Why is Hal beyond redemption for the actions he's committed but Megamind isn't when Megamind commits way more crimes than Hal and is responsible for Hal turning into Titan just because he was bored?And if Megamind justified because of his backstory then why isn't Hal given a backstory that makes his actions justified or explains why he is the way he is?The film is basically saying violent street criminals like Decarlos Brown Jr who continue to commit crime are more sympathetic than lonely neckbeards/incels who sit in there room all day playing video games, eating pizza and moaning about how they don't have a girlfriend.
>>152581279hes not the villain, thew whole movie is about moral ambiguity between whats good and evil.
>>152581279The problem isn't that Hal has done bad things, it's that Hal refuses to change. He feels the world owes him something for his performative nice guy behavior.
>>152581279Shut up, you retarded faggot
>>152581279>This thread for the 50 billionth timeNigger get a hobby
>>152581300The only reason Megamind changes is because he wants to fuck Roxanne and he couldn't give a fuck about the city or the people's lives. Also he is given a statue and labelled a hero despite all that he those and he is responsible for Hals actions for making Hal the way he is.
>>152581362Actually this is the first thread of its kind.
>>152581300>performative You can only be nice for so long after being treated like shit your whole life anon.
>>152582331>le "We live in a society"Bait used to be believable.
>>152581279 >The film is basically saying violent street criminals like Decarlos Brown Jr who continue to commit crime are more sympathetic than lonely neckbeards/incels who sit in there room all day playing video games, eating pizza and moaning about how they don't have a girlfriend.And they are correct, get fucked
>>152581279>The film is basically sayingthat megamind actually learns to change and embrace goodness while hal gets power for 2 seconds and goes off the deep endmegamind decided to be good despite society saying he should be evil while hal decided that he should be evil when his powers didnt automatically confer to him what he believes he is owed
>>152582331>>152582381>You either die a hero or live long enough to become the villainThere's a reason it's a saying. And it goes deeper into good vs evil, the concept of the self-sacrificing hero arch-type, and brings into question the questionable "noble pursuit" of sacrificing for a society, to an eternally ungrateful, vile and entitled society of idiots.
He actively terrorized peopleMegamind at worst was just like a kid who kept pranking people for years on end.
>>152581523Megamind was never that evil to begin with, he just did stereotypical evil things because it was expected of him and he enjoyed the back-and-forth with Metroman. He almost never actually did anything genuinely harmful, just stupid cartoon stuff that didn't even bother his direct target Roxanne very much.
>>152583404Megamind was basically just the Monarch, larping like he was in the The Guild of Calamitous Intent from Ventrue bros, where it's just a performative act with rules. For being a super genius and being an "outcast" if we can even call him that, he could of went the Syndrome route and just sold his shit to the government with R&D weapons. Or done something else to get people to like him, be a fucking inventor. At least Hal has the excuse he was never going to amount to anything and was at the bottom of the shit-heap and actually had a bone to pick with people. Megamind was an autismo with god-like intellect but somehow an idiot too.
>>152581279>that megamind actually learns to change and embrace goodness while hal gets power for 2 seconds and goes off the deep end>megamind decided to be good despite society saying he should be evil while hal decided that he should be evil when his powers didnt automatically confer to him what he believes he is owedbecause Megamind was comparatively nonviolent, meanwhile Hal was ready to jump right to murder really quickly and that's not a good thing whatsoever when it comes to someone with Superman grade powers
>>152583556This. Dude finds out he got pranked, and proceeds to chimp out and kill the dude who at worst, made him think he was the shit for a few days. Worst thing Megamind did was not teach Hal that heroes are selfless and never misuse their powers
>>152583733>Humiliation ritualism for Hal's entire life>Thinks he's won the golden ticket and is convinced he has entirely different parents and looking forward to a new life>Proceeds to go "just a joke dude, now mock-fight me, also I fucked the woman you are pursuing"Megamind deserved to get crushed.
>>152581279Megamind was the personality of a Saturday morning cartoon villain while Hal wanted to kill everyone
>>152583355>There's a reason it's a saying.It's not. It's just a movie quote.>Arch-typeIt's 'archetype'.
>>152584055even before he met megamind, he was using his powers to steal things and had a plan to team up with megamind and take over the cityhe said it himself, he only wanted to be a hero to win over roxanne, and without roxanne, he immediately devolves to villainyeven ignoring the fact he tries to commit murder, he already committed a dozen other crimes
>>152584055>Humiliation ritualism for Hal's entire lifeHal's only got himself to blame for being a friendless loser>Thinks he's won the golden ticket and is convinced he has entirely different parents and looking forward to a new lifeIt's literally just being Punk'd, nobody ever tried to shoot Aston Kutcher for pranking them>Proceeds to go "just a joke dude, now mock-fight me, also I fucked the woman you are pursuing"Like he even had a chance with Roxanne
>>152584146>StealingThat was probably Hal's giant fuck up, mixed with having one-itis for Roxanne.
>>152584186Hal wasn't the smartest and was a legit brainlet, but Megamind was even more retarded for giving a rando superhuman powers, fucking with said mentally unstable (now superpowered) human, and convinced them they had "real" parents, only to take it away and fuck with him. Megamind doesn't get nearly enough shit for this.
>>152584271>but Megamind was even more retarded for giving a rando superhuman powers,that was acknowledged as a misstep in his judgement because he is too proud to admit he made a mistake and he is too obsessed with the need to have a nemesis>only to take it away and fuck with himbecause when it turned out that tighten didnt want to fight him, he pulled the rug out from under him to make him angry enough to fight >Megamind doesn't get nearly enough shit for this.because he is repeatedly punished for it in the movie itself, called out on being wrong from other characters over it, and is almost killed by it
>>152584271He didn't give Hal the powers on purpose though
>>152584308>because he is repeatedly punished for it in the movie itselfLmfao, the only person who got in any kind of real trouble was Hal. Despite apparently everyone knowing that Megamind gave Hal his god-like powers. Like giving a mentally ill, drugged up homeless man a firearm. Although at this level, giving someone god-like human-weapon powers. Even then, Hal had issues if we're gonna go to the fact that despite being "re-raised" by his new parents he still ended up stealing, which really brings into question too what happened to Hal before all of this, and that Megamind couldn't be bothered to do anything about Hal other than trying to stroke his own villain ego asap, and then mocking the clearly unhinged god-like entity. Megamind got off easy, got the girl, and became the city's hero, despite all of this was his own doing and undoing. The only redeeming fact is Megamind can at least clean up his own messes, but holy fuck, he fucked up hard with Hal.>>152584338But he also didn't take it away either.
>>152584426He did though, at the end, but he still took the powers back
>>152584432He should of taken it away asap before Hal transformed and saved the city probably multiple deaths.
>>152584444He didn't know Hal was going to turn into a psycho, dude's an alien who still barely knows anything about earthlings despite being on the planet for 20-30 years
>>152584426>Lmfaoroxanne literally tells megamind that things keep blowing up in his face>Megamind got off easy, got the girl, and became the city's hero, despite all of this was his own doing and undoinghe got his happy ending only after being a loser and getting kicked around for 3/4ths of the filmthings only start going his way when he embraces his destiny to become a superhero rather than a supervillain>The only redeeming fact is Megamind can at least clean up his own messesbeing able to acknowledge you made a mistake and then to help clean it up is one of the hardest things one can do and megamind did itthis is in contrast to hal, who keeps blaming everything on other people, never owning up his own wrong doings, and then deciding to be evil when he realizes being good takes workmegamind was acting the part of a villain because he believed being good would never reward him, and being the villain gave him a purposein the end, he went out to correct his own mistake, the good thing to do, whether or not he would be rewarded for it or acknowledged for itindeed, he initially disguised himself as metroman, so if his plan to scare of hal worked, he would have saved the world entirely in the dark with no one knowing he did goodshowing that "what was the point of being good if everyone treats you evil" was "being good is the point of being good"in contrast to hal, who immediately chooses evil when good held no reward
Riffing on Jimmy Olsen. But, like, I don't like him because camera operators are smarter than journalists, many of whom don't even need a degree in journalism. Many of them are former starlets with a basic theater background. Other than that, I just don't really like this movie.
>>152584426What issues? Hal was just a loser who lacked proper understanding of social cues. You act like he had some tragic upbringing and was entirely blameless in his behavior
>>152584426>Being an incel is the same as a mentally ill, drugged up homeless manl m a o
>>152584444Yeah, I always hate it when fictional characters don't behave in a way that prevents any kind of story from being told.
>>152584555Hal feel more like a Ned Leeds than Jimmy Olsen.Jimmy was a chad, while Ned can't spent 2 years without fucking his life and going full hobgoblin
>>152582331Who exactly treated him like shit? Megamind barely knew who he was, suggesting he left Hal along during all the times Roxanne was kidnapped. And Roxanne was overall nice to him, at least until he got all stalkery on her
>>152581279Hal isn't any worse than megamindjust like Gaston isn't any worse than the Beast
>>152585387I mean, Gaston was a lot worse than the beast since he nearly had a man committed because he thought he could wave the possibility of incarceration over Belle, and the led an unprovoked attack on the Beast's castle after only seeing him for five seconds in a magic mirror.
>>152585387Have you even watched beauty and the beast
>>152581279Anon, you do remember that Megamind was fully willing to go back to jail after everything was said and done and face the music for all his misdeeds, right? He only became a hero to honor Metro Man’s wishes that he become Metro City’s new protector. And Hal really just got the same supervillain treatment every supervillain does of being thrown in jail.Like, did you misrepresent the movie somehow? Or are you self-inserting as Hal and angry on Space mom’s behalf?
>>152585442OP's probably the same kind of person that genuinely thinks Tai Lung was wronged and ignores the fact that he literally laid waste to the valley because he got denied a destiny that wasn't his. Probably even thinks Shifu is terrible despite the fact that Shifu never even told his son about his ambitions for him.
>>152582331what >>152585318 said, dude seemed to be functioning fine and wasn't shat on by anybody.
>>152585417No, I don't watch movies; I just listen to people complain about them and then imagine the events that happen in them. It saves time.
>>152585499>This is the person I'm getting into heated arguments with on /co/.Friendly reminder to never take this website seriously.
>>152585465Yeah, it’s always funny how people act like Tai Ling “deserved” to have the Dragon Scroll when we outright see what his reaction would have been had he gotten it right at the end. The furry outright built up the scroll as some big dbz power up moment, only to scream “It’s nothing!” when he finally got it. He would likely have just had an autistic meltdown rampage burning down the village demanding the “real scroll” and gotten sent to prison over it anyways, and Oogway clearly knew it with how everyone else has built up the position of Dragon Warrior in their minds. Like, that’s the whole point of preparing someone to be Dragon Warrior, cultivating the mentality that titles and magic chatzkis by themselves are nothing at the end of the day and it’s one’s own hard work and self-improvement that matters most. Even the far more humble dumpy protagonist struggled with understanding the scroll in the movie and needed a heart to heart with his father to finally get it, so no goddamn way a puffed up prideful prodigy like Tai Lung would have understood it.
>>152585542>only to scream “It’s nothing!” when he finally got it.he was saying that to his own reflectioneven if he did understand what it meant, that would also mean realizing that he had spent every day of his life training not for self-improvement or to attain understanding but simply to gain a titlehe is nothing because he defines himself solely by the title of dragon warrior rather than what that title represents, which is balance
>Incel OP self inserts as Hal and cannot understand the concept of being a good person for its own sake and not any sort of reward then blames Le society for being an angry man childIts like you missed the entire point of Hal as a character and learned nothing from him. But I guess that's why incels stay the way they are. No insight, no self reflection and a permanent chip on their shoulder.
>>152585542>>152585556The only thing I can say is that Shifu could have had the mind to bring up Tai Lung to Oogway, who then could have said "dude, your son is talented, but you push him too hard and he's aiming for a destiny he isn't suited for" and things might have been fine. Beyond that, it's just insane how people jerk off the big cat like he's some tragic figure and head-canoning this weird reality where Tai Lung is somehow the most relatable person in all media.
Hal is proof that ugly fat people are inheritly unstable retards who may or may not be evil
>>152585613Because it's the overachiever vs the underachiever, also being content and never being content with yourself. But Tai Lung was essentially groomed from his youth with one goal in mind, and then nothing. This kinda falls on Shifu and Oogway who gave him extreme tunnel vision towards an ultimate goal, and then Tai Lung had nothing. That's what makes Tai Lung rather tragic. But this psy-op bullshit that there's nothing tragic about these characters is retarded. On a side note, with Hal, we can only infer about his past or upbrining, and Tai Lung we see it as pretty much a straight path of extreme training. Then Po comes along and just does a day's training montage with Shifu and wins because plot armor.
>>152585639>plot armorCan we please abandon this term?
>>152585613I imagine that peach convo Oogway and Shifu had in the movie was to demonstrate how that kind of talk would have gone. Shifu would have begrudgingly gone along with it, but he would have fervently argued that neither he nor his pupil did anything wrong the entire way since he did everything he was supposed to as a teacher and Tai Ling just followed his instructions to the letter. When the whole point was that he committed the cardinal sin of being a father and a teacher in that he loved his son too much to want to deny him what he felt he had earned, and too prideful both as teacher and parent to tell him he was unworthy.But yeah, people jerk off Tai Lung way too much as being a tragic figure and forgetting he burned a village down for a piece of reflective paper.
>>152585646>Fatass who never moved much in his entire life somehow becomes one of the most agile and powerful fighters there ever, fighting against another who trained almost from birth>No, you can't talk about having plot armorSure.
>>152585670>for a piece of reflective paper.It wasn't just the paper, it was a lifelong goal that was forced onto him as an orphan, and it's a title/position.
>>152585639Shifu is really the only one to blame though. While Oogway could have said something about the darkness in Tai Lung, he probably expected Shifu to have some parental common sense and notice his SON wasn't 100% there.But even then, Tai Lung is only tragic in so far that his dad pushed him to be the best, but that's the extent of it. Tai Lung made the decision all by himself to lash out and attack the valley of peace, possibly killing some people. Even if he didn't, whatever he did was clearly enough to get him locked in his own personal jail for 20+ years.
>>152585679That’s my point, the scroll itself became his fixation point rather than just the final notch on his journey to being the culmination of his hard work and father’s teachings, and he’d have burned down the village either way once he felt his destiny was thwarted, whether it be Oofway and Shifu turning their backs on him or him actually getting the scroll and not finding it imbuing him with some kind of higher power like everyone expected.
>>152585672What plot armor? Po was trained by taking advantage of his natural inclination towards food, the movie literally points this out when Shifu realizes that Po can do great feats if there's food involved. Yes, it happens over the course of a few days or whatever, but so what? The movie wasn't being entirely realistic with its depiction of Kung Fu when you have a fucking mantis that's barely six inches tall able to beat the shit out of animals 30x his size.
>>152585693Looking at how much of a hardass Shifu was, he made a super solider with one ultimate goal in mind and nothing else. And Oogway should of said something, he's apparently the ultimate spiritual/kung-fu wise one, but stood back and did nothing, then told Tai Lung, tough shit, you're not the one, you're evil. Despite being raised right next to Oogway in his own damn temple. But then Oogway helped guide Po and helped Shifu guide Po too. Unless Oogway was negligent himself with Tai Lung, since it's his temple, and he has some mysticism powers. But they dropped the ball on Tai Lung, and even then, if we're gonna retroactively go to the fourth movie, Tai Lung has a change of heart when he accepts Po. But people act like everyone is supposed to be perfect at every single moment of their lives, especially something as emotionally and self-value charged as was the goal of being a chosen one.
>>152583355
>>152585744Not like he rubbed it in Tai Lung's face, he just said he's not the one and the scroll isn't for him. While he probably should have expected an outburst, that still goes back to Shifu for pushing his son to the point of literal injury, but even then that's the extent of reasonable blame. Oogway, while indeed very spiritual, clearly didn't like meddling in affairs unless absolutely necessary, as seen when he encouraged Po's journey in the first film and sending the universe mail in the third since there was impending perils.
>>152585744Given we only have Tigress’s account for what happened, I find it more likely that Oogway’s attempts to explain to Shifu where he went wrong teaching Tai Lung went over his head and that he went along with his teacher’s wisdom without actually understanding the reasoning for it, considering the only thing he changed about his teaching methods was to completely close himself off rather than change his approach to kung fu entirely. And it’s not even like Tai Ling nor Shifu did anything bad up to that point, just too full of their own pride as teacher and student/father and son to accept Oogway’s judgement in their hearts. Tai Lung just chose to lash out rather than castigate himself like his teacher did, and people suffered for it.
>>152585672I'm talking about the term itself. It's lost whatever meaning it once had and is now nothing more than a useless buzzword.
>>152583404>Megamind was never that evil to begin withHe was pretty happy to begin with when he thought he murdered Metroman. That's pretty evil. He really had no remorse for that murder until he decided it was boring without a hero around.
>>152585822God, you have so much plot armor on right now, I wanna take it off of you and ravish you raw.
>>152585842True, but he was also in disbelief, showing that while he was trying, he wasn't exactly hoping for the outcome. It was clearly part of the "game" he saw in their arrangement. Megamind "tries" to kill Metro Man, fails, and tries again the next time since that's what villains "do" as far as he understood. At the end of the day, Megamind was about as evil as a cult member who was born and raised by the beliefs of their cult, more tragic than actually a bad person.
>>152585842Then he takes over the city and starts stealing and vandalizing shit too.
>>152585872The fuck did he even get those piles of gold bars anyway? Metrocity eventually more wealthy than Dubai.
>>152585850L-Lewd.
>>152585872So, the same things he did before, except not a single person got hurt despite having full impunity to do whatever he wanted with no heroes in sight. Which Roxanne hit the nail on the head as more like overly showy grabs for attention than serious attempts to vandalize the city.
what did he even do wrong besides try to kill megadork and pajeet the reporter lady? >he took over the cityblue-yakub already did the work of conquering the city. and he also did so with zero casualties. its P-G innit?>destroy a bunch of buildingswhich probably happened in every Metroman fight>stole a bunch of money and fancy junk but then puts it in his tiny ass apartmentinstead of idk...forcefully taking over the largest mansion in the city? he coulda stole a yatch or something.he didnt kill any civilians. didnt venture outside the city to try to take over the planet or anything. he was just an dumb incel having a field day with chad strength and superpowers.also it took forever for me to realize his name is actually "Tighten" not "Titan" lol
>>152585916Hell, the only really serious thing he did was bomb that museum, and even then nobody was harmed since the only guy who happened to be there got turned into a cube for 90% of the film. Metro Man was probably glad to hear the museum got blasted since it meant his old image was further erased and he'd have less problems once he debuts as Music Man.
>>152585920>what did he even do wronghe literally ruined the city so hard people were leaving in droveshe was worse than megamind and it wasnt even closemegamind caused some unrest then got bored of it, hal delighted in his destruction
>>152585920He was clearly ready to kill and actively tried several times to murder Megamind and Roxanne. He may not have succeeded, but he clearly had the drive to, as seen with the training montage where he melted the dummy with the malice of a kid burning ants with a magnifying glass.
>>152581279Self-inserting is so fucking retarded dude, I've never seen anyone rationalize it in a way that didn't make them sound completely insane
>>152586160Seriously. It's one thing to say that Hal didn't deserve some of the crap he went through, like getting the powers shot at him entirely by accident, but it doesn't change the fact that he clearly handled things terribly and is lucky that didn't actually murk anybody during his reign as Titan, so with luck, he might get out of prison in reasonable time, though probably with years of public service to pay back for all the damaged property he caused.
>>152584453He’s just as culturally human as Hal, he grew up transracially on earth. He’s just socially inept.
>>152585822you know just because a word gets overused doesn't mean it loses its meaning. Otherwise the word "the" would have lost all meaning by now and people wouldn't continue to use it.
>wrecks the city, almost kills the protagonist and the girl in a fit of rage because he didn't get what he wanted>duh why is he the villain?Kill yourself.
>>152586522Ah, just when I was beginning to wonder if I'd stumble upon any retarded logic today.
>>152586160Self-inserting is GOOD.... when you don't self insert as losers
Tai Lung should somehow return and be like Roah. He retrained himself and now his fist is even acknowledged by the heavens. If would be interesting if his former master and friends don't work on him like what happened with Toki and Raoh.
>>152586801*Former master and friends fist/fighting styles don't work*
>He was being nice and Roxance treated him like shitHe acted the way that he think was nice but in reality not really. Let check the first scene of his where he, Roxance's cameraman, dismissed what she said and try to hit on her despite he still think that Roxance is Metroman GF (Only Roxance know that they weren't a couple, everyone assumed that they were a couple). Nice people don't go around trying to woo other people GF. Then Hal invite her on a "date" at his home without thinking about her reference. His entire logic was that "chick like boucing castle". Sorry, you can't pursuit a romantic relationship if you don't even know what the other party like. Also Roxance never treat him badly, she said clearly she wasn't interest in hanging in a ball pool. Also she was his boss so dating between them would be really unprofessional.
>>152584055>Roxanne reject me?>that it, I will be a criminal!
>>152584055>Humiliation ritualism for Hal's entire lifeRoxanne is nice to him even when he is being incredibly rude to her.
>>152586390He still clearly doesn't understand the concept of things like "power corrupts absolute" and stuff like that though
>>152586801If the fourth movie hadn't been dogshit that decided Po needed to start looking for a successor despite only being the Dragon Warrior for like five weeks. They had all the opportunity to have Tai realize that Po is indeed worthy of the title, prepare to return to the spirit realm, only for Po to tell him his destiny is to remain in the land of the living and go on a journey of self discovery. Could have led to a one-off film where Tai Lung and maybe even Shifu travel together, restoring their bond as father and son, and Tai ultimately finding redemption by recognizing that he never needed to be the Dragon Warrior, that he was already a great master in his own right, and that he was able to achieve greatness and earn a title that would his and his alone.
>>152587614This. She's really put off by his advances (and still reeling from realizing she may be falling in love with the guy who has been kidnapping her for at least a decade), and she at worst just says "slow your roll, you're coming in a bit too strong"Lisa snapping at Ralph was more brutal than what Roxanne did to Hal
