You now remember Doomsday Clock.
>>152676443Half of it was an interracial plot
That whole thing, and The Three Jokers, was just Johns jerking himself off.
>>152676507Three jokers was so pointless.
>>152676507>>152676673Johns attempting to literally make three Jokers and bringing in a second Batman biological child from the future (instead of just bringing in Earth Two Helena) and making the whole 2022 JSA run about her at the expense of basically everybody else make it seem like Johns was desperately attempting to leave his mark on Batman.I bet he was cursing under his breath for having never written a mainline Batman run while writing that shit lmao.
>>152676507In the end, Johns lost.
>>152676507THREE? What're you breeding them?
>>152676443>>152676756you've got to admit, leaving a villain named Nostalgia behind as you double-bird out of the DC offices in the 2020s has a certain power to it
this thread reeks of tom king and brevoort samefagging himself
>>152676507Johns trying to write prestige "smart" comics is the funniest shit.
>>152676692>leave his mark on BatmanWhy are so many writers obsessed with "leaving a mark"? Who gives a fuck, honestly.
>>152676443It's literally:>put a chick in it and make it lame and gay
>>152676692>>152676507But why would Johns care about influencing Batman when he was also already responsible for Flashpoint? He created fucked up and brutal Thomas Wayne Batman, even if King was the writer who made him inescapable for a while.
>>152677031It's not so much putting his mark on Batman, it's that Johns really wants to write a seminal, important story like the Killing Joke or Watchmen. The problem is that he's a stupid meathead unlike Alan Moore.
>>152676448Explain?
>>152677102He saw the new Rorschach was black and assumed he was fucking all the white women showing up in the book because all he does is watch porn of that.
>>152676877Imagine having worked decades in an industry and watching everything you've ever made fade into nothing before your eyes? Knowing that because you dedicated yourself to being a whore for an IP company working with characters that were already established before you were born, nothing you wrote would even be canon for more than a few years at a time and none of your years of work would ever be remembered or even matter. If you had created your own comics you would have left behind stories that could have endured beyond your lifespan, but instead you worked for DC and everything you did was written on water. You get older, and ask yourself "what have I done with my life?" and thats the answer you see before you.Writers get desperate to leave their mark on these established characters because without it there is no validation. The people who made these characters in the first place will be remembered by fans and history. The hundreds of writers who have written them in the middle as an interchangeable carousel of staff? Not so much.
>>152676802I always have the feeling that all those Alan Moore and Watchmen threads are made by Tom King and Geoff Johns. They wanted to get all the praise being the new/“better than“ Moore, but get called out and so make Moore hate posts.
>>152676800There are several parts were you are like “That idea is promsing and interesting“.But than it goes nowhere or goes for the shittiest conclusion.Kinda like the Button got readers hyped up, than Doomsday Clock was published and readers where “What?“. Than “Ok there are points that can result into something good“ but than Readers felt like betrayed but the dumb stuff.
>>152676877Leaving your mark is either having a highly successful run that impacts the character's personality/motives/etc moving forward or creating a highly successful villain/hero/supporting cast member that gets used for years after you're done or in other media. Miller's Daredevil is an example of the former, and there are many examples of the latter but one of the more successful recent attempts is Court of Owls.Johns has definitely left his mark on GL, JSA, and Flash (among others like Hawkman) comics wise, but out of comics? GL has been poisoned by the movie and is about to be poisoned twice by that show about Kyle and King's shitshow. JSA are too obscure and while Stargirl was good, Black Adam poisoned the well. CW Flash was successful but just kinda threw random shit together and didn't follow most comics well beyond having established characters exist, and then the Flash movie again ruined the well. And in general Johns was spoiled by having been CCO and basically ramming a bunch of his OCs into other media for royalties. Superman and Batman are THE characters to try to leave your mark on because they get so many adaptations there's high likelihood one of your OCs or plots will get adapted, which is mainly what Johns cares about.
>>152676692Him creating a possible future Helena was kind of diluted by King having done it like 2 years prior.
>>152676443I don't even know who this is, then again I think I speed-read the issues after a while.
>152677129What
>>152678218Pretty sure OP’s pic is the only page she’s on, and it’s the very last page of the whole thing. She only appears in three issues total, one issue of DDC, The Golden Age oneshot, and one issue of Flashpoint Beyond.
>>152676800And then DC raised up and Johns vanity project line at Image failed. Johns lost hard.
bump
>>152676443I remember how the Legion of Super-Heroes were apparently supposed to be an important element in it, but whatever plans were there got cut off by the Bendis thing. Lame.
>>152679477It's really funny that Didio allowed Bendis to rape everyone and everything with impunity, even the "veteran superstars"
>>152679513>Bendis is Coming... They were really banking on this guy, and I do not comprehend why.
>>152676443I love how HBO managed to >Write the scripts got their own Watchmen sequel series>hire the cast and crew>Film 6 episodes>Complete all post production and CG effects work>Air all episodes on a weekly basis>Finish the project 100%BEFORE Johns could fully publish this 12 issue series. and both began at the same time.
>>152679552Name recognition. No one working in comics cares about quality, only generating hyper for speculators. Speculators don't care about quality, only "important" issues to buy in bulk today so they can sell them for an inflated profit years down the line. Comic book shops ordering the latest issues don't care about quality, their job is to provide comics to their customers not to judge them for it. So you have to get here, 3 levels down, before you MAYBE run into someone who gives a shit whether the comic is actually well written or fun to read. And a not insignificant number of people in this tier will read anything no matter how bad it is.
>>152679680Because HBO had more people working on it.
>>152677058It's still crazy to me how a stupid teahead like Moore wrote circles around everyone else.
>>152680909In a land of 100s, the 115 is king.
>>152677391I make Moore hate posts and I say King and Johns are hacks and nowhere at Moore's level
>>152677031A better answer would be why do people think Johns would want to write a Batman ongoing? Johns pretty much has made it clear in just about every book he writes featuring Bruce, that he fucking hates Batman and has held a serious hate boner for the character.
>>152681218He seems to only respect Nightwing out of the Bat-folks, while making Tim into some mini-Bruce with a barely hidden homolust for Kon and Jason into a weird Robin-cosplaying pissbaby who was "always wanting to be better than the Titans".
>>152676443not fondly
>>152679680The DC Watchmen actually had a lot of creative issues behind the scenes as Liedoff came in and made them throw out a huge chunk of the INO crap the previous wrote in favor of turning it into a BLM screed/Tulsa Race Riot propoganda, pissing off the suits so badly they forced him to have to change the FBI agent into Silk Spectre, create the Adrian Veidt subplot, and make Night's husband be Dr Manhattan/the Klan's leadership being the family behind the super hero ban to create SOME tenuous connection to the original mini, instead of it being 100% black supremacist crap. Meanwhile, Johns explicitly rewrote Doomsday Clock to try and cool down the left wing extremist elements within the industry, going so far as to explicitly state that Veidt was a monster and Manhattan the true villain of Watchmen because he murdered Rorschach.
>>152681020Hi Tom. You CIA cover ups dont work on me!
>>152676877You can make money of that. Thats kinda how Moore got big.
>>152681245I've read the John's TT and Tim/Kon weren't anywhere near as gay as I expected after reading a lot of fan posts. In fact they weren't really gay at all, Tim just took his death hard. Hell it even felt like he made Tim have a minicrush on starfire for some reasonNow Jason was truly a deranged lunatic and it was hilarious
>>152681300I genuinely don't understand how or why Lindelof still gets work. Everything he has ever written has been a dumpster fire.
>>152678218>>152678677There were alot of loose end and things that never went somewhere. Doomsday Clock was envisioned as a starting point for different series or plots.
>>152681500That's pretty much what Johns did with things like his Titans and the Lost Children, setting things up that didn't go anywhere or thinking other writers would be interested but they weren't.
>>152681300How do you know that stuff? I can believe that HBO had this trouble. But i am curious if it is backed by gossip.
>>152681510Right, that happened. It was kinda weird. It didnt felt like a starting point, more like a Stargirl comic with several sidekicks he wanted to place into the JSA fluff. Maybe hoping others would use them.But i can see why you can think that it was planned to start something.
>>152681380That wasn't even Moore's project. Bolland hired Moore to write a Batman comic he could draw.
>>152680909If you had a massive library of old discontinued books to plagiarize, you could, too.
>>152681819Corky wasn't forgotten, he grew up and then died in the Time Masters mini-series.I'm glad Johns is out. He's the worst hack of all time.
>>152678707I'm sure he's crying into his gold-plated cereal that he eats out of a fresh teenage hooker's ass every day in one of his many million dollar homes as we speak
>>152681954Everyone has had that for the last few decades and comic book writing is worse than ever.
>>152682037>has had>has not been doingDo you see it now?
>>152682067They have. Tom King plagiarized True Grit not long ago and it was awful.
>>152681892Still Swamp Thing, Miracleman, Superman, Supreme shows that was his thing. Even if he was hired or choosen by him.
>>152678707Did it fail? He still publishes Geiger, Redcoat and HydeStreet.
>>152681500>not naked shota manhattanCowards
>>152682318Thats his megaform.
>>152681892To be more exact; after the success of Camelot 3000, Bolland was told that DC would greenlight any project he wanted. Bolland replied that he wanted to do a Batman vs Joker graphic novel and that he wanted to work with Alan Moore. Moore only did so if he had control over the story, which is where he came up with the idea to revisit Joker's origin. And Babs being shot was supposed to be left ambiguous until Len Wein asked Moore to permanently cripple her when Moore got cold feet over Babs being shot.
>>152679477Has anything that bendis did in DC stuck? Because it looks like they paid him half a million dollars to destroy the good will that rebirth built up and then bury everything he did. I still don’t understand how Naomi got a live action show, did anyone care about the comic?
>>152682220He was hired for all of those. They hired him because they liked how he wrote. >Len Wein hired him for Swamp Thing because sales were low under Pasko.>Dez Skinn hired him for Marvelman because all his first choices rejected him (though Moore was already interested in the character before; this may be because Moore just needed an flying brick character for his ideas).>Julius Schwartz and Gibbons hired him for Superman because Schwartz liked Swamp Thing and Gibbons liked working with him.>Rob Liefeld hired him for Supreme because he was a big name.Your best example would have been Watchmen, since he intended to wreck the Charlton characters until DC said no. But really, it's not so much about leaving a mark, it's about writing a great story. Status quo doesn't really allow for that.
>>152682451the most significant thing people care about is aging up Jon which pretty much can never be undone because the next guy made him gay...erm "bi"
>>152682451Unironically the only part of Bendis' reign at DC that anyone remembers is BENDIS IS COMINGAnd aging up Jon I guess.
>>152682503And Fraction spoiling Leviathan in Jimmy Olsen though no one realized it at the time.
>>152676443I didn't even bother collecting the last issue.
>>152682962>LeviathanOh yeah, that happened
>>152677102Literally half the issues was just the Mime blacking his white gf and the comic rubbing it in your face, it had no relevance to the plot whatsoever
>>152677031Along with what the other anon said about making a landmark comic, there's also the likelihood Johns knew Watchmen and Batman media were in the pipeline, not like you need an oracle for that with WB but still, and wanted to fix it so something of his would get considered should sequels be discussed, so basically royalty writing shenanigans.A lot of writers since the 00s have been gunning for that sort of thing to coast through their career.
>>152682449>gets asked to do Watchmen>gets asked to do Joker>gets asked to do Supreme>gets asked by Jim Lee to do ABC conics lineSo Moore is like Dr. Manhattan. Everything great isnt done by his motivation but he was always hired. Maybe LoEG is the only thing but i think it was more a fuck you to DC and using his Watchmen prequel ideas.
>>152681458I think his stuff is watched and beloved by some (somehow?). So they still give him projects. Kinda weird but people seem to like his bland mystery boxes with good cinematic look that they will overlook the bad.
>>152682962No one remembers Leviathan
>>152682460Weird. I never thought about it.And i would count Watchmen too. DC asked him to do Charlton comic. Than asked him to repurpose the plots he proposed for a different comic.
>>152683143Alan Grant got Moore a job at 2000 AD because he liked how he wrote as well.
>>152679680Gary Frank is slow and Johns didn’t even start scripting for a few months because he was working on the Wonder Woman movie and was sad about the election.
I remember Brightest Day better than I do Doomsday Clock.
>>152677866>GL has been poisoned by the movieNot even. You can enjoy the comics without the movie creeping in.
>>152684237Johns doesn’t care about comics anymore tho, he just cares about his works being adapted.
>>152684520he wanted to get invited to Epstein Island
>>152684200That's because Brightest Day was at least readable
>>152684200You know I get why they don't do more weeklies as it's hard on artists to deliver on time and hard for writers and editors to communicate effectively each issue , but I am really surprised that DC didn't do more biweekly series after Brightest Day. Still hard on artists obviously but even just a 24 issue like Brightest Day can have 4 artists do 6 issues each.
>>152681020Are you shoot retarded?
>>152681819Too much cannon fodder
>>152685792I'm waiting for the day that some writer kills Stargirl unceremoniously like how Johns killed Firebrand who was based on Roy Thomas' wife.
>>152685465I guess after 52 and then Brightest Day, they probably felt it wasn't worth the effort.
>>152685953They did numerous weeklies after 52>Wednesday Comics>Countdown>Trinity>Batman Eternal>Earth 2 World's End>Future's End>Batman and Robin Eternal
>>152685961Oh yeah, I forgot about those...and also confused 52 and Countdown as being one in the same.
>>152685953Yeah, 52 was a piece of shit.
Doomsday Clock? Moar like Doomsday Cock, amirite?
>>152686011More like Doomsdelay Clock considering how long it took to come out
>>152681342>>152685742Sorry Alan, but you can be criticized because being a good writer (at your prime) doesn't stop you from being an arrogant and hypocritical doofus. Adults enjoying superhero entertainment are no more infantile than adults relying on political insight of a superhero writer.
>>15268599052 had issues (Isis being easily killed after Black Adam hyped her up as more powerful than him) but it was good shit.
>>152676443>the only two good characters in the entire thing were ripoff characters of Punch and JeweleeGeoff...
>Alan Moore shit on Blackest Night and called Geoff Johns a raccoon going through his trash.>Johns responds by writing even more stories aping off Alan.>Even has a comic panel with a raccoon in one.How petty.
>>152686604Moore cursed him and that's why Johns multimedia career died btw
>>152682025You have issues.
>>152685465Thats why you got filler artists and artists doing 6 issue stories. You can plan it better to release ot monthly.
>>152686604Moore is the same as Johns though. Everything he's ever made is based heavily on the works of others
>>152676507Johns entire career after new 52 was him huffing his own farts and jerking himself off
>>152681819It was reminiscent of a bunch of the One Year Later Titans he made that were Justice Leaguer knockoffs for the most part, and who were either forgotten or killed except lucky ones like Miss Martian.
>>152685946>The Whitmore family all dies to allow for the glorious return of Skyman
>>152687455Thats kinda the problem. Moore heavily uses other peoples stuff or ideas. But than you get something like V for Vendetta that is so different from his inspirations or so heavily mixed that it really is a thing of its own.And i think Moore said himself that there is so much stuff written and produced over the last centuries that you barely can make 100% pure new stuff.
>>152687455>Moore is the same as Johns though.If you truly believe this, you don't understand anything.
>>152676443it is a filter book.Most of the complains are:>not muh watchmen from the watchemen series from that old british man from the 80s
>>152685961JLI generation lost was also weekly.
>>152689181You're filtered by the English language.
Johns being confirmed to be working on Marvel's Spider-Man/Superman crossover makes me wonder if Cebulski is trying to get him to return to Marvel again
>>152676443Never read it.
>>152687455>>152688640Most writers use other people's ideas, especially in comics.Moore has a problem with Johns (and DC in general) because Johns is using Moore's name directly to sell his comics.
>>152689764I dont think that they think that farn head.
>>152691569I don't recall them using Alan Moore's name to promote Blackest Night. Johns went digging through some old GL issues from the 80s, noticed that Moore set up some stuff that no writer ever followed up on, decided to do that himself in the 00s, and Moore was bitchy because he believed the time to follow up on this should have been in the 80s or early 90s, not decades later.
>>152691705>Moore was just mad that he never got to follow up on Blackest Night.You snooze, you lose.
>>152691712He didn't have strong feelings about any of this stuff. He saw it as digging through his trash because no one at the time cared enough about it to follow up on it. "You're so lacking in ideas that you have to follow up on some throw-away stories I wrote decades ago."
>>152691705And no one (besides me) cares that Johns' Blackest Night was just a rip-off of an Annual theme called Ghosts.
>>152682962>it was manhunterOK, but there's like fucking ten of them, Jimmy.
>>152685946Anon, Roy himself 'killed' Firebrand when he said she doesn't survive past WW2 in Infinity Inc.
>>152688558This would be based as fuck.Add on the complete destruction of Opal City and gruesome death of the Mist and her child and it's pure bliss.
>>152689205A weekly disappointment. After announcing Giffen as writer, he's gone after three issues and we get fucking Winnick being a boring hack for the rest of it.
>>152683019ThisI thought Johns was a great capeshit writer when he was just writing capeshit for the sake of it. JSA, Hawkman, Flash, Green Lantern, even his brief run on Avengers is fun. Then when the MCU hit suddenly WB wants to go all in on capeshits movie sand Johns sees his chance. Johns does shit like Shazam, Batman Earth One, pushing Stargirl and yeah recently creating a fucking army of IP seeds like this >>152681819 hoping for a participation check. Then he writes his Alan Moore grudgefic with Doomsday Clock and Three Jokers. He made his play with the Justice League movie and Stargirl series while still insisting DC Comics reserve certain characters for him 'until he comes back' which burned his bridges and so he rewrote whatever DC pitches he could for his own line hoping to get Mark Millar option money to keep up with his hairplugs.
>>152676443>Watchmen Babies in "V for Vacation" vibes
>>152676443why is that hot little brown slut dressed like a perfume bottle anyway
>>152693653Excuse me? What you're seeing is actual creativity.
>>152694319there's nothing creative in that picture
>>152681819>Johns attempting to pitch an Infinity Inc spinoff wherein Obsidian, Jade, and Shade find various JSA children and sidekicks>coincidentally around the same time Johns created a dozen JSA sidekicks, a red Jade to be green Jade’s frenemy/rival, and a gay son of one of Alan’s villains to be a frenemy/rival to Obsidian, the gay son of another one of Alan’s villainsBRAVO JOHNS
>>152694425>Green jade.Wouldn't this be a ruby?>and a gay son of one of Alan’s villains to be a frenemy/rival to Obsidian, the gay son of another one of Alan’s villainsWho?
>>152694487Yes, her name is Ruby despite that not being a Russian name, further solidifying how much of a hack Johns is>Who?Harlequin’s Son. Technically Thomas and Ordway created the character 40 years ago but never actually put him on page because they thought 3 GL children would be too many and preferred the thought of twins. But considering Johns gave him a civilian name, changed the villain name (he was just Harlequin 40 years ago, not Harlequin’s Son), and actually put him on paper I wouldn’t be surprised if Thomas and Ordway wouldn’t get anything if he actually appeared anywhere.
>>152676443no i don't
>>152694425>a gay son of one of Alan’s villains to be a frenemy/rival to Obsidian, the gay son of another one of Alan’s villainsTo be frank I wouldn't be surprised if he was gonna be amalgamed with Marcie Cooper Harlequin and made into a love interest considering how Robinson and Johns never gave a fuck about Molly and Alan was killed years prior to Stargirl's first episode lmao.
>>152677424This list will always be retarded, Before Watchmen is ass. Yes, even the Cooke books.
>>152694584Thanks for the explanation.>Harlequin’s SonOh, I thought he created 2 gay sons of different villains.
>>152687455The hell do you mean? He might write for existing characters but he basically redefines a lot of them to the point his work becomes the defacto version because everyone loves it. Johns just straight up writes fanfiction.
>>152695071Pretty much all big two work is fanfiction though.Damian is literally Morrison's self insert and his entire Bruce/Talia story was him crying about his mom divorcing his dad.
>>152695112I mean it's bad fanfiction in the sense that it doesn't use the characters as a jumping board for new stories, it's just a shittier version of stories that have already been told with the characters by better writers.
>>152687302I'm Geoff Johns, bitch
>>152695140You suck at writing the Avengers, and only are forgotten because the guy immediately after you was worse.
>>152695071League of Extraordinary Gentlement is a fanfic, Lost Girls is a fanfic. Plenty of dead authors would have nothing good to say about what Moore did with their works.
>>152691727>>152691712>>152691705What Moore idea did Blackest Night follow up on again?
>>152695327Oh wah wah, this false equivalence bullshit will never not be retarded.
>>152695346https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Tales_of_the_Green_Lantern_Corps_Annual_Vol_1_2#Synopsis_for_%22Tygers%22
>>152676797Gordon you cant breed males, he's totally splitting his cells apart like some microbe
>>152695112>80s JSA consisted of "my favorite heroes during WW2" and "my favorite heroes' children OC donut steel"
>>152695155crying into my cereal
They're not going to follow through with this, are they? Especially with the current crossover that's already happening.
>>152695988Johns has almost never delivered on anything he's teased
>>152695988>Green Behemothah yes, JLA/Savage Dragon: The Fuckening
>>152676443Truly a sign of the times
>>152676673I'm autistically butt blasted about it because as a kid I always wished there was a way to have Mark Hamil Joker, The Batman Joker, and Heath Ledger Joker in the same continuity but knew there would never be a way you could have THREE JOKERS in ONE STORY. Then they do it and it's just some stupid crap
>>152677306Imagine having a regular job. "I'm gonna start putting tartar sauce on the Big Macs! I gotta leave my mark on it!"
>>152695988No, why would they? Johns just like throwing shit out there to make braindead readers clap their hands.
>>152694753Because you are a purist and cant see things without an -ism or idiologicallly lens. It is fine that you think and feel this way.
>>152692953He really went for Alan Moore stuff to latch onto. Was Three Jokers a Killing Joke sequel or its own thing. Never read it. And what was it about? It seem that it was a whimsical story, because it feels like forgotten. Even no hate threads remembering that it happened.
>>152695391I think >>152695327 has a point. Moore has a tendency to use existing characters. I dont know his whole backlog, but his only real unique own characters he wrote are from his 2000AD times. Everything else is just hired work to do others creative work and after that just his versions of existing characters.
>>152695988There are some rumors that another DC/Marvel crossover is planned. But i guess he took it too serious. If it doesnt happen, than everyone will forgot he wrote that. If it happens than he will post it that he knew. Kinda like all prophecies work.
>>152698225At least they made minifigures for the DC tabletop. So it was supposed to be big?
>>152676443cause you reminded us you no good S-O-B
>everyone gets their memories of the previous continuities >this has never gone anywhere... 'Kay.
>>152698292Have no fear, we have Crises for years!
>>152698302>Absolute CrisisI miss when capeshit was about vigilantes fighting crime.
>>152698991Thats something that is happening in most fictional stuff. You just cant catch a criminal anymore, they need to be the current kingpin of crime or terrorists in your county.Maybe thats why whodonit and similar crime series are still popular with older generations? They mostly are not the super baddie but just a crime that need to be solved.
Ok, it was menti9med now! >>152698044
>>152676443I'd rather remember how to manually breath.
>>152698225Johns wanted its message to ultimately be about how Barbara is a good girl for moving on from the Joker shooting her, while Jason is the bad way to grieve and he's a pathetic murdering simp who lacks self-respect to where rather than move on himself, he'd bet it all on her returning his feelings to do so. That was pretty much his intent with those two.
>>152699529True crime still is really popular.
>>152698225It was deliberately trying to evoke the Killing Joke and in his interpretation, failed comedian Joker was actually an abusive husband and those good old boy Gotham cops paid to have his wife move to Alaska and cooked up a phony story about her dying instead of just beating the shit out of him. No one cares about it because DC said it isn't canon, it's a story that doesn't count.
>>152681819Honestly, I'm fine with The Boom, Salem the Witch Girl, and Secret.They did Cherry Bomb dirty with that shitty outfit though.
>>152698240There is no point, as I said it's a false equivalence because his criticism was never about using someone else's characters. It's such a surface level midwit take that misses the point entirely.
>>152698189I'm not a purist, they're just complete trash even as standalone stories even though by their very nature they cannot be treated as standalone since they require some familiarity with the source material to make sense. Entirely unmemorable at best, they were immediately forgotten by the public at large for that very reason shortly after release because they were always cheap, creatively soulless cashgrabs.
>>152684200Brightest Day was so hype. I was excited for the status quo it created, dnd then all its work was undone with 52.
>>152700851Well Snyder's Swamp Thing did more or less pick up from where Brightest Day left him.
>>152676443the only thing that could have redeemed this is if mid issue Doomsday randomly showed up saying stuff like "Yes? What about my clock?" or "Why are you people so obsessed by my timepiece?" then at least you would know it was meant to be funny papers
>>152696811Brown wagies do be like that tho.
>>152699924Sounds not that bad on paper. But thats probably a little sideplot and the three joker plot was too convoluted?
>>152700243So a weird origin story that was inspired by the movie.
>>152701030And it was the awful hackjob you'd expect.
>>152701200D-Day rollin up decked like Flava and cold lampin on niggas would be some epic shit.
>>152700663Moore criticised them for not coming up with new stuff. Him using book characters and making sequel like stories is similar. I agree with you that he gives them a new spin and new plots. But still it is a good point that you cant neglect.
>>152700713They are rather good comics, because of varying creative teams they vary in quality. I agree that they are not that memorable and DC milking the IP.
>>152695988I'd be more curious to see an Earth-1985 series, where Crisis never happened.
>>152701831>Moore criticised them for not coming up with new stuffYou can use established characters and write new stories with them, which is what he did.>Him using book characters and making sequel like stories is similarIt's not and as I said is a surface level midwit take because they are not the same thing. There is a huge realm of difference between using established characters to write new stories and rehashing stories that were written with those characters. Swamp Thing is a perfect example, he created mythos for the character wholesale and completely redefined him. Subsequent runs of Swamp Thing were far less transformative and instead used his run as a basis. Minutemen is also trash because it doesn't do anything new with the characters, it's an entirely pointless prequel basically reaffirming things we already knew about them.
>>152701980The Linearverse from Generations Forged is way more interesting than another rehash.
>>152701969>They are rather good comicsThey are mediocrity defined, their very inception is one tainted by publisher mandate and it's easily some of the worst work of those involved. I mean for Christ's sake, even the pages you're posting are just a worse, more drawn out version of the confrontation between the Comedian and Hooded Justice in the original.
>>152698225It's Johns attempt at a canonical sequel to Killing Joke as both a middle finger to Moore and an attempt to create an evergreen trade product. Instead of expansion to the original story? It just petulantly says 'nah...it was really THIS!' (the same way he messed with the ending of COIE in IC). It also expects readers to believe that a character we've been told is the world's greatest detective, along with law enforcement, and Arkham's medical staff never noticed that this terrorist criminal was three different men all along. Also? John's contempt for Batman is pretty obvious.
>>152702181>It also expects readers to believe that a character we've been told is the world's greatest detective, along with law enforcement, and Arkham's medical staff never noticed that this terrorist criminal was three different men all along.The plot twist at the end is that he knew who all of them were all along. It's still dumb.
>>152702028>"In this universe . . . People live longer and age slower!"Nah that was fucking cringe bro
PLEASE DON'T STOPIT'S LONELY AT THE TOPTHESE LONELY DAYSWILL THEY EVER STOPTHIS DOOMSDAY CLOCKTICKIN' IN MY HEART
What's the best Johns comic?
>>152702643Your post is cringe retardation, fag.
>>152704499probably his awful Avengers run, because it's the purest form of what he did for most of his career, but you don't have to read a million issues to get the story
>>152704499Secret Origin probably, the best modern comic origin Superman's had.
>>152704579People being dicks to each other, doing a weird near-miss with the name of Scott Lang's ex-wife to the point I wonder if he talked to Michelinie about his plans a while ago and forgot the details, and lots of dead people?
>>152704499JSA
>>152704499Either Green Lantern or JSA.
>>152681411Its gay if you were a fan of either character before Johns got his hands on them. Tim goes from being a trio with Bart and Kon where they're great friends but also clearly find each other pretty annoying to being low rent super/bats with Kon without any build up or explanation. Tim and Kon are suddenly bffs while Bart gets left out in the cold. It doesn't help that Johns Kon is an angsty edgelord. Pre Johns Kon is not attacking Spoiler because he thinks she's replaced Tim and Dixon Tim wasn't trying to clone Kon back to life.
>>152701984Nta, but are you trying to say every writer should completely reinvent a character every time they write for them?
>>152706118NTA, but specific characters should only have one specific writer.
>>152706118You don't have to reinvent, just don't completely rehash another writer's shit.
>>152706301Okay and explain how you're supposed to tell "new" stories with say Superman without drawing on any of his prior stories or retconning any of his history? What? Should the next Superman story be about him playing in a tennis game?
>>152706301Bah, some popular well-liked writers mostly pull from what they liked or retcon stories they didn't like.
>>152706419you say that as though they didn't tell a fairly novel superman story not even a decade ago. There's always new scenarios you can put these characters in
>>152706444Yeah except Superman's already been a father and there was nothing new about that.
>>152706419Use the character as a springboard, introduce new characters for him to play off of. There's plenty of shit you can do without needing to reheat the same stale bullshit. Capeshit has been utterly stagnant for years because they keep hiring hacks that either make wokeslop or recycle what came before. That's not to say something "new" is inherently better, most of the "new" shit they try to introduce is completely surface level and gimmicky instead of being done out of a desire to tell a particular story.
>>152706455So, like what Johns did in Green Lantern? The same comic that prompted Moore's temper tantrum?
>>152706419>>152706444JMS told a new story and everybody hated it because it was just Superman looking at America and going "blech" instead of punching aliens and banging Lois Anal
>>152676507Three jokers was peak though.
>>152706471>surface level and gimmickyNah, rainbow lanterns suck shit and death is not an emotion.
>>152706452would love to see whatever run you think the Tomasi run is rehashing. If the general idea of being a father is the only criteria then there is nothing new under the sun for anything
>>152706478That's the other thing. The fanbase has preexisting expectations of characters and betraying those expectations risks alienating audiences. Actually, status wuo changes happen all the time. They just piss people off when they do. Remember Whor? Captain Hydra? Electric Superman?>>152706486You're gonna have to define what you mean by "gimmick" other than "something I don't like."
>>152706514Is there a single thing about Tomasi's run that's noteworthy outside of Superman being a dad?
>>152706529>here's a metric fuck ton of flashy filler characters that will barely show up after this!>also we're killing off a ton of characters and bringing back dead ones as zombies!It was very much a gimmick event, Johns' entire writing style is dumping a bunch of action figures into a sandbox and mashing them together.
>>152706538Depends on what you mean by noteworthy. The whole setup was different from his usual status quo, but the general meat of it was just solid capeshit from that angle
>>152706579So, he used prexisting characters as a springboard and introduced new characters for them to play off of. But, I guess it doesn't count cause you don't like it.>>152706586That's kind of my point. I don't really see what was so novel about Tomasi's Superman. I liked it, but it doesn't really explore new territory for the character.
>>152706650>But, I guess it doesn't count cause you don't like it.Well yeah, the prerequisite here is that the writing needs to be good and doesn't rely on memberberry shit, which everything with the Black Lanterns absolutely was.
>>152706681No it fucking isn't. You're trying to defend Morrison's take that Blackest Night's a rehash. Don't move the goalposts just cause you don't have an argument.
>>152706733>No it fucking isn'tIt absolutely was, having a cavalcade of characters presented so you could soiface over them was peak event slop.
>>152706479One, singular pity (You), sir.
>>152706767You're fucking retarded. I'm not having a debate over whether you should like Blackest Night. It's bad enough that I'm having one over semantics like what counts as a "new story".
>>152706733You mean Moore's take?I recall Morrison stepping in behind the scenes to help a lot of Johns' janky le 'world building', like actually fleshing out and differentiating the Skittles and how they should work.
>>152706811Why? The art is fantastic and the storyline fun and seldom referential due to all of the weird eras of batman besides the other jokers die in the end.
>>152676443Thanks for the reminder! :D
>>152706882>The art is fantasticEh, not really. Fabok and Frank have a similar problem. Their art is clean, proportional, anatomically sound, compositionally adequate, but boring. You compare them to Bolland and Gibbons, and they're just not as good.
>>152706840>like actually fleshing out and differentiating the Skittles and how they should work.This explains how they got homogeneous so fast.
>>152677031Johns wanted to be the one to write a sequel to Watchmen and The Killing Joke. It was to fuel his ego.
>>152707807I'm not saying a lot of his ideas got used well. It is Johns in the driver's seat, after all.
Who will write the next Watchmen sequel?
>>152708441Tom King
>>152676443What did I ever do to you, anon
>>152708560He already did that with a Rorschach miniseries.>>152708441How about Dan Slott?
