Is animation in the west really in its death thralls? Are we the last generation that will have grown up with cartoons?
>>153068249Adventure Time did so much damage to the industry it's unreal
>>153068249>Is animation in the west really in its death thralls? Yes>Are we the last generation that will have grown up with cartoons?No
>>153068300why AT?
>>153068249>says board-driven cartoons are dead>this must mean ALL animation is dead!
>>153068249>kids arent watching themThey would be if you hack faggots actually made shit that wasnt just tepid infantilized slice of life crap. Seriously, why the fuck did most of the industry creatives in the late 2010s and early 2020s only want to make this limp wristed preschool tier shit is beyond me!
>>153068342>>153068373
>>153068373I tried watching that gumball show once because /you guys were glazing it so much and it was like a literal show for babies that I would have instantly skipped as a kid
>>153068438The first season sucks, skip to season 2 and beyond cuz thats when gumball actually gets funny
>>153068249It means every show about to be like Digital Circus. Buckle up.
>>153068373At least the designs for the bears are cute.>>153068249This is reminding me of the discourse about animation before horse show aired.
>>153068249Porn animation is thriving right now.
>>153068476all 5 of them.
>>153068479>This is reminding me of the discourse about animation before horse show aired.That means on the plus side we could be on the cusp of a new animation renaissance in a few years again just like the early 2010s were, and hopefully this time the industry will stay that way and it wont be a fluke like the way the early 2010s renaissance was. On the negative side that means theres a strong chance that another show/fandom comparable to horse show is on the horizon soon...Hold onto yer butts, fellas
>>153068249>kids arent watching thembased kids all these new age shows are shit and they can tell
why doesnt someone just make a streaming service dedicated to cartoons
>>153068249No, stfu retarded autist
Artists will always create art.
>>153068591Retard lmao
>>153068547>early 2010s>animation renaissanceNigger, it was the beginning of the end.
>>153068583>why doesnt someone just make a streaming service dedicated to cartoonsBecause modern execs genuinely hate animation. I dont know what it is but within the last five years or so especially its like every single major CEO in hollywood has turned into the biggest cartoon hater on earth, especially zaslav that oven dodging prick
>>153068572Arewe talking about the same kids that consume shitty shorts, tiktok and AI slop?
>>153068373>why the fuck did most of the industry creatives in the late 2010s and early 2020s only want to make this limp wristed preschool tier shit is beyond me!Because nobody but limp wristed faggots could get into the industry in early 2010 and 2020
>>153068373This is literally what they were taught to do in school, it's the Calarts style. only the most basic simplistic and dull doodles they can quickly draw over and over and over.
>>153068607you talking to yourself?
>>153068611The early 2010s was the last time it felt animation was really getting good again and trying to legitimize itself with really great shows and movies coming out around that era. It all feel apart by 2016 but in that small window of time it actually felt like the future was bright for the industry and it should've been.
>>153068615yes. these new cartoons are gay as fuck
Let the industry crash
>>153068249The Eagles truly are the Reddit team, with the Bills a close second
>>153068583Because children don't have wallets.It's the age old "we have it at home!" problem. You want cartoons? Be happy with Netflix.
Bullshit, these basedfaggots just need to shake the executives hands more firmly
>>153068657A U T I S M
>>153068249The current American industry is absolutely in need of a restart, but the idea that the whole industry as a whole will just completely die and never return is ridiculous.There will always, an I mean ALWAYS be a market for animated shows and movies, and the successes of projects like Spiderverse, or Bluey, or Zootopia, is proof of that.Even if somehow the industry does die (ie every major studios just gives up),>>153068597 is correct in that there will always be someone doing it purely for the art.
>>153068583>streaming service dedicated to cartoonsHow much are you willing to pay per month for this service, and how many new shows do you feel would justify it?
>>153068249Would you shut your autism and just link us the source
>>153068583Because none of you will fucking pay for itCartoon fans wants Disney tier cel animation for free on YouTube released at least monthly Cartoonfags may be the most delusional consumers out there.
>>153068249JOIN US MATT
>>153068300the industry did damage to AT, dude>>153068249we're the last generation that's gonna have electricity and running water, dude.
>>153068778just use AI for the inbetweening and fire every executive.there would be BILLIONS of animation dollars if they fired the execs who funnel it all into their pockets. Digital animation is cheap as fuck.then air it on ACTUAL TV, not this streaming nonsense. that's the only chance we have.
>>153068677Nah, at this point execs need to be forced to greenlight more cartoons but because the industry is fill of California liberals who are all steven universe liberals who "love thy neighbor" like a bunch of flower power pansies, they dont have the stomach to make their bosses afraid of them like doing the kind of shit steve austin did to vince mcmahon back during the attitude erahttps://youtu.be/SL6ND8PfJQ0?si=2J1SvQ7uV43LygKPhttps://youtu.be/4gLjQiYBPQI?si=PvcaC8_xKOX3-BxPhttps://youtu.be/FEPs5C7Vdcc?si=q39IVMTuRRWcJBve
>>153068840Animation fans bitch nonstop whenever they see rigging in cartoons, how the fuck do you expect them to accept AI?
>>153068249adventure time sucked.
>>153068825Fuck off you doomsaying retard faggot. Ive seen your posts before schizo fanatic nut fuck off
western 2d animation has been virtually dead for decades. western 3d animation is still going strong. that's the truth no matter what anyone says.
>>153068597>Artists will always create art.Yes, but the kind of art they make changes dramatically with each age. No mainstream artist is writing operas any more. Perhaps in 50 years no mainstream artist/studio will be making cartoons.
>>153068934They absolutely will still be making cartoons, fuck off with your nihilistic schtick you asshole
>>153068914>western 2d animation has been virtually dead for decadesviva la france
>>153068954>Le horny honhonhon
>>153068954There are no French shows worth watching. Wakfu became bad by OVA, and Miraculous Ladybug became unwatchable by season 3.
>>153068657What do you mean, "let it crash"? The animation industry already did, it's dead.
>>153068583Unless it had a complete monopoly on cartoons parents wouldn't pay for it for their kids.They'd just make them watch whatever streaming services they already have. Or youtube, twitch, tiktok, etc.
>>153068583Because it would flop almost instantly.In part because most of the audience would be children and teens who obviously can't pay for it and poorfag adults who can already barely afford their current lifestyles, but also because there's just not enough cartoons coming out in 2026 to actually have a decent streaming service with a decent amount of variety, and all the older shows are already on other streaming platforms where their rights-holders get paid a hell of a lot more than any cartoon streaming service could ever pay.
>>153068373The kids have no taste. They're all addicted to tiktok and don't watch long form entertainment anymore.Smartphones were truly the downfall of civilization.
>>153068300It's crazy to me that when given the choice to make less censored, more mature television, with Adventure Time specifically, this is what they gave people. They didn't want adventure. They wanted to make a show about a failure millennial woman, and her relationship problems. And they wonder why their form of TV development died?
>>153068778>>153069056>>153069069>parents wouldnt pay for itthere was a time when the disney channel was premium cable, like hbo, and there were parents paying for it
>>153068914>western 3d animation is still going strong.I assume you mean exclusively theatrical stuff, because the 3DCG shows are also flopping.Even when mega popular IPs like Spongebob and Rugrats tried to make 3DCG spinoffs/reboots they both flopped horribly and got cancelled.
>>153068479Let's not be hysterical
>>153069110That was a time before kids were easily served by Youtube, TikTok, and AIslop.When parents see "retarded shit for kids" and "retarded shit for kids, but free" the vast majority of them are going to choose the latter.
>>153069110Disney is a huge brand though. And people had more disposable income in those days. And kids had fewer alternate sources of entertainment.
>>153069098Seriously at this point i genuinely believe in corporal punishment again because kids deserve beatings for their shit taste in media consumption for preferring tiktok slop and vidya crap rather then watching cartoons or playing with real physical toys.>>153069103I agree, they could've included more violent fight scenes or had more fan service like full frontal fionna tits but no, gotta have coffee shop AU relationshit. Adam muto and his entire crew deserve to be blacklisted for ruining adventure time.
>>153069123This. You simply cannot compete with free youtube/tiktok brainrot shit. And the algorithm can continously feed shit to the kids.
>adv time board driven show is deadGOOD. This practice was established to cut out writers by having twentysomethings who weren't taught how to write do two jobs for the salary of one. And no, writing fanfics doesn't make you a writer.Hey, execs! Pay for some damn sriters and pay for some actual damn animators!
>>153069144Why cant parents actually parent their kids anymore and help themselves from giving them a fucking tablet at 3 years of age? The next generation raised on cocomelon tier shit are gonna be so fucking brain dead.
>>153068249The people in charge everywhere hate everyone, including themselves and have no ideas. No legitimacy.The sooner we enact a cull on these parasites, the better. In ALL fields.
>>153069144I would say this and gaming are the main factors why TVA is failing. It's not like the kids are watching quality stuff on youtube either. I guess anime too could be a reason why, but I feel that's more of a teen thing.
>>153068373I hate to tell you this man, but that ship sailed years ago.The audience that wants cartoons that aren't infantilized slice of life crap generally don't watch cartoons at all these days, the only shows that have been able to attract an action audience for cartoons since ~2020 are Invincible and Primal.The only other one that was relevant was Castlevania, which decided to nuke any and all goodwill by basically just being some fag's Game of Thrones/VtM fanfic with a Castlevania skin.
>>153068438Gumball is a kids show but if you didn't skip Season 1 that's on you
>>153068899thank you for letting me know I'm becoming repetitive. I was kinda deliberately keeping it consistent to see if anybody was noticingit's still true though. settle your afterlife, this one's fucked.
>All those animators screeching that "calarts style," and "bean mouth" weren't a thing are all unemployed nowImagine being unable to take criticism so much, that you kill your whole industry.
>>153068890I thought it went without saying that in order to fix the animation industry, we have to stop listening to whinersyou should also not listen to rabid fucking fans who adore it like a religionlisten to the people who think it's pretty good, because they are gonna tell you the truth. They see what you're going for, and have suggestions. Think about if you were just doodling in a cafe, what kinda person you'd like to come up and ask about it. That's the only kinda fan who deserves any voice with creators whatsoever.
Animators should understand that their core audience isn't kids anymore. It's the adults who grew up on cartoons. Kids these days only look at their phones.And I think they do understand this because we get a more adult cartoons now than kids cartoons.
>>153069179This but unironically. For the past 15 years the people at the top have been trying to reshape how people think in order to reform society. Socially, economically, politically. They have been trying through culture and media. They killed the previous status quo and for what? Some unsustainable bullshit that people are rejecting. Things have been made to suck so much. From the decision makers to the footsoldiers, these people must be culled.
>>153069272how can they watch what isn't there?>>153068373how can they watch what's only on random streaming services? they punched their audience share so hard it shattered into a billion fragments. nobody will ever collect enough to get by again>>153069179it's true. it's almost like a conspiracy or somethin>>153069172first of all, "millennials" (that is, gen Y, but it used to mean Z) didn't have any kids. a few straggling genXers did, and they had them at like age 45-50. they're too fucking tired, their kids are too autistic, and they thought they might be able to retire someday but nope, fulltime work, both parents, foreverdid you know potty training has been on a steady delay? it's like years behind where it used to be, because no parents are available and nobody wants a stranger helping.my kids, if I have any, which I won't because I'm fucking 40 and I can't stand being around any women who aren't pretty damn close to menopause because they're fucking retards, will get access to real tv and real internet on a real PC. so theyll end up fucking normal. and then have nobody to date, so my line will die anyway.
>>153069339what's weird is listening to GK Chesterton and realizing this shit's been going on for over 130 years.but yeah it ramped up again around 2012. they killed off the old internet for foneshit
>>153069315>Think about if you were just doodling in a cafe, what kinda person you'd like to come up and ask about it.Preferably another artist with something of value to contribute, i.e. constructive criticism.Empty platitudes are for thin skinned egotists.
>>153069312Not only that but they made episodes shitting on the fans on occassion.>>153069322>we get a more adult cartoons nowSwearing doesn't make you an adult, nigger.
>>153068373they all want to fuck kids
>>153068612It's definitely Hitler. Dude was an artist before going into politics after all.
>>153069301Fuck off you hysterical bible thumping hick, the world isnt ending and your jesus shit isnt and never was real>>153069322I also agree there should be more adult cartoons but they should also try and get kids back into cartoons and start by smacking those damn phones out of their snot nosed hands
>>153068474Shit tier opinion
>>153068300You fucking retard. No. It's media consolidation.
>>153069354Yeah, they have been boiling the frog for a long, long time. But there are some landmark points.>>153069384Kids don't give a fuck about crying blobs and brown dykes. They're staring at phone screens because the TV screens are full of shit.
>>153069384>start by smacking those damn phones out of their snot nosed handsThis is an unwinnable battle. And certainly one that animators can't wage.I think the real strategy will be making cartoons that appeal to the adults, but are still family friendly enough to let the kids watch too. That way the parents will draw their kids into watching the show and they can be rehabilitated from the brain rot.
>>153069345>how can they watch what isn't there?Well yes, that's the primary issue.That's what I meant when I said that ship sailed years ago.Just to give you an idea, this is the list of current western animated shows slated for release in 2026.It's less than 60 shows in total, half of which don't even have confirmed release dates.The time to branch out was a decade+ ago, it's just too late at this point.The best bet for the industry (or rather what's left of it) will be to rely on indie output and smaller niche audiences.
>>153068373This is what the studios bought you absolute fuckwit, this is what was paid for, this is what was made. It's not that no one was trying to make anything else, it's that nothing else got picked up. Christ you people are idiots, you care enough to save images like this and repost them ad-nauseam, but not enough to learn even the barest amount about the subject.
>>153068373It's cheap. It's easy to replicate cheaply. It's easy to move cheaply. It's easy to market cheaply. People that were doing it had connections for others to do it. Schools were teaching it because it was "In", it was very insular.In contrast making an action cartoon with choreography or something that might polarize the audience was off the table. Also their marketing department fucking sucked at securing toy and merch deals.
>>153068342Early AT and mid AT are fine, late AT leaning so heavy into the drama and feelings and blobbiness, as well as being a lucnhing poitn for a lot of the writers/animators/showrunners going forward, didn't help. I'd say it's less AT's fault and more that it was the starting point for the transition to "Modern" CN.
I think eventually you all are going to have to deal with the uncomfortable reality that within the next decade, cartoons will be almost entirely AI generated and there will be their generations that will defend that decision.
>>153069479As usual, executives have absolutely no idea what people want or why anything succeeds, and just look at charts instead.>hey, that cartoon looks like this other cartoon I have that made lots of money, GREENLITHappens in every industry. That's why the videogame industry keeps releasing Concords.
>>153068583Animation is excessively expensive, which is why Glitch banks so hard on merch sales and pushes merch so hard. If you're not moving merch, you're bleeding money. Without ads, and a lot of them, it's even worse, and there's a very good chance that it'd have very little subscribers, it'd not have the kid market (Parents "already have" other streaming services) If it were free and you made a fuckton of merch for everything that it aired, and could actually push the merch, it'd probably be ok, but at that point you're just competing with people on youtube.
>>153069315>you should also not listen to rabid fucking fans who adore it like a religionHonestly, I think this aspect has really fucked up cartoons as an industry, too much of it is clearly made for specific rabid fans while acting like it's not.It's fine to appeal to your fans, but this weird schizo shit where shows are clearly made with a niche audience in mind and then the creators/studios act surprised when they don't actually make much money is just getting retarded.And then the audiences for these shows scratch their heads and wonder why no one cared about their niche cartoon outside of them and the other rabid fans.Also, please for the love of god, someone needs to ban cartoon creators from interacting with fandoms, I feel like 90% of them base their actual stories on what tumblr tells them, and then acts surprised when their show has no appeal to anyone who's not also on tumblr (or now bluesky/the gayer parts of twatter).
>>153068249There's a large library of old cartoons they can watch. There's MeTV Toons.
>>153069572I remember seeing a video of someone saying that some shows feel like they're animating the fanfiction version of the real show, and that really stuck with me. Like we're watching some parallel universe version of these shows, where it's all about cutesy slice of life shit, and relationship drama, while the real, structured and written plots are AWOL. The Tumblr generation really fucked everything up for everyone.
>>153069519The free studio cash dries up, but I mean if some one is determined enough, they'll find any way they can to make their passion happen.
does anyone else feel like they just gave up on kids too early? like they put on some lame cartoons, kids tuned out and they just gave up on trying to appeal to them
>>153069710Dying Boomers didn't want to pass it on to their grand kids, they wanted to keep it all for themselves.Japan, Canada and France, however, outsourced America's work to Korea, who in turn sent it to Vietnam. So, I guess if you can find cheap labor you can make cartoons. Just keep passing the buck, and collecting Merch revenue. And legitimize firing your talent to save profits and never re-invest.
>>153068249the industry straight up can't compete with anime or even the filthy french on the same scale and even if it tried they don't have the talent. It's just going to remain in a spiral with a handful of decent things until the industry collapses and is slowly rebuilt
>>153068583That's kinda what VRV was, it bombed
>>153068249The issue with the animation industry is that companies and studios keep hiring the most mediocre retards with massive egos and little to no talent to back that up. What kid is going to watch lesbian melodrama or some Calarts blob shit?
>>153068249yeah It combines the worst aspects of several different industries, made of terrible people that have no talent. look at the new SpongeBob episodes. who the fuck wants to watch that garbage? what about the Simpsons new episodes? More garbage. they are following a structure that has been repeated since before even the '90s. It's not something taken seriously. All of it is in the mindset of young children watching, and nothing more. they started trying to touch the older viewer market, but I just don't think they took that seriously enough either. You get stuff like Steven universe or Fiona and cake. meanwhile, Sailor Moon blows both of them out of the water, and they both try to ape things from that series poorly. It doesn't help that American culture itself has been poisoned, so the water you're using to try to nourish the new sprouts in the garden is choking out the possibilities as well. honestly it's just such a big mess, they should just go with what curators like glitch studios do. get a cool idea and help it grow in popularity online. You have more freedom and less finger wagging parents anyway.
>>153068300No you retard, it's streaming that caused this mess. There's no incentive to keep making episodes and shows to generate ad revenue like in the good old days because linear TV is fucking dead.
>>153069710they were never gonna be able to compete, not with free and infinite and precision-engineered-for-retention youtube and tiktok video
>>153068632I accept your concession.
>>153068300It's streaming that killed cartoons, along with movies, and Tv, and art in general
>>153068249TADC is doing fine and it's just as board driven
>>153069511It will not ever happen as much as i know you retard jeets want it too. Ai bubble is already bursting anyways
>>153068547I don't know why you people think animation in the 2000s sucked. It had the most funny and creative shows besides Adventure Time whiconly continued the Golden era. Pen ruined it by hiring limp wristed men and women from Tumblr.
>>153069528So what your saying is we need a return to the 1980s model? I've always told you faggots that was the only good model. Toys/merch with animation has ALWAYS BEEN THE WAY! SELL TOYS DIPSHITS! STOP LISTENING TO JOHN K!
>>153068300I hate Millennials
>>153068934And replace Cartoons with what? That's not a good comparison. Opera is a type of music.
>>153068647So what the 2000s was just shit? Bitter millennial retard.
>>153070722TADC is script driven. Board driven means the dialogue is written by the storyboarders.
>>153068840AI isn't the answer. Fire the executives and replace them with actual artists and mot some bald corporate faggot who hates art and only wants a big paycheck.
>>153069115Theatrical quality. 3DTV is low quality slop. Always has been.
>>153069018ML got bad because it's thw same thing over and over again. They love each other but don't know their secret identities. Boring.
>>153070986Merch? yes, Toys NoKids don't buy toys anymore but they do still buy branded backpacks and shirts and plushies, and adults buy all that also with the added product of models on top.
>>153068547I don't see how a renaissance will happen without some sort of major change in the industry and the streaming system in general.
>>153069384Imagine still hating on Christians when the Epstein Files says the elites are literally baby fucking anf baby eating satanists.
>>153071041You underestimate the fat sweaty anime fans wo buy toys of their favorite characters to masterbate to.
>>153068249>The end of storyboard driven cartoons means death for Western animation This board is so fucking ignorant with how the industry works
>>153071171Also thank God, we can finally have SCRIPT driven CN shows again
>>153071171>storyboard driven cartoonsAnd it still ended up with everyone just walking, talking and crying. Might as well be live action at that point.
>>153071041Kids still play with toys enough it's worth it depending on your audience age range. Under 10, definitely, over 10, merch.
>>153071171True, but it still sucks.
>>153068300This. The retards that are shitting on streaming are retarded because cable TV was peak fucking ass back in the day. You want to watch the new episode of Ben 10? Fuck you. If you weren't awake or doing something else, then you couldn't watch the new episode unless you recorded it. Good luck with that because you are a kid/teen who lives with your parents and siblings, who also want to have their favorite shows recorded just in case they miss them. Also, cable TV kills cartoons that have actual stories too. Fuck cable TV.
>>153071289We're shitting on streaming because the model has objectively hurt cartoon production (and tv production in general). Why do you think it takes a million years for new seasons to come out now? Subscription based revenue has totally changed the economic incentive structure that existed with cable, which is why it takes a million fucking years for things to get made.
>>153068249To be fair, modern kids prefer live-action over cartoons outside of a few exceptions (Skibidi Toilet, Digital Circus)
Because kids have other forms of entertainment like videogames, Ticky Tok, YouTube, anime, ect. Back when I was growing up, I had only videogames and TV so whenever I got bored of the Playstation I would just turn on the TV and find something to watch on there. TL;DR kids have too many (better) options of entertainment.
>>153071289>>153071316>can either watch really good shows completely out of order if you're lucky enough to ever find them while it gets ass fucked by bullshit cable schedules with no home releases to speak of>or really shit shows that are available 24/7 on an affordable streaming servicefuck this gay earth
>>153071366In theory, the shows on streaming services should be of higher quality, because they don't have to push shit out the door quickly to fill air time. Key words: in theory.
>>153068249>Are we the last generation that will have grown up with cartoons?Kids are growing up with cartoons, or at least anime. Jujutsu Kaisen is literally the modern Dragon Ball, and most middle schoolers to high schoolers I've worked with watch it.
>>153068583I've dreamt of starting a cartoon and anime focused DRM-free VoD store but I just don't think it's financially sound.
>>153068373>gay animation with good messageor >good animation with gay message
>>153069103I wish AT stayed as a fantasy cartoon for boys. The early episodes with The Lich were kino.
>parents just dump their kids infront of a tablet to watch streamers and tiktok all day>the few parents who try to limit brainrot/ impose their tastes on kids have an infinite amount of old cartoons to show them>live broadcast tv is DEAD so the concept of saturday morning cartoons is dead with it>cartoons are left to become nepobaby millenials' unoriginal, anime-inspired vanity projects about le depression and """"adult issues""""It's dead and it's never coming back.
>>153068583Those exist.
americans can't draw.
>>153071532I think the "end" of saturday morning cartoons/scheduled days of cartoons is probably what hurts the most. There was something special to waking up on your day off and some channels just went "Hey you, here's a bunch of stuff you like to kick off your weekend" because it felt nice when adults gave you a time and place for something and did something for you. Even the stuff you weren't super into, having it once a week as something different made it special.Sure it's nice to stream and it does wonders for anything with a heavy storyline and continuity, but, just flicking something on and seeing what you got today was fun. Helps expose you to stuff you might not otherwise watch.
