Oh yeah, that happened
>>152755676Wish it didn't.
Amazing that this was their big anniversary film.>could have had fun, loving, power couple villains>could have been a romance with a star twinkNo wonder Jennifer Lee was made to step down. Here's hoping they get back on track with Penelope if it isn't cancelled, maybe they'll show it at D23
They should have been working on this movie for the previous ten years. They should have dragged their greatest minds out of retirement to do it.It looks rushed and un thought out. Like they did it all in a weekend.
>>152755676I don't even think DISNEY wants to remember Wish ever happened...
>>152755835Think they were working on it for a while but it got massively retooled.Was weird how they were boasting about the art style though. I guess they either dialed back the painted look massively or simply didn't have the talent to make it work.>>152755855It has zero presence in the parks which is usually a pretty key indicator of something being a megaflop. I don't think I've heard the songs in any of the parks I've been to.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JO8jr7m3ONA&list=PLwISzmwJRz6QJf5fc6pEWveRKfxK__fBfWhat could have been...
Does anyone have the greentext leak about how Jennifer Lee torpedoed the film?
>>152755676I find it funny that nearly all animated Disney movies have become so inundated with 'twist' villains, that simply having a guy who is a villain from the start is considered a 'classic villain' despite having nothing else in common with classic villains.
>>152755707OP here, FPBP.
>>152756104They were really hyping up how he was going to be a great villain before release, only for him to be mediocre and for everyone to think he had a valid point. The way his wife treated him was really fucking weird.
>>152755718>Amazing that this was their big anniversary filmI see it as direct cause and effect. They were so hung up about making the “perfect” anniversary film that they sabotaged themselves and overthought it. They tossed those genuinely good ideas because they thought they’d make the film less than perfect in some way. And substituted them for mediocre crap ideas that seemed safer, but of course were ultimately worse.
>>152755707Fpbp>>152755676Oh come on, it was big enough of a misfire to be remembered.
>>152755835>greatest mindsYou mean a bunch of heckin' white guys? Not happening.
>>152755870To be fair, the only (positively) memorable song is the villain one
>>152755707Fippy bippy.
>>152757317I can't unhear "things that make you go hmmm" with that song.
>>152757317Can we all agree Lin-Manuel Miranda has been the scourge of modern musical numbers? (I know he didnt make songs for this movie but his influence poisoned it and every other disney musical(along with many non Disney ones.))
>>152757362LMM can at least restrain himself and resist the urge to make every song fast paced semi-rap with overly long lines. I think a bigger problem is everyone trying to make pop songs. You no longer get the coherence you got from the Renaissance days where every song in a film sounded like it belonged to that film. Wish they'd go back to getting the overall film composers and lyricists working together.
>>152757362The only thing I THINK I recall from him were the new songs from the Little Mermaid live action, and those didn't fit in with the others, for me. Besides, as usual, the movie butchering the old songs.
>>152755707/thread
>>152757490Once you recognise his style you hear it in everything he's been part of.This is one of the worst/best examples of his style: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAW1yvaZPzY also for some reason that song has an insanely high number of hot as fuck background characters, despite pretty much all the female characters in the film being hideous
>>152757362The thing I dislike about LMM’s style and Wish’s style in trying to emulate him, is that those songs aren’t very singable. I grew up with Hakuna Matata and Part of Your World, which are songs that are pretty easy for even a little kid to do a singalong too. I’ve heard of french classes that taught the french versions of Be Our Guest and Bonjour to kids, because they’re that easy and translatable. Let It Go is a great modern example of a song that really struck a cord with little kids. Even the most tone deaf three year old can communicate when they’re singing the chorus of Let It Go. But Hamilton songs seem difficult for people who aren’t already immersed and slightly practiced in a hip hop/rap background. They’re good to listen to, but harder to sing. Reminds me a little of opera, actually, in that they’re still good to listen to. But it’s generally understood that people will want to sing along to Disney musicals. Some of the top songs at my local karaoke are Be A Man from Mulan and You’re Welcome from Moana. Be A Man always sounds great, but people stumble over You’re Welcome a lot. And then on top of it, Wish’s songs don’t even sound good. The lyrics are dogshit, like an ai was trying to write them and struggling to make all the syllables fit. No one even wants to try to sing them because they sound awful even coming from professional singers who had practice and autotune on their side.This doesn’t discredit LMM as a song writer necessarily, Moana still has a good soundtrack, imo. Even if it’s not the best fit for a classic Disney film. But Wish insisting on trying to mimic his style while refusing to actually hire him is such a monumentally bad decision.
>>152755718Penelope is either gonna be the next Tangled or the next Frozen 2. I hesitate to say it could be the next Frozen, because that movie was propelled into becoming a surprise hit despite being a very flawed movie, and I doubt Penelope is gonna get that lucky.
>>152756916>The way his wife treated him was really fucking weird.This is because they merged his wife with a scrapped apprentice character, a more reasonable writer would scrap one of the useless MC's friends instead.
>>152758490They should hopefully have taken a few lessons from everything since Frozen.>add a romance, possibly multiple so that people "pick" their love interest>keep it a fairy tale, don't constantly nudge and wink and break the fourth wall>make the songs something you can sing along with, even if people can't hit the highs or sustained notes>no fucking twist villainsMy big worry with the film is that they've picked musical songwriters but... Heather: The Musical and Legally Blonde: The musical?
>>152758634But, anon! Seven dwarves reference! Like Lamey and... uh... Cooky? And there was a fat one who wanted to be a guard, I think?
>>152758702The irony is, dopey was also a sorcerer apprentice.
>>152758690Heathers: The Musical has great music though. I haven’t actually heard anything from Legally Blonde: The Musical, but I’ve heard good things. It’s a good sign that a musical style will be suitable for your disney movie when there are successful disneylike fan made amv animatics of the songs all over youtube. I actually suspect this is part of why they were so attracted to making Frozen resemble Wicked.
This movie is a good example of too many cooks in the kitchen. The movie is a mess of cut plotlines.
>>152755718I still need to watch that ancient shit video tape Princess and the Pea movie. No idea where to watch it
>>152759145This is one of the stronger examples of that, but I really can’t think of many Disney movies this side of the millennium that haven’t suffered from that problem.
>>152755676Hey, remember Raya? The movie with that dragon a bunch of people here were crazy about.Then the movie came out and it sucked so goddamn bad people barely remember it as well.
>>152759554Lilo & Stitch and the first Wreck-It Ralph were pretty singular visions. And Tangled is a rare case of a film with countless rewrites that ended up being one of the best in Disney's entire library.
>>152759562>character a bunch of people here were crazy about and later they barely remember itThe official term is Flavor of the Month and we do this constantly. It is usually mostly unrelated to the merit of the property itself and instead fueled by a couple of key anons who hold an attraction to the character itself for some reason, and then share a fuckton of fanart of her (or, less often, him).
>>152755676The celebration advertisement they released a week after it came out was hilarious. Disney tried to gaslight us that this was a massive hit. In retrospect I think it was the first Disney film fully written by AI.
>>152759614Regardless, now I see people bringing up Wish more than Raya. It's an incredibly low bar, and it still goes under.
>>152756916It’s just funny how they said he was going to be a good old fashioned evil from the start villain, like Jafar or Ursula, and end up making him their most sympathetic villain who seemed to be a genuinely decent guy. Like the whole granting wishes thing, he didn’t have to do it for his people, it’s not like hoarding wishes was the source of his magic. He just did it as a nice thing for his people and they were ungrateful.
>>152759615It didn’t need to be written by AI to come out the way it did. I hesitate to say so, but it was made a lot like Princess and the Frog was. A lot of major decisions for that movie were made under the pressure that they were unveiling their “first black princess,” and they didn’t want to come off as racist. So Tiana could not be a maid, because that’s too mammy, so she had to be a restauranteur. She couldn’t be named Madeliene/Maddie because thats too common and not ethic enough. Naveen’s race needed to be as ambiguous as possible because he can’t be too white or too black. Tiana’s hair can’t be too curly or too straight, her lips can’t be too big or too small. Etc etc etc.With Wish, the pressure wasn’t on (just) race, but on making the “best possible anniversary movie ever.” So Star couldn’t be a tumblr sexyboi twink, because shipping him with the mc is too romantic, and there’s too much criticism of Disney princess romances. The King and Queen can’t both be villains, because evil queens aren’t feminist enough. They can’t cut the many many stupid easter eggs referencing other Disney movies, because the whole project exists to remind you how great Disney movies are. The very art style could neither be too modern nor too classic. The moral and story wound up a total mess, because they never decided on a clear idea of what they wanted the moral or story to even be. They razed through idea after idea after idea until they ran out of time and shit out whatever they happened to have left. Which worked for Frozen out of dumb luck, and worked for Emperor’s New Groove because they gave up early enough and pivoted to making it looney tunes levels of whacky to excuse the flaws. But couldn’t work for Wish because that high stakes pressure never let up even an inch.
>>152759750And then he went nuts and used the Book Of Unforgivable Black Magic, because he really wanted that wishing star, because it had the power to... grant wishes... wait
>>152755676That black girl is so cute and I love her dress. She's way prettier than Moana.
>>152759750I think he was meant to be like disney renaissance villains partly in that his major flaw is he’s simply power hungry. Jafar, Ursula, Scar, etc are all evil characters who want to take over their respective kingdoms and become evil mad rulers. You could arguably say that Magnifico granting wishes ties into his power complex. He might not have been able to found the kingdom of Rosas if he didn’t attract people into immigrating to it with the tempting promise that it is ruled by a wish granting wizard. He doesn’t do it out of the kindness of his heart, he does it to gain control.But yeah, they did make the baffling decision to then also give him a sympathetic backstory explaining this motive, and then a poorly executed corruption arc. He only craves control in the first place because of sad backstory childhood trauma. He turns evil because he becomes possessed by an evil magic book. But he also doesn’t deserve to be rescued from the evil book’s influence because it’s his own fault that he selfishly read the magic book. Which is a kind of convoluted over explaining that many of disney’s earlier classic movies are completely unconcerned with. All this only serves to confuse how the audience receives the character. Like every other part of the movie, Magnifico’s whole character lacks focus. It tries to be too many things at once and does all of them badly.
>>152760023God, I couldn’t even remember her name. I wanted to say Aisha. I looked it up. It’s Asha. I was close, but that’s still really sad.
>>152759562I still come across porn of her occasionally
>>152758634>one of the useless MC's friends And by Jove were there MANY
>>152757074>When a 3 minute fan animatic absolutely moggs the whole movie in paying respects to Disney's 100 year legacy.
>>152760866This might have the most forgettable side cast ever
>>152759750How do people still miss that he was obviously a narcissist control freak with good publicity?
>>152761044>When the only reason you remember the Dopey charzter is the dumb little "DOPE DOPE DOPE!" he does during the heckin' rise up, you guys song
>>152755676The only good thing to come of it were the scant few adult pics of Valentino with a horse penis. An equine dong on a goat is surprisingly aesthetic when done tastefully.
>>152755676People weren't ready for what he was trying to teach us
>>152755718not really lee's fault, they gave them barely any time to make the film because disney wanted it out the door for the anniversary even though it obviously needed more time in the oven
>>152755718How do you make a princess and the pea movie? That story is not very complicated.
Will never understand why this movie got the hate it did. It's a great anniversary movie, and on par with Frozen.
>>152756021its definitely fake anon. this board is full of salty frozenfags who seethe about jennifer lee because frozen 2 was shit, so they make shit up to make her look bad.>>152761067its partly contrarianism because he's a white guy, partly the stakes of the movie being explained really badly.
>>152755676Forgetable movie, but "This Is The Thanks I Get?!" is a certified BOP.
>>152755718>could have had fun, loving, power couple villainsWhat I would have given for a Monarch/Dr Mrs The Monarch style power villain couple.
Watched it recently, I thought it was pretty good.Fascinating concept about the wishes. >You give away your most precious wish to the king. >After doing this you immidiately FORGET what your wish even was. >Then the king MIGHT grant your wish at some point in the future.>a wish for "true love" wasn't grantedIt's like some sort of "benevolent" AI-tyranny when you think about it.
>>152761067Genuinely, I think most people talking about the movie haven't actually watched it and are just repeating stuff they hear that agrees with their preconceived notions.I used to say the same thing until I sat down, watched the damn thing, and saw how the whole wish thing actually worked. It's less "he just grants wishes" and more he holds your deepest ambitions hostage until arbitrarily deciding to make them come true. Also he gives you selective amnesia about it until then. A lot of people talk about instead as if you have any control over what wish he takes or try to imply you can just make up a wish on the spot to give him.
>>152755676https://youtu.be/g3aZp2QplvQ?si=iEdEDwiYx79H5XbQ>concept art of the star transforming to a boy>demo version of this song uses loveIt's funny because Disney still denies that Wish was ever supposed to be a romance
>>152761883the thing is, basic math could tell you that your wish isn't going to get granted. and we don't know what happens to people who refuse to hand over their wish, the movie never bothers to show us this. like sure maybe they ostracise or exile them, but as nothing is ever said, we don't know thatso basically it's a dystopia everyone opted-into, which makes it hard to care when people complain about the terms and conditions, because those conditions aren't exactly hidden
>>152755676started as a very racist movie and ended in a very shitty movie
>>152762077It's been a while since I watched the movie and I'm not about to suffer through any of it again for the sake of discussion on a Cantonese knitting forum, but I think the opening monologue says something about giving up your wish (possibly at a certain age so he isn't spawn-camping babies) being basic admittance to the kingdom.I think part of where people get tricked into thinking he starts off as a good guy is because until he cracks open the Big Book of Evil he doesn't do anything bad with the wishes. He just hoards them, deigning only to grant the ones he knows won't eventually come back to hurt him, and wish grantings seem to happen infrequently. At best he's a benevolent dictator about it. Also what was said here >>152760032, giving him a sad backstory was certainly a choice that only confuses his character.None of this changes the fact that the mechanisms are kind of fucked once you look past the surface level of it. I remember going into the movie fully expecting to just mock it in the same vein as Disney's live action slop and ended up feeling disappointed more than anything. Somewhere in this mess is a good story, Disney just fumbled the bag at every turn.
>>152755676The movie who bombed in comparison to a Kaiju movie
>>152762393>>152755676>>152755707The biggest humiliation Disney suffered.
>>152761673Neither is Rapunzel, Sleeping Beauty, Little Red Riding Hood, The Frog Prince, or Cinderella. At least, none of them need to be complicated. But they’re all easy enough to stretch with a little creativity. When an anon upthread mentioned it’s got a songwriter from Heathers, I instantly started to imagine some queen bee type popular girls styled rival princesses singing Candy Store to the pea princess about her inferior skin, or something. That’d be fun, you can write a plot around that and still preserve the tower of mattresses thing. Maybe it’ll be like that, maybe not. But you get the idea. I’m in a showtunes mood, so here’s Candy Store, if you haven’t heard it already:https://youtu.be/SVFHB-H5mRE?si=lq702I7zlVT4Z8lj
>>152762348it is fucked if they actually elaborated on that i agree, but the movie's so frontloaded with exposition and inconsistencies, people default to siding with the character with the most charisma. and asha is kind of anna-lite so most don't like her that muchwatching the movie i was reminded of how well monsters inc does exposition by comparison, all the 'rules' get explained in scenarios playing out instead of just dialogue
>>152761820I’m never gonna unsee it as a metaphor for artists selling their intellectual property to the walt disney company. I think the movie sucks and I don’t think that interpretation excuses any of its flaws. I just can’t explain its story any other way than an ironic desperate cry for help. I must be coping.
>>152762348> something about giving up your wish (possibly at a certain age so he isn't spawn-camping babies) being basic admittance to the kingdomI’m having trouble remembering, because I’m getting tripped up since I know the grampa was about to turn 100. But maybe you’re right. I think they made a point to stress that the sleepy guy changed the day he aged up into the system and had his wish submitted. Personally, I think it’s too convoluted for a fairy tale. And I’ve read some weird ass fairy tales. But rarely do they overcomplicate things by trying to logically explain every magical detail. Why can the wolf in little red riding hood talk? Because fuck you, it’s symbolism, thats why. Why are Cinderella’s shoes made of glass? There’s a long translator’s note with a story about how that happened, but really we kept it in because it’s more whimsical this way. What is a cheshire cat and why does he smile? It might be a humorous reference to an advertisement for butter, but you don’t gotta worry about it too much, he’s iconic now.
>>152762348I don't think they ever explain how it works exactly for people born inside, but I seriously, SERIOUSLY doubt they're dragging people in chains to get their wishes extracted, or throwing them on a boat if they refuse, the amount of friction between families and Magnifico would be simply impossible to ignore, way before Asha ever got involved. No, I believe the way it was set up by the writers is that everyone willingly gives their wishes to the king for a chance of it being granted, which leads to what I think is the REAL flaw of this society, of which both Magnifico and his subjects are equally responsible.It's an entire culture of giving up. Everyone chooses to play a wish lottery rather than work on making them come true themselves, even for something as basic as playing an instrument or mastering a trade. Everyone chooses to skip the journey, and Magnifico in his benevolence is their great enabler, good intentioned but completely ignorant of the terrible effect such a setup has on people's spiritual health. Magnifico unwittingly created a kingdom of sloth, but the writers thought it would be more original to have the story be a conflict between control and freedom, of oppressed freedom fighters standing up to The Man.
Why the fuck were her friends the seven dwarves
>>152762348https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qi0J74szHPMThe wording is "when you turn 18 you get to" not "you have to"So it very well could be 100% voluntary and everyone is just rolling the lottery when they could just keep their wish AND utopia living.
>>152762815If you look at it as representing american late stage capitalism with oligarchies, nobody really signs up for that either. But you get called a commie for complaining, because the society is just structured that way so people accept it and even talk themselves into it being a good thing since they’re so deep in they can’t figure out a better alternative.
>>152762937The opening song is asha greeting immigrants. So people are arriving to the city from the outside and they all don't see any issues.
>>152762778>I think they made a point to stress that the sleepy guy changed the day he aged up into the system and had his wish submitted.I actually forgot about this part.>But rarely do they overcomplicate things by trying to logically explain every magical detail.This is just a problem with modern story-telling in general, people needing every little thing explained rather than let rule of cool take over. Disney themselves are to blame for some of it; how many name backstories do we really need?>>152762815I didn't mean to imply the forced people into it. It kind of goes back to the "good PR" thing mentioned here >>152761067. Rosas was a flourishing kingdom that drew people in simply for its prosperity. I don't remember if they say the wish thing was known outside the kingdom but it's implied that once people get there they had zero issue giving up their wish to be part of it. It's less a culture of giving up and more a culture of people willing to gamble for easy gratification, even if they have to wait their whole lives for it.>>152762921"Get to" could also be deliberate wording to make it seem more desirable.
>>152762864Because Snow White was Disney’s first feature length movie and they really really wanted to do something cute to acknowledge that in honor of the company’s 100th anniversary feature film. AND because they might’ve been hoping to launch sequels and a tv show they were gonna need a cast for. AND because they’d received criticism in the past that Disney princesses never seem to have many friends and that that makes no sense. AND because they struggled really bad to decide which ideas to keep and which to cut, so they weirdly both needed filler for the runtime while the movie also feels jammed with too much bullshit. And maybe they were trying to shove in some kinda point about the importance of community.
>>152762778>they made a point to stress that the sleepy guy changed the day he aged up into the system and had his wish submittedThat was "Sleepy" the "dwarf". He was always sleepy, but he got "boring" when he gave away his wish.
>>152762416I’m actually kind of surprised that the Skin Care Princess is not Korean. At least, the name Penelope seems to suggest she’s not.
>>152762348>Also what was said here >>152760032, giving him a sad backstory was certainly a choice that only confuses his character.>>152760032>I think he was meant to be like disney renaissance villains partly in that his major flaw is he’s simply power hungry. Jafar, Ursula, Scar, etc are all evil characters who want to take over their respective kingdoms and become evil mad rulersHow is he supposed to be like them? He already won.He gained great power and got the kingdom already.
>>152763072Which is weird because his wish was apparently "to be a loyal knight". Also, if it is common then it is temporary because everyone else with a missing wish is lively.
>>152755676I like how they tried to convince us the hero was somehow the villain
>>152763126Yeah, he went from "the king" to "the EVIL king". He did not gain any more ownership of the territory from being evil.
>>152763176“Stealing” and hording the wishes is meant to be viewed as evil to begin with. He gets more powerful and more evil because Star shows up and he goes overboard from his obsession with being the most powerful guy in the room.
>>152763072His name is Simon and we don’t know quite what he was like before. I think “boring” implies he was less lethargic, though. But hey, maybe they used “boring” intentionally so they didn’t have to commit to him not having always been sleepy.
>>152763239Honestly hoarding wishes and wiping them from people's memory was actually a smart move. We're only shown the pretty and wholesome wishes because this is family friendly Disney land where everyone's nice, but actually this whole thing is a great way to screen for the inevitable guy who wishes to sleep with everyone's wives, the pyromaniac who longs for the prettiest city fire, or the genuine aspiring petty tyrant who wants to usurp Magnifico and have everyone live under his boot, the exact scenario that Magnifico is treated as a strawman for proposing. I'm using extreme examples, but there's plenty of wishes that necessitate some kind of harm to be fulfilled. Using grandpa's wish as an example was a rather scummy way to distract from the fact that some wishes really are better off being kept under lock and key. Imagine if you're happy living your life util your wish is returned to you, and you remember that you wanted to be a pirate king, the scourge of the seas.
>>152763140The only two other people who are characters who gave up their wishes are the mom and grampa. Or maybe that lady was the gramma, I don’t remember or care.
It's just too overloaded and heavy of a premise, which invites a lot of nuance, but the story wants you to take a LOT for granted for the main character's actions to be justified and even then it still has to clumsily force the plot point of the book turning Magnifico irredeemably evil. Like, otherwise the story could come to a much more reasonable, albeit less exciting, conclusion that Magnifico just needs to chill and return the wishes he won't grant. Instead we get:>ALL WISHES ARE INHERENTLY GOOD, DEATH TO THE KING!
The villain could have easily been redeemed at the end which would have been a much more satisfying conclusion.>”I let my paranoia and fear of losing everything again drive me to obsess over the thought of losing my power. But I genuinely do want to protect everyone and should have realized that sooner. I’m sorry.”But they just went with “nope irreversible satan magic he’s evil forever now lol”.
>Oh yeah, that happened
>>152759750>"I granted 14 wishes last year, come on that's a high percent!"Yes. It is, actually, that sounds freaking excessive, and you SHOULD be granting less.
>>152765150Over 100% if he does them once a month like I’d thought. Maybe he threw in two surprise bonus ones. Still kinda a low number when you consider that everyone in the kingdom wants theirs granted, and because they live in a magic fantasy land where most people don’t have bad intentions, there’s no good reason not to just let them have what they want.
>>152763487>Using grandpa's wish as an example was a rather scummy way to distract from the fact that some wishes really are better off being kept under lock and key. Imagine if you're happy living your life until your wish is returned to you, and you remember that you wanted to be a pirate king, the scourge of the seas.Nope, sorry, but if you're just going to let the magic "Fill in" the details for a wish, you are asking to get FUCKED. Magnifico was right to be worried about "Inspire the next generation," but I will admit, he jumped the gun.
>>152765009I did not even hatewatch this one. Wake up when they get a space opera right. I’m not counting Treasure Planet because it’s a pirate adventure reimagined in outer space and thus feels like cheating
>>152765009This. I don't know why people bashes Wish so much when this was an even more massive bomb, it bombed so fucking HARD in any ways possible (also don't get me wrong, Wish is shit too).
>>152765583Wish is their 100th anniversary celebration movie and it's supposed to be a mainline princess movie. It's basically a guaranteed success, and they fumbled it.
>>152765583It's because it's a nothing throw away movie. Wish was pushed harder. Also, the villain was wasted on this movie. Sorcerer kings is some Conan shit that could have killed in a much better movie.
>>152765583Wish at least left a few of us morbidly curious enough to watch it, making it easier to discuss. Even people who didn’t watch it can lurk and get an idea of some key talking points. It was a huge embarrassment for how badly it failed compared to what a big deal the company wanted to make of it, sparking interest and inviting criticism. Strange World wasn’t even hyped by Disney hardly at all. They knew it would flop. The only thing most people here can probably remember hearing about it is that one character was gay. And apparently that has very little to do with the story, maybe so that it could be censored in China.
>>152765574Isn't Brad Bird working on one? Ray Gunn?
>>152765718Wasn't Strange World supposed to be relegated to Disney+ because Disney knew it was shit, but got strong-armed by the LGBT arm of the animation studio that they had no choice but to put it in theaters? This was during the height of Disney's fight with Florida over the Don't Say Gay Bill, so Disney could not afford an internal LGBT protest PR disaster. That's why you don't listen to activists. Or better yet, don't hire them.
>>152758309I can't even fault the songwriter for Wish. She was literally given two-line descriptions about the context for each song and was dealing with Disney execs every week.>>152758690Gay or European? is a great song.
>>152762416Blue is the highlight of the Heathers soundtrack and it's a shame we'll never get it performed again because they think audiences are too stupid to understand subtext.
>>152763487it would be interesting if your wish got granted after a life of not having it and you were like '??? i wanted this? why?'
>>152755707I sometimes think you're a badass, anon.
>>152755676Lemme guess the dude on the top is a wish master, the chick at the bottom finds out he's crooked (sexually and mentally) he then throws her into the unknown abyss and that's where the story begins as she makes her way back to stop him
>>152755676This movie is highly satanic because it has stars aka PENTAGRAMS>>152765009This movie is highly satanic because it has homersexuality
>>152761646She had five years.
>>152759750he should have kept malicious wishes around and selectively granted ones that targeted people he didn’t like
>>152768654Still not enough time for a major motion picture.
>>152769274No, that's plenty. Mulan took 5 years, Toy Story 2 took ~18 months, The Princess and the Frog took < 4 years, etc.
>>152767355No that would be a much better story.
>>152765308Well he was wrong about the grandpa's wish to make music. Music in and of itself doesn't just inspire revolution, it has to be something that speaks about revolution or doing something bold/rule breaking. If he can control the parameters of the granted wish, he could have just made the grandpa be a great singer/song writer for anything but songs that inspire rebellious and negative emotions. Of course, that's the other problem with his whole character is that he clearly can control the extent of how a wish is granted, yet only does it to terrorize the cast once he goes evil.
Given the way Magnifico was stingy about granting too many wishes, maybe have it that granting too many upsets the natural balance of the world. Either it turns he has to indirectly siphon talent from people who wish to become artists/musicians, or prevent one couple from successfully conceiving a child for the couple he's granting wishes to (in more flowery terms, of course), and so on. By trying to bypass that with the star, chaos erupts as people get whatever they want, possibly even changing their minds constantly for more extreme and improbable desires. This could have led to not so much a twist villain, but a character simply letting their indecisive heart wish for something that ultimately turns them into the final threat of the film. It would be how there's nothing entirely wrong with having big, far-fetched dreams, but needing to keep things in perspective and how it could impact others.Like how if someone wished for massive amounts of money, they'd be basically hoarding all the money from other people.and yea, I know the Mouse would never make a direct or even indirect jab at its greed, but you get the point
>>152764451>>152764987The wife treating him like crap right after definitely reeks of man hating bullshit
>>152770242the premise of 'magnifico used to be a star who got made bitter by people fighting over his powers' was literally right fucking there and they just had no interest in it
>>152771230Heh, I could see that working too. He enjoyed it all at first, then got tired because of all the "me me me me me" stuff and nobody wanting to focus on fulfilling more easily obtained dreams/wishes on their own power. Meanwhile, the need to take someone's greatest wish is either to sustain his life or something else for driving the plot forward.
>>152771230>>152771261Fucking hell look at /co/mrades turning this drek into a more epic premise
>>152771261>>152771230>This Is The Thanks I Get is mournful dirge as star!Magnifico realizes that no one cares about him except to satisfy their selfish desires>This Is The Thanks I Get (Reprise) is a furious stadium anthem as human!Magnifico realizes nothing has changed While a great idea, I feel like it would only double down on the "Magnifico isn't really a villain" problem.
>>152771592I mean, you can still have him be villainous, it would at least make him feel more justified since the way he's done in the film, where he's actually pretty reasonable before the book stuff. And not like we haven't had villains who ultimately turned good or at least showed they weren't all bad (like John Silver from Treasure Planet). Playing into your greentext, perhaps have it that he's afraid of people abusing the wishing star and perpetuating the cycle of stars being used by ungrateful people.
>>152771634I can also see it as a criticism of utopian ideology.>It was all the same! "I want a big house! I want to be rich! I want to never have to work!" So I came up with this Magnifico identity, the kingdom of Rosas, and gave them all their material needs so they could wish for something meaningful. And what did I get day in and day out? Nothing! Just whatever floated into their head at the moment. "I want to fly by flapping my arms. I want there to be fish made of chocolate." And don't get me started on the ethical concerns. The only thing people wanted more than wanting someone to love them was wanting someone dead! So I created the wishing lottery with all its rules and started taking people's wishes away thinking maybe, maybe, if they only had a chance to get one wish granted they'd take it seriously, they'd think about what truly mattered to them, and if it mattered so much maybe they wouldn't leave it up to chance. What do I get? Wishes for jobs they could get if they applied themselves, wishes for whimsical flights of fancy, wishes that sound profound but are empty thoughts. So your grandfather wished to inspire people, what does that even mean?
>>152770989It felt like a checkmark cult quota
>>152762409What's your point?
>>152755676Yay, the first Disney activist!
I liked wish, why do people hate it so much?
>>152761558
>>152772027That works too. He wants people to focus on self-improvement, while the occasional outlandish wish is done just to show he's not some charlatan using illusions. He CAN grant pretty much anything, but doesn't want people reliant on wishes when a lot of their needs could be fulfilled through hard work and all that. And there's plenty of room to work in something where perhaps too many selfish or unrealistic wishes poses a threat to the universe. Think something like the Shadow Dragons from Dragon Ball GT. Would make it where the wishes aren't necessarily a bad thing to have fulfilled, but can't be done all the time.
>>152772147>>152772158The problem with Asha is that she doesn't actually want anything herself. She wanted her grandfather's wish to come true even though she had no idea what it was. That doesn't motivate people to climb mountains or seek out sea witches. Her motivation needed to be personal, but Lee couldn't let her strong lgbtqia+ Black Latinx be selfish!
>>152772810
>>152772147>>152772158Also, unbeknownst to these activist writers, people hate activists. They're obnoxious and self-righteous Karens. All they do is bitch and never offer any solutions beyond taxing the rich.
>>152772868Bitch couldn't even imagine a way to improve life in the kingdom. How about some goddamn air conditioning or trees that bear fruit daily?
>>152772868>>152772900Well she certainly FITS the Disney princess trope, given one of their shared traits is wanting more than what they already have. Problem is, Asha is living a pretty much perfect life, unlike many other Disney princesses who at least had some reason to want something>Ariel and Jasmine want to see the world beyond their kingdoms>Belle basically wanted an adventure like the ones in her books>Rapunzel wants to know the origin of the lights she sees on her birthday (and get out of that stuffy tower)Asha is living in a literal utopia, and yet she's not happy because grampy wants to be a musician or whatever.
>>152773018At least the princesses knew what they wanted. Ariel wanted to be human, Jasmine wanted to leave the palace, Belle wanted excitement, and Rapunzel wanted to leave the tower. Even Esmeralda knew how to improve life for the outcasts and strove for it. Asha wants her grandfather's wish to come true because he's waited long enough I guess? It's pure entitlement.
>>152760997So weird to retool an obvious love song into a hero/villain duet. A hero/villain duet is a great idea, but this just aint it.At least Aladdin had the dignity to cut Proud of Your Boy even though it was hard. Imagine a version of their animated Aladdin where they forced this in, but made him singing to the Sultan or Jafar or Genie or Abu.https://youtu.be/IVR5THX1u3M?si=bglnytPGloHYemmB
>>152765765I wish I could say I was cautiously optomistic, but I’m not. Maybe Bird will impress me, he’s done that before.
>>152772810>she doesn't actually want anything herselfThat's actually perfectly fine for a character. You just need a story that supports it. Let's say Magnifico does what he does out of narcissism; he doesn't care what the wishes are as long as everyone loves him for it. All he does is grant big flashy wishes or ones that leave people feeling indebted to him and the entire wish lottery is his way of holding people under his thumb. So you have Asha who he doesn't have any leverage over because she's genuinely content with herself and who creates issues for Magnifico because she also wants to help others achieve their wishes through mundane means.
>>152773205Intrinsic motivations are more satisfying than extrinsic. The story needs to be so important to tell that it impacts the character psychologically. Like Anna, Asha experiences zero character development. And Lee didn't want Asha to have any or else she would be implying Asha wasn't a perfect strong queen Latinx girl from the start.
>>152765899Veronica passed up the chance of a lifetime to get doubleteamed by those two clearly closeted bisexual jocks.
dollar tree bought up some of the figures that were 20+ dollars to sell at 1. that's how bad it flopped with people
>>152773285At least some children in Africa will be getting brand-new toys of a character that looks like them.>>152773202I'm not hearing good things about the work environment of Skydance Animation. Apparently Lasseter is pretending Skydance is Disney and what they're making is all follow-ups or stories with the same Disney touch. I read that he has pushed Ray Gunn to be more silly and campy and it's driving the crew to the edge.
>>152773358Lasseter generally has a pretty good nose for what works. Sounds like Skydance animation was a bit haphazard before he arrives with half a dozen projects in various degrees of completion.Luck suffered from a boring middle, Spellbound did some interesting things but took too long to get to that point. Both of those were projects most of the way through before he arrived though, will be interesting to see what swapped is like as that'll be the first one he's been in charge of since the early stages and it's got the director of Tangled behind it.
>>152773547Huh, they literally announced the air date today, May 1st
>>152773547Spellbound had fantastic design but a mediocre story. I like the parallels to the process of divorce, but the separation didn't feel like a huge deal to the kingdom. Relatable, perhaps, but not grandiose. We never got to see Elian transform into a monster. The fantasy setting didn't complement the narrative either.
>>152773580The poster isn't enticing to me. We get two weird animals staring at a glowing uvula. So what?
>>152772027this makes me think of old disney. but such writing would require someone on the creative team to love the characters and put soul into them, which i don't think anyone was interested in doing for wish>>152773547lasseter has done mostly garbage since he left pixar
>>152757362LMM writes like that because he has years of experience freestyling live. When they get other writers to try to imitate him lyrically it sounds like shit because they think they can do that type of wordplay easily but they have no rhythm so they can’t wrap their head around the meter.
>>152773666I feel it would have been better not saving the divorce stuff for the second half of the show. There should have been more stuff that was foreshadowing it in retrospect, fun jokes about them having differences that turn out later on to not be so funny. Also dealing with how the princess has all those happy memories but they're not tainted from not knowing if her parents were happy at the time.>>152773733Eh, he's done two films that were in production hell when he joined.>>152773704The film looks like it does some interesting things in terms of designs. Most of the animals are plant hybrids (the feathers on top of the birds heads are actually leaves if you look closely).
>>152772434>"I feel sorry for your grandfather, I really, really do. But his wish is everything I don't want to see come true.">"I remember him when he was a boy. He was a lot like you. Full of willpower, creativity, and a belief in the hidden light inside of everyone.">"He never had a wish either. Instead, he built a home, a family, and a community, all with his own two hands. It was amazing, I thought for a second, that he understood!">"Then, he just ... stopped. Like that was it. He laid the foundation for something great and then sat back in his rocking chair and ...">"... Wished someone else would do the hard part for him."
Possum Reviews even came up with a better plot and one that involved some nods to Disney's legacy. The fact a youtuber who uses a shitty mspaint avatar and half-assed jokes could make something better says a lot about the current state of the House of Mouse.
>>152762979Still fits for the America analogy tbf. Countless people immigrate to the US to work their life away for a shot at the gold. I could see it. >>152770126>that's the other problem with his whole character is that he clearly can control the extent of how a wish is granted, yet only does it to terrorize the cast once he goes evil.Seriously this concept is great if it was just consistent but the execution was a mess.>>152773962>>152763487>>152764987I like these angles on Magnifico. Making his paranoia and control reasonably justified by people’s behavior is sympathetic. Making him like a perfectionist boss who uses his power as justification to judge everyone else and mete out resources feels grounded and kind of what they were going for. The controlling and idealistic side of him is more compelling to sympathize with than tragedy. The pieces were there. >>152773273They’re not mutually exclusive though. Mulan’s motivation for taking her father’s place in the draft was both extrinsic and intrinsic. Asha could be the optimal character to fight that fight because she’s the only one who doesn’t want anything from Magnifico and sees the downsides to his utopia, it’s that easy.
>>152755676Wish was Disney's centennial movie. 100 years of Disney animation culminated into this film.
>>152772027Sounds like Magnifico became the child of omelas
>>152773813I had inklings it was going to be about divorce when they mentioned how the parents constantly fought as monsters.I could tell the bird looks plant-based. The little rodent just looks humanoid and something from the truffula trees. And I can't stand the one-word titles that aren't names- it's Lasseter's brand.>>152774141>They’re not mutually exclusive though. Mulan’s motivation for taking her father’s place in the draft was both extrinsic and intrinsic. Asha could be the optimal character to fight that fight because she’s the only one who doesn’t want anything from Magnifico and sees the downsides to his utopia, it’s that easy.I don't think you understand. Mulan had both intrinsic and extrinsic motivation. Asha and Anna were purely extrinsic. And again, there really weren't any major flaws in the kingdom.
>>152774158and it was like wet fart instead of a grand tribute to their history. I know some people bring up how they should have done something featuring references to their long history of works, but really it just needed something that felt like a love letter both to their history, and the industry that they helped shape. Could have been something akin to Fantasia, but perhaps more plot driven. Being purely CG just made it feel like any other CG movie of the last 20+ years.
It'd be one thing if only the media industries and what they make was crumbling to dust outside of little pockets, but everything also becoming more expensive to live a basic life is so harsh. Can't blame teenagers and early 20s students for coping badly and stressing. They don't even get to have better escapism options except for what (only some) videogames give
>>152773160I could see it possibly working if they had tweaked the lyrics and made it about Aladdin going to confront his dad in the third and final film, that could have been an interesting take. Might not have had the same emotional impact as the original song since it regarded his mother, but at least it'd be aimed at one of the parents as opposed to the weird hypothetical you mentioned, which definitely would have been ill-fitting had it been to someone with no relation to Al.
>>152758309underrated comment, the songs do suck and are hard to sing to. The rhythm is weird and all over the place though. The only song I liked was the weirdly romantic duet with Asha and the villain guy.
>>152775684But by the third movie, Aladdin is already a very accomplished and respected person, and the heir to the kingdom of Agrabah. The original conception for the song was all about how he’s a loser and a thief with no prospects who has only brought shame to his family. And about how he was gonna finally turn that around. Moving it to the third movie doesnt just require tweaks to make it fit a son singing it to his dad instead of his mom, it requires dredging up Aladdin’s inferiority complex that he’s supposed to have gotten over by the end of the first movie. Also, i had to look it up to refresh my memory. But Aladdin 3 does have a similar sorta saddish sorta inspirational sounding song about Aladdin’s lack of a relationship with his dad, called Out of Thin Air. It’s no Proud of Your Boy, but it’s more fitting for the story they went for in Aladdin 3 than forcing Proud of Your Boy into that spot would be. Weirdly enough, if we’re gonna suggest moving Proud of Your Boy to a different movie entirely? It’d be surprisingly potentially fitting for Nick Wilde in Zootopia. Too bad it’s not a musical. Anyway, your idea still makes way more sense than Wish trying to keep At All Costs the way they did.
>>152776102Oh yea, like I had said they'd have to tweak the lyrics, but I feel like it could have worked if they had gone with a drawn out lead up to Aladdin reuniting with his father. I'd imagine it'd probably be like just all the emotions of "what do I say to someone I can barely remember? Who left me and my mother behind?" or something to that effect. Might have been tricky given that you had two movies and nearly 90 episodes of adventures. Obviously, not the course they went with, but it's fun to at least imagine. Though I could also see something like making the song upbeat and being the cap off to Aladdin's adventure following his marriage to Jasmine. Like he's singing to both his mother and father about the amazing life he's gained, going from a lowly street rat to being on track to take over for the Sultan once the old man was ready to call it quits. Of course that would probably make the song not nearly as emotional as the original version, still an amusing thought.
>>152774304Purely extrinsic motivation is perfectly fine and the notion that a protagonist must undergo a profound and transformative character arc is irrelevant to good storytelling.
>>152765899>GOOD GOD>MY BALLS
>>152770242>Given the way Magnifico was stingy about granting too many wishes, maybe have it that granting too many upsets the natural balance of the world.Thanks for the reminder that Bruce Almighty did this two decades ago and did it better than anything this movie did.
>>152776923>LOOK AT IT!>LOOK AT IT!
>>152762348Actually it was the other way around, people from far away countries Coe to get their wishes
>>152777126I guess that's true, though in my head at least, I imagined the misuse of wish granting could actually fracture reality or cause something like rampaging entities born from outlandish wishes.But yea, the movie seriously squandered the creative freedom it had with Magnifico having seemingly no limit on his wish-granting powers... and the most he did was just make some giant animals and shoot a few spells like a generic wizard. Guy could have gone all Father from FMA and basically do something like 'Oh yes, that boy from the western side of the city wanted to see the sun up close, I'm sure he'll see it from here" as he conjures a fucking massive fireball to try and incinerate the protagonists or something like that.
>>152763448Actually we know, thanks for tie in media.
>>152772147Vagueposting: The Film
Literally the Forgettable decade of Disney animation
>>152777280No one takes that stuff for canon. Going by this thread, most anons who watched Wish barely even accept the movie’s canon.
>>152755676>preventing people from wishing is… le bad!>I wish for infinite sex>I wish everyone I don’t like is tortured for eternity >I wish I controlled everything>I wish for infinite gold>I wish I could do whatever I want
>>152755676Can we please get another traditional film like Tangled.
>>152778021The canon is so much worse than the early concepts.
>>152775105I haven't watched Wish, but reading the plot one could interpret it as the story as that of a young executive trying to get other artists' story out of IP ownership hell created by a older more established executive. Which is kinda the story of Disney, as a corporation.You know, creative people sell their wishes (story/IP idea) to a king and then the king decided whether to grant (finance) that wish. Sometimes the deliberation process is so long the wisher forgets their original wish and moves on to a new wish and un-granted wishes are hoarded by the king (IP holder) for some esoteric value (money). Of course this is just a reading.
>>152778514I think it's funny how the nixed concepts spawned more of a fandom than the actual film did
>>152778027That aside, I still don't understand how the whole "you forget about your wish once you make it" thing could ever work. These people never told anyone about their wishes before? Surely there had to be some friends or relatives going "hey, what happened to your painting hobby/apple pie baking/guitar playing?". Also, how is the fact that most wishes never get granted even a twist? He granted them at a public annual ceremony, everybody could see how many he was picking over the years.
>>152755676>We bully a refugee turned protector king until his PTSD resurfaces>Wife immediately turns on him the second his paranoia manifests, justifying it Disney really knows how to make a film
>>152778769The writer thinks the audience is too stupid to pick up on anything.
>>152778514A gir in youtube said it first.>We had women be the villains, we had men be the villains. We lost the chance for a villain power couple for this movie.
>>152778514We were ROBBED
>>152779947Lee refuses to write women as evil. That's why they made the queen a cunt.
>>152778769In the case of older residents, one could assume that their friends aren't living in the kingdom too. But yea, it's one of those barely thought out idea when they could have just left it at "you give up that wish and cannot have that particular one granted", as the memory thing clearly wasn't too thought out.
>>152778204>Your WISH is granted. Tangled will now be in live action and have CG talking Pascal and Maximo, played by Shia Labeouf and Jack Black respectively
>>152778027It made some sense that Magnifico wanted to avoid seeing his new kingdom destroyed, but rather than have rational limits on the wishes like:>they can't be wishes that bring harm directly to people>they can't be wishes that cause economic or emotional strife to otherssomething like that, would have worked. While "inspiring the next generation" is vague, it literally sounds like a positive wish, not a negative one. If the guy was so worried about the wrong kind of inspiration, he could have just magicked it so the grandpa couldn't inspire rebellious thoughts.
>>152755707FPBP
>>152778821
>>152755707Lmao, naisu.
>>152778589Why should they forget their wish? I feel like wishes shouldn't be tangible.It could have been an easy story if it was about how Asha is the first person ever to refuse to surrender her wish for contentment.
>>152757362Lin Manuel Miranda is a talentless hack diversity hire shit only hyped up because he’s nigger adjacent
>>152781232Like so much of the movie, it's clearly not well thought out. There's all sorts of reason they could have done it>Give up your greatest wish for residence, with all the perks that come from living in the kingdom>Magnifico needs the most powerful wishes to empower himself, which comes at the price of the memory of the wish, which he sees as insignificant since he's not taking away more valuable memories like loved ones>Or it IS for a sinister reason that gets exposed later in the filmSo many ways to fix it, but instead it just feels like a tacked on element that wouldn't change the current film at all if it were omitted
Which was a more humiliating for Disney; This or Chicken Little?
>>152778514>>152778821so much wasted potential
>>152757966wtf is this TRASH
>>152781399This and it’s not close
>Not granting ALL wishes is bad.>Even though countless stories have shown that granting any kind of wish is a bad idea given how easily it can backfire.
>>152781505We should not be restricted by primitive superstition in these enlighted times.
>>152756104I think the best "twist" they could have done for this is that there is no villain, just two good people with different views on how things in Rosa should be working who eventually learn that there's room for compromise in the end.
>>152781399Chicken Little may have failed on a number of layers back in the day, but at least it's got some things going for it. The same can't really be said of Wish. Yes, it looks a lot better, but that's probably the only thing it has over Chicken Little.
>>152781809That or just showing that a wish can get out of hand if it brings something difficult to control to life. Suppose someone wishes for a dragon because they just really wanted to see a dragon, but instead the thing rampages and causes destruction. You get a threat for everyone to unite against, and a reinforcement of the necessity to monitor what kind of wishes are granted and what ones need to be ignored.
>>152782022That would be assuming some kind of value system tho.
>>152782057Not really, just making it clear that wishes can get out of hand if they aren't vetted. It's one thing if a person says they want to be blessed with a child compared to someone saying they want to be strong and powerful. Plus, certain folklore about wishes, like that of Genies and Djinn usually work on the principle of them not always creating the things they conjure, but simply summoning it to the wisher. They wanted gold and jewels? Someone's treasure chamber just got lighter. Somebody wants to see a dragon? Well a sleeping dragon is now suddenly rudely awakened and far from its home and angry that a human did something to rouse it from slumber. The point is that Magnifico's system for granting some wishes was extremely vague, case in point being the grandfather's wish to inspire people and how Magnifico acts like it automatically means revolution.
>>152781992Chicken Little at least made a profit. Wish cannot say that.>>152782022It never recognizes life is often a zero-sum game. >>152782120 put is succinctly.Plus why couldn't the public submit wishes in writing? Why have a physical form for wishes? The movie never answered the question as to why wishes are important beyond "we're all stars, dude". Pretty shitty that all the power of wishes amounted into fucking over one person.
>>152755676>Making a Walt Disney stand-in the villain in a movie purportedly celebrating Disney's 100 year anniversaryThe amount of disrespect and gall shown by the people behind this movie would almost be laudable, if the movie itself had actually been good. It's not.
I'm sorry I wasn't paying attention while my nephew was watching this but does Magbifico have his own power or was he exploiting the star somehow?
>>152782341That just wraps us back around to the whole matter of why Magnifico needed to take a big wish+the memories associated with it. No wonder people think the film was written by AI at times because of all the overlooked details.>Why do wishes being given up require memories?>Why is inspiring others a bad thing when the man himself is inspiring others to join his utopian kingdom?>What are the dangers of granting the more fantastical wishes?Shit is just baffling how nobody on the writing team thought out these crucial details so the plot actually had a convincing driving force. As it is, Magnico just spergs out, Asha decides to go behind his back, and Magnifico screws himself over by using dark magic, which itself didn't seem to change him much beyond him hounding Asha and friends.
>>152773580This looks like AI. I know it isn't, but it looks really generic, like an AI trying to predict what an animated movie looks like.
>>152781809>>152782022>>152782057>>152782120>>152782341Ultimately the real problem with Wish is that its central conflict between protagonist and antagonist could be solved by debating the merits and flaws of the system versus changes proposed.
>>152782752Pretty much. It's such a non-issue "conflict", way more than any other Disney film ever made. They just needed to actually talk out the pros and cons, but instead Magnifico chimps out about "muh revolution" concerns, and Asha acts like the man is eating babies to keep himself strong.
>>152782398Should have been Eisner.
>>152782772If the movie started with a prophecy of Magnifico being overthrown by his own people, it could have worked. He needed something to justify his paranoia and that would suffice.
>>152782919No, Magnifico's home country overthrown by a popular uprising only for things to turn out worse.
>>152782919>>152783138Could probably be something in the middle, like it was a prophecy that did in his homeland, and he fears what will happen to the kingdom because he truly believes he's made THE most free place for people to live in, all for a simple and harmless cost.
>>152783459
>>152781399Wish is really forgettable and it's really embarrassing for Disney as their 100th anniversary filmChicken Little was their first CGI movie and it's so bad made them buy Pixar.I'm gonna say Chicken Little because I remember how bad it is
>>152783549Wasn't that Dinosaurs?
>>152778514Wokeness ruins everything
>>152783549Chicken Little made me chuckle a little. I had to turn off Wish in less than five minutes because of how predictable (cringe) it was. It's the pinnacle if Disney's wokeness. All the males are white and all the females are ambiguous at most. The heroine is a strong, lgbtqia+ Black latinx with ethnically African hair. She's best friends with a fat crippled Asian girl in glasses. Everything is perfect, nobody pays rent or taxes, people live to over 100 years of age, nobody wants anything risky. The heroine doesn't want anything for herself because that would be selfish. She can't have any flaws because she's repping for queer WoC. She just wants what's best for her community, not her family because some families suck but communities are always good.
>>152783483Pretty sure that was a prophecy that only came to because the grandmother was a retard who didn't realize she shouldn't be expecting her grandkids to always have a special power. With Wish, it could have been Magnifico thinking he's covered all the bases to ensure his kingdom doesn't fall, overlooking and overthinking the nature of wishes.
>>152783766While I know some people are divided on the jokes, Chicken Little would have been greatly improved if they had just been more clear about what the fuck the dad's problem was. His dialogue kept flip flopping between him seemingly fearing for Little's safety, and then being outright ashamed of his own child. If they had just picked a lane, I think that would have massively improved the film and made the resolution when they reconcile feel more earned.
>>152781399Chicken Little had at least one kickass opening song going for it>>152782440His own power. If he had been exploiting the star, that would ALSO had made more sense.
>>152784550Magnifico's power should have came from consuming wishes. It's the only decent reason to why he literally takes them in the first place.
>>152784603That or the evil magic requires wishes, destroying them each time he uses a spell, thus making it have a more costly effect other than an incredibly vague corruption that barely seemed to be there.
>>152781399Chicken Little at least had that kino movie scene at the end>ain't no mountain high enough, ain't no valley low
>>152755707Sorry anon, that Wish seems like it could be a bit dangerous.
>>152781232Same reason show producers "forget"(give up) the stories they sell to studios if said story can't be produced. It takes so much money to buy back you might as well move on.
>>152785940That analogy doesn't translate well. You don't forget your story or idea. You sold the rights to it and knowing it is your fault hurts. You can't forget something that close to your heart.Pixar has already told similar stories about dreams. Lightning wanted to represent Dinoco but settled for Rust-eeze, Remy did get to work in Gusteau's restaurant but wasn't able to balance his life until he began cooking at his own bistro, and Mike didn't become a scarer but he was still involved in scaring. Dreams are like clouds- they move and change form over time. What you thought was a rabbit is now a duck.>>152785915It was a mistake giving a physical form to wishes. It's an abstract idea. They're an expression of the heart. I gotta ask- why are wishes important? That question should guide the story.
>>152786610>It was a mistake giving a physical form to wishes.I take that back. The movie didn't stink because of that. As far as depicting wishes in physical form, it had the right idea. Wishes are optimistic visions of a future that may or may not be grounded in reality. To me, they're as common as pennies. You can make so many wishes. But a dream is your main wish. It comes from the deepest parts of the heart. Cinderella knows this shit.Lee picked the concept of wishing without having anything to say beyond a hippie sentiment we're all stardust. Ok, sure, but what's special about stardust? Wishes are desires. Should the story have examined wishes as motivation? We wish because we want something we think is better, an improvement.Why didn't Asha just go around telling people Magnifico was hoarding wishes? I honestly don't think they'd care because they trust him. And yeah, given how much he provides, Magnifico is worth trusting. It really doesn't make sense why Asha would give a shit about somebody else's wish they agreed to add to the lottery.
I LET YOU JANNY FOR FREE AND I DONT EVEN PAY YOU CENTS
>>152786610>>152787223I was gonna say, We're Back had a pretty fun idea of depicting wishes (granted they were just visualizations rather than actual embodiments, but you get the point). But we know that the Mouse is too fucking lazy to animate images on the wish balls even though they have the money and manpower to easily do it. Wouldn't even have to be shown all the time, just have the wish visualize when it's held close or something. But yea, they really didn't think anything through. The wishes could have easily have just been "favors" and Magnifico was playing favorites with people who either bribed or stroked his ego more than others and you'd have roughly the same film.
>>152787418AND THESE ARE THE (YOU)S I GET?
>>152787473Then it would just be a question of whether Magnifico's corruption is worth a coup. It isn't, but Asha is progressively retarded.The story should have been canned, not just revised. Asha is shit. What's there to say about wishes that hasn't already been done a thousand times? Is it better to wish and be disappointed when they never come true, or be content with your lot in life?
>>152787565Or they stuck to the original premise of handsome star prince or whatever love story. But god forbid a modern Disney princess be in a normal hetero relationship because that's not "stronk" enough for the female writers.
>>152787223>a hippie sentiment we're all stardust. Ok, sure, but what's special about stardust?This. Right here. That's the thing about the movie that makes it not work. It's got a big song about the nature of life, the Universe, and everything - the Disney monomyth version of Moses and the burning bush - and it's ... a mid-ass song about paper-thin sentimentality?This should be the most important part of the movie! It's the moment that contextualizes what a Disney princess is, what Disney magic is. It's a religious epiphany handed down directly by an angelic force in a miraculous display of unparalleled supernatural providence!But instead, it's ... a pep talk, basically. What an absolute let-down. No wonder the conflict for the rest of Wish turned out ass: this scene shows they didn't know why you should care in the first place.
>>152785940Rather than being IP, it might be more fitting to look at it as trading in the dream of working for Disney for the reality of working for Disney. A pretty good deal, if mundane by comparison, let go of your power fantasy and do your part for the utopia, and there’s a chance the king will someday grant your wish.Unfortunately this movie had like no stakes for anyone regardless of what they were going for with the concept.
>>152759750Anon he kept innocent wishes from people with the excuse he's only keeping the bad ones.
>>152788409did you miss the part where he granted wishes in the movie before his crashout? if anything asha was being a selfish cunt for expecting a wish for someone who is ONE HUNDRED FUCKING YEARS OLD, also he never forced anyone to take that deal in the first place.
>>152787565this is how I would fix the movie:>make magifico actually have a point, stating that he doesn't owe anyone anything nor are they forced to give up/let him grant wishes, also some of said wishes should be outright bad as it would be realistic.>have actual consequences for asha for cutting the line/ using the marketable star>have the moral be changed to "if you want something you actually have to work for it rather then depending on some vague mythical figure to do it for you.wow so hard.that's all it needed.
>>152787473Funny thing is they did that with Inside Out but with memories.
>>152755855Unfortunately the lead is the latest Disney princess, and a black woman, so if they bury her it's not a good look. Hell they even still roll out that incredibly unimportant Elaina sometimes. If you go to EPCOT you can still meet Asha, though I'm not sure how busy that even gets. It's kind of weird anyway given she's also the fairy godmother.
>>152759596Lilo and Stitch did cut out its tourism hostility though, which is a shame imo
>>152781809Correct, and it would have been so easy to do. Explain that Magnifico is paranoid about wishes because ambition had destroyed his home once already and he's afraid his people would hurt themselves if their wishes are left unchecked. Asha, on the other hand, can be a rebellious wide-eyed idealist who is appalled by his attitude at first, but gradually learns to understand him and teaches him how to trust his people again. There, you get a sincere happy ending and also a good moral lesson about how different people can find the common ground, learn from each other and improve the lives of those around them.This is a movie that didn't even need villains to work, but no, gotta run it through ChatGPT and focus groups until it because a soulless nonsensical husk.
>>152789194*became
>>152789194I agree with that ending, I would also add another moral about there being no shortcuts and if you want to get a wish you actually have to work to achieve it yourself but it's okay to ask for help from others or something.
>>152788540All the more reason to call Disney lazy fucks if they couldn't be bothered to animate something on the wish balls to help give an idea of what each were. Wouldn't even have to show it for all of them, and could have made the visual more abstract or simple like with hand drawn art, akin to how people would draw their dreams and aspirations as kids.
>>152755870>It has zero presence in the parksThere's Wish music in World of Color at California Adventure, which isn't a lot but I was surprised to hear it. I think the most recent version of World of Color was put together in 2023 so it was before they knew it was going to bomb.
>>152788704Probably because it would be "fat shaming", and we can't have that in modern media because fat people are "healthy" despite looking like tubs of lard with a life expectancy of 32
>>152790185>World of Color at California AdventureLmao I'm not surprised at allThat name, I'll be damned, can't stop laughing
>>152790185I think Asha has (had?) an epcot meet and greet too
>>152789194Seriously. and if they absolutely felt the need for a villain, then just have the book be the villain. Maybe it was alive and basically like the one from that Carebears Movie, except this time it found a guy who has insane magical power. Just don't have Magnifico get punished for being a prick, he apologizes, burns the book or seals it deep beneath his castle, and boom! Happy ending as mentioned with Magnifico and Asha working together to grant the wishes of more people while filtering the truly dangerous ones.
>>152757362You're absolutely right BUT had they actually hired him for this movie the songs wouldn't have been this level of terrible
>>152790480No surprise there, they've got actors for just about every character under the sun. It's probably the one thing Disney really excels at since it was Walt himself who pushed for the idea of the characters acting as real as possible, hence the strict rules when engaging with parkgoers.Now if only they could extend that demand for quality to their fucking movies and shows like they used to...
>>152790414I thought he was talking about “Hey you! Speak english?!” Guy. They kept the fat shaming.
>>152790771Weird, would think they'd take it out because of "muh body positivity" shit. Not even sure how someone asking a person to speak English is such a big deal. It's rude, sure, but isn't exactly racist or anything, especially when it's being asked in a US state of all places.
>>152791284The scene in question:https://youtu.be/7L2ZY9UFj60?si=3CViRpKGxO4VhEyE
>>152791394Crazy how that looks like it's just missing the colors. So many times these animatics are rough, missing frames, and sometimes just bordeline slideshows.
>>152792584This one was cut very late into production because of 9/11
>>152792660I thought that was just the ending sequence with the ship chase, or were they worried about people panicking over the siren?
>>152792956Yeah, nobody in the summer of 2002 wanted to see a kid in a disney movie pull a prank with an emergency alarm. We were all really on edge for a while.
>>152792660I thought it was more about preventing copycats and the scene deleted due to September 11 attacks was the alien spaceship chase was going to be through Honolulu. The shot where the ship is flying sideways and hits the ice cream the fat tourist is holding was supposed to be between skyscrapers. Any flying vessel getting that close to skyscrapers was a no-go during that time.
>>152793255I mean, some people wouldn't have minded, especially since it was just a false alarm (heh) and not anything to do with planes
>>152793539I think with the tourism hostility stuff it's way too easy to wind up alienating your audience.
>>152793572Perhaps, would have probably made sense to people who can take a joke and go "yea, some Americans can be really dense", especially since Lilo wasn't bothered by the concept of tourists, she was just annoyed by their attitude and treatment of her and other Hawaiians.
>>152793619You gotta deal with context though. It's hard to call out rudeness when your MC is Lilo.
the love duet being re-tooled to being sung by asha and magnifico about what are essentially glowy magical balls was a weird choice>If happiness was a tangible thing>It would be you>If you'd have told me the feeling you'd bring>I'd think it untrue>And people search for a wonder like you>All of their lives>You still amaze me after all this time>If someone tried to hurt you, I don't>See how that could happen>I'd fight for you in ways you can't imaginethis isn't how you sing about an abstract concept
>>152789194And honestly, even the wishes that "you have to work for yourself to achieve," they can even show him cheating his own system a bit. Like the chick who wants to be a baker, instead of just going "bibadi babadi boo you're a baker Harry," maybe have her suddenly get an apprenticeship at a local/famous baker, with Magnifico implying he may have pulled a few strings to give her the tools and opportunity she needs to make her wish come true herself.God this movie could have legitimately been good despite all the rewrites.
>>152794859>Magnifico bullshits some wishes, making them seem like they're being granted when in fact he just made arrangements behind the scenes>Asha is first disheartened by it, but slowly sees the charm because rather than wasting magic on things people could do entirely by themselves, Magnifico is still engaging with his people while only using magic on the more complex wishes (someone wanting to fly for a day, have it rain chocolate, etc), all while locking up the bad wishes that would harm others or possibly lead to the kingdom falling into anarchySeriously, most of us probably didn't even take any courses in school for writing, and yet we're coming up with better plot twists and character arcs in less than even a fraction of the script's word count.
>>152795203>Seriously, most of us probably didn't even take any courses in school for writingHonestly? I think that's the whole point. Maybe it still has to do with that writer's strike back in the day, they just get kids straight from college. Most crap these days follows some kind of formula and falls short of being entertaining. "But where is the TWEEST? What's the character arc? Is this character relatable? Where does this character's story end???" when the real question should be "What would make this fun to watch, what does the audience want?". Like how recently some anon said in business colleges the first thing they "teach" is "People Don't Know What They Want!" and, well... look how the entertainment industry is doing.
>>152795664Yea, it's sad how trash modern education is, especially with writing where people are just thinking everything needs to have a major twist. A good twist is something that comes naturally in a story, not something that happens because "be you didn't expect the mentor to be a genocidal maniac, huh?"
>>152787473A shame that Ambilantion failed so hard with 3 films that while gorgeousnly animated to rival Disney, they sadly didn't have good stories, Balto seems good until you realized it's based on falsehoods, even the 2D animated films DreamWorks did didn't looked the same, and only Prince of Egypt and Dorado were good, but the visual art style of those surely was off putting to say at least.
>>152795856Wish didn't even have a twist because of themarketing, unless you count the Queen backstabbing her husband.I believe straightforward stories are fine as long as they are told well. Wokeness tends to ruin the heart of the story and Wish is exhibit a. Lee refused to give Asha magic or royalty because she wanted to show an ordinary girl be a hero. Unfortunately she forgot that ordinary people don't rise to heroism.I just want to know what can be said about wishes.
>>152796019>Unfortunately she forgot that ordinary people don't rise to heroism.I mean, in fiction they can. Too bad the "conflict" of Wish is such a nonissue that it feels like they wrote out the general plot and then forgot that there actually needs to be a legitimate conflict to drive the plot. As it is, the whole thing is like a saturday morning cartoon show plot>On today's episode, Magnifico and Asha have a mild disagreement and hijinks ensue!And that's saying something when plenty of cartoon shows had plots that could, in theory, be stretched into a feature length story because the writers knew how to make a conflict and resolution within a third of the time of an animated film.
>>152761673Same with Princess and the Frog, and that ended up being probably my favorite "take an old classic and race-swap it" movie of all time, since they actually DID something with the change by setting it in New Orleans and being all bayou/creole stuff without having to resort low-effort shit like leaning heavily into racism or whatever. Plus the music, villain, and characters still had that "Disney Magic".I think I might've tossed ideas like this out in the past in way more detail, but the best way to do a Princess and the Pea movie would probably be to have her sensitivity be borderline magic and that feeling the pea through 9999999 mattresses is just how she finds out about having that power.Knowing where shit's hiding, knowing that THAT guy has a knife in his pocket, finding the needle in a haystack in 2 seconds, counting the number of jewels on the king's crown for fun from the opposite side of the kingdom (until one day there's nothing to count because someone stole it. PLOT HOOK!)Maybe she "feels" the wind and hops off a cliff only to float back up safely on a gust that wasn't there before? Maybe she "feels" weak points in people's stances or their armor and becomes really good at disarming them? Maybe she becomes a really good pickpocket?Hell, maybe the "pea" isn't a pea and it's an alien hiding under the mattress of some young girl whose dad CALLS her Princess, and the alien is a race that needs the help of a "Hoo-mah'n" (race of giants) and ends up thinking "human" is the same thing, so he abducts her and takes her to his planet, where the "Kha'reene" race are slowly destroying the "Per'atan'ghekhakkkkk'lorz" race (she calls them "peas")There's at least one "creamed peas" joke.There's a lot of ways to stretch and bend the concept to make a movie, but I can't imagine 20XX Disney could even begin to try, they'd just shit it up somehow and half the cast would brag on Bluesky about how honored they are to have their race/sexuality represented.
>>152762409Funnier when you remember that the toys all sold like shit too, meaning they probably ate a good amount of money with the toy flop too, store shelves packed for all of eternity. A local grocery store was selling the big not-Luma toy literally a week ago for like $3, and even the goat showed up there a few months back for about the same price.
>>152780734Kekerino
>>152796280>without having to resort low-effort shit like leaning heavily into racism or whateverIt's funny since the film did have a lot of backlash early on. If I remember right, Tiana was meant to be a chambermaid or whatever originally, not a waitress, but people at Disney worried it might be seen as racist given they had apparently committed to the era of early 20th century America. While I don't think it would have necessarily been racist if Tiana had a humbler job before her restaurant ambition, it is certainly great that they didn't even make a big deal about the character races. Probably the best example was Lottie and her father, both rich white people, yet they never say or do anything to belittle Tiana. Sad to think that if they ever do remake that film in live-action, they probably would turn Lottie and her dad into the most cartoonish bigots imaginable.
>>152796158I don't know if an NPC can be a hero. Aladdin was the "diamond in the rough" who could safely enter the Cave of Wonders. Aladdin naturally had characteristics of a hero. Meanwhile, Asha, does not. She won by being more popular than Magnifico.
>>152797219Well yea, Al had the traits to become a hero while Asha was only protagonist by name. That's why I said you can have the ordinary person rise up and assume the role of hero, provided there's at least adequate reason to. But as we've discussed Asha "rises" simply because she decided that Magnifico's a doodyhead for not granting the wish of a man who could be dead before his ambitions even see tangible results.
>>152796473Setting aside the issues of historical realism regarding as story involving magic and talking animals, at the very base level the question needs to be asked "how does including historical racial attitudes improve the film?" The real estate agents she's dealing with jerking her around because she's black? Sure, they're antagonistic already. Big Daddy La Bouff espousing a genteel paternalism towards Tiana? Could work if you make it the other side of the coin to his coddling and spoiling Lottie rather than malice. Tiana's mom getting beaten in the street because someone thought she was an uppity negress? That shit don't fly.
>>152795928>only Prince of Egypt and Dorado were good, but the visual art style of those surely was off putting to say at least.WutAlso, Anastasia was neat.>>152796473>the film did have a lot of backlash early onI vaguely recall hearing it was gonna be called "The Frog Princess" or something like that, and it was somehow deemed racist.
>>152761684That's like, your opinion, man.It's boring and predictable. They didn't take any risks to make it interesting, there's no bite to it
We need more footage of himbo King Magnifico bottoming.>>152755707CARLOS!This was good for once.>>152756104It is even funnier that the whole twist villain started with Hans, given how terribly executed his plan was, that you can honestly believe that the trolls cast a spell on him.He could have killed Elsa with the chandelier; tell Anna that their kiss didn't work because their love was rushed and still convince her to marry him on her deathbed.
>>152799188Can we please admit Frozen was actually bad and yes, early woke?
>>152798136Anastasia was Fox you dumbass, and it was baaaaaaaaad.
