Do comic readers not like fight sequences in their comics to go too long because they're so badly drawn?
>>152748109I don't know man, I like this fight, that comic, and specifically that artist
>>152748109Why are Americans unable to draw action?
Oh one of those threads, even both filenames...
>>152748109If "comic readers" have a problem with fights scenes it's simply that comics have a ridiculously low amount of pages to work with (22). That's barely enough for one good fight if you include minimal setup and aftermath for it.
>>152748257I like Ditko's art and sometimes storytelling, but the fights in Amazing Spider-Man are kind of awful. >>152748434It seems like they prioritized page/panel economy, and left the action up to the imagination. The problem is what is shown doesn't leave much room for imagination. And because no killing was allowed, most of the fights are punches, sometimes kicks or throws.>>152748606What's wrong with the filename? I got it from Google Images.>>152748692I picked the OP image because about half of the comic pages in that issue show fighting.
>>152748692European duck comics have far better flow between panels.
>>152748871>I got it from Google Images.This filename>>152748434 comes from Reddit.
>>152748937Nta but google images keep the filenames from reddit
>>152748917Something was lost from the early days of cartooning. The way Jack Cole and Will Eisner and Carl Barks drew action and fights should have been the springboard for all the artists that followed to work from. Ditko is good, but he's honestly better at weird superpowers instead of fistfights.
>>152748109Kill yourself
>>152748109>Muhnga piss off.
>>152748434You call that action?
>>152748434did you post the wrong pic that's not even action it's just Sakura instantly jobbing there are many many better examples you could of used
>>152749370What is wrong with women jobbing in seconds?
>>152748434This nigga doesn't even know how to draw people running
>>152748109Comic action scenes are fine, Manga as old as your pic in the OP had some pretty terrible shit in it too, til they learned that local incels would slave finishing pages for noodles.
>>152749524>Blue guy hit grey guy for no reason.>Spider-Man suddenly went around grey guy.The flow of the scene is really messed up.
>>152749424>>152749339Naruto is trash but it's better than 99.9% of cape comics
not all comic action is poorly drawn
>>152749524It shouldn't be fine, it should be great. That page is awful.
>>152748109Both things kind of feed each other.Westerners in general see fights as nuisance so they aren't focused on.Western manga readers don't give a shit about actual fighting choreograpy and outright consider them filler.Heck, even within manga it happens. People simply prefer chains of causalities rather than actual brawls which is why modern shonen fights, mostly, suck.
>>152750007I'm sorry it wasn't 20 panels of every stupid movement.
>>152748434Really funny example here but I figured it was the same reason fight scenes aren't as good in western live action movies, less extensive and diverse history of bullshit martial arts compared to Asia. I mean you got boxing and wrestling, sword fighting stuff, but it's not really the same cultural heritage and interest compared to China and Japan. Also the figured the fewer pages per month limited the time for action compared to a weekly release.
>>152748434evidently japs can't either
>>152748434This and the other Naruto pages aren't very good, but it's sad how much better they are than the comic pages. If we keep denying facts, we'll never progress. I want comics to be good.
>>152748109This example isn't a fight right? It's just Scorpion punching and throwing a rock. I really wouldn't call this a fight.
>>152748871>but the fights in Amazing Spider-Man are kind of awful.relative to the time I think it's solid.I think Ditko's appeal for what he pioneered i that he really used environments for his characters in a way few were at the time. rubble is being tossed around, characters getting knocked into walls, jumping on parts of the city like poles and wires and climbing walls. It may not be as kinetic as manga but it has it's place in history
The immediate answer is price to page ratio. You simply get more pages for the money in manga, which means the audience is o with spending like $5 on tens and tens of pages of fighting.For a comic fan, if a $5 comic is half fight scenes, it feels like they're missing content.People buy comics so they see the illusion of the needle being moved. They want events to happen. They're more interested in who wins the fight than how it happens because the value to them is in knowing who won and how that affects things going forward.
>>152750690It's the end of several pages of them trading blows. It's a fight.>>152750894>relative to the time I think it's solid.I disagree. As I said here >>152748989, I don't think Ditko was that good at this type of fight. I do sometimes like his action poses, like when Spidey swings up from the ground, there's a perceptible momentum to it.>>152750956I guess this mentality is also why people opt for reading summaries instead of the comics themselves. There isn't much incentive in paying to read the comics if the writing sucks and the art sucks and it all just moves from plot point to plot point.
>>152748606is it the east vs west/tranime thread spammer again?
>>152748434dunno
>>152751559No.>>152751676I like the messiness of it. Superhero comics should be more stylized more often and do stuff like this.
>>152751696lol
>>152748109Probably.
>>152751853likewise
>>152751904If you really had an issue with this, you wouldn't like comics and cartoons either. You wouldn't be on this board rubbing shoulders and penises with them.
>>152750149Correct. It's 6 panels of crap.
>>152748989Post good examples of Jack Cole, Barks, and Eisner fights. I honestly only know Eisner for the fancy Spirit title pages.
>>152751181>It's the end of several pagesOk so that's the difference then. There was context missing. This didn't feel like the end of a fight but a short moment where one guy just one shots another. Maybe with the full issue of the fight it would have felt better. >>152751676 this feels like a decent chunk of a fight and the end of one.
>>152748109The ultimate evil
>>152749297You've got issues...
>>152748109I'd rather have a story with brief bits of action. Manga likes to draw out fights as long as they can and it gets really obnoxious. That's why a lot of them barely get anything done in dozens of chapters compared to a comic book plot getting it done in a six issue arc. And when you really look at something like >>152748434 you see how little you get out of each page. But shonen is like that by design. Keep fights going as long as possible so the story can take weeks to do and the artists can get away with throwing screentones and filters all over to hide how bare bones a page actually is. I want to read a story, not look at a slide show narrated by a bunch of people reacting to each slide.
>>152754341Strange how they never really address the fact that scorpion is evil because of brain damage
>>152748109Fight sequences in comics (and manga) generally feel like filler material basically the drum solo of sequential art.Maybe in a big collection it would work but in an individual issue its kind of lame.
>>152755622>reads action series>doesn't care about the actionYou're a special kind of retard.
>>152755622>I want to read a story>I'd rather have a story with brief bits of actionI can't take this argument seriously for marvel and DC superhero comics where story and plot don't matter because of the status quo and nothing really ends.
>>152755738why are you replying to yourself again?
>>152748109>because they're so badly drawn?Yeah I'd say that's a good theory on it.I read alot of comics and find the fight scenes extremely boring if they go on too long.It's kind of like a hentai doujin. The first 10 or 20 pages where it's sfw, building up to the action, that's really great, but once the fucking starts it's only interesting for 1 or 2 pages, then it's just boring because it goes from page to page without any thought as to the story or characters. The shy virgin girl who only 5 pages was scared to look at a penis is now tie to a public urinal bound up in ropes and she likes it. It's only interesting if it's well done.But I think the cause of it is easy to explain.In the beginning, comics were like newspaper strips, they had barely one page to get their story across, and it was low status work. Many of the early comic writers and artists wrote with pen names because they were ashamed of it. They did it quick and lazy. If they're told they have to draw one panel that explains the whole fight, they're just gonna draw them boxing, no thought gone into choreography or anything
>>152748434I love how you posted this as an attempt at an example of a bad manga fight. The filename even suggests you likely found it by searching "bad naruto fight" since this is an example of a fight that is bad in terms of fighting, as in the girl gets defeated instantly, and not bad in terms of artwork.Actually it's very good in terms of artwork. The tone and timing is communicated effectively. In the first panel it's dramatic, she makes a heroic charge for the bad guy. The second panel (on the right) shows the enemy she is charging towards, they don't seem concerned with her attack.The third panel shows her allies cautioning her, this is a twist. Something isn't right in her attack.And then the fourth panel is the reveal of the third panel's suspense, her attack is instantly stopped. The fact that she's still in her running pose communicates that this stabbing happened extremely quickly. We haven't skipped a fight scene here, what you see is exactly what just happened.
>>152755986But manga started as newspaper strips too.
>>152749524everyone in these panels has zero sense of speed, each one of them motionless, a posed figurine
>>152756036contHere I'll attempt to do the same thing with this Batman page, and I'm not cherrypicking here, this is a pretty good looking page by comic standardsIn the first panel, we see Batman just having taken out a bunch of guys and the bad guy running away.The second panel (on the left) shows Batman in this fight listening to the Joker. It's a big panel, and it has a lot of text, the pacing is appropriate.The third panel then shows Batman about to engage with some more enemies. He's up high, it's clear he's in a position of dominance here. He is the mosnter, not them.The fourth panel then shows him beating up that same guy.I'm not sure what the fifth panel is showing.
>>152756082Comics spent decades as newspaper strips. If manga were ever strips, we have scarcely any notable examples of it. With manga you start with full books that were heavily inspired by animation.And where comics persisted in its newspaper esque habits for the next 80 years, manga progressed beyond it within 10
I am convinced East vs. West posters are literal niggers. They only know about capeshit and shonenshit and can't comprehend anything other than fight scenes.
>>152756166Pic related shows that basically 95% of comics is fight scenes
the boxing comics fell off
>>152756166it's the same guy spamming them for months now
I don't really know why comic fans get so uppity when they're told manga does it better. They're both comics, the medium is the same. And the things that manga does better are so general and so obvious, that comics should be learning from it, not getting defensive.The speed lines are the biggest thing. Comics just straight up don't use them 99% of the time and wonder why their comics lack dynamism. It's not even a manga thing. Comics invented speed lines, manga copied it from comics, and then comics just stopped doing it, they literally regressed.How else are you going to communicate speed and intensity without speed lines? It's bonkers.
>>152756139Strip manga existed for decades before Tezuka and Tezuka's first published work was a newspaper strip.
>>152756292And then there's things like mouths and noses that are so grotesque in comics all the time, even on a woman.There's a reason they hardly draw noses in manga, it's because they look fucking ugly. It's almost important to draw a line on someone's face to depict the nose, without it looking too harsh. In real life, your nose isn't this blocky thing, it's comprised entirely of rounded shapes, that's really hard to depict with thick black lines. So in manga they simply don't do it.And same thing with drawing each individual tooth and gums, it's just ugly to look at.
The fact that there's an east vs west rule at all is pure copium coming from the mods because they know they can't win.Imagine a topic of debate so hopeless that the only way you can win is to just ban its discussion entirely.
>>152756082The Japanese found out about Duck Comics, and never looked back.
>>152756351Banning off-topic debates would be good actually.
>>152756423>ehm excuse me this thread about the accuracy of cars drawn in comics is offtopic because it's about cars
>>152756401I know that's the cheap bit of trivia everyone goes to, and we do know Tezuka contacted Barks, but I don't actually recall anything in his works that feels directly taken from Duck comics, but there's multiple elements taken from Gottfredson's Mickey strips
>>152756139Nonsense. Before tezuka japan had tons of local newspaper format strips. He didn’t literally invent the medium he just made it insanely popular
>>152756166The question is about Western art and Western comics fans. People bringing manga into the conversation is not my doing.>>152756279>>152756423This thread is about Western comics and their shortcomings. Not off-topic.
>>152756966No it's a stock East vs. West thread.
as some others have pointed out... The point of western comics was and is to tell a complete story in 22 pages with some ads. That means the whole story is completed in that time, especially in older comics they tell a full story not a 10minute part of a story that ends on cliffhanger a full 3 act story in twenty or so pages. So that means the intention is to complete the 3 act structure in a small amount of pages, the action is not the point the completion of the narrative is the point. Also yes modern comics suck in this regard because they waste a lot of time and accomplish very little per issue but thats not the point. So what you are doing is inherently unfair becuase you take a manga the size of the fucking bible and demonstrate how they spend like 60 pages on a fight and highlight the dynamics of motion and panel to panel movement in a fight that takes up what would be 3 issues of a old western comic. No fucking shit the manga is gonna have more detail. If you want to then make it about how talented the manga artists and writers are for being able to deliver such a large amount of pages in a shorter time that is one thing. But I find the comparison intellectually dishonest because youre comparing a gigantic stack of pages to a small amount of pages.
>>152756335Its totally fair to feel that way but its dishonest to not likewise present that beauty standards in asia lean into Androgyny. Presenting Androgyny in men is an ideal to strive torward for them and actively promoting sexualized children is encouraged and im not saying this to start the "hurrr underage character" argument im literally making a factual observance that the more prepubescent the girls are the more they like it, you can walk down a completely normal street in japan and its not abnormal to have 'loli' sexualized child bodies advertised to you, this as well as androgynous men are not idealized in the west, its not presented as beautiful or ideal, so you might hate noses and ugly mouths but its a part of what we consider normal because we dont encourage androgynous men and loli girls, and men often have grizzled faces like this with noses and detailed mouths as identifying features. For example there are house rules about how to depict Superman, they went as far as to alter Jack Kirby's art to enforce it, but in manga someone like Astro Boy is more mainstream to them and Mario who west portrayed in Super Mario Super Show as a gruff middle aged man in the live action sections is likewise made like a kid with a mustache in japan and western women as well dont try to come off as children.
>>152757005No. I actually read comics and manga.
>>152756423bad for the schizos THOUGH
>>152757238Then why did you make an East vs. West thread?
I can understand being upset about East Vs West threads but getting upset at people using examples from foreign media takes it a bit too far
>>152757075Because children do not have mouths and noses and neither does Mario.
>>152756335Autism. Also a lot of manga do individual visual teeth for closeups.Noses are great for distinguishing faces. Japanese creators do it all the time to depict Europeans.
>>152755706>action scenes in my action series? No thanks, let me hear their opinions on politics and gays, and what sports teams they support and what type of coffee do they drink.
>>152756036It is shit though. Western comics being consistently shit at action doesn't make that page better.
>>152757289If they had any self awareness they'd see how silly they look. But they don't. Clowns.
>>152756166The large majority of non superhero comics are still action series, imbecile.
>NarutoWeebs in absolute shambles.
>>152757075>Androgyny >Sexualized children Stop defending capeshit artists who don't know how to draw.
>>152757411Naruto is on par with golden age Looney Tunes. There isn't a single modern cartoon as cartoony as this.
>>152757032Don't bother AnonOP is a little faggot who got laughed off of /a/ for his shit taste. Since he can't possibly hope to bamboozle them into liking Shonen trash like Naruto, he decides to come here every now and again to assuage his delicate little ego by spewing nonsense at people who don't know that much about /a/ and pretending he's some sort of media expert .Don't worry, when Manga's normie appeal dies off in the next few years, he'll have nothing to brag about, and he'll probably finally 41% himself.
>>152757075to be fair androgynous looks are easier for them to pull off compared to conventional masculinity
>>152757457This post was made by a newfag that knows nothing about /a/
>>152757451Somebody just added looney tunes sound effects to this scene and it was hilarious. Weebs in general and narutards specifically have never fully recovered from this.
>>152757483I know that narutards like you are routinely mocked for your utterly pedestrian taste and autistic sperg fits whenever you get called out. If I weren't right, you wouldn't be here.
>>152757485Recovered from what? /a/ loved the Looney tunes version. I prefer the Ed, Edd and Eddy edit tho https://youtu.be/iZVGSetEHjA?si=l0ELdPNbnG3OzkAn
>>152757520Yeah, they loved to mock it. It's a perfect, goofy encapsulation of why nobody can take that shounen slop seriously
>>152757032The reason I used that Scorpion fight is because it's about 8 or 9 pages of two characters fighting. It happens, it just doesn't happen very well. If the fights are going to be brief, they could at least give those glimpses of choreography some more oomph, or use techniques to fit fights into smaller panels.Here's a creative way of showing a man falling onto train tracks and seeing him get run over.>>152757287I didn't. >>152757457I've been posting here for well over a decade. People have read comics based on my recommendation. I didn't post any Naruto ITT.
>>152757494Nta but /a/ considers Naruto a classic now and there are naruto threads every single day. Damn, there were active threads 15 years ago. The hate against Naruto was just a meme.
>>152757588I miss when simple stuff like this was board culture
>>152757577>>152757588Keep coping OP. It nourishes my soul you fucking weeb
>>152756335Okay this one is just you being an autist
>>152757612I miss old 4chan.
>>152756194There were boxing comics?
>>152757588And /a/ is shit now. Seeing narutards cry over modern shonen because they don't get mocked like Naruto back in the day is hilarious.
>>152757307>Noses are great for distinguishing faces. It's a shame that Westerners draw the same faces for everyone, rendering this argument invalid.
>>152756292True
>>152757629>>152757681Wow, someone's obsessed.
I will never understand why some really autistic people get mad at the fact that superhero comics suck compared to manga, webcomics, etc
>>152757678back in the days
>>152750204wrestling inspiration alone would go a long way.
>>152757746> WesternersAmerican cape artists maybe, definitely not European comic artist’s though.
>Wow, someone's obsessedYou're cope won't save you OP. Neither will your projection
>>152757959I don't know man. I've watched grappling and do believe it's hard to make visually interesting many times. Could do well with some takedowns though, those can look cool.
>>152757953Why would I ever read this over just watching Rocky?If it's all realistic, then movies do it better.You can't make a live action manga
>I read capeshit for the plot!genuinely the most hilarious shit I've seen in quite a while. This shit thread at least did something good
>>152757953Do you have a scene of the boxing and not massaging
>>152758554Why would anyone care about that?
>>152757904This community in general is so frustrating. They get incredibly nitpicky about foreign comics, and tend to trash non-action/superhero comics (then turn around and say superhero comics aren't supposed to be about action). Then they dislike superhero comics when they're done well. Can't be too bad (save for those who dedicate their lives to purposely reading bad shit), but can't be too good either. They narrow down their tastes to almost conflicting standards. It probably contributes a lot to the medium not getting much respect.I post threads about all sorts of comics and topics, and guess what I get. Crickets.This thread would probably not have received much attention if anons didn't start posting manga pages.
>>152758708You are crying like a little bitch.
>>152758749How so?
>>152757343>nonsensical blathering good point, spazz
>>152758708The biggest problem here is that the cape comics defense force don't read comics. They say retarded shit like "comics aren't about fights" when most of them are nothing but (bad)figths. Remember when they hyped up Hulk vs Sentry for like five months and then the final chapter was awful in every single way? Of course not because those fags don't read comics.
>>152759191Romita fell off so fucking hard. They really needed to get someone else on WWH. His art completely killed it for me.
>>152759294Even when the art is good the fights AND the plot are bad. ONE YEAR of the stupid Avengers vs X-Men event for this?
Manga WON
>>152748434>>152748917How good are the Europeans at drawing fighting?
>>152760090It was never a competition. Comics self-defeated.
>>152758526It's largely for the characters, the IPs. I hate this business model.
I'll be honest if I'm reading manga and there's a fight scene going for several pages with no dialog at a certain point I just start to skim it until the plot picks up again
>>152756292Here's a mangafied version of The Killing Joke.
>>152760862You're better off reading novels.
>>152760885I don't get it, how is it mangafied?
>>152760487They have a better flow to them
>>152760895The paneling and the colors?
>>152748109>>152748871>>152751181Disingenuous thread. Next time you criticize fights, post the ones where characters are static and just punching each other in a retarded way. Ditko's characters and fights were acrobatic and creative. Every punch and kick had impact. If it was strong, the other character would have a noticeable pose. Sometimes those fights could even be surreal, so they definitely weren't boring
>>152760912>the original concept had daisy duck...What? What was the original concept?!!?!
Zero flow
>>152760912I like this
>>152760913I can see they've done some superficial things like change the speech bubbles to more mangaesque vertical bubbles with stubbier tails, but why have they only removed half the colour? It just looks like the printer was running out of ink, why isn't it fully black and white like manga, or fully colour like comics? why this halfway house?And they haven't even adjusted the spacing of the gutters to a manga style spacing. This is just bizarre.But the real failing here is that the drawings are not manga drawing, and that's the biggest things. It doesn't matter what you do with speed bubbles or colours or panel gutters, what makes something manga is the drawings. And these are just the same comic drawings. And there's nothing manga about them in terms of lines, details, stylization, camera angles, values, etc
>>152760978Some manga have partially colored pages for the first few pages.
>>152760915Anon, that is really fucking bad
>>152760978>What makes something manga is the drawingsBy this logic all the comics and webcomics that use the "manga style" are manga
>>152761124pedantic
>>152761061And yet Ditko’s work will be far better remembered and influential.
>>152761061By your logic, your page is worse
>>152761147No one cares about Ditko. Sam Raimi created modern Spider-man.
>>152761147The American industry has hyped the main builders of the genre while ripping them off and whoring out their work. The marketing has done its job.
>>152761147Well I don't know about that random spider-man manga page, it's obviously just a paid job, but nobody below the age of 60 knows who Ditko is.And frankly, being remembered for decades upon decades is not something manga takes pride in. If people are still talking about an artist or writer decades after they're dead, that's a sign you haven't made anything interesting enough to replace them in the spotlight. At one point authors like Masami Kurumada and Go Nagai were household names in the manga scene, now nobody has heard of them and instead they know Tatsuki Fujimoto and Koyoharu Gotouge.Manga moves on. Spider-man is older than Mazinger Z, and Mazinger Z is a museum piece in manga's history nowadays.
>>152760931W.i.t.c.h.
>>152760912Could you provide a better example than this at least
>>152761210Kurumada was a huge hack tho
>>152761258
>>152761210Ditko’s work influenced other creators is what I mean. Influenced Alan Moore and Gibbons Watchmen, which in turn has influenced a lot of other comics.
>>152761210>If people are still talking about an artist or writer decades after they're dead, that's a sign you haven't made anything interesting enough to replace them in the spotlight.Insanely stupid thing to say. People still talk about Orson Welles or Godard or Kurosawa or various other old filmmakers, even in manga people still look at guys in Otomo or Toriyama or Tezuka, reverence for old masters is common in all art. Even in comics it's not like people don't care at all about things made after the 60s when Ditko was around.
>>152761061wtf are you trying to prove here man? They are just posing, this isn't even a fight. Seriously wtf? I don't want manga vs comic tribalism, but I despise how people act like it has no flaws or that it is superior in every way>>152761147It's not just that, it's the why. Why is he influential? It's not just Spider-Man or Dr. Strange, or Watchmen or his 3x3 panels. It's a long list
>>152761147Actually no.
>>152761328>They are just posing, this isn't even a fight.Yeah and your example shows it. Fights should have flow, they should be dynamic.
>>152761061Another not great page. I do think this shows the strength of speed lines and shit, ads a lot to any kind of action, even just awkwardly pointing your lizard fist out.
>>152760941Steve Dillon was pretty based. He really didn't give a shit. He started drawing for professional comics as a teen, and would treat it like a regular gig throughout his career. Sometimes he'd draw on the toilet.Anyway, Preacher is one of the few comics I've been able to get manga readers into.
>>152761366I understand why he got consistent work, he guy didn't skip a month, did the entire 66 issue of Preacher with no pause. That said, his art was never very good and at a certain point once he went full digital it just looked like ass.
>>152761328Do you call that a fight? There isn't moment
>All this fight scene smack talk and not a single Toriyama panel.I like both, but c'mon now.
>>152761515Posting Dragon Ball is cheating. Toriyama is the best comic/manga artist ever.
>>152761356And what's happening there huh? In that manga page those attacks aren't connecting, so poses. There's literally only one panel where that's not the case. Is that flow? Showing cool closeups but not the interactions between the characters? There's no dynamism there, it's not coherent. In the page i posted you can see why they're doing something, how that affects their opponent, and their follow up>>152761399Now this is a better example, I can't say anything bad about this page. >There isn't momentAnon, it's there. Literally, the biggest difference between both fights are the motion lines, which makes sense considering Astro can fly and he's throwing something that has a huge magnitude. I can't even argue against this, it's a beautiful page which shows some of the things I like about Ditko. Dynamism and impact
>>152761596>Is that flow?Yes. Sadly american comics will never catch up.
>>152761622Okay, explain me your definition of flow and how >>152761061is a good example
>>152755622But comics are the ones without stories. Nothing ever happens. Could you make a Batman, Superman or Spider-Man video with all this content? You can't https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QczGoCmX-pI
>>152761982Yes?
>>152761982I think I can word this argument a bit better.Comics don't have stories, what they have is more akin to mythology. Was it Actaeon who spotted Artemis bathing in the forest? Or was it someone else? Did Phaethon crash the sun chariot himself, or was he struck down by Zeus?In mythology there is no one clear cohesive storyline or canon, there is no one author, and each story has been told in a million different ways.There are countless stories within the mythos of each comic character, whether it's Batman or Spider-Man, etc. But there is no one true Batman story or Spider-Man story in the same way that there is only one true Naruto (nobody pays any respect to the spin-offs).When you see any given page in Naruto, what you're seeing is canon and permenant, it is the sole intention of the author and nobody will ever change it or render it obsolete in some way. Every line carries weight, each subtle expression adds more life to a character, every word they say develops their personality.Comic characters may have 80 years of history and over ten thousand stories to their name... but there is not a single page in any of it that captures that same feeling that a manga does.
>>152760915>fist disappears into his stomach>spider man punches him somewhere and he flies backwards>turns into a fucking ball and rolls through glasseverything except the first panel is pretty bad and even that one relies on spiderman being so strong that he can hit an unsteady pose while blocking a punch>>152760941really? I think it's pretty easy to follow even though I would have added a panel showing his fist going from punch to grabbing his hair
>>152760915I'm not one to bash the dead, but since you post, you insist.That page just isn't very good. The poses are awkard and clumsy. There's seldom any sense of motion, weight, speed, impact, etc.Compare it with this Batman panel that is much better drawn
>>152762184>fist disappears into his stomachAnon, see what's going on with Sandman's neck >>152761596That's the way Steve drew hits, similar to >>152761515If his fist is disappearing it's because of the hit. His whole fist carries that energy, and that's the correct way to show it considering that perspective >spider man punches him somewhere and he flies backwardsThat upper body punch is so hard that he was flipped. What's wrong with that?>turns into a fucking ball and rolls through glassOh my god, a ball. How boring. Breaking the glass with a punch would be more entertaining>even that one relies on spiderman being so strong that he can hit an unsteady pose while blocking a punchSo? What's the problem? It's eye catching, he's moving while catching his fist. Would you really prefer that he was standing still? I don't even understand your use of the word relies. It relies on him doing something that's catching your attention, yes. What's annoying you?>>152762394>The poses are awkard and clumsy.Mister, instead you could post a collage of faces drawn by Steve Ditko and you would have a better argument there. His work is definitely polarizing. Do you know why I like him? It has a natural feeling. Look at that pose Peter has, compare it to the other one. Now, if you were a superhero, would you always have the pose in the right? After reading many comics, you'll see that sometimes there's this standard about how you must draw bodies, faces, action, etc. Eventually they look like mannequins, statues. It's boring. Ditko didn't follow those standards. >There's seldom any sense of motion, weight, speed, impact, etc.I can't, I just can't.... That's not even a Ditko thing, everything you said is literally thereWhy are you niggas on /co/? You absolutely don't enjoy comics, and some of the posters itt that actually know about comics talk like if comics sexually abused them.
>>152762770They look like they're at the club dancing, and Spider-Man has drank too much and is stumbling over
>>152762812That kind of reaction is the real reason why comic art back then, and still today, could be boring. Craving for that standard I'm talking about is zombie behavior
>>152761383He's not great, but I like his brand of grit.
>>152762883What on earth are you on about?I just want good art, I don't care for your esoteric nonsense
>>152762770>if his fist is disappearing it's because of the hit. His whole fist carries that energy, and that's the correct way to show it considering that perspectiveI won't argue if it's correct or wrong since I'm not an artist, but I will say that I dislike the method since it removes much of the impact on the body itself>that upper body punch is so hard that he was flipped. What's wrong with that?because it doesn't show where he was hitultimately it feels very floaty and weightless>what's annoying you?I'm saying that I prefer a more realistic way of approaching fighting rather than things just looking cool.
>>152762770>You absolutely don't enjoy comics, and some of the posters itt that actually know about comics talk like if comics sexually abused them.Because they suck? Most people here prefer the cartoons and movie adaptions because the source material is that bad.
>>152762770>What's the problem? It's eye catchingIt's not eye catching. This is an eye catching block. And Marvel comics were always bad. At least DC had some cool shit in the silver age.>>152762883What is even your point? All the pages you posted were awful.
>>152762181What’s this demographic of person called where they try to meatride manga but literally the only thing they care about is mainstream shonen?
>>152763752>Most people here prefer the cartoons and movie adaptionsmost of those aren't very good either.
>>152763947Normies
>>152763947>it's popular therefore it's bad
If you like only manga, you're normal.If you're like comics and manga, you're a nerd, but you like things that are entertainingIf you like only comics and hate manga, you're deranged.
>>152765196Most people who hate comics haven't read much comics.Most people who hate manga haven't read much manga.
>>152748109I suppose it depends, I liked the Ion vs. Superboy-Prime fight in Green Lantern Corps #19 and that lasted the whole issue, save for the flashbacks to Ion's childhood.
>>152766262This fight is one of my favorites and shows one aspect of American comic fight scenes I enjoy; just how much the environment and environmental damage is an element. Obviously not unheard of in manga and there's lots like Jojo that use specific environmental structures as arenas and weapons, but many default to having the locations fights take place in feel very much in the background and most effect on the environment limited to cratering and rubble.
>>152760912The direction the car is going changes drastically in every panel. There is no flow.
>>152766326Pretty sure it's more prevalent in manga.
>>152760487I like Blacksad
Comics and manga both suck. Everyone should be reading good manhwa like Solo Leveling. Korean comics are the only ones that matter
>>152749678I just fucking hate the bullet trajectories depiction like that
>>152748434Naruto is hardly the representative of this you weirdo, except in anime. Post OPM by Murata instead
>>152758526>I read comics for superfluous action scenes depicted in still images
>>152760487Bought the same as americans.
>>152766940>I read action comics but I don't want to see actions scenesYou probably think you're a genius, but you're actually a moron.
>>152766844Webtoons are worse than both lol
Comics are a bad medium. They don't even move.
>>152766990You're just mad your favorites can't complete with Solo Leveling in art nor story
Demon Slayer is objectively better than Watchmen. There's no woke politics and Gotouge draws sexier women
>>152767147It's not but it is better than Kingdom Come, Infinity Gauntlet, Immortal Iron Fist, Immortal Hulk, Miller's Daredevil, Invincible, The Walking Dead, any Flash comics, any Captain America comic, any Brubaker comic and many many other critical darlings.
>>152767316Demon Slayer girls are sexier than girls in any of those. What are you talking about?
>>152748109this looks like from 1960s>>152748434this one looks like from 2010spost something that are released at the same year
>tries to falseflag bait>gets btfo with hard facts>tries to double downPathetic.
>>152748109>Looks worse 40 years later.
>>152767435>Anon thinking Alan Moore's a better writer than GotougeBait used to be believable.
>>152763947It's not synonymous, but Shonentards (especially those who excludively consume battle Shonen) tend to belong to the Hoodweeb demographic
>>152767362The only real examples itt comparable to the pic in the OP are the two Astroboy pages, which is ironic because >they basically look like 60s superheroes fights >they don't look like the other manga pages>but those two are more interesting and aren't convoluted or inconsistent >>152767435I think that it's funny how many pro manga posts bring up historical facts and comparisons, only to get replies showing how they don't know shit about history and how the comparisons aren't fair Oh and shonen is the genre they're defending. God manga is a varied medium and they're fighting for one of its shittiest parts>>152767550Every 21st century artist should be neutered
>>152767646The hard facts are that shonen is still better than capeshit.
>>152767646>>152767665>Oh and shonen is the genre they're defending. God manga is a varied medium and they're fighting for one of its shittiest partsDemon Slayer clears like 90% of manga too. Maybe you'd know that if you had some taste. Why do you think it's so popular?
>>152748109They stiff
>>152767646>they basically look like 60s superheroes fightsWhat? They don't. Astro Boy was way beyond any capeshit comic.
>>152767703That's the hard facts
>>152767316lol what? That's a horrible list, mixed quality. Critical darling my ass. But if you're going to put there Frank Miller's Daredevil, then please don't talk positively about Watchmen. Instead you could collectively say that the best American comic of all time, not necessarily that run, is worse than any manga that received critical acclaim. Please just say that. For actually liking and understanding Watchmen, first you must enjoy and respect American comics. If not, then liking Watchmen so much is just mindless normalfag taste >>152767667>Why do you think it's so popular?Haha maybe I should become an Invinciblefag and use that point whenever anyone criticizes that faggot shit. I still think that it's funny that I already said that I liked some pages posted here but you guys won't mention them. It's easy to notice how they don't look like the other oned that have been posted. They're not the same, they don't represent what you're talking about. So go on, criticize Tezuka as well. That would be gay, but at least it wouldn't be hypocritical
>>152767742Mixed quality in that some are worse than others but all of those are worse than Demon Slayer, Ranjit.
>>152767703There's a similar simplicity. Also the poses the bodies can have and how they try to show them completely when having fights instead of just centering on a single element
>>152766885>MurataHe is a soulless hack. ONE mogs him.
>>152767800No you fag. Shiting on the whole industry but still trying to give some credit to Watchmen is a youtube cattle opinion
>>152767866I didn't shit on the whole industry, you sperg.
I don't care if manga is better than comics but it's a fact that Miracleman is way better than Watchmen. Comics peaked right fucking here.
>>152767814What's your point? Some old manga that nobody reads is as bad as capeshit. That's as lame as the people bringing up old Naruto crap. What matters is masterpieces like Kagurabachi are coming out right now that utterly destroy anything made outside of Japan. The future is now
>>152767901Kinda agree but it's close. Too bad you can't buy it today, Marvel butchered it. Comics have high peaks but the middle tier stuff is bad and the horrible is super horrible, manga is more consistent.
>>152765115It’s funny how jeetcore this response is, a normal person could actually tell you WHY they actually like something like Naruto or DBZ, but people like you fall into that irony-poisoned tard mindset where your interest in [popular thing] is entirely performative, guaranteed there’s no actual films or books you even pretend to like too
>>152767945Incorrect because no normal person actually likes Naruto.
>>152767938Not even /a/ cares about the shit you posted
>>152767945>guaranteed there’s no actual films or books you even pretend to like tooThis is probably the worst thing about shonenshit/capeshitfags, there’s a very particular flavor of pretentiousness that comes from the type of retard that can only vaguely pay attention to something if it’s “bright-colored screaming action man”
>>152761288NTA but like, what point were you trying to make here? Because it's not like there aren't equally or even more influential creators in other countries
>>152767075Kys, slopper
>>152767945Have you considered the possibility that something is popular because lots of people like it?
>>152767901Watchmen is better, but both are great.
>>152767901unc shit
>>152768793What a meaningless post.
>>152769136And both worse than Demon Slayer
>>152767147Demon Slayer has better fights and cuter women, but writing wise it's not even close to Watchmen.>>152769309Both are better than Demon Slayer.
We're talking about fights in Western comics. Why are you retards bringing up all this shit that has nothing to do with that?
>>152769273Stfu, subhuman
>>152767316Born Again and Elektra: Assassin are better than Demon Slayer.
>>152755986>Lifts a whole barrel of oranges like it's nothing.That grandpa is a beast.
>>152769749Because western comics need to finally die. They're both irrelevant and degenerate. Japan won, end of story
>>152767857Murata is terrific, but he has to cut it out with that digital glow shit.
>>152770179And? That has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Idiot.
>>152761061Why did you post a worse Japanese image then?
Does anyone else feel like modern 4chan is only 10%-15% USA traffic these days?
>Some old manga that nobody reads>Astro boyYou are the dumbest /a/people I have ever had the displeasure of dealing with. No wonder /a/ chased you off you subhuman, you don't deserve to even breath the same air as humans. Your arguments are the same as your genetics, worthless trash.
>>152770614Obviously there's an infestation of third worlders and bots. However, this is an American anime website. What are you trying to say?
>>152770448I think the glow effect in digital is terrible, in both manga and comics. I wish artists would stop doing it. Just draw the light properly
>>152770711vs drawing it properly
>>152748434lol he runs into the sword like Flash did in Identity Crisis what a looser
>>152770721The chiaroscuro is good but the digital glow is still there. Not as bad, but do without it.
>>152770614The majority of people on the internet today live in countries that didn't even have access to the internet in 2014, and 100 years ago lived in the stone age
>>152766326Environmental destruction is always fun to see in superhero fights, but I think the drive to decompress stories has caused comics to lag behind Manga.
>>152770695This thread is not off-topic. It's a discussion about a flaw in Western comics. People bring up manga because they don't read comics. It seems like nobody here reads comics, not even the supposed fans. You guys suck.
>>152770760While I think comics need to do alot more than that to catch up with manga... cutting out all the lame decompressed scenes of character chatting at cafes would go a long way
>>152770791Yeah, I know it's not the only cause but I think it was one of the dominoes that lead to their current state. Comics need to return to at least some semblance of the balance between story and action they once had but I don't think the people currently in charge of making comics are capable of that.
>>152770843*aren't capable
>>152770843I think movies are taking too much inspiration from movies, but in the wrong ways.They'll see a diner scene that takes 5 minutes in a movie, and include a 5 minute diner scene in their comic.But in terms of time share, that 5 minutes of a 2 hour movie is a small share, it's not a big scene.But the same diner scene in a comic takes like 3-4 pages, that's like 25% of the comic issue. If that was a movie scene, it'd be 30 minutes long.They're just too long. Some issues are entirely non-action scenes, it's terrible.
>>152770614capes and shonen appeal to bollywoodjeets and telenovelafavelas, threads like these end up hitting 3rd-world critical mass
>>152770843I think it's also that more and more women and fags are writing these comics now.They're more interested in the relationship drama of the superheroes than the superheroes actually fighting. They're turning superhero comics into soap operas
>>152770902>They're turning superhero comics into soap operas
not a problem because I read indie comics
It’s weird that you can visibly tell that there’s this giant disconnect where the people who only care about laser beams fortnite dancing 8 million frames fight scenes pretend to care about the source comics for some reason
>>152770988Yeah.
>>152770988I care about comics being as good as possible. Don't you?
>>152770959No fights in indie comics?
>>152771095>anon would shit brix looking at the 4stats charts
>>152771155What does that have to do with comics?
>>152771128no the fights in indie comics are great, especially anything by pat mills.
>>152770088They are not.
>>152771262Well that's a bit fat lie.
>>152771345Nope
Finn got raped and gaped btw
>>152771389Fuck off
>>152767857 ONE's OPM is a parody not a serious work well, technically,so does Murata's, but it's more serious in its depiction of drama and action. Both are different genre and medium. ONE's serious action work is Mob Psycho not OPM. I'm not discussing about the quality of Murata's adaptation here, I'm just talking about the action sequences.You're being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian.
>>152771262You consider Pat Mills indie?
>>152771432If Pat Mills isn't an indie comics writer then neither are Alan Moore or Frank Millar. It's totally normal for a indie comics guy to have work in DC and Marvel.
>>152766844I hate manhwa webtoon coloring scheme. Sometimes it looks too garish yet bland. It doesn't blend well unlike manga. It destroys the rough edge design of the characters sometimes. Admittedly, most colorings in manga are done in cover volume or some chapters snippets, but when they do it, they do it right.
>>152771499I'd put him under the Euro comics umbrella.
>>152771710Eh, brit comics are separate.
>>152772353Not really.
>>152767646>Every 21st century artist should be neuteredWhy? They're starting to draw like manga.
>>152773012No they're not.
>>152773119Are so.
>>152770890Shonen appeals to normies of any race.
>>152774154Normies AND nerds.
>>152774154people, particularly boys and men, just want to see people hit each other in fancy ways with maybe some eyecandy on the side. It's really that simple
>>152748109I can forgive artists from the 60s drawing like this. They didn't know better.But artists pulling this bullshit now are retarded.
>>152748109I'll draw good fights, but they'll be short.
>>152769309Literal dog shit is better than Demon Slayer. Get some better taste.
>>152770614If you don't like anime or manga you are in the wrong website
>>152775310Nope, faggot
>>152748109Needs more cool onomatopoeia.
>almost 300 replies >Not a single good comic fight ittReally makes you think
>>152775945The thread isn't about providing good examples, it's about questioning the comics and their fans.
>>152749594>For no reasonOh, you're retarded, no wonder you love Naruto
>>152776443Post an argument the next time
>>152775945>>152776411You're both retards. Providing good examples is what proves why we are even questioning the comics and fans in the first place and your playing dumb to this fact is just further bait.And a good example is Spider-Man vs. Juggernaut. Some fights do have the dynamism of manga while others are about spectacle/feats.I think this one shows how they focus more on character and implication. Other times, they do in fact show bloodied faces and impacts. Or as earlier shown, they were more willing to depict the realism of brawls like Ditko. I think sometimes comics do heavily drop the ball when it comes to actual punches being thrown and not being willing enough to show kids the effects of violence for fear of making them think it is cool (it is, but I do think some fear and risk being highlighted makes for a more interesting story and negates that "coolness" effect as much as someone actually punching you). However, the fights we do have are as memorable as certain DBZ fights. Just for different reasons.
>>152776559All that text for yet another 60 year old comic page.I'll admit it's more dynamic than the earlier examples, but it's still very weak and would be instantly rejected by any manga editor, and its artists told to work on his art to make it more dynamic.
>>152776559>the fights we do have are as memorable as certain DBZ fightsLet's be honest, this isn't true at all. I think the most "memorable" cape fights ever are Batman vs Superman (tdkr), Superman vs Doomsday (dos) and Captain America vs Thanos (IG) and they aren't as good (and popular) as the dragon ball ones.
Sometimes, it's more of the vibe and buildup of the narrative itself that makes the action sequence interesting and not merely the fight itself. At least, that's how I feel about Batman Knightfall after reading the prelude and still currently ongoing with the BK series. It's mostly jam packed action oriented, that is usually the main focus of superhero comics in the very first place, basically what you would expect if you're a young boy buying a comic book with your spare change and unlike other notable batman works, that also delve into the psychological or mystery/investigative themes common in Batman comics. This is just my 2 cents as a casual.
>>152753893Plas lends himself to a certain flow.
>>152756335You're right about the noses You're being autistic about the mouth
>>152776750I always liked Wally vs. Thawne in "Return of Barry Allen."
>>152776882>Plastic Man is the only cape hero with a good fight More like Plastic CHAD
>>152776882Most heroes can't do this though
>>152776897I never liked this. They're moving as if they didn't have super speed powers. Yes, I understand they're both speedsters to each other, but I'm fucking not.
>>152748109I don't care.
>>152778298You cared enough to post.
>>152770448He really isn't when you compare page composition of the twoOnce he breaks off from ONE it gets significantly weaker.
I just like it when more than one thing happens in an issue. Spending an entire issue on a fight seems like a waste
>>152778952Yeah but nothing happens in most comics
>>152779004Writing for the trade ruined single issues.
>>152774994>Hiatus x Hiatus fanHoly shit, no wonder you read shitty western crap. Demon Slayer's better because it sells way more than your stupid old BL manga, unc.
>>152776895Am I?When I compare the way mouths are drawn by manga artists with those drawn by comic artists, I see a stiffness in the comic artist's work. Their work is more realistic, a mouth only opens as far as it can in real life. Manga mouths are much more cartoony, allowing for considerably more nuanced expressions. Plus they just look nicer. In comics we see all the saliva and details of the teeth and gums, for lack of a better word, it's just icky.I think comic mouths would look a lot better if they simplified them, at they very least just simplify the details to be less.. bodily to look at.
>>152779441Mouths aren't even gross. You're just retarded.
>>152779570Maybe seeing all the details of a mouth is only gross to me, I don't knowBut one thing I know is definitely not just me, is the expressiveness of a mouth.A realistic styled mouth on a face can only open so wide, and it's not very wide at all. Half the face in any given comic look like this, and it's just very weak. They look like the artist just looked in a mirror, opened his mouth and copied what he saw. It conveys virtually no emotion at all. There's no cartooning here at all.
>>152779687contOn the note of cartooning. It's basically the status quo that comics are realistic, while manga is cartoony, but is there any good reason for this?In any story, you want to communicate the emotions of the characters to the reader.In a book that's just text you have to describe it and let the reader imagine.In a play, the viewers are too far away to see the actors face so they express through their body language and voice.In a movie, you can show closeups of the actor's face.In a painting, the artist has all the time in the world to make that face perfect and expressive.But in a comic book, you have alot of tiny drawings in panels, drawn by an artist who doesn't have all day and night to create a masterpiece with each face.What is the point of drawing pic related? It's a very small and not very important drawing on the page, it was unfeasible to spend more than a few minutes on it. But it is still attempted realistically. It's a recipe for disaster. You can't draw an expressive face at that scale, in that time frame. And even in one genius master artist manages to pull it off, that doesn't mean it's a good role model for the rest of the industry (which at the present is still trying to be realistic in art style)The whole invention of cartooning is to solve this exact problem. By making the eyes bigger and other facial features simpler and more exaggerated, you can draw the character quicker, easier, and convey more emotion in less work.Comics stunt their own potential by attempting to draw in an art style that fundamentally unsuited to the medium and industry.It's as though a theatre actor attempted to express their emotions with their face, even though the audience would never see it.
Looking through this thread is funny, you could not get an ironic weeb to consume any seinen besides Berserk by principle
>>152779876contIt's also worth noting that it's very common in the comics industry to trace from photos. I think this is a terrible habit, and here is an example of just how bad it can be.What is a perfectly expressive face in a photo is often rendered stiff and awkward when traced directly.There are nuances in a real face that are extremely difficult to mimic in an equally realistic drawing. It's very hard to make a face expressive while drawing realistically. And doing it quickly and with minimal lines? You're asking the impossible.And even if they're not directly tracing photos, they're referencing them, or looking in the mirror and copying their expression. Golden age disney artists did this yes, but they weren't drawn realistic faces, so it worked for them. It's not working for comic artists, and they should stop doing it, because it makes their faces look terrible.
>>152779052Kys, subhuman faggot
>>152780010
>>152780010>>152780021Those are extreme examples, where it's obvious the artist just traced a photo.But pic related is more of what you usually seeLook at this and tell me the artist didn't just make a scrunchy face in the mirror.He looks constipated. It's a bad drawing. This would have been far more expressive if the artist had thought up a more cartoony expression. I'm not saying Loony Toons, but just.. draw a face that works for comics.
>>152780079This is a good example of what I mean, this Judge Dredd picture.It's not Loony Toons, but it's not realistic either. Real life faces can't distort that much. But it's expressive, and that's what matters.Cartooning is playing to the strengths of comics. And drawing realistically is stunting it.
>>152779052Nah.
>>152780079Leinil is great.
>>152770614I think that’s also because 4chan’s traffic is sinking like a stone, it feels like the “average” is literally just maladjusted 3rd-worlders
>>152781049It's even worse on social media. Instagram is just flooded with them.
>>152778566He was already great with Eyeshield 21.
>>152770614>>152781049To all of you complaining about non-Americans, your enemy is the cartoon coomer threads. That's why they're here.
>>152780117Why did you post this?
>>152777086Hell yeah brother>>152777754True. Maybe three/four total, it's a very limited number. And I think you have to have the right mindset to approach a stretchy shapeshifter and make good scenes with him.
>>152779992Why would anyone ever read Beserk when Demon Slayer does everything it does better?
>>152781642>CoomerDon't pretend to be an oldfag, tourist
>>152782463It was never this bad, was it? I've been here since 2011, so technically I'm a newfag.
>>152758708The only real audience for cape comics anymore is autistic boomers who have buying them out of habit for years. They're very much stuck in a certain mindset and so is the industry.
>>152782290Stfu, you subhuman slopper
>>152757457>Don't worry, when Manga's normie appeal dies off in the next few years
>>152783109It's just shitty bait.
>>152783090there's honestly less boomers zombie buying the books than people think, a lot of fans drop off around 45-50 and just do back issues. There's always a crop of a few thousand 20-30 year olds who come in thanks to growing up with the media and engage until they burn out. Comic twitter is a good example, it's largely younger people, even some teenagers. obviously a lot of them are just pirating, but its similar in a lot of comic shops; you get your 25-45 buying audience then your 46+ year olds who think the peak was 20+ years ago and are just buying old stock. It's why you have some shops survive off backissues alone.
>>152783314I only got into comics seriously as a teenager in the 2010s. Unfortunately this was right during Marvel's ANAD era which I hated with a passion, DC was okay though. I used to hate being accused of being an over 40 year old white man for criticizing Marvel's output and all the replacement heroes at the time since I was still young and not white.
>>152781866
>>152757457>"Don't worry, when Manga's normie appeal dies off in the next few years"/co/pe/a/nime and M/a/nga are here to stay/co/cksucker
>>152770179Thissss
Reminder that this spammer >>152784284 is actually a resident /co/sucker, and this is his way of stirring shit up in these threads that he doesn't like.
>>152748109We need someone with big money retarded enough to care about comics to fund art schools to teach European and Japanese techniques, along American ones. People with promise can be turned into phenomenal artists and crank out diamond while shitting gold. Then there'd need to be a publisher to hire them.
>>152784887Make it so.
>>152784887>teach European and Japanese techniques, along American ones. name 5 of each
>>152784887I think alot of what you say is not really necessaryIt's not really art skill that is the issue, we have tens of thousands of amazing artists in the west, they're just not making comics. Because comics are not very lucrative. They'd rather draw furry porn or whatever. pic related is a furry comic, the guy has skills, but he's busy drawing porn.
>>152785208Probably doesn't help that it's a lot harder to pivot from being a porn artist to being "legit" in the west than it is in Japan.If you're someone who likes drawing gay furry twink sex, there's not much for you to do in the western comics industry outside of that.
>>152785279Frankly it's not even that it's "hard to pivot" but rather that there's notwhere to pivot to.What are you gonna? get a job at Marvel? Even if you could get in, who the hell wants to write Spider-Man #14545?And the more minor publishers are so tiny that you're better of just self-publishing.There's not really any industry for author driven comics in the west, you have to do it yourself and that's a major headache.
>>152785208That looks like shit.
>>152748109they do
>>152785337It's clean, the guy knows his anatomy, and he's able to put out hundreds of pages.If he hadn't become a porn artist, he may have produced something akin to a popular manga but in the west.
>>152785375>If he hadn't become a porn artist, he may have produced something akin to a popular manga but in the west.No he wouldn't. The west always loses because it produces degenerates like him. This is why you'll never get a Demon Slayer in the west.
>>152785428ThisCocksuckers are evil. Evil cannot create anything new, they can only corrupt and ruin what good forces have inventes or made.
>>152782562>It was never this bad, was it?It was. The 2010s generals are still unmatched in degeneracy. The big difference was that there were comics and cartoons to talk about. Now we have nothing.
>>152785375You're listing bare minimum requirements. It still looks terrible.
>>152785208There are tons of good furry artists but the one you posted is awful. Get better taste, faggot.
>>152785703meanwhile comics
>>152748109Gor its time it looks pretty good
>>152755622ThisOp is a young dumbass faggot not remembering that a bunch of shonen gets critiqued for dragging shit out and not ending
>>152757457Manga has gotten too popular with normalfags
>>152757904Its not even thatIts yhat instead of enjoying your manga you have to constantly annoy us with your interests by rubbing it in everyone's facesNo one likes an obnoxious tard Don't complain about bees after kicking over a beehiveYou knew whay yiu were doing by posting thia thread here
>>152758526>posts superman picThis site is really strange
>>152770614Shonen and capeshit fight discussion is Jeet town or filled with Mexicans Im not even hating, just go to the death battle thread and see for yourself, its the truth
>>152786315>Annoy usYou don't read comics, newfag
>>152786315not that anon butI don't hate comics, if I did I wouldn't bother coming to /co/. But I can see that both manga and comics are the exact same medium, just stories told through sequential images.But where there is a lifetimes worth of amazing manga to read, there is virtually not a single comic worth reading.I point out that manga is better than comics not to bash comics, but to preach a better way for comics to be. The lessons to be learned that would make comics better.I like manga but it's fundamentally Japanese. There's only so far that I can look past all the Japan-isms like kimono, tatami mats, serafuku uniforms, all the -kun -chan -san shit, etc. I want a manga of my own nation, with my own culture and its quirks. I can find over a dozen manga dedicated to Japanese shrine maidens, but there are no comics dedicated to bushcrafting in US forests.But I want it done properly, ie, like manga. I want the characters to look attractive, I want the dialogue to feel natural, I want the pacing and timing to feel animated, I want the action to feel dynamic, I want the work to be written and drawn by a single author with a clear vision and I want it to conclude at a natural finishing point.
ShartGPT really did make 4chan exponenentially worse
>>152786434Just ignore that fag, bro. Anti-anime tourists are too young to understand your point.
>>152786434I like manga DESPITE it being Japanese. I like it because it's good, at all levels. It's just quality entertainment. They know how to write, they know how to draw. They're more adept at the medium of telling stories through sequential images than the US in every way there is.I'm sick of comic artists being so stubborn and refusing to learn from what is an incredible resource of "do it like this and it's better". It took manga decades to figure out the tricks it uses, all we need to do is copy the result. Stop with the retarded realistic faces, and the tiny panels with stiff poses and walls of text. Stop with the shitty colors that make characters look like they're covered in coal dust. Just copy manga and the comics industry will become the biggest it's ever been in its entire history. My local comic shop closed down years ago. If comics improved, it would not only come back, but it would come back bigger than ever.
Then when someone does all of that it flops because you retards only want superhero wackyshit with [recognizable thing] on it
>>152786434>I don't hate comics, if I did I wouldn't bother coming to /co/.>there is virtually not a single comic worth reading.Seems like pure hatred to me.What you want is localized manga. The manga format is fundamentally Japanese.
>>152786434I'd rather read Ditko than Takahashi, desu.
Why are pencillers and inkers still separate jobs anyway? It's not like it's still the 70s where the entire team is crunching to meet deadlines on multiple comics.
>>152787415I don't get it either. It's fucking dumb.
>>152748109This works better if you read it as a manga.
