Disney is celebrating Zootopia 2 being its biggest animated hit ever with Inside Out 2, but at the same time is facing down a massive morality crisis constantly brought up. Disney is physically unable to make new IP to replenish its dying old IP.Zootopia and 2010s IPs are huge now, but they will not resonate forever to new gens, the way a lot of their pre-90s IPs do not. Everything that is not a sequel has bombed since Coco in 2017, despite maybe Encanto getting an audience for a bit. The past decade has been entire misfires and bombs, and while they are shit films they are no more shit than Inside Out 2, Toy Story 4, Incredibles 2, etc which succeeded. Even the future round like Gatto or Hexed they almost already wrote off as bombs. Less worry but also a concern is the sequels reduced the critical regard and brand quality of the company, seen how they cannot at times even be nominated for Oscars anymore.They mood is not celebratory at Disney because this is something that Disney will die over if they do not resolve. Kids will not forever be attached to Frozen or Zootopia or Toy Story, they can only be milked so much. Once they become old to people then the real crisis begins.
Unrelated but if Disney made a Club Penguin style Zootopia game it would be absolute fire.
>>152179579Kids don't want gay therapy art
>>152179699Yeah they do, as long as it is a sequel gay therapy artSee: Inside Out 2, Zootopia 2, Toy Story 4
>>152179579When you look at all of Disney they seem to be in a creative rut compared to the good old days, but when you look at just their original ideas, it's a rollercoaster>Lady and the Tramp (the book was created by Disney to get a definitive script to work from)>Aristocats>Atlantis>The Emperor's New Groove>Lilo & Stitch>Brother Bear>Bolt>Wreck it Ralph>Zootopia>Raya>Encanto>Strange World >Wish
>>152179579Disney keeps kneecapping their own movies for no fucking reason. Zootopia managed to stick the landing anyways despite being totally neutered thanks to the furry audience, but Elio didn't have that advantage, so when they completely stripped out half of the fucking plot for some bullshit nobody cares about, nobody watched it.>>152179699Therapy art can be good when it's allowed to actually have some degree of BITE. Fuck's sake, the original Lilo&Stitch is a barely-disguised rant about the mistreatment of Hawaiian natives by white tourists and an uncaring government and what that does to the children stuck in that system. Then you go look to that dogshit remake and they completely strip all of the actual bite of that premise because actually telling a story is too upsetting to overly-sensitive focus groups.
>>152179579disney nowadays is both too gay but not gay enough at the same time. so its just has no public outside nostalgiafags
>>152179731>Wish
I'm hardly a Disney watcher, but Win or Lose was great, I wish they would make more shows like that.The problem with discussion about Disney is it's wide enough to appeal to such a variety of people who have such diverse ideological programming, inevitably everyone is going to have some skitzo opinion about Disney shows, as if they are sensitive to whatever cultural radiation is going to influence others. So it's instantly tedious to share one's own opinion and join the sewer pissing brigade for no real benefit to anyone.
>>152179579It's not that their old properties wouldn't resonate, it's that they're super bad at marketing them, neutering everything instead.
>>152179747That's part of the problem: modern Yidney is risk adverse to high heavens, you aren't getting anything with "bite" past the cutting room floor when shareholders are the ones making decisions and there's no figure like Walt to walk up and tell them "no."
>>152179815No one is watching Tranny Baseball. Buy an ad.
>>152179818Their old properties were ruined by greed. When people imagine any film from before 2000, they imagine the story depth and animation quality of the Direct-to-Video sequel instead. The animators warned them this would happen, and Disney didn't listen.
>>152179579OP is being over-dramatic and histrionic. That is all.
>>152179579Honestly they should just go back to something simple; do a Robin Hood where they remake a classic story with anthro characters, DON'T FUCK IT UP BY TRYING TO INSERT MORALS NOT ALREADY PRESENT (hardest step for these chucklenuts), and put it out there
>>152179980Disney is not capable of being sincere anymore. Any remake must subvert the male hero in some way.
>>152179747they spent over 150 million remaking Elio to strip out the whole gay subplot, a gay subplot would have made it more interesting because as is it's a fine, but dull kids movie. They also tried to bury it, spending so little on advertising it was absurd. This was a solid 3/5 movieDisney also sabotaged Turning Red and Luca, because they wanted to focus on potential franchises. How do you turn Luca into a franchise? or Elio?
>>152179980When are they going to do more furry shakespeare. Give us The Lion King 5: Taming of the Shrew.
>just established Zootopia as a billion dollar printing IP>oh noes the sky is falling
>>152179579>>152179731Why don't they just do a Red Riding Hood movie? It's the most famous fairy tale that they've never adapted.
>>152180225If they only manage to make one every 19 years it's not the machine you think it is
>>152179907Yep, basically this. It's the same problem that movie and game studios have been suffering from for decades - the suits running the show are so afraid that products that take chances will fail, that they end up making everything as bland and safe as possible and end up guaranteeing failure as a result.>Let's only make sequels and spinoffs for existing IPs.>OH NO! Everyone's burnt out on all these sequels and spinoffs and all our movies are failing!>Let's make new IPs, but let's get rid of anything that might be too distressing for kids or polarizing for parents.>OH NO! Everyone is fucking bored by this bland slop and all our movies are failing!>Let's only make megabudget films so they all break box office records.>OH NO! Two of the three movies we made flopped and we're three billion dollars in the hole!Forty years ago Hollywood was releasing upwards of 800 movies a year; most of these were small-to-mid budget films that were just some writer/director's vision for an interesting story. Not all of them were hits, but the industry was churning enough movies at a low-enough cost that audiences could be pretty steady and you'd reliably see one in every five or six movies turn a modest profit; enough to keep the studio in the black for the year. And then once every couple of years the studio would put a big budget behind some summer movie that'd do really well.Now Hollywood releases maybe a hundred wide theatrical films a year and maybe a dozen turn a profit.
>>152180225Problem is, Zootopia can only print money so much, and you can only have so many Zootopias. It probably has around 3 films left in it at most, and that is if they keep hitting as big as these do (3rd will if this is the Nick/Judy dating film) Will kids 20 years from now care about Zootopia? Probably not, Zootopia might be a thing done in a decade. How will Disney attract them if you only have 50 year old boomer IPs as your only films since you stunted making any new IPs they might like? What happens when these films have reached the end of useful life as film series?
>>152180468>What happens when these films have reached the end of useful life as film series?REBOOTS, SON! REFRESHES THE FRANCHISE FOR ANOTHER GENERATION OF CONSUMERS!
>>152180086>a gay subplot would have made it more interesting because as is it's a fine,No it wouldn't have. Elio is just not an endearing character and watching him be a little faggot wouldn't have helped.
>>152179579Can we maybe stop with the ugly grub hub friendly character designs. I know this is a crazy idea but what if you made your movies beautiful again?
Disney could just hire better creatives.
>>152180086>they spent over 150 million remaking Elio to strip out the whole gay subploGo back and watch the old trailers, they stripped out a fuckload more than just a "gay subplot". It's practically a different movie entirely, same as what they did to Zootopia.
>>152179699TADC is gay therapy art and obscenely popular. It's also insanely marketable. The real takeaway is quality doesn't actually matter for something being popular.
>>152181138Hate speech
>>152180468>guys they've only made 1 billion dollar per movie franchise in the last month>it's fucking OVER
>>152181159>TADC is gay therapy art and obscenely popular.With grown up internet weirdos
>>152180138If they don't want to do fairy tales then Shakespeare and ballet are great sources to pull stories from. And making it with animal leads is a great idea too. If they go with Shakespeare they have to go with some of the simpler comedies (maybe The Tempest?). For ballets maybe something like La Sylphide? Or figure out a way to make The Nutcracker or Swan Lake work.
>>152181474>Nick Bottom is just a regular donkey man among the anthro castCould work honestly
>>152180086I don't think the gay subplot would have worked at all. I don't think wimpy shrimpy male leads are endearing to audiences in general.
>>152180086>>152180992>>152181489The problem with Elio is that it's not actually an adventure FOR BOYS, it's not created as a fantasy for them or to appeal to them. It's an adventure that single moms and bluehairs who hate masculinity WANT boys to have. It's the adventure they have decided that boys SHOULD want, rather than the one boys actually want. It even features a Strong Single Mother.
>>152181517The problem is that Disney simply does not do good action. I think a lot of adults have an image of what children are like and what they should like and what is appropriate for them that is completely at odds with what kids, especially boys, *actually like*. You can't do the sort of action or daring-do that appeals to boys on a PG rating, full stop. In decades past you could, because there were fewer options and less accessible. Now? Children, boys in particular given this discussion, can reliably demonstrate their true preferences. What suits consider good material that kids of the 80s were pleased with is now considered total baby shit by modern kids with options. Disney is also hampered whenever they use minor aged protagonists because parents, even dads, do not want their kids talking back or behaving badly after they get home having been badly influenced by a film. So child/teen protagonists are restricted in their characterization to flatter parents. When the kids come into conflict with their parents (like in Turning Red) the parents in the audience complain, and I get it. There's more flexibility with adult protagonists (you can always make them animals if that would be more palatable).
>>152181474They were willing to adapt Victor Hugo and greek mythology. Pretty much anything is on board. They could do a disney version of the Shahnameh and probably do an okay job of it. What they need to do is tell decent heroic and romantic stories.
>>152179579All they need to do is have directors that want to make a fucking entertaining movieand fire the directors who want to turn their films into a 2 hour therapy session about their parents. that's pretty much it.
>>152179980This has worked for them twice now. They had no idea what in the fuck to make in the 70s and 80s. fumbled around and made some weird shit and experimented some, then they went back to classic fairy tales with Little Mermaid and had a renaissance. Then in the 2000s they had no idea what to make, fumbled around and experimented with weird random shit. Then they went back to classic fairy tales and made Tangled and had a second Renaissance. At this point they should know goddamn well what to do.
>>152180138We need Lion King Tempest first. Simba, Nala, Timon and Pumbaa wash up on an island run by a wizard, his fairy slave, and his demon guardian.
>>152181820Timon and Pumba are dead
>>152181715This. The directors are even very open about it. Turning Red, Elio, and that new short Pixar did. Directors all yammered on in interviews about how>this isn't for everyone, this is for me and working through my stupid shitand then being fucking shocked when nobody wants to watch a two hour movie about your mommy and daddy issues.
>>152179579Can they just stop with the weird wimpy freak kid main character that spends the movie being picked on and hated by everybody? That shit is never really all that entertaining. I cannot even think of a single wimpy freak kid movie that has performed well. Audiences tend to like the capable hot princess, or the cool scoundrel way more. Even the goofy lovable loser does a lot better. But dorky wimpy kid that is picked on by all just makes for a bland movie not many people care about.
>>152180237It's basically a story about a sexual predator. I'm not saying that Disney's version would be that, but the whole story is "don't trust strangers, strangers are dangerous, obey parents and authority figures", and while that can be good in the right context it's not really the setup for a good traditional Disney movie.Hoodwinked is an example of the story being "good" or at least fun by going completely off the rails. You'd need that level of subversion to give it some Disney whimsy.
>>152179980'Shades of classic story with a spin' was a staple for movies for decades, I don't know why we suddenly decided to stop. Where's your modern animated equivalent of like an O Brother Where Art Thou or something?
It has nothing to do with properties. For fuck's sake all of Disney's biggest films were public domain characters.It's a result of creative rot from the top down that's been in place for a very long time. They staved it off temporarily by buying out Pixar and poaching their whole team but that stopgap has reached its breaking point.There just aren't any good directors or writers in place to make anything that can break through. The old ones quit without training protege and the execs still just want the cheapest danger hairs they can pull out of Full Sail.I'd say they should hire out of some good art schools but these days those are no better than Full Sail (read: day care and diploma mill). They can't find anyone to teach the classics and fundamentals because so few people these days know them.
>>152180237Because it's too short to make a real full length movie out of it. And even then they did make two Hoodwinked movies 20 years ago.
>>152181804>>Then in the 2000s they had no idea what to make, fumbled around and experimented with weird random shit. Then they went back to classic fairy tales and made Tangled and had a second Renaissance.But Tangled and the movies after it fucking sucked.
>>152180237Studios were complaining how that was massively overdone back in the early 1940s. That's how we got Red Hot Riding Hood.
>>152179660you just reminded me that this happened
>>152180138Or a cartoon version of some 80s-90s movie like Doc Hollywood and Cars.
>>152181267>With grown up internet weirdosI've seen TADC merch while just out buying groceries. It's objectively popular and not niche.
They're going to reboot The Great Mouse Detective and it's just going to be live action, and it's going to be called The Great Detective, and it's going to star John Oliver and Awkwawafina, and Dwayne Johnson as Ratigan.
>>152181867That would mean the director would need to stop self-inserting when writing, which is clearly impossible in modern Disney.
>>152181867>Can they just stop with the weird wimpy freak kid main character that spends the movie being picked on and hated by everybody?Yeah they should make a weird wimpy freak adult woman main character like Judy Hopps
>>152181900>I don't know why we suddenly decided to stopBecause the art world got up its own ass about originality and deconstruction
>>152182281That would require them to remember it in the first place.
>>152182328The cool scoundrel carried that movie.
>>152181867It's a good idea to make your hero some kind of oddball or outcast but there has to be something more to them than just being weird and pathetic. Aladdin was a street smart street rat who had to steal to survive but showed he had noble qualities. Mulan was inventive and clever but had trouble fitting into what society expected of her. These were engaging characters who were both empathetic but also heroic.
The Pied Piper or the Princess and the Zoe’s would be great to make.
Man why I am engaging in a random thread with deleted replies? Why do I even scroll through here these days if it's bad for my eyesight and my mental health?
Disney needs to bring back princess romance stories. That's where the money was. We need more movies where the prince falls in love with the random small village woman he bumped into or where the princess marries the homeless criminal.
>>152179980Given Zootopia was so big and they are already making a 2028 anthro film (assuming it is not Mickey Mouse and they are holding that info) then yes, they are going back to this
>>152182635Just romance in general really. I don't know why everyone suddenly is so against love. Romance and adventure were the most basic of human stories and were the ones that were always the most captivating.
>>1521826742028 is the Daisy & Minnie movie
>>152182693Parents groups complained about it sending the wrong message. That it would encourage girls to be boy crazy and not develop themselves and would give them unrealistic expectations of love. Also I don't think boys really dig romance stories anyway.
>>152182723It's not as if a lot of the heroines were going GAGA for boys and were without any agency of their own. And while young boys might not seem like they want romance if there's a cool dragon fight or something they'll be down for it. You remember princess bride how at first Kevin Arnold wanted to skip past all the mushy stuff Columbo was reading to him but by the end he was okay? Boys don't want pure romance but romance as part of an adventure appeals to everyone.
my biggest personal issue with disney/pixar stuff now is a general dislike of how character are designed, like in onward, elio, turning redit's just so uglythat aside I think they've really lost the boy's action movie audience pretty hard
