You remember them don't you? All those moments of adventure and friendship? Moments were characters were heroic and good? Share some why don't you. They were good times. Who were your favorite characters? Your favorite stories? Something that lives in your mind. Remember what we were.
We were such good friends.
I should clarify it doesn't have to be all happy and rainbows. Good sad moments are nice. this was a good comic book. Under Siege. You should go read it. I think you'd like it.
Vision joining the avengers. That was a good comic book.
This was actually one of the first X-men comics I've read. Interesting way to start a series but I won't lie I really did feel for some characters I didn't know.
>>152240331awwww. I can see why Logan might feel ignored by God when he basically can't die. He's like that soldier guy that defeated Death and then captured some demons in a bag..Uh, good times? I remember reading old OLD Spider-Man comics (reproductions I'm sure) in a children's dentist office, including one where he shrinks stupidly tiny, and one where he fights the Lizard and fuckin Curt is spouting some top tier 60s banter
>>152241112I think it's more to do with how firsthand he is to seeing how awful people can be to people. The animated series covered something similar too. It was a good episode with frank discussions.
>>152241387yeahhh I know.. god that show was amazing. I remember even back then as a damn... 7 or 8 year old, being like "wow, they're allowed to talk about religion? it's forbidden everywhere else.."To think Canada used to be the source of freedom like that.
>>152241486X-men TAS had a lot of heavy discussions. They ultimately still cleaned up a lot for the kiddies but discussions were still big and grand and filled with pathos. Characters told jokes but Beast would recite Shakespeare, characters with worry about their place in the world, whether or not it was right to bring children into the world. It very much talked up to its audience. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZU-5-jwIQPU
>>152240319Just got done spending an hour mourning this guy in another thread. Basically everything with him in it from the 60s til the mid-80s was solid gold. This is him using the power of God Himself to smite Dracula from Master of the Mystic Arts #14.
Never read a single marvel comic, what do I read? Pretty much only read Batman related comics
>>152240331Shadow face Nightcrawler is his best look
>>152242609A lot of the Silver Age stuff is really good. Spider-man, Avengers and Fantastic Four. X-men I'd suggest going from Giant Size.
>>152242698Original She-Hulk run any good?
>>152242992The original Savage She Hulk's pretty alright. Not a very long run but it's worth a read
>>152242609Be patient anon, good things will come to ASM again.
characters are just cool as fuck
>>152240319I remember.
>>152244374
>>152244474
maybe spidey wasn’t all that good
>>152243703Comparing these two images really highlights how lackluster modern comic art can be. It's like the first was drawn by someone who hated what they were doing.
>>152242698>A lot of the Silver Age stuff is really good.Unfortunately not.
>>152240319That's easy, my favorite character was Gambit, pic related: my first comic was #2 of his 97 run because I thought he was beating the shit out of gold robots with a crucifix on the cover. I found out I misunderstood the image but was ok with what I got, and my favorite story with him was his 99 run with New Sun, it was cool the whole last arc was just an allegory for nature vs nurture and how Gambit was a good man not because of the powers, but because he grew up around good men that taught him to be who he was, and who left him at the orphanage or where his powers came from didn't matter. We're not talking complicated crime and punishment stuff, but it was still a pretty cool message to spell out for kids back in the day and I love writers that can make Remy as fleshed out as he was there and use his powers in unique and fun ways. He's the whole reason I've not given up on X-Men as a franchise honestly, I'm a mark for him
>>152247407Forgot pic because I'm retarded
>>152245819I think it probably doesn't help that time crunch and deadlines just gets worse and worse nowadays
>>152240319I posted in another thread.These are the Marvel comics I've enjoyed so far. I've skipped around a bit.>Ditko Spider-Man>Fantastic Four #51>Steranko S.H.I.E.L.D. and Captain America>Neal Adams X-Men>Miller Daredevil and Elektra>Moore Captain Britain>Paul Smith UXM>Claremont/Miller Wolverine>Marshal Law (up to Kingdom of the Blind)>Triumph & Torment>Gerber Foolkiller>Thanos Quest>Dixon Punisher>Ennis Punisher MAX>Morrison Marvel Boy>Fantastic Four: Unstable Molecules>Fury MAX: My War Gone By
>>152247233Fortunately yes
>>152248418No. It's overhyped. Actually reading it, it's pretty bad.
>>152248439It's wonderful
What was the endpoint where you just said you were out? Civil War really turned me off and felt like where I wanted to be done with modern stuff.
There was stuff I liked post CW. I liked Avengers Academy, some of the X-men stuff was still solid. I don't think there was a single moment were I said I was done, just books I liked ended and fewer kept me interested
>>152248954>>152250732For me, it was AvX. I was a pretentious film nerd who bought into Bendis' desire to ape David Mamet and I really got liked Quasada's pushes across Marvel Knights and Ultimate Marvel and MAX. I wasn't as big a fan of Millar so Civil War left me feeling "whatever" and I could admit even at the time that "Avengers Disassembled" and "House of M" were dumb, poorly executed comics -- but I still liked New Avengers, Daredevil, JMS Spider-Man, everything Brubaker did across Cap, DD, Iron Fist. Plus there were always great under the radar books from guys like PAD, Jeff Parker, Fred Van Lente... and I liked shit like Exiles, Planet Hulk, all thatBut I hated "One More Day" and I hated what "Siege" did to JMS' run on Thor. The "Bendis Event Plague" was a thing I was noticing. The new New Avengers, X-Men in San Fran -- it all went over like a wet fart to me.This was around the time of "Before Watchmen" and Alan Moore did his usual round of valid criticisms and Jason Aaron took it weirdly personal and got butthurt and was all defensive of modern cape comics... and then he spearheaded AvX, and it was the dumbest dogshit.That + the overhype of the MCU (I just never thought those movies were that amazing) + "Avengers Arena" which was so cynically antagonistic really made me say "FUCK MARVEL" and never look back Once you read about the history of the company -- all the way back to the days of Goodman and Timely, you realize... they were always like this
>>152242609Amazing and Spectacular Spider-Man are consistently good reads until you get to the 90s where your mileage may vary.Silver Age Fantastic Four is also still quite good.Generally speaking though most of Marvel's stuff was at their peak in the 80s
>>152251095Millar actually did a really good Spider-man. But yeah for ever shit event marvel was pushing there was some stuff to the side that was very entertaining. The Herc book was fun.
>>152251109I miss the shooter era
Danny Ketch Ghost Rider. Now there's some metal shit. Vengeance...The crossover between Wolvie and Punisher. That's some shallow stuff but it is just too cool when drawn by classic JRJR. And Texeira artwork? Oh man...I need that kinda GR in MvC...
>>152252343don’t we all
>>152252391I had a bunch of the action figures they made. Seems like they wanted to do a show but just didn't.
I'm generally liking this, but Alkhema-2 losing her possibly literal torpedo tits is funny.
>>152253731I wonder if it would've been good...Anymore details?
>>152254318I'm just speculating from a toy line and a few guest appearances in other cartoons
>>152254690Oh ok. Now I get what you are talking about. Like when he appeared in the FF cartoon? Yeah that would have been tight but I fear censors were very finnicky with religious stuff and certain imagery.
>>152254902Yeah there was a whole episode from the Hulk show at the time too.
>>152244496Kino
>>152251124KURT NOOOOO
>>152256099That is just some rando other elf
>>152248954>What was the endpoint where you just said you were out?civil war 2 in 2016, I stopped reading current marvel there. From that point I only read conan, star wars ( I dropped that one too), a few DC comics and ahoy comicsbooks, and mainly old Marvel and DC comicbooks.
>>152247580>Dixon Punishergood stuff, relaly underrated.
>>152258361
>>152258370
>>152258382
>>152258382logan is straight jorkin it
:(
>>152251095Further proof Marvel fatigue is Bendis fatigue.
>>152240319I do not.
>>152259979sure you do. deep down down. In your heart.
>>152259158Makes sense.
>>152259158>>152261595I absolutely made this thread in response to that other one. I won't defend the new stuff but I don't want it to blind us to what we used to be.
So Marvel used to be better. And water is wet. It is snowing on Mount Fuji.
speaking of snow, there's 2ft of it outside my apt complex right fucking now. shit is insane.
>>152262504hoping the aftermath looks as cozy as this, anon>>152261731Very based, and agreed. Wish there was somewhere more permanent to discuss this stuff that wasn’t crazy.
Conan was good. You should all read Conan
>>152262504I don't think it's snowed like this since I was a kid.
>Get an email work is cancelled tomorrow due to weather Fuck yeah. Good day to read comics.
>>152262997I don't like the comics.
>>152264496Try the original short stories. They're wonderful.
This game is still wonderful
>>152264902The short stories are cool. I just don't like the comics.
>>152240319saving ASM is fairly easy tbqh
>>152240319>You remember them don't youNo. I don't. I don't even remember ever remembering them.
>>152242439Man, what the FUCK happened to Strange? Every time he appears, it's like a Family Guy parody bit. And even when he's not in the story, someone is usually dissing him like a motherfucker
>>152267245I'm… naked in the dark, with nothing, no veil… between me… and the wheel of fire! I can see it with my waking eyes..
>>152267309Kek Who knew that Frodo was an allegory for Spider-Man fans?
>>152267334There's more overlap than you might think if you ponder it
>>152267916
>>152267916For a second I thought it was Starfire with how orange she is
>>152246213Comfy
>>152267925Might as well post the following pages since they're great moments too.
>>152269244
>>152269262
>>152269280
>>152269290
>>152269309End.
>>152269316Meh.
>>15226730430+ years of torment, multiple personality rewrites, then an unfortunate chain of Bendis -> Aaron -> Cates for writersand the MCU cucking him even further after thatThere was an entire diatribe on it in this thread’s more pessimistic twin. >>152241366
>>152259158this thread outlasted the shit on marvel thread :)
>>152267304The same thing that happened to alcoholic Iron Man
>>152270278Its days are numbered.
>>152271583at least the MCU agave Iron Man a different story for a while there
Born Again is one of the best Daredevil stories, but then 3 quarters in it also becomes one of the best Cap stories.
>>152273784First of all get rid of Sandman. Let She-Hulk remain in the FF. And I really hope Beast isn't throwing stones in a glass house because he has a team.
>>152272939So good.
Ah, Sal.
>>152275789Damn. Didn't need to find out this way...
>>152276465Yeah. Dude was almost 90, so not a bad run but it really wakes you up.
>>152275789I liked his art on Rom Spaceknight. I got to read a bunch of those as a kid. Sad now.
>>152244496>Maybe I could never penetrate your rock, but I got under your skin. Fucking brutal
>>152247580I remember reading Ditko spider-man and largely being disappointed. Like it was cool seeing how Spider-man got his start, but most of the plot lines and side characters were pretty boring and lame. amazing fantasy #15 is still a fantastic story on its own though
What do you guys think of the incredible hulk 2023? I think it's pretty cool
>>152277048
>>152277062
>>152277075
>>152277090
>>152243703Ignoring the obvious points,why is the speech bubble so big?
>>152277308To hazard a guess, a combination of poor lettering skills, over reliance on prebaked digital tools and possibly to make more visible to phone readers.
>>152240319Earth X and ROM for me
>>152278560lightning in a bottle
>>152240372>You're right, my nigga.>Come on, let's get out of here.
To me, this >>152278560>>152278618isn't as good as this>>152272939Not exactly the same, but similar.
>>152278915Huckster type language where you exaggerate the feeling by using "scale-words" (term I made up regarding terms like "greatest on earth", "greatest of all time", "never seen before", "never the same again", etc.) instead of "descriptive words" and the fact that Miller is obscuring them in shadow is what sells the impression and ignites the imagination. What is rain that falls so hard it hurts? How much pain is that? Does it sting? Or is softer but numerous in the amount of rain droplets and that's why it hurts or are they thick droplets that hit your face with a thud? Y'know shit like that is why prose is good or bad. Anyway, pic rel is one of my favorite comfort pages. MJ holding out so lovingly the classic costume is so cute... and MJ leaping into his arms is great.
Nova's finest hour
>>152244496Fantastic
>>152279039>What is rain that falls so hard it hurts? How much pain is that? Does it sting?I got rained on during hurricane season and the water SLAPS. I imagine the rain here is heavier and faster.
>>152279061I felt nothing when I got to this. When you have a lame villain and a boring hero, it's hard to care much.
>>152278915I like both. I like when people treat Superheroes like SUPERHEROES instead of...>Hey Spider-Man quit jumping on my car ya bum!>Hulk you need to check your privilage!>Prof. X you don't do enough in the field. We should call it X-WomenGive me awe. Make it feel like I'm in the presence of a diety.
>>152277022I haven't read much of it, but the art is so fucking good. I love the hard shading that really leans into Frankenstein, and Hulk's horrific elements.
>>152277022It doesn't seem interesting. I cannot get into the Hulk. If Mantlo, PAD, Pak, and Ewing couldn't do it, I doubt this will.I'm tempted to read it, because people seem to like it so much, so I might too, but it will most likely end up being one of those where I just shit on it relentlessly because I wasted time reading it and not enjoying it.
>>152246213Why would the Sandman drink liquids though?
Sorry for posting so many Hulk, Spider-Man and Wolverine pages, but much of my early years were spent reading their runs, so I've got plenty of fond memories related to those characters.>>152277022I kind of dropped off around issue #10, but it's decent enough in terms of action. Really felt like a new take on the Silver/Bronze age formula of the Hulk going cross country battling all kinds of monsters and teaming up with other heroes, with a touch of gritty horror ala Supernatural.That said, it feels way too much like a modern Marvel run, in that PKJ was so enamored with coming up with monster lore and new side character Charlie, that the Hulk/Banner relationship takes a backseat and doesn't really develop much beyond them being at odds again. Which isn't his fault, he's only handling the status quo he was left. It just gets old reading series where the title character takes a backseat to everything else and only really shows up for action sequences. Nic Klein's art was perfect for the gothic horror and gore though, at least when he actually showed up. Way too many fill-in issues with unfitting art within those first 10 issues.
>>152279456Hits like a truck, every time.>>152270096>AaronOfffffff fucking COURSE. Every time someone even considers asking what's so awful about him, I go through a checklist of comics he shat on. Did he do the usual gimmick of throwing in some retarded retcons and later replacing Strange with a woman?
>>152280022>Sorry for posting so many Hulk, Spider-Man and Wolverine pagesDon't be!
>>152280886>Retarded retconsYes, oh god yes>replacing Strange with a womanShockingly no, but he did replace Strange(‘s personality) with Tony Stark. Does that count(if it helps, I know of at least 3 separate alternate universe where Strange is replaced by a woman— 2099, at least one Exiles universe, and the new Ultimate universe. Dunno if any of those were Aaron’s fault specifically)Cates kind of just kept digging the hole Aaron started, now with bonus Scrappy Doo involvement, and given how badly Strange is currently getting overshadowed in his own solo (and how poorly that solo is selling) I’m pretty sure the character has yet to recover
>>152280022>apologizing for posting good pagesNo, bad anon! Here, have one of my own as compensation.
>>152277022art looks good, for sure.
>>152280022It's fine. That's what this thread is about.
>>152248954>What was the endpoint where you just said you were out?I'm old, and mostly only read X-Men stuff. I stopped reading some time in the early or mid nineties. I think the one that made me decide to quit was the issue where they killed off all the Hellions. There'd been a bunch of foreshadowing and building up to stuff but then a new creative team comes on and decides to clean house so they can shift to their new villain. Felt like a big rug pull and put me off the whole idea of long-running, corporate franchises.
>>152282355 (me)Plus, if I remember right, at about the same time they decided to delete Capt Britain's whole personality and called him Britanix. Again a new writer who had no interest in continuing the old story so he just suddenly transforms the characters into something else; in a particularly retarded way in Capt Britain's case.
>>152282355Well they were pretty lame looking & the New Mutants team had more appeal.
>>152279456>it doesn't shoot very well>it fired 50 well placed rounds squarely into the bad guysThis thread is for GOOD panels.
>>152240372You know I never realised Cal had a star on his back too.
>>152283205How else is everyone supposed to know that he’s Captain America, not Captain France?
>>152283205That's because Cap doesn't turn and run
>>152283732Is there a Captain France?
This was somehow less overt than just showing some under the covers consensual cuddling
>>152284426Well, no, but Cap’s colored waistband could certainly have him mistaken for one from the back (without the star).Alternatively, are we counting Batroc the Leaper? If so, there’s no problem.
>>152283732What if he's captain Australia?
>>152283205He should be embarassed. His star is missing a point.
>>152285735
>>152286193I thought his name was literally Union Jack?
>>152247407Have they ever released that Nicieza run?I swear there's a huge blind spot in the 90's for really good and thoughtful comics, hidden behind the reputation of Edgy Extreme.
>>152244374based Michelob-bro
Anons, post YOUR VILLAINS.Those delightfully devilish, diabolically dastardly, despicably depraved, dishonorable and disastrous deviants.Beware cretins, for one villain smiles in the face of armageddon.
>>152287718
>>152240319Aside from OP's image, the introduction of Exitar the Exterminator has always been one of my favorite moments in comics.
>>152287718Them evil eyes.
>>152288244
I'll share a few I like from the Ditko Spidey run. This is one moment that really stood out to me. Pete is still in high school in this one and hasn't had much personal growth as of yet, but despite his sarcasm and penchant for childishness or self-centeredness he still knows when to man up and act like an adult such as in this scenario when he meets Dr. Connors grieving wife and son. It was very wholesome.
>>152240319hopefully #1000 fixes spider-man for the long term.
>>152290290Next is an issue I've always really liked. After 5-7 issues of teasing Pete and Flash's friendly rivalry they finally have a teacher tell them to just put on some gloves and duke it out so they can stop being catty with each other. Even though Flash was never quite a bully, it was still funny seeing Pete get one over on him, even if unintentionally. Also refreshing to see a superhero (a d especially Spidey) acting more like a real person instead of what we get nowadays.
>>152290315This is just one of the best comic book issues of all time.
>>152290325And finally this little moment. We don't really get domestic scenes like this anymore, especially ones so funny and cozy. People nowadays don't really have a handle on Pete's wit.
>>152290315I wonder how the rest of them reacted when Peter took his shirt off. Dude went from puny to an olympian athlete. I'd be shaken if I was Eugene
Flash ended up being a pretty interesting character through it all. Also goddamn 1963 bullies, 1980s bullies would have had a field day with you.
>>152291161>stretching to my absolute limitFUCK HE'S SO LAME. I HATE HIM
>>152291189T. Doom
>>152291230Reed fucking sucks and the fact that the most interesting thing they've done with him is make him evil (and its not even that interesting) it shows what a shit character he is. In a better world Reed would be what JARVIS is and it would be the Fantastic 3.
>>152291469Ban Latveria
>>152290424Lol that would have been a nice moment but it looks like they were still calling him stringbean and certain Flash was going to win. I guess teenagers were more athletic in the 60's.
rather prophetic wasn't it
>>152290302I'm not holding out hope, but it might. What a sad state for Marvel if the only thing they could think to do to make 1,000 good was just to reset to the status quo? SmhI'm still trying to remain vigilant for that leak from some years ago saying they were going to make Spider-Man as terrible as possible on purpose so people would want them to mercy kill Pete and let them replace him with Miles in ASM # 1000. They already fulfilled all the other parts of the leak (trashing Pete, ruining the book, bringing Miles and Gwen into mainline continuity.) I wouldn't put it passed them. Would be quite cathartic to see Disney come in and clean house due to the declining sales right before they get a chance to and undoing all their work, though by hiring new writers and telling them to get it back on track. I could see them just looking at the all time highest record sales and telling them: "just do that!" which would be amazing because it looks like the three most popular issues of ASM are #75 (in which Pete is in college living with Harry and Flash and juggling Gwen and MJ while fighting Silvermane & Hammerhead are forcibly turning Dr. Connors back into the Lizard) #375 (in which me has his first "final battle" with the newly debuted Venom guest starring Silver Sable) and #386 in which the Vulture learns how to drain life force, Aunt May him his parents who are back from the dead might be imposters, and he's married to and living with Mary Jane.Literally all of those things are the best parts of Spider-Man and what everyone wants to see. If they could get back to that they'd be doing gangbusters again and Spidey would be the #1 comic book like he used to be.
>>152275789The coloring is amazing which issue is this?
>>152276988Can't relate, Anon. In my honest opinion it very well may be the single greatest run in comic book history.
>>152257267That character was Dixon's best work.>>152276988>>152291697I mostly like it for the art and characters. It's really for Ditko that I like it. I don't really care about Spider-Man as a whole. I'm working through Doctor Strange, but the early parts are an incredible slog.
>>152244496Non-savage Hulk is kino.
>>152290302>#1000 fixes spider-manIts written by Kelly. There is no fixing it. And the only good writers at marvel? They won't touch ASM no more.
>>152287718Thanos got done SO dirty in the movies. His biggest power left out was his shit-talking skills.>>152282355>Trevor Fitzroy of the UpstartsEvery time they try to replace the Hellfire Club, it gets progressively worse. Last time I read they had introduced a bunch of shitkids.>>152281017>with bonus Scrappy Doo involvementAt this point they just look for new ways to make things worse
>>152287718I liked Devil Hulk more when he was a serpentine tempter and not the current incarnation as a gruff overprotective dad, they could've made that a new Hulk
>>152240319Maybe, just maybe, having never ending stories without any clear goal in sight for where it should go, with multiple writers who all have their own ideas, and no clear cut canon, isn't actually a good thing...
>>152283188try to develop some reading comprehension, anon-kun
>>152276988I wasn't disappointed by Ditko Spider-Man, but I wasn't blown away like I had heard it built up to beI think my major problems are the somewhat strict 3x3 panel layout and Stan being a bit too talkative Still, it's worth a read as both a time capsule and to see the foundations of Peter and his world>>152291745I've only read the first couple issues of Dr. Strange but I was instantly captivated. The first story is only 5 pages long but it has so much packed in
>>152291531Oh, Frank...
I am once again posting this because it really seems like this guy was onto something, maybe not in every case but certainly a few compelling arguments https://originalmarveluniverse.blogspot.com/2009/06/omu-end.html
>>152293767Interesting blog. I certainly do feel like there has been some major split between the marvel universes though he definitely pulls the hammer a lot sooner than I would. That said I'm not sure where I'd place my exact divide. It's certainly something to think about. For me Marvel is, in a way, kind of like the Simpsons. There was a lot of bullshit people point to as the fall but I can't rightly think of a single moment that made me go "I'm not watching this anymore." It just sort of generally fell off. That said I do feel like there's not really a clean line to show how we got to where we are. Like even the bullshit through the mid 90s you can see the through line. Post 2000s, especially post House of M just feel like a brick wall between the classic and old. I'll have to read more of this.
>>152240319
>>152292524>At this point they just look for new ways to make things worseThe worst part is that he keeps making it into all the spin-off games, Marvel Rivals included, and I seem to be in the minority for disliking him. If Bats ever goes away, it’ll be in some unpopular and disliked way (like most of Strange’s old supporting cast, come to think of it). >>152292383What good writers? I’m half-serious. I haven’t read anything good out of them in years. I’m pretty sure even their highest peaks are just “readable” at this point.
>>152290315Good thing concussions don't exist in superhero worlds
>>152292957Strange goes back and forth between cool and boring at the beginning.
>>152286908great panels, the thing is superb.
>>152295375Our precious boys
I miss liking comics.
>>152293767>>152293857I have an addition that I think may be relevant here: Starting in 1990, Marvel changed their timescale. While it’s never been absolute as far as I’m aware, by my best calculations (I’m not that good at math) it was previously (in the 80s anyways) something like ~2.5 to 1 and was pushed up to somewhere around ~4.5 to 1.
>>152297031It is weird to see where the sliding time scale picked up. Used to be there was some semblance of aging in real time, you watched Franklin's birth and grow up. I suppose it got harder to justify when certain events in history became too distant from the current yarn. WW2 was always an easy fix because you can bs Cap being frozen for however long you want though it was interesting to remember a time when WW2 wasn't that far off. Characters went from being little kids during it to never being born at all. Vietnam was a trickier one. Even when it was more recent a decade later is still a long time. I suppose I don't mind marvel having their fancy new made up South East Asian conflict in theory but it does feel a lot faker than it being actual Vietnam.
This entire fucking issue.
>>152297124Wasn't Reed & Ben, WW2 vets?
>>152297187They were. Reed and Ben were generally older than a lot of characters for heroes even back then
>>152297319forgot image
>>152297031I think for the first three or so years the time scale was 1:1I couldn't point to exactly when it slips out of sync
>>152297031I think it was around 4 or so by the time the Clone Saga had a recap of Spidey's history.>>152297319That would place them around 40 or so? I got the impression that was kinda standard for the scientist types until then.
>>152298072Reed was graduated and well respected in his field to start so yeah they would high 30s at the absolute lowest.
>>152291697I agree, it was very different back then, even when compared to other Marvel comics. It's incredible how they got so many things right, sometimes I wonder if it was pure luck. Some people prefer Romita's run. And I understand why, it's also very good but I don't feel like it's as complex as Ditko's run>>152290290I also think that picrel is one of the run's highlights
>>152298642A lot of older marvel is very interesting when you put yourself in the eyes of the era even compared to stuff that was still good or better latter on its fun watching how things we took for granted actually developed.
>>152299436Reservoir Dogs?
>>152300150With the Annihilators, yes
>>152291484He can't even turn into a bicycle.
>>152300933Victor I have no desire to become your mother.
>>152297187They were, and the last time that was referenced in the main book was around 1989, IIRC
>>152300942RIIIIICHHHAAAAAAARRRRRRRRDDDSSSSSS!!!!
>>152300942Kek
>>152301115>sitcom theme song plays as the scene transitions
>MaryWhoreFag opcringe, not even once.
>>152301675Man those Thing & Johnny subplots really jump the shark sometimes but they're also the best part every episode. Johnny may have gone too far on that Hanukkah episode though.
>>152301956You never once cringed? Whoa...I didn't know you liked MJ like that. Kinda weird way you refer to her but I guess you're one of those denigrating types, huh? Not sure if she'd like that.
>>152293767Some of these are so elaborate, but then>PUNISHER #41 (OCT 1990)>The Punisher transitions into the Second Marvel Universe following Nick Fury’s guest appearance in this issue.>PUNISHER WAR JOURNAL #24 (NOV 1990)>There’s a convenient continuity break when Carl Potts leaves this series. The Punisher makes a few more guest-appearances until his final cameo in Namor #20.These two are so vague to me as a big friend of Frank. I think all of the 3 original ongoings for Punisher are pretty consistently great, and normally self-contained enough that their place in the Marvel Universe really doesn't matter, so you could say Punisher keeps going in the "old" universe well after his arbitrary cutoffs.
>>152302007I married a Skrull
>>152302319Fellas is it gay if your alien wife by default was a man?
>>152302349Did balls touch?
>>152302349Maybe?
>>152302373Technically no.
>>152302381Then it's not gay.
>>152302373>TFW you'll never fuck your Skrull GF while she fucks your ass with her tail-cock she shaped shifted for you
>>152240319>Marywhore touches Peter's mask>Peter takes off her Paul ridden hand off his face>wipes off a bugger with it>leaves her alone in the rain on top of a building to go bang Black Cat insteadDare I say based?
>>152300942Thats a sick fucking statement considering Doom's mother. I thought Johnny was the only one who could burn a motherfucker
>>152298642What the hell were the MMMS?
>>152303465Merry Marvel Marching Society
>>152303465https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB_v5w9NwUU
This whole interview is pretty worth watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_d7O7zUeSA
>>152290445I concur, and honestly find it a bit more wholesome. Though, honestly, Flash isn't quite a bully. He invites Pete to hangout now and again and has looked out for him once or twice and even visited Aunt May in the hospital when she was sick. He's just kind of a butt head and they're personalities clash quite often.
>>152303906Flash is literally my favourite character in Marvel. Bar none. The fact that he got to do a stint as a superhero just like the one he looked up to means more to me than someone like Miles taking over. We had Flash. They should've used him instead of a literally who
>>152298642>sometimes I wonder if it was pure luckI'd have to read some more of Ditko to really say for sure but I find his run on Spider-Man is just masterfully sculpted. First you have this wonderful balance of costumed crime fighting superhero and domestic drama. There are few foes that heroes such as Batman, Superman, Captain America, Wolverine, and etc could face that you couldn't imagine Spidey himself going toe to toe with but none of those characters could wind up in some of the situations Peter does. For example in ASM # 25 Aunt May finds his Spider-Man costume and in a panic he has to play it off as a prank he and some guys at school were going to do. This upsets May and she confiscates it saying he's going to get himself hurt and hides it in her room. This leads to an almost two issue problem where Peter doesn't have his suit and the only thing that's stopping him from getting it is May is retired so she never leaves the house and he can't just barge into her room and take it back. He gets so desperate that he goes to a novelty shop and buys a Spider-Man Halloween costume (made out of "that snazzy new stretch fabric!") and tries to fight crime in that but it keeps riding up on him and making him look goofy. What other comic character could realistically find himself in such a scenario, let alone have it be fun and entertaining rather than ridiculous? Pete has a way of drawing you in and making you feel at home. Like you live there or he has a family just like yours.
>>152304004Another thing I have tried to study is the way his supporting cast is set up. We've got:Home:Aunt May (and sometimes Anna Watson)School:Flash ThompsonLiz AllenMisc friends of theirsWork:J. Jonah JamesonBetty GrantMisc reportersHis entire cast of characters is designed perfectly so that it's always entertaining and always moves the plot forward. What does a person do besides Go to school, go to work, go home, and maybe have some leisure time in-between? Pete's school often provides plot points (either with someone invading the school, a teacher volunteering him for a project, Flash being a jerk or getting into trouble, or Liz Allen teasing a romance but it not working out) Likewise at work his boss often pushes him into a plot due to needing a new headline or hearing an inside scoop about something he can blame on Spider-Man (the fact that J.J. hates Spidey is a stroke of genius. It keeps him balanced between friend and enemy and always keeps things lively) and once again Betty provides a possible love interest that always leads to drama. Then at home there's Aunt May who he's got to help with bills, worry about her health, dodge from discovering his secret, or just generally boost his spirits when the world is beating him up. Lastly, his recreational activities are usually science experiments that often lead to new Spidey gear and tools or just swinging around NYC as Spidey which often leads to encounters with villains or guest stars.
>>152304008It's designed perfectly for him to pinball back around the board between all of those things, making sure you never get too much of one thing so it always stays fresh and new and always has an excuse to charge the plot forward. If things are going well at work and home, then things are going bad at school, if good at work and school then something's wrong at home, if home and school are good then there's a problem at work, the rare time he's tossed a bone and everything's good he runs into trouble just swinging around. They've got 3-6 different tricks to pull to bring the plot into action, and considering they were monthly titles that's enough that you'd rarely see the same premise twice in a year and due to the nature of the cast you had plenty of opportunity to balance costumed villains with domestic drama. If his villains a run of the mill costumed bad guy then he's got some kind of issue with Flash hassling him, one of the girls, or Aunt May being on a fixed income or sick, if everything's going good in his personal life then he's got a particularly bad villain that's really taking his time and attention which ends up messing up the good flow he had in his personal life. Occasionally they'll go for both and it will be an issue that really tries his heart and almost makes him give up but is all the more satisfying when he finally succeeds, and then even more rarely he'll finally get all of his plates spinning and be on top of his game as both Spidey and Peter and get to take a victory lap issue which come so few and far between they always feel like a breath of fresh air and keep things from feeling too routine or too pessimistic because ultimately, it's a cozy and optimistic series.I really do think within the 35-some odd issues of Ditko's run on Amazing Spider-Man you have the ultimate formula for comic book success. Perhaps even for other forms of media, as well.
>>152303948Honestly that would have been a good idea and I would've at least been a bit on board with it. I could get behind that. Sort of makes me think they should've just done a fakeout with Peter dying and had Flash takeover as Scarlet Spider instead of doing the whole Clone Saga, though.
>>152292344It's funny, when I was growing up, I preferred the Savage Hulk. Mostly because reruns of the 70s show with Lou Ferrigno used to scare me, but once I got over that fear and started reading back issues from the same time period, I found I really liked the character. To me, he was as much the epitome of the "Marvel Manner Hero" as much as Spider-Man: Brash, sometimes selfish, prone to misunderstandings and lashing out at friend and foe alike, but ultimately wanting to live in peace and be heroic when given the opportunity. The caveman behavior was extra flavoring, and an extra barrier to his relations with the world at large.Imagine my surprise once I started reading the then-current comics to find him in his Professor persona. Square-jawed as Superman, fashionable, witty. Even leading his own super team. The exact opposite of the brutish, misunderstood but somehow heroic Hulk I grew to appreciate.It wasn't until I picked up a collection of assorted stories, the latter half delving into PAD's run featuring the Gray Hulk, working back up to the Professor years that I began to appreciate what he was trying to do with that approach. Everything I liked about the Savage Hulk was still there underneath the surface, just hidden under layers of snark and sleaziness. Deep down still just wanting to live and be himself, even help others (in his own way) when the opportunity arises.(From Incredible Hulk vol. 1 #375, btw).
I like the Hulk. Probably my favorite Marvel character. He has so many good comics to read. Even the current run by PKJ and Klein is solid. It helps that he avoided the MCU synergy. Still, is it just me or has the amount of shit comics decreased compared to 2010-2020?
>>152304355As an aside, what I appreciate the most is that no matter the personality, they all still have a root in Banner's core values. Like the character's inspiration in Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, the Hulks are just extensions of Banner's true self. But unlike Jekyll and Hyde, it's not all just anger and debauchery. There's some good there too. He may be prone to destructive, vindictive behavior, but there's still some compassion in there somewhere, even if it's often skewed.
>>152304371>It helps that he avoided the MCU synergy.It really helps that the MCU isn't really using him, so there's little incentive to force synergy.But largely, yeah. Despite some hiccups along the way, there's nothing really appallingly bad and at odds with decades of characterization. Which is definitely a plus considering how recent Cates' run was.I think overall Marvel, and by larger industry, is moving away from the outright bafflingly tone deaf decisions from the '10s and '20s and more towards informed decisions that have some basis in reason. Not to say there aren't still patches of poor writing and outright stupidity around, but there has been a shift. It's similar to that post-Heroes Reborn atmosphere where you can tell they've exhausted chasing trends and are trying to refocus towards actual storytelling. Take that as you will.
>>152304008Of the silver age Marvel I've read, this really draws the cleanest picture of why Spider-Man got as big as he did; the supporting cast.The only other characters with their own books were the Fantastic Four and the X-men, everyone else was still in anthology magazines, and their ticketed characters competing with each other for panel time.For a long time the FF's only supporting character was Alicia.So yeah, Peter having three different locales populated by named characters gave him a much stronger drama-led story and most other heroes' sci-fi pulp
>>152304008That's one of the reasons I always cringe when people try to push that "secret identities don't work anymore", or when they want Aunt May killed off or get rid of the Bugle to "progress the character". There's too much fun to be had.Dunno who the current runs use, but goddamn Robbie Robertson has to be around in any good run. Love that guy.And for all the shit it gets, Brand New Day made a perfect move bringing back Harry. The parts where they had him hanging out with Pete made it worth it.
Pre 2000 Marvel was something special.
>>152303906Yeah, I like that Pete was just as much of a asshat. It felt realer.
>>152304747Silver Age Spidey felt very, for want of a better term, UN Silver Age. Like there's a degree of modernity to Avengers and the other books but a lot of still feels very HOLLY HANNAH WE NEED TO STOP THE EVIL BAD GUYS LIKE PHANTOM SPACEMAN!
>>152306519This. It's very clear that a lot of books were still in the awkward Lee/Ditko purple prose era while Daredevil and at times Spider-Man were just far and away better written. Not to mention the subject matter being talked about in Spidey at the time.Imagine bringing up Peter fighting cops and talking about police brutality now. You can't because he's not that kind of character anymore. And if he did, people would complain that it's not him or he'd never do that. And in a way, they're right.There used to be subplots about politics and rights groups as well.
>>152306519DD was like this also in the early days, but it felt more derivative of Spidey, he really did start as redder Spider-Man.
>>152306570At what point in the 21st century did the police and public start being cool with Spider-Man?In-universe kids and teenagers always liked him for the most part, but even up to '98 there's still a lot of contention over him being a public menace
>>152306660I don't think there was any ONE moment that did it. It mostly just seems to be a real case by case basis with a bigger percentage of PRO as time went on
>>152306678I'm going to blame.... movie synergy.
>>152304371Fuck off, spammer.
>>152306784He had plenty of cop buddies since PAD
>>152304371>>152304446I dunno man. Politics still seeps its way into everything and the continuity doesn't matter. Characters get regularly mischaracterized. I would say the number of shit comics has stayed the same except there are less infamous pages where it's patently absurd how delusional or dumb the writer is.Events still get rammed down all the time. Editors still are stubborn in being radio-silent or unwilling to take any feedback and act upon it. Not that there is a lot of feedback to act upon but then again it's not like when there was, they did anything about it.
>>152307827this is the razor's edge about comics however, what does mischaracterized mean? Use time travel and go back to the 1940's and show a Batman reader Post-Crisis or modern Batman and they will say he's terribly out of character. Show a 60's or 70's reader of Spider-Man any Spidey comic from the past 20 years or so and they'll throw it in the trash in disgust. What even are these characters in their truest and most pure form?
>>152307940I feel like there's at the very least some kind of CORE to them that needs to be required and held up. The major difference between eras was typically one of tone not character.
>>152292554Peter david and greg pak did that YEARS before that infamous hulk run from 2019-2022
>>152308351That's the period I was referring to
Inside you there are two Hulks. To be blunt they're both kind of assholes.
>>152307241Im surprised that he's giving a genuine opinion, instead of talking like a Death Battle fag. Specially considering his question. Unless he's impersonating the real Hulkposter
>>152309374Likely impersonating because that's the first time I've seen him not be retarded.
>>152306660Probably around the time he became a headlining Avenger rather than a reservist
>>152305202It's was alright. During the 00s, everything got so ugly and drab and never recovered.
>>152309933>he will never know how much of a burn that was>>152307940>Show a 60's or 70's reader of Spider-Man any Spidey comic from the past 20 years or so and they'll throw it in the trash in disgust.That is largely true for any Spider-Man fan
>>152310501>That is largely true for any Spider-Man fanYeah, Spidey and X-men aren't stellar examples. Though old Avengers fans probably aren't gonna be doing cartwheels.
>>152310920Damn it to hell, I think the only ones who might have a bit to enjoy in that timeframe is cosmic fans. Though I personally enjoyed a bit of stuff here and there, like Kyle & Yost X-Men.
>>152311434Cosmic bros got the good stuff but I also liked stuff. X-men in general could go either way but they had good books. Uncanny X-force was a banger, you had mutants vs vampires. I don't think Utopia era x-men was bad really. They at least remembered to be super heroes a lot of the time.
>>152311758This arc was great, despite all the stuff they got wrong with vampires - again, I'd thank mostly Kyle & Yost there, we got that story where they bring back both Storm's connection with Dracula and have her being thief bros with Gambit. People bash all the Rightclops stuff like this scene, which I understand, but it's pretty cool. It helps that he had a huge 3d-chess plan going AND the most important... he remembered to call Blade.Utopia had some stuff that didn't click with me, but overall it was decent. Liked Age of X, absolutely love Necrosha. FUCK aaron once again for ending it with Schism, of all shit.
>>152269309>Got his ass beat by MJ AND Aunt MayJust call it quits dude
>>152277022Love/Hate relationship, because it's one of those books that gives me a little bit of hope
>>152312086I'd argue this was a bit before Rightclops. He was becoming more of a hardass but the memes weren't there yet. And yeah this was fun. You just have a whole defense line of x-men like Colossus, Armor, Iceman and generally people who can't get bit. Bobby getting blessed so he could be Holy Water Iceman was something.
>>152290102Swear to Christ the last fifteen to twenty years, have been utter dogshit to Rhody. I blame Bendis and whoever shackled him to that harpy Carol Danvers
>>152292383I can't even blame the writers anymore, this shit is purely editorial driven
>>152312249Yeah, Spencer sure as fuck tried, god help him. I really don't get why Editorial is like this.
>>152298990I remember reading some of Kirby's Captain America back in the mid 2010's and just being amazed at how clean the fights were compared to a lot of modern stuff despite how "crude" it looks at first glance. Dude was a fucking GOD, a lot of the artists they get now a days could never hold a candle to King Kirby despite having technically prettier art
>>152303270>Gachimuchi plays on an eternal loop in Thanos's brainExplains everything
>>152312282Spite, nostalgia, & projection of their own issues.
>>152308615>There are two Hulks inside you>One is a dick>The other is a dick>You are a dick
>>152311758I can't really forgive Utopia since that was when they started turning into Nazis
>>152312282>I really don't get why Editorial is like thisCombination of fuckass fanboy nerds gaining power over cannon and a complete lack of accountability from the Mother company. Throw in the fact that motherfuckers STILL won't quit this shit and you have a recipe for the last twenty plus years of Spiderman
>>152312420>>152312282>>152312249Remember for as much as you might hate certain writers the buck always stops at editorial. They are the ones supposed to steer the ship and set the red line about what a character can do or be depicted as. Going into how Shooter ran things is old hat but it's a testament to how it should be. Weak editorial is weak leadership.
>>152307940Why do people recoil when they have to read golden age comics? Simple, times have changed so drastically that there are core truths to these characters that are appealing and unique across time but some aspects get left in the dust. I agree with you on that. But Spider-Man doing actions that are popularly associated as irresponsible with no clear justification to these actions is out of character when the origin is what defines him. That is a case of another aspect of Spider-Man (him making mistakes and being kind of an awkward teen) becoming flanderized and made way more important than anything else. The book had a balance of focus across many different facets and that was a main source of appeal for a bulk of the book's eras. Nowadays nothing happens per Lowe and the actual storytelling has less depth and less going on. That is just a book-wide problem that is chiefly shown in a more clear example is that mischaracterization I just mentioned.
>>152312496>Weak editorial is weak leadershipExcept editorial isn't weak. In fact the issue is it's TOO strong. They have a vision, a really fucking shit vision and they're forcing it on everyone from the writers to the readers all the way since One More Day
>>152312496>>152307940This is still dumb whataboutism missing the point. The core of Batman's character didn't come in the 40s nor really get properly defined until at least the 70s. Spider-man started out with aspects of his character people still want to this day.
>>152312420>fanboy nerds gaining powerSee that's just it. I don't think they are fans. They certainly don't act like it. This wasn't them trying to recreate or rebuild an older status quo. This is them going out of the way to make things look as bad as possible.
>>152312743Yep. In the 60s they developed his most important aspects. The first two runs defined how he should be written, trying other stuff will feel out of character. But it should also be considered that Peter needs to grow as a character as well, that's what he was doing since his first comics. So his stories also need some changes that still feel natural
>>152312883
>>152312890Exactly. Growth & changed used to actually define Spider-man comics until the fanboys grew up, took over, & had to project their own misery onto him. Why should this character have a loving wife & get his life together if THEY'RE going through divorces & hardships?!
>>152312946MON EL
>>152305093>Dunno who the current runs useApparently:Norman OsbourneSome guy who' supposed to be Pete's childhood best friend who grew up to be a smarter super scientist than Reed Richards and he's just never thought to mention him before despite the fact that he lives in ManhattanA middle eastern woman who won't officially let him call her his girlfriend and cheats on himThat's about it
>>152306660Technically most people always liked him except for when JJJ smeared him or he was in too hairy a situation that the cops wanted to bring him in for questioning. I'm not sure when they decided to have him just generally thought of as a menace.
>>152312209Ha, I didn't remember this detail, pretty clever.I just always assumed Rightclops was more referring to the last panel of Second Coming, but either way the timeline of later Utopia gets a bit mixed in my head.
>>152313304>Some guy who' supposed to be Pete's childhood best friendOh yeah, I forgot about that. Man they just shuffled past that real quick. Really was expecting that to be a bigger deal.
>>152313304Geez...And hell, everyone is smarter than Richards these days. Dr. Doom would be grinning from ear to ear, except he's probably still below.(And still, none of these supra-geniuses fixed the world's problems like some people expect from Reed)
>>152313379>Dr Doom laughing when he realizes Reed isn't the smartest anymore.>Is midway through some other scheme or plot on his throne and just realizes that means he got bumped down too.... "GODDAMMIT!"
>>152313410
>>152313342It was only around MUH PHOENIX that things started to get way too out of hand. The whole X-force controversy was there I suppose but that wasn't so much in the grander scheme.
>>152288244It's ironic - as art got better and more 'realistic' over time, expressive coloring was lost.
>>152312380>There are two Hulks inside you>You're a fucking faggot for let two giant burly men double assfuck you
>>152312209my timeline (and knowledge) of Rightclops is a bit muddy too, but I always associate him with the X-shaped red visor on his head instead of the one here.
>>152313643Kek
>Cap was already struggling with perceived irrelevancy as far back as 1968
>>152314111Yeah, let that sink in a bit. I know Vietnam was a big eye opener but really telling how shit's gonna go from here.
>>152313410>...RIIIICHAAAAAARDS!!!>>152313643Really thinking too highly of yourself, Hank.>same run has that brutal Richards burn, whether it's true or not>>152314111>This is the age of the anti-hero... the age of the rebel... and the dissenter!If you hadn't pointed out the year, I could think this is from the 90s. Even the art I'd place in the 70s at least.
>>152309374>>152309514Nah, it's me. You can tell by the filenames.
Recently read the Avengers Defenders war. Possibly marvels oldest big dumb crossover event. It's interesting to look back on this one in a few ways. I can't hide my modern day cynicism for how exhausting crossovers and hero vs hero events have gotten especially for dubious reasons over a macguffin chase but I also try to look at it from the eyes as it was coming out and this kind of thing wasn't so overplayed and it's still an fun story. Plus spanning only two books over over three months at 20 cents a pop isn't gonna hurt as much as they get these days and the old style of writing certainly gave you your two dimes. Fun events. Crazy to think about in hindsight. Defenders were a weird team.
Hulk Thor fight was the highlight. RIP, Sal.
>>152314532When it wasn't already happening every other week, people genuinely wanted to see these characters slug it out just because it'd be cool.Hell, Iron Fist's first interaction with another hero was fighting Iron Man because fans saw this new character with Iron in his name and it activated their neurons to imagine the two Iron guys fighting.
>>152314586yes. when it's spaced out more and done well it's a lot of fun. Even before this event it wasn't so uncommon for heroes to get in a tussle. Hulk vs Thing is a legendary throw down. Daredevil fought Hawkeye not so long ago. Even the occasional mini series. It just reach a point when it felt like marvel's heroes were fighting each other more than their villains.
how about the fact that back in the 60's Tony was an actual hero who talked like a Super Sentai hero about protecting people's dreams, hope and shit. Couldn't you argue making him a pathetic alcohol was a character assassination?
>>152314640>Couldn't you argue making him a pathetic alcohol was a character assassination?There's a line in Othello about a drink. Now a sensible man, by and by a fool presently a beast. That about well covers it. But no I don't think so really. That he was able to bounce back and recover really only enhances that so it's less an major character flaw as it is a dark period he overcame and was better for it. Him even being able to reach out to Carol when she had the same problem is noble.
>>152314111They should really base Cap's personality on Jimmy Stewart in Mr. Smith Goes to Washington.
>>152292524>Every time they try to replace the Hellfire Club, it gets progressively worse.Even the original version isn't that great, and 'evil BDSM club villains' was Claremont and Byrne's fetishes combining into something it's hard to believe was even allowed into a comic kids were reading.The Hellfire Club was never really great, it's just a recurring thing in X-Men comics because it's part of the best-known X-Men story.
>>152315136You're right, 100%. It's "magical realm" getting pushed into comics, and far from the only case, New Mutants crosses the line ten times over.And still. Every time someone tried to push "the next thing" over them, it's been eyerolling material or cringier.I'll even argue that the fight in which they join the X-Men against Nimrod was one of the biggest hype moments in the Claremont run.
>>152313323>I'm not sure when they decided to have him just generally thought of as a menace.Since, like, issue 2 or 3It's funny reading through different back to back silver age stories and seeing cops go from>look out! It's that dangerous vigilante Spider-Man! POW POWto>Ant Man! Thank goodness you're here!
>>152314111
>>152313643good panel.
>>152313643As I’ve said in other threads Hank is my favourite character, I just wish he was still a relevant one.
>>152313916Expressive line art too.
>>152318064Oh Klaw, you jobbing clown.
>>152317535And expressive dialogue, in most cases. It’s probably the best-off of everything though.
>>152316741Hank is the best Avenger
>>152319319Wrong.
>>152320002Right
>>152320002Go ahead anon, who is the best Avenger?
>>152319319He was too good for them if anything.
Hawkeye is also a very good avenger
>>152315360>I'll even argue that the fight in which they join the X-Men against Nimrod was one of the biggest hype moments in the Claremont run.Imagine how much more hype it would've been with a better villain team like if that had been the first ever moment Magneto and the Brotherhood worked together with the X-Men. And went right back to "We still hate you" afterwards.
>>152318064Since Klaw is made of sound, wouldn't that completely screw up Daredevil's radar senses?
>>152322259he got him
>>152322259Klaw's powers are weird and he's kind of dumb
>>152315360>It's "magical realm" getting pushed into comicsQRD?
>>152323964/tg/ term for someone shoving their fetish into things
>>152323998oh like the comic, oh I thought you were referring to something else
Have Marvel ever revamped public domain superheroes before?
>>152325365Is Thor public domain? How do mythological figures count? I know the whole MIGHTY THOR is trademarked as hell but could I just make my own book called Thor
>>152325489He's a myth figure so not exactly ever copyrighted as a concept to begin with.
>>152320811He's the quintessential Avenger
>>152325638He's not my favorite but if given the chance, I don't think I could make a team without him. Remember when he was Goliath.
>>152325690>Remember when he was Goliath.I'd rather not. Outside of maybe Ronin, every time Clint gets a new look it's shit.
>>152325884Ronin looks cool but it came at the worst time with Bendis beginning the end of Marvel.
>>152325884It's a good thing his classic outfit slaps because boy does he have rotten luck with alts. Especially that more "modern" sunglasses look.
>>152325489yup. prototype mighty thor first appeared in a DC comic strangely enough.
>>152322102I think scenes like this are why Hank is such a good character, he knows that he fucked up and still tries to make things right as much as he can. I know I’ve been sperging about Hank for a few days now but he’s such a well-written character that’s gone through that much unjust hate by normies it bled into the comics and ruined any chances of anything on the level of him being Yellowjacket and the aftermath ever being written again.
>>152325638totally agree and with that costume.
Seeing as we all agree Hawkeye kicks ass, what's the /co/nsensus on Matt Fraction's run? When it came out I heard nothing but praise, but recently I've seen criticism.
>>152326955It's shit and is one of the biggest reasons Clint is a joke now
>>152327457That’s the run where they had him start training his quirk chungus replacement if I’m not mistaken, if so it’s no wonder it was praised by the people who love that archetype
>>152326955Fraction has never written anything good; that run is no exception
>>152320811>TFW you can tell the quality of some Avengers stories via how much Clint is seething
>>152328387The 90s costumes are really bad for how nothing they are. Like they try so hard to be different they come across as generic. And I'm the type who doesn't even like most Marvel designs.
>>152329203They come off as wannabe Image Comics looks. Clint isn't TOO bad but he looks like a 2nd rate Shaft from Youngblood.
>>152326422Yeah when you get down and actually read the whole issues and all the events surrounding it it reads way different then they its treated now
>>152329443Exactly the issue. They're Rob Liefeld inspired designs. There's a reason only Deadpool & maybe Cable really took off.
>>152326422I've probably already told you this (fucking hell this place is too small and the user base too autistic to where so many of you guys are recognizable because you seem to talk about one thing) but go read>Ant Man (2022)https://batcave.biz/319-ant-man.html#chapters>Avengers INChttps://batcave.biz/479-avengers-inc.html>Battleworldhttps://batcave.biz/33807-battleworld-2025.htmlsome recent issues of Moon Knight, and even the new Ultimate Universe, dude has been getting an INSANE amount of genuine love and care I haven't seen a character receive in a long time. They aren't treating him like some wife beating pariah anymore so you don't have to act like they are. Enjoy the Pymmisance
>>152331232The baggage is still & will always be there. Remember when they tried replacing him as Giant Man with a literal who?
>>152331279Christ stop self victimizing and just enjoy comics,. Your character is having a fucking renaissance and here you are wallowing due to some bullshit years ago. Pymfags are eating good, better than most of the fans of the other B-listers and even the A-Listers.
>>152331449No that's retarded. Movie synergy push because all their attempts to demonize & replace him don't work is not a renaissance. Stop eating slop like good little cattle & have some nuance thought for once.
>>152331565Not him, but sounds like one of the rare cases where movie synergy push Is A Good Thing. Last I heard he was stuck in comic book limbo fused with Ultron and probably a villain.
>>152331565Alright stay fucking mad then, you fucking deserve it you autistic freak
>>152331989Calm down Dan Slott.
>>152326955If your only knowledge of Hawkeye comes from Bendis-era Avengers and MCU then it's good.If you actually read Hawkeye comics made before Bendis then it really doesn't hold up that well
>>152325365Roy Thomas used a few public domain Golden Age superheroes (Strongman, Spider Queen, Dr Nemesis, Volton, and I forget who else) in his 90s Invaders miniseries as antagonists for the Invaders to fight. Of those, Fraction decided to use Dr Nemesis for X-Men. Spider Queen showed up again in Avengers 1959, I think that was Chaykin. Volton almost was in a Vision miniseries in the 2010s but that got shelved. I forgot who was supposed to write that, Chelsea Cain maybe?Brubaker and Fraction brought in the Golden Age Amazing-Man and revamped him as Prince of Orphans, in Immortal Iron fist
>>152327812The praise mainly comes from the art and the idea of "Hawkguy" because a guy who uses a bow has to be a shlubby loser
>>152332405No Alan Weiss? He subbed in some times and he drew Pete shredded as fuck
>>152322102I want to compare this Wonder Woman getting kicked out the JLA where she screeched and whined and flipped her shit
>>152267916Chameleon literally kissed Mary Jane is there no man in New York this chick wom't mack on?
>>152332405Fucking Ramos. Bruh was actually shitposting. Rather have Electric Co. artist
>>152332661This cover feels nostalgic on so many levels, but I still guessed the wrong timeframe.
>>152328325>Fraction has never written anything goodI like his Future Foundation, although it did get obnoxious in parts
>>152328325His Spider-Man Annual right before OMD was pretty good.
Onslaught was on the whole trash but it had some fine Big Damn Hero moments
>>152334854Has this ever been used anywhere else?
>>152335317The tom Holland spiderman had a one. I don't remember if the 90s cartoon had it.
>>152335886Both it and Spectacular have used it. I think it tends to show up in most animations.
Triumph and Torment is still probably my favorite Doom story, though lately I've been enjoying Lee's Fantastic Four run with his more fun escapades.
>>152336685See if Marvel was smart they could have had Dr Strange 2 be Triumph and Torment as their way to introduce Doom.
>>152336810Thank god they didn’t do that. Can you imagine how badly they’d have screwed it up?
>>152337051Oh it would have been awful. I'm just imagining Doom being nameless the entire film and just ending with a stinger where Strange asks his name and he says VICTOR. Victor Von DOOM!!
>>152290315>Pete and Flash's friendly rivalry>Even though Flash was never quite a bullyThat's how you read it? I'm going through the Lee/Ditko run for the first time now and Flash seems like an enormous asshole who is absolutely not friendly with Peter. I'm willing to concede that we don't see any real bullying but the impression I got reading through the first 10 or so issues is that Flash definitely bullied Peter before he became Spider-Man and probably afterward too, just inbetween what we see in the stories.
>>152337211That'll come later. Flash even tries to justify his targetted bullying at one point and Peter almost agrees.
>>152337276Gotcha. I'm working backward after getting 'into' AMS during BND era and then checking out the early JMS stuff (up to end of Ezekiel) and a handful of random issues.I really like Flash as a character and his character growth is probably one of the most earned and satisfying ones I can think of in cape comics, but he definitely starts out as a huge asshole. I think attempts to make him more sympathetic were definitely afterthoughts (much like making Peter more sympathetic compared to how angry he is in the early issues. AMS #8's story with the Torch paints him pretty negatively for example and that's not even the most egregious example given how often Pete comes off like he's about to beat the shit out of everyone in his school).
>>152332014A biological woman discussing Adam Warlock? Okay.
Jim certainly had a thing or two to say about a thing or two. He also did this kind of thing in Silver Surfer were people were profiting off his dreams. Some of my favorite comics.
Also I would very much like this to be a banner.
>>152338544Who was the penciller?
>>152338931Jim Starlin did both pencils and script
I miss Boyscout Cyclops so much it's unreal.
>>152338953I miss the dream. Heroes need dreams. Dreams lift us up and yadda yadda
>>152323145Klaw is a great 60s Lee/Kirby villain with powers that were pretty unique. He is strangely dumb sometimes for a mad scientist villain though.
>>152328387I actually like a lot of the 90s Avengers costumes, but be fair to Hawkeye, he was really going through a difficult phase in his life after Mockingbird died. Back before the retcon of it just being a Skrull.
>>152332103Roy Thomas originally planned to use some actual 1940s Marvel characters in that Invaders mini, but editorial told him there was no way they'd let any Marvel heroes, no matter how minor or obscure, side with the Axis Powers in a WWII story, so he used five public domain characters instead, the one you forgot was named Meteor Man. Despite that mini making Dr Nemesis the most villainous of the group, and Spider Queen having more sympathetic motivation, her later appearance treated her as a villain, while Fraction and later X-book writers turned Dr Nemesis into a Warren Ellis-style character and ignored him ever siding with the Nazis.It was Cain who was writing that aborted Vision mini, two issues had been solicited before it was cancelled because Marvel changed their plans for Vision. As his only notable appearance afterwards in several years was Avengers No Road Home, which resolved the plot where he appeared to be dying, there was speculation the mini was going to kill him and set up Viv Vision as his replacement.
>>152338953Same
>>152339116>the last time Cyclops was good>the last time X-Men was good>We're never getting this back everJust put them out of their misery, Marvel.
>>152339116There needed to be someone that wouldn't compromise on Xavier's dream. It should have been Scott, he should have looked at Krakoa and called it an abomination, the opposite of what the X-men have fought for all these years. Oh and also they should give one of the X-men a human kid, preferably give it to Scott.
>>152331232So, last I saw Hank, he was bonded with Ultron. Did he get aged up when they separated him? I've missed a few beats here and there, apparently.
>>152338544Sounds like a TADC plot point
>>152336810>>152337051The tournament would be fucked up to begin with because no Ancient One, or the tibetan temple. A proper adaptation would have been a spectacle.
>>152331232Oh. Here I thought it was somewhat good that the synergy brought him back, but he's really movie Pym turned on eleven, huh
>>152339116This is Ultimate right? Kind of funny since I remember people shitting on Ultimate X-Men being full of assholes back in the day.What is the best place to read X-Men? Preferably in TPB or omnibus form as I don't want to read comics on a screen or track down back issues. I've read a bit of the Dark Phoenix saga in an old trade that I had as a kid but other than that I've only checked out the more modern stuff like Morrison and then Wheddon after him. I enjoyed both but neither felt like 'proper' X-Men.
>>152281026back when Logan could still die.
>>152340678the Claremont Stuff is the real X-men for me. ive read mostly everything from Mutant Massacre to just before he left the X-books.
>>152338978Who doesn't miss the dream?
>>152340746Good times
>>152339755>>152339116Is it wrong that I wanted Scott to be on the Avengers and be chairman for a bit?
>>152342591Scott would actually make a pretty interesting Avenger. Mutants always seem to do well on them,
>>152343274Seems like an issue if they have another field tactician guy. Like when Mr. Fantastic was an Avenger for a few issues.
>>152342591>>152343274A bit of too much overlap with Cap.>>152340678>neither felt like 'proper' X-Men.Describes pretty well, specially for morrison. We talked a bit here about other runs from the 2000s that felt closer to later 80s Claremont.
I'm reading Thunderbolts and so far I'm liking it. But Abe having to face a murder trial is surprising. I guess not that much because Clint is very anti-killing, but has Erik really never killed someone before?
>>152344167I remember he did a number on Hercules but I think beyond that he was mostly Zemo's pawn.
>>152344130and then they made him into mutant mengele for some reason
>>152344368I deny this future.
>>152344368They had Dark Beast, why did they make good Beast into Dark Beast?
>>152344721because Hank is a Race Traitor and was on the Avengers
>>152344130It's fun to see that both in the comics and the TV show Wonder Man has some pretty loyal friends.
>>152344787>and the TV showwould you fuck off already you useless shill
>>152340678>This is Ultimate rightNo it's one of Lobdell's last issues on the adjectiveless X-Men comic before Morrison took over (and ruined everything)
>>152344830What.
>>152344879Not him, but is that from Eve of Destruction? Scott had the gray visor for a really short time before the morrison shitting, and had a really cool costume for a single issue that didn't even feature any action.
>>152344764Perez/Busiek run is the best
>>152345996It was truly the end of an era.
>>152345996How many times has Swordsman appeared in a group of undead people?
>>152340509No Vishanti either, come to think of it. I’m pretty sure they exist only in the name of the Book in the MCU. And there’s no way they’d remain as they are if they were adapted. Scary bug-guys alongside human women and ancient furries would probably seem too weird to normie eyes.
>>152345996Is "De nada" one of Busiek's stock phrases? I feel like I've seen it more times reading this than I have in any older Avengers stories.
>>152345985Yeah. X-Men #112
>>152346200Certainly more than once.
>>152346420Post Onslaught is kind of a weird place for X-men. Kind of directionless really. The Twelve was just a lot of noise.
>>152347375There was quite a bit between Onslaught and The Twelve, with some good stories, just mostly no peak X-Men. I kinda like Dream's End, a bit after The Twelve.>>152346420Half of that arc is Logan showing Scott respect and Scott being a chad in general. Magneto felt too out of character though, too edgy, which is a shame. It's mostly cool.
>>152345985>had a really cool costume for a single issue that didn't even feature any action.This thing? That's just the movie uniform drawn skintight.
>>152240372Stern run is best run.
>>152348028Not that anon you replied to but now I kinda want the Jim Lee outfit except with that type of visor and have an X-Force black/grey/light cyan type color scheme to it.
>>152240372Monica is such a stupid-looking character.
>>152349226She changes her hairstyle later if that is your problem.
>>152349226>>152349238I liked Monica
>>152277308nu-readers think speech bubbles in old comics are too cramped
>>152349256Me too. I liked her old silver costume and her old hair style.
>>152348028Nah, it was this one... though I remembered it looking about 20% cooler, somehow.>>152349256>>152349226>>152349341She used to lead the Avengers, you know.
>>152349500>20% cooler,IWTCIRD
>>152337211That's what I thought, too but then they get some scenes. Flash invites Pete to hangout a few different times including to watch the armored truck delivery that gets robbed by the Vulture and another issue coming up you see Pete habging out with him, Liz, and the gang at the bowling alley. Another time Flash gets mistakenly kidnapped by Dr. Doom the whole gang runs to Peter for help because they figure his smarts will help them solve the issue, and another time when Peter is trying to get himself kidnapped by a villian so he find his secret lair Flash pulls him aside and gives him a talking to about putting himself in danger because he's worried about him. In addition there's an issue you'll see coming up where Aunt May is sick in the hospital and Pete goes to visit her he finds Flash and Liz already there checking in on her, as well as another time when Peter almost gets expelled because he finally does haul back and clock Flash for mouthing off to him Flash goes to have a talk with the Principal and tells him the whole thing was his fault because he doesn't want Peter to get expelled and mess up his college plans.They don't get along the best but it does seem their somewhat friendly with each other.
>>152345996I don't trust Wizard after they shilled for Slott and handed him a career.
>>152349943Well you should trust us. We'd tell you if something was shit.
>>152349981... So you think Dan Slott's She-Hulk is "good"?That shit made me never want to invest in a female character every again.
>>152349943I don't trust Wizard either.>>152349981I definitely don't trust you.
>>152325365A few. Pic related was taken from Centaur Publications' Amazing-Man Comics from the 40s, for example.
>>152240319I'm a newer Marvel reader. I liked the MCU films (having read some of the classic stories I cringe at some of the changes now, especially for Thor), loved the 90s cartoons and Capcom Marvel video games growing up, but never read the comics outside of a few graphic novels. Was more of a manga guy anyway because I preferred their paneling and artstyles more. I skimmed through a Civil War TPB when I was a teen and hated everything there.Marvel Rivals restarted my interest in Marvel, and I looked up a random New Mutants Epic Collection and read it because I mained Magik in that game. Was interested despite the horrible Bird-Brain and Gosamyr storylines, mostly because of Bret Blevins' ability to draw hot teenage ass, kek.Moved onto reading Claremont's X-Men from Giant-Size onward and really grew to like the characters, especially Cyclops, Wolverine, Rogue, Gambit, Nightcrawler and Shadowcat. His New Mutants, after a rough start, was also great reading when Sienkiewicz starts drawing it. I liked Magik, Mirage, Cannonball and Cypher. Magma and Karma were incredibly dull, which is a shame because both girls had interesting backstories (although Nova Roma should've leaned more into swords 'n' sandals rather than being a glorified Roman LARP). In some ways, I prefer it to Uncanny X-Men. I also read Simonson's Thor run and Roger Stern's Avengers, both excellent. Also went back and read Roy Thomas' X-Men, and while it's quite dull at times, except for when the master Neal Adams was drawing it, it definitely has the framework there and it was a fun read.
>>152340111Yes, you missed an Ant-Man mini and Avengers Inc. It all happened over those two books.
>>152342591>Is it wrong that I wanted Scott to be on the Avengers and be chairman for a bit?Cyclops is a guy who'd really have benefitted as a character by being on another superhero team away from the X-books in an environment where nobody cared that he was a mutant, where modern Cyclops especially could re-learn to stop defining himself by that one thing, but Cyclops would also really benefit from being in an environment where he's not The Leader and someone else is calling the shots.
>>152337434>AMS #8's story with the Torch paints him pretty negatively for example and that's not even the most egregious example given how often Pete comes off like he's about to beat the shit out of everyone in his schoolThat's the best part about Ditko Spider-Man, kek. It's a really interesting run though, especially since it was the original Spider-Man run and it contrasts heavily to how the character is written and portrayed everywhere else.
>>152344167Most of the Thunderbolts had TRIED to kill people many times over the years, the Beetle had actually killed one guy in the Deadly Foes of Spider-Man mini. I guess they must have researched this at the time Abe had to turn himself in, and made sure none of the others had killed anyone, though Abe had been in and out of prison a lot of times between that mini and Thunderbolts, and if Hawkeye knew he'd killed that guy, the authorities must have known.Today you'd never get away with a redemption arc for Erik Josten purely because he was introduced as a merc working for Heinrich Zemo. In this day and age henching for a Nazi villain means you also must share his beliefs and you're irredeemable. Look at 80s-90s Crossbones compared with how he's treated today.
>>152347375>The Twelve was just a lot of noise.It's a 1980s Louise Simonson plot that Scott Lobdell picked up and had started seeding as an upcoming story when he got fired from X-Men. Joe Casey was writing Cable's book, and started building towards it as an end of the millennium storyline, only for editorial to decide it should be a crossover, throw something together at the last minute, and tried to pretend this had all been one coherent plan everyone had been in on since the 80s.Late 90s X-Men is just a slow decline where a good run could've righted the ship without breaking everything. Instead in the 2000s they just let star writers break everything.
>>152350414>mfw the closest we'll ever get to that is Champions
>>152349943Any reccomendations Wizard made during up to maybe 1999 or 2000 is worth looking intoAny reccomendations Wizard made in the 00s (that they didn't make in the 90s) you'd have to get a second or third opinion from elsewhere just in case.
>>152350006>... So you think Dan Slott's She-Hulk is "good"?Not remotely. But they're gonna be right once in while if only because of the broken clock phenomena. Busiek is not a controversial figure. Go read Astro City.
>>152350414What could have been
>>152349943Haven't read it yet, but people seemed to like his short Thing run.>>152350292>GosamyrBlevins went all out drawing that one
>>152351960He really did, he still draws Gosamyr every so often, too, which is hilarious to me with how quickly Simonson wrote out the character the first chance she got (and to this day, she's never acknowledged, while even Bird-Brain got an acknowledgement in a later New Mutants run so I heard, kek). Still have a soft spot for Simonson's New Mutants despite all its many flaws because of Blevins' art and Simonson's characterization of Illyana, so I have Blevins to thank for making me stick with 80s Marvel and reading the better stuff.In terms of 80s Marvel artists, I also liked Alan Davis (shame he didn't stick with a full run on Uncanny X-Men, Excalibur was just Claremont at his most self-indulgent, for better and worse), Arthur Adams (especially the more cartoony style he started adapting in the late 80s), Marc Silvestri and Paul Smith.
>>152351182I'll give it a look.
>>152331232I haven’t been on here since my message that you’re replying to, but I’ll check out Avengers inc. I haven’t read that one, and I really liked the 2022 mini and even NUltimate Hank to a degree. I haven’t been keeping up with Moon Knight as much as I wish I did so I didn’t realise he was turning up there, I’ll actually make the effort to read it.Thanks for the recommendations.
>>152352081>he still draws Gosamyr every so oftenThat's neat to hear>Simonson's characterization of IllyanaWas it Claremont that went full magicsl realm with the whole Limbo stuff, or did she do a bit too?
>>152353540I'm pretty positive that was all Claremont
>>152353540Claremont created everything to do with Illyana (her name, Limbo, demon sorcery) and made her character. I personally enjoyed the juxtaposition of soft sci-fi worldbuilding meeting magic when it came to Claremont's interpretation of the Marvel world. I just liked the way Simonson wrote Illyana, especially her inner angst and grief over what was done to her, and how she reacts as everything goes to hell after Doug dies.Speaking of Doug, the plotline Claremont foreshadowed about him slowly turning into a Technarch after constant fusion with Warlock was a missed opportunity for body horror kino. I also liked the Hellions and think they could have had more development. Empath felt like Claremont was building him up to be a serious threat in the future, at least until the New Mutants bullied him and cut his balls off kek.
>>152344368brian michael bendis, the writer. That is the reason.
>>152355238I mean, Douglock does happen later.And yeah it's good to see Ilyanna puting that smug little bitchboy in his place.
>>152355238>Empath felt like Claremont was building him up to be a serious threat in the future, at least until the New Mutants bullied him and cut his balls off kekit was pretty funny
>>152352081Hell Spyder came back and got killed while Gosamyr is gone.
>>152355754Really fun story. I liked Warlock a lot too in Claremont's New Mutants. Sienkiewicz really did wonders in portraying him as completely alien, although I like Arthur Adams and Bret Blevins' more cartoonish takes.>>152355912That's hilarious. I've wondered how much of Simonson's New Mutants were actually Blevins' ideas with how the Marvel Method works: Blevins clearly likes drawing weird looking creatures (really liked his take on Warlock, but Bird-Brain is just an obnoxious design) and pinup girls, and there's the story of Blevins pressuring Simonson to kill off Doug for Fall of the Mutants, despite Doug actually being pretty popular with the readers. Simonson's nowhere near the best writer in 80s Marvel either, but I did like what I've read of Power Pack and X-Factor.
this was a good thread.
>Gosamyr>seemingly naked under her veil considering she puts clothes over top her featureless body>Spent most of her appearance turning the team against each other because that is just how her race acts >uses empath shit on the boys to make them love her (same thing that got starfox canned) and causes the girl's power to malfunction>later said she can't even turn this shit off and this what causes her to leave>Hit on jack power because she has no concept of human ages>also going to turn into a solar system buster because her raise is just that strong and the only way for to not turn into a mindless monsters is thousands of years of hibernation As hot as Gosamyr is they wrote her into a corner with multiple bad features that would put off writers.
>>152243703Currently reading all the ASM comics and am on issue 577. When does it get good again?
>>152356720It's over
>>152356157>and there's the story of Blevins pressuring Simonson to kill off Doug for Fall of the Mutants, despite Doug actually being pretty popular with the readers.I've seen an anon here claiming this, but accounts of what happened usually mention that a lot of the people who actually bothered writing in to the book thought Cypher was a useless deadweight character, so they killed him, and then suddenly they got a lot of complaints from people who liked him. Hard to tell how much it was a divided fandom and how much was sheer /co/ntrarianism.
>>152357258Guess it was a case where he was a split fandom character, but the vocal fans who wrote in were united in their hatred of Doug, and so Simonson and Blevins gave them what they wanted (despite both Claremont and Simonson liking the character a lot), only to find out too late that he actually did have fans. Shame, really, he ended up being one of my faves from Claremont's run. He and Dani (who had big protagonist energy when Claremont was writing her, Simonson fumbled her) were the two characters I didn't expect to like as much as I did reading OG New Mutants.
>>152356481It's comics, maybe they could pull some Danger Room bullshit or get Reed Richards involved or even Magneto's genetics bullshit.Also I could swear Doug's death was drawn by Jon Bogdanove. Guess I probably didn't think much of Blevins' style and the hotties just grew on me over time.
>>152357796It's weird how both Doug and Warlock died in really stupid ways
>>152356379Amen, it’s been great while it lasted
>>15235853510 days. Not bad. Good posting, soldiers
Here's to better days.Great thread lads.
Thanks for the thread, frens.
>>152358608No, that's bad. Good threads tend to be quicker. I'm glad we survived this long though, because while the absolute worst threads get bumps, not even shitposters care about comics threads.
>>152240319https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTVxre3YXpo
>>152359170>anons in this thread watching it fall off the catalog together
Excelsior!
