the Gays being Gay moments people actually enjoy is the worst thing the show could do.

>>151743788
>heaven is actually evil
>gay/LGBT sinners are actually the good guys
your retarded ass didn't even watch the show, who are you even trying to fool?

>>151744108
In Season 1 almost all of heaven supports the exterminations. The exterminators are explicitly evil and unsympathetic. Meanwhile the largely LGBT residents of the Hotel are portrayed as being objectively good and worthy of redemption. It’s not that hard to understand the social commentary here.

>>151744004
Charlie is basically the story vehicle for Adam, Vox, Eve, and Alastor to use.

>>151742432
Friendship beam/spirit bomb is peak cheesy fun.
I think the real irony is the Spirit bomb has failed as a finishing move the majority of times its been used at this point.

Vox should have won.

>>151740759
>the most godawful piece of shit to ever come into existence
You are either underage or a melodramatic faggot.

>>151744130
>In Season 1 almost all of heaven supports the exterminations.
In Season 1, only 1 person outside the exterminators themselves know about the exterminations.

>>151744223
Don't tell him...

>>151744004
>Gays being Gay moments people actually enjoy
Only mentally ill freaks enjoy homosexual anything.

this show appeal is that every dialogue sounds like an autistic discord server. the main draw is for uatistic faggots 2 b like "wow this is what I sound like irl with my friends" and so only gay autistic faggots watch this shit

File: 1732389709791802.jpg (369 KB, 1280x1280)

369 KB JPG

How hated would season 2 Charlie be by fans if she was a man?

>>151744672
the most hatefully despised being in existence and main femboy icon for most degenerates.

>>151744108
Heaven is not evil but retarded, just like the dumbass writers, and Vivzie of course

>>151742120
well, give us some examples then

>>151742242
Emily is a seraph her jobbing makes no sense, Viv is just a horrible writer

>>151745508
How much do you lift, anon?

File: IMG_2995.jpg (89 KB, 890x890)

89 KB JPG

Emily is going to be a crying fallen angel soon.
I bet it will be Abel that causes it.

File: pomjichokingjaxuka.png (1.91 MB, 1800x2020)

1.91 MB PNG

>>151740759
hazbin hotel is bad because vivzie can't write for shit
that's why the goose has an advantage since a story requires good writing skills, and vivzie has like negative skill

I can't get into it, it just keeps doing that BULLSHIT, where you establish one side character is powerful (Alastard) and then that one acknowledges (sometimes just throats in public) the other dozen faggots. It's terrible writing.

How is it that there's been 30+ of anime dominance in entertainment, where they have the antagonist/evil council member/enemy of the week introduction nailed down to a T and millenial "girl" Viralpoop can't even conceive of not piling on new nobodies that get either throated by previous characters or just being disrespectful to show they're SERIOUS BUSINESS??? It sucks.

>>151742140
The former tumblrinas turned Bluesky crowd hate it most of all.
The best way to appeal to that crowd is by not going out of your way to do so and letting them project a million headcanons. If you directly appeal to them, they'll have a million arbitrary unwritten rules they expect you follow because they're addicted to being offended. Remember the SU fandom?

>>151740992
I think the show just needs to figure out what the hell it wants its thesis around redemption to be.
>"Can a murderer be redeemed?"
>Charlie is le shocked
Jesus mother of fuck, are you telling me Charlie did not consider that redeeming people in hell included murderers? She explicitly mentioned "hatchet wielding maniacs" in the pilot.

File: G8CwAlXbsAAG-G_.jpg (726 KB, 3372x1874)

726 KB JPG

>>151746640
It feels like this show has too many writers who simply don't talk to each other.

What's even the weight of murder in a setting with confirmed afterlife? lmao

>>151740992
>Season 2 is over and she still doesn't realize she is in hell and that the people she wants to redeem are in hell for a reason.
Charlie is hopelessly naive. Its quite telling that the only person in Hell who likes her is actually just an Angel who was left behind during an extermination. Go make friends with actual sinners you fraud.

I don't understand the absolute seethe for this show. I thought it was pretty good. It's very girly, yeah, but Viv has her own vision and it's animated and done pretty well in my opinion. I'd argue it's better than any other cartoon right now. It's the only show that feels like it gives a shit to try anything, it doesn't succeed at every story but it's always entertaining and the characters are interesting.

File: 1763151824950895.png (408 KB, 800x450)

408 KB PNG

>>151746640
Charlie is supposed to be super mega sheltered.

>>151746902
It's popular and also gay and both these things require extra backlash towards an otherwise "fine" series.

>>151746902
>It's very girly
You just answered your own question.

>>151746399
>anime
>they have the antagonist/evil council member/enemy of the week introduction nailed down to a T
lol
lmao even

>>151746918
The gay slut angle is not the problem. You're trying to fit it in there to hide behind it.

>>151746938
I am saying they have it figured out. It's not spectacular, but it's there. Everyone knows how it works, more or less. What does voledrop employ? Does she have any concept of structuring shit at all?

>>151746911
I feel like that only goes so far. Like, we are talking the very simple concept of killing another human being which Charlie already knows about.
If nothing else, she's met Nifty, a character who very clearly has some kind of violence streak and bloodlust.
In the pilot, Charlie's motivations stemmed partially from on some level, having personally seen that the denizens of hell had good in them and her naivety stretched to not knowing the complexity of the human condition and not considering the idea that some people had no true intention of change.

>>151746824
It is so heavy that even failing to prevent the murder of another can get you sent straight to hell.

>>151747217
I don't mean conventional morality slapped onto the mechanics, but actual ethics

>>151746640
what if charlie just assumed Angel's sin was sucking dicks and she was surprised by just how much worse it was?
nah, it's definitely the write-tards

>>151740759
Isn’t it written by a tumblr girl?

>>151747510
That scene has a much worse problem though. The dramatic reveal lasts for all of five seconds before we're immediately spoon fed the fact that Angel's kill was his own abusive father. The show legit could not trust the audience to grapple with the idea that Angel may have been a genuinely bad person before spoonfeeding us the information meant to make us instantly forgive him.

>>151747582
Yeah “abuse” seems to be the ultimate evil according to the audience of shit show. It’s why many of them unironically believe that Valentino is more evil than Alastor, a serial killing cannibal.

File: chillassdemonnigga.png (203 KB, 459x437)

203 KB PNG

>>151740759
>>151740759
im gonna come out and say it, pic related is pretty based

>>151747666
My point was that the character who was literally a fucking gangster during prohibition can't just have done shit that gangsters did during prohibition.
I've heard that would be a recycle of Moxxie but come on. Make him somebody who was down on his luck, pressured into different things, and got caught up in the adrenaline of a firefight.
Fuck, say his abusive boyfriend pressured him if you have to.
Why is a show about sinners in hell seeking redemption playing everything extremely safe? Why is every fucking "redemptive" character written in a way meant to make me say they were never REALLY a bad person to begin with?
What's the actual goddamn point? It's so fucking boring.

>>151747896
He still is a gangster but smuggling substances didn’t send him to hell (since vices like homosexuality and drug use are not sins according to Vivziepop.) His dad is heavily implied to be the only person he actually killed.

>>151747931
>His dad is heavily implied to be the only person he actually killed.
Which is my fucking point. Turf wars, debt collection.
Hell, you know what? Just say that one person he was recovering from alcoholism, he pressures that guy into buying, that guy dies due to a drunken accident. Pressuring someone to relapse Andy Dick style because he was desperate to prove himself to his dad or his superiors or whatever and it ends badly.
Just.. something that would actually require me to hold him to a standard of needing to redeem himself.
But we can't do that because Vivzie doesn't want us thinking badly about spider wooby and doesn't trust us to follow that kind of redemption arc.

>>151748021
So far murder is the only sin that is confirmed to get you sent to hell. I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing since otherwise it makes heaven seem overly harsh and judge-y. Perhaps we will get some more nuance in s3

>>151748021
From a pure writing standpoint it's just better to have one big sin to redeem than a bunch of small stuff.

>>151740759
>This is still the most godawful piece of shit to ever come into existence.
That's not Steven Universe.

>>151748201
I'd agree if not for the fact that we have already been spoonfed the fact that his victim was his abusive father.
Let me sum it up.
In-universe. Redemption is confirmed possible, we're clear on that.
But let's talk theme. It isn't simply that Pentius and Angel didn't commit serious crimes but that their backstories are intrinsically designed to be forgiven from the get-go.
Redemption is canon to the universe but the actual theme is tapdanced around because none of the characters in the hotel are actually presented to us as people who did anything that would let the audience condemn them enough to need redemption.
Like, I'm gonna hedge my bets, Angel's dad is gonna be an unrepentant psycho with little to no good side to him mirroring Valentino. He's gonna be someone the audience won't blame Angel for killing to begin with.

>>151748462
the problem is that if angel's dad is a complete monster, what's there for angel to redeem himself for?

>>151748064
why are you retarded

File: Impni.png (106 KB, 210x322)

106 KB PNG

>>151740801
I want to fuck Impni

>>151748999
Cause Abel and Lute want to murder their own family members too in season 3. Which will cause alot more chaos than it’s worth.

>>151748999
Yes.
Because redemption isn't actually a theme in the show. The show uses "redemption" as a vehicle to portray "confronting past trauma."
You wanna know the key to a good redemption story? Trusting the audience on whether or not to determine if a character has truly been redeemed.
Red Dead 2 didn't hesitate to have a main story mission in which we help a psycho escape a jail cell leading to a shootout and the deaths of multiple civilians. But it put the work in to show us Arthur as a complex man who was trying to be good.
Even a redemption story of a person who simply made a mistake like hitting a person while drunk driving usually goes as far as showing something along the lines of arrogance or negligence which led up to said mistake.
Good redemption stories hinge on letting us condemn a character long enough to root for their development.
Either Vivzie's line is a brilliant misdirection based on assumptions made from previous "bad dads" she's written and Angel's dad has a complexity/nuance we don't know about. Or Angel's backstory is completely weightless as a redemption story because it's a woobification meant to make him as sympathetic as possible with actions the audience won't blame him for to begin with

File: cpa3bv4tb3yf1.jpg (51 KB, 761x436)

51 KB JPG

>should i divorce my wife
>should i kill my wife
>i killed my wife!!
The setup was unfunny to begin with, but #4 was the fucking kicker
>did you know that I killed my wife
It's not even a punch line, he's just repeating the same thing. Is Vivziepop, and her entire Amazon writing team really so fucking dense that they couldn't see the obvious
>man I miss my wife
which would've atleast been worth exhaling from the nose? NO, she just gets him to repeat the same thing from before

>>151744130
I think people are overstating the LGBT aspect of this show. You got a yuri couple that doesn't do anything and an androgynous porn star who represents more of a cautionary tale than anything one should aspire to. Make Angel Dust a woman and Charlie a man and it wouldn't change anything about the story. Just token lip service really.

>>151740759
Some of the songs are catchy, but the writing is so fucking bad Jesus

>>151750060
>did you know that I killed my wife
That isn't what happened though.

>>151740759
Only faggots hate this show because it solidifies the fact everyone knows, all faggots go to hell.

>>151746902
It's like looking at the Frankenstein's monster made from parts of a dozen really cool or cute or useful creatures, and it's somehow moving with all of the most distinctive parts of all of its donors intact yet achieves none of their traits in practice. It's goddamn unnerving, and that draws comment.

>>151751210
what does he say?

>>151740759
I don't understand the hate, but I've never watched a minute of this. Not even clips.
But I'm surprised that there's anything that gets more hate than RWBY or Korra.

>>151750060
Why is this guy married? Its fucking hell its fucking forever, monogamy makes no sense

>>151751195
Not only is the writing bad but the main characters are aggressively unlikable. Like even for a series about Hell. And I really hate how Charlie is failing upwards despite being an extremely stupid whore who is not competent at all. Two seasons worth of Charlie being an idiot and now magically we have to have hope she will get better? No. The writing is trash and the main characters are trash incarnate.

I don't root for neither Charlie or the sinners. The only character I root for is anyone who opposes them and if I couldn't see this show for free I would never bother paying for it. This show is horrible shit and if you surrender cash to see it you are a shit for brains.

File: IMG_3002.jpg (393 KB, 1487x1972)

393 KB JPG

>>151751195
>>151751737
Pretty much the only things I like are Adam, Lute, and Abel. Since they’re the only characters in the show that aren’t unreasonably simping hard for sinners.

>>151746902
90% of the seethe is from pilotfags who are mad that their 5 years' worth of head canon is being slowly dismantled by vivziepop.

>>151740759
music so good it saves everything

>>151751931
>Since they’re the only characters in the show that aren’t unreasonably simping hard for sinners.
>muh sinners
Pentious was in hell because he didn't snitch to the cops about a murder he may have seen while working late at night. I'm sure there are other people who are in hell for less. They aren't all like Alastor or Vox.

>>151748999
They had to insert the whole "his dad was abusive" angel because Angel is one of the most popular characters and therefore can do no wrong. Vivzie spends way too much time interacting with the fandom.

>>151752585
The most popular one is Alastor and she had no problems whatsoever having him threaten to let everyone die over his staff

>>151752625
Alastor was only super popular in the pilot/S1 era (because his official backstory hadn't been established.)

>>151752573
I think a big missed opportunity was not having chunks of hell that are more or less armed compounds full of mostly decent people that have formed militias who are opposed to the both the Overlords and Heaven.

>>151752653
I don't know about that. The hellaverse Hell is like IRL prison. When you first arrive you have to join an existing gang to survive, otherwise everyone will predate on you. I could see pedos creating their own compounds though, since even other sinners probably wouldn't mind using them for target practice, especially since pedophiles in hell would have the bodies of small children.

>>151752651
Yeah, no. Actually, it's true but for Angel. He's way less popular now than in the pilot era

>>151752701
>most popular songs
>most popular pairing
>most character development
>is not going to be a villain in the next arc
Angel came out of S2 looking pretty good. Alastor not so much.

>>151752713
>most popular pairing
No
>most character development
Kek, he was in the season just to be Vox's tool and barely appeared in the finale at all. Fucking Vaggie had a more compelling character arc.
>is not going to be a villain in the next arc
And? The Vees are popular as fuck now, they have more merch than anyone else, Charlie included, and it goes sold out way faster.
Only the song bit may be right, but it has a widely broader appeal than most other songs. I'm pretty sure Gravity is still on top of the season, though.

>>151752713
What are you talking about? If you ask most people, they'll tell you that the second season was carried by Alastor and Vox. I hardly ever see anyone mentioning Angel, except to complain about how he's just used as a punching bag by Viv, or how Charlie is a terrible friend, not to mention that AlastorxLucifer (for some reason I can't explain) and AlastorxVox are more popular than AngelxHusk.

>>151752713
Just looked up the sing along numbers and Brighter is on top

File: huskettes.jpg (359 KB, 1920x1080)

359 KB JPG

I'm not a furry but I'd fuck the huskettes.

>>151752866
>watch helluva boss
>the fujo shit is so unbearably boring in S2 that I can barely finish it
>watch the "girl focused" Hazbin Hotel
>all the gay shit between Vox, Alastor, and Valentino is somehow much more compelling than whatever Vivzie was trying to do is Helluva
Why is this?

>>151740801
Based cyclops onahole enjoyer

>>151753012
The rarest example of corporate hands reining in a toxic creator.

>>151753012
Stolas is a boring character; literally the only thing he's good for is looking pathetic so we feel sorry for him, while Alastor, Vox, and Valentino actually have funny, cool, and even emotional moments. Seeing Vox cry while he's willing to let half the ring die just to wipe the smile off Alastor's face is more interesting than the whole of Helluva.

>>151740759
Gonna have to agree with you on that one. Sad to say I was actually a fan though 2021-2022, but things actually looked more positive then.

>>151744004
The creator said this was a ""female-led show""

>>151753012
They're still allowed to be cool even after being gay, Stolas just became owl sadboi and lost what coolness he had in the early beginning.

>>151740759
it's actually the best animated show of the past decade.

>>151753135
>>151753048
It's almost like the relationship between Stolas and Blitz is based on real gay relationships (since Brandon Rogers, a gay man, is co-writer on most episodes) and therefore more well grounded and less fetishistic while the whole Alastor-Vox-Valentino love/hate triangle is obviously written for straight people who expect gay relationships to be inherently toxic.

>>151753140
That isn't an accomplishment, there was hardly any good animated shows this past decade. Scavengers Reign looked pretty cool but hardly had time to even watch it.

>>151753123
But it is, just look at all the important things the protagonist Charlie did:
>Let her friend's abuser/rapist into the hotel.
>Put Husk's life at risk.
>Make a fool of herself multiple times.
>Be used as a pawn by Alastor.
>Do literally nothing in the final battle other than help sinners out of rubble that can't kill them.

>>151753168
>Stolas and Blitz is based on real gay relationships (since Brandon Rogers, a gay man, is co-writer on most episodes) and therefore more well grounded and less fetishistic
L O fucking L there my dude, Stolitz is a fucking 2000s era fujoshi shark-bait with added "bitchy wife who deserves to be cheated on because she was abusive to the cheating husband" trope added for further drama.

>>151753231
>>Do literally nothing in the final battle other than help sinners out of rubble that can't kill them.
Vivzie is pretty close to retconning the whole "sinners can respawn" thing. I mean technically she never even confirmed it in the first place it's just one of those weird head canon things that people keep repeating.

File: Niffty 7.jpg (260 KB, 935x891)

260 KB JPG

>>151740801
FPBP

>>151753246
Then why would angels need their angelic weapons? Just so they can accidentally kill each other? Wouldn't put it pas Viv honestly though.

>>151753140

I really don't see that claim come around much, even on the reddit. Even just recently, we got TADC, Gaslight District, That one the Owl House show runner's started up, Space King, I think Ongezellig might still be that young, Mall Wizard, Lackadaisy. I mean, HH is up there, and it's certainly got more development behind it, but best?

>>151753231
>Do literally nothing in the final battle other than help sinners out of rubble that can't kill them.
I really don't understand what Viv was thinking when she made her protagonist have nothing to do with the villain's defeat. It was even Emily who first set out to save sinners and try to stop the cannon from exploding.

>>151753246
In first season Velvette said Val tore apart one of her models and she had to put herself back together. It's not really pure headcanon.

>>151753285
i wanna use her fat ass as my pillow when i cry myself to sleep every night

>>151753432
He could have simply torn her apart. Perhaps she is another doll type demon like Velvette. Also that is the only direct reference to the alleged respawning.

>>151753436
I'm more a fan of Niffty being compact but sensitive
Every slight touch is a turn on and she's full stretched out even for someone who's below average

>>151753304
>it's nothing but different flavors of pure shit
Grim.

>>151746640
It's not that she was thinking Oh no how will I redeem a murderer, and more being surprised that Angel's sin was murder instead of something like lust or addiction since those are what she sees most often from him, I don't understand how people misread the scene so hard

>>151742432
He couldn't intervene until Adam went after a Hellborn, it's established that he's the one who cut the deal with Heaven allowing for the exterminations

>>151751611
I regret killing my wife, followed by did you hear I killed my wife? Yeah it was in the news, crazy right a reporter being in the news

>>151753304
I'm sorry but in what world are we pointing to Space King as an apex of animation quality? The sakuga isn't even close

>>151740759
I love gay musicals.

>>151753246
There's no real other way to interpret Vaggie mentioning territorial genocide and Angel Dust being very clear that being in Hell meant he's at no risk from regular violence. There is dying going on, and it doesn't stick.

They're def soft retconning that shit. Zestiel's got a throne of skulls, Alastor's threat to Husk, even Valentino mentions he's 'killed people for less than that' like that means something in literal Hell. We're going to have to act like the Exorcists were scary because they had a friendly fire-only hack from now on, not because they could perma-kill Sinners.

>>151753909
Pretty sure Alastor's true power is the ability to imprison souls and use their power as his own. He doesn't actually permakill souls he uses them to generate power for himself while keeping them from reincarnating or something (thus the radio broadcasts.) Still we've never seen anyone officially die and then reappear.

File: G5AX8T8XQAEfLN9.jpg (39 KB, 720x560)

39 KB JPG

>>151752888
>mfw Vox fan since s1
This feels weird I usually don't get what I want.

>>151740801
based as hell

File: 2BD42AC2226.jpg (251 KB, 1920x1080)

251 KB JPG

>>151754349
>>151752888
Voxfags stay winning. Love TV man

File: Horny Grip.jpg (102 KB, 1200x675)

102 KB JPG

>>151753467
You have no idea how much I want her squealing on my hog.