>>152083545
To save X-Men at the least you'd have to reboot to before Morrison in 2001. If you're going to try and fix things you have to cut the cancer out entirely, not pick some arbitrary cut-off point based around keeping one later run you actually liked.

Hard mode you'd have to reboot to the early 80s before Claremont really started doing "mutants are a metaphor" stories and before he gave Magneto an origin.

>is the situation similar for spider-man, avengers or other titles? would you say that those titles get worse after 2014?

The obvious point for Spider-Man is OMD in 2007, though if you're going to do that you'd probably reboot to before Civil War so you don't have to find a non-Mephisto way to back out of the unmasking.

The obvious point for Avengers as a whole is Disassembled in 2004, though individual characters might have different points. Captain America and Thor are broadly fine into the 2010s, Iron Man's probably better off rebooting before 20 straight years of writers who disliked Tony Stark for being a rich white genius. Hawkeye is probably best rebooted before Bendis, She-Hulk before Slotto, Scarlet Witch and Vision all the way back before Byrne in the late 1980s, and Hank Pym even further back before the slap.

>>152084334
>Claremont really started doing "mutants are a metaphor" stories
Stan Lee already was doing this

>>152083545
>they're still racists with an island fortress
>but it's 2014 again

>>152084334
mutants were always a metaphor, it's just that the metaphor was "hey what if people hated YOU because of something you couldn't change about yourself???" and Spider-Man always did it better without the ever-ballooning cast of idiots and criminal friends

if you want to reset the X-Men you simply go back to No More Mutants or wherever and you actively TAKE mutants away who are under-served or were never a good fit for the X-Men either as heroes or antagonists

so you'd take Justice and Firestar, Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver, Ms. Marvel, big names that at one time or another the X-Men have leaned heavily on (because Whiny Bitch Supermodel Fantastipowers #9001 didn't take with readers for some reason) and you take them all, or mostly, at the same time

and you just say well, the X-Men lied to you: you were never a mutant, you do have an X-gene because almost everybody, even non-mutants, does, but yours isn't the source of your powers and the X-Men, who've shown their willingness to literally rewrite reality multiple times to try and benefit themselves, were gaslighting you with false test results to try and get you and your powers on their side, because they're losers

actually fixing a group of them like the O5 is harder: there are ways you could do it that are less blunt than "kill them off for a few years and see if anybody remembers all their Hank Slap moments then" or "time travel bro" but the truth is there's only so many weird island cult fortresses you can build with Magneto and Emma Frost and Apocalypse and Sinister on the ruling council before you're, well, villains and should be treated as such going forward

rehabbing the original Thunderbolts was a cakewalk by comparison to that mountain climb

These are rancid fucking ideas. Getting pre-Claremont Magneto would be another Xorn repeat waiting to happen. Nobody would give a shit about the messy history if they got a good team to start writing decent stories that make you want to buy more books

>>152084703
counterpoint: we don't need any new x-men stories at all, we can just not have them and admit they went to shit

>>152084703
Nobody can make X-Men stories good when every fucking character has arguably become their universe’s equivalent of actual Hitler
They’re racial purists who started an ethnostate and told the rest of the world to get fucked, sometimes actively launching attacks against humans for no fucking reason other than “muh extinction,” and yet the X-Office has tried to pass them off as unironic heroes for decades now. To fix the X-Men without turning the clock back a few decades, you’d have to kill almost every prominent character off and start completely from scratch with an active denouncement of the rancid shit their predecessors did for the last 20ish years.

>>152085566
>They’re racial purists who started an ethnostate and told the rest of the world to get fucked
>get killed, raped, murdered and genocided again and again and again and again
>take the hint and BUILT your own land
>not steal like humans do, BUILT IT from basically thin air
>go live there and ask to not be bothered again
>still get killed, raped and genocides because humans can't stand you simply existing
How are they Hitler again? If anything the whole of humanity is Hitler

>>152084334
>before Morrison
people here are such weirdo faggots I swear, something can be universally praised and you'll have faggots here acting like it's horrible

>>152085870
You left out the part where members of their autocratic ruling council explicitly tell world representatives they're going to actively seek to control foreign economic and media systems to gain de facto political control over other nations. Immediately begin to violate national sovereignty claiming that all mutants are citizens of Krakoa and only bound to Krakoa's authority and laws while using diplomatic immunity as a cover for armed incursions into foreign nations and piracy. Create an intelligence service that does nothing have a black ops wetwork squad kill political enemies under a policy of pre-emptive self defense and to genocide any economic competition to their export market. Make an outright landgrab against a friendly nation so they can use the seized territory as a springboard for an extractive colonial empire in an alternate dimension.

Humanity was hands off with Krakoa on a level that'd be unthinkable in the real world. Krakoa spent the entire run being an asshole to everyone while screaming that they're the real victim while doing the geopolitical equivalent of busting into someone's house in the middle of the night, shooting the owner for being there, leaving with a flatscreen tv and a 9 year old, then coming back the next morning saying they own the place under squatter's rights.

>>152084334
they already found a way to do the unmasking reversal without mephisto. the way they did it in the mcu. literally a wizard did it would work. heck even in the comics mephisto's bs made it so that in reality doctor strange was the one who changed reality (if i remember correctly). they could just say that was what happened all along without the mephisto bullshit

>>152086723
>Humanity was hands off
They literally killed their representative in the first few weeks of Krakoa's existence what the fuck are you babbling about

>>152084334
So pretty much anything after the year 2000

>>152087495
Clearly, they should’ve gone much further

>>152087825
So we agree that humans are aggressors. Thank you! Krakoa was absolutely legitimate in everything they did

>>152085870
>take the hint and BUILT your own land
OK which time because

Magneto has personally taken over like three countries (two of them since he became an X-Man), and despite all the crying about the millions of mutants killed by his Krakoan ally and best friend's sister Cassandra Nova, nobody has ever explained why there weren't any non-mutants left on Genosha when the Sentinel attack happened, because the whole thing with Genosha was that before that, they did have a lot of mutants, but they were an underclass (like the Alpha Primitives of Attilan) to the non-mutant humans, and you could say "well those humans were slavers so what's the problem" and I mean

do you want to solve race relations that way b/c if you do then have you ever understood the point of X-Men stories written before 2000?

Magneto has also built a couple of asteroid bases in orbit but aside from the fact this is stupid (because where are you getting food? this isn't star trek, they don't have fucking replicators) they keep crashing to earth because uh turns out moonlet-sized asteroids in low orbits are a Bad Idea

and one of those bases which landed in the Pacific Ocean was LITERALLY MOVED from where it fell to inside the US territorial waters (ie the 3-mile limit), so close that you could see San Francisco from Utopia, and having moved it there, THEN the X-Men tried to declare it was independent and sovereign territory, which is both stupid and a dick move, especially since they were just going over to SF on shopping trips every time they wanted a Snickers; Utopia you'll recall ended with the X-Men forcibly taking over the world (but not resurrecting the mutants - Hope Summers and the Avengers did that)

>>152087495
So what you're saying is that after Krakoa's rulers declared their hostile intent, humanity killed one of them.

>>152085870
>>152087970

the various Xavier/Grey/Howlett schools over the years have become more and more like fucking Waco both in terms of fortification and jumpy armed idiots inside and in terms of the way they try to claim sovereign citizen bullshit (let's be honest, the kids at those schools never learn anything except that Emma Frost has to change her white lingerie every time she uses the bathroom)

Krakoa, I mean, where do you begin? sure it sounds like independence, sure it sounds like they finally solved the snickers problem, but they were also trying to change the fucking timeline, which is some supervillain shit

they attacked and destroyed Wundagore at least once, possibly twice, idr any more

these are not good people

they're not even being oppressed, they're just being told they have the same rights as everybody else, and they HATE that

>>152087942
trying to wipe everybody else out by changing reality is not a legitimate pastime

>>152086862
this is true and people forget it but it's really very funny that all Mephisto got out of OMD was being a red pigeon for a bit