>smartest man in the world couldn't figure out that the Communist regime would implode under its own retardation
>>152778207Smartest man in a universe created by Alan Moore.
>>152778215this. a "smart" character is always limited by their creator
>>152778217>>152778215>I am going to write a RIGHTOID dystopia for my comic, V for Vendetta!>*opens 1984*
>>152778215FPBP
>>152778230should be All Along the Watchtower
>>152778250Nah.
>>152778230>NOOOOO!! MURDERING CHILD RAPISTS IS FASCIST!!!!!>*early life check*Huh.
>>152778207>Author creates a character you're suppose to hate>People end up idolizing themIs this a death of a author situation or just a flaw with their writing?
>>152778294>death of a authorAlways was a lefty pseudointellectual meme.
>>152778207Too hyper focused. Here's an anecdote about Albert Einstein:>We [Einstein and Ernst Straus] had finished the preparation of a paper and were looking for a paper clip. After opening a lot of drawers we finally found one which turned out to be too badly bent for use. So we were looking for a tool to straighten it. Opening a lot more drawers we came upon a whole box of unused paper clips. Einstein immediately started to shape one of them into a tool to straighten the bent one. When asked what he was doing, he said, ‘Once I am set on a goal, it becomes difficult to deflect me.’>— Ernst Straus, “Memoir,” in A.P. French, ed., Einstein: A Centenary Volume, 1979>>152778294It's a situation in which fans misread intent and execution because the author aimed a little higher than the general comic book readership's mental capacity. Moore intended for Rorschach to be a sort of contradiction, someone whom you could somewhat admire but ultimately admit is very fucked up. He was meant to be a bit intriguing. When Moore said he was meant to be a bad example, he's not a virtuous hero, but a terribly flawed one.
>>152778215>>152778207Moore gave commies plot armor and mindlessly believed in their propaganda himself. In real life, Manhattan winning in Vietnam would make the Iron Curtain fall even fasterIt's especially funny when the story confirms scientific advancement due to Manhattan and Moore doesn't even think what kind of soft power leverage it was giving to the already more advanced West.
>>152778326Moore proved why he was one of the lowest in secondary.
>>152778343Moore couldn't predict the future or know what the other side was up to. What a retard!!!
>>152778326>It's a situation in which fans misread intent and execution because the author aimed a little higher than the general comic book readership's mental capacityStop smelling Moore's farts. He created an idiot rightoid detective who blindly believed in a right wing rag owned by a guy who saw his readership as a bunch of idiots. He was a purposeful insult, not just flawed.And it came from a guy whose relevance persist due to the mental capacity of those who think that a geriatric anarchist comics books writer can be a political pundit. Moore should check who really is infantile, and those aren't adults enjoying superhero entertainment in their leisure time.
>>152778357That would be forgiven if decades later he hasn't ended up telling people how to vote to prevent UK losing democracy, without ever acknowledging that the next elections result has proven him wrong
>>152778311What's worst:To not understand the authors message, or believe every stories message is supporting liberal ideals?
>>152778361Rorschach was not an idiot. He was mentally ill. He was given plenty of good qualities, qualities which Moore himself found admirable, but the character as a whole was tragic and dysfunctional. Your perspective is clouded by politics.
>>152778207It could be that Ozzy didn't want to gamble that the USSR would collapse before a nuclear exchange started.Or it could be it was more about Ozzy's ego as he wanted to be the one to save the world/direct its future
>>152778311>Always was a lefty pseudointellectual meme.Only if you apply it to fiction. This is literally how historians have to handle biographies and historical texts otherwise you get weird stuff like everything good happening just so happened to be the authors idea and everything bad happening was anyone but the authors fault and every claim the author makes is factual true.
>>152778311This.>>152778294Rejecting Death of the Author allows the reader to accept that it is flawed piece of media written by deranged commie who hated the idea that Soviet Union collapsed would rather write a dystopian alt history comic where someone kills millions to make a perfect world.This is the same thing with Disco Elysium.>>152778343Nobody has brought up how the US having Dr. Manhattan would offset most the threat of Mutually Assured Destruction.
>>152778207Dr Manhattan threw off the balance of the cold war and his advancements in technology were on the cusp of teleportation. Its an alt history by the 1970's
>>152778624>Dr Manhattan threw off the balance of the cold war and his advancements in technology were on the cusp of teleportation.Thus accelerating the collapse of the USSR. With Communism, implosion is inevitable.
>>152778294Alan Moore realized that he was one of the retarded children shrieking in the abattoir and tried to bully his own creation into silence.
>>152778207There were decades of differences in history.
>>152778282Didnt he do a book where lolis like snow white get fucked hardcore after this
>>152778602>Nobody has brought up how the US having Dr. Manhattan would offset most the threat of Mutually Assured Destruction.The comic brings that up. Manhattan says if he misses even one nuke, the world is fucked, and he technically can't be sure he'll catch all of them until it's time (even though he absolutely will if he's not distracted). Then he leaves the planet.
>>152778207Is this why North Korea still exists? Why Russia is still threatening the West. Why the US has to attack Iran?In 1984 the Soviet Union was still a danger. And what if Ozymandias knew that when Russia is near imploding they might attack others just to create a war union and cover up the bad situation?
>>152778294He didn't intend for Rorschach to be a cariacture to blindly hate like a modern writer.He just didn't fully understand the mindset of the right enough.
>>152778932>The comic brings that up. Manhattan says if he misses even one nuke, the world is fucked1) That is fucking retarded.2) There is no indication that such feat should be beyond him.I fucking hate boomers.
>>152778932>>152779143The comic says that Manhattan can't stop every nuke, at best he can stop 99%, so the Soviets have built enough nukes to make that 1% enough for mutually assured destruction.
>>152778326“Erm, people only like Rorschach because they’re dumb and comic book readers are dumb dumbs.”
>>152779097Had he both of these att how would he have written R.?
>>152778602Watchmen was written & published prior to the fall of the Soviet Union. It’s not like he was seething at its dissolution and wanted to revive it in his world. It’s just a major player because, at the time of him writing the work, it was a major player at the international stage. Doesn’t make Moore any less of a hack though.
>>152778970>The DPRK isn’t an International threat, people just harangue it because it not only rejects international integration but has the means to resist it being forced upon it (nuclear weapons).>The Russian Federation isn’t communist.>The U.S. didn’t have to attack Iran, it was a war of choice pushed forward by the Israel Lobby so as to void any competitors to Jewish power in the region.Instead of coping you can just say that, while Ozymandias was intelligent, he wasn’t omniscient. He had to work with what he had and, by all accounts, the consensus was that the Soviet Union was there to stay and one would go away thinking this if they’ve only had 1986-87 PoliSci, Economic, and Strategic journals to go off of.
>>152779164>Soviets have built enough nukes to make that 1% enough for mutually assured destruction.That would just speed up their already inevitable collapse. To this day, commies still celebrate the Rosenbergs for their traitorous act.
>>152779164why can't he stop them all?
>>152778294Pitty, not hate, would be more appropriate
>>152779383Look, I don’t think Communism (as Marx envisioned it) could ever actually be achieved in the real world, however, I think it’s equally foolish to say that Actually Existing Socialist countries would just collapse as a matter of course. The U.S.S.R., like Communist China, could’ve developed a Synchronized Economic Model akin to Deng or in the spirit of Bukharin which would’ve allowed the CPSU to remain in power.
>>152779435Could never* I hate autocorrect
>>152779444No I was right the first time
>>152779393Plot dictates otherwise. Manhattan is still a puppet, just one aware that he is. Ozy’s tachyon field was enough to take him out of commission for long enough, on top of messing with his head prior. More than enough time to launch a nuke.
>>152779230Just read the villains of any modern super hero comic.
>>152779143Doctor Manhattan misses Ozymandias’ while Squid rollout so clearly it’s possible.
>>152778629The USSR in Watchmen is basically a cipher. We don’t know much about their alternate history or how well structured or not their government is. It has nothing to do with endorsing communism or not because they simply exist as a big rival country to the US with nuclear power that could be used immediately. Maybe they would’ve still collapsed in 5 years, but at the time within the story in universe they had active nukes they were willing to use.Even the end has Manhattan unintentionally patronizing Ozymandias simply stating nothing ever ends. This is only a temporary solution and Adrian thought this conflict in his era was the biggest there would ever be due to his own narcissism.
>>152778207This comic was published a decade before the USSR collapsed dumb niggers>>152778282>rape and nuclear holocaust is bad unless if they're done by people I idolizeThat dysgenic ginger was probably glad the blue jew gave him a convenient way out instead of having to confront his beliefs
>>152778311You know, we always hear about death of the author but I feel that - as a society - we haven't properly considered the benefits of embracing the death of the audience.
>>152779951For every Rowling and Wachowski (it is not what Death of the Author is about but it is what retards thing it is about), there are a thousand fujoshies talking about characters being gay, a hundred trannies saying a character is trans, and a hundred negroes calling a character Black.
>>152779320People fear North Korean nuclear rockets. They are a threat. So much that Trump directly met him because of the nuclear threat.After the Soviet Republic imploded, the United States and the European nations provided significant economic and political support to Russia during the 1990s, aiming to stabilize the country, secure its vast nuclear arsenal, and facilitate its transition to a market economy. Iran was just a regional power and still the US felt like protecting Israel.I dont think that Ozymandias was written dumb, but 5 years after the comic was published it was know to the West that the Soviet block was under pressure.
>>152779951I came here to make this point, bless you
>>152779951>embracing the death of the audienceBecause that worked so well for comics and vidya
>I can't believe a bri'ish AD2000 hack failed to understand US politics and wrote about it in an oversimplified, condescending fashion, this has literally never happened before We don't value Alan Moore for his incisive view of politics from anywhereWe value him for his solid story structure, crutch-like dependency on existing properties, obsession with gotterdammerung, occasional great jokes and interest in rape
>>152780497vidya continues to balloon in sales every year, the recent disasters have all been live service crap because lying with advertising doesn't work for keeping players around more than a week
>>152780582Steam and pre-orders are not representative of the industry as a whole
>>152779393>why can't he stop them all?Because he's not LITERALLY omnipotent.
>>152780604who cares about the industry, the question was the audience, which has only ever gotten bigger over time
>>152778679I think he did it before, but yes, he did write that comic.
>>152779951This comic is a good use for death of the audience. Too many retards not picking up on or outright ignoring any of the nuance (which is plainly obvious if you read the comic without wearing blinders).
>>152778679>>152780686Lost Girls was created after he left DC. He teamed up with a feminist artist, who he ended up marrying thanks to the comic.
>>152778215>>152778207literally nobody worked it out in advance irl
>>152778602rejecting death of the author means you take facile information about an author or actor and use it to leap to inductive conclusions like a fuckwitit would be like saying the US has been sucked into what is assuredly its Suez moment, permanently diminishing its standing, because the man who ordered the attack is a rapist and therefore thinks like a rapist at all times, whereas the reality is that he's done it because he's fucking senile and wasn't that smart to begin with
>>152780564>crutch-like dependency on existing propertiesHis early career was a series of hired gigs pretty much back to back. Once this began, his only proposed comic for the big two was Watchmen, which was initially using the Charlton characters, and Archie superheroes before that. We value Moore because he cared and tried hard enough to spin good yarns.
>>152779097>like a modern writer.You can smell the lingering seethe from this post
>>152781619You're posting in Moore seethe thread #844858838383.
>>152778405Good points.>>152778343>scientific advancement due to Manhattan and Moore doesn't even think what kind of soft power leverage it was giving to the already more advanced West.That's actually a good point, but it's buried in your retardation.
>>152778207The survival of present administrations and politics wasn't the point, Veidt said after he mentally masturbated long enough he deduced that with the way the world was going contention and escalating weapons of death would always be an issue for humans unless Squidded.The real none-Moore-hurt-my-feelings lapse is Veidt not figuring out what Jon said about that issue, but that's a The modern day Ozymandias characterization thing not the script hurdle. Veidt like all men of note has the wherewithal to achieve in his time but not beyond it.
>>152778602The United States and the Soviet Union were communicating throughout the Cold War; they would only go to war if one directly attacked the other.The presence of Manhattan would guarantee victory in any terrestrial armed conflict. The Soviet Union would likely spend many resources trying to create something capable of killing Manhattan.The United States, with Manhattan’s support, would win the Angolan Civil War, the Soviet–Afghan War, the Sandinista Revolution and the Contra War in Nicaragua, the Salvadoran Civil War, and the conflicts in the Horn of Africa
>>152781668And?
>>152783219It's like pointing out a needle in a needlestack.
>>152778207Because at the time a majority of economic models weren't showing the USSR imploding under its own retardation due to a lack of factual economic figures.
>>152778230>defends a literal rapist>coolWhat the fuck is with retards who clearly never read the book projecting on Rorschach?
>>152778357You don't need to predict the future to know that Communism is an utterly failed attempt at a system; people have been saying that since the early 19th century. Nor do you need oracular powers to avoid doing shit like giving Big Brother a pseudo-Nazi flag and claiming it's a right-wing dystopia.
>>152778932Which is a lie however as he can see/precalculate the future, so he knows there won't be a nuclear exchange. Or he knows there will, once Rorschach's diary get out.
>>152783705
>>152783913Two things.Veidt's tachyon emitter scrambled Manhattan's knowledge of the NYC incident, so he didn't know what happened then.Secondly Manhattan can only see his future, once he leaves Earth for wherever he doesn't know what happens unless he one day returns.People also seem to miss that Janey's mention of Jon knowing news that JFK would be shot and the exchange between the Comedian, the Vietnamese comfort woman and Manhattan was indicative of how if Jon is uninformed at the time of something, hesitates or is reluctant in any capacity things go unopposed.Ultimately it's also just beneath him to have to remain tangled in the repercussions of man's own decisions.
>>152783788Both systems committed countless heinous acts and have continuously lied to their people different ways, including the spreading of disinformation. Both left and right are capable of creating an authoritarian dystopia. You're just as much of a tool as Moore.
I don't like how the story tries to beat you over the head that Manhattan can't stop the nukes once they are launched when it doesn't seems to be something that difficult for him to do
>>152778215fippy bippy
>>152784460It takes him a while to get Vietcong to surrender.
>>152778207Not surprising if you know anything about Alan Moores IRL politics.
>>152784589It should be surprising considering it was an American publisher.
>>152778227No shit. It was about Thatcher.
>>152784002People do not understand how Manhattan's powers work, they think he is a telekinetic mind reader with perfect precognition. It's impossible to have a conversation about the book because of this.
Why do communists hate asexual men?
>>152778326That's not hyper focused that's just stupid. How are you going to unbend the second paperclip, you moron? The more anecdotes I hear of Einstein the more I think he's a retard, that was being fed credit, to be setup as an Icon.
>>152785085Didn't communists create asexuality in the west?
>>152778207You certainly aren't helping disprove the stereotype that rightoids are illiterate parasites. Watchmen's history had significantly diverged from ours.
>>152783340The USSR collapsed mainly for political reasons, not economic ones. China was ten times more economically fucked than the USSR (or Yugoslavia) yet it survived and thrived. Not to mention Vietnam, North Korea or Cuba (the latter two which are still fucked today). The main reason why the USSR collapsed was glasnost, which is probably the most retarded policy in human history. Once they eased censorship every republic (even Russia) went through a wave of nationalism and started demanding independence. >Yeah sure, Ukraine, everybody is taking advantage of your agricultural production. >Sure, Russia, everybody is taking advantage of your cheap gas and oil>Sure, Baltics, you are being russified>Sure, Kazakhstan, your cotton production is very valuable>Sure Armenia/Azerbaijan, nobody is taking your side on Nagorno-KarabakhOf course this was all largely BS, but nobody could disprove it because in socialism commodities are not sold at market prices. And of course, the same applied to the Warsaw Pact states (that didn't want to be under soviet control) and Yugoslavia (that was decently wealthy yet collapsed for the same reason the USSR did but worse).Plurinational states like the USSR or Yugoslavia cannot survive without heavily suppressing nationalism. The other retarded mistakes the Soviets and their satellites did was taking IMF loans. The idea being that this was basically money they would be able to use freely. Well guess what? The IMF loans were all basically debt traps which later forced them to do austerity. They should have just opened their economies to foreign investors like China and Vietnam did and they would have probably saved themselves from all that 90s/Washington Consensus shock doctrine.
>>152784423>Both left and right are capable of creating an authoritarian dystopia.Sure, of course, it just wouldn't look the *same*, idort. A commie dystopia is different from a fascist one.>You're just as much of a tool as Moore.No u
>>152784914His foreword to V is unironically deranged, he claims Thatcher was clinically insane and shit, just for not agreeing with his politics and still fixing things.
>>152785562Thatcher was a woman in politics. She qualifies as clinically insane.
>>152778294>Character is written as a Rorschach test for >Is literally called Rorshach>Author tells people he uses him as a Rorschach test for people's beliefs>"Heh, he must be so stupid not to realise people would like the character"
>>152778970North Korea is a small, isolated dictatorship completelly cut off from the rest of the world and kept alive by China as a proxy against the Southern Korean U.S. Proxy. There are also theories on how the regime uses nukes as a mean for blackmailing the international community for aid to prevent famines. These are of course just theories, however North Korea was granted aid multiple times in exchange for disarming their nuclear weapons which for obvious reasons they never did and kept repeating.For all intents and purposes, it already is a failed state, but People just go on eith their life because everyone accepts the Korean Ststus Quo as completelly normsl due to their lack of perspective. This is not applicable to any other Socialist nations who had to compete on the World stage and thus expose their people to the outside world. No other socialist state had the advantageous geography and geopolitical circumstances as North Korea did, hence why they all either collapsed or slowly reformed to capitalist economies with or without some degree of Authoritarian market intervention (like China).
>>152785562I never thought I'd see /co/ reach the levels of contrarian insanity as unironic Thatcher apoligism. Its time to log off, anon.
>>152785874I've seen people here side with corporations, Jews, soccer moms, trannies, comics people everyone hates, and even progressives against Alan Moore. Something about Moore and Watchmen makes people go insane.
>>152786436because more called them out for the retards they really are, which cuts deeper than any generic ignorant insult those other groups might throw at them
>>152785539>Sure, of course, it just wouldn't look the *same*, idort. A commie dystopia is different from a fascist one.>Both left and right are capable of creating an authoritarian dystopia.That is just a Leftist dystopia vs another Leftist dystopia.
>>152787090How are you this fucking stupid?
>>152787836>minor differences mean it belongs in the opposite side of the political spectrum
>>152785189>parasites
>>152778207Pfft whatever read Gravity's Rainbow fags
>>152788405Who said anything about minor differences?
>>152788710>Who said anything about minor differences?I did. Here >>152788405People claimed that Communism and Fascism weren't both Left-wing. I disagree.
>repeat Alan Moore hate thread>politics sperging threadPlease let's live up to Alan Moore's high opinion of /co/ as shown in this completely true quote instead of falling for bad faith arguments and stealth politics shit.
>>152778207The history of the Cold War is different in that timeline though. If Doctor Manhattan wasn't around making things worse by existing Ozy probably would've figured out nuclear war wasn't on the table.
>>152788858But he worships a snake god not a bird one.
>>152788751Fascism is right-wing.
>>152785805North Korea is stable because it reverted to feudal monarchy. Feudalism is a very stable political system that was only abandoned in Europe because it's bad at economics/war. That doesn't matter for NK because they have nukes.
>>152789028In what sense? If Fascism is far-Right, what is moderate Right?
>>152789077nationalism
>>152789205Having national sovereignty is far-Right?
>>152778230Thats a funny pic. Who is the artist?
>>152789676As far as I know it came from /co/.
>>152789205Ok, this is how I know you’re a dumbass, because throughout the 20th Century Marxist Leninist movements have been mobilized by National Struggle as opposed to Western Imperialism, which is diametrically opposed to Nationalism.
One of the few things the commies were good at was hiding their conditions to the rest of the world. Also the communist system was so bafflingly alien and ass-backwards nobody in the West could even conceive of its functioning. Shit like used cars costing more than new ones (because they're available), rural folks having to trek to major cities for food, steel foundries bragging about steel output in itself and using that steel to make more steel. It's laughable when commie shits tell you it's all CIA propaganda because the CIA at the time could never know or make up this shit (they also suddenly believe the CIA when picrel)
>>152785874>>152786436Dang I wonder why younger people suddenly defend Thatc->Margaret Thatcher implemented strong, restrictive immigration policies, driven by a desire to reduce non-white Commonwealth immigration and address "swamping" concerns. Her government introduced the British Nationality Act 1981, which created new, stricter categories of citizenship and abolished the automatic right of abode for manyoh
>>152790187Imagine pointing to those as if they helped White Britain. Anon, those removed the right of return for Ethnic British Diaspora, Thatcher was probably one of the worst figures for White Britons eclipsed only by, perhaps, Boris Johnson.
>>152778403>Moore wasn't calling Right wingers stupid>He was calling them mentally illReally bro?
>>152778403He thought that making Roscharch an ugly manlet with no gf whose only friend hangs out with him out of pity was enough to convince readers that he was in the wrong side of the story
>>152788903We can trick him with a lizard god
>>152790187She also told the IRA to get fucked, fixed the UK economy and is generally personally responsible for the recovery from the unbelievably dreary bong 1970s which resembled some kind of Sartrean Hell. But to zoomzooms who let Tiktok scoop out their brains with an ice cream scoop, apparently that's Bad, Actually.
>>152790289Kek you guys have willingly pumped more immigrants into your country just since she's been dead than she would ever have allowed to stay. British youth's blinding hatred for her caused more damage to the country than she ever could
>>152789700So it is a /co/ homegrown stuff? I didnt thought thats possible! Thanks for the information.
>>152778207>>152778343If anything, knowing that USSR was crumbling would be even greater cause for concern regarding nuclear brinksmanship. Dying empires tend to do a lot of insane and ridiculous things to hold it together, like try to win a game of nuclear quickdraw before they lose the capacity to do so.>>152778294It's a bit of moore having a perfect understanding of what an unpleasant trainwreck human being Rorschach is, and his flaws being easier to overlook or miss outright from speedreading in favour of his positive attributes when you don't have to see or smell him in person. You'd be a lot less willing to see the good in him if you'd just come home from work to find that he needed to talk to you and figured the best way to do so was to kick down your door and sit in your kitchen eating cold beans until you got home
>>152785874Thatcher hate has always seemed somewhat deranged to me. I can't help but wonder if it has something to do with her being a woman
>>152778294Judging by how often that comes from leftist creators I'm forced to assume that this is a consequence of them assuming that their deranged worldviews are the standard for everyone
>>152778294>Is this a death of a author situation or just a flaw with their writing?Both, Moore never considered that people would side with the only character who opposes killing millions of innocent people.I mean, what did he expect? That people would justify genocide?
>>152790531>>152791319Seeing it as just right vs wrong is a poor way to read things, and either way Ozy is FAR more incriminated by Manhattan saying nothing ever ends. Dan and Laurie aren’t portrayed as any better for keeping the secret.Meanwhile Moore relies on Rorschach being engaging, sympathetic, and likable for the story to even work.
>>152790543Ok!
>>152788858
>>152791691>Seeing it as just right vs wrong is a poor way to read thingsDid you hear the part about genocide? Obviously it's bad, what the hell are you talking about?
>>152790598Gutting all your domestic industry from film, manufacturing, automobile, and even textiles was not sound economic strategy and has drowned out British Entrepreneurs with Foreign business Mughals particularly from the United States and the Middle East
>>152791691>Manhattan saying nothing ever ends.This is Dr. Manhattan referring obliquely to how the matter isn't over; since he can see the future he knows Rorschach's diary will come out and is actually answering Ozymandias' question sincerely. Moore loves this kind of "clever" dialogue/situation.
>>152793780>blaming Blairism on ThatcherAt this point it's all starting to seem a bit desperate.
>>152791177https://youtu.be/0G6RF5ChKYQ?si=jAasOkciudENzADW
>>152793366Veidt wasn't targeting any one ethnic/national or any particular group so it was a massacre or mass killing, not a genocide.And the question is more about whether or not to keep the secret of how and why it was done at the expense of a possible peace.Veidt's action is meant to be very shocking and disgusting, it's compared directly to the Gordian knot, which was a solution that meant destroying the rope and not restoring it to it's original state. But it's been done and the immediate result is a ceasefire and peacetalks and trying to bring Veidt to justice risks undoing that and making things worse.
>>152778207You’re like the retards braying about Infinity War’s supposed plot hole because Thanos could’ve just made “infinite resources”. The fact his solution is to kill millions of people is a point to the character.
>>152794127The diary doesn't contain any information about the NYC attack though, being written before they knew about it. Dan and Rorschach go to the Arctic only knowing there's some sort of conspiracy and Veidt's behind it by Dan(not even Rorschach's) estimation. They only realize this is a WW3 situation moments before and it's not clear how much Rorschach details on that. It's very much implied Ozymandias made his trail breadcrumbed enough to be guessed as he was ready for everyone to arrive in the Arctic more or less. He could just as easily cover all those tracks, and was working on it already.Manhattan very likely does not know anything on Earth after he leaves because he no longer cares, he can't see the future omnipotently, only his own. It's more likely he's simply speaking broadly than him visiting Earth and caring to look into what happened to these matters after. You'd likely have people who'd manage to make a connection, but it'd still be unlikely to be widely known or believed. You'd also likely to have people make entirely different connections like thinking Rorschach got beamed up by aliens or something.
>>152778207>>152778215Why does this board have such a hateboner for Alan Moore? Is it because you saw Rorschach and went “he’s literally me” and couldn’t handle it when Moore said “Rorschach isn’t someone to aspire to”?
>>152778207There was no time for it to implode, Veidt thought the nukes were imminent because Doc M escalated the cold war.
>>152794622That and because Moore is very opinionated in general. Also, Watchmen is considered the best comic of all time by many types of people, so there's naturally going to be contention.
>>152794622He's a twat bro
>>152794961he's a pretty funny dude when you realize he's just trolling and people take him way to seriously most of the time.
>>152794622his only emotion is grumpiness. He is also a bit of hypocrite for calling capeshit fans manchildren when he larps as a wizard
>>152795344>his only emotion is grumpinessIt’s not. Like this anon >>152795178 said he’s a funny guy with a dry British sense of humor that doesn’t come across well in print, especially with modern clickbait headlines like “Alan Moore says anyone who likes Rorschach is a FAGGOT who should KILL THEMSELVES!!”
>>152795368It's hilarious that of all people, Rob Liefeld managed to clock exactly what Moore does. It's like that midwit bell curve.
>>152794127Holy fucking shit HE CAN ONLY SEE THE "FUTURE" IN THE SENSE THAT HE IS EXPERIENCING HIS OWN TIMELINE SIMULTANEOUSLY. HE DOES NOT HAVE PERFECT PRECOGNITION, ONCE HE LEAVES EARTH HE DOESNT KNOW WHAT HAPPENS ON EARTH!Why is this shit so hard for people to understand? There is an entire issue that explains this shit!
>>152790296>autist can't read a fictional character without assuming that the character is intended to represent everyone in the real world who is even remotely similar to himWhy are they like this? Anon, if I write a story about a corrupt cop, does it mean that I think all cops are corrupt?
>>152791691>Meanwhile Moore relies on Rorschach being engaging, sympathetic, and likable for the story to even work.>sympathetic>likableI dont think that Rorschach is that and Moore wanted that. Maybe i get that wrong as an ESL but i would use “understandable motivation“ and “relateable morality“.
>>152794622He's too correct and accurate about everything and his writing is so good it triggers intense contrarian hatred towards him
>>152796376If he wasn't meant to be likable to some extent, he wouldn't start the story with him and effectively end it with his death, using his journal as the center of it. And he has plenty of moments to explain why he's the way he is, and even fights against that ingrained nature, which few of the other characters are allowed.
>>152793286attribution of quote is fake:https://www.reuters.com/article/fact-check/to-learn-who-rules-over-you-quote-wrongly-attributed-to-voltaire-idUSL1N2UE2LM/voltaire didnt say that.
>>152796656Interesting.
>>152796568Fuck, bros...
>>152794427The Gordian Knot is also what ties the themes of Watchmen together, ironically. For all of Ozy's intellect, he still ultimately craved a simple solution to the world's problems because that's all capes have to offer. Superheroes are inherently larger than life concepts given form, rather than anything approaching a realistic person. The extent of what they can do is essentially "defeat bad guy to solve the problem", but that mentality doesn't work on more nuanced issues. We see this throughout the whole book. Rorschach, Veidt, Manhattan, the Comedian, they feel like they have it all figured out by smoothing out the complexities of life in their own way, but it's a cope that ultimately harms more than it helps. It's still a cope they cling to though, because that's easier for them to digest than acknowledge they haven't actually done much to solve the world's issues (or for the most part actively contribute to it).
>>152798427With Watchmen and Miracleman, I wonder if Moore had that Superman story where he just decides to end WWII by just kidnapping Hitler and Stalin and bringing them to the League of Nations. Miracleman ends with the idea of the superheroes just seizing power, but Watchmen takes it a step further by doing so through conspiracy and the public be none the wiser. The idea that these superheroes way of solving problems would see humans as simple collateral for the greater good.
>>152798427>>152798661Well put.
It is kinda strange now that I think about it that the USSR and communism would've survived just as long with a Manhattan powered US
>>152794622Uh I don't hate Moore but while I think he's really good at writing dialogue his two most popular comics (V and Watchmen) are really overrated for a number of reasons while Miracleman is probably his best work and D.R. and Quinch is really underrated too.
>>152794622
>>152789700>immediately sprains his ankle and gets his ass beaten by copsThat's kinda the point. Its not like snyder rorschach where he fights 30 cops at once
>>152796568Was hoping they'd at least add this scene to the animated adaptation but no it got cut again
>>152778207>He says as capitalism implodes under its own retardation
>>152798427I do find it funny how people keep getting caught up as to whether Rorschach is a hero or not, but the whole point was that every cape in the setting was missing the forest for the trees, and have totally forgotten the whole point of being a hero in the first place. The closest act of true heroism came at the last second with Rorschach's therapist, and the newsstand guy protecting the kid from the explosion.>>152798661I certainly wouldn't be surprised if that is the case. It also seemed to be a general critique on the way superhero comics were heading, with anti-heroes like Punisher getting traction around that time. Watchmen more or less showed that these sorts of edgy "realistic" heroes were just as ill-equipped to deal with complex issues as the Silver-Age pulp guys, they're just less honest about that.
>>152799462Nice to know. Or just a hook to keep the conversation up?
>>152796568He isnt really likeable. He is dirty, brutal, conservative and a religous nutcase. He is a plot driving force because he is a detective character and so far into his conspirancy that this is the best way to make it a mystery whodunit story.He is a tragic characte,and those dont have to be likeable, just relatable. Similar stories are American Psycho, American History X, The Wolf of Wall Street or the Wall Street movie.The moments are the parts were you get the informations why he became so crazy and are there for the reader to understand him and make him relateable.
>>152796656Ok, than i got tricked into believing that. But i thought that is something that Voltaire could have said. Because in his time there was a law against criticising the king.I didnt saw it as an anti-semitistic quote. Thanks for pointing it out and i wont use it in the future.
>>152799462It's fact. Just look at this thread.
>>152778207Westerners were really pessimistic during the 80s in regards to the Cold War. Any expert or Soviet knew that they were going to collapse, but in the minds of Americans (and British like Alan Moore) the USSR was unstoppable and about to destroy the west.
>>152802294They knew they would collapse, but not sure when. And a collapsing or imploding USSR is far more dangerous.
>>152795983Boy howdy, somebody's taking Dr. Manhattan's ability to see the future way too seriously. It's not like Moore cared about consistency with this stuff, just accept it changes to suit the needs of the plot in the moment.
>>152801052>He isnt really likeable. He is ... conservativejej
>>152796459
>>152801052>He is a tragic characte,and those dont have to be likeable, just relatable. Similar stories are American Psycho, American History X, The Wolf of Wall Street or the Wall Street movie.those characters are also likable despite flaws and actions. It's why mafia movies and TV shows are popular. People like Tony Soprano, and he's far more worse morally than Rorschach
>>152803016Ignoring everything that matters and zeroing in on political leanings, as usual. Stop being a goddamned puppet.
>>152803672You cited political and religious leanings as a reason why a character in a story isn't likeable, and a absurdly mundane reason at that. You are a retard.
>>152778343The fall of the USSR took like 99.99% of the population by surprise, man. You have to remember that there weren't cell phones capturing high quality video of daily living conditions and shitting it onto twitter or tiktok or wherever. For normal people, information about far off places was limited to what the press was willing to cover and they didn't have fantastic access to a secretive enemy superpower. Moore was definitely sympathetic but it's not like the right wing was just sitting around saying "any day now!" They and everyone else were worrying about WW3
>>152791177she did give up the steel mills and heavy industry to focus britian of being a banker and insurance service economy, but a lot of the damage was done by the insistence on an ever growing bureaucracy and communists hatred of the native born populace not going along lockstep with their plans.Their political class has been short sighted retards since the interwar period. Their general populace has also not helped things, it's like a boondocks skit but with whites where a lower class brit wants to advance and get a better job/grades/or own a house and everyone tells him that they dont do that. they treat it as an act of personal betrayal if you try to speak with a different accent or grammer set for job advancement.Just look at any interview of Michael Cain, he talks about their upper class being restrictive and elitist, but also everyone holding themselves down.
>>152803885That wasn't my post, moron.You're being a little bitch for focusing on specific things while ignoring everything else. That anon isn't even accurate, and you could have jumped on that and destroyed his argument, but you decided to get offended instead.
>>152794622He's British, the eternal Anglo tends to get under people's skin regardless of what they say.
>>152804183>a three letter response in mockery is being offendedYou don't need to save face on an anonymous imageboard. You said something silly and got called out on it. Nobody's going to try and "destroy" it because it's too petty for the effort.
/pol/ thread
>>152804258So like 50% of /co/?Joke aside, you always have /co/ people lurking /co/, waiting jump into threads.
>>152803016Being conservative is and always was a negative threat. And in combination with religion it becomes a bigger negativity. Noone likes people like Newt Gingrich or Soccermoms.
>>152803580They are not likeable. Thats why brookers and bankers are used as villians or negative examples.
