There's a new Firestorm coming out in April so screw it, let's read some old comics starting with Firestorm, the Nuclear Man #1-5.Firestorm was created in 1978 by Gerry Conway and Al Milgrom debuting in his own eponymous series with the conceit being that instead of one person it's two people fused into one: high schooler Ronnie Raymond and Professor Martin Stein. Firestorm had great power although Ronnie, usually the one in control, would need the presence of the wiser Prof. Stein to make sure he was using it responsibly. As that indicates the character was an attempt to give DC their own Spider-Man style character with a young and inexperienced and sometimes flippant high schooler whose superhero life some times comes with drawbacks for his personal life. Also, it takes place largely in NYC and of course, much of it was written by a guy most famous for his Spider-Man stories.
Firestorm's series would become a victim of the DC Implosion, however, and get the axe after only five issues but that wasn't the end of the character. Conway would bring Firestorm over to Justice League of America as well as a series of backups in Flash before getting a new ongoing that would run for 100 issues. Through the '90s Ronnie/Firestorm would pop up here and there seeing his most extensive use in Extreme Justice and the later part of Joe Kelly's JLA run before being killed off in Identity Crisis with a new character, Jason Rusch, becoming Firestorm. Jason's series would last for 35 issues.
My intent is to try and see if I can do all of the original series, the '80s series and the 2000s series. Outside of a few other stories like the Flash backups, though, I intend to stick to the solos.
First appearances as well of Doreen Day, Ronnie's love interest during Conway's time with the character, and Clifford Carmichael. Part of the intent also seems to be invert the Spider-Man thing, almost like what would have happened if a nicer version of high school Flash Thompson became a superhero while Peter Parker was the asshole bully.
When John Ostrander takes over in the latter half of the '80s series he seems to have no use at all for the characters from Conway's time wit the character as most of the supporting cast will disappear while the villains get shunted off to act as fodder in Suicide Squad.Doreen will get it the worst as she straight up disappears after the story that really sets direction Ostrander wants and I don't think has ever appeared again outside of it.
I'll take short breaks inbetween issues.
Issue 2
Yes
Issue 3
>>152671859>Ronnie RaymondWhy did they kill him off?
>>152672446Seeing as he died and Jason was immediately introduced and became Firestorm and it was the 2000s...When in doubt, assume that DiDio hated the character and thought he was lame or something.
>>152671882He looks powerful.
>>152671944So you were allowed to say "retarded" in comics at the time?
>>152672674It wasn't really until the 2010s where it became verboeten.
One more issue. This collection also includes the unpublished black and white version of issue 6 from Cancelled Comics Cavalcade. But since it's non-canon as the story itself did eventually see print, in reworked form, as part of the backup feature in Flash and as I don't really have the time, I'm not bothering with it.
Issue 5
Alex Ross does not like Firestorm
>>152672999Alex Ross does not like anything created after like 1966 and I've never cared for his art.
>>152672443-1000CJesus Christ, that is much less than absolute zero. Is that like anti-movement for molecules? >>152672481So this is the difference between DC and Marvel. Women named Frost actually have icy powers.
>>152673019Okay I was wrong, Ross's cutoff is the late '70s because he got mad over the deaths of Aquaman's son and Iris West. I guess I get it but I think my DC cutoff point of Flashpoint is more reasonable.
>>152673075This was when it was expected or common to have a villain whose name was kind of punny. Only about a year or two after this is the introduction of Roy G. Bivolo.
>>152672999Which one?
>>152673095Any of them. He makes it a point to never include Firestorm when doing pictures of the Justice League just like how he refused to draw/paint Kyle Rayner for Kingdom Come.
And that does it for the first Firestorm series as, despite promises, this wound up being the last issue. It would thus take a few years before this hanging plot thread with Hyena was resolved.Anyway as long as there's interest to keep going, then next time will cover a few "inbetween" appearances with DC Comics Presents #17 and Justice League of America #179-180. Typically I'll stay away from the non-solo stuff but since it's the issues that revolve around him joining I'll include them.
>>152673125Oh, I checked, it is because of Iris' death.
>Make Firestorm half-drunk to make Multiplex more of a threatWell that is an interesting approach. Did the writer talk about his decision-making for this series? There are a lot of things that feel strange. Prof Stein's blackout aspects are probably thee worst, but also introducing conventional gangsters who probably can't do shit when Hyena seemed to reply on Firestorm not fighting effectively to begin with.
>>152673521He seems to be playing with the Spider-Man formula, instead of a nerd, the hero is the jock, the professor is a drunkard, etc...
>>152673585Yeah, instead of a nerd with athletic powers it's a jock with science powers. Firestorm is powerful but requires someone who knows science and shit to use those powers to their full capabilities and a high school athlete isn't really going to be that.
Thanks. I've been interested in reading some Firestorm since the new book got announced. The only comic I own with him is a trade of his section from the Legends of Tomorrow anthology book.
>>152673585>>152671986>Wolf-Man>Nova also has a played with Spider-Man formulaI wonder if this is intentional.
>>152673673Gerry Conwayhad a lot of experience writing him.
>>152671955I've always thought Multiplex should be a bigger villain to Firestorm, maybe even their arch considering how involved he is since the very beginning.Nowadays, like most other Firestorm villains, he's just kinda villain fodder, his most memorable recent role was fighting Hal and Barry at some point, working (and dying) for Black Adam, and being in the Dark Crisis.
>>152671999>ot enough to make a single manOh, foreshadowing
>>152672025They look like they are dancing
>>152672006HE EVEN GETS HIS POWERS AT THE SAME TIME!Come on! It's like poetry, it rhymes, he should be way more involved in Firestorm stories instead of just being other villains' lackey.
>>152671955>>152672006It's honestly kind of amazing how little DC cares about Firestorm that they allowed Johns to completely retcon his whole mythos and have the Professor secretly groom and manipulate Ronnie into becoming Firestorm with him.They would never allow such a massive change on a bigger character, but Firestorm? Sure I guess, since apparently no one fucking cares about them.
>>152672140Oh, superdickery
>>152673905They also do it with major characters, see what happened to Jor-el.
>>152673893This is my first time reading Firestorm, so I'm surprised if that is the case. Outside of maybe some hero vs villain balance issues, seems like he's supposed to be the main bad guy.
>>152673843My problem is that Multiplex is just sort of lame. I get the fusion vs. fission aspect but he's basically just a dull Multiple Man and even in these stories doesn't come off as THAT much of a threat. Hyena and Tokamak are really the better options I think. Mindboggler should have been the sympathetic Catwoman style villain for Ronnie instead of being Squad fodder. Killer Frost is obviously the most notable though.Cliff would have been fine if he'd stayed in Firestorm instead of getting moved to Suicide Squad. The Hyena curse should have gotten passed onto Doreen too.
>>152673958Since /co/ doesn't seem to read comics, I must always bring up that the Mr. Oz bullshit was originally meant to specifically not be in-character for Jor-El, and something that was being done to him against his will by Dr. Manhattan through Kryptonite poisoning in his brain, something Superman discovered, but couldn't do anything about before Manhattan took him away. It was Bendis who completely ignored that detail and played him completely straight as an amoral mad scientist who was the reason Krypton was destroyed in the first place.After Bendis left, DC started course correcting his character hard any chance they got, Waid in particular when he got to write his Phantoms storyline and acknowledged how the Phantom Zone was a cruel and unusual punishment, having it so Jor-El didn't even want his invention to be used like that.Hell, he's even getting an Elseworld story where he lands on Earth and becomes Superman, so DC definitely still sees the character as good and pushes that any chance he gets.And yes, I'm specifically talking about the books, don't care about the movies since that's a whole separate thing and everyone is aware that it's a big departure from the classic characterization of the character.It's not comparable to saying that the Professor actually planned to become Firestorm all along and sticking with it.
>>152672381Oh, it is surprising that she was introduced so soon
>>152673958I forgot to mention that it's also not just the Professor being painted in a negative and manipulative light, but also a handful of their enemies being retconned as intentional metahumans made by the government.It's just such a cynical reframing of Firestorm's lore that they wouldn't dare do with a character people actually cared about.
>>152672453Woman moment.
>>152672667The hyena
>>152674207>It was Bendis who completely ignored that detailBendis ignoring shit you say? Surely not.
>>152672789I wonder what happened
>>152674366Crystal is the less well known compared to Louise Lincoln who was Killer Frost from the '80s up until the reboot (and is thus presumably the DCAU one).The character is actually part of a whole song and dance of DC/WB trying to screw people out of royalties. The Arrowverse version was Caitlin Snow, the current comics version created by Dan Jurgens but IIRC used a version of the Crystal Frost moniker. So WB tried to argue that Jurgens wasn't entitled to royalties because it was actually based on the Conway/Milgrom version but because it wasn't explicitly Crystal then it was a derivative versiom and thus essentially a show OC so Conway and Milgrom weren't entitled to royalties either.
>>152672939>>152672886Ok, thanks for the story time
Nuclear bump
Time to read the last issue. >>152675000It is surprising how petty they can be
>>152674069>Outside of maybe some hero vs villain balance issuesYes, Firestorm is really overpowered compared to his foes.Even with the hyena being such a strong bruiser, it feels unfair from his part.
>>152675000Jeez. No wonder owning your own IP is so attractive.
>>152671859Thanks anon, I loved him in blackes night.
>>152673223Oh, thanks, just finished it
>>152671859Why does this cover feel like a swipe of an old Doctor Solar cover?
>>152678257Does it?
Reminder that the whole accident was intentionally trying to create a us superhero and stein was in on it
>>152678604That seems impossible with how it was written here. Far too many moving parts with dependencies.
>>152671999That KRAK! looks like it could do some real damage
>>152671867>woweegay
>>152672140>Superman trolling people in their own comic coversHis fuckery knew no bounds back then
>>152678828Yes, we can even see his thoughts.Only Killer Frost could be said to be intentional
>>152678604I hate Johns.
>>152680248It was just for shock value
>>152673076I like the way folds and creases are drawn on the characters' shirts
Since this is still up, here's DC Comics Presents #17.
I do appreciate that the in-universe reason for the cancellation was that Ronnie just decided "Yeah, screw it I can't do this" and retired for a while.Anyway, next up: Firestorm joins the Justice League.
Justice League #179
>>152681532Huh, wonder what Superman thought Wonder Woman would be better suited for if he didn't know her brain problems yet.
>>152681845I have no idea what was going on with Wonder Woman circa 1980 because I'm not really into the character. Was she still in the kung fu secret agent phase?
>>152681721>The actual defeating her is only two panels longNot surprising since they already know her weakness, but a bit funny.
>>152682016That seems to be how a lot of older Superman stories are. It's not so much Superman vs. the villain as it is Superman vs. the gimmick and once he's overcome the gimmick then the villain is dispatched almost as n afterthought.
Justice League #180
In spite of the implication that Satin Satan was actually evil the whole time, she's never shown up again.Next time, Firestorm's stories will spend the next year or so as backups in the Flash and we'll get the first half of that run with Flash #289-296 which incudes encounters with the Hyena and a reworked version of the cancelled Firestorm #6 with the introduction of Typhoon.
>>152682405Thanks.
>>152682055Because of this, Doomsday was a big deal, he was designed to trade blows with superman.
>>152682405What are the main differences between the typhoons's versions?
>>152682838Typhoon in the cancelled version was a mobster while the Typhoon in the canon version is a scientist whose life repeatedly gets fucked over.
>>152683038Oh, thanks for the answer.
>>152671969>Coalition to Resist Atomic Powerlol
>>152683038Oh, was he connected to the others from the previous issues?
>>152672140I miss when Superman would cameo at the start of a run to boost sales rather than Batman.
>>152681588>>152681603Nice callback
>>152681628>World trade centerLel.>>152684018If it wasn't for you, I wouldn't have noticed it.
>>152681740>Anyway, next up: Firestorm joins the Justice LeagueIf it could have been a year earlier
Firestorm always seems like one of those characters that just kind of exists, wonder if there are any big Firestorm fans out there.
>>152681899>>152681913>Firestorm joining.I wonder how he will explain the professor
>>152671859Bruce Timm refused to use Firestorm in Justice League Unlimited because he thought Firestorm "looked like a fuckin fag" although you won't hear him say that (in public) today
>>152684859The fire hair would be really hard to animate.
>>152684495He has fans; he's getting a new series entirely because Lemire likes him. He's just always been kind of a C-lister. I've always been vaguely interested in the character because he showed up on Super Friends back when CN showed it and I thought he looked cool but I mostly have experience with the 2000s series more than Ronnie's stuff.I like the 2000s series and Jason but it's mostly ho hum until Stuart Moore takes over after the first year. It and the John Rogers run on Blue Beetle from around the same time are both really good and definitely made those characters a lot better than they otherwise would have been.
>>152684859Bruce Timm is a self inserting fag desu
>>152684859No, it happened both because the script they had had too many parts and wound up being unwieldy so it got reworked into something else even and even ignoring that Timm admitted he had problems making the look work in animation. The episode that was supposed to be about Firestorm eventually became "The Greatest Story Never Told."Also, McDuffie wanted Ronnie and Stein to be voiced by H. Jon Benjamin and Jonathan Katz.
>>152684975>Also, McDuffie wanted Ronnie and Stein to be voiced by H. Jon Benjamin and Jonathan KatzFor a minute I thought it was weird, than I remembered that Jason is younger than the animated series.>Too many moving parts.I think it is the reason for why he isn't that popular.
>>152684495I saw him in Justice League Action and I immediately thought he was such a cool idea for a character and had a really unique dynamic.Then I looked at what they were doing with him in the comics and got sad.
>>152682030I wonder how long until the doctor puts 2 + 2 together
>>152684495I feel like this thread has filled in the holes as to why that is, at least in part. The way it gets cut short and Conway just keeping it going through other books gives the impressions that the character is novel enough to persist but since the initial run is short and stilted it's not really definitive, so not many people are going to bitch if another writer comes along and does whatever with it. That kind of thing must cut both ways for writers since it allows for plenty of creative freedom to potentially create something great but there's no riding on the coattails of what was done before to help you get it off the ground.
>>152682089He looks really good in the top right panel
>>152685051They did a good job with him there. I remember liking how they handled Firestorm in Batman the Brave and the Bold as well, though it was more of an inversion with nerdy kid Jason Rusch as the primary knowing all the science stuff while coach/teacher Ronnie Raymond is the secondary and offers physical/tactical advice.
>>152685180He went into JLA in 1980 and his second series was from 1982-1990. I think a big problem is that Ostrander's run changed things a lot AND basically gave the character an ending. I'm sure there are people more familiar but AFAIK Ostrander's run is more about Firestorm as an entity mixed with Cold War politics (specifically nuclear proliferation) so it turns it from a superhero book about a jock and scientist into what amounts to the environmental stuff from Moore's Swamp Thing combined with the politics of Suicide Squad so it's now about this all powerful avatar of whatever rather than a character whose power is limited by how creative and smart the person in charge is. Kind of why Spectre has been a non-entity after Ostrander's run or Captain Atom in general. When the character has become a virtual god it's hard to do much with them.IIRC in the '90s Ronnie's repowered but without the merging aspect so it's trading one problem for another so you can say just rebooting it with a new character was kind of necessary to make the concept work by taking it back to basics. Also I think there's a split between people who think the Conway stuff was an enjoyable superhero vs. those who think Ostrander's run is better/more mature.
>>152685379>When the character has become a virtual god it's hard to do much with them.They had this problem since early, his early enemies are "Firestorm vampires" or they get to jump on him.
>>152671920I love this hairstyle on women. If anyone can tell me what it is, I'd appreciate it.
>>152685435It'd just feathered hair ala Farrah Fawcett.
>>152685435"Feathered" or perhaps more specifically "The Farrah Fawcett"
>>152685424Sure but that's basic superhero comics.
>>152671896Firestorm is lame. But I kind of like this art. The thing that bothers me the most is how white people are written in these books. In books with black or non-white characters, they try to build the scene and give more identity to the characters with speaking roles. In this scene, you have these white people playing in the snow. It's just nonsense.
>>152671867>First ever word is woweeDead on arrival. Imagine seeing that cover as a kid and being like "Oh wow a nuclear man? Firestorm sounds badass! EXPLOSIVE first issue?" and then you get "Wowee if the kids at school could only see me now!"
>>152671867What an intro, that's the most aggressive Line of Action I've seen in a while.
>>152687032Yes, but with Firestorm, it gets to the point of silliness.
Fire have Storm in it?
Has he ever encounter captain atom?
>>152689081Probably not, outside of crowds
>>152689081Yes, multiple times.
Starting the Flash backups with Flash #289.These first few stories are basically a reintroduction. Also there's some big or eventual big names doing art for these stories with George Perez and Jim Starlin doing pencils for the ones from today and Denys Cowan on most of the back half.
Since most of these backups are fairly short, it's easier posting two in one go.
Flash #290
>>152687069Retard lmao
Flash #291
>>152692038Oh, time to compare the backup with modern ones
Flash #292
>>152692088Weird, since it was mentioned that he started being a hero a year ago.
>>152692302Technically a year is still a few months.
>>152692323I think they are picking from where the solo ended, since the professor mentioned that he was drinking.
Flash #293Slightly longer backup as it's a proper team up between Firestorm and Flash.
>>152692378The colors are more vivid
>>152692418Partly just slightly better scans. These, the JLA and the DC Presents issues I just grabbed from RCO since I wasn't going to go downloading archives for only a few things.
Flash #294
Flash #295
>>152692076Considering he has Prof in his head, I wonder why he wasn't considered asking him if he should tell his waking self he is part of Firestorm.
Flash #296
That's it for this time. Next time will cover Flash #297-304 which will finally give some resolution to the Hyena plot as well as ending Firestorm's time as a backup feature.
I wonder how popular he was during the eighties, since he lasted 100 issues >>152692890Oh thanks.
>>152692273I wonder when he will start to remember
>>152692378These backups actually tell complete stories
>>152692388Oh, the atomic skull is pretty old
>>152692646>the typhoon is a storm of the soul.Oh, he was really looking to do this
>>152692871Lel.
Thanks again for the read.
>>152694173not that funny
>>152692890thank you
>>152671859>There's a new Firestorm coming out in April so screw it, let's read some old comics starting with Firestorm, the Nuclear Man #1-5.ty for the storytime
woah this thread is still alivethat's cool, I've always liked Firestorm
>>152672291nice type error, lol
>>152698323Haha yeah I like him too
>>152695226Did he really say that?
>>152692807thanks for your effort anon!
>>152693001back in the day almost every title could go for a long run: 37-50-100 issues.
Flash #297Today will finish the backups.
Flash #298
Flash #299
Flash #301There was no backup in #300 since it was an oversized anniversary issue.
Flash #302
Flash #303
Flash #304
>1977 - 1978Firestorm: The Nuclear Man
1982 - 1987>The Fury of Firestorm is a comic book series by DC Comics. Series continues in Firestorm: The Nuclear Man.
>1987 - 1990Firestorm: The Nuclear Man is a comic book series by DC Comics. Series continues from The Fury of Firestorm.
That finishes up the character's backup feature in Flash. Next time, Firestorm is back in his own series with Fury of Firestorm #1-4 featuring a new villain in Black Bison and the return of Killer Frost.
The Fury of Firestorm (#1-64)Firestorm, the Nuclear Man (#65-100)Firestorm the Nuclear Man [no comma] (#84-92)>Firestorm (#93-100)
>2004 - 2006Firestorm>2006 - 2007Firestorm: The Nuclear Man
>2011 - 2013The Fury of Firestorm: The Nuclear MenJason Rusch and Ronnie Raymond. These two high school students are worlds apart - and now they're drawn into a conspiracy of super-science that bonds them forever in a way they can't explain or control
>>152704295Yeah, that's too much.
>>152705072The New 52 series is shit because it's Simone and EVS and the entire premise of it is basically just "Jason's a liberal (like Gail) and Ronnie's a conservative (like EVS)... can they coexist!?" So like Quantum and Woody but really shitty. Supposedly it got better once Jurgens took over though.
I'll probably wind up missing tomorrow as stuff's come up so if so, this will wind up esuming Friday.
>>152703484Oh, more material to read
>>152703566>>152703579Oh, will the professor start to keep his memories?
>>152671859what's his power? isnt he similar to Capt Atom?
>>152706786Yeah but more loosey goosey.
>>152681546Killer Frost hates men? wtf lol
>>152706829Well yeah, she's a total ice queen.
>>152672025This page is givinge me some JoJo vibes
>>152706829Please understand, the professor didn't dick her down
Joe Keery would fucking nail this, live action or cartoon.
>>152672515It's always Didiot fault
>>152706829Her whole thing, at least the Crystal Frost version, is that she's a giant femcel that got sent over the edge when her oneitis rejected her on accident because he was too autistic to realize she wanted to fuck him.
>>152672803Enter
>>152673076>My DC cutoff point of Flashpoint is more reasonableSame
>>152704168The last bit of his original plans
>>152673223I like it so far
>>152704203>>152704215I don't know what I was expecting for the origins of the Hyena, but it certainly wasn't this.
>>152674207The more I know the more I hate Bendis
>>152678604Is Doomsday Clock still canon?
>>152681505>Superdickery again
>>152681841Who's the flying Lady?
>>152707325Zatanna in one of her old costumes I think
>>152707242Yes AFAIK>>152707325Zatanna
>>152682089Good cliffhanger
>>152676458
>>152687069Go be a retard somewhere else
>>152674207>done to him against his will by Dr. Manhattanwut
>>152707397Eh, it's decent.
>>152708294During Rebirth, Dr. Manhattan was collecting certain characters for reasons we never found out, including Doomsday, Tim Drake, and Jor-El, he was the reason he was even alive in the present day, he just plucked him out from right before Krypton was destroyed.It was probably meant to tie into Doomsday Clock, but like I said, we never found out why, probably cause Johns was taking too long and Bendis decided to just do his own bullshit.
