Will Lucy show up in the new comic?
What comic?
>>152761700The new Ben 10 comic by Dynamite
>>152761519I certainly hope so.She\s fun.
Incog, I know you are reading this fucking threadyour obsession with swinging ruined the comic.
>>152762215I am surprised how apparently casual and meaningless the sex ended up being as the comic went on. It initially seemed like they may have really had a thing for each other. Like romantic feelings building. But then it didn't really seem to matter anymore. I wonder what caused that shift.
>>152761519If the comic goes on long enough, we might see her in a cameo, though I doubt it. At best maybe AF S1 characters.
Character growth.
>>152763245Omniverse was so weird it really felt like they just wanted to do a continuation of classic Ben ten but just did a weird in-between of young Ben and teenager Ben while dumbing down and dematurising teenage Ben.
>>152761519Probably not, she was extended family, one of the more extraneous characters.
>>152763992>off modelI can't see a difference, desu.
>>152761519I hope so. It would be fun.
What do you think about this dynamic?
>>152765197Remove SHITvin 11.
>>152765230>complaining about Kevin in the group but not Charmcaster
>>152765197Ben and Gwen should be the same age
Left or right art direction?
>>152765390Left
>>152765363>>152765197Swap Gwen and Charmcaster's ages. Charmcaster should be the older girl who breaks her ass sacrificing everything to learn magic just to be shown up by a younger noob who picked it up as a hobby.>>152765390Left would have made UA far more enjoyable.
>>152765236But Charmcaster is cute.
>>152765390Some more.
>>152765475
>>152765490
>>152765197What would be Lucy's new role?
>>152765197Kino
>>152761519Yeah but because of the woke xeno lovers, they'll replace Sludgepuppy with "terrain polymorphs"
>>152762215>>152762414Yeah really first few scenes were hot especially because it made gwen a cute horny nerd and liked ben teasing her about it and taking advantage after they started. Pretty hot concept funniest scene was the cereal bowl oneI think instead should have made it ben harem as it's obviously what incog wanted. That or as anon said lean into building crush or dynamic, feels like the intro dynamic is completely gone and they are just two sex pest getting into sheningans not bad but far from first part. Still great comic and in style so extra kino but did take a interesting turn but hey beggers can't be choosers.
>>152765236Kevin broke incestfags so badly some can't get over it 20 fucking years later.
>>152764095as a uaf hater this pleases me
Has Gwen ever been carried over the shoulder in any of the shows? She got kidnapped that way in the flash game Ben to the Rescue on the old Cartoon Network website. That was a formative memory in my childhood. Seeing how a girl can be carried in a way that brings most of the attention to her butt awakened something in me.
>>152765197Combine Hope and Gwen into one character and have her be Ben's family friend and classmate
>>152766166And have Kevin fuck her anyway.
>>152761519Ben and Lucy is under rated, seriously go back and rematch her episodes and look at how she looks at Ben all the time.Terra Strong was kissing the wrong cousin.
>>152765197Why people want to ship Charmcaster and Ben together?
>>152766170With the Gwen/Hope character being the same age as young Ben here while Kevin is still aged up
>>152765197>>152765363>>152765424>>152766166>>152766190Honestly been seeing after 2016 version people pushing for charmcaster being officially added to the Ben "Roster/bowl". I usually don't care but she super cute here and kind of fun au doing something different plus come on a knight and his lil witch bestie>>152765416Yeah this would be peak and somewhat canon also wish/hope the bring this back in revival comic. I really don't like the alien thing but it's great to add to the whole "prodigy" vibe gwen had and how unloved charm was by magic and her own uncle.
>>152766190She's the cutest Ben 10 girl in all iterations, and the most reoccurring female antagonist. In fact, they specifically nerfed Gwen (block chin, triangle boobs) while still keeping Charmcaster attractive. Even the design notes say she's the "attractive" one.
>>152766190Yeah I don't get it. Unironically, Charmcaster x Gwen works better.
>>152765416>Left would have made UA far more enjoyableIve actually come to prefer the art style changes over the years. Keeps things visually fresh and Gwen's looks dont bother me at the slightest as I never found her OS design particularly engaging and I liked the school girl look it made sense for her character. >>152766190Its unitonically the most logical thing you could do meta wise if you pair Gwen up with Kevin. They only problem it has is the age gap would could all too easily be fixed in a reboot.
>>152766190Good contrasts
>>152766328Its Bwen without the mental gymnastics.
>>152766344It's Bwen without the interactions and chemistry
>>152766243
>>152766190Ben with Gwen's original nemesis and Gwen with Ben's original nemesis. It would be perfectly balanced.>>152766344>Its Bwen without the mental gymnastics.Gwen and Charmcaster don't really have much in common other then using magic, I don't think Ben would date her for any Freudian reason.
>>152766407>Ben's original nemesisThat's Vilgax. Time to ship Vilgax x Gwen.
>>152766363>>152766344Case in point.
>>152766431Which case is proving which point?
>>152766419Ben and Kevin were personal enemies. Vilgax just wanted the Omnitrix and couldn't careless about Ben.When Kevin and Vilgax team up, Vilgax is opportunistic while Kevin joins forces to get revenge.
>>152766440That you're retarded if you don't think Charmcaster and Ben wouldn't be what incestfags think Ben and Gwen is.
>>152766452By the time of Secret of the Omnitrix and even more in the sequels, Vilgax already has a burning hatred towards Ben.
>>152766464What moments do they have together? They don't give a shit about each other. Charmcaster has more going on with Kevin.
>>152766186I mean, she was a little too excited to dance with Ben. He honestly fumbled by not marrying the shape shifting alien. He could have fucked anyone by marrying her. Julie, Gwen, Charmcaster, and not just the women in his life but the men and the childr...Ben should have followed max's example and just fucked the alien.
>>152766367Also find it funny they de aged charmcaster in the omiverse series she felt much more mature in AF but then years later looks somehow closer to og design
>>152765236NTA, but I'm honestly more forgiving of Charmcaster. While she did attack and fight Ben and Gwen, it never really felt personal; she fought them more because she had to (they got in the way). She was still a villain, but not as bad as Hex, and you never got the impression she necessarily wanted them dead, just that they'd fuck off and let her do her thing.Kevin is the opposite. Kevin was a kid with a sympathetic origin, but proved in his debut episode that he was really just waiting for the means to act out his sociopathic fantasies. Kevin turning into a literal monster in his next appearance was just his outside changing to reflect what he was on the inside. Every time he appeared, he was given an opportunity to reform or redeem himself; instead, he got worse, hurt more people, and genuinely wanted to murder Ben, his grandpa, and Gwen (mainly Ben, though). Him showing up in Alien Force and just immediately becoming buddy buddy with the main characters despite all the wicked shit he did was beyond stupid. The series eventually tried to backpedal and have Ben try to kill Kevin, but it was too little too late, and ended up feeling painfully forced as a result.It's telling that the reboot cartoon drastically toned down Kevin; not just because of standards and practices I'm sure, but because the original was an unrepentant monster.
>>152766493Did they ever give a actual reason for why they decided to have Kevin turn good in Alien Force?
>>152766493>Him showing up in Alien Force and just immediately becoming buddy buddyWatching Alien force directly after the original gives me insane whiplash. Kevin did a 180 off screen, yet barely anyone cares. I don't even hate Kevin, I just think his development was half baked. The Highbreeds got more backstory then Kevin did. Perhaps some prologue or flashback episodes would have helped Kevin's character a lot.
>>152765230>>152765363>>152765416>>152765641>>152766166>>152766241i know the author and ill tell him that you, very bad people, suggested very bad ideas
>>152766626does your dad also own microsoft?
>>152766638nah but last time i already ratted you out guyshes russian
>>152765197>kevin elevenrarted
>>152765390left: soullessright: soulful
>>152761519>Hard ten limit>Max's vestWhat else do you think they'll use or hope they use from the reboot? I can't imagine them using the antitrix, but I wouldn't mind good guy phil again.
>>152766719i hate antitrix and i hope they wont bring it, i want albedo and i dont care that i need to wait for a decade to see him
>>152762215isnt that guy in prison now?website taken down and they were investigating for pdf
>>152766626
>>152765390Alien Force is everything wrong with mid-2010 action cartoons. The less like that the better
>>152766485>and the childr...
>>152766603Because he was like the rowdy ruff boys to ppg, even though he's only in like what 4 eps he's a massive fan favorite. Mostly because people sleep on it but kids having rivals their same age or around their same age is always interesting to young fans.It's honestly hilarious how little he appears in OS but he had a strong presence>>152766611Older kevin is one of my fave characters but this is true he really felt like just a different guy. An feels like he is only kevin in name he's more of a loveable bastard. While young kevin was that schizo poor kid that would take you to see a dead body or played to rough. He was itching for ways to vent his issues and only focused on his worst tendencies. Him suddenly being more wise and learned worldy crook just doesn't fit him at all. Especially since last time we saw him was the null void and literally trying to help end the world that's a bit more than just being a Chunibyo
>>152761519I like the edit of this pic where they're left to play outside on laundry day
>>152766881Post it
>>152763245I do like Omniverse's 11-year-old Gwen design but the art style and character design of OS 10-year-old Gwen is still just superior.
>>152766835>even though he's only in like what 4 eps he's a massive fan favoriteHe shows up almost as much as Vilgax. The original series was not big on recurring characters.
>>152765197Would be based if Hope starts of good and ends up going evil or she's a enemy agent that later becomes good. I just want hope to have a bit of moral complexity since she is the charmcaster stand in
>>152763245>OV>Not flat>No jaundiceNot quite my tempo.
>>152765390The brighter colors do improve Gwen's look but the design is still bland compared to her OS character design. I'd prefer something that looks more like an aged up version of her OS design. Also not a big fan of the lips (even though I didn't have any problems with it in the OS adult Gwen design).
>>152767040That design looks boring though.
>>152766835>this is true he really felt like just a different guy.Knew a dude who worked on the show. He was a different Kevin. You can read McDuffies original treatment on it but long story short Kevin was going to get split off from the monster he became in the OS via Ghostfreak fuckary which is why Kevin in save the last dance comments he "never liked that guy." Despite never seeing ghostfreak. Cartoon Network was cool with it until they weren't all of a sudden and they had to double back and jury rig Kevin's redemption an early arc was going to be Ben vs what would become Kevin 11k.>>152767040Beyond feeling that pink suited Gwen better and made her pop more, Kevin's electrical powers were going to play a larger role and you can't have two character shooting blue. Visually Glenn liked Gwen's Ben 10K design, hence the long hair, lips and more defined chin.
>>152767104>Beyond feeling that pink suited Gwen better and made her pop moreIt doesn't and Duncan Rouleau agrees with me.>Kevin's electrical powers were going to play a larger role and you can't have two character shooting blueKevin's transformations were generally more gray and dark blue while Gwen's magic was light blue.>Visually Glenn liked Gwen's Ben 10K design, hence the long hair, lips and more defined chin.You're talking about the 42-year-old Gwen design which I'm not a fan of. I like the 30-year-old Gwen design.
>>152767154I never said I liked the pink but frankly I think you're a faggot for caring this much. Just figured id give you some insight. Its really not that big of a deal.
>>152766626>>152766648Could you ask him to draw Charmcaster barefoot and 9 months pregnant with Ben holding her as her water breaks (which she looks embarrassed about). If that's not too much to ask?
>>152766304>The only problem it has is the age gapIt's a feature, not a flaw. Real men don't let cartoon women follow age of consent laws.
I want to fuck Gwen
>>152767258Real men know when to keep their obvious fetishes at bay for solid coherent storytelling.
>>152761519>Will Lucy show up in the new comic?MoA said they're pulling a lot out from all over the series and Lucy is pretty disproportionately popular aaannndd her sludgepupper self could lead to some cool visuals as the comic wants to go a darker tone. I'd put her on Coopers level for returning.
>>152767289Lucy but with a "The Thing" style introduction would be amazing.
>>152767295MGE brother
>>152767409It would be funny if Lucy pranked them like that having only seen human horror movies as a reference and she was bored.
>under 2 months away until the comic is outI hope it's not shit
Will Lucy vore Ben and Gwen?
>>152766190Self-inserting man, it's always just self-inserting.
>>152767272Based
what aliens will they showcase in the first issue?
>>152770694
Is there anything good with the reboot show from a few years ago?
>>152770780
Here come the pedophiles again>b-b-but it's just a drawinga drawing of what again?
>>152767213You can give insight and I can still say why I dislike it. And I think you're a faggot for pretending to take an indifferent stance while saying nobody should care.
>>152765197Cool designs.Why are Ben and Hope kids while Kevin and Gwen are adults (older teens?).
>>152771116because the artist has taste
>>152771068A drawing of a murder is a murder!!
>>152765197fun fact: gwen has older sister complex, constantly worrying over benlive with it
>>152771084
>>152771138There is no good taste without Ben and Gwen being the same age.
>>152771200
>>152766966But vilgax makes more since he was a over arching villian for like all of S1 then the forever knights. Kevin was more just a villain of week like animo>>152767104Huh weird Idk would need to see proof but sounds like a lot for the concept. Though makes a bit more sense if that was why new kevin was so under powered as well. Like literally dude went from hacking the omnitrix and becoming a vilgax tier brute to absorbing metal and rock. Though cartoon network fucking over crew isn't unheard of based on the childish ben stuff and other things I've heard they had to deal with from execs>>152767154>40s GwenCan we talk about this!!! I swear xitter has had a recent push for older gwen and they are pushing ponytail gwen hard. But lowkey she is like AF gwen to me not ugly but just ok like to basic she could almost be any girl. But 30s gwen had a fun vibe loved the witch/ninja vibe I felt as a kid loved gwen's design more than older ben as a kid because she had styleThen they drop that for a very basic school girl outfit in both AF and Omni, like not even themed after lucky girl designs until super late in omni verse
>>152770694>>152770780>>152770888>>152771084>>152771200>>152771283Honestly I think ben can be cute too though wish people could accepted more boyishly cute than just putting him in dresses. Though sometimes it's pretty hilarious or cute, especially when he's dressed as/pretending to be gwen but this one>>152770888 Also made me realize Kevin completely lost all his potential to be cute since we all know what older kevin looks like. Because come on imagine gwen or ben doing the treatment to kevin or play on boyishly cute kev 11 dude is much easier to make scenarios for than ben or gwen he was a homeless kid in new york who had gangs of bullies and street toughs after him. Anything could have happened to his ass before he got alien powers
>>152766737He's still publishing, dunno from where exactly, as I just get the new pics on Ex.
>>152766737You'll learn anon many times they are "investigated" is either bs, something else like drugs or fighting like shad, or just nothingburger. As of right now lolisho artist have a lower arrest record (at least for the crime of bad content/nsfw) than even "Bl*cked" artist.
Did people even care about Lucy prior to OV bringing her back (for two episodes)?
>>152771926Someone must've cared, everyone is someone's favorite character, but overall, probably no, she was pretty niche, it was OV that made her more popular.
>>152771926she's a girl and she was fun. Of course she had fans
>>152771963I'm sure she had fans from her one appearance in the OS, it's just kinda hard to notice since anyone who cares about any girl from the OS usually just cares for Gwen.
>>152762446This is way cute
>>152771926Definitely lucy had fanart before Omniverse their was a whole thread like this before where people pitched ideas of how to bring lucy back or add her to the ben 10 squad in a reboot or next summer type OS series. So she has fans just omniverse reminded people she existed
We took 10 year old pussy for granted.
>>152764895cute>>152767040great design>>152769155>>152772432somehow lewd
>Have fresh Ben 10 content coming>People keep trying to force Gwen discussionsIts starting to get kind of sad.
>>152772637That's why there should always be a Gwen thread made separately from general Ben 10 threads.
>>152772637I wanted to talk about lucy and hope/young charmcaster. Also can always be the change you want to be keep on topic anon the rest of us will follow
>>152772894Classic autismo and the overly written dialogue
>>152772637>trying to force Gwen discussionsIt's what people want to talk about
What do you guys think of that shared universe plan that fell apart? Is it for the best that it never happened or would you have been interested? Besides Ben, it was going to be Secret Saturdays (which did happen), Generator Rex (It was going to be the same world originally), and Sym-Bionic Titan. There's also the two (?) attempts at a Gwen spin-off that failed to leave the early planning stages.
>>152772964I feel gwen spin failing was good as we saw they kind of didn't know how to write a older gwen. She really peaked in OS which is sad OS ben is my fave but each series had something fun and new that still kept me watching his growth.Also think only one that wouldn't work is probably Rex as unless it's a prequel or distant future how do you explain evos. I think best route is parallel earths. But god damn the idea of a cool sqaud of them is epic as all these shows were peak in their own respect. Like idk if prefer teen squad or kid squad. as zack and ben have the best kid designs but then rex kid design was meh in 2016 and the sym bionic never had kid designs. But would be a fun movie or limited series for sure. But as a official verse it'd be so hard to keep continuity with rex but think saturdays would have been great add on as I always hated later series tried to explain away anything mystic or cryptid as muh alien like gwen's magic. So Having Zak canonize the more paranormal to the alien side and gwen handles magic you'd have a honest to god full squad then rex would cover the scientific abomination side as well so all sides of the classic paranormal/unexplained stuff covered
>>152773126>Steven
im happy i finished it haha! i thought i will never nail it, but i did it!
>>152773178I had to put the text, literally almost wanted to edit it but as a artist I felt was to disrespect but why is he even there
>>152773126>I feel gwen spin failing was good as we saw they kind of didn't know how to write a older gwenI dont know how anyone could have this take after ov.
>>152773499Because her design was shit and they literally wrote her out of the squad for like a season or 2 and she came back sparingly. It means they literally didn't know what to do with her outside of short burst
>>152773630Its kind of weird bashing sequel series Gwen for "not being known what to be done with" to me when I'd argue that is like OS Gwen's entire character.
>>152763245I like both designs and it's a little noticeable that she has a bigger chest in Ben 10 Omnverse, that said, the original series gave us this swimsuit, so, it's better in that aspect.
I see it OP, who's the artist?
>>152763245The only improvement OV has on the OG is the freckles. in everything else, the original is better.
>>152774000Kiryu-Sketchbook. The dude is a massive footfag though.
>>152774038Christ, you weren't lying. His art is good and I'm not anti feet, but man that's a lot.
Isn't it cute how Lucy has joined Gwen into going without socks?
>>152774148imagine the loli yuri
>>152774148most underrated pairing. we needed more episodes with them
>>15277383380% of Gwenfags have never watched the show, so they're just basing that off of their headcanons.
>>152773833What are you talking about OS gwen did a lot and had a very fun character. I mean she introduces the magic section of the show, if anything they tried to lean to her being magic and then dropped it for her being a alien in AF and further. I don't see what was wrong with her OS role she was "big sister" or cousin and also was a bit of a rival to ben. Helped to keep him in line but also to be a partner in crime at times as well. I think she played this role great and becomes a fun side character in her own right.
>>152767272Grandpa Max come on
>>152774038>>152774067Unironically he very much is, but seems he's slowly branching out into different stuff like finally more sexo. Maybe got tired of drawing the same thing for what 5ish years now, but most of his archive is foot stuff
>>152772637Notice the OP choice. It was clear this is more of a Gwen thread. Make a thread with an alien as the OP and it should be easier to actually talk about the show.
>>152774148>Gwen into going without socksIf that's true, it was a missed opportunity to not show Gwen barefoot more in OS.
>>152766493>She was still a villain, but not as bad as HexYeah, and somehow it was Hex who got redeemed (offscreen) while Charmcaster never did. But honestly, if you think about it, even Hex wasn't that bad. Don't get me wrong. He was still pretty bad. He was a ruthless, power-hungry villain who didn't hesitate to hurt children and innocent bystanders in pursuit of his goals. But he wasn't unnecessarily cruel and sadistic. Once he got what he needs, he won't endeavor to cause further harm. Like when he controlled the branches to capture Gwen so he can steal the charm of luck from her. He had a young girl who caused him a lot of trouble restrained upside down before him. She was completely helpless and at his mercy. He could've done a lot worse to her but all he did was take the charm and leave her there tied up suspended upside down. Then in another episode, he grabbed Gwen to take the Keystone of Bezel from her. But after taking her, he realized Charmcaster tricked her and already swiped the keystone from her, so he just let her go. So all in all, OS Hex was a villain, but he wasn't that evil. There were certainly eviler villains who, if they had Gwen in the same situation, probably would've tortured her and/or killed her.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocCAxq7I5C0
>>152773630I don't think they knew how to properly handle any of them as young adults, except maybe Kev who they just turned into a bro who bro'd out all the time. Ben being a bumbling doofus creating like 80% of the problems isn't nearly as funny or endearing when he's older
Idk if what I'm going to say is controversial or if it's the fan consensus; But Vilgax turned to shit after the original series. It really bothered me back in the day. Everything was worse, his voice, his design, his presence...What were they thinking?Also I still don't know if I prefer Blum's version or the Portuguese version. At first it being at a higher pitch bothered me, but it's grown on me after awhile.https://youtu.be/d-k_QlUO9NEhttps://youtu.be/r88YBNvKU-E
just for the sake of it i want to continue seeing yurigax
>>152775798>Idk if what I'm going to say is controversial or if it's the fan consensus; But Vilgax turned to shit after the original seriesThere isn't a colder take dude.
>>152775785I think ben was fine in og AF then in ultimate he became a overgrown brat and even in Omniverse they kept that going on as well. Just doesn't work and somehow even though he is older ben feels much younger than AF benAlso we already talked on kev I do like older kev but he feels so different from classic
Is Vilgax named after Vilgaxia or did he take over it and name it after himself like a fucking narcissist?
>>152773856>>152774019Original Gwen's voice is perfect too. It's amazing how they struck gold on so many different fronts. They must've gotten lucky.
>>152774000How would one access these hidden images? I assume it's stuffed in the metadata?
>>152776307I'd get banned if I told you the website to get it and I'm 90% sure you'd moralfag if I told you where you needed to go to get it.But yes, it using the metadata to add a link to catbox to the image.
>>152776328Well, I understand your apprehension to the jannies. Thank you for what you've provided though, take care.
Thank you very much, have a good day :]
>>152776029DEFINITELY the latter. His kind were called the Chimerans or Chimera Sui Generis, and his warship in the OS was the CHIMERAN Hammer. I guess he'd rename it the Vilgaxian Hammer?
>>152771388>I swear xitter has had a recent push for older gwen and they are pushing ponytail gwen hardThere's just something about it that isn't appealing to me. I think it's the hairline. >But 30s gwen had a fun vibe loved the witch/ninja vibe I felt as a kid loved gwen's design more than older ben as a kid because she had styleSeriously. That design is just perfect (even though I'd prefer her hair to be longer by at least a little bit). They already showed how to make the perfect aged up Gwen design on their first try and the later versions failed to replicate it.
>>152777471Yeah it's the "tight ponytail" it's a well known professional but kind of bad look. Why they always give it to girls to show how pretty the are by taking it off. An lowkey it's real irl remember a nerdy girl that had the tight pony tail then when she put it down she had cute curly hair that complimented her face. Like idk why girls use it it's a terrible hair style it pulls at their head and makes them look older Also yep so weird like not like she's just god awful in others but you hit perfection why not keep the best. Literally just take elements of this one and give to teen gwen but instead they darkened her hair and gave her just long hair. She literally so generic in AF people mention she's basically just atom eve and they do have the similar red head school girl style in some scenes of invinicble
>>152774627You Gwenfags live in a different reality.
>>152777903mold>>152774627GOLD
>>152775785>>152775987It was actually season 3 of AF that turned Ben into an obnoxious nitwit. It's hard to believe the Ben who displayed so much maturity in the Cash and JT episode (or plenty of other good examples like Alone Together or the episode about his date with Julie) turned into that Ben so quickly.
>>152771388>But vilgax makes more since he was a over arching villian for like all of S1 then the forever knights. Kevin was more just a villain of week like animoEven though season 2 didn't quite have an overarching narrative the way season 1 did, it can be argued that Kevin 11 was the main villain of season 2.
>>152765390Why is Alien Force so dark
Gwen Sex
>>152775441Yes.Yes, it is.
>>152766190It would make for an interesting dynamic which if feel could be explored more.Hear me out, Imagine a Ben 10 movie that parodied Lolita with Ben taking the role of Dolores and Charmcaster taking the role of Humbert. This parody would most likely shift its focus, from the early build up to the road trip aspect later in the story. Gwen and Grandpa would be trying to get Ben back throughout the film, It could even end with Ben escaping and living a normal life with his spouse just like Dolores does at the end of Lolita. The two works make for a perfect juxtaposition, which could be used to achieve great comedic effect.Can you honestly say that a Ben 10 parody of Lolita would not be great?
>>152775798Not a controversial opinion. Vilgax was at his most imposing in OS. He really did feel like the biggest threat in the universe.>you had better be very surehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kmAmd0_WN8He got less and less intimidating as the franchise went on. Admittedly, it was exciting to see Vilgax return for the first time in AF, stronger than ever and setting up a direct on-on-one fight with an older, more experienced Ben who can now switch between aliens. Of course, the story needed to create a way to prevent Ben from just going Way Big on his ass.
>>152780509>Can you honestly say that a Ben 10 parody of Lolita would not be great?Yeah. It sounds like it'd be nothing like Ben 10.>which could be used to achieve great comedic effect.Seems like it'd be in poor taste if you're using Lolita.
>>152778772On the beach.
>>152763245>>152773856>she has a bigger chest in Ben 10 OmnverseSometimes they "unintentional" make her boobs more noticeable at some shots, heck you can tell where her nipples are, fucking love it they did that
>>152780509>living a normal life with his spouse just like DoloresDolores dies in childbirth at the age of 17
>>152780962>Heck you even can tell where her nipples are,What can I say, a training bra doesn't help at all
>>152781114She does end up living a normal(ish) life, in the 1962 movie. Its a less depressing ending to her story.
>>152777903Is that not the consenus on gwen's character in OS? also theirs a reason people even outside of /co/ still draw os gwen just aged up. She is the most iconic though would love to see more 30s gwen and love fun re designs but still.>>152778297Again was execs, they basically wanted kid ben and felt kids couldn't relate to a more mature serious ben. So suddenly he had to have the maturity and intellect of a child I actually prefer young ben myself too maybe because we've kind of seen so much older ben and I'm a OSfag I'll admit to it. But even I still loved AF and the great growth of ben early on it truly was night and day as they slowly warped him into Ult and Omni ben who were just innane at times. Like how he treated julie was honestly so annoying, just for them to try and force him and kai together at least julie wasn't a alienfag why did he completely drop and mistreat julie when he was nervous to even talk to and date/freak her out early on. I could see a version of kid ben growing up to be that ben but not after we spent so much time with AF ben and his massive growth arcs and becoming a leader and hero on his own footing without grandpa or asmuth to guide him like before.>>152778338I thought it was the forever knights? also is kevin season 2, felt he was spaced out acrossed the series.But looked it up and guess all of kevin's secondary appearances were in S2 which is craze so can say he was the "soft" main villain of s2 as he just didn't have same build up as the knights or vilgax he very much was just destructive.I feel another ep or two to truly build up and give him screen time and I'd agree but it is just 3 eps of s2 and vilgax kind of punks him during his last dance. But kevin was and always will be a fan favorite why as much as I like AF kevin I want another OS series of them the next summer or something so they can just drop some Later ben stuff like kevin not even being a mutant or alien just a experiment makes no sense.
>>152780547>Yeah. It sounds like it'd be nothing like Ben 10.It would feature the characters, who would be getting up to plenty of shenanigans while fighting evil. Is that not what Ben 10 is about?>Seems like it'd be in poor taste if you're using Lolita.The two works make for a perfect juxtaposition. You know, a yin and yang sort of thing? Besides it wouldn't be indecent! It would be highly moral and filled with proper virtues.
>>152781179You american-type with your appy endings!Dolores Haze didn't get a happy ending and she wasn't a seductress.
>>152765390God AF was SO ridiculously dark lmao turn a fucking light on
>>152766186Ben and Lucy should fuck Gwen together
>>152781810keep your degenerate comics to yourself, incog
>>152781686dont forget the several shots where you're just staring at a black screen
>>152780605The eternal debate. What is better, that swimsuit or the other one (>>152773856)?It depends on who you aks, people have different preferences, so, like other things in general, it's going to be an eternal discussion.
Adult Gwen in the classic series was really hot.
>>152774000>>152774038>>152776307>>152776328>>152776360Someody spoonfeed me the working catbox link
>>152782888Literally type in "Kiryu-Sketchbook" and "Gwen_Tennyson."
I love these two
>>152782888checked.>>152782923Is posting links to rule34 websites banned here now or what?
>>152783004Probably not, but everyone already gave out the name of the artist, so it should be easy for you to find.
>>152773220Sweet, I like how you suited him up using his magma stones.
>>152778561Adult Gwendolyn mentoring Ben and Gwen and going on adventures would be a great series.
>>152783555>555It already is, just ask Incog. Also, checked.
I want to shove Ben in a locker and give him an atomic wedgie
>>152784075
>>152765390Wow I can actually see the characters in the left.
>>152780962>>152781127There's nothing better than the natural process of a young girl getting perky tits.
>>152784470SO fucking adorable!!!
>>152783916Once again I'm asking if Gwen has ever been carried over the shoulder in the shows. I remember she got princess carried a lot, especially in OS.
>>152783504>>152785205>jeet sloppa
>>152785205>no touchie booba, plox
>>152774627It's like reading a Sallyfag post.
>10its over
>>152782743The pink one is the best. Green is too plain but she has the best shots in it.
>>152782743I'd go with the pink. I think the little splash of color it has in the middle really helps add some extra interest to things.
>>152781354>I thought it was the forever knights?No, the Forever Knights only appeared once in season 2. In fact, Enoch only appears once each season, and in season 3, that episode was just a cameo at the end revealing he was behind the events of the episode. Completely unimportant to the plot. It could've been any villain and it wouldn't have changed a thing. Season 4 is the only one you can kind of say the overarching antagonist was the Forever Knights, but it's just Enoch being the main antagonist of the first episode which also sets up Driscoll as the Forever King in a short scene at the end. Then Driscoll only appears in the two-part finale (not counting the what-if final episode), which was honestly relatively weak. Secret of the Omnitrix makes for a much better finale and is technically the true finale. If I had to choose an overarching antagonist for season 2, it'd definitely be Kevin. All 3 of his main appearances after his introduction (and his actual Kevin 11 form) was in this season. Then in the season finale, he brings back Vilgax and teams up with him to fight Ben. Even though there isn't an overarching plot tying the episodes together, Kevin being an effective foil to Ben helps the season focus more on Ben's characterization. That's why I think it's important that the climax of the finale is Ben selflessly giving up the omnitrix to save Gwen after Kevin abducted her to hold her hostage.
>>152786694do you think she is an innie or an outie?
>>152786982Ever heard of a paragraph?
>>152782960Based
>>152787249Okay.No, the Forever Knights only appeared once in season 2. In fact, Enoch only appears once each season, and in season 3, that episode was just a cameo at the end revealing he was behind the events of the episode. Completely unimportant to the plot. It could've been any villain and it wouldn't have changed a thing. Season 4 is the only one you can kind of say the overarching antagonist was the Forever Knights, but it's just Enoch being the main antagonist of the first episode which also sets up Driscoll as the Forever King in a short scene at the end. Then Driscoll only appears in the two-part finale (not counting the what-if final episode), which was honestly relatively weak. Secret of the Omnitrix makes for a much better finale and is technically the true finale.If I had to choose an overarching antagonist for season 2, it'd definitely be Kevin. All 3 of his main appearances after his introduction (and his actual Kevin 11 form) was in this season. Then in the season finale, he brings back Vilgax and teams up with him to fight Ben. Even though there isn't an overarching plot tying the episodes together, Kevin being an effective foil to Ben helps the season focus more on Ben's characterization. That's why I think it's important that the climax of the finale is Ben selflessly giving up the omnitrix to save Gwen after Kevin abducted her to hold her hostage.
>>152787185Innie for sure.
>>152787547>>152786982I'm the anon you were originally replying to and this made me chuckle dude If we can read it doesn't matter sure didn't take you much time. But still why even humor them, either way you made some great points guess my OS ep knowledge is lacking did watch the perfect day ep recently and just felt the knights were more overarching guess just never paid attention to episode listing. But really feels like all of them had more episodes than they did, kevin vilgax and the knights. Hope the comics give each of them some love and fun redesigns since seems to be a major thing with this comic.
>>152784075>I want to shove Gwen in a locker and give her an atomic wedgieFTFY
>>152783916>>152784470Is it possible for two characters to have more chemistry then Ben and Gwen? Their love is just so pure, it's almost divine.
>>152783555I'd like to see adult Ben and adult Gwendolyn mentoring Ben and Gwen and going on adventures together. But maybe Ben 10,000 being there would remove all the tension and stakes when he can eliminate any threat immediately.
>>152787627I wasn't talking about her belly button...
>>152788855I know
>>152789364My man
>>152765197the idea of a grown man Kevin having beef with a fucking 10 year old is genuinely funny to me
>>152788265
>>152788265>>152789918Kek. They do have a strong love-hate bond though the Westermarck Effect is probably stronger.
>>152790197>the Westermarck Effect is probably stronger.By the time of the series they are too old for the Westmarck effect to develop. They're 10 years old at the start of the series and due to them not getting along in the first episodes, it is implied this is their first time being together for long periods of time. Having met just before puberty and having already left the stage of their life in which they imprint on family, It is highly likely that they would develop romantic feelings for each other.
>>152788265The appeal is that they bicker and annoy each other but still love each other. That's why all-love couples can't compete.
>>152790251They're 10 yet act like they have been married for 40 years. How cute!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mKrwfR7gaQ
>>152781445>It would feature the characters, who would be getting up to plenty of shenanigans while fighting evil. Is that not what Ben 10 is about?You can't pretend the characters getting up to shenanigans while fighting evil would be the same with the premise of the MC getting groomed a la Lolita. That's not just a detail you can brush off.>The two works make for a perfect juxtaposition. You know, a yin and yang sort of thing? Besides it wouldn't be indecent! It would be highly moral and filled with proper virtues.Handling this topic with care while also using it for comedy is already a very difficult and tricky task. Doing it for a kids show is impossible.
What was he planning to do to her?
>>152791907
>>152791493>>152792734>>152793502A cute! I like her peach-shaped face.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di62qiJbHGI
>>152789019
>>152762215I wish he just wrapped this shitty chapter up and started on the Jade comic already
>>152765197Why is that Charmcaster so cute?
I wonder if girls would like him.
>>152794207
>>152794207Male Charmcaster (Spellcaster(?), Curseslinger(?) ) would be:>angsty>prettyboy>tall>sorceror prince>intelligent and manipulative>tragic villain>hidden nice sideWhat do you think?
>Ben 10 webcomic>same artstyle as OS>but everyone's design is altered/updated>except for Ben
>>152794397
>>152794397>except for BenBen's pants are not that color. Also, Gwen needs to be changed back to light blue.
>>152794313>CurseslingerThat's a really good name, anon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFZS6x412Jc
>>152794662Yeah, but keep the ponytail and socklessness
We'll know when it comes out but anyone else get the feeling the comic's going to disappoint people since it's very much not going to be like the classic continuity? Especially any Reboot influence which is pretty likely.Honestly I'm not sure what would make fans happy beyond returning to it since so much of what they enjoy is that original continuity. Then again, maybe I'm dooming for nothing since this is the first time it's really happening and Reboot's not the best reference for if fans would accept a new Ben 10.
>>152795544I feel like it'll be a decent comic for what it's worth but no where near as successful as they are hoping it to be.Looking back on it, I hardly think it'll meet the standards of most fans given what we've already been given in past stories.But it will be fine.I'm just annoyed at how wonky the art looks so far.The art is NOT bad, just a little awkward in terms of designs and stiffness.They are going for what the Absolute DC comics run managed to do so...it works well enough.Hopefully this will show people that Ben 10 can be more than just a fun kid's series from the 2000s to most people but I won't hold my breath.>ngl some of it looks ai generated but then drawn by a real human>that variant cover with the 'new' omnitrix is just vomit
>>152787627Since she has control of her form, I suppose she made it like that on purpose
>>152796232Maybe you're right and it'll work out decently enough. My concern's because most of what fans seem to like are the product of people like McDuffie and DJW. OS gets praise, sure, but a bunch of Man of Action ideas they wanted like antitrix Kevin aren't popular.
>>152796318I wonder if her human form is formed of like bones and muscle fibers.Or if it's the case that she's all mud on the inside?
>>152794397they likely did not want to do that (why fix what is not broken?) so all they did was an obligatory AU palette swap and the bandage.
>>152761519>>152774148>>152786694>>152787627I'd like to see this design but in OS style. Because to a greater or lesser extent it is different from the one they present >>152789364
>>152778362>>152781686>>152782065Someone on Twitter claimed the other day that AF being so dark is a literal rendering error in whatever broadcast copy they are distributing, the 'unaltered' show is more blue than anythingApparently, someone got their hands on an SD copy of the show and things are actually visibleI can't for the life of me find the tweet now, but since anons are posting Twitter content I wanted to bring it up
>>152761519Man... them changing Lucy's eye color to purple really fucked with her design.
>>152796953I definitely think she's mud inside. Forming anatomically correct innards no one would see seems like a waste of energy.
>>152797268>Someone on Twitter claimed the other day that AF being so dark is a literal rendering errorThats most likely true. If you take any episode from seasons 1-2 and crank up the brightness, saturation and gamma just a bit, its impossible to tell thats not its original look. Backgrounds are visible, characters are clearly defined, its almost like thats what it was intended to look like. Every other piece of media you do this to, will look visibly incorrect.>>152797795As far as design changes in OV, this is the one i mind the least. It makes her look visibly more alien since purple is not a natural human eye color. Plus it is easily explained lore wise by her being able to shape shift and as such she is able to choose her form.
>>152766719Penny (also change her outfit, wtf) since ben seems more bratty. She can whip him into shape. Obviously either shockrock since the fulmini are great or at least gax. I also prefer the reboot version of Michael.
>>152766719I think Vilgax being part of the team who created the Omnitrix could work, as long as they have Myaxx and Albedo be part of it too.
>>152761519Honestly, based on the reactions to the previews of the comic so far, if Lucy did appear, I'd expect more disappointment.
>>152788265I kept seeing these Ben 10 threads so I decided to watch the series. Finishing up the original series and I am confused how the fuck this pairing got so popular. I guess you had to be there because holy fuck their "chemistry" was bland and generic arguing sibling shit.
>>152799836They'll deny it but a lot of Bwen shippers are just people who had a crush on Gwen when they were a kid and self-inserting as Ben
>>152799836>their "chemistry" was bland and generic arguing sibling shit.Some people really like that type of relationship and find it endearing, something about constant bickering yet having each others back deeply appeals to a lot of people. It’s not for everyone, so I understand why you didn’t like it.Bwen shippers are quite a diverse bunch, the ship appeals to many people for many different reasons. This is a bit of a simplification but, I would say there are two primary groups of Bwen shippers aside from all the other small fragmented sects. Those who are projecting their IRL incestuous feelings onto cartoons and those who see how Ben and Gwen work together as a couple irrespective of their shared blood. Personally, I fall into the second group. Something about how Ben and Gwen both got partners at the start of Alien Force and rubbed many the wrong way. I would say how fan shipping was quelled kind of remind me of Siegmund’s and Sieglinde’s relationship in Richard Wagner’s opera, “der Ring des Nibelungen.” They are kin who haven’t seen each other in a long time and when they meet they fall into deep romantic love before being ripped way from each other. In both stories the couple’s relationship is destroyed by the intervention of a higher force, in Wagner’s story Wotan and in Ben 10 by the writers. The show pairing Ben with character he doesn’t care much about or that don’t care much about him like Julie or Kai further reinforces the idea that Gwen was his fated love.>>152801001Ben is far too handsome to self insert as effectively.
The series would have been better if Gwen had the watch or Gwen was a older magician and Ben her young sidekick
>>152801750That's a good explanation but what about Gwen + Grandpa shippers?
>>152801845You mean >>152765197
>>152761519I feel like it's been a mistake to read this without having watched the show because it's just getting more and more tied to the actual plot so when I eventually watch it I'm just gonna be like "oh this is where he fucked her... and there... and there..."
>>152766719Antitrix Kevin, 100%
>>152801845Lucky little bastard.
>>152801845No. Removing Ben's role as the hero is a bad idea. Making Gwen older than Ben is a bad idea.
What would a better heroname for ben 10?iirc some people back in a prior thread had Tenfold and that's about it lol. I had Hero-Man because...idk it sounded good
>>152802713>Hero-Man because...idk it sounded goodIt does not. Here are my terribad suggestions:>Alien Bender>BenSpace>Benteen18>Ben & Gwen &Then
>>152802713The Slur
>>152799526At that point you're adding too much into it, I don't see why Vilgax has to be involved with the Omnitrix's creation, he can just be a bad guy.
>>152766493>but not as bad as Hex,Charmcaster was worse. Unlike Hex, she actually did enjoy tormenting the Tennysons with her tricks, but as soon as she was alone with Gwen, she pulled out the story about her mean old uncle making her do this, playing nice until stealing the Keystone and giving it right to Hex, which in itself was a ploy to take the power of the ritual from him. It didn't feel like rightful retribution, just her being cunning and playing a long game as part of the twist revealing how she's actually a more significant villain who appears in more episodes further on. I think that also fit with Don't Drink the Water where she casually teases Hex as a baby, holding a position of power over him. She also tries to kill Ben and Gwen, unlike Hex, and even succeeded at one point in UA.
>>152797795Her original design was really just a Girl Naruto expy. Makes sense that they would want to redesign Lucy to look more distinct, and being a canon shapeshifter also helps.
>>152802178Man, I know the reboot Kevin was technically closer to the original concept for the character, but what we actually ended up getting became an iconic part of him, just as much as the Omnitrix is for Ben, changing that so he can be a different font of Albedo sucks imo.Also, I really hate the idea of Kevin building his own omnitrix on Earth and also somehow being able to modify the aliens on it, that just tells me that the Omnitrix is either really easy to replicate, or Azmuth is just an idiot.Also also, I have the suspicion they just gave Kevin his own watch and his own unique aliens so they could sell more toys.
>>152766304>They only problem it has is the age gapDidn't stop Charmcaster from sharing a bed with Darkstar.
>>152803125One second they're making out.
>>152766304>Its unitonically the most logical thing you could do meta wise if you pair Gwen up with KevinTo be fair, Charmcaster never got to be properly developed like Kevin, sure she was a rival to Gwen, but she was also a straight up villain from OS to OV.
>>152803156Then the next scene they're in their undies.
>>152803175And Darkstar was around the same age as Ben.
>>152803125Also seduced/kissed Kevin using a disguise, though that was to cast a charm on him. Kevin thought Charmcaster was a babe in her original form, but I don't think she ever showed any genuine interest in him.
>>152803203She was clearly just trying to fuck over Gwen anyway.How much is the age difference anyway? It couldn't be more than like, 5 or 6 years, right?
>>152803203Pic related was the same age as Charmcaster as well. There was also that episode in OV where Charmcaster was trying really hard to win Ben's hand in the Marriage Gameshow, but that episode was a fever dream.
>>152803225>Pic related was the same age as Charmcaster as wellI thought she was 19
>>152761519No
>>152803216Never actually stated apparently.
>>152803216I think she's around 3-5 years older. Probably closer to 4.
>>152803307There's no way OS Charmcaster is 14, 15 or 16 makes more sense.Hell, now that I look at her, I feel like she could as old as 19.
>>152803388Probably her ono screen presence. Her first couple of appearances had her being only a little taller than Gwen.
>>152803453
>>152803467
How did Frightwig make you feel?
>>152803503I'm ashamed to say I never cared for her until her reboot version.
you know remember that Ben supposedly had great magic potential too and Charmcaster was gonna bodyjack him to be a alien transforming magic powered god
>>152803388Pretty sure she's canonically 15 in the OS
>>152803522>Ben supposedly had great magic potential tooNot necessarily, I think she just wanted to mix her magic with his alien powers, at no point Ben was stated to have some innate magic potential like Gwen.Still very fucked up tho, the fact that she was completely willing to basically lose her actual body for power, fucking crazy.>>152803536I can believe that, source on that?
>>152803552>Still very fucked up tho, the fact that she was completely willing to basically lose her actual body for power, fucking crazy.I always felt that plan would've backfired on her if she succeeded. There's no way she'd be happy in Ben's body even if she's momentarily infatuated with whatever power she'd gain
average Bwen shipper
Should Gwen have freckles?
>>152761519
>>152805711are those grey matters goggles imprinted?
>>152805711Stop before you start
>>152805763>StopNo.
>>152805711Top yes, bottom HARD NO
>>152776328>and I'm 90% sure you'd moralfagAh. You are using the pedo site and its Tool.>>152783004>>152783026cpspam. Lurk more.
>>152805822It's either that or ecker and I'm not sending the faggot that runs it a dick pic to actually use his faggy website
Hope is such a baddie.
>>152805991
>>152799836Main Guy/Main Girl pairing, and just the general lack of options in the OS era.
>>152806558
>>152806558Is that commercial responsible for all the Raven x Gwen shipping?>>152806585>redmoaGwen is a brat and should be treated like onehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfjXH33Vk6g
>>152806645Pretty much
>>152805196couldn’t hurt(funny thing, i had a similar concern with her lips)
>>152765197I like Hope being the same age as Ben.
>>152761519I've been planning on binge watching this entire series lately and im on the 3rd season of the original show and so far it's pretty good. I know there is a lot more things after this so in what order am I supposed to watch everything to avoid confusion.
>>152807267Original Show > Alien Force > Ultimate Alien > Omniverse
>>152807267>I know there is a lot more things after this so in what order am I supposed to watch everything to avoid confusion.The order's original, Alien Force, Ultimate Alien, and Omniverse. Be sure to include the movies even the live action ones that are semi-canon. I'm not sure what episodes to slot them between off the top of my head though.You're probably fine watching the episodes in whatever order you're using. The only one to be careful about is Omniverse, look up the production order instead of the airing order. The airing order for OV's a bit screwed up and jumbles story arcs.
>>152803522
>>152807429
>>152807267>>152807360Almost forgot, the only thing you might accidently miss is Heroes United. It happens in the middle of Ultimate Alien but is episode 10/11 of Generator Rex's third season. It's not super important though and don't feel like you need to watch a totally different show.Hopefully that covers everything and isn't too overboard.
>>152807324>>152807360>>152807807Thanks anons
>>152773499>OVYou mean the show that opens on Gwen and Kevin pissing off to collage and only appearing in something like 6-ish episodes
>>152803096>we actually ended up getting became an iconic part of himBut is it really tho, the temu absorbing man bit was just shit when used on anything other than Ben
>>152791725>Doing it for a kids show is impossible.What if it wasn’t for kids? If someone watched Omniverse in 2012 and were 8 years old they would be 22 years old now. Pretty much all Ben 10 fans are adults unless they became fans due to the reboot and even then they would still be teenagers. The reboot aimed at targeting a younger audience, why not try the opposite and make a story aimed at a more mature one?>You can't pretend the characters getting up to shenanigans while fighting evil would be the same with the premise of the MC getting groomed a la Lolita. That's not just a detail you can brush off.You’re right, but my idea wasn’t to brush it off. It was to integrate it into the narrative. >Handling this topic with care while also using it for comedy is already a very difficult and tricky task.Satirising evil is a pretty common media trope, even the movie adaptations of Lolita did this. The “Are you Quilty?”“No, I’m Spartacus! Have you come to free the slaves?”Scene at the start of the 1962 movie comes to mind.>>152781635>You american-type with your appy endings!Dolores Haze didn't get a happy ending and she wasn't a seductress.^I read this in a French accent. You’re right, Delores wasn’t a seductress and I don’t think her being portrayed as such was a good move for the movie adaptation’s. But, the movie adaptation’s of Lolita was what I was basing my Ben 10 idea off, as I believe the lighter and less depressing tone better suites Ben 10 better than the original novel.I think my idea could be quite popular as evident by many of the posts on this thread, such as:>>152807429>>152807439>>152808538If any fan fiction writers see this, feel free to use my idea.
>>152808567>I think my idea could be quite popular as evident by many of the posts on this thread, such as:That's just people who ship Ben with Charmcaster, and I strongly suspect that's your motivation too which defeats the point of what you're proposing.
If the Avatar movie is a success they should make a Ben 10k movie
>>152809124>I strongly suspect that's your motivation tooI actually don’t ship Ben and Charmcaster. I know I used pro Ben x Charmcaster posts to reinforce my belief that there was a strong audience for a Ben 10 Lolita, but that was not in support of a potential relationships between them. It was instead to show that people want to see more content of them interacting together.Ben would escape Charmcaster’s grooming, not succumb to it. If I did ship Ben and Charmcaster and Ben, why would I insist on them not ending up together or refuse to giver her a redemption?Admit it, Benson. The idea is great.
>>152766719Jetray and Slapback.
>>152809976they should make a Ben 10k movieBen 10k, is such an under used aspect of Ben 10, pretty much every Ben 10k appearance outside of OS is bad. If a Ben 10k movie is made I would love to see a scene where Ben and Gwen have hot sweaty sex without a single condom in sight. It would be kino.
>>152810235>I know I used pro Ben x Charmcaster posts to reinforce my belief that there was a strong audience for a Ben 10 Lolita, but that was not in support of a potential relationships between them. It was instead to show that people want to see more content of them interacting together.Still defeats your point to use them as examples when you even admitted yourself that what you're proposing is the opposite of what they want. But let's be frank here. You know why you used them as examples and it's the same reason as>If I did ship Ben and Charmcaster and Ben, why would I insist on them not ending up together or refuse to giver her a redemption?as if there aren't many people who still romanticize Lolita. Intent and themes don't matter when shippers and fetishists have the convenient ability to ignore all of that if it gets in the way. They'll happily take more interactions and interpret it however they want.
>>152802178I feel like kev's mutant aliens would work better in the comic's artstyle than Ben's. He'll, wildvine even looks more like thornblade.>>152810292I know it's because he wasn't in omniverse, but Jeffrey was a uaf alien.
>>152766304>>152803125The biggest problem for Ben x Charmcaster isn't the age gap (if we use UAF or omniverse ages) but that they have no dynamic to speak of, so almost everything about the ship has to be headcanon or made up. Ben x Lucy actually has more to work with.
>>152810470>as if there aren't many people who still romanticize Lolita. Intent and themes don't matter when shippers and fetishists have the convenient ability to ignore all of that if it gets in the way. They'll happily take more interactions and interpret it however they want.Sadly true, but true for most media. “Come and See” is an 1985 soviet film about the horror of war, yet I am sure there are fetishist who’s only take away is finding the scene with the girl bleeding post rape hot. You can make a point incredibly clear, yet it is impossible to force it on a viewer. After all you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make them drink.>Still defeats your point to use them as examples when you even admitted yourself that what you're proposing is the opposite of what they want.Had I not used those examples would my idea have more merit? In hindsight I admit I shouldn’t have use them because it gave off the wrong idea. Which I didn’t intend.Might I ask, what changes would make this pitch acceptable in your eyes? Perhaps shifting the story to more closely follow “The Abduction from the Seraglio” indeed? with Ben being Konstanze, Charmcaster being Belmonte and grandpa being Osmin? But that would require changing who Charmcaster, Grandpa and Ben are as people quite heavily and would become a Ben x Charmcaster shipper’s dream story.
>>152810512But Jeffrey is cool!
>>152767272Have you tried cloning her voice?
Anyone watch that CG movie Ben 10: Destroy All Aliens? How is it? Is it worth it? Seems pretty cool that they revisited OS after UAF (but before Omniverse). They even brought back the OS voice actors.
>>152810653It wasn't my cup of tea, but it's pretty well regarded amongst fans. Some of the scenes are pretty cool, especially the ones with the vulpimancers. If you like it, i suggest you check out race against time aswell. its live action and very cheesy but i have warmed up to it over time. The acting is pretty bad, but the actors do fit their roles quite well. Gwen feels like Gwen and Ben like Ben. I would say its so bad, its good in a way.
>>152810618Teach me how to do that.
>>152803175I find it funny that this isnt brought up more in ben 10 threads. There is a gender bent Ben 10 universe where a 21 year old Cursecaster slept with a 16 year old Michelle Morningstar
>>152810535>but that they have no dynamic to speak ofYou say this like they couldn't make it Bwen without the incest.
>>152761519Find someone who looks at you the same way Lucy looks at Ben. I unironically think Ben/Lucy would mog the shit out of Ben/Gwen if they former had more than 3 episodes together. There is so much you could do with it.
>>152811051Charmcaster's personality isn't anywhere close to Gwen's. Why not just make Ben and Gwen not related instead? It would be easier and would likely be the least controversial change in the series.
>>152811113I know/co/ isnt going to like this opinion but making Ben and Gwen not related to pair them up means destroying a perfectly fine ship in Gwen/Kevin and for what? Its easier to fix the issues Ben and Charmcaster and/or Gwen and Kevin would have then it would be to justify Bwen after almost 20 years.
>>152811097Out of all the OV girls Ben could have ended up with Kai was literally the worse one.>if the former had more than 3 episodes together.I don't know why they brought back a 1 episode unnamed OS character just to barely have her in the series. Massive wasted potential. >I unironically think Ben/Lucy would mog the shit out of Ben/GwenPartially, OS Gwen? Fuck no. Gwen in every other series? Zero diff.
>>152811148If you want to continue the story where Omniverse left off (but before he gets with Kai), than this is a perfectly good take. Charmcaster getting a redemption similar to Kevin could work. Since Omniverse's timeline technically ends with Ben and Kai married, any other ship would require lots of rewriting and retconning the destiny aspect of Ben and Kai out of the show.I suggested Ben and Gwen not being related in a possible series which follows an earlier timeline. Hope, I cleared up any confusion.
>>152811176Lucy zero diffs OS Gwen too. She has the advantage of incest and a personality that actually plays off ben. What she lacks in generic tsundere shit she would make up in fish out of water cuteness.
>>152811406>She has the advantage of incest and a personality that actually plays off ben. Ben and Gwen had perfect contrasting personalities, Ben was crude and rough while Gwen was composed and intellectual. There is no chance they weren't tongue wrestling (extra sloppily) anytime they were alone in the Rustbucket. Also, Im sorry to break it to you but Ben and Lucy aren't related. they're cousins in law, they share no blood. Never the less, I do think Lucy was probably the best possible partner for Ben in OV.
>>152788177
>>152808327Unironically yes, hate on UAF all you want, but that's the era that endeared Kevin as a character to a lot of people.
>>152809116giwtwm
>>152811506They weren't though I know you guys like to force it but the idea that Ben and Gwen would do anything bit vomit at the thought of kissing one another is wish fulfillment at best. Bwen is character wise a catch 22. >Lucy and Ben aren't actually relatedThat unironically is what makes it work. Cute alien girl trying to learn about humanity>generic ooc tsundere gayness.
So I guess no one cares about the comic getting leaked.
>>152811860>the idea that Ben and Gwen would do anything but vomit at the thought of kissing one another is wish fulfillment at best.That's how they would like to appear, but deep down it's clear they desire each other carnally. As much as two ten year olds can of course.
>>152811797UAF Kevin's car has more fans and is more iconic than UAF Kevin
>>152812141Why would Kevin buy a car with Ben's color scheme?
>>152811930Because it's not fully leaked. It's barely anything
>>152812141That's just obviously not true, but I find the idea of people who only know of Kevin's car but not of Kevin himself very funny.>>152812163To be fair, Ben's color scheme was black and white when they were kids, he didn't go harder on the green until he was a teen.
>>152812141/co/ hating uaf Kevin is one of the saddest copiums I've seen in western cartoons. Dude is so loved that a reboot of the os completely backtracked on him and you got people out here pretending he isn't one of the best things about the ip in general.
>>152812290>/co/ hating uaf Kevin is one of the saddest copiums I've seen in western cartoons.Just because people don't spit polish him constantly doesn't mean he is hated. At worst peoples opinion of Kevin is neutral.
>>152812290Apart from shipping him with Gwen literally Nothing from uaf Kevin is brought over into the Reboot
>>152812538I'm pretty sure he means Kevin not being a straight up villain like in the OS.Also, I was under the impression he wasn't shipped with Gwen in the reboot.
>oh man i have to solve this captcha just to be allowed turning myself into Alien X
>>152812278>To be fair, Ben's color scheme was black and white when they were kids, he didn't go harder on the green until he was a teen.Also Ben wasn't originally supposed to wear green. We have early concept art of teen Ben
>>152811930>Ben has had a rough, conflicted childhood and isn’t close to his parents like he is with Grandpa Max. His parents are on the verge of divorce and are constantly arguing. As a coping mechanism, Ben throws himself into Sumo Slammers cards.
>>152812575>Also, I was under the impression he wasn't shipped with Gwen in the reboot.Nah, it still happens by the end.
>>152806645>Is that commercial responsible for all the Raven x Gwen shipping?Yes, much like how the other commercial is the sole reason Samurai Jack x Johnny Bravo exists
>>152812876Good for them, I'm kinda surprised that I'm just learning about it now, but it goes to show how little the Reboot is discussed.
>>152811176It's so funny to me that they hyperfixated on Kai because of that one magazine blurb when almost everything else in there had been retconned, the biggest being that Kevin was still super evil in the original Ben 10,000.
>>152813218>Good for them, I'm kinda surprised that I'm just learning about it now, but it goes to show how little the Reboot is discussed.There's just not that much to talk about with the Reboot. It's more episodic than even OS and it's not a good reboot, it expects you to already be familiar with the characters from much better shows.It's not as bad as people make it out to be after the 1st season or so but it never reaches "good". I'd struggle to come up with a list of 12 things worth talking about in it.
>>152812575>>152812876Not necessarily shipped, but he did have a one sided crush on Gwen so that's something
>>152813666It's not totally one sided
>>152812141KEVIN'S CAR
>>152813900Kevin's car is so cool, shame they never revealed who this "Kevin" guy is
>>152813666The fact that they still had Kevin have a crush on her shows their relationship from the previous canon had an impact on how these characters are perceived.>>152813770Even then, Reboot Kevin couldn't compete with everyone's favorite character RYAN Sez.
>>152808567Go to jail Charmcaster.
>>152811026>There is a gender bent Ben 10 universe where a 21 year old Cursecaster slept with a 16 year old Michelle MorningstarGood
>>152803503She should have been Gwen's rival in the reboot.
I don't understand why they went super hard on the Kai thing. It was both sorta out of nowhere and forced as fuck
>>152814872Because of pic related.
>>152814872DJW REALLY liked the Ben 10K and treated >>152814900 as gospel.
>>152811051Copying another dynamic is always a suboptimal decision.
>>152814872>>152814900>>152815183The reason exists but I don't think it's a good reason. They had no problem retconning other things from the pop-up trivia but for some reason, Ben marrying Kai is the one thing they had to keep. They didn't have to stick with it. The prime timeline already deviated from the original Ben 10k timeline when Ben 10k gave young Ben the cake for Grandpa Max's birthday. Too much has changed. Kevin is still evil in the original Ben 10k timeline. Kai was the worst choice. It's insane that Omniverse immediately ruins Ben's relationship with Julie in the stupidest way just so Kai can happen.
i do not like this partwhen is this part going to end?also i kinda wish incog would go back to the power pack comic i was enjoying that a bit more, not unless hes going to do something better with this one.
>>152815183Why wasn't Kevin a psycho then? He was super evil in Ben 10K.
>>152813770Genuinely wonder how MOA feels about Ben 10 shipping in the sense that the two most popular pairings are ones they never intended.
>>152803307You know, Ben 10 and a fair chunk of Canadian/French cartoons (ie Team Galaxy, Amazing Spiez) really do come quite close to anime in regards to animation style. Very limited animation, lots of cheap tricks at play, the staff actually understood the assignment (I know it was Koreans).Makes the constant talk of Avatar being anime all the more baffling, that show is animated identically to a standard western cartoon.
>>152814872because they blew their load too early with Julie and needed someone to fill in as Ken 10 Mother
>>152815328According to DJW, he still goes evil sometimes.You also gotta remember his clothes from the original Ken 10 episode were the inspiration for the ones the Rooters used, so there was definitely an attempt to make it work somehow.
>>152815489>According to DJW, he still goes evil sometimes.That just raises even more questions
>>152815464Bwen and...?
>>152815489this whole things operates on a multiverse so I don't know why they even bother retconning anything. Just say it's a universe where Kevin stayed bad and call it a day
>>152815481They didn't bring back Kai because they broke Ben and Julie up, they broke Ben and Julie up because they were bringing back Kai.
>>152815552People working on the show actually protested breaking Ben and Julie up. Like signed a letter and shit. Imagine throwing that away on a fucking pairing that is universally hated in the fandom.
>>152811051That's typically how Bencaster is portrayed, with hero x evil woman appeal thrown on top. Charmcaster shares a lot of traits with Gwen.
>>152811113>>152815615Who's right?
>>152815659Imagine 2 scenarios1: Ben and Gwen, Ben tries to start a fire. Gwen would scold and tell on him2. Ben and Charmcaster: Ben tries to start a fire. Charmcaster would say cool let me watch or let me do itBen and Charmcaster would enable a lot of each other's fuckery unless it's outright malicious from Ben's PoV. Could be fun but they'd need a tardwrangler or the world would explode
>>152815659Some anons want justify their incest shipping by pretending Ben and Gwen had some deep, complex relationship and not the bog standard siblings who fight all the time like relationship that was common at the time.
>>152762215I'm still mad about that. Just have them be in love while still being jerks. Absolute gold thrown in the trash.
>>152810669I find it funny you assumed I wouldn't know about Race Against Time while knowing about Destroy All Aliens. I was still a kid when Race Against Time came out. I didn't even know about the existence of Destroy All Aliens until way after its release. Yeah, Race Against Time is super cheesy and good lord is the acting terrible (expected from child actors in a made for TV movie), but they did get Ben and Gwen right.>And even though most of the time, I'm afraid that if people find out we're related, they'll think I inherited your stupid gene, but you're still my ferret-faced, hammer-headed cousin. And I love you, Ben Tennyson, 'cause you're a hero. And you've never given up on anything in your life.And Ben defeating Eon by using Gwen as a weapon is hilarious.
>>152815659It's all perspective. Charmcaster and Gwen are both>snarky>clever and composed>can be very jelly>sorceresses>strong-willed and intelligentEven Rouleau said that Charmcaster was meant to be Gwen's dark reflection.>>152815718I think Charm would scold him for his stupidity, and then show him the "proper way" (only to fuck up because she has terrible luck). So Gwen with a twist.>>152815615It would never work. Despite the memes, Ben really hates Charmcaster. Gwen is more empathetic and trusting of Charmcaster than Ben. Like if they run into Charmcaster, and she's not doing any overtly villainous shit, Ben's first instinct is to shift into Wildmutt and try to bite her head off, while Gwen's is to glare and ask "What are you doing here".I still like the personality clash and dating Catwoman aspect of Ben and Charmcaster though.
>>152806558>>152809652Finding these old OS-style Ben 10 commercials and promos is a treat.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZPWtEFFJTAI love that after getting possessed, Gwen uses the last bit of her willpower to slap Ben for his poor choice of alien and failing to rescue her.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2NV3qp3Q6o
>>152815552They broke Ben and Julie up because she was a nothing character that had nothing for the writers to do with her Kevin and Gwen ate up all the time uaf had for superhero romslop so when they got to OV they decided to cut their losses rather then writ around her, Kai isn't a factor she's a band-aid
>>152816044>DNAlien in OS how fucked would they be unironically?
>>152816058That was part of the plan, but I still feel like they still could've done something with her, even if they wanted to introduce a bunch of other girls to thirst over Ben.
These three are the most popular Ben 10 girls, right?
>>152816068Very, OS is crumb stomping the highbreed in like 2 episodes max
>>152816160Not even the 3rd most popular Gwen
>>152816203He just means Gwen in general.
>>152816160It's pretty much just Gwen and Charmcaster. Julie is too normie to really stand out.
>>152816114I remember being really disappointed that they didn't use her and Ship more, I really wanted her to join the main group in more adventures.
>>152816254Julie is a distant third solely because UAF was the most popular era of Ben 10, so normies who only kept up with that remember her.
I fixed reboot Charmcaster
>>152816324i'm not familiar enough with the reboot to know what you didshe looks the same from what i remember reboot charmcaster being
>>152816324There were more issues with reboot Charm than just her design. Her backstory is significantly less interesting, and she's too Gwen obsessed, to the point where Charmcaster wouldn't even be doing any villainy if it weren't for Gwen existing.>>152816353She looks like this.
oh my fucking god
>>152816382>she's too Gwen obsessedMore than in the OS?>She looks like this.So about the same, kinda like her actual look better tho, she looks like she's wearing way too much makeup for someone her age lol
>>152816114Could have but after six seasons dicking around and forgetting she she even exist half the time, only to pull the same again with Ester has me thinking Julie wasn't so much written out of the show and more like taken away by social services for abuse and neglect
>>152816160Gwen and Charmcaster obviously are, and I really didn't think Julie would be number 3, but I guess she is by default.Like, I'd argue other characters like Attea and Looma and even the Way Bad get more fanart mainly porn, but if we want to talk about general popularity, it probably is Julie.
>>152816382The fact that she concocted an elaborate plot to seduce Morningstar, not because she liked him but just because Gwen was crushing on him, encapsulates everything about their rivalry. It ends up backfiring, because Morningstar in the reboot is a thousand-year-old vampire whose MO is manipulating tweenage girls.>>152816398>More than in the OS?Oh yeah, way more. She's super petty too. Like one of her plots was to kidnapp Gwen, disguise herself as Gwen, and live with the Tennysons, showing Gwen that she'd be a better and more loved Gwen just to piss Gwen off.
>>152816398OS Charmcaster didn't give a shit about Gwen until she started learning magic, her main thing in the OS is being Hex's starscream
>>152816454>Morningstar in the reboot is a thousand-year-old vampire whose MO is manipulating tweenage girls.Somehow they made Darkstar more fucked up than the original.>Oh yeah, way more. She's super petty too.Sounds fucked up, but I bet it's not as fucked up as I think it is considering the tone of the Reboot.Really need to get around watching it one of these days.
>>152816475>Sounds fucked up, but I bet it's not as fucked up as I think it is considering the tone of the Reboot.No, it's played for humor. And Morningstar in the reboot is a parody of Edward Cullen from Twilight.
>>152815299>It's insane that Omniverse immediately ruins Ben's relationship with Julie in the stupidest way just so Kai can happen.If only. They broke up Ben and Julie because the staff wanted to have "single Ben" stories before they went in the Kai thing. And man, I haven't seen shipping this schizophren since Sonally in the Archie comics.
>>152816324>>152816382I like her being a spiteful bitch than the original series changing who she was every couple of seasons. The problem with the reboot version is that, due to status quo, she wasn't allowed to change from just being a stock villain. I think she'd have benefitted from having more dimension like Kevin did.
>>152816279>because UAF was the most popular era of Ben 10in what world
>>152816585She was really only evil when it came to Gwen. For instance, she stopped Ben and Kevin from blowing up a building full of people by accident, held her fire when Ben was rescuing others, and let Ben go after his Omnimatrix ran out of juice.
>>152816454>>152816475>>152816475>>152816398Charmcaster in AF was also pretty petty and Gwen obsessed as well. OV too, even more so. UA is the only series outside of the reboot that tires to do something her.
>>152816594I say it cause if you combine AF and UA, it's the era that lasted the longest and had the most episodes, not counting the Reboot, but we all know that isn't that popular.Also, a lot of people jumped ship at the end of UA, OV was REALLY hated at first.The OS is still seen as the best version of Ben 10, but UAF was when Ben 10 was at it most culturally relevant.
>>152816594>>152816746Also, emphasis on the WAS, nowadays OV is generally considered superior even if it had some problems, while UAF is considered by many the black sheep of the franchise.
>>152816835Calling it the black sheep of the franchise is a little strong the Reboot is known as the worst version of the show for good reason, but UAF has aged the worst by far
>>152794207>>152794313Hmmm…Would rape.
>>152816878The black sheep of the original canon then, the Reboot is usually seen as its own separate thing (which it is) so it's generally not talked about as much, while UAF was the face of Ben 10 for a long time and it's impossible to ignore, so the super fans are specially critical of it, usually for good reason.
>>152816684That´s what I mean, I like that about her. It would have been nice to see that fleshed out
>>152803503>>152814838Frightwig is made for raping Gwen
>>152816160Gwen and Charmcaster are way above Julie, but pretty much, yeah.
>>152813770The show doesn't play too much into it, but it would explain why she gives him way more chances than anyone else.
>>152815721>Some anons want justify their incest shipping by pretending Ben and Gwen had some deep, complex relationship and not the bog standard siblings who fight all the time like relationship that was common at the time.I feel bad for anons who never shared saliva with their cute cousins growing up. Without that critical childhood experience, they develop bad takes like this.
>>152817660Gwen thinks ben is a short manlet and Ben thinks gwen has cooties.
>>152816594Alien Force was top 10ing on on of the streaming services back when you could find it in the us. I feel like people really overestimate how popular the OS was.
The new Ben 10 comic is generating some negative reactions so far but how about the other comics like the Cartoon Network Action Packs or the Korean one? Have you read them?
is reboot 10 worth watching.
>>152818413Haven't watched it, but if you crave for more Ben 10, particularly a modern and different take on the franchise, might as well give it a try.That's why I plan on watching it at least.
>>152818413At best It's got a hand full of good moments here and there some new villains and aliens i'd like to see brought back, but it's not worth the slog I only watched it for the sake of completionism
>>152817855youre the one who posted the first page from read comics online, so you must know.
>>152818936I just want to hear other people's opinions.
>>152812290I think most just hate that it retroactively has made old kevin nicer, the fun of him was being a full on sociopathic kid with powers basically the opposite and antithesis of ben. Basically a ben bad end in a way, him suddenly being blushy and crushing over a girl and trying to be nice or just a soft bad boy ruins the fun
>>152819675I'm sure it was already said somewhere in the thread, but at the time it was just such a complete 180 in both personality and design I thought dude was an entirely new character when I first saw him in the show.
>>152819675Honestly even as a kid I thought treating Kevin as an irredeemable monster was weird.It was like the writers forgot he was meant to be an 11 year old kid and decided he was on the same level as Vilgax.>>152819812Same, but I got into it after a while.After all, he already he already spent his childhood as a psychotic evil criminal and got locked up into the hell jail dimension, I'm not too surprised he mellowed out a bit as he grew up.
>>152819934The problem for me was they didn't show the development or any hint of him thinking about changing in OS, nor did they give a slight flashback in UAF or AF if I remember right. He's just suddenly there after him and Ben were at each others throats nearly killing each other. It wasn't till OV that they addressed this massive plot gap.
How did Ben never think to use Grey Matter to unlock master control when even Ken thought of it? He also didn't think of using Brainstorm in AF when they were trying to unlock master control to prepare for Vilgax. Is it just easier to unlock master control on the omnitrix Ben 10k created?
>>152816209Some things never change
>>152820078They actually did have a few flashbacks later in UA iirc.
>>152820581It's just kind of a cheap solution to the problem.
>>152820722Fair enough it has been awhile since I watched UA. Still took them a series to get to it, but I will concede the thought did cross there mind that Kevin suddenly becoming a good guys was jarring.
>>152820787I understand, Kevin turning good does seem a bit jarring, but you also gotta remember there are 5 years between the OS and AF, that's a lot of time, it's not really sudden in-universe.
>>152820954The length of the time skip doesn't matter when the reason given is so retard."Nu uH Kevin was always a good boy it's just his powers that turns into a murderess sociopath so he has to be a pussywhipped jobber from now on"
>>152820738Introducing that as a possibility just creates even more problems, i.e. the questions I asked.
>>152821176Well, that's on them for introducing the idea in the first place.I always thought it was kinda dumb.
>>152809976>>152810410I think an entire Ben 10k spinoff series would be great as long as they stick closer to the original portrayal instead of the future installments (and no Kai).
>>152821281>no KaiWould you really prefer no Kai at all instead of them attempting to redeem the character?I say this as someone who hasn't even watched OV btw, I've heard that she's by far the worst love interest, but surely she could have some potential, right?
>>152761519I'm assuming maybe around issue 40 if ever, she might get more fleshed out and might even become a permanent member, her species seem like a great cosmic horror chance and an addition to the omnitrix will be great, as by issue 40 I believe ben will have gotten a few new additions to the omnitrix by that point
>>152821281Ben 10k is too powerful to be the protagonist, and don't trust the writers to be able to come up with villains that can challenge a Ben with full control over his powers and 10,000 aliens at his disposal, in the original episode Ben 10k made quick work of Vilgax, and that was the real Vilgax not the fraud from the sequels.The only villain that challenged him was Kevin 11k and even that ended the moment he went Way Big on him.
>>152821538Ben 10K would make money from the gimmick of him using so many random aliens, the actual plot would be the characters, but people wouldn't want to see thatAlso in the original episode Vilgax was beating Ben up pretty badly, he had a counter for "all of his aliens"
Another thread finished
>>152821592move to new one or make a new one
>>152816746>>152816835>>152816966Seems that UAF made some changes from OS that fans didn't like. OV tried to remedy some of that and make it closer to OS but all that did was add more changes that fans didn't like. It's easy to see why despite it flaws, OS is still treated as sacred by the fans.
>>152821353You could retcon it and give Ben 10k a different love interest/wife or make a new continuity. But I don't see why he needs a love interest in the first place. Just don't address it.
>>152821538>>152821543The only reason Ben 10k was challenged is plot. Realistically nothing can threaten him. He's confirmed to have powerful aliens like Way Big and Atomix which he isn't shown using (except at the end against Kevin 11k). The only way to justify this is to say he's intentionally going far below his full power (maybe because of collateral). Even if Vilgax somehow does have a counter to all his aliens like he claimed, he still doesn't have a way to win the fight. And any credit Vilgax may have gotten for giving Ben 10k some trouble in the beginning of the fight instantly goes away when Ben 10k reverted back to human and made a fool out of him.
>>152821689>the only reason why something happened is because the core of the story happened
