>>152012897
It's definitely better than some of what came after it

I always liked it.

>>152012897
They fucked up Ultron.

>>152012897
The closest we’ll get to a comic accurate Quicksilver

>>152014978
Liar

>>152012897
the reviews are correct that theres too much going on with the dynamics and subplots and ultron himself is not dealt with in a satisfying manner or given enough screentime. Iron man fights ultron once in quickly in the background, captain america briefly fights him, then they quickly kill him at the end when everyone gets together and it happens quickly. But I do like it a lot for all of them being together like you said.

Also theres a part in Tonys nightmare vision where all the avengers are dead but there are soldiers lying among them with SWORD patches on their uniform as insignia. I cant find anyone behind the scenes affirming what or who they were supposed to be or why they were fighting with them to the death in Tonys mind. it seems like at the end the avengers compound is training people...?? Its just weird to think about and weirder how no one after this followed up on that yet it was obviously an intentional decision at the time.

>>152012897
I think this movie not doing much more that the first one scared Marvel in ever doing a non universe ending event Avengers movie.

>>152012897
eh, it's still my least favorite of the Infinity Saga films. Extremely bloated with too many plots, yet none of them are too developed. The pacing makes the film a bit of a chore, to me. And overall it definitely feels the most, pardon the buzzword, "marvelslop" of the MCU. I love the Infinity Saga, but I feel when most people deride MCU films, the image in their heads is probably this film or Civil War (which was better, but has many of the same issues).

Ultimately I'm most dour on this film, though, mainly because I'm a huge Ultron fan. I think him being made by Tony could've worked, but Ultron's personality and lines were trying too hard to be funny. I like Ultron when he's a robot that's completely convinced it is emotionless, feels superiority over that fact, and can even be pretty convincing to others - yet is in denial of his own boiling, hateful rage.
Also his design; they had the perfect Ultron design with his drones in the climax, I wish that was what the main Ultron looked like lol.

I am also upset they didn't save Ultron for a big Hank Pym character arc, and ultimately just skipped over Hank in favor of focusing on Scott, but ultimately I really really really love Scott so I'm kinda okay with it.

>>152012897
Back when the Avengers movies were about the Avengers themselves

>>152017076
>I am also upset they didn't save Ultron for a big Hank Pym character arc, and ultimately just skipped over Hank in favor of focusing on Scott, but ultimately I really really really love Scott so I'm kinda okay with it.
while i agree, i think scott was always intended to be the main ant-man when hank and janet were scrapped from avengers 1. it's just too easy to give scott a story - he's an underdog that's trying his best to be a hero after being a small-time crook, and hank serves as a good mentor. idk if they ever would've done ultron justice because then they'd have to do hank justice first.

honestly, avengers 2 should've been about something else. if they weren't totally retarded, the masters of evil would've been great. one villain for each of the main heroes. they've all been in a movie too, so you don't have to spend extra time setting up each member of the masters of evil (and it's fun to watch them all have to work together)

>>152012897
Better than 2012

>>152015021
this does it for me. turning him into a joke and then killing him off immediately was disappointing. changing his origin sucked too and was one of the earliest examples of the MCU’s annoying obsession with Iron Man and making Stark the center of everything.

>>152016930
There was shit that Whedon was setting up that was scrapped as soon as he left Marvel. I’m betting his Thanos would’ve been entirely different from the Russo’s. It looked like they were actually gonna fight in space instead of Wakanda

>>152017904
damn I have to say outside of more glaring and obvious issues my biggest issue with Endgame was how Thanos let himself be killed at the start and he seemingly didnt care or plan for anyone to come find him there in his hut. If it was comic Thanos he would have used that as a trap to lure them in and I would have expected a fight on that planet or in space to take place that was super disappointing for me. The only time we see Thanos in space is at the start of Infinity War where he intercepts Thor.

>>152012897
It was never bottom tier MCUslop but Hulk X Widow is still cringe, making Ultron just a quipping copy of Tony was still unthreatenig for the supposed biggest on screen bad yet, and the one liners started to get really bad here

>>152017923
>If it was comic Thanos
Unfortunately it wasn’t. MCU Thanos is a retard whose entire plan would only be temporary anyways because eventually the universe would start to overpopulate again. Russo’s and Markus/McFeely are not very bright people, it’s why all their shit outside of Marvel is bad.

>>152017076
How it went from there to Endgame made more more sympathetic to the choice of Ultron. There's a degree of pragmatism in it; they're ramping up towards Infinity War, and they need to get a lot of elements up set up in not a lot of time. They were still pretty iffy about crossing over with the TV series, so they wanted to get it all done in the movies.
I'm willing to bet they aimed for a stone and a classic Avenger, picked Wanda, and just worked backwards from there. Wanda goes well with Vision, Vision means Ultron, Ultron means Hank Pym, but they don't have him, so they have to either cram Hank into the new characters or use somebody else. Somebody might've suggested some set-up for Civil War, so they went with Tony. How well they accomplished these things is debatable, but you can see how it might've gone.
In another world, maybe they went with Jan instead of Wanda. They'd introduce her and Hank, maybe use a different villain and a different stone, and save Ultron for later. It might've been more interesting, but I really doubt they'd handle Hank well.

>>152017923
I mean, comic Thanos is the guy who gained omnipotence, only to lose it because he neglected to protect the source of his power. Twice.
They just wanted to do the end of Infinity Gauntlet. They couldn't go for "fuck this, I'm done", so "do what you must, I have already won" had to suffice.

>>152018039
Oh same here, like, I *get* why it is the way it is for sure lol. Nevertheless, dunno, I feel like they coulda set up most of that stuff if they used a different villain and saved Vision for after Endgame. Woulda been the better choice imo anywho, since I think Vision and even Wanda were heavily underutilized in the films leading up to Infinity War. Ah, well.

>>152017890
To be fair, it makes more sense that Iron Man created Ultron.

>>152017867
>while i agree, i think scott was always intended to be the main ant-man when hank and janet were scrapped from avengers 1
Earlier. Before the MCU had even started, Edgar Wright was already pitching to Marvel Studios an Ant Man movie with Scott as the lead. He wrote earlier versions of the script and even did the casting, before leaving due to creative differences. I don't think Hank was ever planned to be the MCU Ant Man.

There was a plan for Janet to be in Avengers 1, but it was mainly because Scarlet Johansson hadn't signed on for the movie at the time, so Whedon wrote a draft that had Wasp in her place thinking Black Widow wouldn't make it to the movie.

>>152012897
Unironically my only issues with it were Vision, Scarlet Witch, and Quicksilver, for being boring, ultimately worthless characters, and killing Ultron off permanently because he's legitimately the best MCU villain, as low a fucking bar as that is.

>>152018152
>he's legitimately the best MCU villain
Bullseye, Kingpin, and Green Goblin mog him

>>152012897
The movie has problems, but the disappointment was amplified because the trailers and advertising gave the audience the impression that the film was going to have a very dark tone that ended up being wildly different than what we got.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmeOjFno6Do

>>152017867
It's mental to me that the movies never tried Under Siege for a film but the lack of Jarvis and also the writers never touching a Marvel comic before the 2000's would've nicked that clearly. I wonder what lineup for the Masters of evil they would go for besides the obvious of Baron Zemo and Moonstone.

>>152018145
Regardless of Whedon’s plans, Hank and Janet should have been in Avengers 1, Hank as a scientist and Janet as the Wasp. Hank can become Ant Man in Avengers 2 or a Solo.
Ant Man 1 is fine, but having size shenanigans in the Avengers would have been worth the loss.

>>152018372
Who would you cast for a younger Hank in this revising of him being in the first Avengers movie with Janet and what mantle would be have?

File: RCO005_1469016992.jpg (1.07 MB, 1920x2914)

1.07 MB JPG

>>152018382
>what mantle would be have
Not him, but they would definitely spend most of the movie making jokes about him choosing one and play with G.I. Ant-Man.

>>152018406
Honestly if you had him make the Yellowjacket suit you could then have that tie into my hypothetical of an Under Siege Avengers movie by having Rita Demara steal and modify it before he could actually wear it. Honestly the Giant man suit is my fave for Hank so I'd be good with him having that mantle if Scott Lang had to stay as Ant-Man suppose. Also never saw this page but I like Hank naming the mass produced suit that, it's really charming even if I think he wouldn't want to make the suit for the army in my personal opinion.

>>152018382
>Casting
Not sure who I would like. Patrick Wilson’s Nite Owl was pretty close to what I imagine, and he’s got the right shape for a “Nerdy guy who could kick your ass” type role.
>Mantle
The idea the other Anon had is pretty good.

>>152017076
They were ALWAYS going to "skip over Hank to focus on Scott". This was always the plan back when Edgar Wright was going to make the Ant-Man movie, years before the MCU even got started. There was sadly never a scenario where the movies were going to use Hank for anything but a mentor role. The Avengers movies had to work around not being able to use Hank or Jan, and had to change Ultron's origin because of that.

The movie not letting Ultron really come across as a serious physical threat to the Avengers is a bigger problem than changing his origin, to be honest. The other big problem is how this movie is Peak Whedon, he simply can't stop himself from ruining every single moment of drama or tension by having someone quipping, no matter how situationally inappropriate it is.

OP's right though, it's a fun movie despite it's flaws, and the last time we get the Avengers as a proper team, and the last time an Avengers movie is focused on having the actual Avengers as it's protagonists instead of most of them getting overshadowed by other characters.

The three new additions to the team were great, it's a shame Whedon just had to kill someone and chose Quicksilver.

>>152018039
Whedon did an interview shortly after the movie was released where he talked about how the early planning for Age of Ultron went. He met with Feige after completing work on the first Avengers movie but before it's release to discuss ideas for a sequel. As someone who actually read Avengers back in the 70s, Whedon's main ideas for a sequel were:
>Ultron should be the villain
>Add Wanda, Pietro and Vision to the team
>Give Wanda and Vision "a moment" to set up their romance
>Pietro dies
He wasn't even thinking about Infinity Stones or building to Thanos that early in the process. I think the MCU has tricked people into greatly overestimating the degree of focus on that stuff in Phases 2 and 3 prior to Infinity War, and overestimating how much everything was designed to build to that.

>>152018252
How would you even do the Masters of Evil in the MCU though? It simply doesn't have enough mid- and low-tier villains who could band together as a team for a plot like that. You'd have to do like a Suicide Squad movie and introduce them all as a group, and just refer to them having off-screen history with the heroes that audiences never saw. It would suck.

You'd need to spend a good ten years introducing a cast of villains and not killing them before you could pull off a team like that.

File: IMG_3474.jpg (542 KB, 1290x1606)

542 KB JPG

>>152012897
I still hate quiptron, i hate his shitty redesign with lips, i hate the retarded hawkeye family but and banner and black widows romance subplot, i hate wheadon too. This movie and iron man 3 are what made me fall out of love of the MCU

>>152018546
They already have enough villains to make a masters of evil.
They are all over the MCU.

They don't need 10 years to waste on bullshit characters. They have good still living or can be brought back through cybernetics and what have you characters.
Can even have the guy that was supposed to be Taskmaster brought back and say she was just a decoy he helped create so he could work in secret.

The real problem is that Marvel sucks dick, and not in the Nancy Reagen way. They would rather shit out an embarassing clusterfuck and call it the thunderbolts then create a villain team to take on the avengers.
Mainly because Marvel 100% completely fucked it all up with creating a new cast of likeable characters. Because the people in charge are fucking insane and live in lunatic bubbles and supported by blackrock money so they don't have to create something people will like. They can jsut crap out propogandistic bullshit with nep babies and whoever they got onto the lesbian casting couch to show up and shit up the screen for an hour and a half.

>>152018560
Iron Man 3 was at least a better story than the Extremis comic. Man that thing was dumb, what a terrible villain in that.

>>152018546
Could easily just have some of the past films just use some of the eventual Masters of Evil members in action scenes that aren't to vital to the films main plot or just not kill the villains in every film so that they can pop up again. Like the essential members you need are Baron Zemo, Moonstone and whoever works for physical threats like the Wrecking Crew, Mister Hyde, Absorbing Man or Tiger Shark for example while the rest just have to fit whatever lineup is in the Avengers. Be easy enough to replace Hercules role in the storyline with Hulk as the big threat they need the heavy hitters to gang up on and could even use Abomination as an easy enough member since he's already in the MCU.

File: IMG_9816.jpg (104 KB, 450x455)

104 KB JPG

>>152018581
I never read extremis, 17 year old me back then was just fucking fuming about the mandarin twist. Im still bitter about it, iron man never fought his joker or his lex luthor all so they could have some fake out dumb twist for no reason. Im thankful in one way for it in that it made me much more harshly critical over media but i still feel betrayed to this day. AOU sucking shortly afterwards was what really made the hate boner against MCU slop set in. Theyve made several decent films since but nothing has ever made the cynicsm i have against the MCU go away completely

>>152018637
I'm the opposite, I've read Extremis but I'm still slowly, steadily working through the 80s comics lol.
Yeah, Mandarin being done that way sucks, but iirc even back then they were setting up a "real" Mandarin to exist - like, there was a Marvel One-Shot where the Ten Rings tried to assassinate Trevor in jail, released not too long after IM3? A shame the Shang-Chi movie was a bit boring, though.

Either way, I do recommend you giving Extremis a read sometime, if only because it's 6 issues. Having read it, I was more able to appreciate IM3 as "well at least it took the good concepts from it, and turned all that into a better story". Or you could read it and tell me I'm wrong and stupid lol.

>>152018637
>for no reason
For the same reason they made the Ancient One Celtic.

>>152018192
Now THIS takes me back...

>>152018637
>iron man never fought his joker or his lex luthor all so they could have some fake out dumb twist for no reason.
it was because they were scared of being perceived as heckin waycist. feige was always a woke retard, disney just gave him claws.

>>152015021
Yes, that's the problem people always try to ignore when looking back fondly. They fumbled the whole thing with that characterization, there's no way the movie can work without a proper Ultron.

>>152018130
how so?

>>152018130
Not really

>>152022302
... Yes, really.

>>152012897
It's everything wrong with blockbusters.

>>152012897
It wasn't THAT bad, but it could have been a better movie.

>>152023932
What would've made it 'better,' in your eyes?

File: file.png (2.49 MB, 2000x832)

2.49 MB PNG

>>152024506
More subtlety. More humanity, the way they talked during downtime was jarring. While I disliked the Quipsilver costume, I did prefer what little personality he had to the comic version. Also I know people hated pic related, but I fucking love it. I know it could have been better I wish more comic book movies attempted "splash pages." Attempting to do comic panels was one of the things I also fucking loved about 03 Hulk. I would have removed Natasha pursuing Banner and kept the immense trust and friendship, like she has with Barton. I prefer Ultron being more maniacal with intense megalomania, but there was no Hank Pym to mirror and take traits from. I'm not even sure Ultron was the right pick for the second movie. I think Scarlet Witch should have been the primary antagonist and Pietro sacrificing himself to save both her and everyone would have been a better story.

>>152024861
>Also I know people hated pic related, but I fucking love it. I know it could have been better I wish more comic book movies attempted "splash pages."
I did like when they did this with the Cap vs Iron Man fight at the end of Civil War.

>>152012897
There are 3 major problems for me.

1. Joss Whedon dialogue made almost every like a joke. Legitimately did not feel like anyone was taking anything seriously
2. Half the movie's runtime was dedicated to setting up other movies.
3. Killing off Strucker and Ultron after their first appearances was remarkably stupid.

>>152012897
The real Avengers 2 is Civil War and this is just the prequel.

File: what could've been.jpg (486 KB, 960x861)

486 KB JPG

>>152012897
Remember what they took from you.

>>152025892
We needed an Avengers movie between AOU and Civil War to see the new lineup working together before Civil War tore them apart.

It's insane that despite having over 40 years of comic history from before it to adapt, the MCU speedran to Civil War that quickly after the Avengers formed.

>>152012897
The only good thing about the whole movie was Vision picking up the hammer

>>152026062
I'm sure that's not the ONLY good thing

>>152027259
Oh don't be mistaken. It is.

>>152012897
I honestly thought that Ultron had been not that bad as a villain although as for today the quips would be pretty grating. What really interests me is how much worse these movies get at a second wieving. Without the hype all the flaws just jump onto the screen clear as day.

>>152017953
While the overpopulation thing is something they setup in the comics prior to infinity gauntlet, I think even in the movie he reveals at the end of Endgame he just wants the remaining half of the universe to worship him. But again that contradicts why he just let himself be killed in his hut house instead of basking in the glory of the remainder half of the universe worshipping him so it reallyt doesnt make sense either way in the film.

>>152018105
he loses in unexpected ways but he still does cunning traps to kill the heroes chasing him

>>152015021
>>152017890
>>152020551
I never understood the dislike for MCU Ultron
>Petty emotional brat just like Marvel Ultron
>Wiped a country off the face of the Earth like Ultron Unlimited
>Built Vision
>Even threw in a Crimson Cowl reference

What, is it really because Hank didn't build him?

>>152029530
its because none of the fights with him are good. Iron Man literally destroys him like its no big deal in the shipyard, he fights captain america/widow briefly, he unleashes hulk but thats indirect, and while he physically destroys sokovia the civilians are all evacuated so... not quite the same. And theres no badass moment where the avengers are literally overrun to the brim with ultrons to the point its like a zombie horde they try to do something like that at the end but it never feels as dangerous or deadly. To contrast with Thanos, all the best fights in infinity war are the direct confrontations with him. And when he unleashes hulk again that doesnt feel like his work it just becomes about showcasing hulk and ironman
https://youtu.be/Ec-p6BhGM6w?si=_SwZCi__XVU2JlNP&t=212

>>152029601
>its because none of the fights with him are good.
Is that really what we've come down to? Also to be fair, neither did the original Avengers. Chitauri were just kind of fodder getting mowed down by the dozens. Ultron was at least solo kicking Thor's ass at one point, and the purpose of the ship fight was to distract Tony so he could steal vibranium. His bodies were disposable.

File: 1624796787114.png (210 KB, 598x574)

210 KB PNG

>>152029649
Yes its a superhero movie its supposed to have cool superhero fights

>>152029530
He's the perfect example of what's wrong with the MCU's handling of villains. They made him quippy, had him be incompetent, and got rid of him at the end. If you like that then that's fine but a lot of people didn't. There's a reason why the trailer was so popular and still remembered fondly. That was Ultron at his best in that movie and it was all downhill from there.

Phase 3 pays off Ultron in so many ways that it's one of their best movies on rewatch.
Civil War and the fallout from Infinity War wouldn't have mattered if we didn't see the Avengers organization and friendships.

Doomsday has a lot of work to do since there hasn't been a teamup in years.

>>152029665
go back to sucking dicks on reddit

>>152029876
wow so this is the power of ultronfags

>>152029767
>They made him quippy
We've had comics where Ultron had a drinking problem
>had him be incompetent
He manipulated Hulk to sow public distrust in the Avengers, wiped a country off a map, and almost destroyed life on the planet.
>and got rid of him at the end
So like nearly every movie villain? He's reported to return in Vision Quest, if that ever comes out.

I'm not saying you have to love him, I'm just making a point that shitting on MCU Ultron in a lot of cases is very short sighted and makes me question if people actually know about how emotional comic Ultron can be

>>152017890
Hes coming back in Vision Quest

>>152016122
No that anon but I always liked it and never understood all the hate. Hulk vs Hulkbuster alone was worth the price of admission.

>>152029902
>So like nearly every movie villain?
Him being able to escape and come back is one of his most prominent abilities. He got that taken from him and all his drones were destroyed. All the changes made to him made him less threatening and that's done on purpose. The movie constantly downgrades the threat he poses so even when he's winning it doesn't feel as dire. The entire world's population was almost wiped out and it didn't feel like it. When Ultron tried to escape, Hulk jumps into his plane and tosses him out and that was made comedic with him yelling. Likely an attempt to recreate the scene from the first Avengers film where Hulk was slamming around Loki. The MCU likes its villains simple and not too scary for the masses.

>>152029994
Okay but what about everything else I said?

>>152030030
Did Ultron have a drinking problem in his first appearance? Didn't MCU Ultron try to kill a bunch of scientists and one he shot manage to survive? Didn't he spend a lot of time trading quips with Tony? Didn't he lose the twins and Vision all in one movie? Didn't he get his whole horde wiped out when he was supposed to be winning?

>>152012897
All the Avengers movies are trash.

File: 1734095005995.jpg (46 KB, 474x474)

46 KB JPG

>>152031279
The MCU Avengers movies can't ALL be trash with Spidey around

>>152012897
>You know
I DON'T know, actually.

>>152012897
Pietro dying ruins it, just Feige kneeling to Fox

>>152032977
SPOILERS!!

>>152026062
Cap budging the hammer>Vision picking it up

>>152034864
Those two scenes complement each other. Can't have the full effect without the both of 'em

>>152015021
damn shame