Joking aside, how the fuck is this movie so fucking good?PS: The new captcha is pure fucking ass.
Well they took the source material seriously and the Henson company is basically a collective of hardcore career artists who take a lot of pride in what they do
puppets are /co/?
>>151831160"It's just the Muppets, it doesn't need to go that hard"Marley and Marley:
>>151831160Caine treats the Muppets as if they were real.
>>151831206>Henson company WAS basically a collective of hardcore career artistsDisney killed the magic they held for years and years.
>>151831160I am just amazed they made the most unsettling representation of the third spirit when compared to every other adapation. It's not disturbing or horrorfying in the conventional sense, but it is an incredibly foreboding and sombre presence. Personally I think they really nailed down the purpose of the christmas yet to come as the Memento Mori to Scrooge's soul. Jim Carrey's Christmas carols version of death is incredibly fire and brimstone, literally trying to put the fear of God into Scrooge, but the Muppet's version doesn't need to do all that. Scrooge's pleading in the muppet version is not fight or flight screaming, it is him weeping into the robes of Death and pleading for redemption in life.
>>151831298Yes and no, theres still some oldheads that work there just like Disney has some but overall yeah Disney is anti artist these days
>>151831254silly puppets that are essentially three-dimensional cartoons made of felt with pingpong ball eyes are /co/serious puppets that are meant to convince you they are flesh-and-blood, with latex skin, real fur, and taxidermy eyes, are /tv/which sadly means The Storyteller is not /co/, but regular Muppets 100% is.>>151831160They stuck real hard to Dickens while actually understanding him and how he wrote, and made sure every change served a purpose.
>>151831321I liked how his robe is unnaturally wrinkly. Like it's made of something's skin. The hood doesn't even seem like a hood, but a grotesque throat. He isn't a reaper wearing a death shroud, he is MADE of death.
>>151831254Animation is /co/, yes
>>151831663ah-ah-stylized computer-generated characters are /co/CG meant to look convincingly realistic, e.g. jurassic park, avatar, or the shitty new lion king (or the excellent old new 101 dalmatians if we're counting cg animals) are not (though in that case being a remake of a cartoon, it is)
Did they ever settle on including that cut song? I remember it was on the VHS when I was a kid but then online versions cut it.
>>151831705i forget.. I remember recently people bitching about itI totally get why it would be removed from some versions since it KINDA DRAGS.. if it were just one verse shorter, or a little faster.. eh.. no, that would ruin the emotion of it. I dunno.Either way, what I want restored is the full version of Marley and Marley. Does it kinda slow down the pacing and slip juuuust over the line into melodramatic? yes. but fuck you it's great and has some amazing Paul Williams wordplay, mixed in with some direct Dickens quotes. IN the song!
While we are talking about the Christmas Carol. Anyone seen this one here?
>>151831321It also helps that they have Gonzo and Rizzo bow out for this part of the tale so it can be played straight. They knew this was no time for jokes.
>>151831762I never knew about that.
>>151831819I really doubt modern Hollywood would be able to exercise that kind of restraint.
>>151831206This is the answer
>>151831282His "act like the muppets are real" is second only to david bowie
>>151831206and in addition to their usual artistic motivation, they had Jim's legacy to live up to. They knew this was gonna decide whether the company can go on without him or not.
>>151831653That's such a cool description.>>151831705>>151831762I mean, the song serves a couple of purposes. It's a theater break and is an emotional crux of Scrooge's character. It sucks that they can't just include it. Stopping the movie just to watch that scene and then going back to the movie ruins the pacing much worse, IMO.
>>151831160This has been and always will be my favorite Muppet movie of all time. It's the most I've watched, and not just every Christmastime either
>>151831160>>151832457I forget the exact quote but Caine stating he would treat the movie with all the gravity and seriousness the story deserved was met by a very thrilled henson company realizing they had the straightest of straight men to work off of. For all the goofy muppet bits they had the good sense to let the dramatic bits be dramatic
>Watch this every year>This guy walks on screen>Have to confirm for the Nth year in a row I have never actually seen him in anything else
>>151831810I watched it once, and I remember liking it.Though the dog companion is totally useless and unnecessary.
>>151832761Isnt he one of the puppeteers?
>>151832604The best part of Caine is that he knows when to funny without being muppety.
>>151831607That's a dumb distinction, puppets are animation.
Because the Muppets add value to the story rather than detract from it.You get this great contrast between Scrooge, who represents everything about the cold and lifeless industrial revolution (modernist reality), and then you have the Muppets who still keep the spirit of Christmas in their heart (romanticism). Lots of productions "take the story seriously", but they fail to create that contrast. Scrooge needs to feel normal but also dead inside, and everyone else needs to be bright and colorful and almost unreal.
>>151832761Skill issue he’s in a lot.https://m.imdb.com/name/nm0533599/?showAllCredits=true
>>151832828>Underworld Rise of the LycansWhy does everyone seem to be in that movie? It's like a Z-Actor class reunion.
>>151831321Huh, you can kinda make out a face in the hood.Granted I doubt it's supposed to be there, probably just a happy accident of the folds.
>>151831270>Your future is a horror story>Your chains are forged By what you say and do>So, have your fun, When life is done>A nightmare waits for you
>>151832828>Skill issue he’s in a lot.Yeah for about 4 minutes per picture
>"Fine fine fine, you go show him the Cratchits for a couple seconds. And then, THE GRAVE!"
>>151833000The dude wants to act but he doesnt want to spend a lot of time doing it
>>151832518fair. it's just such a slow, sleepy song. It's hard not to drift off.>>151832604Some people commented that he seemed a little silly during 'it feels like christmas' but I think that was intentional. Scrooge is delighted in a way he hasn't been in years, but his BODY is out of practice with joy, so it doesn't really know how to dance to the music.>>151832766a dog companion definitely doesn't fit scrooge>>151832791i FELT that 'more of gravy than of grave' line. He felt like he was fighting back against an hallucination by proving his wits were still about him. Then the ghosts heckled his joke.>>151832798these days most live action movies are 90% animation though. do you want them on /co/? it's a logical distinction. One is telling a story with SHAPES, the other is trying to imitate reality.
>>151833073We need a clip of scrooge goving the "gravy grave" line that cuts and drops sunglasses on him + all the other celebratory stock video overlays for epic pwns
>>151831810what a waste of tim curry and michael york.
>>151832761Looks like Sigourney Weavers nephew
>>151833176>what a waste of tim curryIts not even in the bottom 5 of his animated Christmas moviesFor a guy that has so many Iconic roles he was in some real dogshit stuff in the 90s
>>151832869WHO'S THAT POKéMON!??>>151833015I understood this reference.
>>151831254always has been
Here are some extra interviews and behind-the-scenes stuff that were shown on TV:https://youtu.be/L4D5ewjshZohttps://youtu.be/IAqb1ordWEshttps://youtu.be/xji_h2WDL6E
New brand new dice captcha makes no fucking sense, you just need to guess.
>>151833321Maybe he was hoping lightning would strike twice and something else he did would become a cult phenomenon like Rocky Horror.
>>151831206>Henson company is basically a collective of hardcore career artists who take a lot of pride in what they doNot anymore
>>151833895>Timmy my man its your agent, listen i got the next Frankenfurter on my desk right now youll love it its a red hot script with a dynamite cast and a slam dunk, prebaked demographic thatll guarantee a box office smash>They want you to be the voice of The Rat King in The Barbie Nutcracker
>>151833895I don't think culture has enough room for more than one Rocky Horror per like decade, but Curry was still SMASHING in a TON of things past that. Where would Home Alone 2 have been without him? Red Alert 3? Who else could have played Duckman's nemesis King Chicken? Who else could have played Dr. Sevarius? Fuckin-.... without Hexxus, that movie would have been a fucking forgettable snorefest punctiated by robin williams awkwardly rapping
>>151833995au contraire, mon frere.the MUPPETS were bought by disney, but HENSON company still exists and does true art. You see the recent Harriet the Spy show? That was theirs. Lisa Henson was an exec, and so was Will McRobb.
>>151834055>recent Harriet the Spy showNo. What is this?
>>151834091Dude. You are in for a treat.it was on AppleTV so fucking nobody watched it, but it's GOOD.No woke shit (aside from the multiracial cast in an upperclass 1960s new york private school), a lot of period-setting stuff without hitting you over the head with IT'S THE 60s, a SOLID adaptation of the story that... yeah, smooths out some of the rough edges of the original, but makes it so cute and sweet that you don't feel like it's missing anything by not being as edgy as the book. CUTE art style, great performances...
>>151833321>For a guy that has so many Iconic roles he was in some real dogshit stuff in the 90sThis is exactly how guys like him usually end up getting such iconic roles, cause they'll just do fucking anything. Look at Sam Jackson as another example.
>>151834134remember, this is a guy who once said he got fat just so he wouldn't be able to be Frank N. Furter again
>>151834115How do you know its made by hardcore career artists?
>>151831160It's okay. I'm too fond of the TNT version of A Christmas Carol to put anything over it. Only good songs are Scrooge and Marley & Marley.
>>151834156care was put into this thing. real loving care. it's oozing out of the writing and art.While Harriet is trying out different coats, they're all fun obscure wardrobe references...
>>151834134>This is exactly how guys like him usually end up getting such iconic roles, cause they'll just do fucking anything
>>151833015>>151833461It's bugging me that I can't because it's very familiar
>>151834181Neat. Did the Henson company make anything else recently?
>>151833995The prequel Dark Crystal had great puppets
>>151834218uhhhmmmm.. Yes, but I'm forgetting what. But it was something. They're kinda Valve at the moment, they don't just crank out product, they wait til they have good ideas>>151834230oh yeah!!! it got a LITTLE .. y'know, YA here and there, but was overall another masterpiece. Just incredible performances all around
>>151831819>They knew this was no time for jokes.I remember them talking about how, in one of the earlier drafts, each of the ghosts was played by a pre-existing muppet, and the ghost of Christmas future WAS Gonzo. You were only going to be able to see his nose sticking out of the hood. Funny, but I'm glad they changed it.
>>151834218Fraggle Rock reboot and some puppet shit called Slumberkins for Apple+
>>151834276disney doesn't own fraggle rock? That new show had their fingerprints all over it.. buncha gay..
>>151834230>The prequel Dark CrystalOh yeah, that show was all over the board when it first aired.
>>151834579I took too long to find out and/or watch it, I missed the /co/ hype
>>151834230The Skeksis are all time greats where puppetry is concerned.
>>151836478i think they recorded those kinda out of order, because early on Mark Hamill is just doing his own thing only kinda loosely like the original Scientist, but then a few episodes in, he's doing a dead-on impression of the original, and you realize maybe he started that way before branching it out? I know Fraggle Rock filmed way out of order, and that's just how you do it sometimes. But the voiceover too?
>>151831810According to Kmart, this is an anime.
>>151833461>WHO'S THAT POKéMON!??It's Muk!
THERE GOES MR FUCKWITTHERE GOES MR GAY
>>151831160i watched the jim henson disney documentary and not only do they never mention his apprehension of selling to disney they stop to focus on how "henson respected women, but he didn't understand his wife was not going to settle with being a wife. she was a trailblazer. while he'd ask his kids about school at dinner, she thought about WORK."they make hundreds of movies about dads working hard to provide for their family and being demonized for not also constantly being there for their kids but when a woman does it she's praised.
>>151831206This.
>>151832761I think Fred's portrayal is my only true issue with this movie. In the book, the jokes they tell about Scrooge are a lot less personal/cruel and Fred critically isn't the instigator of them. Fred genuinely wanted his Uncle to be happy and I feel as though Muppets made him a little too sharp tongued towards Scrooge in private.
>>151837819If there was a prize for sucking dickThe winnerWould be HIM
My father has an autistic fixation on A Christmas Carol and he have seen every single version of it ever made, most are garbage.He has concocted a theory that Fred received most of Scrooges fathers inheritance and that's why Scrooge hates him.
>>151839921Also rhe biggest mistake people make adapting the story is making Scrooge either way too old or way too evil.He needs to be actually redeemable and have enough life left to give his redemption some weight.
>>151839984>way too oldHe's on track to die the very next year.
>>151840008Only if he doesn't change his ways.Ideally Scrooge is in his mid fifties, old enough to die of pneumonia if not tended to.
>>151840040Besides, the original novella implied that he lived many more years after his change of heart.
>>151840008>He's on track to die the very next year.And by being a slightly better person he ends up living for many more. Hes on track to die because he lives in a freezing, dilapidated townhouse on barely enough cheese and bread to keep himself going. The guy isnt the opulent kind of rich asshole who wants everything good in life for himself. Hes more like those extreme cheapskates from TLC that pick up rice off the sidewalk after weddings and refreeze their pasta water
>>151837877>Disney documentaryThere's your fucking problem. One significant issue about Disney is you very rarely get a good "behind the scenes" anything from them on major IPs because they'll apply gloss to literally everything. RLM talked about it when they compared the behind the scenes on the original trilogy, prequel trilogy, and sequels.The best look we have into the making of the MCU is an unauthorized book which everyone agrees is better than the actual official behind-the-scenes book they released.The quote alone is funny because Henson himself was an infamous workaholic who neglected the shit out of his family according to basically everyone who ever knew them. Japanese mangaka levels of familial neglect in favor of work. So the quote itself is suspect
>>151840076Not to mention that spending more time with other people might make it easier to get lifesaving medical attention if he ends up needing it.
>>151840076Ultimately he doesn't trust people, everybody who had ever showed him any affection either died or abandoned him from his point of view.Money he could control, money he could trust.
>>151831160The new captcha is actually working to stop bots atm so I'd say it's pretty good.
>>151841004Wow, he's literally me!
>>151831160>The new captcha is pure fucking ass.Skill issue
>>151831282But... Muppets ARE real
>>151831206Pretty much. Underneath it all is a lot of respect not just for the source material, who the source material represents (i.e. Dickens' collective work), but also respect for the audience.That they even have a "look, the jokes end here," before the final Ghost shows that.Also Michael Caine was fucking faultless.
>>151831321Also the music.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUqLcx8uywc
>>151841739The music is so good.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzCQGodWwPU>this playing over the snow-covered Dickensian LondonGrime and squalor never looked so comfy.
https://archive.org/details/muppet-christmas-carol-1992-ld-buLaserdisc version, for those in the want.
>>151832604Christmas Carol worked because Caine considered the Muppets his fellow actors.Treasure Island worked because Curry considered himself a fellow Muppet.
>>151839438it was only gentle ribbing. you could hear the love in his voice..
>>151840008wait, the future he's shown is only a year?>>151840076indeed. a lot of people miss that. rich guys were supposed to be supporting like 20 people's jobs by hiring them as servants, meanwhile this guy 'likes darkness because it's cheap'He's going to die with all his money unspent and that is the tragedy because it could be improving lives -now-
>>151842575Yeah. It clearly didn't have malice, but it hurt Scrooge to learn that he isn't just hated, but mocked as well.
>>151831298Jim Henson dying is what killed it.
>>151831160Was Tiny Tim always this...tiny?
>>151831160I remember someone saying that this movie has the most accurate historical costuming in maybe anything. As in, they had the trends down BY THE DECADE, tracking throughout Scrooge's life, taking into account occupation and class.
>>151831705It's currently included on Disney+, but you have to choose "full/theatrical/extended version" (I forget exactly what they called it) from the extras menu, it's not the default version of the movie.
>>151841862Based
>>151842590Yeah. In all the adaptations. Its the very next christmas he dies, alone, and everyone laughs about it.
>>151831705The laserdisc version I linked here: >>151841836 as it.
>>151834264I've heard, at least in one version, it was going to be Animal. I can almost imagine it perfectly...>Scrooge drops to his knees, grabbing at the Spirit's robes>"Please, Spirit, speak to me... Please...">"BYE BYE!">Scrooge wakes up
>>151831160>Joking aside ?
>>151831160I hate captcha too.
>>151841308or updating your extension, which itself was a skill issue for me but i got it
>>151844189It feels like people discovering Muppet Christmas Carol and how good it is has almost become a meme (especially this year).
>>151841836in terms of extended/removed scenes, what's this one sporting?>>151842683good eye, that is a stnank...>>151842763yeah I recall a video like that, which is why I thought Scrooge's death was more distant. I believe that lady said they updated the fashions for the future.>>151843165huh. damn, that's intense. guess it hammers in "this is your LAST chance, you won't get another christmas" and is also why he's so ecstatic at the end to find out it's still christmas.
>An unwanted creature, but not a rat, a leech, or a cockroach?>Why, it's Anoneezer Scrooge!
>>151836784that’s just so they have a better chance of actually selling a copy.
>>151831689You can absolutely talk about the animation used in Jurassic Park on /co/ if you want.You just have to actually talk about the animation.
>>151831607I disagree, but understand what you mean.ive been trying to upload this stupid fucking chart on this retarded website for awhile, fuck it here's a screenshot. google creature vs puppet if the photo isn't readable
>>151831321>Jim Carrey's Christmas carols version of death is incredibly fire and brimstone, literally trying to put the fear of God into ScroogeIts my least favorite part on rewatch. Too much action.
>>151845392>>151845344I don't make the rules.>picturesee this is what i'm talking about, though it's funny they say 'puppets' because they literally don't have the rights to say 'muppet' which is what they mean. creatures ARE puppets, but .. this gets it across.
>>151843165>Its the very next christmas he dies, alone, and everyone laughs about it.One thing that gets me in every adaption is Scrooge needing to be shown like 5 times various scenes of "That poor wretch whose death made so many happy" and hes STILL wondering whose grave it is at the end. I almost imagine he had a good 5 minutes in his head going >Why does this whole city hate Tiny Tim so much? What a bunch of assholes
>>151845866Yeah well depending on how they pmay it either scrooge just doesnt get it because he's so egotistical he's blind to people's hatred of him, or he does understand on an intuitive level and he doesnt want to let himself conciously realize it out of fear.Cain's version is perfect as the latter. He gets it quickly, but he doesnt want it to be him. He keeps asking hoping to be told someone else. When hes at the grave ready to read the name he KNOWS it's him but he's pleading with the spirit to say it's someone else.
>>151845866AhahahahaYeah that's why Muppets did it best. You can tell Scrooge knows what it's about, immediately. he's even like, giving in.. already promising to be good, and uncomplainingly going along with whatever his last lesson will be.. part of him genuinely ready to capitulate, the other part just wanting this to be over because he KNOWS what future he's about to be shown.A man who is going to die inside of a year doesn't have it as any kind of surprise. he knows with each time he gets out of bed and feels like he's already a corpse. Every time he rises from a chair and his blood feels crystalized like that fuckin anime Blood Plus with the competing vampires.. he just really didn't want to see the grave.>>151846192yeah exactly, this guy gets it.
>>151831206This
