Been reading Mark Gruenwald's Captain America, and it's been fun. I love Gruenwald's worldbuilding and continuity autism.What Marvel runs have you read recently? What have you enjoyed?
Spider-Woman. Going from Dark Angel to Alluring Angel was a terrible mistake.
>>152998376Currently running through all of Marvel Fanfare as a breather between character deep-dives. I’m a little sad that I haven’t found any characters I enjoy nearly as much as Dr. Strange and the first ~7 Defenders, but this anthology format is helping me get acquainted with a lot of other guys I would’ve never given a look otherwise. Hawkeye is really growing on me especially.Recently picked up a bunch of Gruenwald Cap myself because I’ve heard nothing but good things (and each issue was only a buck). I’d say I’m looking forward to it, but only with caution. There are huge gaps in my collection, so I’ll have to alternate between digital reading and physical (which might be a pain).Dude had a long run. It’s 80-some issues, right? I’ve got stories with tens of gaps in numbers between them, yet Gruenwald on writing in each and every one.
>>152999761Hawkeye's great. Black Knight was a character that really grew on me when I was doing my dive into 80s Marvel, while reading Roger Stern's Avengers. My favorite Marvel run is Claremont's X-Men, but I liked how Stern portrayed the Avengers as professionals who also cared about each other.Gruenwald wrote the Captain America series for a full decade, from 1985 to 1995, so there's a lot of stories.
Been doing my read through of>Fantastic Four>Spider-Man>X-Men>Avengers>Daredeviland their associated books. I'm well out of the classic era at this point and into some Bendis shit. Just wrapped up his run on Daredevil and now I'm gonna binge Annihilation before getting through Civil War
>>152999761Hawkeye's always fun to have around
>>153000055Oh yeah not too long ago I took a brief detour to read the Captain Britain Omnibus and it was a lot of fun. The first volume was kind of shit, but the Black Knight strips and the solo run that followed were great
>>153000096Recently binged Captain Britain myself. Skipped past the early stories to get to the Black Knight story. The Alan Davis run is very good, and you can see Davis' skills as an artist and storyteller develop as he stays on the book.Found Mad Jim Jaspers to be rather annoying (not the biggest fan of his archetype), but Davis' visuals for him were spectacular. The Fury was great, loved that its programming autism meant it breached universes just to kill more capes, haha.
>>152999833Oooh, I also got some Stern Avengers issues. I’d heard good things about them (and loved Stern’s work on Strange) so they were another no-brainer. Similar issue, in that a lot of the books I have are from very disparate arcs, but i’ll probably read them anyways. Stern makes good stuff.Black Knight is cool too. He showed up some in Defenders (and, later, Stern’s Strange) and was always a pleasure, if a bit funny in how anachronistic his stories were even compared to Doc. Does he do more medieval time-travel stuff in Avengers, or is he just a “regular” knight in shining armor over there? A full decade is impressive, too. I honestly thought only Claremont ever got that far. Guess not! Are there any Cap runs from before Gruenwald that are also worth reading? I see people mention Brubaker (who came later), but never many solos from before the 80s. It’s usually just “check out x Avengers issue” or Invaders.
>>153000437Admittedly, I haven't read Defenders or Stern's Strange yet. I have JMD's Defenders on the backlog, since he's one of my fave Marvel writers besides Claremont and Stern.In Stern's Avengers, Black Knight's presented as a scientist who's trying to make sense of the Ebony Blade and all the crazy supernatural shit he gets himself into, kek. He's also got the hots for Wasp. I'm a sucker for the 'rationalist gets involved in magic bullshit' scenario. Because Stern used Kang as a major villain in his Avengers run, Dane does get involved in time travel craziness there too.Admittedly, Gruenwald's Cap is the first one I've read. Apparently the Stern/Byrne brief run had a lot of promise, though.
>>153000662Oooh, okay, I will give you a heads-up that JMD has a good Defenders run… that goes completely fucking off the rails and into so-bad-it’s-good territory around the early 100s. It’s still worth reading, just completely fucking batshit at points. I agree that he’s a pretty good writer.That honestly sounds really interesting (maybe outside of the Wasp bit. Why have so many characters crushed on her). Time travel craziness, too— I’m not super familiar with Kang, so more opportunities to learn about him are always cool.Is there a character Byrne hasn’t written? Guy seems to have had his fingers in every pie. I’ll put it on the list for later, lol. Thank you for the recommendation.
>>153000437>>153000662Stern is one of the best.
>>153000987>It’s still worth reading, just completely fucking batshit at pointsThat's part of the charm for these old comics for me, the absolutely nutty storylines and crazy soap opera. Definitely going to read it alongside Gruenwald's Cap at this point.I'll reiterate that I've only read Stern's Hulk and Avengers so far, but they've both been great (Stern even reuses some of the ideas and characters he used in Hulk for Avengers, particularly Moonstone). I have his Spider-Man and his Strange on my backlog alongside the aforementioned JMD Defenders. Since I enjoyed Stern's Avengers so much, I figure I'll have a great time with his Spidey and Strange.
>>153001125Stern's ASM is one of if not the best run the character has ever had, you're in for a treat
>>153001125No, I mean “batshit” as in “car crash train wreck what the fuck is happening” bordering on incoherent, not “lots of relatively coherent shit is happening but if you said it aloud people would think you’ve lost your marbles.” It gets hard to follow and convoluted, but it’s still entertaining. Again, worth reading; just really fucking batshit.I had no idea the man even HAD a Hulk run. That’s another thing for the list. And I will seriously recommend his Strange, as well as the entire Master of the Mystic Arts volume it comes from. He’s preceded by some really good writers and still manages to keep the quality of the book excellent. I have no idea how Stern does it, but I’m honestly jealous and wish someone of his caliber still existed in the industry today.
>>152998376I fucking love '70s Mavel.
>>152998376Well, it's not a run, rather a Maxi-Series but I recently reread Mark Gruenwald's Squadron Supreme series in TPB form (with that sweet Alex Ross cover) so it also came with the Cap issue where Nighthawk goes to 616 and...yup, still love it.
>>153002129>I mean “batshit” as in “car crash train wreck what the fuck is happening” bordering on incoherentI'm a sucker for 'so bad, it's good' media, so I'm looking forward to some bonkers moments.Stern's had his fingers on a lot of character pies. Honestly, if Claremont had left X-Men in 1986-1987 like he probably should have done (I love the later Claremont stuff because of how insane it gets, and the fetishbait just becomes hilarious, but after 1985 I feel Claremont starts to run on fumes), I think Stern would've done a great job on X-Men. I know he did write them in the 80s X-Men vs. Avengers miniseries.
>>153000096>>153000157I also recently re-read the Davis Captain Britain run. Jaspers' Warp is an all-timer. I haven't felt that level of thrill from almost any other comics.
>>153003406Stern X-Men would have probably been even better than Claremont's. Any writing I've ever (half-assedly) attempted, Gerber and Stern are two of my biggest influences which is weird because of how opposite they are as creators. But I love Gerber's uncompromising belief in doing what interested him and always making sure his books werre uniquely him and Stern's reliability and desire to simply tell the best and most effective stories he can with no fuss or bombast. I'd say #3 on that list would be DeMatteis and his always trying to get into the heads of his characters.
Well I got the Savage She-Hulk omnibus late last year and it surprised me a lot. David Anthony Kraft writes a story about a woman who uses her two personas to date two different guys, one of whom is Richard Rory from Gerber's Man-Thing/Omega the Unknown stories. A lot of Gerber stuff gets picked up in She-Hulk, it's almost like Kraft realized how many dangling plot-threads Gerber had left behind and figured he could make use of them. Also Morbius is a significant supporting character, his struggles as a vampire and the morality of whether he should be held responsible for his actions is a big deal in it.While everyone probably agrees that John Byrne wrote the definitive She-Hulk, this early stuff shouldn't be dismissed.
>>153005406>A lot of Gerber stuff gets picked up in She-Hulk, it's almost like Kraft realized how many dangling plot-threads Gerber had left behind and figured he could make use of them.Kraft and Gerber were good friends and Kraft would help kick around plot ideas for Gerber all the time because Gerber had a tendency to write himself into a corner and not know how to resolve is cliffhangers. Dakimh from Gerber's Man-Thing run has a name that's an anagram that stands for "David Anthony Kraft Is My Hero" because of how often Kraft would save his ass when he had deadlines and no idea how to resolve a story.
>>153005759That makes a lot of sense
>>153002181>Mavel
>>152998376>What have you enjoyed?Nothing of what I've read. Marvel was always bad.
was reading Thor's Mangong epic, was semi decent, now reading the walt simsonian omnibus, thoroughly confused by all the scene changes every other page
>>153005759That explains a lot. Their respective runs on the Defenders were both excellent in ways that I figured only two well-coordinated authors could make them.
>>153004859I agree.
>>153008875Has Kraft's Defenders ever been collected anywhere?
Did you guys read Machine Man? What are your thoughts? Also on picrel
>>153009576Pretty sure it hasn't.
>>153010867I have not read it.
>>153009576I don’t think so. Defenders in general seems to get a really raw deal with compilations. I’m not sure anything outside of the original Englehart/Feature stuff and all the failed miniseries revivals have even been collected.
>>153012979Everything from the start through Gerber's run, DeMatteis's run, and the Gillis New Defenders run is collected in Epics although the DeMatteis and New Defenders ones are long out of print. The only things not collected are the Kraft run and the shitty Hannigan run inbetween Gerber and DeMatteis.
>>153013245>long out of printThat explains why I missed it. Oops. Thank you for letting me know.Kraft’s run not being collected is a shame. It’s a good read, even if it starts declining a bit near the end (likely due to Hannigan beginning to co-write). Hannigan’s being forgotten is maybe for the better.
>>152998376It's kinda wild that before 2000s Marvel was pretty much the Post Crisis canon that DC wanted. I mean there's been soft reboots and sclae ups for the timestream but its all still been here.Same 616 from the sixties and up till 1999.
Reading through X-Men vs. Avengers (the Stern/Silvestri miniseries).It's a weird miniseries. Stern and Gruenwald are among the better team players in Marvel's writer/editor group in the 80s, and the whole miniseries clearly existed as a way for Marvel editorial to try and make Magneto a villain again and take him out of Claremont's hands (which they eventually achieved with Fall of the Mutants). Stern does stay true to Claremont's characterizations though, and I like Stern writing Wolverine as being suspicious of Mags.I liked Claremont's 80s Magneto a lot, but in hindsight, he really should have just made a new villain for his redemption story (it's comics, he could have easily bullshitted 'Xavier's old friend turned reluctant mutant extremist' character without using Magneto). It would have solved a lot of writing and editorial headaches.
>>153014774>he really should have just made a new villain for his redemption story (it's comics, he could have easily bullshitted 'Xavier's old friend turned reluctant mutant extremist' character without using Magneto).Glad to see someone else coming around to this viewpoint, it would've been a lot easier to just create an OC instead of trying to pretend after all those years that Magneto was Xavier's friend or that he actually cared about other mutants beyond their usefulness to him as henchmen.I do wonder what the hell happened behind the scenes at Marvel for Stern and Silvestri to both get taken off the book after #3, with the final issue produced by an entirely different creative team. It's a few months before Shooter was fired and DeFalco took over, so it's not a consequence of the change in editorial regime. Somehow Marvel greenlit a mini for the purpose of making Magneto a villain again then changed their minds at the last minute. Did Claremont have that much power behind the scenes in 1987 that he could have made this happen?
>>153014774>>153015117It's always really interesting to look back on these books in hindsight. Especially how it kind of contextualizes things with new knowledge. The X-men pretty much where always just gigantic assholes.
>>153015156>The X-men pretty much where always just gigantic assholes.It really takes off in the 80s with stories like this one, and Secret Wars, where they just have this massive blindspot regarding Magneto, and will side with him against superheroes, and do whatever they can to protect him from facing justice.It only gets worse as they take in more and more mutant villains.
>>153015117>Did Claremont have that much power behind the scenes in 1987 that he could have made this happen?While I don't think anything was ever confirmed, the most popular theory is that Claremont threatened to leave Marvel to go to DC (apparently DC editorial was courting him to replace Wolfman as the Teen Titans writer) if Stern and editorial went ahead with the planned final XvA issue. Since Claremont's X-Men was still the most popular book at the time, maybe Marvel editorial didn't want to run the risk of him actually bailing at that point. Then again, they did ultimately manage to get Magneto out of Claremont's hands with Fall of the Mutants and Louise Simonson having Magneto hijack the Hellfire Club and go full mutant extremist again (don't know if that plotline went anywhere).I think it would've probably been for the best had Claremont left in 1987: while some of my personal favorite Claremont X-Men/New Mutants stories happened in the 1984 to 1987 period (some of the crazy JRJR era stories like the Conan reality warp, the early Mojo stories before Claremont made him a thinly veiled jab at editorial, Mutant Massacre and really, anything to do with Sinister, the New Mutants' travels through space and fight with Magus), and I did like some of the later stories like Genosha, it's pretty clear by 1988 that he was just throwing shit at the wall to see what kept him going for the paycheck.
>>153014774>>153015117It would have been less effective with an OC or even a lower tier villain. Magneto was just kind of a generic villain prior and Claremont went and made him a great character. An OC won't have the gravitas needed to make that change a big deal and if not that then what villain would you realistically use in the reformed headmaster role?The idea of a guy who went through so much bad shit that it turned him into an extremist, but tries to reform to honor a man he respects and to try and find redemption for himself in educating the next generation because there's still a spark of nobility in him but who inevitably falls is great and archetypal tragedy. The problem is that in the '90s he got written schizophrenically where one minute he's the tragic noble monster and the next he's basically Silver Age Magneto. And now he's just a good guy again because of his popularity. The last time anything interesting was done with him that felt like a natural direction that was true to the character was fuckig Cullen Bunn doing the Mutant Punisher thing in the mid-2010s and that's, I think, the best way to use him at this point.Claremont's biggest problem was his growing entitlement which coincided with him becoming more and more self-indulgent until you end up in the post- Outback period up until his exit with Mutant Genesis where the book becomes an incoherent mess.
>>153015655It's the problem with American comics and continuity autism. 80s Magneto trying to do the right thing out of respect for his old friend, trying to do his best by the New Mutants only to falter when they really need him (post-Secret Wars II when they're traumatized from being BEYONDER'd, pre-Inferno when Magik is going off the rails after Colossus 'dies'), eventually screwing up again and resorting to extremism, is my favorite interpretation of the character personally, but I do get the people who wanted to keep him a villain and prefer him as a villain. One of my favorite single New Mutants stories is the issue where he succeeds in making a breakthrough with Magik and her emotional state.>The problem is that in the '90s he got written schizophrenically where one minute he's the tragic noble monster and the next he's basically Silver Age MagnetoPretty sure one of the writers (maybe Claremont?) even tried to make him a canon schizo to justify this too, kek. It's hilarious seeing Silver Age Magneto and how ridiculous he could be.
>>153015655>It would have been less effective with an OC or even a lower tier villain. Magneto was just kind of a generic villain prior and Claremont went and made him a great character. An OC won't have the gravitas needed to make that change a big deal and if not that then what villain would you realistically use in the reformed headmaster role?The obvious way around this is to put the effort in and build your OC up as a significant new villain while seeding hints to his past with Xavier and his tragic origins, instead of just laying it all out there from day one. Because the main argument in support of Claremont turning Magneto into something that's basically an OC whose completely incompatible with who he'd been before is usually people just arguing that they just don't care about who he was before so it doesn't matter to them. And it absolutely does matter when the comics are trying to argue Magneto was always well-intentioned and fighting for "his people", or trying to retcon their own history to try and justify Magneto by pretending mutants were so oppressed before the world knew they existed. Everything with 80s Magneto would've worked so much better as a total OC.It generally seems like Claremont needed an artist like Byrne who also had enough creative input into the book to act as a balance to him, and needed a strong editor who could say no to his worse ideas. And for a lot of the 80s he didn't have either of those things. By the time he was trying to sabotage X-Factor doing a Scott/Jean reunion by writing a Classic X-Men backup to try and make Logan/Jean happen, and also if he's responsible for sabotaging this X-Men vs Avengers mini, he was the guy inside the tent peeing inwards.
>>153015405>protect him from facing justice.and it's not like they don't know flat out he's guilty.
>>153016014>Logan/JeanI think more the Magneto situation this is the one aspect of the X-men that annoys me the most
>>153016014>Logan/JeanI thought it was cute when it was just a one-sided crush Logan had on Jean (back when he was being written as a twenty-something in late 70s/early 80s X-Men). It really hurt Scott, Jean and Logan's characters when Claremont tried to push for it just to sabotage X-Factor.It's even worse because, from what I read, Bob Layton (who just wanted to write an X-Men spinoff) and Jackson Guice were willing to play ball with Claremont's plans and not use Scott and Jean (I believe Layton agreed to use Alex and Lorna, and there was a real plan to use Dazzler at one point) for X-Factor, but Claremont wanted X-Men to be solely under his and his clique's control (noticed that outside of Claremont, it was mostly Weezie, Nocenti, and Bill Mantlo who got to write X-Men/X-Men related stories during the 80s).
I always found it weird that X-men ever even accepted Magneto as their leader.
Was Gerber the best 70s Marvel writer?
>>153018743I'd say so.
>>153018743>>153018879As much as I like and respect Gerber I wouldn't say the best. His highs are probably the highest of the genre in the decade and did a lot to influence later creators like Gaiman. But he could be inconsistent and had his lows. I'd put Englehart over him because he was just about as good and more consistent in his quality. I can't think of any book of his from his first Marvel run that wasn't excellent.
>>153015117Stern hated the fact that Claremont was trying to make Magneto a good guy via writer fiat and around this time, Claremont announced A. He was going to have the X-Men fake their deaths to avoid having to do a crossover with X factor and B. Taking a leave of absence from New Mutants to lighten his workload so he could write a novel, that quickly became permanent removal via Tom DeFalco when he demanded Fall of the Mutants be a non crossover crossover.DeFalco also vetoed Magneto being part of the X-Men team that faked his death because the New Mutants would not have a legal guardian and Stern had a big deal over how Magneto was still a wanted fugitive since his trial in UXM 200 got interrupted. Stern's original pitch for X-Men vs Avengers was that Mandarin would get involved in the trial having been caught trafficking Chinese mutants, instead of the plot about the mind control helmet and it would end with Magnetic being presumed dead and him not resurfacing until after Fall of the Mutants to resume leading the New Mutants.
>>153019718Claremont vetoed this script because the trial would make it clear that Magneto is a murderer and the X-Men horrible people for aligning with him. Stern then went full scorched Earth with an ending where the X-Men realized that Magneto mind raped the tribunal into acquitting him, the X-Men pretty much telling Magneto that they'll straight up murder him if he comes back to the X Mansion or tries to contact the New Mutants (something Simonson was onboard with, as she made it clear by this point that she intended on turning Magneto evil again first chance she could), and Magneto being nearly lynched by a crowd of anti magneto mutants who proclaimed that Magneto was Hitler and his acquittal sparking global anti mutant riots and lynchings of mutants. Effectively castrating Magneto by destroying his power base and making him an enemy of the X-Men Claremont threw a MASSIVE shit fit and Stern, who was already getting heat from Mark Gruenwald (who was DeFalco's right hand man) over changed to his Avengers (in particular wanting to keep Captain Marvel the leader and making the big storyline for #300 be the resurrection of Iron Fist and revealing that Danny and Luke Cage were held prisoner by Master Khan in a dream prison where each was a wanted fugitive framed for killing the other) threw up his hands and quit both books. DeFalco's compromise ending was Stern's but soften to pander to Claremont. Magneto mind raped himself an acquittal and the X-Men never find out; but a huge anti mutant protest crowd are outside the courthouse making Magneto realize that he made anti mutant tensiona worse along with Claremont being told that he couldn't have Magneto fake his death with the rest of the team, hence Claremont replacing him with Maddie Pryor.
Oh boy, Insiderschizo found this thread. Get a new shtick.
>>153017233It's been said that both Simonson and Nocenti were glorified hand maidens to Claremont, but especially Nocenti. Though once she started writing X-Factor, Simsonson was willing to start sabatoging Claremont hardcore with her doubling down on Scott as a didn't do nothing and constantly shitting on Maddie, up to having her spout crap about always being evil and having her funeral just be the X-Factor cast (no X-Men) and it being all about how evil she was and how great it was now that Jean and Scott could fuck openly without judgement since Bob Harras and Weezie made Maddie a would be child murderer. But that said, post-Mutant Massacre through Muir Island Saga X-Men was needed in a lot of ways due to the fact that even Claremont dick sucker Heidi McDonald was complaining about how stale the book was and how utterly unbearable Kitty Pryde had gotten by 1985, in terms of being a full on Mary Sue. Even Nocenti noticed the later, as she was the one who in a rare bit of actually doing her fucking job, had to push for Rogue getting more page time and character development because fans went gaga over her and disliked that Claremont was still pushing Kitty down fans throats instead of doing more with Rogue.
>>153019867It's been said that both Simonson and Nocenti were glorified hand maidens to Claremont, but especially Nocenti. Though once she started writing X-Factor, Simsonson was willing to start sabatoging Claremont hardcore with her doubling down on Scott as a didn't do nothing and constantly shitting on Maddie, up to having her spout crap about always being evil and having her funeral just be the X-Factor cast (no X-Men) and it being all about how evil she was and how great it was now that Jean and Scott could fuck openly without judgement since Bob Harras and Weezie made Maddie a would be child murderer. But that said, post-Mutant Massacre through Muir Island Saga X-Men was needed in a lot of ways due to the fact that even Claremont dick sucker Heidi McDonald was complaining about how stale the book was and how utterly unbearable Kitty Pryde had gotten by 1985, in terms of being a full on Mary Sue. Even Nocenti noticed the later, as she was the one who in a rare bit of actually doing her fucking job, had to push for Rogue getting more page time and character development because fans went gaga over her and disliked that Claremont was still pushing Kitty down fans throats instead of doing more with Rogue.
>>153019776Spoken like a thread derailing no fun troll. Whoever posted >>153019718 >>153019759is telling the truth about what happened with XvA, as far as Claremont throwing a queen size tantrum over other writers rightfully rebuking his crap.
>>153019867>utterly unbearable Kitty Pryde had gotten by 1985I like Shadowcat, but Claremont was really obsessed with her after a certain point, and it shows in both UXM and Excalibur, lel. Read that the man was apparently trying to bring her into the Fantastic Four when he came back to Marvel in the late 90s. Not sure if he wanted to make her an actual member, although that shit would have never flown with fans or editorial.
>>153020005Your posting style is so blatant. Source your shit for once.
>>153020029Given how reviled Kitty's return to the team was, most X-Men fans would gladly have handed her over to Claremont to be Reed's personal assistant in Fantastic Four. Especially since one of the very first issues back in Uncanny had her spend the entire issue shitting on Gambit in front of Storm while Storm sits back and takes it like a loser
I miss the Wackos
>>153019759>Stern could’ve saved the X-Men from nearly 50 years of being arguable terrorists>thanks to Claremont, they have instead become outright villainswhat kud of bean
>>153015474The weird thing is, even this parody is something I'd read over current day X-Men lol
>>153021107It’s not that weird. Comics have been shit for decades.
>>153019776Who?
>>153019776I know from others reposting info from trade version that the Mandarin was involved in an earlier version of the plot and that Stern was negative about Magneto, the fourth issue was written by someone other than Stern himself, Luke Cage's head was in an advertisement for upcoming Avengers stories but he never appeared, and that there was a back and fourth between who was in the wrong regarding Cyclops and Maddy depending on the writers. So at most it seems only the actual behind the scenes dynamics are what could be made up.
>>153022127The Luke Cage stuff was confirmed by Priest and Byrne. Byrne stated that he had to remove Luke from the story because DeFalco hated Cage the way Quesada hated Wanda and had embargoed him and Byrne making the detective character Master Khan instead of a vampire like Priest intended
>>153021012Damn.
>>152998376I should read it too.
>>153019776>stopped talking about my favorite writer because people will eventually identify me as a schizoIt's a matter of time
I'm reading amazing Spider-Man, but not super into Len Wein's stuff. Not bad or great, just meh to good. I think Roger Stern is around the corner, so I may just skip to his issues
>>153024223I like Wein's run. It's not a gamechanger but it's solid and enjoyable stories and his good ones are really good. The Wolfman run isn't that great by comparison.
>>153024331NTA but thoughts about O'Neil's run? I haven't read it. ASM is still good after Romita, but before Stern's run it's kind of underwhelming. The first two runs had a lot of depth and balance. I feel like they couldn't understand exactly why ASM was so good. Some issues and storylines were remarkable, but often they were regular. However, its greatest strength in those years was that it was rarely unreadable garbage.
>>153020272Bottom is basically an exploitable/template that is similar to "Me and the boys" except I think it is best used for good news.... if we had any....
>>153024746It's not good at all. I think the Spider-Fan review of the run sums it up best: it's like a Silver Age DC style book that focuses more on the contrived plot of each issue vs. the more character-driven Marvel style and written by a guy who just seemingly did not care much about what he was writing. Like the most lasting part of it is the introduction of Hydro-Man and fucking Madame Web (who's always sucked and never fit; there's a reason Stern iced her so quickly after taking over) and its story high points are Annuals #14 and 15 and that's more for the Frank Miller art.
>>153024746O'Neil is generally mediocre.
>>152998376Has Ann Nocenti ever written anything good? I can’t stand her stuff, I keep giving her chances and being disappointed. Her writing is just so… patronizing? I don’t know how to describe it. It’s like she’s trying to write for toddlers. Nobody in her books has more than one sentence’s worth of thoughts at any given time.
>>153001125>>153001289Just read ASM #249, really great issue where Hobgoblin attempts to blackmail Harry, JJJ, Kingpin and others. Really great issue. Couldn't help but read Kingpin's dialogue with Roscoe Lee Brown's voice from the animated series. What's the best way to read the original Hobgoblin story arc collected currently?
>>153026553I liked her Daredevil run. That one Spider-Man story where he fights Thanos in the afterlife was fun too
>>153026553No, she's like a weird middle ground between the artsier and headier writers and a standard cape writer but not as as either side. I assume she got a lot of opportunities because guys in the '80s wanted to fuck her.Almost as bad is Louise Simonson who's never written anything better than middling and her New Mutants was so bad that it made fans yearn for Liefeld.
>>153027119>I assume she got a lot of opportunities because guys in the '80s wanted to fuck her.This possibility is honestly even more baffling to me. She’s like the most average woman I’ve ever seen. Cute, maybe, but not “let’s give her a shitload of work and an editorial position” cute.
>>153027752Her hair is really appealing in photos. Also presumably things like voice, mind control pheromones, or personality could be involved.
>>153027752She's a girl in a room full of nerds.
>>153028112Weren’t at least half of those nerds married?
>>152999761I've been guzzling Marvel Fanfare since another anon posted Cowboy Strange. I'm a lazy bastard can't muster the effort to go digging through to find good runs with good scans, so just reading an anthology with a lot of fun stories has been really enjoyable to me.
>>153027752Gerber got with Mary Skrenes simply by not being a horny weirdo around her like the other guys in the office and Skrenes wasn't exactly a prize and while young Nocenti was no Flo she was still reasonably pretty. The standards of nerds have always been low.
>>153027752Nocenti was a quirky manic pixie type who's big claim of fame was "Assistant Editor's Month"; which basically was a month long event where every book would be a comedy themed story, framed around the idea that the month SDCC happened and all of Marvel's top editors were there, the "assistant editors" would go rogue and do all sorts of silly stuff that the "serious" senior editors would normally shut down". Something that Marvel did for two years until the infamous Spectacular Spider-Man Assistant Editors issue debacle killed the entire sales stunt dead. That and being Simonson's replacement 'tard wrangler for Claremont, with Nocenti in particular being made to be the one who had to lure Claremont to a fancy restaurant, plying him with expensive food and wine and then having to break the news that Shooter was not only finally greenlighting the OG X-Men spin-off Claremont had spent years preventing from happening, but that they were bringing Jean back and yanking Cyclops from Claremont to star in it. And keeping Claremont from storming off to the Marvel offices, where Layton was finishing up the paperwork to start the series, to keep Claremont from going there and threatening to quit if Shooter didn't tear up Layton's contract and tell him he'll never be allowed to write his dream OG X-Men book so long as Claremont was at Marvel. >>153028112Fun fact: Jim Shooter once bought Anne a leather catsuit for her birthday.
>>153018743No, he was the worst. Basically like Bendis and Ellis, he was a failed writer who had to lower himself to writing comics because he couldn't get what was left of the sci-fi and horror anthology magazine industry to publish his stories. He was notorious for repackaging his rejected short stories as stories for Man Thing, who he wholesale ripped off from DC's Swamp Thing, was notoriously unable to keep deadlines after Defenders made him a star, a degenerate druggie alongside Englehart, and a spoiled, self-absorbed shithead ala Alan Moore who willingly did work for hire stuff then demanded special treatment, as far as demanding Marvel hand over ownership of WFH creation Howard the Duck, then spent YEARS ala John K basically blood libeling Marvel to ensure no one else could touch his creation until after he died and the GOTG movie finally made Marvel go "fuck it" and let others write Howard. Jim Shooter's takedown of Gerber in Secret Wars II, complete with calling out Gerber being an anti-military liberal who hated cartoons as trash yet sold his soul to work on GI Joe and other Sunbow TV shows for a chance to finally make it big in Hollywood summed up why Gerber was a garbage person and writer.
>>153028425Imagine siding with corporations.
>>153026870You are kind of fucked. The entire saga has never been reprinted and the Essential and MMW line both died before they could completely reprint it and the Epic Collection still hasn't published the volume reprinting #272-288 yet. They did do an "Origin of the Hobgoblin" trade paperback that collects the original Stern Hobgoblin issues but it's heavily edited and pages are redrawn to make it one continuous story instead of spread out over multiple issues with large gaps. They did re-release it though in the late 00s and included the first appearances of Kingsley from Spectacular Spider-Man though. But both are OOP, as is the Roger Stern Spider-Man omnibus, with both also not including Hobgoblin Lives which retcons the original story to make Kingsley Hobgoblin.
>>153028425>who he wholesale ripped off from DC's Swamp ThingWein created both Man-Thing and Swamp Thing you moron and Gerber's Man-Thing is what Moore ripped off or his Swamp Thing (and Gaiman admitted to "being inspired by" for Sandman).>a degenerate druggie alongside EnglehartEveryone who knew him said he didn't take drugs, only chainsmoked.Also Gerber wasn't "lowering himself". He was a fucking letterhack and friends with Roy Thomas and basically begged Thomas for a job at Marvel because he hated working at an ad agency.
>>153028466Like Alan Moore with Halo Jones, Gerber knew he was creating product for a big company and didn't own it and yet still thought he was a special snowflake for whom the rules and contracts didn't matter.
recently picked up this annual for 5 bucks and found it weird how someone then decided we needed another man and monster dilemma when already have the lizard for that
>>153028347>the infamous Spectacular Spider-Man Assistant Editors issue debacleWhat's that story?
>>153028535They can write about werewolves at Marvel now, werewolves change based on the moon, and you have a guy associated with space who has no real role. Efficient.
>>153028560I'm assuming the Fly issue drawn by Fred Hembeck.
>>153015934>80s Magneto trying to do the right thing out of respect for his old friend,Well, except for the times he murdered thousands of people
>>153028535I fucking hate Man-Wolf and any time he shows up in '70s Spider-Man I roll my eyes. John Jameson just sucks in general.
>>153028347>the infamous Spectacular Spider-Man Assistant Editors issue…do I dare ask?
>>153028743>>153028560The issue of Spectacular Spiderman where Peter and Black Cat officially become a couple after her initial "I love the mask not the man behind the mask"freakout and Peter showing her his world/life/home as plain old Peter Parker, a critical moment in the Black Cat saga, came out during Assistant Editors month and saw as a joke, Fred Hembeck draw it in his garrish cartoon style, which caused Marvel to get more hate mail than the rape of Carol Danvers, the death of Phoenix, and Hank being into a wife beater combined, killing off assistant Editors month in the process.
>>153028882The alpha flight issue was a little funny but if these things didn't cost under a buck...
>>153028255Ooh, I can recommend more anthologies to you! Marvel Comics Presents if you want 90s stuff, Marvel Premiere and/or Spotlight if you prefer 70s, and Marvel Team-Up if you can tolerate a LOT of Spidey in your anthologies.
>>153028882That seems really odd, given that in #86: yeah there's a character moment in him showing her where he works and how Felicia's reaction defines the ultimate wedge between them, but it's just a single beat and the big moments are blatantly set up at the end (and in the normal style) to be in the next issue. It's then #87 that has all the big moments that really show Felicia that he's Peter Parker, not Spider-Man, and how that leaves her screaming. I can see people sending in hate mail just because they hate Fred Hembeck's style, but any idea that it's treating an important beat in their relationship as a joke seems really misplaced. Especially since, again, it's hammered in within that very issue that the beat is happening next month true believers
>>153028535>>153028569>>153028694I'm really glad they didn't do anything with him being a werewolf in the Raimi Spider-Man movies.
>>153028694He was cool in #41-43...
>>153028425>He was notorious for repackaging his rejected short stories as stories for Man ThingThat sounds smart >who he wholesale ripped off from DC's Swamp ThingWhut?>to ensure no one else could touch his creation until after he diedHow is that a bad thing? Many characters would benefit from that
>>152999761>>153028255>>153028949Marvel Fanfare is one of my favorite things Marvel ever published. In-general I think I'm partial to anthologies, because artists can put more time and effort into a one-off story (or annuals) than in a monthly book grind. Michael Golden's Marvel Fanfare #47 is one of the best looking books Marvel ever published.
>>153029358>who he wholesale ripped off from DC's Swamp ThingSwamp Thing and Man Thing came out within MONTHS of each other.
>>153028512Not him, but >for whom the rules and contracts didn't matterThey never do. If you ever have the opportunity to steal shit from the corporation, you should take it. It's always morally in the right and deserved to do so
>>153029533Gerber wasn't involved in their creation
>>152998376Excellent taste. I started reading Gruenwald's Cap omni 2 recently.
>>153029713I have most of Gruenwald Cap collected in Epic collection. There's just ONE volume I'm missing, Blood and Glory.
>>153029533Anon... Len Wein created both of them. And Man-Thing came out first. He literally sold the same idea to both companies.
What do people think of the Roy Thomas/Neal Adams X-Men run? I have a soft spot for Silver Age silliness, so Thomas' writing was fine by me, but Adams' art is pure kino. Lol'd whenever Angel said, "Holy Hannah!" (my favorite 'not-profanity' from the old Marvel comics) and at Magneto's crazy scheme with his Savage Land mutants. Sauron arc was great.The whole run fits well as a prequel to Giant Size X-Men and Claremont's subsequent run. Claremont even gave some ideas for it.
>>153030182>What do people think of the Roy Thomas/Neal Adams X-Men run?I am VERY fond of them. Pre Giant Sized X-men always gets a bum rap but once the series fond some footing it actually got pretty great. They really put the WEIRD in comics and I like that. I've said it before but I would have loved to see how this series would have gone if it didn't get put on ice.
>>153030233>Thomas/Adams X-Men continued to run for at least another year or two in another world>Adams finds ways to insert his schizo conspiracy theories about the Earth into X-Men loreIf only. I think the Lee/Kirby X-Men is a perfectly fine early-mid Silver Age comic (funny as fuck to see pre-age retcon Xavier bemoan not being able to fuck Jean though), and Thomas/Adams X-Men is wonderfully weird in that late Silver Age way. Didn't mind the Arnold Drake/Jim Steranko stories either.
>>153030266>Steranko's name doesn't even appear in the credits because it doesn't need to, you know he drew it
>>153029885How is Capwolf? Is it getting entire Gruenwald's run worth it?
>>153000075I love the idea of him getting a job as security and he just has to show up and waste time in full costume.
>>153030182I largely don't enjoy the Silver Age nor X-Men, but Neal Adams was astounding.
>>153030310Capwolf is great. Mark Waid, ever the insecure piece of shit had his shithead friends at Wizard shit all over it and presented it as "proof that Grueneald was a garbage writer" to prop up the ass hat's garbage run and bully Marvel into rehiring him after Waid drove off all the readers on Cap and force Marvel to replace him with Liefeld and Loeb
>>153031084>ass hat's garbage runI've never read Waid's Cap, that bad?
>>153031111Waid, Mr Punch A Nazi, spends BOTH of his Cap runs white knighting and standing Red Skull. His first arc basically is Cap being told that he should give up on not killing Hitler after Hitler's ghost (trapped in a cosmic cube) is fully activated and he brings Sharon Carter as a virulently anti American domestic terrorist ala Timothy McVeigh that is aligned with Skull. His second arc is a Zodiac crossover fight Waid spent YEARS trying to bury because Bob Harras made him write it as a sales stunt and who's ending was never supposed to have a payoff (until Buseik revealed the masked leader of Zodiac was Immortis in disguise), and the less says about Man Without A Country the better except it makes zero sense plotwise or the garbage if his second run, which among other things had Waid pettily destroy Cao's shield and replacing it with USAgent's energy shield that Cap stole from Walker
>>153031190Not sure what to make of all that. Except>Waid pettily destroy Cao's shield and replacing it with USAgent's energy shield that Cap stole from WalkerNot a fan of Steve being a thief.
>>153030280so cool
>>153031084>after Waid drove off all the readers on Cap and force Marvel to replace him with Liefeld and LoebThat's not the way things happened. Marvel execs had started the Heroes Reborn negotiations with Rob Liefeld and Jim Lee in the 2nd half of 1994, and initially Marvel editorial were kept in the dark about it. Eventually they learned the execs were planning to outsource those books to two Image guys that Marvel staffers considered 'traitors', by the summer of 1995 the storylines and creative team changes on the Avengers and FF-related books were Marvel editorial's attempts to move the needle on those titles enough to convince the execs to call off the Heroes Reborn negotiations. Gruenwald was convinced to step down from his 10 years+ writing Captain America and Waid brought in as a 'star writer', but he didn't move the needle enough to stop Heroes Reborn, as the execs thought it was still 1992 and that those books were going to sell in the millions.Liefeld's podcasts on Heroes Reborn talked all about this, it's fascinating.
>>153032542Further to this, Wizard Magazine didn't appear to know that Waid had only been brought on to Captain America by editorial trying to prevent Heroes Reborn, and Waid may not have know himself, Wizard spearheaded a fan campaign to keep the Waid/Garney team on Cap, which was doomed as the Heroes Reborn contract was already a done deal, but it was a key moment in Wizard doing a 180 on their opinion of Liefeld, and Wizard were a major fanboy tastemaker at the time.
>>153032542>and Waid brought in as a 'star writer'Because of Kingdom Come?
>>153032577This was before Kingdom Come, so more for his Flash run.
>>153019871The entire situation with Maddie and Inferno was another time when Claremont wanted one thing and the rest of the X-office wanted something else, namely to treat Maddie like a bad idea to be swept under the rug and moved on from. Louise Simonson's X-Factor dealt with the matter quickly and cleanly with a plot about Maddie being killed by Nathan's kidnappers, but this was another situation where Claremont was far too attached to a female character he used to write, brought her back in UXM, Inferno was basically editorial forcing an end to her being around so they could finally move on with what they wanted to do with Scott and Jean in X-Factor.The Wolverine solo book was another example of Claremont being inside the tent, peeing inwards. He'd spent years blocking a Wolverine ongoing because he didn't want to write one, and didn't want to share the character with another writer either, when he finally relented, he came up with a book that was deliberately uncommercial in the hope it wouldn't last long. The Madripoor setting that was a Terry & The Pirates homage, Logan away from the X-Men, out of costume and with a stupid eyepatch disguise, Jessica Drew there for no reason, and yet Logan was just so popular it sold anyway. The various short-term interim runs for the 2 years after Claremont were stuck with the Madripoor setting until Hama arrived as the full-time new writer.>>153022127The Mandarin showing up in the final issue of that mini with no prior foreshadowing just sounds odd.
I know Gerber is a complicated man, but I blame him, not marvel management or Stan, for how annoying and dumb Omega the Unknown turned out. So what if they put in few notes, it's your responsibility to make it good. Coloring books have lines, but no one said what colors to use.
>>153032737I absolutely blame Marvel. Stay the fuck out of the way.
>>153031190That's a weird reading of most of those stories. Yes, he did turn Sharon Carter into a morally ambiguous character who was angry at America for SHIELD abandoning her in a hostile country and faking her death, or whatever it was Waid came up with to explain her return, but it's pretty clear that she and Cap are reluctantly making a short-term unholy alliance with the Red Skull just to prevent the resurrection of Hitler. Cap is being told to not destroy the Cosmic Cube that Hitler's trapped inside as it wouldn't kill him, it would release him. Then Cap destroys it anyway, Jurgens' Cap run pays off on this having released Hitler.The Zodiac story was a crossover across Cap, Thor, Iron Man and Avengers, introducing a new iteration of the group, as both previous incarnations of the Zodiac had been killed. Even if it's true that Waid hated the story, Marvel have reprinted it a few times, and Libra, the Zodiac leader in the story, wasn't one of the characters Busiek and Stern retconned away via Immortus in Avenger Forever. That iteration of the Zodiac was never followed up on, virtually every writer to use the Zodiac since has introduced their own new version of the group.The shield situation was obviously a short-term change that got resolved by the end of the run.>>153031287He didn't literally steal US Agent's shield, he was using the same technology Walker had been using, while around the same time US Agent stopped using an energy shield.
>>153032706By what came out, Mandarin was already dropped from the plot. Also the actual Titanium Man was supposed to be involved with him instead of Gremlin wearing cosplay for some reason, but he was dead.
>>153032896>By what came out, Mandarin was already dropped from the plot.OK, that makes more sense.>Also the actual Titanium Man was supposed to be involved with him instead of Gremlin wearing cosplay for some reason, but he was dead.He got seemingly killed in Walt Simonson's Thor run a few years earlier, while the Gremlin had joined the Soviet Super Soldiers in a Rom Spaceknight storyline, so making him take over as the new Titanium Man was a way to make things work.Then the Gremlin got killed next time he showed up, and the original Titanium Man returned in the Soviet Super Solders one-shot, which was probably originally meant to be a Marvel Comics Presents serial.IIRC the Russian team just disappeared from the story entirely in the last issue of X-Men vs Avengers.
>>153019575I think that's fair to say Englehart was more consistent in 70s Marvel, with Gerber it's sort of a roll of the dice on how good it's going to be, and sometimes if someone else will take over the book, not have any idea what Gerber was doing, and finish the story in an unsatisfactory way (I've seen it happen at least twice, with Guardians of the Galaxy and Morbius, there may have been more times). But with Gerber you're often going to get something memorably weird, even the throwaway stories are usually a lot of fun.
>>153032953Soviet Super Politics are complicated.
I voted for a Roger Stern Avengers omnibus on that most wanted Marvel omnibus poll, they better fucking make one
>>153033201>Roger Stern Avengers omnibusThat's common sense!
>>153033201>oneOr two, rather. Or would it be three?
>>153033230What is?
>>153033242Releasing an omnibus
>>153033253Well they haven't done one yet... and even the epic line is still missing one book (volume 15)
So was this blog actually onto something?https://originalmarveluniverse.blogspot.com/
>>152998376Squadron Supreme, Kellypool, Stern & Busiek Avengers
>>153033370Redpill me on Joe Kelly's Deadpool
>>153033459Kelly basically defined all the good parts of Deadpool. You get the story of a very flawed, very tragic man trying very hard to not be an insane killer and failing miserably.
>>153033526>all the good partsThis is what I've heard before. Interested.
>>153033556It is good.
>>153033349It’s probably onto more things than current Marvel, anyways.I do wonder why the author gave Wanda being raped so much focus in his Magneto article though.
>>153033349He makes some interesting points. Though I think I have a very different dividing line than he does.
>>153034283>On an unrelated point, Magneto’s sexual abuse of the Scarlet Witch is my attempt to explain what happened to her to lead her to see a weird-looking artificial man, the Vision, as husband material, along with her other apparent sexual hang-ups. Given Magneto’s violent abuse of both Mastermind and the Toad, as well as his other insane, ruthless actions during this period, molestation can hardly be said to be out of character for the Mutant Master of Magnetism. That said, it’s possible Magneto was being manipulated by Immortus as part of his own long-range plans for Wanda, as hinted at in Avengers West Coast #60. For further discussion of this admittedly controversial idea, see OMU: ScarletWitch -- Part One and How Would You Fix... the Scarlet Witch’s Insanity?
>>153034692Magneto was so comically evil
>>153035507https://originalmarveluniverse.blogspot.com/2007/03/omw-lorelei.htmlThis is rather unpleasant. Maybe it would be best to avoid such things.
>>153034692Yeah, >>153036342. It’s not that I don’t believe it’s something Magneto would do, more that the author seems to bring it up an awful lot in places it doesn’t really need to be. There was a whole aside in the Magneto timeline where he talked about Wanda flinching at his touch when she was otherwise unrelated, or confirming that Magneto was still raping her every other entry or so.
>>153036862They actually addressed that in Onslaught; Magneto wasn't raping Wanda so much as torturing her non stop because she quickly realized Magneto was Mutant Hitler when he saved her and her brother and Magneto using violent force on her whenever Piotro wasn't looking due to him being bamboozled by Magneto
>>153038102Oh, well so long as there was no rape then everything's just hunky dorey
>>152998376My favorite pre-9/11 Marvel comics.
>>153034692Oh God, this guy. He seems to have gotten all his ideas about the Wanda/Vision relationship from John Byrne's destructive take on them, and can't comprehend that they just fell in love, he has to make it some kind of mental illness and trauma on Wanda's part, with this really unpleasant headcanon about her being a serial rape victim to several different villains despite never mentioning it nor even thinking about it.It's impossible to take anything else the guy says seriously when he's got insane and evil headcanon like that and he's comfortable putting it out there for everyone to see.
>>153026553nocenti went on to become a journalist/documentary filmmaker, and you can see all that human interest stuff in her daredevil. matt opens up a nonprofit legal clinic. the working-class residents of hells kitchen become his supporting cast. there's a kid gang running amuck, jack kirby style. it's a bit like the old superman comics: matt murdock encounters a problem, tries to solve it through legal channels best he can, but has to step in as daredevil to get anything done.i thought it was fun, anyway. and i'm a sucker for JRJR.
>>153033526>Kelly basically defined all the good parts of Deadpool.It's a very good run, one of the best things in the second half of the 90s at Marvel, but I wouldn't say he 'defined' those parts of Deadpool, most of it was all there already, and his two earlier minis had already been playing with the idea that he could try to be a better man.
>>153033349my favorite of his is the idea that the peter parker sections of spider-man comics are pure fiction.>of course they are, stupidwhat i mean is, the fantastic four comics you read are 'real' because they're second hand accounts of the real FF's adventures, as told by stan and jack. however, someone with a secret identity (like spider-man) would never make a deal like that, so stan and steve have to make something up (and what they make up is peter parker). it's fun to think about.
>>1530387334 iconic covers
>>153039019He's essentially identical to a standard human outside of his superpowers and shadowy eyes, so I don't know why there is such strong resistance to him.
>>153038152The story as Waid told it was that Mastermind and Toad were constantly sexually harassing and groping Wanda, and openly wanted to rape her, and Magneto didn't really care, and would torture her for trying to escape the Brotherhood.
>>153039269And that is with having a brother who was entirely concerned with her well-being.
>>153039349Apparently Magneto could just distract Pietro by telling him to look out of the window and he'd never notice any of it even happening.
>>152998376I liked Gruenwald's run to an extent. My main issues were >getting rid of Bernie and Jack>the constant let down of arcs following John Walker's tenure as CapAll of these however still weren't as bad as when Waid took over as writer and completely wiped the slate clean after the "fighting chance" arc ended. Like I mean seriously, WHAT WAS THE FUCKING POINT THEN?!!DESU, my favorite Cap writer was DeMatties
>>153039185Usually it's the standard "I like hot girl but this guy she's married to isn't human and doesn't look like me so I can't self-insert as him so I need her to be with someone who looks like me", and there's enough of those guys even on /co/, but the guy who wrote all that schizo nonsense took things to the next level. He's chosen to ignore all of the 70s and 80s comics that implied as hard as the CCA would allow that Wanda and Vision spent most of their downtime banging, and instead hyper-fixated on Byrne's attempt to imply Vision never had a dick, so he comes up with this headcanon about it being an entirely sexless relationship and imagining it all happening because of Wanda having severe sexual hangups due to repeated rapes that he entirely made up.He'd have to hate these characters like they stole from him to have come up with this crap.
brb gonna read Cap
>>153039031>Nocenti went on to become a journalistThat explains why she writes like a retard.
>>153026553I don't like her either.
>>153038733Foolkiller STILL hasn't been collected
>>153043404It never will be.
>>153038733Man The Fury is a big deal but also not really.
>>153043875How hard can a 10-issue tpb be?
>>153028882I just looked at the issue and I dunno I think the pivotal moment at the end being drawn normally lessens the blow, but yeah that guys art is unappealing, even in a comedic way. Though, really? That much hate mail? Whoa. I can't imagine those fans if they were sicced on Humberto Ramos or somebody else. Really, any modern comic book artist.>>153028928Yeah it's good for like 1-3 pages max and then you might as well tell Byrne to get real and call him a scam artist to his face for relying on that joke or telling his editor to get bent.>>153028347>Big Jim bought Anne a leather catsuit I require source now and any quotes. Did she wear it? Any images? Did she see the outline of Big Jim's Big Jim when she put it on? Was it Black Widow themed? Is this is all fake? Jim doesn't seem the type to do that unless they actually had a serious thing going on.
>>153043902The politics and edge are what is preventing it from being collected, knucklehead. Disney and Marvel have gone the opposite way of 00's/early 10's Marvel where they were hyper edgy for some reason.
>>153043902I doubt that many readers and Marvel care about it. Here on /co/? Definitely. But 95% of the discussion I've seen about it has happened here
>>153044014>Did she wear it? Any images?I would also be interested in this
>>153044102We need to meme this more.
>>153043902IIRC it's never been collected because it sold for shit and only ran for the full ten issues because they were contractually required to and as such, is an old fucking shame that Marvel wishes to pretend never existed. Especially since it debuted alongside a murderer's row of iconic 90s books (adjectiveless Spidey, GOTG, New Warriors, Deathlock, and Ghost Rider, which like Foolkiller was conceived as a ten issue mini but got turned into an ongoing before the first issue hit the stands due to preorders for the first three issues).
>>153043404Didn't Bendis rape the 1990 mini series Foolkiller in Daredevil?
>>153044102If it's not X-men bullshit most faggot casuals won't give it the time of day
>>153044401I don't remember that. QRD?
>>153044484He's confusing books. Bendis had the 90s Foolkiller show up in the first New Avengers arc but wrote him EXPLICITLY like the second Foolkiller, the one who hung out with Peter Parker in his civilian identity for an extended period before Peter put him in jail after finding out he was Foolkiller. 90s Foolkiller never met Spidey and in that appearance, he was repeatedly threatening to kill Spiderman for sending him to prison
>>153044856So Bendis is a retard, got it
>>152998376Magister's storytimes have me rereading SSM.He hasn't done one since November, but I'm an obsessive rereader.
>>153044899I've been with his storytimes since the start and I'm impressed that he's made it this far, but I feel like the event spam of the 2000s coupled with the declining quality of the books may be the thing that forces him to stop for good
>>153044899Fuck Fagister.
>>153043902It's an expressly political and socially critical book in a way that's not pretty and goes after sacred cows on both sides and ends with him killing a Trump pastiche. That last part alone would cause so many dipshits to flip out that it's not worth the headache.
>>153045456Sacred cows you say
>>153005406I should go back and read this, All her 00's stuff has soured me on her character and borderline black pilled me on comics.
>>153045549You shouldn't sour on a fun character just because bad writers and artists got their mitts on her
>>153045600Well you a healthy functioning brain, I'm a crazy person.
>>153028882Waifufags, not even once.
>>153044892What else is new.
bump
>>153048652What for?
>>153028882>The issue of Spectacular Spiderman where Peter and Black Cat officially become a couple What issue is that?
You know something that still amazes me after constant re-reads? How fucking stellar both Man-Thing and Howard The Duck are by GerberAlso Killraven is probably one of my favorite sci-fi comics of all time and I wish more was done with the character because he's so damn cool and I FUCKING WANT AN ACTUAL ENDING BEYOND THE FUCKING GRAPHIC NOVEL DAMMIT!!
>>152998376I've read The Collection Obsession. The 1990s Avengers were my blind spot. In this story an alien named Thane eats literal shit from the sewers then kisses Sersi. Imagine his breath. I think she's crying because of the smell.
>>153050732Okay that's pretty weird
