no

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>>152098225

>>152098225
Death Battle has done so much damage to Superman's image that people genuinely believe Superman never struggles or loses fights in his comics.

>>152098225
why do you people never consume anything besides shonenshit or capeshit

>>152098225
No, it's worse. Those American examples both get wrecked by some bullshit. A hack writer makes them job instead of bringing in something more convincingly powerful.

Something needs to be done about the latinx problem

>>152098225
Despite being an excellent artist, Toriyama wasn't exactly the most consistent writer.

>>152098225
American writers think they’re writing Goku when they write Bulma so it comes across that way

>>152098249
Death Battle is a plague upon fiction in general.

>>152098225
Japanese writers
>Please let me retire, I don't want to do this anymore, if you don't let me retire I'm going to directly plagiarize Superman II so the studio gets sued by Warner Bros and shut down

>>152099071
It didn't work

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>>152098225
>uh oh! goku's losing!
>better pull out another transformation that will be useless in the next arc!

>>152098249
This drives me insane. You need only need to watch or read a single Superman story to see this too. Lot of fake ass nerds out there talking about characters they never even read

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>>152098225
>Japanese writers never make characters who are invincible

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>>152098225
You really have to turn-off your brain for comics to work.

>>152098225
go back to /dbs/ fag

>>152099131
She has tiny hands

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>>152098249
>>152099094
Explain yourselves, superfags

>>152098225
Of fucking course not, this was clearly done by someone who has never actually read a comic in his life, and only vaguely remembers Dragon Ball.

>>152099070
I wish I could shove a real boomstick up the ass of that annoying fake southern trucker accent faggot

>>152099129
MP100 is a horrible example, the entire point of Mob as a character is that being extremely powerful as an individual is ultimately pointless when it comes to living your actual life as a person who exists as part of a larger collective (society).
He doesn't even get the things he wants in life from his borderline invincibility.

>>152099200
I've never read Superfag comics, I'm more of a Batfag guy myself, but in DBZ
>Goku dies beating the first major villain
>trains in Heaven with lessons from an "overgod"
>After getting resurrected gets the shit beat out of him so bad he's hospitalized
>Trains against 100x Earth gravity for months
>Gets the shit beat out of him AGAIN so bad his enemy has to shove him in a healing pod so they can fight the bigger enemy
>Dies of heart disease in an alternate timeline
>Jobs again and again
>Has to sacrifice himself to save everyone from a villain he couldn't beat on his own

The powerscaling shit only started getting bad in the Buu saga which Toriyama never wanted to right anyway, and only went off the rails in DBS.
You clearly talk like someone who's never watched DBZ

>>152099247
You are the fag

>>152099207
OPM on the hand gets tiresome really quick as it repeats the same joke ad nauseum.

>>152098249
>>152099070
death battle is gay but powerscaling in general is good

>>152099207
You just prove him right

>>152099207
> the entire point of Mob as a character is that being extremely powerful as an individual is ultimately pointless when it comes to living your actual life as a person who exists as part of a larger collective (society)
Superman faces the same dilemma with his Clark Kent alter ego, and anyway the point of the story is not the point of the thread. You said it yourself, Mob is borderline invincible, and the story makes that a crucial element.
Also even though I enjoy his works I've always found ONE's message to be incredibly stupid. Powerful individuals can and do bend society to their will all the time. The only reason good and evil are defined the way they are is because powerful forces say X is good and Y is evil.

>>152099267
Nice counterargument

>>152099178
It was a draw.

>>152099278
>Powerful individuals can and do bend society to their will all the time.
Yes, through their influence on the collective as a whole.
Not through immense individual power.
Not a single powerful person in history has ever accomplished anything because of their own individual prowess, it is almost always done through their ability to move and impact large groups within society itself. That's the entire point.
But I'm not OP, I don't agree with his retarded post, I'm just pointing out that Mob is a horrible example of some kind of power fantasy character because that's the exact opposite of what the story is about.

>>152098225
Yes
Notice that all the superfags can do is be racist towards you because they have no counter-argument.

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>>152099131
>That time Dan Slott broke the power scaling of Marvel but nobody gave a shit because it's MARVEL.

>>152098225
It's true, except Western writers also do it for villains. Batwank can only lose to Jokerwank.

>>152099308
That's the point though
Even though he "lost" he ended up winning. What did that one nepojew say in that video? "Death of Superman didn't kill Superman, it killed Death."

>>152099325
Fuck off, glue eater.

>>152098249
Death Battle is retarded but Superman had the problem long before they existed.

>>152098249
Consistency is an issue you’ll find with every character written by different people, more so when is a character like superman with editorial mandates, legacy or writers that seem to worship an ideal version of the character.

One day Flash is mind breaking Mordru with his speed or rescuing an entire city from a nuke before the shockwave reach them, other times he is getting beaten by Catwoman in a single kick, in some issues Superman is so fast he can learn medicine and perform surgery in a dying Lois in minutes, other times he is unable to save his dad from a heart attack.

Is a fools errand trying to measure all the bullshit 20 different people across time and space have written about an single guy.

>>152099287
What's wrong with Batman and Superman?

>>152099355
Nothing is wrong with Batman, I was just reusing the fag motif
I've never liked Superman so when I call him a fag it's genuine

>>152099332
> "Death of Superman didn't kill Superman, it killed Death."
Yes, and it's also been killing the comic book industry all these years.
Nobody likes it when a character dies and then comes back to life for no reason.
You can make your character as strong as you want, but when you make all the characters practically immortal, you've destroyed your universe.

>>152099247
You act like he was against with what he said. When all he said was vaguely remember.

>>152099355
They've been written by retards for years.
Batman is now a hypocritical beta male and Superman is gay; both are terrible fathers.

>>152099397
By saying the OP pic was written by someone who "vaguely remembers" Dragon Ball, he's implying that Goku does not in fact face challenges and near-defeats all the time and is subject to power scale wankery which as I pointed out isn't the case at all.
God I'm tired of 70 IQ ESLs with no critical thinking skills.

>>152099338
>no counterargument
You're proving my point.

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Weebs are such disgusting creatures

>>152099090
Imagine starting the series with the sequel and believing you're right.

If mods were actually interested in doing their fucking jobs, east vs west cancer would've been an instant nbannable offense.

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>>152099325
How's this for a counter argument, you nihongophilic little sewer rat?

>>152099131
>>152099327

Hideous art, awful dialogue, terrible run

>>152099479
East vs West are the least of this board's problems. At least these threads have discussion about Western /co/ properties.

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Seriously, weebs are so fucking retarded, they wind up getting laughed off of /a/. They spee some retarded ESL drivel, get mocked, and come crying over here to try and sooth their broken booty holes.
Mock these little faggots relentlessly.

Here's the core. That approach to superheroes as a modern version of old mythical ones always misses out on a key ingredient you really only find in old school writing.
The hero is still subject to God, the universe, fate, destiny. They do not know whether or not something has been chosen for them and there are always situations that they are helpless before even with all their strength. They could be as much an ass kicker as they wanted but the universe would inevitably start fucking with them.
Idealized in characters like Diomedes, the true solution was to remain humble before the unpredictability of it all and fight his internal battles to guide him through his external ones.

Japs used to be able to handle this in spades and I'd argue Dragon Ball kinda helped them lose it. You used to be able to have a fully formed warrior protagonist who would pass by all the bodies of those he failed to save or walk away from the life he wants to have because of a constant sense of tragedy looming over him. Like, shounen used to be defined by this kinda stuff

Superman can have this from time to time like Jon Kents, Batman has it so often it feels like they force certain moments just to have it or maintain status quo like Tom King's wedding arc. Spider-Man is a similar situation.

Before anyone mentions it, Man of Steel pretty much highlights why you can't do it with Superman, at least not too often. You can't have too much emotional strife since his cast are all the good caring supportive people who make him love humanity so much.

Because his villains are all big destructive figures and his failure to stop them is often "and the city gets destroyed."
I think a good example to show this is that in a lot of those old anime, so much is the hero wandering from point A to point B getting through obstacles while the villains do increasingly heinous shit. Once you add super-speed? You need to be a lot more selective about how the hero fails to stop something.

>>152099511
I mean, just because faggots sperging out about amerishart politics and third-world shills exist doesn't make these threads any less of a cancer.

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>>152099514
>spee
>sooth
and you project that others are ESL

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>>152099501
Wizard's Book of the Month!

>>152099467
What's your point? Here he's having trouble facing an enemy, proving that OP was right.
Let me guess, you're a Death Battle fan and you didn't read the OP and you thought it was an argument that Goku was stronger than Superfag?
You're retarded

>>152099485
After this he gets beaten up by the other girl, not a good counter-argument.

>>152099342
>Death Battle is retarded but Superman had the problem long before they existed.

Maybe in the silver age. But Superman hasn't had this issue since the 1970's; it's stupid that people think this is still accurate.

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>>152099528
Angry are we? Did my pointing out the truth cut too close to home Carlos?

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>>152099538
That's right fag boy, pretend not to notice. Keep spouting off retarded shit and pray nobody sees through your cope.

>>152099514
Wow, the guy shot and didn't kill the other guy, so powerful. He must be the strongest character in all of fiction.

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>>152099561
Counterargument? I'm just here to mock you weeb freaks.

>>152099511
>At least these threads have discussion about Western /co/ properties.
Its full of morons who pretend to know what they're talking about
People who hate western comics and cartoons yet insist on going to /co/
Fuck them
Fuck you
Get the Hell out

>>152099538
Superman is straighter than you; stop projecting.

>>152098225
Not at all, stupid Indian.
Most cherry-picked shit I've seen.
Also, go back to Twitter, stupid jeet.

>>152099580
Wow, this post proves nothing. I guess you forgot what we were arguing about.

>>152099525
The thing is, if every failing means the end of the world, you know the character is not going to loose.

>>152099607
>no u
Gay

>>152098225
The isekai genre alone disproves this ehole argument

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>>152099613
>P-p-pprovea nothing!
It proves that you are a slop consoomer of the lowest order, and that your shame causes you to lash out at your betters

>>152099627
You are, so fuck off with your projection

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>>152099591
HI Dan.
Still mad that nobody is storytiming your shitty Superman run?

>>152099637
That's a good counterargument, but not all isekai are like that. You had a chance to do something and you lost it by exaggerating.

>>152099649
lol, you're pathetic and you don't even realize it.

>>152099653
>no u again
Lmao

>>152099602
You get out, worthless.
You never contribute to non-bait threads, yet you'll always be found bitching in East v West threads. Not even contributing there, just bitching.

>>152099690
I'm right, you ass eater.

>>152099696
>You never contribute to non-bait threads
You don't know shit about what I post on /co/

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Notice just how quickly the weebs shift from smug self assurance to anally annihilated when you simply call them out for what they are? I've been banned multiple times just because I told these little freaks what I think of them and they went crying to the mods like little bitches.
Pathetic

>>152099707
>NO U
>>152099738
I noticed you're a faggot who doesn't know what the thread is about.

>>152099714
You're never in any of the threads I'm in, that's for sure. Aside from East vs West, of course.

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>l-l-l-lol, y-y-you're pathetic and you don't even REALIZE it.
Oh, you want so badly for me to say something bannable don't you? Well forget it weeb, I'm going to rub your face in your shitty opinions and make this thread a miserable sinkhole for you.

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>I noticed you're a faggot who doesn't know what the thread is about
That's it buddy boy, keep trying to pull things back to power level faggotry. Keep struggling

>>152099795
The thread is shit, so he's doing us a favor, you mongoloid

>>152099815
>hates anime
>posts in an anime website made by a weeb

>>152099797
I participate in storytimes
I show up in lost media threads
I frequent Win-O, stop motion threads, etc all the fucking time

>>152099864
>anime website
Nope, you delusional faggot

>>152099618
Pretty much.
It's a huge problem of not only escalating power levels but how we approach fight scenes these days. And this is objectively something Dragon Ball ruined in its "Z" era for anime and manga
Go back to something like Fist of the North Star or City Hunter. No matter how powerful badass and invincible the heroes were, the villains could be threats because power-levels accounted for. The fights came down to this idea of "who lands the decisive blow" and you just needed the hero getting injured to make you feel that was possible. It was street fight rules where you expect more lethal and even underhanded fighting than combat sports. I probably couldn't beat a heavyweight boxer but the rules can change if I get to bring a weapon and even more if I'm trained. Most Nanto users just need a good shot at Kenshiro's throat and he wins by not letting them have it.
Dragon Ball sorta ruined this around I'd say the Frieza arc.
What this means is every new villain for Superman or Goku needs some kinda city destroying, world destroying ability and equally destructive ambition.
The older characters could fight both the "world level" mega space warrior and the thuggish human-trafficking gangsters and cultists and feel believable in both scenarios creating more variety for villains and situations.

>>152099835
The thread was good until you guys showed up, superfags

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>>152099864
>U-u-u hate anime CHUD.
I love anime. I loved it before you were a bead of sweat on your daddy's ball sack.
What I hate are little try hard faggots like you trying to generate artificial conflict so you can feel like your actually winning something for once.

>>152099946
Fuck off, weebshitter, this is /co/.

>>152099939
Yes, but in most series the protagonist starts out weak and only becomes strong when they are about to face the main villain.
Superman started out being bulletproof, and since then he gets stupidly stronger for no reason.

>>152099960
Yes, and we're talking about comics.

>>152098225

Both are highly satanic because they're ripping off JESUS OF NAZARETH

>>152099873
>I participate in storytimes
I don't see you in them much, and you don't contribute to any comic book discussion threads.

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>>152099958

>>152099327
She beat a nobody guy who beat perennial loser Ben Grimm. Not like she punched out Galactus.

>>152100006
Nta But how can you know that?

>>152100006
Why the fuck would I mention anime and how much I hate off-topic threads in threads that are actually on-topic?

>>152100012
It really took away from Ben's story for cheap memberberries.

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>>152100007
>Pr-pr-projecting
Lol, that's all you can say. That's all you normies tier, Shonen Jump consooming little rats can say. I've got the bona fides that make you cry in jealous rage. The bona fides that the other users of /a/ had that allowed them to laugh at you for your supremely shit taste as well. Either get some better taste or lurk moar.

>>152100003
Fuck off, tranny

>>152098225
Of course it is, that's why Goku loses all the time. American comics writers don't have to worry about little things like "keeping the lights on" or "not advancing the plot for two decades", so they just give fans what they want. Unless it's Didio.

>>152098225
Goku hasn't lost a fight and have it actually matter to the story. Every loss is just a temporary set back before he unlocks a new power up. When Batman loses a fight, he retreats and comes up with a new strategy.

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>>152099131

>>152100071
All the gifs you posted are from anime I haven't seen, idiot.
And I like shonen, but I like all kinds of anime genres.

>>152100110
Goku died to fucking Piccolo.

>>152100110
Your post is contradictory. You say Goku never loses, but then when he does lose, it doesn't matter to the story. And then you say that when Batman does the same, it's okay.

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>>152100135

>>152100018
Because a lot of the time, I'M the only motherfucker in those threads, aside from the thread creator.
>>152100059
You don't mention anything.

>>152100172
>no counter-argument.

>>152100177
>I'M the only motherfucker in those threads, aside from the thread creator.
If you're talking about decades old capeshit storytimes, those I largely don't participate in those

>>152099649
>a slop consoomer of the lowest orde
says the fucking capeshit fan, seriously this isn't even a 100th of as stupid as your average capeshit book

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>>152100135
Holy shit you're even more of a normie than I first though ESL-kun!

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>>152100196
Your defensiveness only proves me right boy, keep it up.

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hey guys not to spoil your fun but op is a transsexual reddit using spic that mainly post in the Death Battle General and got rejected by a Superman cosplayer

>>152098443
Because SoL is for pedos like (You)

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imagine trying to look down on anime while reading this

>>152100110
>Luffy hasn't lost a fight and have it actually matter to the story. Every loss is just a temporary set back before he unlocks a new power up
FIFY

>>152100313
I can do both.
Do not pretend anime is some infallible utopia.

>>152100232
>normie
Newfag
>>152100305
>Death Battle General
Everyone in that place is gay, it's like a prison there.

>>152098992
This

>>152100345
It still doesn't make sense. Either you don't lose or it doesn't matter when you lose, it can't be both at the same time.

>>152098443
>I'm so old and fragile I need young people to live vicariously as my only shot at happiness
>If the world wanted to rape and torture everything wouldn't that be fucked up? THIS IS DEEP.
>I'm so fucking sad man I'm so fucking miserable I wanna kill myself and my mom god I fucking hate myself
I'll take shonen

>>152100307
Nice projection, fag

>>152100367
Do you admit that you read crap?

>>152099983
Yeah, but the same can be said for a lot of the 70s and 80s protags. Like I said, the difference is you'd let the villains get punches, cuts, stabs, et cetera on them
In Supes case the issue is that the villains need either massive powers or Kryptonite weaponry or something to reliably hurt him.
This is where a new facet comes in tho. A lot of modern stories fucking suck at a sense of mysticism. The best way to demonstrate it is to compare the OG Star Wars trilogy to everything after it. In A New Hope, Luke doesn't just telekinesis the photon torpedo down. It's more like he wills it and this mysterious "force" grants the wish. Over the course of the trilogy, we see this "force" is so much more than what we thought, able to connect the living and the dead. We see him learn to harness it both in himself and the world around him and unlock a few consistent skills with it, then out of nowhere the bad guy shows he can use this same "force" to conjure lightning out of his fingers. The powers of the light side, the dark side, it was all a higher mystic power to us.
Even before you got to the midichlorians in the prequels, the EU had already basically just turned it into a more concise power list.
And this comes in when "he walked through the fire/he kept going with the bullet wound in him" or "he survived the blast/the fall/the sub zero temperatures" used to just be allowed to be mystical moments where you felt the character had tapped into something supernatural about their own badassery and was still allowed to get hurt normally.
Modern audiences seem unable to accept that kind of storytelling now.

>>152099247
t. Brown hands typed this.

>>152100560
Learn to read

>>152099983
Goku literally starts the Manga by shrugging off bullets. I mean I get your point but its a very funny comparison to make considering. Its literally one of the first things we see him do.

>>152098225
i wonder when will retards here stop sucking on Japans dick like the fag they are

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Most other manga protagonists are nothing like Goku. And even Goku was a shitty overpowered protagonist once.

>>152100723
It's moreso that the series became an entirely different series halfway through.

>>152100313
I've just come to call this "sciencewank", bringing actual science into a fantastic situation can be cool if the writers actually know the science and how to apply it in a fun (and it's usually just regular applied physics or chemistry.)
Cool. Fun.
But there are writers who you can tell just wanna jump up and down saying "LOOK GUYS MATH AND SCIENCE WE'RE SO COOL AREN'T WE SO COOL!"
Characters constantly speak in techno-babble or show off how much math they know. Rather than thinking, "oh, wouldn't it be cool if scientific thing were used here", you can tell the writer google-fu'd something that would be theoretically possible with the powers at play.
It's genuinely become one of the most eye-rolling things for me in capeshit because it's why every fucking new character has to have a very specific super advanced tech and theoretical quantum mechanics background, but we can't just have "normal fucking zoologist uses their knowledge of animals in tandem with their animal powers to do cool shit that you wouldn't conventionally think of"
Because that's not EPIC NERDY SCIENCE enough.

Reminder that no matter how pathetic you may find weebs they are higher on the social totem pole than comicfags.

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>>152100345
What does that even mean? Does the character need to die and uproot the entire plot for a loss to matter?

>>152099269
Powerscaling has been a blight on discussion long before Death Battle was even a thing. It is never just about analyzing a fictional feats using real world science to see how strong a character really is, but instead used as ammo for "My dad can beat your dad!" style popularity contests. Anybody with a brain can tell why shit like that is miserable to interact with.

>>152100904
So?

>>152100904
Sad but true.

>>152101794
Nope

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>>152100984

>>152098225
This is more the difference between an original creator of a character and universe, and a fanboy who grew up on a series and landed a writing gig. They are not going to ever portray the character they fanboy'ed over their childhood as someone who loses fights.