Well, I just finished this and really didn't like it. I just don't think I enjoy Garth Ennis' writing.
>>152804046Oh and reading the about how sales actually improved after the first 12 issues was unexpected because I actually think the first 12 are somewhat decent but the later part is bad.
>>152804046It's just le-edgy writing.
>>152804093It's not just that, I mean the humor is just very juvenile but it's not that annoying. But his writing in general, like how his protagonists just embody this idea of macho that he thinks is cool but is just cringe, like how everyone jut instantly just likes Jesse and he's never wrong and he can beat up 20 people at once in the way that not even Batman does. Or how later on when Cassidy made a complete turn and you actually saw his flashbacks and everything and he was a good friend but then he goes full 180 and he's the biggest piece of shit ever and Ennis just had to show him suck a dick because he's bad and bad guys get fucked up the ass and shit themselves while the good guys never get raped or tortured on pissed on or anything.
Anyway, somehow the art is worse than the writing. I applaud Steve Dillon for drawing all 66 issues, but his art sucked, I know it sucked way more once he went full digital but his work was never good.
>>152804046One of my favorite comics.>>152804151Preacher is American things Ennis likes. Jesse is the quintessential American tough sonuvabitch, practically superhuman even without The Word.Cassidy is a character right out of Naked Lunch.>>152804182I like the art, but mostly the early portions. Later in the comic, the Dillonface was more prominent.
>>152804252>practically superhuman even without The Word.And it's stupid. At one point I actually thought he was writing Jesse as a hypocrite with his "fuck God" shtick, but no, he was supposed to be right even though he was a crybaby moron the entire time. He just goes too far, Jesse doesn't even feel human, and Starr is too much of a clown to be taken seriously. And then there's Tulip that transforms into this female Rambo shit that just shoots over a dozen men without cover and is such a perfect shot not even action heroes in 80s movies could compete. This the same woman that couldn't hit a guy from 2 feet in her first appearance and panicked.
>>152804046I gave up after the first city arc. Up until then, I could tolerate it because of the city's microcosm, where all the caricatured characters adhered to the theme, but as soon as that arc ended and the protagonist and the vampire sat in a bar to have the most cringe-worthy and edgy dialogue possible about a TV show, I couldn't take it anymore and realized it was garbage.
>>152804290It gets worse. There's no real logic to anything happening, at one point he just writes a pure filler arc that goes on for like 12 issues or so just so he can reach 66 issues.
And the thing about Dillon isn't just his Dillonface but he doesn't do any interesting and cool designs, he doesn't draw cool monsters or effects or anything. And as far as his composition and sequential storytelling, it's ass. Just look at this sequence, I legit had no idea what even happened.
>>152804376Like... how?
>>152804046>Garth Pennis and Piss Dilluted
>>152804046It’s probably aged the worst of his comics with the Bill Hicks shit. His Marvel MAX stuff is the best followed by Hitman
>>152804491>Marvel MAX stuffI will never believe you.
>>152804046Never got the praise for it either.
You guys are too dumb for Preacher, and that's a feat.
>>152805914No, you're the dumb one.
>>152805976No, I actually understood what it was going for.
>>152804046His stuff in Hellblazer was great. Don't think I even got a fourth of the way through Preacher though, just didn't interest me very much.
>>152804046it was good but very 90s
>>152804385He punted him over.
Preacher is his most inspired work. If you don't like Preacher then yeah you probably won't like anything by Ennis.
>>152804480LOL!
>>152804287Tulip overcame her aversion to firearms and goes full Nikita, and Starr is a comic relief villain. >>152804290Are you talking about the Chaplin vs. Laurel and Hardy conversation?>>152804376He brings a level of grit to his relatively clean art that I enjoy. Also good at expressions and pretty consistent with character faces, admittedly to a fault. It really bothers me when an artist draws the same character face differently, sometimes on the same angle, like its an entirely different person. He drew some mean-looking motherfuckers too. I like his jagged paneling, almost seems buoyant upon the page. To me, his storytelling was on point most of the time, as was his composition.I honestly really like Dillon, especially on this comic.>>152808919It makes sense, but some people are very bothered by the comic's anti-theist sentiment and 90s topics.
>>152805914how doe this relate to your fear of being in Northern Ireland
>>152806273So far all you've proven is that you're very stupid.
>>152808919I like his Hellblazer, admittedly, I liked it a whole lot less than Delano's but it's his best work. Preacher was just... stupid. A lot of the conflicts are stretched out not only because he doesn't use the word, but because he just decides to do a macho speech or something instead of settling things and then ends up settling things anyway a few issues later, the whole Salvation arc is exactly that. And things always just end up working out in the end.>>152808794How? He didn't use his left arm so he just kicks him but he kicks him to the side instead of forward? And his bodyguard's reaction of rushing him and grabbing him by the leg and getting so surprised by a prosthetic leg when he was hyper competent previously is just stupid.>>152809611>Tulip overcame her aversion to firearmsExcept we're shown in the flashback that she was using guns ever since she was a teenager. And of course she was incredible at it, and of course she had top grades too because she's a genius, oh and she's incredibly beautiful too, not that you'd know if from Dillon's art but she's supposed to be a beauty. Oh and a virgin when she met Jesse but she still fucked on the first night, and then when she though he was dead she only needed a few weeks to fuck Cassidy.
>>152810147Preacher is better than his Hellblazer, which is better than Delano's.
>>152809611>and Starr is a comic relief villain.He's the only villain in the damn comic.
>>152810485I wish /co/ still had human posters to argument their points instead of posting some bot like garbage like this. Preacher is stupid, the narrative lacks stakes because the mains are hyper competent while the people after them are hyper incompetent and things always have a way of working out in the end like how Arseface becomes an overnight sensation which I get that it's a joke but it's stretched out over half the entire run and then he loses everything but it's okay because he falls in love at first sight with a frek and that naratively makes sense because it's not like you've seen him get with countless of actual beautiful groupies. Or how after they get rid of bad midget in Salvation, his twin brother good midget shows up and is actually a good and honest man and gives everyone good honest and well paying jobs. Nothing has any bite, Saint of Killers' origin isn't particularly sad, he suffered but not THAT much and blaming God for everything is just stupid from a narrative point of view.The ending just makes no sense, why the fuck would Jesse sacrifice himself just to kill God? And for that matter why didn't he just use the word on him as soon as he could when they met earlier? Because the series had to be artificially extended, of course. And why was Tulip so mad that "he didn't trust her to have his back again" when in reality there was nothing to trust, he wanted to die, and she should've been upset over that not Ennis' retarded "brotherhood in arms" shit.It's just a bad series and posts like yours only make it look even worse.
>>152810147Her dad's death scarred her. She used a shotgun as a last resort to save her friend, but she hated it. >>152810492The Saint of Killers, Jody, Marie L'Angelle, The Grail, God.
>>152810510Preacher is a great series, and your dissection is a bunch of autistic gripes, like you don't understand how fiction works. Meanwhile, Delano's Hellblazer is bad and dull for a large part of the run and made a mess of the groundwork laid by Moore. Around the time Ridgway leaves, the art is an abomination for a while, much worse any of Dillon's work on Preacher. From there through The Fear Machine, it's just bad comics.
>>152810515>The Saint of KillersNot really a villain. >Jody, Marie L'Angelle,Die a quarter through the series>The GrailRepresented by Starr whom you said is a comic relief villain and by extension so is The Grail>GodNot a real character, just a sort of end goal>She used a shotgun as a last resort So she does overcome in years prior. And then she overcomes it again when she decides to become a hitwoman but can't shoot a guy from 2 feet away. Nevermind that one of the things her and Amy bonded over was guns. It's called a retcon, she was turned from a scared woman to a super soldier genius beauty.You can tell that Ennis just didn't care that's why he has Amy get a couple of millions of dollars and then a few years later they all magically disappear and they have to steal cars for a living and even though you see them in high sped chases that results in explosions and obviously collateral damage, they're not bad people, it's that pesky God because he didn't just make it rain money when they were in need.
>>152810559>like you don't understand how fiction works.Ironic comign from you. I told you with examples why it's bad. Things just happen and then things just work themselves out, I gave you the Salvation example with the midget. It's just bad writing. You wouldn't get it because Delano's Hellblazer is for adults and Preacher is for dumb teenagers. You'll get mad at this truth, you'll get triggered but it is what it is. Skill issue.
>>152804046Ennis ruined Comics.
>preacher>it's preachyFigures.
Guys, what if Christians and conservatives are... le BAD!
>>152810771I don't care what your opinions on religion are, but this entire things is just made for the purpose of making braindead religious zealous freak out and breaindead snotty atheists howl in satisfaction.
>>152810771>le BAD
>dude God is the worst because he made it rain and so put in motion the chain events that led to my family dying
>>152804046This comic is highly satanic. It was just made to upset good little christians
>>152804046I got to the last arc but I couldn't finish it. The phrase "literary Mountain Dew" kept coming to mind as I advanced in it until I wasn't interested anymore.
>>152810984The ending is really awful.
>>152804046Ennis is a pretty bad writer but he's still better than 99% of comic book writers ever.
>>152811291This.
>>152804079it was different time. Back then it was subversive. ennis in general aged very BADLY
>>152812445>le agedNot sure if you people are even real at this point.
>>152804046Schizo, you need to get over it already.
>>152810515>The Saint of KillersDoesn't really feel like one, especially that he's way too sympathetic. The only thing attempt at making him a villain is when he kills a woman in a fit of rage, who was used as a shield by some cunt jerk. But I'm not a simp, so I did not change my opinion about the character>JodyKinda, but again, the one-shot, where he is shown more sympathetically kinda kills the image of a villain>Marie L'AngelleOkay, she might be somewhat a villain, albeit quickly offed>The GrailMore like retards and comedy relief, it was impossible to treat them seriously>GodOnly if you're an edgy faglord, but sure, why not
>>152810485>Preacher is better than his Hellblazer, which is better than Delano's.And the award for the gayest opinion ever goes to anon
>>152811291>still better than 99% of comic book writers ever.only if you compare him to post 2000 writers
>>152812467Nothing is real, it's all matrix. Jump out of the window anon, and you'll see it too
>>152812481You ok lil guy?
>>152810584Your examples is tarded.>Ugh, why is the bad guy not serious? Ugh, why did this have a comedic resolution? That doesn't happen in real life.It's funny you call yourself an adult, but your complaints are very childish. Opinions are not truths. You're malding about something you don't understand or don't like. Skill issue suits you better.
>>152812629>replying to made up argumentshow disingenuous
>>152812531Are you gonna try to challenge it, or nah? >>152810559>>152812640Another word that suits you better.
>>152812562No, all writers of all time. This industry was always full of shit writers.
>>152812629My examples are that serious moments are presented as slapstick but I'm supposed to take it seriously. Aside from inserting supernatural elements, the series has a pretty realistic world, it's basically capeshit in that regard.Ironic that you're saying I'm malding when that's exactly what you're doing, malding because someone doesn't like the comic you do, but while I can present arguments with examples for why I don't like it, you can't do the same so you just resort to hurling insults like a dimwit. The writing is full of retcons and it's jarring because they break the story, Sain of Killers wasn't fully fleshed out when introduced so when you find out that his guns can kill everything, you can't help but laugh at the sloppy writing because early on he couldn't kill a lousy vampire.
>>152804531Punisher is easily the most beloved stuff he's done.
>>152804385This one is pretty clear. Hetries to grab onto Starr's leg, not realizing or remembering it's a prosthetic, and pulls it. In his startled/disgusted state, Starr easily takes him by surprise and kills him.It's not visually exciting but it works.
>>152812842By marveldrones and their standards are significantly lower.
>>152812866He can sense snipers from miles away but a prosthetic leg stuns him for so long? And this entire plan hangs on the guy to rush him and grab the leg instead of just kicking him over the ledge or, y'know, pull out a gun and just shoot him from the start. And Starr's pose in the first panel still makes no sense.
>>152812877If anything Punisher Max is the one thing he's done that has fairly large crossover appeal.
>>152812729Jamie’s run is much better because it comes from a genuine place. His John is the definitive John because Jamie was the only one who could write a cynical, bitter Anglo working class con because that’s who Jamie was. And no other subsequent writer could ever pull off what he could, especially not Ennis.
>>152812911>He can sense snipers from miles away but a prosthetic leg stuns him for so long?It's been a while since I read this, was that character anyone consequential? I thought he was just a bodyguard. Anyway, decided to reread these pages. So he seems to have just kicked Eisenstein off the ledge(which explains the cane in the air). I agree it's a big vague and would've done better if there was some indication of a scream over the edge or Eisenstein's body.The bodyguard could very well just be sloppy though, and unprepared for Starr being an amputee and expected more of a fight from him. Like a lot of things with Starr, his haplessness is played for humor.
>>152813043No, the defitive version of Constantine was from Brian azzarello, said so by Alan moore him self. And mind you, alan has met Constantine in real life.
>>152813086>was that character anyone consequential? I thought he was just a bodyguard.There were various pages of him quickly disposing of assassins that Starr sent prior to this so he was not sloppy he was a bona fide badass. Kicking him makes no real sense considering Eisenstein's height, at best Star would grab him with both hands and shove him over while tripping him but his leg is too high up for it and his right hand is far away. It's just bad art either way you put it, it fails to present the action that is supposed to be taking place.As for "it's just humor" isn't it a crutch when you keep just repeating the same thing over and over? And did we really need more humor when just a few pages after this his dick gets eaten? And do you not think it's wasteful to draw a dozen if not more pages to establish the bodyguard as hyper competent only for it to lead to "lol so silly it's just humor" ?
Stuff like Preacher and Warren Ellis work always filled me with disgust as a teenager getting into comics. Part of it was my own conflicted relationship with Christianity and how much these writers went out of their way to hate religion and Christianity specifically. It all came off as very lopsided in the 2000's when Islamic terrorism was reaching a fever pitch. Garth Ennis talked about the Troubles affecting him but it was all very distant for him and he's admitted not dealing wit it personally, meanwhile there was a threat of terrorist attacks for years here and it changed how we commuted and how security was handled, kept us in a years long war, etc. Garth Ennis seemingly has lived a comfortable middle class life his entire life and never done physical labor, so he comes off as a spoiled gen Xer crying about stupid ass shit. And on top of it it's just so cynical and angry and bitter.Just deeply unpleasant to read. So many of Ellis and Ennis' works are. These were held up as high points of American comics of the era and I just ended up being repulsed and hating them. I ended up just retreating into older American superhero stuff from the 80's/90s and manga with some European stuff, though the latter was more piecemeal.
>>152813491Ya ruined it.
>>152813292I hate to sound so defensive since I don't think the page or , but yeah I can see the idea that this highly trained operative being wholly unprepared and taken by a hapless cripple, and doing so after so many pages showing him as decently skilled seems like a payoff to that joke. It might be over played but at the very least I get why they'd go with it. I totally agree that the kicking off a ledge is pretty sloppy though.
>>152812800No, you're complaining about comedic elements and moments not being serious. It's been a long time, but I'm pretty sure Delano's Hellblazer isn't consistent either and would fail with this level of scrutiny.Also, you started with the insults.>>152813043Preacher came from a genuine place.And the definitive version of Constantine is from Moore's Swamp Thing. Delano, in fleshing out Constantine's life and environment, did not live up to that. The Ennis run had more fire to it.
>>152813685But all I'm saying is that when everything is a joke, how do you expect me to take your series in the least bit seriously?>>152813685 If it weren't for the demon dog at the end providing the dick eating joke, sure, but as it stands he's too much of a clown and by extension The Grail is too stupid and incompetent. And it's still one of the "smart because he can predict future actions" type of deals that hacks often use. Maybe just have the bodyguard panic and run to try and catch Eisentein and then Starr just kicks him in the ass and he goes over, gloats and then the dig eats his dick. As it stands it's just... dumb. The prosthetic leg sequence really isn't funny, as you said the pay off of him dying a stupid death after being shown to be ultra competent can work, but even then it just means everyone except Jesse and Tulip are incompetent imbeciles.>>152813688But it's supposed to be serious too, it's not just a comedy series and it doesn't work when everything is resolved by a joke. You're ignoring how problems just get resolved off screen and it's just lazy bad writing and if that's not bad writing then what is? Stop trying to move the discussion away from Preacher, if you like it so much then defend it, don't try to deflect to Delano's Hellblazer, it's irrelevant to the issue at hand. This shit us why comic book discussion on /co/ is dead, people lile you can't argue in favor of a comic they like so they just ask the other poster for comics they like so you an trash them. Do you honestly expect me to respect your opinion on Hellblazer and your flimsy criticism when you can't even defend a comic you claim to like? And you keep ignoring examples of bad writing just to hurl insults. The whole Salvation arc is nothing but filler, making everyone incompetent save for your main characters is not entertaining and blatant lazy retcons that you don't even bother to smooth them in is the very definition of bad writing.
>>152813688>The Ennis run had more fire to it.Sure… if Ennis got his brains caved in by hoodlums in North Ireland after penning his last issue of Hellblazer in December 1992. Ennis shit the bed and made it Beta-Preacher when Hellblazer became Vertigo. People give Fear Machine shit, and rightfully so, but the last two years of Ennis’ run is dogwater. The First of the Fallen was overexposed and lost his luster after getting punked three times, Gabriel didn’t amount to anything in the end, Vampire King didn’t amount to anything in the end, John’s romance with Kit was ass since Ennis can’t write women to save his life. While Delano had the right idea to have John’s romantic woes confined to one issue, Ennis made it into an entire unsatisfying arc.
>>152804046>I just don't think I enjoy Garth Ennis' writing.Garth Ennis is that kid in middle school that wore black button up collared shirts with flames, a fedora, and parachute pants while yelling 'Fuck the school!' in the hallways and you thought he was funny. Fast forward 20 years and you've grown up and matured and you see Ennis again, but he's still wearing the same black button up collared shirts with flames, a fedora, and parachute pants trying to be edgy and counterculture. Garth Ennis is stuck in his adolescent mentality.
>>152813929>Garth Ennis is that kid in middle school that wore black button up collared shirts with flames, a fedora, and parachute pantsNah that's Ellis.
>>152813929yeah, ennis peaked in middle school, unlike you, whose entire existence has been meaningless
>>152804046Ennis is a faggot, I still remember reading the boys and getting to the page where his edgy OC Butcher tortures and kills Ennis' version of Captain america while calling him a phony. The irony of course is that Captain America was created by Kirby who actually fought in WWII, unlike chickenhawk Ennis who clearly loves war but has no interest in fighting one.
>>152813841I'm not addressing the resolutions oo much because it's been a while since I last read it. However, your criticisms are so nitpicky and off-base, I really cannot go by anything you say. You keep trying to apply a serious reading to the comedic parts, and you also keep claiming the comedic parts are meant to be serious. You're firing off tons of criticisms, and when they're explained to you, you just go>well that's dumbAre you expecting me to consult the book and debunk and address every single one of your claims, to get responses like this? Sorry, but I don't have time for that shit. You come off as autistic, so I can't trust you to be reasonable. Comic book discussion is dead primarily because we share a board with cartoons, secondly because comics are dying, and thirdly because so much of it is quibbling, like what you're doing along with some of the posts you're agreeing with.
>>152814599Why does Ennis hate Captain America?
>>152814599Captain America is a very stupid character though.
>>152814622How is stating that a year's worth of issues is filler nitpicky? How is pointing out blatant retcons or how he always makes things work out in the end nitpicky? You're excusing everything with "it's just comedy" but the romance between Jese and Tulip, all those conversations about Haurel and Hardy or Bill Hicks, the way his dad got his medal of honor, they're just stupid and they're supposed to be serious. The cringy talk he has with Cas at the end, that's not supposed to be humor it's just cringe.How is it not dumb that the midget's twin brother shows up and fixes everything because he's just the goodest boy around? It's just bad writing, plain and simple.
Wait,Mark Millar and Garth Ennis are not the same person?
>>152804046Why'd you read the whole thing? Because you're stupid?>>152810616Superheroes ruined comics.>>152813929Do grow up. There's nothing wrong with embracing your youthfulness.
>>152814731
>>152813157Of course Moore would praise the writer who had Constantine be raped by a dog.
>>152814731>Why'd you read the whole thing? Because you're stupid?Come on, anon. Even to the purpose of trolling, this is pretty played out by now. The point of completing a work you're not vibing with is to be able to have the entire work in your head to try and fully critique it. If OP hadn't, then there'd be idiots saying "uh, you can't say that, you didn't even read all of it!"If you're posting on a place like fucking 4chan nowadays, you're almost certainly the kind of nerd who enjoys thinking about works beyond just reading them.
>>152804046Preacher is very hit an miss and depends entirely on your tolerance for his juvenile sense of humor. That said I believe his Hitman and Punisher Max books are unironically great with no caveats, they're his best qualities on display with a minimum amount of the bullshit so I'd genuinely suggest you at least try them out especially when they're some of his most accessible work since he was tardwrangled a bit by editorial.
>>152814701Millar fucking wishes, I genuinely think he's one of the worst mainstream writers out there. He's not as transgressive as some of the other touted examples but in pure technique he has got to be one of the absolute worse, he's just fucking awful. I have read almost all his books out of spite and not a single one of them gets above just okay.
>>152814644He considers putting a flashy, pg-rated superhero into WW2 as a mockery of the real conflict, which is gritty and depressing, and just kind of extends that thought to Captain America as a whole. Ennis has a real love for soldiers, he gets very overprotective of them.
>>152817952I think Preacher belongs at the same level as Hitman and Punisher MAX. They're his holy trinity. OP is not going to like those either.
>>152820023of course not, hes a retard normy who doesnt know shit about what garth ennis is about. "i read it and it was edgy and juvenile", water is also wet
>>152820023I like all three but it's obvious that those two are more accessible than Preacher for people that don't like the Dillon faces and edgy humor. Hitman is toned down a lot since he's having to operate under DC editorial and Punisher MAX is a lot more serious in tone.
>>152814622>Sorry, but I don't have time for that shit.>hurr durr why no comic book discussion on /co/?Maybe cartoonfags aren't autistic pretentious retards like you that "don't have time" to discuss something they claim to like.
>>152812993It's shit, easily worse than Preacher.
