>Is called Molecule Man>Controls atoms>Everything is made of molecules and they are the fundamental blocks of creation... Despite the fact atoms exist?>Also immaterial dimensions exist within Marvel despite the fact all of creation is made of molecules
>"There are infinite possible universes in the multiverse!">There is a universe where character A goes from universe A to Universe B>The infinite possibilities of infinite versions of character A appearing in Universe B don't occur despite the fact there are infinite possible universe where the infinite possibilities of infinite versions of character A would travel to the single universe B
they wanted the alliteration
>>153099382Iirc there was an issue where he said that despite controlling atoms, he went with Molecule Man because it sounded better
>>153099382It's a case of the writers creating a character that could casually rewrite reality if he wanted to and then having to figure out how to deal with him.
>>153099382Starting a thread on pseuds with Hickman is cheating
>>153099382How does he even lose? Is he some guy that is chill most of the time and don't care about ruling the world and all that jazz?
>>153099436Multiverses are a cancer on storytelling, much like time travel
>>153101531He jobs against more powerful reality warpers for example the Sentry.
>>153099382Doesn't Blackbolt technically have the exact same power? He controls electrons and can also do wacky shit like spontaneously generate objects whenever he wants.
>>153101595The Sentry should never have been added to the universe proper, should have just been 'the greatest hero that never was' and been done with.
>>153099827>>153100518This. Alliteration trumps all
>>153101531For the first 25 years of existing he could not do anything to organic molecules so the FF tended to beat him by cheating that somehow like spraying him with swamp water etc. But after that he became a nerd that never wanted to be a villain at all and was a timid little weirdo trying to be good.
>>153099436>>153101556I am just sick and damn tired of multiverse shit at this point. It has been massively overdone in the last 15 or so years.
>>153101642I get it is comics and all, but I will never understand how characters like him have not already won. At a point you have to stop and think is this a good ideal to write this. Oddly enough I don't have this issue with cartoons like Loony Tunes or Droopy going balls the the wall crazy with their stories.
>>153101642This is stupid.
>>153101642I'm not sure how Galactus does not have a similar power here. Heralds have shows to have the same level of control over atoms to basically make whatever they please just like Owen, Galactus being a bigger version with the ancient eldritch intelligence should be a lot better at it than some earth monkey.
>>153101642That Mr Blobby next to the couch?
>>153101531In the early years, it was all a matter of confidence. Owen had really low self-esteem and didn't think he could reach deep into his powers (it was Doom who finally convinced him to do so). Later he became more confident and relaxed, opting to stay out of trouble and is by no means a bad guy anymore. He's in good terms with the FF even.
>>153099436What
>>153101747Molecule Man got Beyonder power. He's on fourth wall breaking level.
>>153101737Why?
>>153102595They fused once if I remember correctly
Heh..nothing personnel, Owen!
>>153102720Sentry has been fucked beyond repair in the last five years
>>153101718in secret wars 2 they solved it by him not really giving a shit despite having godly powersa cop-out perhaps, but I thought it was kinda funny
>>153101718Owen isn't really that ambitious a fellow. He really just wants to chill out and cuddle up with his plus sized supermodel girlfriend.
>>153099382>OP being pseud>claims atoms are the fundamental blocks of creation>learned this from an encyclopedia written in 1911OP can you tell the difference between special relativity and general relativity without looking it up?
>>153103137Can you?
>>153103202I can.Special relativity>deals with inertial frames only (no acceleration). space-time metric is flat.General relativity>deals with accelerating frames, explains gravity. space-time metric can be curved.
>>153101718How has he not?
>>153099382Have you considered that DC already had a character called The Atom and Marvel didn't want to use a similar name? Also, as others have said, the alliteration.>>153100898Surely you don't think Molecule Man was a Hickman creation?
>>153104416Fuck noI was just saying that making a thread about pseud writers and making the OP art from a Hickman issue is too on the nose
>>153102670Not even that. The Celestials created he Beyonders that exist outside the multiverse, and in turn the Beyonders created the Molecule Men that exist within the multiverse.
Generally the idea is that even with nigh omnipotence mortals aren't meant to have so much power and are brought down by their own flaws and humanity.
>>153101657It's not just that multiverse stories are overdone, it's that nobody has any interesting ideas for them, it's just used for a character teaming up with AU versions of himself, or it's live action movies using the multiverse for muh cameos from movies from 20+ years ago. Or it's a What If? cartoon or comic that's just "what if character A became character B instead?"Nobody cares about doing a well-thought out AU setting, or using an AU version of a well-known character to contrast the original and say something about them anymore.
>>153101747To simplify: Galactus's power follows the rules of the universe.Owen can rewrite the rules.
>>153103068Based, what more do you need?
>>153103137Quantum theory is soi and not real
>>153104542I recently read through Scott Snyder's Justice League and it was just such a constant parade of raising the stakes to omniversal levels but no room to actually explore them or even breath. It's just a cheap tactic to make your story seem big but nothing matters.
The entirety of Ryan North’s Fantastic Four run. It’s rife with pseudo intellectualism
>>153099382Irredeemable>He rewrites Newton and Einstei bro
>>153102926>>153103068to be fair I'd do the same, maybe use my powers to make artists draw my waifu
>>153099382>Akshually Starfox is a serial rapist because inducing euphoria in people equals roofies! So many people dropped the book after this and She-Hulk has never fully recovered.
>>153105762>She-Hulk has never fully recovered.Can we have a /co/ headcount of just how many perma-seething She-Hulk fans we have here? We can't have a Marvel thread or sometimes even general comics threads without it always turning into the same few guys complaining about the same She-Hulk comics every time.
>>153106956She-Hulk has been around for 46 years she been shit for at least 23 of those, We have a right to complain.
>>153104474I don't get it. How did the celestials end up creating a race that kills The Living Tribunal? I forget. Like they created them right? That's bullshit. How can those jobbers create shit that is only 2nd to TOAA? Or even contend with The Beyonder who is the wishing box incarnate and has the same powers as Molecule Man who was able to beat the Beyonders? Man Secret Wars 2015 had some real dumbass shit when it came to the heirarchy of Marvel cosmic. I'm fine with them existing but they need to reorder it or retcon them being Celestial creations.
>>153099436Infinity is such an incomprehensibly large number that fully 50% of universes have character A traveling to universe B. When you think of every possible iteration of a universe, it goes as small as half the universes had an electron spinning clockwise an attosecond after the big bang, while the other half had that electron spinning counterclockwise. Infinity compounds from there, creating and infinitely infinate tree. What we consider time is really just us slipping through the infinitely dense multiverse every fraction of a second.>but why don't I ever slip into apocalyptic multiverses?Because there are an infinite number of perfectly mundane universes, and the 'you' your consciousness inhabits is lucky or unlucky enough to be one that enjoys these normal worlds within your path of existence. There are also an infinite number of you that live in a constantly shifting hellscape, but luckily you are not that you.
Thoughts on the Moon Girl version of Molecule Man?
>>153106989>We have a right to complain.I'm just saying, you guys need to follow the Carolfags' example and just have your own She-Hulk general / containment thread instead of bringing up your same complaints in every other comics thread.>>153107017Anon, you're trying to make sense of a bunch of Hickman retcons he wasn't thinking too hard about. Sometimes a writer just breaks the lore and it doesn't make sense anymore. Then if someone tries to fix it, someone else will inevitably break it again or just want to reference the broken version, and slowly a character gets Hawkmanned.
>>153107208All Carol threads are legit astroturfing by CBR propagandists.
>>153107208I just brought it up as Hickman in all his CHARTS "glory" and technical autism just ends up being like any other hack writer who's there where they never commit fully. So it might just all be a gimmick and disingenuous like critics have always said. And yeah, it stings more because the whole heirarchy made sensw when Infinity Gauntlet happened and used characters from across Marvel's entire history to create this heirarchy and faggots just endes up ruining it. Lame.
>>153107271>and faggots just endes up ruining it.Follow any Marvel or DC character for long enough and things always end up like this, no exceptions. Accepting it is hard, but it's inescapable. Inevitably they'll ruin everything, the people who get to work in comics just can't help themselves.
>>153107017It's all fucked because the big colossal scale cosmic beings are the ones that get fucked the most from bad retcons, poor writing from writers who really cannot grasp those types of powerlevels, and stupid bullshit from writers who want to portray their new big event villains as really scary by having them instantly kill some other high level cosmic being. So one week Galactus can view all of reality in 5 dimensions and instantly reads all the minds of every living being on a planet simultaneously, and the next week he is a big dumb guy in armor that can be beat up by an equal sized robot. But also back in the 60s, the Watchers were on the same level as Galactus, not they routinely job to Celestials. At the same time all the gods of Earth could not scratch the paint on a celestial. Now random Earth villains enslave them. It's all retarded.
>>153107310Yes I understand. Sorry if I said that like I'm a noob but I just needed to say it. But it wasn't always like this. It was mitigated and the suspension of disbelief was within reason.
>>153107271Four letters G.O.D.S
>>153107341Yeah I fucking hate how disinegenuous writers can be. Like power scaling or whatever can be a bit finnicky sometimes at lower levels where they have a guy like Thor beat Hulk or something that normally wouldn't happen but back then they would invent a good excuse or plot point for why. But when you're dealing with abstract entities then you have to default to the heirarchy because the way they had it set up, the domains each entity controlled made sense and it is easy to follow. Sure, perhaps something like one entering the other's domain could mean they are weaker in there while the domain controller is stronger like Dormammu. But nah, thess hacks just say, they killed them and don't even bother. Fuck this shit. Guess what hack, I need stakes and basic storytelling reasons on why I should care that this happened.
>>153107363What even happened with that again? They all got new designs that were soulless but what else happened? More dumb BS?
>>153107341Power scaling stop mattering when The Champion of the Universe was beaten.
>>153107394Hickman basically ignored existing cosmology completely to shove in a bunch of shitty science vs magic stuff and make a backdoor pilot for a godawful showThe entire series is incoherent and clearly got canceled way too early but all we’d have been missing out on is more abstracts being turned into strong black women and some truly insufferable dialogue
>>153107402By who?
>>153107420Sounds lame. Some of the cosmology being merged with magic is fine considering how Tribunal was originally only master of magic but him becoming master of that and the multiverse makes sense to me.
>>153107446I can't say I don't want to trigger people.
>>153099382Molecule Man would make sense of a name if he mastered his powers (being able to control atoms) after he picked his name.
>>153099436See this is why I respect when it’s just basic multiverse shit with uniquer universes without all that split theories shit.In other words I follow the idea of just other universes being their own and different from the main one. Universe A is full of Gary, Cole, Kate, and Bob, and Universe B is full of Xero, Filer, Bilago, and Jamey.
>>153107455It is honestly one of the worst comics I’ve ever read and I’m seriously considering doing a Storytime of Pain of it someday
>>153102720Sentry could not even win against a nigga with symbiote
>>153107446Some green ho after doing 3 months of Tae Bo.
>>153107595Because of Al Ewing, Knull is actually as strong as a Beyonder, his position, “The King in Black”, is the Ebony King opposite them, the Ivory Kings. That’s not just a nigga with a symbiote, that’s THE nigga with a symbiote.
>>153107595Knull straight-up ruined Cosmic Invasion for me.>Oh we're doing a love letter to 90's beat'em up, Here's some faggot from the 2010's enjoy!
>>153107639Bro. Super Perfect Merged with the Void Ultra Instict Sentry 5 could not even win against a fat nigga wearing loincloth Sentry isn't all that
>>153104542That's the problem, the people whining "multiverses are always le bad" only read (or first read, which clouded their mind with a bias) the slop pumped out by late 2010s era entertainment where the objective is to sell 1000 copies of a character or assault the audience with multiple member berries at once or doing excessive upping of the stakes.It's basically an Big Event-driven problem compounded by IP Expansion problem
Knull is just Elric but gay
>>153104542elsewheres always ended terribly
>>153104542>using an AU version of a well-known character to contrast the original and say something about them anymoreOkay, get thisGuysGet thisOkayGuys SupermanBut EVILAnd he says "fuck"
>>153104542>>153105243>>153107760I don’t know much about the multiverse stuff but I do remember how I like secret wars in concept because of the whole “universe remade in destroyed multiverse has a patchwork planet for an earth made of other earths full of other versions of characters and what not.”Also I think time travel works well when it’s Terminator, DragonBall, and Chrono Trigger type of shit, keep it to wacky laws and as timelines and not a universe.Btw wasn’t Scott synder JL run the one with world Enders and that world Forger guy, I recall the main thing was also the Utopian Universe with white suit old man Superman and Final Batsuit Batman
>>153103137>Special ReletivityDFC>General ReletivityMILF
>>153106956To be fair, She-Hulk is perma shit mode for decades at this point.
>>153107151>but why don't I ever slip into apocalyptic multiverses?Nobody tell him.
>>153107532Supposed to be canon now that all the early restrictions on his powers were the subconscious result of his own self doubt. Personally I would say Molecule Man makes more sense as a name because atoms on their own are nothing. It's only when they join to form molecules and thus matter that they take on real significance.
>>153107765So just elric
>>153108038It is surprising how much damage Moorcock did to fantasy.
>>153099436They occur but it's like the tuner on a radio.Minute variations are too fine to discriminate so it's mostly just the strong signals that get picked up and locked on to.
>>153108080Moorcock is a weird duck.It's like he purposely made an Anti-Conan to fuck with society.
>>153108177It is a double negative; Tolkien made te Hobbits to go against the fantasy trends, tha would focus on the king Arthur analog (A.K.A. Aragon).Moorcock went against both del rey's bootleg Tolkien and Frazetta Conan, so his works ended up messy compared to the other two.
>>153099436An infinite amount of universes doesn't need to mean every possible universe exists. Assuming a single universe has an infinite amount of possible states, you can even have an infinite collection of *unique* universes without exhausting all possible universes. Like maybe all universes are exactly the same except the n^th universe has an extra mass that weighs n grams, but that mass is so far away from all other matter in that universe that it will never be causally linked to other matter.
>>153099382>Stops the moon's spinningWho wants to tell Plutonian the moon wasn't spinning to begin with?
>>153108428Sure it does. If your reference frame is the sun a lunar day is just the same as a lunar month
>>153105762This whole generation of self aware fuck knuckles was a plague on comics
>>153107855>Btw wasn’t Scott synder JL run the one with world Enders and that world Forger guy, I recall the main thing was also the Utopian Universe with white suit old man Superman and Final Batsuit BatmanYeah, Snyder did it as a sequel to his Metal saga, where the DC universe has cancer, and the cancer is Batman! Perpetua trying to save reality from cancellation with a never-ending cycle of Crises was a clever idea in a meta way, but the problem was that Snyder wasn't nearly as clever as Morrison to integrate the concept into the narrative.
>>153106956It's one very loud autist. You can't ever talk She-Hulk on this board
>>153101718>I get it is comics and all, but I will never understand how characters like him have not already won.Already won what? It's not like he's trying to rob banks or take over the world. Even back during the original Secret Wars, he just decided to fuck off and fly Denver back to Earth instead of sticking around.It makes me think about the end of Civil War II. Once you get powerful enough, you probably just want to fuck off to outer space or other dimensions and do your own thing.
>>153108519Yeah it's a real shame there isn't single female lawyer posting anymore... Truly a loss.
>>153101556>>153101657The real cancer is a company's reliance on gimmicks well past the point of burnout. They take any novel idea and ruin it by irresponsible overuse. Superheroes, superhero "deconstructions", time travel, the multiverse, etc. have all been done to death, and retards still blame the concepts themselves instead of the cocksucking companies that beat you over the head with them.
>>153108428It does spin.>>153108448Not like in the page, though.
>>153103068Sometimes he'll just roll with shit to see something different than he expected to happen. He got one of those super isolating Midas touch powers.
>>153108512Oh yeah metal introduced that whole shitty evil Batman crap.Also cancellation? Dc comics? I think I’m gonna die of laughter almost lmao.
>>153108236>would focus on the king Arthur analog (A.K.A. Aragon)Aragorn was more of Alfred the Great and Æthelsta
>>153105762>Slott writes Starfox as a serial rapist.>Doesn't realize that he already made Jen into a ponzi rapist and sex pest that emotionally blackmails partners into sex. >Somehow all this rape by deception makes it into the show and spins it into Jen as the real victim.
>>153108428>Evil Superman>BUT ACTUALLY he's far more powerful than Superman!>And in the end even when he loses he inspired Superman's existance in real life!What was the point of this drivel?
>>153108540Civil War 2 was so fucking stupid, this loser is hardly even the first pleb in the marvel universe that had the ability to see the future.
>>153107595I will never get mad at this page since it continues sending Sentryfags into an eternal seethe, exactly what they deserve after the shit he's pulled
>>153109742mark waid wanted to get paidmobeus was the most interesting charactera complete inhuman monster falling in love with the most powerful and ignorant being because of the sheer purity of it
>>153108768>time travel, the multiverseThose were hated for years before the capeshit boom, being called "bad writing clutches".
>>153108540It's one of those times I don't know if they made it hilarous on purpose
>>153109876>mobeus was the most interesting character>>a complete inhuman monster falling in love with the most powerful and ignorant being because of the sheer purity of itit was just "haha lex is gay for supes"
>>153112056>civil war 2no it was 100% serious
>>153108540>Once you get powerful enough, you probably just want to fuck off to outer space or other dimensions and do your own thing.To a degree that is kind of how it works in Marvel. Anyone getting to a fairly high level of power or reaching cosmic levels of power tends to leave Earth and goes on to do space stuff. The most powerful heroes usually fly off Earth and joins in space things and fights evil heralds etc. It seems like a difference with DC where the most powerful heroes in the setting stick around on Earth. The Marvel closest equivalent to the JLA is the Annihilators, half of them are Earth people that relocated to space once they were reasonably powerful.
>>153101556>Multiverses are a cancer on storytelling, much like time travelbefore 2009 NOafter 2009 YESI mean multiverse stufftimetravel stuff got old in mid 90s.
>>153104542I fucking hate multiverse shit because it is ONLY used for even more nostalgia baiting. As if the entire entertainment industry did not already shift entirely into 80s nostalgia forever and ever and ever, with nonstop references to 80s movies, sequels and remakes of 80s movies, and the very few new things that do come around still has a soundtrack of 80s music. Multiverse superhero movies means endless appearances of characters from movies made 20-40 years ago. Now it's all>Hey remember Keaton Batman!>Hey remember Toby Spider-Man?>Hey remember that fuck awful 1990 Flash show?
>>153107595topkek reverse siege issue 3 from 2010.
things are so bad now that I miss:"Marvel heroes are humans with god power with human problems""DC heroes are gods among humans"
>>153111171"time travel and multiverse were always bad" is a narrative that the companies are trying to push to absolve themselves of blame for their own Current Era hacky decisionsPeople were okay with time travel stories and multiverse stories long before that because it was used sparingly >>153114228Even that wasn't as egregious as Current Year time travel stories
>>153109763It is hard to understand what is happening to him.
>>153114570Multiverse, meta and time travel being crutches for bad writers, it means that they are bad for reaching them.
>>153114615That's what a hacky current year critic would think>Muiltiverse, Meta, and Time Travel are bad and not the writer or editorial decision!Stop falling for the corpo propaganda. I made the right decision to stop listening to any Youtuber who claimed Multiverse was bad and I ended up being proving right over time
>>153114657Like you said multiverse & time travel are good in small doses, and when contained to stories built around these concepts.The problem is that modern corporations are run by hacks who use these concepts as crutches to masquerade their poor writing.People are talking about it for years at this point, but it only reached the mainstream very recently.
>>153108038LMAO!
