Do you ever wonder, why did something as antisocial as keeping a huge secret from your friends and family become such a huge part of the superhero mythos? These characters were created as role models, and them regularly lying to their loved ones was originally supposed to be seen as heroic and admirable for the greater good of not putting them in danger. But in real life, you probably wouldn't want to be friends with someone who regularly vanishes and lies to you. Isn't it weird how something so blatantly antisocial became such a crucial part of the allegedly benevolent power fantasy?I've heard the idea that the trope and its popularity originates from the appeal to Jewish migrants trying to hide that they're Jewish. How true do you think that is?
>>151871898>huge part of superhero mythosNah, the main character having a secret is a very attractive narrative device even beyond the superhero setting, it's free tension/stakes.
Wanting to keep part of your life private isn't antisocial, and I cock an eyebrow whenever someone posits that's the case.
The idea is that revealing your identity is dangerous, thus forcing the hero to carry the burden of heroship aloneMostly though, it's just an excuse to have funny plots where the hero has to have a job, go to school, and balance both lives.
>>151871898It started with the spider, but his closed circle knew of his secrets.
>>151871898Even though i it's never the reason given as to why they do it I find something incredibly appealing about a person that would go out and risk themselves or their well being for the good of others and hide that from everyone else. Like your best work just not being tied to to you or not being willing to take credit for it. This may be the "super" part of the heroism they engage in.
>>151871898don't wonder at all, an IRL superhero would be a 24/7 target of extreme death attempts and god-worship harassment, their loved ones would be doxxed and dead inside of a DAY
>>151871973Why doesn't Japan do it?
>>151872148Which is literally THE whY of Secret identity. It is NOT "cute" or tongue in cheek, it is Superman getting shot by cops despite working For the interests of people and cops (and he never touches them, unlike New52 Truth or Geoff Johns Secret Origins Modern versions) and is FEARED by ALL of the people that meet him for the first time , the Real him, AND he does NOT become spiteful and just continue working FOR the benefit of the System that literally can't Allow him Be (AND The Main kicker is that he is simply a pre-1995 Chris Reeve who happens to be on the planet where everyone else is post-1995 Chris Reeve And they All will become Like him but in the Future, THAT is why he is "man of tomorrow" even when he came from "another planet" instead of 1934 original Clark Kent version ie from the future)>>151871898>These characters were created as role modelswrong, as usual. They are created as a self-insert and as an Honest to God self-insert, That's why wanted by police Batman says "criminals are superstitious and cowardly lot" and names himself after the bat that startled him , That's why AFTER super-senses and Immense Powers upgrade Siegel made Superman Not condemn an innocent man in Superman #25 ONLY by pure luck! And Siegel's Mighty Crusaders is literally Watchmen before Watchmen (or Superfolks, or whatever the fuck). Superheroes Are cool and Also they are adrenaline junkies unless they are like Superman before kryptonite and/or The Spectre.
>>151872389they do though
>>151871898Anonymous vigilante groups were really popular in the early 20th century America. A bunch of them, like the KKK, turned out to be supremacist organizations and lost the favor of the American public.
>>151872389Inuyasha had that story. They had to keep Kagome's wishing well a secret, and when Inuyasha went into the modern world he had to keep his ears and demonic origin a secret. There's also Sailor Moon.Aside from that, Japs write middling stories with phenomenal designs but lackluster plots. Most of their stories involve a character well within the new world already, no real connection to families unless they're children. And, even then, it gets written off as the police and government being capable enough to protect their parents and loved ones (my Hero Academia).
Isn't one of the common superhero plots about how the government wants to nab and yoink all the supers for experimentation or put them on lists Kinda don't want them to know where you work or live
>>151872144I like that too. Also why I always like Peter Parker's origin story being repeated because it shows what happens when you only use your powers for fame and fortune and being a jackoff
>>151872389>>151872534Isn't Kamen Rider usually a random normie who got turned into a cyborg and Ultraman a space guy who landed on earth or something?
>>151872460>>151872460>FOR the benefit of the System that literally can't Allow him Bebut Also he is Major threat to the people's freedom And Action Comics #12 literally ends with him getting ticket in the end as a Clark Kent after he run One Man terror campaign for tighter driving laws, he isn't even 1:1 to his own ideals.Only a completely out-of-context merchandise of Superman is Actually "safe" for kids, or anyone really. It is also for That reason he Never says something as retarded as "I fight for Truth, Justice and the American way" like it was in the first ever deconstruction of Superman ie >>151872144Superman The Movie So yeah, >>151871898Secret Identiy IS anti-social, as is being anonymous vigilante (therefore someone else could use Your credibility for malicious intent like Metalo in Worlds Finest Comics 6 and Metallo 1 in Action Comics 252 literally did.Only reason why superheroes stopped killing occasionally and stopped being chased and friendly fired by cops is because of 1941 censorship. Which also juveniled violence, so that in the Big 2025 there are retards that think that a knockout punch to the head is safer than a gun shot, unlike people in 1930s who did NOT have an access to hundreds life leak videos.
>>151872503>turned out to be supremacist organizations and lost the favor of the American public.Not what actually happened.Americans were Forced to mingle at a literal gun point in the 60s.
>>151872144>appealing about a person that would go out and risk themselves or their well being for the good of others and hide that from everyone elseOnly to egoistical psychopaths who will never do the same
>>151872677Ok /pol/
>>151872460>>151872664We must retvrn to self-insert powerfantasy kino
>>151872677sounds based
>>151872677>Not what actually happened.No what happened was the Grand Whatever raped and murdered his (white) secretary, which killed their PR as "Protectors of White Women's Virtue." and pretty much drove away all the non-feds, though this was well before white people were disallowed from throwing rocks at kids for going to school.
>>151872389But they do?
>>151871898it's for the same reason hannah montana has a civilian identity, so you can pretend you're like that too
>>151871898Have you ever read The Scarlet Pimpernel, the prototype for all superhero stories? essentially, you can't just run around with your real name attached to things where you are confronting mobs, both the mafia-kind and the general public-kind. People will go after those closest to you, and those are far more vulnerable than any fugitive aristocrat or even a bus full of civilians.btw, how'd you feel about the Stonetoss dox?
>>151872734We never left. You have all of it. You are here, you can do this. SUPERMAN
>>151871898You're saying that here, in a place where everyone is hiding behind anonymity, and we consider it stupid attention whoring to so much as adopt a permanent identity by way of tripcode.
>>151872868There are /co/ references.
>>151871898>is a person who draws the ire of megalomaniacal psychos on a regular basis>also knows that some of said psychos have the ability to hypnotize and read minds>but it’s selfish to keep the secret from the people who would be the prime target for someone that would want to hurt them because they know they can’t hurt the person they hate
>>151873037But why did such a fantasy even come to exist? It must reflect some real life desire to keep secrets.
>>151873081It’s not a fantasy, are you unfamiliar with a concept of a nom de guerre? People that fight and do shit where they could draw ire will use a pseudonym to try to ensure that people won’t try to track down their families and friends.
>>151871898You aren't entitled to other people's secrets, faggot. Especially not the secrets of your family members.
>>151872868Came here to post this.
>>151873114There's fuss about ICE agents wearing masks for similar reasons.
>>151872460>AND The Main kicker is that he is simply a pre-1995 Chris Reeve who happens to be on the planet where everyone else is post-1995 Chris Reeve And they All will become Like him but in the Future, THAT is why he is "man of tomorrow" even when he came from "another planet" instead of 1934 original Clark Kent version ie from the future)And he doesn't even know it (especially in post 1938) really (only guesses that Krypton is His planet in K-Metal story, ie where shard of his home planet makes Him weak but Earth people super.
>>151872028Scarlet Pimpernel, bitch
>>151871898>I've heard the idea that the trope and its popularity originates from the appeal to Jewish migrants trying to hide that they're Jewish. How true do you think that is?That's always been my assumption, since superheroes as we know them were invented by Jews
Why don't superheroes just rape their enemies so they won't try shit against their loved ones?
>>151873350Get a load of this guy.
>>151873377Only villains do that. That's a supervillain there.
>>151873350>Golems are the original superheroesJews really can't help themselves
>>151873514You can call him a villain but he rapes constantly and no one's going after his loved ones.
>>151871898Because it's meant to point out the sacrifice of being a hero.When you see Peter being called a coward for running away during a villain attack, knowing well he's going to change into Spider-Man, you're supposed to empathize with him and how he's willing to tarnish his image just to be a hero and do the right thing.Just listen to the opening of the Japanese Spider-Man show and you'll get it.
I'm surprised nobody has pointed out the fundamentally American, pro-democracy aspect of this. Secret identities are an extremely egalitarian because it involves people with incredible amounts of power behaving like ordinary citizens. These people, whether it's Superman or Green Lantern or Spider-Man, have impossible power, really godlike power. They could, in theory, use that power to lord over the weaker masses, to rule us as tyrants. But, instead, when they take their costumes off, they're citizens just like us. They work regular jobs, they pay taxes, they have a love life, they ride public transit.There's the democratic idea of "a hero could be anyone." There's ALSO the democratic idea of "the supermen are no better than the average citizen." It's very, very democratic, and I'm surprised modern people don't pick up on this idea more often.When RDJ Stark says "I am Iron Man" at the end of Iron Man 1, that's actually very anti-democratic, anti-common-man, because he's unwilling to sublimate his incredible power to the level of the rest of the citizenry, but instead asserts his specialness above the common man.
>>151873350I'm sure one of the authors of the Scarlet Pimpernel, el Zorro, or the Shadow were Jewish, but not all of them. And yes, if we count Batman as superheroes, these are tooThat's not counting older characters like Robin Hood, which the creator of the Phantom(whose comic strip came out a year before Superman) pointed to as a direct inspiration. Though I'm sure that guy was jewish, my point is that I think the concept is inherently very human and universal
>>151873377Gordon did what Batman was too afraid to do
>>151873560He doesn't have any loved ones.
>>151873629>that's actually very anti-democratic, anti-common-man,Lines up with the comics, especially that registration business.
>>151871898>privacy is antisocial>different opinions are attacks on muh free speech>we have always been at war with venezuala>greenland isn't free, it belongs to him and me>peace through superior tyranny>this message brought to you by JD Trans for president 2028
>>151873377Bueno
>>151873724A running theme since IM2 is Tony thinking he's above everything and considers it worthy of a violent response if you claim otherwise.
>>151873796Just Dance Vance will be the VP again, Thiel will be the president, and that's why privacy is le bad
Supervillains have a tendency of going after a superhero's friends and family if they know who they are. That can be a weakness. So only reveal who you are under the mask if you have nothing to lose by revealing it.
>>151872664>superman does NOT respect ALL your freedomshitting someone weaker than you makes you a pussy faggotpress and paparazzi is cancer to society and celebrities >muh speedcomic world has a designated racetrack-city whatever for all the speed demons to go where they aren't being turbo faggots in the middle of populated areas, fucking idiot faggot
>>151871898No, I don't. The secret is part and parcel to.the gig and part of the mythos. If I didn't want to read about an identity crisis and the potential fallout of a secret being revealed then I wouldn't look to superhero comics. This is the way it works because performing acts of virtue for free can be easily misinterpreted as malice. Jesus is a real life example and Spider-Man is an apt fictional one. Feats of heroism getting crapped on because a hero is the wrong color or affiliated with the wrong religion or region of the world would like up online debates depending the notoriety of the hero. Celebrity lives are regularly dissected for the pleasure of fans and people who seek to do them harm. They're stalked and sometimes murdered. The vice of human nature is what makes keeping the secret so juicy.Again if I didn't care for that aspect then I wouldn't care for the hero genre in of itself. This is a common trope that doesn't need to be fixed.
>>151871898It's very simple:criminals are bad. they will retaliate.Police have an ultra strong, and highly corrupt union that makes it so anyone who goes after a cop's family gets hunted down like a dog and brutalizedSuperheroes have to stay extra squeaky clean and are not covering for each other at all, in fact they fight and betray each other at the slightest hint of "you've gone too far with that attitude (nevermind you still stop murderers, the attitude is ten times worse!)"So the only way to keep their loved ones safe is to be anonymous. That's why they wear cool masks. this isn't hard.I loved how the amazon The Tick handled it, where a rowdy superhero was unmasked by the police and his family was killed, so they put a new amendment in that says any costumed person you arrest gets to use their alternate identity.>hiding that you're jewishehhhhh kind of? but more in reverse, since "temple / family" is the only place you CAN'T be a superhero. everywhere else out in public, you can.
>>151872144oh yeah like santa claushe didnt want this guy's unmarried daughters to become hookers, so he tossed money through the window at night. didn't want credit, didn't want anyone becoming dependent, just wanted there to be some married ladies and not hoes. That is just taking care of your fuckin community is what that is.
>>151872664Everything that can protect you is a threatyou can either go unprotected or unthreatened, pussy. That's why you learn trigger discipline.
>>151873629I mean.. he is special. without special people we wouldn't have light bulbs.
>>151874293Santa is my favorite cape hero
>>151872956Yeah but superheroes are popular outside of 4chan, so even normies find it acceptable under some circumstances.
>>151872956Don't forget that retards will try to dox each other too, now imagine if your enemies have guns and are part of a mob and aren't just trolls and pedophiles
>>151871898No. I'm not retarded and I understand the reasons.
Frankly I have more issue with people who DON'T understand the secret identity thing and I don't like that so many heroes keep moving away from them.
>>151873560>>151873377There is an entire arc dedicated to escaped convicts going after his loved ones.
>>151872389I get the impression you don't really pay attention to much.
"The super-hero ... is an individualist and he is not deeply rooted in family or community life. He depends upon aides, accomplices, and companions who are far inferior to him in ability, physique, courage, and intelligence. He is more concerned about abstract ideals of justice than in actual human beings. He is omnipotent and infallible. His actions are secretive, so much so that oftentimes they cannot be revealed to his closest companions. These companions, in turn, follow their super-heroes with blind and unfaltering loyalty and devotion. He is more righteous than established law and order. He is defiant toward lawful processes and suspicious of them, and he frequently exposes cumbersome, blundering, unintelligent, or corrupt officers of the law. The super-hero, although generally he disregards legal machinery, sometimes contrives to force this machinery to function by allowing clumsy officials to make the final arrest, mete out punishment, and thus enhance their egos. More often, however, the super-hero contrives to have bad people destroy themselves or one another as a consequence of their misdeeds. The super-hero avoids the roles of the trial lawyer, and of the jury member. These roles are too human for him to risk."--Excerpt from _Bulletin, Issue 54: Evaluation of School Broadcasts Project_ (Ohio State University, Bureau of Educational Research), 1942
Weird attempt at a hamfisted stealth politics thread. Merry Christmas everyone.
>>151875603I can see it edging to that but not really entering politics outright thoughbehonest
>>151874293That's Saint Nicholas, a real person who lived 1700 years ago, not Santa Claus.
>>151871898I think it completely makes sense to hide it from most.For one you can't trust most people, specially not just ordinary, run-of-the-mill friends. Me personally I would maybe trust my parents and siblings, but that's it.You absolutely would not want to risk the secret getting out no matter what. Best case scenario people, including the government, would make your life an absolute hell privacy-wise, and worst case your loved ones would be kidnapped or straight up tortured and murdered depending on the sort of people whose plans you had foiled.
>>151876416People still call Santa Claus Saint Nick from time to time, it's the difference between the monk from Journey to the West and the real actual monk he's based on
