Anons, I'm kind of getting the sense that Marvel really doesn't know what to do with Captain America anymore. And I say this as someone who's intensely loved the character ever since I saw the old Marvel Super-Heroes cartoon serials on VHS when I was 9Pretty much all the adaptations want so desperately to be Brubaker and almost none want to have the whimsical dignity of Kirby or Jurgens and it kind of hurts me. DeMatties or Gruenwald's runs weren't perfect but they showed how to properly do an action adventure comic about an Rip Van Winkle analogue with super human powers
>>152587659It's tough when everything is so shit.
>>152587659Good. The less current Marvel wants to touch a character, the better.
>>152588262based
>>152587659Anon, Marvel is SHIT.Shit, shit, SHIT.Abandon current day Marvel until they get a clue.
>>152589276THIS! FUCKING THIS!STOP GIVING THEM MONEY STUPID CUNTS!
>>152587659That's been the refrain since the end of WW2. How many fucking times has Cap 'given up' and gone on a journey to 'find America' for example? How many fucking times has some fuckass called Cap out for being out of touch because he doesn't know what the fuck MySpace is or some dumb popculture shit that was on its way out of relevancy when the comic was published?It's the same problem Superman has.
The problem is they see a guy called CAPTAIN AMERICA and suddenly think everything he has has to say or do needs to be some kind of major importance of society. He does just fine when you have him fight snake themed badguys. Maybe instead of trying to reinvent everything you just tell a simple super hero story.
>>152589276>>152590498Shan't.
>>152588234This.
>>152587659He's a relic of a long gone era who is running out of time
>>152590625I would kill for a Waid style "World's Finest" book with Steve and Tony desu. Betcha it'd sell like gangbusters too>>152592020Yes, by all intents and purposes, Steve is quaint doesn't fit in. But that's the point, he exists to quietly remind us that man still can do great things and that standing up for the little guy never goes out of style
>>152590598>It's the same problem Superman has.This.You can't have a patriotic hero if your writers aren't patriotic.
>>152592276It's more "Can we even be proud of being American?"I doubt it, considering how warlike we've become
>>152592748they should bite the bullet and introduce captain israel already
>>152592784...Anon, we have her
>>152590625It goes with the territory. America doing shitty things tends to reflect poorly on the guy wearing the flag around his waist, even if he isn't the one responsible for its shittiness and even if he tries to live up to the ideal rather than the reality.>>152592245>I would kill for a Waid style "World's Finest" book with Steve and Tony desu. Betcha it'd sell like gangbusters tooThere was already a book like that not too long ago.>>152592748That's pretty much it, it's hard to present a bright image on the character extolling the virtues of their country when the reality is much uglier and not exactly getting any better any time soon.>>152592784Anon, she already exists.
>>152593121Yyep
>>152593121That's primarily the issue, nothing can change drastically, and Marvel isn't going to let one of their most well-known icons take such a hard turn that he goes full Solid Snake and sideline the government at every opportunity. Even the times when he told the government to go fuck itself, his turn never went as hard as it should have, nor did it stick, because the nature of the medium makes it so he can never evolve.
>>152593459Isn't it sad how the only thing that has been allowed to change long-term is Miles?
>>152592748Lame and Gay reasoning. People, who are rather stupid, can be proud to be American without being a U.S. equivalent of a Vatnik. To borrow a term from the CCP, people need to purge themselves of Historical Nihilism
>>152593459I think for a while they tried to say that Cap never killed, not even in the WW2, and when Bucky came back as Winter Soldier they revealed it was Bucky who did all the killing. I think after Ult Cap said "this A does not stand for France!" they let 616 Cap have killed in the WW2, but only like as "strictly necessary" and making sure to really stress that he took no pleasure in it and other gay shit like that.
>>152593625Well, shit, I messed up there and now my argument looks retarded. I meant to say people with Historical Nihilism are stupid that Americans can feel pride in their country without Co-Signing their government
>>152593459I mean they could do that for some tine and when things calm down irl make him change back, its not like they have never done this before
>>152593628Let's be real, no mentally stable soldier truly takes pleasure in killing
>>152593817Yes, you're correct. I just take umbrage with how pearl-clutching it was, as if killing Nazi combatants during WW2 indelibly tarnished Cap and made him less of a hero.
>>152593628>and making sure to really stress that he took no pleasure in it and other gay shit like that.As it should be, otherwise he'd be a psychopath.>>152593855That's fine, it was pretty stupidly contrived how they tried to justify a World War 2 soldier constantly on the frontlines never once killed a single enemy combatant, especially when he's side by side with other soldiers shooting and throwing grenades while he's splitting tanks in half, all because they conflated not killing with being moral. That's fine for Spider-Man, not for a character whose entire origin is operating on the frontlines against Nazi Germany.
>>152593855I can accept him not killing criminals, AKA men often ousted by society and deserving of a second chance
Iron Man and Captain America are really hard to modernize because the archetypes they represent are, at this point, very villainous.A rich dude and a patriot, two things that have caused issues in the modern USA.
>>152593960>That's fine for Spider-Man, not for a character whose entire origin is operating on the frontlines against Nazi Germany.I wouldn't be morally outraged or see Spider-Man as tarnished if killed, say, Carnage, personally.>>152594055I can as well. I'm not advocating that Cap should take his shield and decapitate your average purse-snatcher or Strawman #54, but killing Nazi combatants on the frontlines of WW2 or in one of his missions with the Howling Commandos? I just don't see the problem with Cap killing there and I don't think it needs pearl-clutching moralizing to excuse it.
>>152592748>I doubt it, considering how warlike we've becomeYou yanks were always warlike, you just grew ashamed of it after 'nam.
>>152594180Spider-Man as a character shouldn't be expected to follow through with it, he's not conditioned for it, which is fine, not all characters have to cross that line. It's only when he does something like stepping in front of a killing strike meant for someone like Carnage is when it gets retarded.
>>152590625If the guy dressing up as a WW2 American armed forces mascot didn't want to be associated with the American military-industrial complex then maybe he should consider a different costume.
>>152594180>I wouldn't be morally outraged or see Spider-Man as tarnished if killed, say, Carnage, personally.If anything he comes across like kind of a sanctimonious dickhead for arguing against it.
World War 2 ended 81 years ago. Modern America, hell, the modern West, is very rapidly losing touch with the last traces of it. Indeed, the Postwar Order, the geopolitical settlement that came out of World War 2, is falling apart around us as we speak.Cap worked best when World War 2 was in the past but not TOO far in the past. I'd argue his heyday was from the 1970s to the 2010s. The MCU basically came along at the perfect time to put Captain America onscreen. World War 2 was remote but not TOO remote. There were still plenty of WW2 veterans around and the feel of it as an important cultural touchstone was still present everywhere.That's no longer the case. World War 2 and everything associated with it is ceasing to be living history and becoming, well, just history. This is sapping Captain America of a lot of his power.
>>152595026Ain't that a bitch
>>152595026Yeah, scenes like pic related are basically impossible now. The sliding time scale is fundamentally altering Cap as a character, more so than it does other superheroes.
>>152595685I mean, it amplifies how lonely he is
>>152592276Full context for that "America is a piece of trash" quote is good and patriotic though.
>>152595685I did a rewrite of Marvel, and Cap just utterly loses his composure when he finds out Bucky is alive
>>152595734It's a fundamentally different character plight.Cap was written as a man who lost years of his life, now he's effectively a time traveler.Cap still having roots he can reconnect with, old war buddies he personally knew and such, highlighted the tragedy that while he became a war hero the people he cared about had to move on and a life he could have lived was in his reach but taken from him.Now he's just a stranger on a strange world, with nothing tying him to his old life, aside from other ageless superheroes that don't have that same connection to Steve Rogers the soldier boy.Captain America went from being Rip Van Winkle to being John Carter of Mars.
>>152587659Brubaker was boring Gruenwald's run was decent and had a supporting cast.
