well SHIT, Chuck is right and we all know it
>>152990342Chuck is COPING
>>152990342i don't know who any of these people are, or what they're talking about
Was Jon Kent turning bisexual earned?What's the dumbest thing Chuck Dixon wrote into canon?
>>152990342Taylor is a faggot
>>152990384Are you a cartoonfag?If so, no shit you don't know who they are
>>152990342Chuck? More like Sneed.
>>152990377He's somewhat right. Canon in comic books isn't really determined until years after a comic comes out because if people don't respond well then they often just pretend something didn't happen or retcon it as soon as possible.
>>152990384
>>152990384I barely even read comics and I still know who both of those people are.
>>152990342Context?
>>152990342I don't like Chuck Dixon, but he's right, canon is what people remember, not what you assert.
>>152990407I do actually agree with that. There was a time when there were a lot of retcons, but mostly things just get memory holed these days.That said, Chuck isn't in any position to declare anyone a tourist, since he's been off the island for 30 years. He is coping hard.
>>152990407So, what you're saying is, canon literally doesn't exists and it's up to whoever is consuming the product.
>>152990407That's got to be the worst feeling as a writer. You make something, even if it's trash and then everyone collectively decides to ignore it because it's so bad it shouldn't even be acknowledged.I'm glad I don't read comic books.
>>152990403Anon that's like 98% of the board
>>152990404Kek
>>152990342Based
>xitter slap fightI don't care if he's "notable." This is embarrassing. Chuck Dixon? More like CHUCK DICK SUCK.
>>152990454At this point, yeah pretty much>>152990450It feels like he knows Tom is just an unpopular figure who people like to shit on and felt it would be good publicity for his current projects.
>>152990404>Trollface_non-free.pnghow much do i owe you boss
>>152990454Lurk moar
>>152990342It's canon if it's recognized by the publisher. Even the worst hacks have made something that's horrible but it's still canon. Now if Tom is saying something is canon on twitter but it isn't in a comic then it's not canon or at best up to anyone until it's confirmed or dismissed in a published comic or stated as such by an editor.
Reminder that even zoomers on comic twitter thinks Chuck Dixon writes homosexuality better than Tom Taylor does intentionally
>>152990384Taylor wrote an issue of Detective Comics where Black Canary bested Bruce in a sparring match.Taylor received backlash from Batman fans and decided to invite it on his page. He boasted how he didn’t care about negative the responses and logged off to focus on a film he is working on (probably about the main characters son being a fag)Now he’s @Gail Simone for back-up.
>>152990579People have largely accepted Bruce isn't THE best at the individual things he doesMartial arts?Lady Shiva, Cassandra Cain, Richard Dragon, etcDetective work?Elongated Man, Detective Chimp, and IIRC even Tim Drake is better than him Batman is impressive because he's excellent in multiple fields rather than just specializing even if he's not min-maxxed
>>152990509What fish izzat?
>>152990579>powerlevelfaggotryOh this is even dumber than I originally thought it'd be. Everyone involved is automatically wrong because of that.
>>152990544A few people talked about this on here a while back.But Jay Nakamura's problem is that he's just "generic 90s arm candy.. but gay."Tom feels like one of those writers who puts this kind of stuff in solely for the sake of congratulating himself on putting this kind of stuff in.
>>152990544*writes homosexuality unintentionally Basically almost every time Chuck tries to downplay sexuality it just makes the characters look gay or asexuality
>>152990387Most of his Year One books.
>>152990647>hurr I enable cultural vandalism if it's vaguely associated with a thing I pettily seethe about
>>152990541>It's canon if it's recognized by the publisher.It's only canon if it was established by the original creator. Everything else is effectively fan fiction.
>>152990678I don't know, it was either he or Greg Land trying to make Dinah and Barbara sexy and they only made them look like a pair of lesbians in a platonic relationship.
>>152990454Always has been. This dosen’t just apply to comics ether look at any nerd media Star Trek, horror movies, Star Wars, doctor who, and cartoons. Canon is just justifying the means of the story at the time. What’s canon today could be contending yes tomorrow and in the end it’s what the viewer takes away from it art is as has always will be up to the beholder to decide why it means. Regardless of what anyone tells you. You decide what you take away from it. That’s why no matter what any fag says Superman will always beat Batman.
>>152990342Nothing is truly canon until it survives a reboot.
Based Chuck, he's right btw. Bisexual Jon has been rejected into oblivion by literally everyone (gay people included) and only Tom and a handfull of editorial believe it to be canon.
>>152991035This is evil, moronic shit
>>152990342>>152991339Crimson-Chin ass.
>>152990342>>152991339I think he's sexy with his bug chin and jaw line.
>>152990342>>152991339I think he's sexy with his big chin and jawline.
>>152990429I dunno. I remember Tim under Dixon being scared of vagina. I get that it was because Dixon wanted him to be a good christian boy that didn't have sex before marriage, but tripled down on it so hard that it just came off as gay.Tim was way more straight under PAD in Young Justice, for example.
>>152991035t. Outdated subhuman who doesn't respect that humanity has moved past the need for individual narratives.Mass communication and online fractionation has made the moral and social for singular narratives and truths more important than ever, and to that end even the smallest shit like adherence to comic book canons are needed to reinforce cultural consensus.
>>152990428i believe black canary beat the shit out of batman or Bruce to be specific in one of Taylors recent issues, so is it canon or just a delusional writer doing his thing
>>152990342was is this about?to see if I agree with Chuck, or if I should call him a faggot like Taylor
>>152990387I thought his nightwing was pretty trash and it's amazing, or rather a shame, that it still serves as the basis for solo nightwing to this day. It's particularly jarring since he made an extremely decent robin, heavy handed preaching issues aside
>>152990579BC being able to beat Bruce in a sparring match shouldn't be much of a problem. Back when DC cared about this kinda stuff they both floated around top 10 martial artists in the world. Of all the cheap shit Taylor does this shouldn't sound the horns
>>152991403Sans Birds of Prey, most of characters that Dixon wrote during his run were actually characterized better in other books. That is why people has some rose tinted glasses over his work.
>>152991573It happened in that chapter, then it's that writer's canon. Don't like it? Then ignore it exists. Resort to whichever author you like and support their content.
>>152990342>>152990579I generally agree.If someone somehow bought Sherlock Holmes from Doyle before public domain and started peppering in scenes insisting that actually Watson was the real brains and just subtly left clues and whispered theories around Holmes until he stumbled on it, it wouldn't make it canon just because they're the owner now.However, the push for Dinah to be considered a formidable martial artist has been long thing, and I haven't really been against or for it, but the thing is whenever it's insisted through her randomly smacking around heroes to remind the reader instead of practically using her skills is when I feel like I'm reading less of a story and more a Forum post argument. It's the same with any character in fact. Like every time someone shows up smarter than Reed but doing little beyond much tell with scarce show.Though I should clarify and be honest that what I mean is a very specific thing of an organic, natural display of skills. When Tim was being fluffed up in his Red Robin thing as seconds from being damn near Batman to the point Ra's called him Detective, that just comes off as inorganic even if it's not as heavy handed as him outwitting Bruce and having the whole Batfam say it.I don't know, man, just don't write visibly contrived tripe.
>>152990403
>>152991845right but you do understand that Sherlock Holmes was a character ACD hated and tried to kill off several times, in addition to writing some of the most boring stories he could think of in hopes of putting readers off, and in addition to writing Holmes as an obviously full of shit idiot?"once you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth" isn't deductive reasoning, it's inductive reasoning, or maybe at best abductive reasoningthis is not a big secret and is well understood by people who read real big boy books, but is ignored by people who want Watson to be a buffoon because he was played that way by Nigel Bruce while Holmes being a massive junkie and a total cunt was styled off by Basil Rathboneeventually ACD just kind of gave up and wrote Holmes as like a 100 year old beekeeper defeating the fucking Kaiser or something, because it was what people wanted, but he never really stopped either despising the character or simply revising Holmes' ability, setting, even history and age as and when the story was simpler to write that wayyou know if you're holding up ACD's Sherlock fucking Holmes as some paragon of continuity buddy you have not read quite a lot of boring short stories aimed at simpletons by an author who really longed to write shit about dinosaurs inside the earth like Jules Verne or to get away with the kind of nonsensical crap Poe had done decades before and Lovecraft was artlessly imitatingis it any wonder ACD started believing all kinds of crazy shit
Canon is established by the IP's owner. If the owner licenses out the IP to people that prove controversial, and they write canonical works, then that's their problem. Sega had this problem with Ken Penders, and it's why they're so controlling of the Sonic IP nowadays.
>>152991845Tim "outwitting" Ra's specifically because he's not Bruce was pretty organic and way in line with what his character had been, unless there's some details I'm forgetting. It's in the same lane as Terry being too much for the Joker due to personality differences from Bruce. Now the build up to it was pure wank, but the conclusion was fine even if the detective thing is a hammybut overall yeah, when you're flexing character traits and trivia you need to do it with a bit of skill or else it often comes off really bad even if it's "accurate" but we're diving into the capabilities of these writers in general at that point
>>152991921Fair point and better insight than I have, I'll confess, but I still feel writing after a set template forms should toe the line unless there's cause to build forward.
>>152991753It's a problem because a female that doesn't have strength based superpowers besting someone like Batman in physical combat is genuinely retarded. Your average middle school boy that plays sports is stronger and has more physical prowess than the most elite female athletes.
>>152992113sir this is capeshit. Batman regularly lost spars to a smaller girl on his own team. Hell the biggest baddest martial artist in the setting is a chinese lady, who also kicked Batman's ass several times. If you want biological realism you're in the wrong place
>>152990387When he went out of his way to write that Connor Hawke wasn’t GAY by making him have sex with his father’s rapist
>>152991907Nigga this board is comics & cartoonsIf you don't recognize Dixon or Taylor, you're outing yourself as a cartoonfagIt's no different than someone who's exclusively into comics not recognizing Alex Hirsch
>>152990342Hey remember when Chuck wrote that dogshit Richard Dragon origin series where he retconned Richard as a bullied school kid and made Richard and Shiva lovers? Or when he his idea of Nightwing was just ripping off Daredevil?
>write yourself as the OC donut steel sidekick to a character you ruined's husband
>>152992532Nobody cares about your picture books featuring gay men in spandex.
>>152990407>He's somewhat rightHe's not. I've seen /co/ get mad at writers for ignoring bad canon way too many times.
>>152990454That how ancient myths work, the real stories are the ones people wanted to keep hearing not what actually happened.
>>152992146You tell him, mr. feminist.
>>152992550>/co/ is one person
>>152990579>Taylor wrote an issue of Detective Comics where Black Canary bested Bruce in a sparring match.How is this supposed to be bad?>>152992113Yet you never whine when one man can beat up an entire room of martial artists with his fists alone, which is impossible when irl all it takes is couple of dudes to jump you are you fucked because movie choreography where every baddie just patiently waits their turn before attacking one by one before getting KO’d by single hit/kick/throw isn’t how it works, you disingenuous shithead.>>152992561/co/ posters loves to be super anal and continuity nitpick in order to shit on writers they don’t like only to not give a single shit when another writer they like does a retcon
I shit on Taylor because he gave characters secret sons or sister (Happy's tranny son,Dick's half sister) or doing retarded shit that future authors can't escape(Turning John bisexual just to made people mad, killing Chunk). I'm not gonna read his TEC run because TEC outside maybe Ram V has been crap since Layman short run.That's being said , batfaggotry and batwank deserved to be mocked, people like Dixon and Moench their works were heavily carried because Alan Grant/Wolfman/Conway gave them a good base and Batman had one of the best editor ever along Agustyn and Shooter. They barely care about the DC universe(just look at the Moench Elseworld when he shit on every superpowered character) they care to made Batman look good.Is time to put limit to the batwank so I'm fine with Dinna beating his ass
women beating men is retarded in general
>>152992665Batman doesn’t even get his ass beat, they basically shadow box without actually touching each other and Cass determines from their body movements who was the winner based on who would have landed the best blows. Throwing tantrums about that just shows how thin skin and fragile egos fanboys have
>>152992687now that's just fucking retarded
>>152992687Okay, batfags are retarded then
Dinah's gone toe to toe with Deathstroke ans Lady Shiva. She can take Bruce. Chuck is being a nigger.
>>152992788Naw Taylor is just a woke faggot who likes to write garbage
>>152992896Batman literally can lose fights to Joker, you fucking moron.
>>152992788Yeah its really funny to me that people are complaining about Batman losing to a martial arts specialist in a straight martial arts contest. It would be like if people complained about Mr. Terrific or Lex Luthor having more insight on how a machine worked then Batman.
>>152992917Kek and that's terrible writing too. Taylor sucks how are you white knighting for him?
>>152991845>it wouldn't make it canon just because they're the owner now.yes, yes it would.it would be incredibly stupid, out of character, out of the blue and readers would call it bad writing.i don't know why people conflate "canon" with "good writing, or things that make sense in their heads"it's really simple:>an official writer wrote it -> canon>anyone else wrote it -> not canon
>>152992788And it's retarded writing. In the past 30 years martial arts has been the go to skill for women characters the same way electric powers are for black people. You think a literal 90 pound child, Lady Shiva and Black Canary are the best martial artists in the universe when in the 80s nobody ranked Black Canary anywhere near the top 10 and Shiva was not beating Batman.
>>152992561I didn't say I saw one person on /co/. Majority wins out.
I love Ask Chuck Dixon. Very comfy.
>>152990342>Earn canonThis is a cope. A book doesn't have to be referenced x amount of times to become canon. If it's published then it's canon.
>>152992532>>152990403Want a prize?
>>152992985>when in the 80s nobody ranked Black Canary anywhere near the top 10 and Shiva was not beating Batman.Perhaps it had something to do with the fact that in the 80s very few women characters were given the spotlight and were allowed to be written as competent and powerful equally if not more than their male counterparts.
>>152993003lollmao
>>152990342chuck is a nortubel tier writer
>>152992788Taylor being a faggot with a disingenuous argument invited itHe could've made actual arguments for why the batwanking retards are retarded for trying to batwank instead he just declares himself God and that his authority is absolute
>>152993001Harley Quinn chumped the Trinity.
>>152993016It's not wank thoughBruce is simply a better fighter
>>152993039mastering every martial art in existence just can't match growing up with 3 brothers
>>152992511I always thought that people here were joking that Connor came off as gay during Dixon's run since I never bothered to read the run myself, but I accidentally stumbled upon a scan on one of his issues and turns out people were legit sending SNAIL MAIL to DC's offices about this
>>152993003What is this feminist tripe? An atte6to rewrite history? And by the way, Lady Shiva was considered one of the best, but not Black Canary.
>>152993061>I'll keep reading if you make him gay>I'll stop reading if you make him gay
Unironically I've noticed this going back to at least 2014 or so but why do comic writers especially try to drama farm on twitter? It's very strange. I don't think any other artistic medium has quite so many men in their 50s/60s who act like bitchy teen girls over their men in tights.
>>152993135wrestling
>>152991907
>>152991573Should've guessed it was powerlevelfaggots crying again.
>>152993067Black Canary has organically been built to be an equal and ultimately better than Shiva over the course of three decades. Dinah wasn’t that formidable of a martial artist in the 80s precisely because sexist attitudes at the time, along with not having her own title, meant nobody was that interested in making her better fighter until Gail Simone started developing her relationship with Shiva. We all know how she got treated in Grell’s GA. And how she was written in JLI.
>>152993153>you shouldn't care about the action... in an action series>it doesn't matter that I'm dedicating entire pages to it, you're the idiot if you care... about what you read
>>152993164>organicallyElaborate.
>>152993164>along with not having her own titleShe still doesn't. And the sexist attitudes of the time didn't prevent Shiva or Wonder Woman from being competent.
Why does Batman make everyone seethe so badly? I would never read Taylor garbage but if you're telling me he dedicated at least one entire page to show a character that's a better fighter asses that a second character would beat him in a fight then that's retarded. Why can't a character be competent in his own title? Why is it always Batman that needs to be "taken down a peg" when every time he guest stars in a different character's title he's a mean jerk that gets put in his place and probably gets beat in a fight too. No other character has to deal with this, nobody denies Superman is the strongest, Flash kept getting faster and faster to the point that he can't be touched and then you look at his villains and how the hell can't he handle them? You don't see Soider-man getting his ass kicked by Daredevil or Iron Fist in his own title despite them operating in the same city so it's not a stretch that they'd meet unlike plucking a non Gotham character like Black Canary and throwing her in Gotham just to show up a character in his own title. It reeks of insecurity.
>>152993189>b-b-but two characters!Yes, exactly. Women characters like Lady Shiva and Diana were far and few between. They were the notable exceptions in how women were largely written.And Shiva was primarily written by one single writer up until the early 90s: Dennis O’Neil. And even then she only appeared in Dennis edited Bat-books from what I can recall. Just because Dennis wasn’t sexist doesn’t mean the industry itself and other creators to various degrees weren’t. Just look at how Dinah was treated until the late 90s and BoP. Even then it took until the 00s for there to be more concentrated effort to start create and write more female characters that weren’t mostly just girlfriends or occasional femme fatale romantic interest villains and got more spotlight outside of being token girl heroes in a team so that it wasn’t a sausage fest
>>152993208Batman has never been the best martial artist and they had a friendly sparring session to commemorate Ted Grant, who trained both Bruce and Dinah. Why are you stupid fucks so fragile this makes you cry?
>>152993235Not the best but he was better than all of these mentioned and suddenly he's no longer. Why are you stupid fucks like this?
>>152993223Maybe Dinah just isn't a very compelling character. And trying to pretend only those two were the exceptions is... very silly.
>>152993208Under Wein and O'neil tenure others characters take down bats.It was when O'neil was too old to care when people were obsessed with Batman started at first having Bruce beating David cain, then to bring others heroes to made them looks bad , like Catwoman beating flash or Ivy controling Superman.So fuck Batman snowflakes for seethe for the same thing they love to read
>>152993562Who the fuck is David Cain? You're acting like he's Richard Dragon, he's just some non character that's made most of his under 50 appearances in the 00s in Batgirl. Fuck outta here with that shit.
>>152993261>Crying this hard because Batman didn’t win one friendly boxing sparring fight Absolutely pathetic
>>152991403>Tim under Dixon being scared of vaginaTim was just Average Anime Harem Protagonist about it though.
>>152990544>Reminder that even zoomers on comic twitter thinks Chuck Dixon writes homosexuality better than Tom Taylor does intentionallyIt's because the zoomers are the Fujoshi Audience and Tom Taylor and every progressive writer writing gays is writing open LA-gay pride-parade shit and the fujoshi audience wants repression, angst and hurt/comfort. The girls want BL-Manga Anne Rice Heated Rivalry with superheroes and they are getting RuPaul Yass Queen LA Twink Pride Parade shit.DC and Marvel will never understand the zoomer fujo audience.
>>152994130You're the one crying because I'm calling it out for being stupid.
>>152990342>Cuck Dixon
>>152994185>Average Anime Harem Protagonist about it thoughExactly, a man scared of vagina.
>>152994282>n-n-no uM’kay
>>152990342Chuck Dixon is alive?
I'm actually on Tom Taylor's side here. Fuck batwank, fuck scott snyder, and fuck all of you mouth breathing batfaggots.
>>152994342I accept your concession.
>>152993002>>152992547Dude, are you seriously this offended by this?It's a logical conclusion to make when someone shows up and doesn't recognize who Chuck Dixon and Tom Taylor are
>>152990579>Taylor wrote an issue of Detective Comics where Black Canary bested Bruce in a sparring match.That's it? Who fucking cares its gadgetless no hiding Bruce vs black canary she probably would win.
>>152990613>Batman is impressive because he's excellent in multiple fields rather than just specializing even if he's not min-maxxedA heroic Doctor Doom...Wait, how good is Doom at martial arts? I'd be surprised if he was unskilled at it.
>>152994545Dr. Doom is the best at everything he takes on. He was even Sorcerer Supreme.
>>152994544If this was a different hero getting beat by a woman you would be throwing a bitch fit.
>>152994268Kek. That's a perfect way to describe what I've been seeing. I mean I don't read any of this or engage with comic twitter but like I've seen other fandoms who have this feeling exhibit it before.
>>152990613>Martial arts?>Lady Shiva, Cassandra Cain, Richard Dragon, etc>Detective work?>Elongated Man, Detective Chimp, and IIRC even Tim Drake is better than himTrash ass characters. Batman shouldn't be the best at everything, but don't hand off these titles to a bunch of flunkies.
>>152994587Yeah, but in this case we are talking about Batman so is okey. Fuck batwank
>>152995050You can't whine about batwank while clearly showing me there's no batwank.
>>152994984You act like Bruce is a good character.Outside Dini and maybe Tomasi , his character has been garbage since 1998, even Chimp has better issues this century
>>152994587legit struggling to think of a hero who hasn't lost to several women
>>152990503about tree fiddy
>>152995092Maybe if you include comedic losses.
>>152995091>Tomasi
>>152994554>He was even Sorcerer Supreme.Who the fuck hasn't at this point
>>152990342>comics>canon
At the end of the day I don't fucking care. But Chuck is technically right. "Canon" (especially in DC) is only what sticks over time.
>>15299521199.9% of the Marvel universe.
>>152990501Tom isn't unpopular outside of toxic little shitholes.
>>152995363Dinah being one of the best non-meta martial artists has stuck
>>152993001Sure anon, lets see how a literal who writer makes Superman gay just because he woke up on the wrong side of bed
>>152994268that's funny>>152990579that's retarded
>>152996092She is a meta though.
>>152994462confession denied.
>>152990342He's right because Tom isn't the head of DC, he's just one writer among millions.
>>152990579I thought people hated him for everything else.
>>152992511...His mom?
>>152999022His mom was an Afro-Korean hippie Ollie banged decades before Shado maneuvered herself into getting a Queen kid of her own.
>>152990579It's not inconceivable Dinah could win in a spar, for multiple reasons. But she's never been shown as a top martial artist until Simone started her mary sue arc vs Shiva in BoP, and that actually didn't come off well. Questions are still unanswered.So Dixon's right.
>>152990822That was the vibe I got from Simone's writing since the Secret Files & Origins where she started on BoP.
>>152991946H.E.A.T. turned Parallax into a space bug and there's nothing you can do about it.
>>152999592Shado's kid should be nearly a decade younger than Lian Harper btw.
>>152990822Poor Dixon would tell his artists right there in the script "Don't make this gay" and they'd just ignore him.
>>152999866just destroyed his vision....fucking hack artists....
>>152999837That wasn't HEAT, that was pure Didio who gave Johns the nod. Editors couldn't care less what fans think unless the sales are dropping.
>>152999889>STOP IT, PENIS! THAT'S NOT LESBIAN! RESPECT CHUCK DIXON'S INTENTIONS!
>>152992532>cartoonfag
>>152999891Reminder Johns is part of H.E.A.T.
>>152999970It's pretty hilarious people still talk about H.E.A.T. more than 20 years after it got everything it wanted.
>>152999996I mean, they won. People like to talk about winners.
>>152999970The fuck is HEAT?
>>152999957Yeah, there are Anons who exclusively read comics or exclusively watch cartoons who go on /co/There's SOME overlap but it varies from person to personWhy do you think we have the occasional Anon suggesting a board split?
You know it's all made up right?
Hollywood has made about six million "legacy sequels" that ignore anything that was previously "canon" that they didn't like or care about.
>>153000368Even the origin of the term Canon has things which seem like continuity or translation errors.
>>153000368Also all the comic reboots keep things the writers like and discard stuff they don't. Canon is not as absolute as certain retards pretend to think.
>>153000107Hal's Emerald Attack Team, basically fans of Hal Jordan took umbrage with attempts to bury him so the new lanterns could take his spot.I have my reservations about the whole thing, especially how Johns pulled it off in canon by having every one kiss Hal's boot just for existing.BUT I have to admit looking at how characters have been treated now they have more perseverance and commitment than fans of top sellers like Batman and Spidey. If every title had its own HEAT maybe things would be chill.Sorry, I couldn't help myself.
>>153000434Shit was fucked until one of their own people came into power. So having an organized campaign isn't enough, you need to become part of the establishment.
>>153000468Power comes from organized minorities, not the disorganized mass.
>>153000499Power actually won the Chainsawmanbowl
>>153000510TRVKE
>>152990342>You have to earn canonLOL, grandpa Chuck is starting to get forgetful. The way you "earn" canon is by having your story published in a canonical comic. Which Tom did. Chuck's just mad because he used to write mary sue batgod crap and he can't handle the fact that making Batman flawed makes him more interesting.
>>153000355Okay, so Chuck is right.
>>153000668Halloween 2 was canon for like 30 years. Then it wasn't.
>>152994185The avarage anime mc is dense and/or pervy.
>>153000668He expanded on "earn canon" in a video. Writers and editors come and go, things get retconned all the time. You earn it if what you establish sticks around through all that.
>>153000755Halloween has a bunch of timelines where stuff canonicity varies, though. It's a very muddy example to pick.
>>153000468Yeah, the existence of HEAT is irrelevant. Hal would have come back even if they never existed, and the proof of that is that absolutely no one was clamoring for Barry Allen to come back.
>>153000434>Hal's Emerald Attack Team, basically fans of Hal Jordan took umbrage with attempts to bury him so the new lantern could take his spotFTFY, see Guy's warrior phase or Alan being forced to go by Sentinel, DC only wanted a single green lantern around.
>>152990454yes, that is LITERALLY what the medium always has been...
>>152993061To be fair, a lot of that is because Connor was celibate and comic readers are fucking morons so "not wanting to fuck every chick he sees" translated as "gay" to them. Just like how Tim was gay because he mourned the loss of his best friend or how Element Lad was gay because he wore a pink costume and had nice hair or how Iceman was gay because very early on he wasn't horny for Jean as a sign of his immaturity. It's honestly pathetic.That said, Dixon is a retarded asshole who somehow thought that John Severin was tricked into drawing the Rawhide Kid MAX book and somehow had no clue the pages he was drawing, worked on from a full script mind you, were about a gay character. All because Severin did a story with Dixon years earlier and was reluctant to draw a man and woman in bed together.>>153000889In Red Robin prior to Flashpoint he had things going with both Tam Fox and Lynx and especially with Lynx it was pretty explicit that he was attracted to her and it was his fear of getting involved in a complicated Bruce/Selina type of situation that was holding him back.
>>152990654Taylor literally writes comics to in a manner that's meant to be digested in pages and panels passed around on social media. He couldn't give two shits about writing a good story or even competent or real story.
>>153001130>how Element Lad was gay because he wore a pink costume and had nice hairThis one was because the authors refused to elaborate on the "I am out of my element when dating women" thought bubble, and the increasing phallic imagery of his costumes.
>>152990384I know exactly who they are, I just don't care about their fucking drama faggotry.
>>153001130>how Tim was gay because he mourned the loss of his best friendDixon made Tim so terrified of vagina that him coming out of the closet makes more sense than most other of the retroactive gay-enings (Iceman, Alan Scott).
>>152991845The Dinah thing is basically compensation, maybe even overcompensation, for how Grell used her which was very, very poorly in a way that damn near made her unusable.
>>153001214Dixon is retarded but no. Again it's a case of "guy doesn't want to immediately stick his dick in everything, must mean he's gay" mentality. Dixon did it because he's iffy on characterization and waned to push his "NOOOOOO PRE-MARITAL SEX AND ANYTHING THAT COULD LEAD TO HANKY PANKY BEFORE A CHURCH, YOUR PARENTS AND GOD BLESSES YOUR UNION IS A SIN" bullshit much like how Stephanie was a walking teen pregnancy PSA.
>>152994381His career died decades ago.
Also I assume, like all defenders of making characters gay based on largely non-existant outside of headcanon subtext, that you're arguing in bad faith. I straight up hate shit like that because it's essentially people inserting meaning into works that doesn't actually exist but and then argue that it's totally real subtext that they can see and thus it's as valid what is actually written on the page or intended by the person writing it.No, your made up headcanon is not valid. If the author didn't intend it then it doesn't exist. It would be equally as stupid to take a character intended to be gay but struggling with commiting himself to dating or hooking up with a guy and going "SEE!? HE'S AFRAID OF PENIS AND BEING GAY THAT MEAN'S HE'S ACTUALLY STRAIGHT!" and then canonizing it by having him fuck women.
>>153001725Shooter also called Dream Girl a slut which is retarded considering she was so loyal to her boyfriend she quit the Legion to be with him after he got kicked out for killing a guy. I like and respect Big Jim a lot but that doesn't mean I think his interpretations are all correct, especially in cases (like Dream Girl) where they explicitly go against what's actually written.
>>153001809The Legion writers are notorious for hating her, to the point the fans voted Dream Girl as the leader out of spite.
>>153001682I think sexuality fan theories are as valid as any other type of fan theory. It's just a problem that a majority of people who make those theories are 100 times more annoying than anyone else because if you call their theory retarded they will resort to calling you homophobic and try to use social pressure to force creators into subjugating to their theory by waving around social issues. And most modern comic writers are retarded progressives who will bend the knee if enough annoying queers call them homophobic over something.
>>152990342Both these men are bitches. Batwank is lame but so is everything about Tom Taylor.
>>153001130>>That said, Dixon is a retarded asshole who somehow thought that John Severin was tricked into drawing the Rawhide Kid MAX book and somehow had no clue the pages he was drawing, worked on from a full script mind you, were about a gay character. All because Severin did a story with Dixon years earlier and was reluctant to draw a man and woman in bed together.I wouldn't say that's retarded, he simply didn't understand Severin's own personal morality.
>>153001947>I think sexuality fan theories are as valid as any other type of fan theory.This is true in that they're not valid at all. You can headcanon that a character is gay and write slashfic and make gay art but that doesn't mean the character is actually gay and thus your interpretation holds no value. You do not get to insert non-existant meaning into a work and then claim it's as legitimate as what's actually textually written and displayed on the page.>>153002056No, that is retarded because he assumes he knows based on one limited interaction he had with him years prior and then spins that off into a giant conspiracy where Marvel took this old man and tricked him into drawing a story about a gay cowbay without ever telling him it was about a gay cowboy and if he actually knew he never would have done it. Here's his actual quote about it.>But am I to understand that John Powers Severin is drawing this wretched piece of exploitational trash? John objected to (but finally drew) a western story I wrote in which an unmarried couple were shown together in bed. (this was for the more adult-oriented 'Savage Tales' magazine.) Could he have willingly participated in this? I doubt it very strongly. I'll bet he was handed a plot with no idea that the subject of the Rawhide Kid's 'secret' would be revealed in the dialogue.And here's Severin's.>Severin: It's kind of weird. (laughs) I guess, yeah, I think the information is already out there. The Rawhide Kid is rather effeminate in this story. It may be quite a blow to some of the old fans of Rawhide Kid. But it's a lot of fun and he's still a tough hombre.
Comic writers got an ego the size of mars. I follow manga writers and artists and all they got is two settings "please enjoy my work" and " I'm dying. Sorry for the inconvenience"
>>153002126I wouldn't come up with a conspiracy about it I'd be rather "huh" if I knew an artist who was repulsed at drawing a scene suggesting fornication but then later was totally okay with drawing a series filled with jokes about how the main character is gay. Dixon thought he was more conservative than he was, turned out he's just very particular.
>>152990454No retardHes saying that all the crap comics coming out arent canon until the company actually chooses to stick with somethingAnd this jack off isnt the one who decides what is canonSo he can spout a bunch of shitIt actually raises the chance that what he wanta doesnt become canon because of how pissed everyone is to his comments
>>153002223>Comic writers got an ego the size of marsIt's hard to understand where this comes from considering how even comics written by the "best" writers sell like shit and most of them had to resort to writing comics because they aren't talented enough to write for television/movies or have their own original works get published.
>>153002752Presumably high amounts of control over famous characters.
>>153002902Don't they have editors to keep them under control?
>>153002223A lot of manga creators have egos but the culture means you need to be self-deprecating and act as if you don't.
>>153002989Which doesn't work if the editors themselves are like that
>>152990342>xitter thread
>>152999771>until Simone started her mary sue arc vs Shiva in BoP, and that actually didn't come off well.Stop trying to rewrite history. Everyone loved Gail’s BoP and Dinah’s Shiva relationship especially was well liked and worked fine
>>153000755Yes and it keeps being canon to its sequels. The new trilogy timeline doesn’t make it any less valid because it’s fucking fiction, not real.
>>153001130>To be fair, a lot of that is because Connor was celibate Dixon didn’t write Connor as just “celibate” though. He intentionally wrote it as a gag that basically every woman wanted to fuck Connor (because Ollie was a ladies man) but he didn’t understand what was going on because he was so “pure” and “spiritual”. Except in practice it never read as him just having relinquished material things and being beyond having sexual urges, it just came off as him being gay when he was super popular with women and he never had any interest in them beyond being friends even when he was being kissed. Dixon is very obsessed with this chaste idea of boys that always makes his characters seem all the more gay as a result. Especially when it was written in the 90s when the norm to depict young dudes was them going AWOOOOGA on any pretty girl, let alone ones that were throwing themselves at them.>Just like how Tim was gay because he mourned the loss of his best friend There’s mourning and then there’s “I keep trying to clone him and also I’m hooking up with his girlfriend so that I could still have something of him around me”. It was absolutely demented and weirdly sexual.
>>153005237Him being bad at portraying chaste characters doesn't mean interpreting them as gay is valid. Liefeld also intended Shatterstar to be the same way and of course, again, it was interpreted (and then later canonized) as gay because fans are stupid and literally cannot comprehend a male character not wanting to fuck every chick that walks into his field of view.Agan, your arguments are basically "the writer didn't write this but it's kind of incompetent therefore it's pefectly valid to read it as gay and then canonize the character as gay." It's not valid. Headcanon is headcanon and should remain as such. What the writer wrote and intended is what exists, not headcanon interpretations that come from "but it's kinda weird though" horse shit.
>>153005823So fucking what. It is still the case they ended up making the characters seem gay. The fact that Shattersta and Tim now have gay relationships in canon makes the reading valid. These are corporate owned characters, it doesn’t matter what a writer for hire intended when the company owning the characters ultimately decides what they want to do and whether or not they will embrace what the fans read into the characters instead of what the writer wanted.>BUT READERS ARE STUPID!!And some writers are very bad at writing certain things.You can stay mad all you want. The fact remains Dixon completely failed repeatedly with this shit and his canon argument is hilarious given how often DC has gone to the complete opposite direction to what he personally wanted and he was no “tourist” writer.
>>153005979>So fucking what.What was written is what was meant. Your interpretation is only valid for fanfiction, not canon. Just because you see what you want to see does not make it as valid as what the actual writer wrote. In fact, it's incredibly insulting to essentially say that you know what the writer meant more than the writer did and the bullshit you've made up about story is equally or more correct than what the person who wrote it says.It's not a failure on his, or any other writer's, part because YOU read what YOU wanted to read.
Also with sexuality changes that shit needs to be carefully considered. DC right now turns characters gay as a cheap stunt and it's as bad as any other cheap stunt. And on the worst end of the spectrum you get Ewing and Gillen and the like turning characters like Prodigy and Loa gay with literally no justification or foreshadowing.
people defending shit like turning Tim gay are disingenuous as fuck. It was so bad that they turned another character gay in the process and it wasn't even the one all those fujos/tumblrinas wanted. The most hilarious part in all of it is they turned that super kid gay so their greatest ship is guaranteed to never happen because you can't make the superman brand that gay
>>153006233I don't have an issue with it if it's done well. But that means it needs to be a long term story that leads to discovery so it makes sense. But that's not what happens. Instead people headcanon shit because a character doesn't instantly get his dick wet every time he's in a room with a girl and then later writers, who mostly get their info from fans and wikis and shit and not actually reading the comics, canonize it out of the blue and once it's done you can't undo it. So congrats on both fucking over a character AND fucking yourself out of a good story all so you could get social media ass pats.
>>152992532>If you don't recognize Dixon or Taylor, you're outing yourself as a cartoonfagI barely recognize Taylor (and only because of people's whining) and I don't know Dixon, while pretty much exclusively reading comics and not caring much about cartoons. I just don't generally don't care about capeshit, and if I do it's stuff from the 70s and 80s. There's plenty of other stuff to read.
>>152992687>Cass determines from their body movements who was the winner based on who would have landed the best blows.>Taylor still goes NUH UH IT CANONYa know what, Maybe I was too harsh on BatGod.
>>153002223Comic writers are eager to leave their mark on established properties, even if it means shitting on the story of an iconic character - they want the prestige of being able to go "Yeah, you know how <Character> is gay/single/dead? I did that" to their friends. Writing a good, and memorable story is too hard, so they resort to inflammatory, subversive or shocking narratives to etch their names into the history of a character they never made.
>>153006174>It’s insulting Cry me a river. Be a better writer if you don’t want readers to get the wrong idea REPEATEDLY from your comics
>>153006360No they’re not. Usually it’s just a work for hire paycheck gig where they were asked by DC/Marvel to pitch something new and different because comic fandom is so goddamn brainbroken they refuse to read anything that is considered “filler”, which leads to each run having to come up with increasingly big and subversive ideas for stories in order to placate fanboys and getting them to read the book. Sales reflect this. You do a generic back to basics stuff, sales are terrible and everyone whines about it being filler. You do something shocking and everyone rushes to read it, maybe even likes it 2/3 way through and then some small thing pissed them off and the entire run is suddenly the worst thing ever and fans start playing victims and cry that someone please return to normalcy and when it finally does people hate.
>>152990342I love how you included Tom Taylor getting EIGHT times as many likes as Chuck Dixon got views.
>>153001232She's a better character in that run than anywhere else she's been. Your only issue is that her "power level" got nerfed but when Batman's "powerlevel gets nerfed" you're ok with it because you have a chip on your shoulder.
>>152990469But you watch cartoons which is way sadder.
>>152994185Do you think people weren't saying Tenchi was a fag back in the early 2000s? Because I assure you, we were.
>>153005823>literally cannot comprehend a male character not wanting to fuck every chick that walks into his field of view.In Dicon's case it wasn't just walking into view it was the women literally climbing atop the guys and the guys trying to nope the fuck out whenever possible.
>>153006233You know the woke mind virus or whatever didn't work on Conner? Because Conner had a bunch of writers that portrayed him as wanting to have sex with women.
>>152990407This is accurate
>>153005823Shatterstar isn't he a spartan warrior? Those were prohibited to have sex with women until adulthood.
>>153003113Yeah. The humility seems largely fake to me.
>>153007266>you're ok with it because you have a chip on your shoulderThe almost universal reaction to King's Batman shows that isn't true.
>>153005058>Everyone loved Gail’s BoPI didn't.>>153006780You get the wrong idea repeatedly because you in particular want them to be gay. I never saw that when I read those same books.
>>153009173Your humility can be fake and a posture but it's still a sign of self and social awareness.
>>153006780Reading meaning that isn't there and then insisting it's true isn't the writer's fault. It's a you problem. Write all the fanfiction and make all the fan art you want though, just don't insist it's real.
>>152999866>>152999889>Written by republican>Read by gays/lesbiansLel, it really is the case
>>152991403Tim was a nerdy surburban 14 year old. How many anons here have spaghetti spilling stories about not getting laid at that age when thye were about to? If anything it's way more realizstic that when confronted with the possibility of actually getting some, Tim, like many other nerdy inexperienced kids, freezes up and doesn't know what to. He still crushed on girls, still felt flustered when flirted with, he just didn't really know how to be with women because he was a teenage dork who hyperfocussed on crimefighting and barely managed a normal social life.
>>153011026If you spill your spaghetti around girls you're gay. If you're celibate/asexual and don't fuck girls you're gay. If you have male friends you're gay. If you fuck girls you're gay. Fujos and gay dudes will ignore literally everything, make up headcanon, then insist it's reality and blame the writer for their own delusions.
>>153011026>>153011265Exactly this. We can see the inner thoughts of characters like Tim and Bobby, and we could see how they felt about girls or around girls, saw their crushes and their infatuation, but none of this matter to delusional fujo/faggots and their overly progressive enablers. All that matters are their pet ships.The irony with characters like Tim and Bobby both is that their favored ships never actually happened and never will happen, even after both were "canonized" to be gay against their original characterization by later writers, who only did so out of a desperate need to pander and/or leave their mark.
>>153011478In Bobby case, it was Bendis punishing him for dating Kitty.
>>153011478tim and steph could've been something good
>>153012591it was something good, even with the heavy handed boomerisms. There's a reason they both became beloved characters and for all of his flaws Dixon did most of the heavy lifting
