When did /co/mics and cartoons become therapy sessions for the characters, writers and customers?It feels really weird to have characters breaking down constantly or fans being encouraged to psychoanalyse everyone, especially when characters aren't consistent between writers so they're not the same person
>>153057695Neon Genesis Evangelion (1995)
>>153057695The generation that grew up on shit like Adventure Time and Regular Show got into the industry
>>153057695Different age groups can ask for different things. At least Digital Circus was MADE for adults and heavy topics, meanwhile shows like Adventure Time were just hijacked.
>>153057722oh no no no, uh oh, /co/rannies wont like this...
>>153057695>fans being encouraged to psychoanalyse everyoneIs that not what most authors want people to do with their characters?
>>153057715Get in the robot.
>>153057722I'm not sure if the children who liked that are senior enough now to write anything... and doesn't Adventure Time fit my question?>>153057728>At least Digital Circus was MADE for adults and heavy topicsUm, okay?It feels like something for teenagers to me with no heavy topics beyond I guess depression, but it doesn't really treat that with sincerity as characters just sorta react weirdly>>153057753Uh, maybe if you had some kind of psychological thriller where a serial killer's identity is being pieced together as a part of the story?Why would an author want that?
>>153057695Spider-Man Clone Saga (1994)
>>153057956>It feels like something for teenagers to meteens to young adults, whatever.>with no heavy topics beyond I guess depressionuh I guess you missed the underlying themes of existential dread. Unless they take this show in a very different direction than I anticipated, they've been dropping constant hints that these characters are not humans, but copied personas. Data in files, and there's no escape for them back into the "real world." Caine literally says they're files placed in bodies. But I guess some people who weren't really paying attention are still going to be blindsided by this reveal.
>>153058048We're really doing this aren't weI should have picked a different image for the thread>it's SOMA!!!!Okay, so, um, like, who cares?That's existential for five minutes and then they moved onto interpersonal drama and literal therapy sessions quicklyIt's so cack handed the gummy crocodile went through the seven stages of grief and figured it all out despite not knowing what a computer is nor being told anything by Pomni, so how you can take that seriously I don't knowI mean, "I have no mouth" is a short story for a reason, because it wears thin, and I wouldn't call the Matrix heavy despite making humanity batteries doomed to follow a simulated loop forever
>>153058183>ERM, WHO CARES?You can say it was "poorly handled" or "not particularly impactful" and you'd probably be right... but you literally flippantly claimed something stupid about "it's only about depression or something I guess." There is no topic harsher than existential dread. I'm just correcting the record of a retard who said something retarded. I'm not interested in your teardown of the execution. I'm not even a huge fan of the show per se. I just don't particularly appreciate someone grabbing the goalposts and running all over the field.
>>153057982I would have said X-Men, the Jean/Madison saga in particular came to mind first and foremost. Like comics have been soap operas for a long time - if anything they're a lot sillier these days.
>>153058238I just said existentialism in fiction doesn't last, that's why "I have no mouth" adds more existentialism as it goes and ends with a terrible fateLiterally the entire show is about every character having a breakdown and talking about their feelings, the whole computer simulation is a backdrop once episode 1 ends and feels like an entirely different showJust look at when they all got guns, there's about 5 seconds of trigger pulling, 30 minutes of heart-to-hearts and 10 seconds about saying being in a computer ain't that badYou walked into this thread bitching about how it's an ADULT show, like where do you get off? You sound like a fan to me, a number 1 fan
>>153058404>I just said existentialism in fiction doesn't lastAnd I just said I wasn't interested in your input on whether it was well done or not. You said "DURR IT JUS' DIPRESHUN" and I corrected you. I did my part. You have been corrected. So stop trying to drag me into shit I don't care about.
>>153057695Boomers are selfish bastards and Zoomers are braindead retards, but Millennials are the mental illness generation. Millennials popularized self-diagnosed mental illnesses, snowflake identities, and under certain circumstances rewards being troubled and talking about it. Narcissists are predisposed to looking for an audience. So millennial narcissists became showrunners and made shows being about muh dupreshun, muh stargender, muh journey.
God I miss the days when /co/ didn't live up its own ass
>>153058479I got news for you, those days didn't exist
>>153058460For the love ofJesus christ, get over yourself
>>153058551don't know why you aren't saying that to the guy whose argument keeps evading criticism, but alright
>>153057695It feels really weird that youre so obsessed with this concept and you cant stop making these retarded butthurt posts and threads over and over and fucking over. What about this trend has you so fucking personally offended?
>>153058493Alright, well I miss when /co/ wasn't just two guys arguing about whatever the most inane talking point in a thread happens to be.I would argue with you about it to commit to the bit but I don't actually care enough.
>>153058344>if anything they're a lot sillier these daysWell, atleast the plot holes of the saga you mentioned are less fucked than whatever this is.
>>153058593>It feels really weird that youre so obsessed with this concept>What about this trend has you so fucking personally offended?That I don't feel like the target demographic?And that in "ye olden days" of a decade and a bit ago, characters would occasionally confront one of their character flaws and move past it to resolve the conflict, but that's completely unlike a sit down and talk where no-one actually evolves and nothing is at stakeI mean, I dunno, Space King is 100% an "old style" cartoon with fantastical plots and characters self reflecting to overcome a challenge, each man often embracing his better qualities to succeed, and I'm fully onboard, but then when I look at a comic like IDW's Sonic... well, bringing up the lesbian crying circle might be enough, it's like they copied some drama tv shows but took all the drama out, leaving only wordswordswords bitchfests
>>153058727He's calling peter a big old baby and he's not wrong, i'll die on this hill
>>153058807Don't steal Hailee's baby and send that to somewhere in Eastern Europe too, Shameik.
>>153057695because education, correction and health system is SO INCREDIBLY ABYSMALLY HECKED right now that humanity will die if movies and series do not talk about it. You might argue politics and co should not match but remember that who controls the media, controls the masses.
>>153057695Tumblr and it's effects have been a disaster for the human race.
>>153057753No
>>153057695>When did /co/mics and cartoons become therapy sessions for the characters, writers and customers?Faggot, even the most irreverent and crass cartoon of the saturday morning cartoon era had not one but two episodes about that topic, and not only that, both episodes are considered the best of its entire run.
>>153057956> but it doesn't really treat that with sincerity as characters just sorta react weirdlyIt's because it's written by spoiled kids, probably with trustfunds, who didn't really have a reason to be depressed and aren't lived enough to have real life experiences either outside of just going places and buying things. >>153058048I wouldn't say they're grappling with that at all. They're just going: "Oh jeez, oh man I'm kind of vaguely socially awkward like it's my first day of kindergarten and I don't know how to talk to people, and and and y'know I think my parents could've been more supportive of me and now I have to deal with, like, capitalism and stuff? Life is so hard!" >>153058238> There is no topic harsher than existential dread.This is a subjective opinion and the only people who feel strongly about it are the people who want to be vocally anti-Christian, as well.
>>153057695>>153059297Scratch that, three episodes.
>>153058460Existential dread is a form of depression.
>>153058466It's not our fault we were psyopped by Hollywood glamourizing anxiety while trying to force off parents into thinking we had ADHD in kindergarten. This was designed by a think tank before any of us were even born.
>>153057695>character development is... le bad
>>153058466>t. angry gen xer
>>153058761It's purposeful. They want everyone to just break down and cry instead of feeling like they have to nut up and deal with things
>>153057722>>153057728Unfortunately this, i cant tell you how many zoomers ive met within the past couple of years who actually enjoy the zombie seasons of adventure time and they honestly dont think they show ever dipped off in quality at all. It is insane, zoomers have the most shit fucking taste sometimes its unbelievable.
>>153059305Focusing on it CAUSES depression, but you wouldn't say every topic that makes you upset IS nothing but depression. That's reductive as fuck dude.
>>153059300>I wouldn't say they're grappling with that at all.Then you didn't watch the show at all. The gummi alligator was literally paralyzed and questioning his very existence when he saw the prop room, even if they kind of quickly hopped past it (it was an early episode, and it was setting the tone, if nothing else. It's definitely a theme that is present though)>This is a subjective opinionNot really? Name a subject heavier than grappling with your own significance in the universe? And don't act like Christians never have laid awake at night considering the specifics of death. Fuck off.
>>153057722>>153059347I wonder what age bracket made the shit for zoomers to watch and not know any better to begin with?
>>153059462>I wonder what age bracket made the shit for zoomers to watch and not know any better to begin with?I dont entirely understand your question from how you phrased it but i think your asking what generation wrote all the shitty cartoons that brain dead zoomers mistakenly thought was good and that would be gen-x. People like adam muto are gen x and while their kind were based in the 1999s, 9/11 almost single handily atomized all of the admirable traits of their generations cultural zeitgeist.
>>153059426Its possible to be existential without being depressed, especially if you're religious. You're referring specifically to existential dread which is a form of depression that just manifests around the subject of existential topics, but it's the same as depression that results from other things like romance or whatever.
It’s an existentialist show about flawed characters trapped in a digital prison, what else is it supposed to be about?
>>153059456Gummigoo dealt with it briefly though I'd say it was mostly played for laughs and as you said it was done briefly and early on before not being revisited. A majority of the emotional drama has arisen from the characters emotional baggage from their memories of issues they were experiencing before learning of the Circus and being frustrated at feeling like they unintentionally got trapped somewhere.Anything that deals with emotions is subjective. There's multiple things that could be considered just as if not more "heavy" i.e. illness, torture, socioeconomal conditions, etc and you don't even have to agree with it since it's subjective and someone else feeling unbothered by that but bothered by something else is demonstrative of that fact.
>>153059558> about flawed charactersI'm sick of pretending "flawed characters" are anything other than Zionist writers projecting about not watching to accept that they're evil.
>>153059552Yes, you can be EXISTENTIAL without being depressed, but I specifically said "existential DREAD" which is definitely a topic that is present. And again, boiling that down to mere "depression" is reductive and dishonest. It's a specific, ever present, serious topic, it's not just "I feel sad right now."
>>153059600Aaaand it’s that time of the night again
>>153059591>it was done briefly and early on before not being revisited.Yet. Mark my words, the topic was breached for a reason. They planted the seeds because they were coming back around to it.
>>153057695It's sort of the Zeitgeist of the current times. Talking about depression and other inner conflicts became mainstream, to the point where most media, even if it's not drama or adult-oriented is likely to address it at a certain point in the story.The main reason, I believe, is that the writers themselves grew with the importance of self-care being heavily preached to them, so they write and repeat what they know.
>>153059314It's bad when it doesn't actually lead to any meaningful progress in the story.
>>153059626NTA but i had more depressive existential dread while growing up catholic then after i realized it was all a crock of shit and i became agnostic.
>>153060041Meant for >>153059552
>>153060140They kill an AI. A computer. And his name is Caine, as in Adam's son. There is a bible allegory there, but you chose the wrong one.
>>153060140>kill godBased, fuck that motherfucker
>>153057722I don't understand this critique being levied against Adventure Time. It rarely delved into melodrama. If anything it had a tendency to underplay its emotional moments (excepting a few Rebecca Sugar episodes). Like when people got upset that Simon and Marcy's reunion wasn't played up more. One of my critiques of Digital Circus are the very on-the-nose therapy sessions between characters, which is something AT almost never did. Even in Fionna and Cake's latest season, which could've easily gone down a more emotionally manipulative route re: HW and Finn's relationship. (which I know you hypocritical cocksuckers would've loved, don't lie to me). >>153059347Season 10 was weak, but seasons 7-9 were pretty strong. Fair enough if it's not your cup of tea, but "zombie" is not fair at all. They were constantly pushing the boat out. Say what you want, but AT did not stagnate a la The Simpsons or Spongebob.
>>153057695>When did /co/mics and cartoons become therapy sessions for the characters, writers and customers?is this some new buzzword?
>>153059315I am a millennial.
>>153057695>/co/micsDon't drag the comic side of the board into this. Say what you want about the current state of comics but atleast we still have an action genre
>>153057695Since always? Remember how Spiderman connected with people because he was a poor lonely and bullied nerd that could never take a rest even with his amazing powers because life is nonstoppin suffering for people with morals?Amazing Spiderman #1 1963
>>153060349> I don't understand this critique being levied against Adventure Time. It rarely delved into melodrama.You fucking serious m8? The entire flame princess break up arc? All the bubbline shit? All the crappy pseudo intellectual artsy fartsy one off 2deep4u episodes in later seasons were also fucking cringe too. Shit like the lemonhope episodes ending was just fucking depressing and missed the whole point of the original premise of the show> Even in Fionna and Cake's latest season, which could've easily gone down a more emotionally manipulative route re: HW and Finn's relationship. (which I know you hypocritical cocksuckers would've loved, don't lie to me).Fionna and cake season 2 was fucking garbage because it diverted from what made season 1 fun (fionna going on multiverse hopping adventures with simon) into being mostly fionna being a depressed girl failure and going through the same emotional misery the writers put finn through. Seriously, why is it so hard to make the adventure time writers write actual adventures instead of boring and depressing melodrama that no one but them finds entertaining to watch? > Season 10 was weak, but seasons 7-9 were pretty strong. Fair enough if it's not your cup of tea, but "zombie" is not fair at all. They were constantly pushing the boat out. Say what you want, but AT did not stagnate a la The Simpsons or Spongebob.Pic related. If you dont think anything past like season 4 of adventure time is zombie tier then you dont deserve basic human rights
>>153060456There's a difference between drama and melodrama. There's certainly plenty of drama, but Adventure Time tended to avoid leaning too heavily into emotional appeal, unlike Steven Universe or TADC. The big exceptions are Sugar episodes like I Remember You, which was emotionally manipulative by design. Most of the time the emotionally heavy stuff in AT was underplayed by jokes, or AT's generally weird, offbeat style. It was rare to get scenes of two characters talking so directly about their feelings like you get all the time with TADC. The emotions of the characters in AT were more opaque, as a rule.
>>153060518Yet despite all of that TADC is still more tolerable the zombie era adventure time, probably because like >>153057728 said in that AT was highjacked into becoming something it wasnt meant to be from the beginning and forcibly turned into something different by the new writers, while TADC was always gonna be this way from the start. I will say though i still think digital circus shouldve been longer and included more comedy from the get go but as it stands its still leagues better then the crap that is the zombie seasons of adventure time. I wish nothing more then adam mutos head on a spike someday on display in front of warner brothers studios.
>>153060545I don't agree that late AT is fundamentally different. Keep in mind those "new writers" were mostly just the old writers, like Adam, or Tom, Kent, Jesse, Pen etc. TADC is a pretty different show. I like it, but it could've used some more finesse. Some of the dramatic/emotional moments come off stilted. Goose is better at comedy.
>>153060608> I don't agree that late AT is fundamentally different. Keep in mind those "new writers" were mostly just the old writers, like Adam, or Tom, Kent, Jesse, Pen etc.Its completely fucking different and also its wrong and bad too. Yeah many of those writers were there from the beginning but they got worse over time and once pen flaked out of his showrunner position thats when the show started to go down hill. The inmates started taking over the asylum slowly but surely until by the end you had finn being sidelined and forgotten about in the finale of his own show while his two love interests were given more focus and making out with each other instead. Adventure time became an entirely different animal from what it formerly was after like 2013 and what it turned into was fucking dog shit.
>>153060140>>153035105>>153035026Also i didnt get to say this in the flintstones thread cuz it got archived before i could reply, aliens absolutely are real and make more sense then your jewish fraud myth. Go choke to death in that crucifix you like to gag on like a dick you bible thumping hillbilly bitch
>>153060422There was no therapy session-dialogue, those old Spider-Man comics didn't have Peter Parker talk about his feelings with other characters. This kind of thing didn't come about until Millennials started writing.
>>153060656You can just say you don't like the spinoff :-)
>>153058851>if I want to hear how much I suck I can search online for #notmyspider-manAre they still being meta about knowing no-one likes Miles yet thinking it's the customers who are wrong?
I don't know what people mean when they call scenes therapy sessions. Are characters not supposed to speak to one another?
>>153060895I liked the first season, but just like the later seasons of adventure time the nu-writers had to ruin fionna and cake by inserting their horrible soap opera relationshit drama into it and killing all my interest in the show and getting the show cancelled as a result. Well done muto and friends, hope you all enjoy unemployment!
>>153061720about things other than their traumas and feelings yes.
>>153059300Whilst a reductive take it does feel like that.Like how one character has body dysmorphia because it's trendy, or another character admits to being a stereotypical 'dere, "I hurt you because I secretly like you!", because a short life of anime consumption means the writer cannot describe "I'm afraid of loss so I burn bridges to save myself and others heartache".And this show isn't subtle, characters directly state their own or others grief. For example >>153059456>The gummi alligator was literally paralyzed and questioning his very existencewas very bluntly written as if they started with "Pomni must have another mental breakdown over nihilism in the face of a literal god", something like>so we need to give her an emotional connection to something we can kill as a joke>a sophisticated NPC, we'll use plot type 5 where two characters are stranded and need to work together to get out, forming a bond>alright but wouldn't he die when the simulation ends?>you're right, we need her actions to be in vain and cain to be the source of her torment, so the NPC needs to become SeLf AwArE and for her to bring the NPC to the real world to die>how's he going to become self aware in 2 minutes?>aw jeeze boss I dunno, he finds himself A-Posing in Blender, that'd spook any cowpoke right? And I ran out of time so he doesn't even help the girl to escape so her affection kinda comes off as creepy, she doesn't even question if she's not real sorta defeating the point of the big existential speech>ship it, we need to start work on the next episodeAnother episode, another verbal breakdown, another character sits down to give a pep talk before solving the conflict by his or herself. The show only has one plot structure huh?
See my problem is that art can and should be therapeutic. It can be very cathartic to use fiction to work through your issues or express your feelings on a subject. It’s what art is for basically. It’s only bad when it overtakes telling a good story. Your characters shouldn’t have to overtly spell things out to your audience we should be able to use our brains and come to that conclusion ourselves. Subtext exists for a reason too
>>153057695The first generation of modern fanfiction writers are now becoming professionals.(Key word being modern like 2010s AO3 era, the guys writing Star Trek fics on paper in the 70s or on geocities sites in the 90s or FFN in the 2000s already entered)
>>153060397>Say what you want about the current state of comicsOkay!>>153061720>this is a therapy session!Characters verbalize their problems and speak their mind (that show in OP has a literal therapy couch and ink blots for one scene). I've only ever seen it done to play for time.Counselling, or CBT, have become common culture for the modern, self medicating woman or womanly man, and is viewed negatively, including by patients.So it's an easy shorthand to say it is [thing] and I think it is [bad]. Like how you'd call someone an NPC or a sheep, or one of the sheeple, for having different political opinions.Unless of course you're pretending to not understand because you like these scenes but want to signal that without anyone telling you are wrong because you're internalizing the negativity as truth through repeat exposure. Then of course we must pretend therapy sessions are simply characters talking to one another and anyone against this is against fiction as a concept.
>>153057695Manchildren refusing to grow up+not enough actual children left who watch cartoons.Though, desu I think TADC is one of the less egregious examples of that trope and integrated well in the story, at least for the most part
>>153058238Existential dread is not an adult theme, it’s part of the human condition. Which is why it’s also a prevalent subject in media for children. Execution and content actually are differentiating factors here.
>>153062448What a patently false assertion. Existential dread is something kids shows do not fucking focus on. They barely even touch on real, permanent death and that's fucking obvious if you've ever watched a children's show in your fucking life. That's not to say they are devoid of such things but it's so blatantly, obviously NOT typical fare for them.It's like you're nitpicking just for a way to win an argument online, but you're so full of shit, and can't admit to even obvious truths.
The entirety of She-Hulk's last run was just trauma-dumping & food.
>>153057695Millennials and Zoomers (yes Zoomers are working professionals now) grew up in a clown show world with no future and no way to effect change so they were forced to direct their energy inward. This alongside the constant rolling disasters that just haven't stopped since 2008 led to two generations of very neurotic people using art to interrogate and express that fact.It's the human race processing the knowledge of our impending demise
>>153062505Xers were in the same boat but were told to just tough it out. Millennials grew up with school counselors telling them that they needed to discuss their feelings openly as a form of conflict resolution. "When you do x it makes me feel y."
>>153062544>"When you do x it makes me feel y."The crippling answer to this has always been "So what?"
>>153062544Gen-Xers had the chance to turn the boat around but didn't.
>>153062544The youngest gen-x'ers were 38 during the 2008 financial crash that began the rolling disasters we currently live in.The oldest were 53.
>>153062505>Millennials and Zoomers (yes Zoomers are working professionals now) grew up in a clown show world with no future and no way to effect change They absolutely could effect change but most zoomers are too pussy to do so and are all talk and no action when it comes to actual "change" in the world. Take of that as you will because i dont intend to go into it any further.
>>153062732You're tunnel visioned if you think there hasn't always been a crisis going on.
>>153063188Nta but things have gotten progressively fucking worse since 2016 to an obscene degree and i dont understand how people collectively havent had enough and said "cut the shit" already and put a stop to it yet but again this is the future most normies wanted
>>153057715I've thought about this and it feels like the difference is Evangelion never really tried to "UwU" its characters like a lot of these shows do.A lot of these shows constantly hammer this idea of the importance of making sure we all validate people, Evangelion had Shinji's validation hungry behavior save the planet in episode 19 while being very blatant that Kaji just manipulated him into going back by making it about "something only he can do", then he literally dooms the planet in the finale because of that same external validation-seeking victim behavior.A lot of these therapy shows will be like "Yeah they made some mistakes but people were mean and they have anxiety" while Evangelion bent over backwards to call out its characters on not confronting their own shit and was willing to show how badly they all failed everyone around them.
>>153063208Recency bias. Revolutions happen when enough people no longer have anything to lose. Most peoples' physiological needs are still being met.
>>153058048>>153058238Most of the "heavy" topics in TADC just go like>"I have depression and that makes me sad.">'Oh...'>'Have you like, tried not having it...?'>"Holy shit"They handle all of it with kid gloves because their target audience is below 16 years of age, either physically or mentally.
>>153062483>They barely even touch on real, permanent death and that's fucking obvious if you've ever watched a children's show in your fucking life.Image related.Anyway, you could pretend that Regular Show focuses on the existential dread of being a dead ender but waaaacky things happen! Wow, sounds familiar.>>153062587It is very disappointing. You would think the adult thing to introduce to a child would be how to then act on those feelings and what is appropriate but for some reason everyone's stunted and focuses entirely on expressing the feeling to a brick wall. It's very womanly and implosive.
>>153064152if this movie had been more widely available vegans probably wouldn't exist
>>153063782>Recency bias.NTAI am a little tired of "My entire life is over because of 20XX"We now have 2001, 2008 and 2016You'd think we were in the water wars or something and had no access to thinks like apartments, coffee and infinite porn
>>15305769580s was toy slop, 90s was adventure slop, 2010's and beyond is feeling slop.
>>153062637Maybe they didn't fully realize the boat was going the wrong way.
>>153064364What was 2000s? Post 9/11 slop?
>>153063357To be fair the Eva staff also had retarded takes like>Ikari Gendo is a very controversial character. How do you see the role of Ikari Gendo in Evangelion?>Tsurumaki: Ikari Gendo is not exactly popular in Japan. Many think that he is too stern with Shinji and that he generally exudes the aura of a hard, traditional, strict father. Gendo was meant to be a strong father who should have a positive influence on Shinji so that he could grow to be more confident and adult-like. Many modern fathers in Japan are "mollycoddled" which was another reason to make Ikari Gendo into a strong father.Shinji, Asuka and Rei deserved better adults.
>>153064724Mundane slop>what if a sponge cooked burgers>what if the grim reaper lived in the suburbs>what if kids in a culdesac>what if kids in recess>what if kids lived next door in a treehouse>what if kid with an alien watch>what if kid in school but animals>what if kid in summer camp but animals>what if kid in city wearing a skirt that's totally a kilt>what if imaginary friends in an orphanage>what if ninja chickens hung out at the mall>what if a purple cat ate cooked foodThere's no surprise that Avatar and Lazy Town captured hearts and mindsI also remember Quest and Storm Hawks, not because they're adventure slop but because they pretended they had the budget for adventure slop or anything but unimaginative plot structures
>>153064724>>153064931Shut up
>>153064152>here's one extreme outlier so your assertion is falseyou people always fucking do this
>>153064152You could have read one sentence further and noticed exceptions were accounted for:>That's not to say they are devoid of such things but it's so blatantly, obviously NOT typical fare for them.
