My girlfriend says Doctor Doom means nothing to people today and that MF DOOM has more cultural relevance, while only “fucking nerds” know Doctor Doom. Is she right?
>>152067593I don't believe you have a girlfriend
>my girlfriendGet the fuck out you fucking normie.
>>152067593>having a girlfriend while being on 4chan
embarrassing replies
>>152067593Tell her Dr. Doom inspired countless other villains so he has enough of a cultural legacy that will outlast whatever comes out from under her legs because she was enough of a retard to have a bf like you.
And yet there are MILLIONS of people living since the 60s - some of which haven't read a comic in decades - who still know and remember Dr. Doom and certainly have never heard of MF DOOM. Just taking the sheer numbers and time span into account, would be the killer argument.Furthermore: Nobody over 40, who isn't into Hiphop has ever heard of MF DOOM, especially outside the US, and yet you have decades of encountering Dr. Doom in an almost infinite amount of media.Heck, even Stephen King's Dark Tower series mentions Dr. Doom several times prominently. I think that alone have read more people than people who know MF DOOM.
>>152067593she is right.
>>152069109lmao John Carter inspired everything and his movie bombed nobody cares about John Carter
>>152067593I've never heard of MF DOOM and had to Google him. No person in my life has ever brought him up. I genuinely have a lot of real life friends across the ages of like 25-50, not to mention my parents.The dude apparently died in 2020, so Zoomers or Gen Alpha won't know him at all either? I don't get it. But, Doctor Doom isn't really that well known either. I'd assume the "normies" only know him from the Fantastic Four movies in the 00's. Honestly, it hasn't been that long since I asked people if they knew who Lex Luthor or Lois Lane were at work, and everyone shrugged their shoulders. Blew my mind.
>>152067593Only fucking nerds know MF DOOM
>>152067593Post your gf
>>152067593>MF Doom Literally fucking who?
>>152067593>My girlfriend-- Fake News
>>152067593https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mwxMsViVjI
>>152069109>Dr. Doom inspired countless other villainsName 3 because I'm genuinely curious.
>>152067593>hole says somethingthey're for impregnating and using their orifices for sexual pleasure. nothing more.
>>152070757Not OP, but Darth Vader for now.
>>152067593I know who doom is >>152069340Bad marketing can screw over decent films. I genuinely believe that it was an inside job so Disney didn't have to handle it and Star Wars
>>152070925Then what happens if she gives birth to a woman?
>>152067593>MF DOOMWho/>?
>>152067593>MF DOOM
>>152067593Yes. He's someone who is really only in the wheelhouse of comic people. From a mainstream perspective he's probably C tier.
>>152071957>it had to have been bad marketing, no way te movie was just shit and audiences didn't careHoly cope.
>>152075136Is this from Giant Days?
>>152075995Nope. Brainchild.
>>152070757A lot of Marvel villains are different flavors of him tackling different subjects or functions but all fit the fundamental archetype of a dictator seeking to rule the world and fix it according to their own ends. Thanos more blatantly also stole from him alongside Darkseid by seeking godlike power multiple times lime Doom. They even reference this somewhat during Infinity Gauntlet.Obviously this stems from Kirby and Stan hating Hitler and Stalin and that era.Cobra Commander as well is what I would say is another inspired villain from Doom. Helps GIJoe was under Marvel as well.Lex becoming president and his 80's transformation into a business mogul also I feel like stems from the movie and Dr. Doom but that may be an idea I made up but Byrne did get inspired by FF as a child.
>>152067593isnt mf doom a fat dead black guy
>>152074898>>152069471>>152069374>>152075136did you guys never watch Adult Swim?
>>152067593>>152069374Something that's really important to understand is that normies ONLY know about characters through their adaptations. Doom is well known to comic readers, which do not forget, is a niche medium. To casuals who do know the character, ie. most of the population, he's just "that lightning shooting guy from the FF movies", not the renaissance man techno-magician monarch. Hell, Doomsday will be the character's introduction to a large portion of audiences, so prepare yourselves to see him mischaracterized from this year on.
>>152067593What is MF DOOM?
>>152075183If you were an 80s or 90s kid and watched any Marvel cartoons you probably have a basic idea of Doom is because he was in a lot of them, but most people who aren't nerds don't tend to obsess over cartoons they saw as kids that much. If she does exist, OP's girl is mostly right, Doom is in much the same situation as the Fantastic Four, being something that's been tried in adaptations repeatedly without really getting that much traction with normies, no matter how much nerds keep insisting they're so important and influential. The constant argument was that if an adaptation "got Doom right" it would be a huge success because normies would somehow just inherently know what "Doom done right" even was and would care. And it's as delusional as the people insisting that MCU versions of FF and X-Men would just automatically outperform Avengers, GOTG, etc, without even having to try, simply because it's FF and X-Men.That there have already been several live-action attempts at Doom and normie audiences didn't really care is probably why the MCU has stunt-cast an actor MCU audiences already care about for the role.
>>152067593It sounds like you kept powerscaling Dr.Doom and finally pissed her off.
>>152076824That's a really good point, and I don't think much people here get a good grasp of what good timing can mean in the eyes of normies. If released today as the exact same movie, GotG would've hardly made the money it did simply because the MCU brand was much stronger back then. Independently of what you thought of the MCU FF, it wasnpt going to revive the brand given A) the bad state the franchise is in right now, having driven many people away, and B) FF not being a brand favored by normies in the past, plus the characters dissapearing from the mainstream for almost ten years prior (which shows that, again, casuals do not care about comics or their history). Honestly I do wonder if they included the X-Men in Doomsday to have general audiences more interested for when the reboot comes, since they also have not been a part of the mainstream in a while sans Deadpool and Wolverine.
>>152076984>That's a really good point, and I don't think much people here get a good grasp of what good timing can mean in the eyes of normies.I sometimes get the sense that a lot of lifelong nerds genuinely believe every normie is just a nerd waiting to happen, that one a person is exposed to the things the nerd loves, it'll just automatically win them over. And it just doesn't work like that. Like you say, good timing is everything.>Honestly I do wonder if they included the X-Men in Doomsday to have general audiences more interested for when the reboot comes, since they also have not been a part of the mainstream in a while sans Deadpool and Wolverine.I'm starting to suspect it's more like the opposite, that with the MCU in a downward spiral already, they have to know an X-Men reboot, especially one without Deadpool or Huge Jacked Man, isn't likely to perform any better than most of the Fox movies did, so it's not the urgent priority project to be made ASAP that fans think it is, while there's sadly a proven audience that does indeed just want to point and clap at cameos from older Marvel movies, so thanks to that Disney are going to milk the Retirement Home X-Men for all they're worth before recasting.
>>152067593You’re black.
>>152077190Whatever purpose the FoX-Men ultimately serve in Doomsday, it does seem that they went for them mostly for nostalgiabaiting. I do think that they were always meant to appear in Secret Wars, but on a much smaller role than what they are now. One of the few thing that we do know about The Kang Dynasty is that the X-Men weren't in it (nor the FF for that matter), so it was indeed something only brought up when they reformatted Avengers 5 into something meant to draw normies back in.
>>152076092>wanting to rule the world or be a god is derivative of Dr. Doom specificallySo stupid you actually made me laugh. Congratulations, you black hole of brainpower.
>>152077190>good timing is everythingYeah not that anon, but I feel like Doom would be a major draw if the movies had EMH writers who showed him sparingly but early on so that he establishes a presence but is brought out when shit needs to go down. Dr. Doom is also kinda like attitude-era Rock. A shittalking presence that is an egomaniac that also has just enough charisma that you still like him. He buries people but he also can be part of a cabal of villains that he will later exploit or leave alone while screwing them over and saying that he didn't need them in the first place when he kinda did need them as a distraction.But also Doom is most interesting when he is triumphant and now has to execute what he said was gonna do and then you realize he is flawed in some way. Then you can do a slight redemption arc where he helps kill another villain and regains the fear he once instilled on others.
>>152077307I know it's a bit generic and that there were dictator super villains in the golden age that wanted to rule the world. But what I should've added was that Doom succeeds and is fairly benevolent except for controlling speech made against him. He isn't outright brutal most of the time. It's the more nuanced result of why people attract to the "great man" archetype. Basically, what if Hitler had rejuvenated Germany and then decided to stick to the land he had and bided his time while winning the devotion of his people more concretely and for a longer period of time.Yeah I wrote a fast and loose reason why he inspired so many other villains but I guess to hammer out that idea is that the masked look, competence in using as many sources of power as he can, and aims are what informed future characters. Call that a cope but there is some nuance to Dr. Doom that led to villains being informed by him.
>>152077219black people don't listen to MF Doom, that's a white guy who likes indie rap thing.
>>152077365You could make a similar argument for any big villain though, that they'd be a major draw by the time we get to their big moment if they'd been built up well enough in advance in successful and popular movies. Phases 1-2 of the MCU didn't even do that much with Thanos, but they did enough to build him up well, and just contrast that with how badly they dropped the ball on building up Kang. There's no reason Kang wouldn't have worked if they hadn't fumbled him so badly. Doom could have worked if they'd built him up well enough, but having previous live action adaptations nobody cared about is a hurdle that they would've needed to clear, which is a problem you wouldn't have with just using a villain who hadn't been tried before. And this is why they've stunt-cast Downey as Doom, because they don't have time to build Doom up, and he's not inherently a draw to normies on name-value alone.
>>152077743I guess there's the rub. One option is the building of him slowly, thwarting the heroes over several movies, either through stealing mcguffins, taking over countries, and killing characters or the 2nd option which is showing up suddenly and doing some drastic status quo action. Either one builds up the menace and threat of the villain. I guess I need to think about this more as to whether Doom lends himself to one more than the other and what would a general audience like. I guess Thanos did the latter more than the former. But since Marvel wants people to see Avengers sooner so they can get more money sooner, that won't happen and Doom will probably be fumbled in some way.Marvel really should've just been less greedy and took a break for a while.I get normies won't automatically like Doom just like normies didn't automatically like Rocky Maivia. But I think now on it, Doom lends himself to being a slow-burning threat because he is a villain that is a threat to everyone in the Marvel U and that requires more screentime across a diverse cast and diverse set of movies. And that requires more planning and time rather than one crossover movie. He is a more of a schemer than Thanos even though he also had schemes in the comics.I just felt like saying that Doom is uniquely cool in his design and set of characteristics. I don't know Kang too well but what I will say is that he is visually not as menacing as Doom even if nowadays we are used to seeing masked villain types. Doom got aura that Kang doesn't.
MF Doom fucking sucks and always has.
