Something's up with the show BESIDES the schizophrenic elephant in the room I shan't talk about. Charlie seems to be a newcomer in her own setting - she had to be introduced to Cannibal Town and Rosie - who is super duper powerful - by Alasator.Yes I know we can just call it shitty writing but hmm. Consider my almonds(all two of them) activated. This could get bonkers. Shit, there might be more clues but that means having to ACTUALLY WATCH THE SHOW instead of JUST THE SONGS arrrgh
>>152157032Both of Viv's shows would be better with a perspective character instead of dumping all the lore in interviews and her socials. Not even the show's official socials, Viv's fucking Xwitter.
>>152157032>she had to be introduced to Cannibal Town and Rosie - who is super duper powerful - by Alasator.Most royalty don't actually know specific subsections of their kingdoms, and the Overlords are strong amongst sinners but they're still pretty low on the totem pole - the Morningstars (and to a lesser extent the Sins) probably expect the nobility of the Ars Goetia to bridge the gap and handle any significant interactions with the sinners.
>>152157076Yeah maybe but as I understand it>Charlie Morningstar is thousands of years old>Charlie Morningstar resides in the Pride ring of Hell - curiously, where all the humans end up as sinners>Despite residing in one very limited section of Hell, she doesn't know Rosie nor does she know Cannibal Town>She gives a grand musical number at the beginning of the show about how much she loves Hell as her home, even showing fondness for the bukkake halls which is rather specificSo either she's one big ole pervert, or she's a thousands year old demon ojou-sama that knows very little about a major part of the limited section of Hell that she dwells in. But wait, why would she be limited to the Pride section of Hell oh maybe I should just stop.
>>152157122No no see you'd have a point if Charlie were shown in the other rings of Hell but afaik we don't see her in Helluva Boss. It wouldn't take much to falsify whatever theory I'm cooking up if Vivzie clarifies stuff on her twitter and says "Oh yeah Charlie took vacations to wrath in the summer" or something like that.
I want to FUCK Emily
>>152157240To be fair, we ARE talking about Hell. Who knows how big the Pride ring actually is?
>>152157299Hmm, duly noted, but on that note - isn't it weird that the Radio Demon has to be introduced to Charlie by Vaggie - Vaggie who is by all accounts a relatively recent arrival?
>>152157318Well, actually never mind. The pilot's not explicitly canon, and episode 1 shows Alastor already in Charlie's employ. This creates ambiguity to how long Charlie has known him. If the pilot were canon I could decisively point at that as proof positive of another oddity, but right now it's sort of just kind of canon.
>>152157032>harlie seems to be a newcomer in her own settingShe's daughter of the living embodiment of pride and the princess of all of hell and lived pretty lived as a royal for her whole life before deciding to open the hotel and try and help sinners (which her father, the royals, other sins, hellborn, etc don't give a fuck about since they're all stuck in the pride ring)
>>152157032>the exterminations only started 7 years ago>Lilith disappeared 7 years ago >season 1 starts with Charlie reading a children's storybook inb4 Charlie is retconned into being a 7 years old hom(o)unculus
>>152157417Fair enough I suppose, but we haven't seen her outside the Pride ring so far either.
>>152157430I was thinking something along those lines too.
>>152157448>this wasn't even Lilith
>>152157444Well she dated a demon from Envy at some point. She probably is just focusing on sinners because she thinks she can help in her home ring instead of being an imp abolitionist or whatever.
>>152157076>Shark demons are supposed to be above imps on the hierarchy You wouldn't know that from watching the show. Every shark we've seen works for an imp and they get repeatedly slaughtered by IMP. They've only been shown beneath imps in power and status.
>>152157076>Sinners are above native denizens of Hellthere is some lore here just surface level ready to dump
>>152157448>Sinners are above native denizens of HellThere's some pretty deep lore just waiting to be dumped.153221241This is the right thread, I'm sorry.I am really curious about the other shows though and how they're doing with them.Any updates?154236208>>unknown (OP)>She goes from a very depressed person to an incredibly happy person after getting some help and companionship.
>>152157165Viv is a shit writer, she can’t world build, she can’t make good characters, she can’t keep anything consistent. All she has is waifufaggotry, shipfaggotry, and regular faggotry. She is basically writing some crappy musical art hoe fanfic set in Abrahamic mythology while leaving out everything that compromises her “vision”. In a just world this shit would have never been greenlit or gained any modicum of popularity. It would have just stayed some niche tumblr shit for sweaty fujos and faggy theater kids.
>>152157538>>152157564I doubt the lore is that deep. The lore exists to tell the gay broadway story Viv wants to, you're supposed to just go with it. Like nobody is ever actually questioning why Mr Mistoffelees is so magical.
hazbin hotel is the kind of media where you're supposed to shut off the part of your brain that questions things when you watch it and just go along with whatever is presented
>>152157638No you just need to use your brain differently like notice that Vox invented shark week or all the background gags/plot happening
>>152157638I just pretend every character has extreme brain damage and it all makes way more sense
>>152157568Leaving out things that compromise your vision is just normal writing, that has nothing to do with why its bad
>>152157847When it’s fundamental to the setting which you’re using it is. She should have just made her own world with her or gay afterlife shit. I mean for fuck sake she left out Jesus.
Y'all need Conan. No really Robert E. Howard wrote out an entire prehistory, the rise and fall of some kingdoms as a way to populate his world with places to explore
>>152158072idc
>>152157252I need to correct her IMMEDIATELY
>>152157538>Lucifer and Eve unleash evil upon earth>Hell and its Pride ring are created to punish Lucifer>all of Eve’s descendants who sin are also sent to Pride, as their own eternal punishment and to taunt Lucifer>Lucifer creates the Ars Goetia, who are modeled after his favorite angel buddies like The Speaker of God and the Seraphim class of angels>Somehow, the other six deadly sins wind up in Hell. Or maybe Satan was already there. Depends on if you believe Satan over Vivzie>the six lesser Sins below Lucifer each get their own ring and each create their own Hellborn class to populate it>for some reason, Satan/Wrath’s creation, the imps, and Beelzebub/Gluttony’s creation, the hellhounds, are considered shittier than the denizens of Lust, Greed, Sloth, and EnvyThat’s what I got so far.
>>152157499>yfw you're a hellborn and your princess refers to the isekai'd humans as "my people"
>>152157430>>152157448Charlie being 200 years old supposedly hasn't been canon for years and it was said by someone who not only doesn't work on the show, she and Viv haven't been friends for a good long time.
>>152157032apparently lucifer is viv's favoritecan't wait for the influx of charlie x lucifer art
>>152158864bot post? very strange
>>152158905i'm not a bot
>>152158842So Lilith and Lucifer were “madly in love” (Vivzie’s words) for thousands of years but waited until ~20 years from the start of the show to actually have a kid?
>>152157032How does it go on Miguel?
>>152157032>Yes I know we can just call it shitty writing but hmmhow is "chacter who doesnt know this person needs to be introduced by a mutual friend" bad writing?why would charlie know everyone?
>>152159000If you're immortal then yeah why not wait 10,000 years to have a kid? Tbh for Lucifer that's probably not a lot of time.
>>152159180>Tbh for Lucifer that's probably not a lot of time.Yeah imagine you just stop aging at like 35 and then just stay in the honeymoon phase for a few thousand years.
>>152159068>why would charlie know everyone?For starters there's been confusion over Charlie's age that Viv hasn't clarified (other than she's not actually over two-hundred) which has led to people thinking she should be more experienced than she is. Then there are those who just have unreasonable expectations for a character right off the bat: Charlie SAYS she cares about sinners and wants to help them, therefore she should've started the show already knowing who's who otherwise she's insincere or it's bad writing. It's been made pretty clear now though that Charlie being out of touch with the sinners is an intentional character flaw.
>>152159237The issue of Charlie’s age does bother me. Initially I just sort of assumed she was in her early 20s. I honestly think that clears up a lot of issues with her. She acts like a clueless womanchild young adult because she is one. Problem solved.But then I started hearing rumor that she’s supposed to be over 100 years old? Which, really doesn’t improve anything and only raises further questions.
>>152159283Lucifer is tens of thousands of years old at minimum and is a silly manchild
>did nothing wrong
>>152159326He did do something wrong. He apparently didn’t fuck Lute when she was basically begging for his dick all the time.
>>152159310>manchildNah he’s just a (fallen) angel. All of them are apparently kind of whimsical like he is, just look at Emily. Also a manchild wouldn’t have a wife or daughter.
>>152157165>Charlie Morningstar is thousands of years oldCharlie is in her 20s
>>152157032I love watching fatherless titty streamers start bawling whenever they get to this part during their react streams.
>>152159363Manchildren get married all the time. Ever been to Disney?
>>152159405Those guys are married to womenchildren. They aren’t there of their own volition.
>>152159283>Which, really doesn’t improve anything and only raises further questions.It does if you assume she's been sheltered almost her entire life. But, then again, we know precisely dick about her home life.
What are the odds that Lilith is a misunderstood good guy instead of a surprise antagonist?
>>152159470There’s been an implication that she has been at least somewhat estranged from her father from a young age stemming from some kind of separation between her parents around then. And it seems like she’s always been a lot closer to her mom than her dad, hence the voice mails she keeps leaving her mom’s number.And yeah, aside from that we know dickall. And all of the above could easily be retconned, given the show’s track record.
>>152159479I’d say the chances could be pretty high up there. Especially if any of those identity switcheroo theories between her and Eve and/or Rosie shake out.
>>152159581>murders his father in cold bloodGod I hope they show his actual crimes (and canon human form) in S3.
>>152159587That would be such a massive retcon though. Vox straight up said that Lilith wanted hell to revolt against heaven and he was around back when she was the active queen of hell.
>>152159612And Charlie, who was also there, has said that was a bold faced lie.
>>152159635Charlie is ~20 years old. She was a teenager when Lilith left. Vox meanwhile has been in hell for like 70 years. The other sinners also seemed to agree with him so it didn’t really come off as a lie.
>>152159650Charlie is 180 years old.
>>152159662See >>152158842
Charlie is a GILF
>>152159684Lilith definitely (hate) fucked Adam again in heaven at least once.
Charlie is cuter with human feet.
Anyone else think it’s funny that Vivzie obviously hates Adam’s enduring popularity? Like she even added that weird scene where he and Lute beat the fuck out of that lesbian angel for just existing solely to make us dislike him.
>>152157638>you're supposed to shut off the part of your brain that questions thingsExcept for when bullshit comes up like when a character directly states some potentially important worldbuilding lore, but you’re meant to extrapolate that they’re just lying, because a couple other characters rolled their eyes and pulled some ambiguous face expressions for a half of a second while he said it. Yes, I know this happened in Helluva Boss and not Hazbin, but they’re confirmed the same universe now that they’ve been granted crossover clearance.
>>152159703Her feet should be human since neither parents have hooves. Hooves are stupid for erect bipedalism too, they are an evolutionary cope to make land movement on ground better at the cost of losing all of your toes.
>>152159754They definitely just needed a rhyme and it was super close to the deadline or something.
>>152159754What in the actual fuck are the sins?
>>152159715I don’t think that was why that was in there. If Viv was really salty about people liking Adam, she could just write him out of the show and let him stay dead and never bring him up again. But instead she went out of her way to bring him back in schizophrenic hallucinated ghost form.
>>152159762I think Vivzie is using Supernatural (the show) logic and basically treating hell like heaven’s prison/garbage bin. Therefore a lot of beings that were created by god prior to angels might have ended up there before Lucifer’s arrival.
>>152159762The dudes Lucifer should have fucking called in the second Vox started getting uppity.
>>152159794>expecting the embodiment of sinful pride to ask for help
>>152159762They could be fellow fallen angels who for whatever reason followed Lucifer out of Heaven when he was banished. Or maybe they came into being from humanity committing the various sins they are meant to embody. Or they could have been created by, or otherwise bear relation to, their implied Angelic Virtue counterparts, who may or may not exist in Heaven.
>>152159794Vox could solo satan. Sinners are stronger than demons.
>>152159756Show me Lilith’s and Lucifer’s feet.
>>152159794The shit with Amazon that forces HB and HH to never having crossovers at that time really hurts the later episodes because HB has the most World Building that HH could have used to answer some questions>>152159801You'd at least think the King of Pride would want to maintain the lie that he's totally in control. He gains nothing but the loss of his pride by trying to intimidate Vox. Sure, Lucifer doesn't know that Vox knows about his weakness but Lucifer should be more cautious about how he presents himself around a bunch of faggots that openly do not respect his daughter
>>152159825Yeah isn’t the prevailing fan theory that Lucifer created certain hellborn races specifically to torture/control sinners? Why not call them up?
>>152159801All the sins except Mammon showed they know when to not recklessly indulge in their own vices and even go against the things they represent. Lucifer would have been too prideful to ask for help at the start, but when Charlie was threatened he should have asked for help for his daughter's sake. He can't go on whingy sad "a bloo bloo bloo I love my daughter I miss my family" tangents and then turn around and say "lol sorry kiddo not gonna help you out cuz I'm too prideful".
>>152159817>>152157076
>>152159837The idea is that he created the Goetias, so guys like Stolas and Paimon. Why he doesn't call them up to deal with some uppity Sinner likely has to do with Goetias being a HB thing and not a HH thing so given the restriction placed by Amazon Lucifer can't do anything other than job to a guy with a tv for a head
>>152159852Vox could definitely take a effete fag like Stolas tho.
>>152159715No mfer; y'all are salty that Adam is straight up evil, which is what she's BEEN saying. Viv has said he's one of her favorites. Him and Lute are abusers. Cope
>>152159959“Abuse” is part of military discipline.
Pisses me off that Vivziepop retconned the idea that being gay sends you to hell (which was pervasive in the pilot.) Lots of LGBT youth loved the queer friendly environment it presented and the fact that there was no expectation of changing for heaven.
>>152160004That was not in the pilot at all.
>>152160004Y'all nutty bitches be pulling shit out of your ass with the pilot. That shit was not in the pilot. Lucifer being menacing was not in the pilot. The Exterminations having been going on for thousands for years was not in the pilot. Y'all are just mad your headcanon fantasies didn't come true
>>152160002And the military is brainwashing we tacitly accept as a grim necessity what lunatic celebrates it
>>152160136I used to live near a military base. The amount of civilian women who fucked soldiers with Adam’s exact mindset was insane. Vivzie herself probably fantasizes about being thrown against a wall by the dickmaster.
