>villain neither wins nor losesHow often does this happen in media?
>>153156744He lost, he just didn't know it.
>>153156914He gained a prisoner though.
>>153156744whenever this is the case it's usually because the person in question isn't actually the villain. The real villain is what they represent. Abuse of power, indifference to suffering, greed, obsession. They can be defeated conceptually without actually killing the person.
>directed by Don Paul and Bibo Bergeron>produced by Brooke Breton and Bonne RadfordEl Dorado was such a box office disappointment that the only one of these people who stayed at DreamWorks afterwards was Bergeron (he directed Shark Tale). The other 3 never worked at DW again
>>153156744It's pretty clear that Tzekel-Kan is the main villain and he definitely loses.
>>153156744>Oh no it's the guy who took down the empire that raided its neighbors for blood sacrifices.
>>153156744That's not the villain of that story.
>>153158460Sucks that El Dorado flopped so hard. I would've loved more films like it; adventure comedies with a bit of edge not often seen in mainstream animated features
>>153158648>enclaved its neighbors to keep farming for bodies in increasingly ritualized military raids
>>153158648That's not very religiously tolerant of you.
>>153156744I wish this movie was actually good, its got everything going for it, animation characters art and designs voice actors all on point and there's even good scenes but it just doesn't have any staying power, it feels like they didn't know what they wanted to do with the film and you can tell by watching. Its pretty on the outside but once you sit down and watch it its an internal mess thats not enough to warrant being a failure or greatness, just strange.
>>153160654>ritualized military raidsRitual warfare was always the most bullshit cope.
>153160706Glowie
>>153160706And this is why Shrek made such a splash; Disney was up its own ass and attempts to compete with them were just trying to do the same thing and making a muddle of it.
>>153160706this is true and is evident by it's legacyno one gives a fuck about this movie outside of the brown seductress within. its genuinely not that good of a film
>>153160706I love the animation, tone, armosphere, characters etc, but there's just not enough big scenes in the movie.The stone jaguar is supposed to be the big climax and it's kinda dated CG.The most impressive scene is them casually cheating at a made up sport.
>>153160677I’m all for religious freedom, but when your rain god demands the torture and sacrifice of children maybe your culture deserves it.
>>153156744>Toppled a whole civilization of serpent worshipping cannibals>Built an Earyl Modern period Spanish city on top of Zygurat ruins, dragging Ancient Middle Eastern-tier Native Americans up to speed with Europeans at the timeSpeaking of Natives...>Bred a whole new ethnicity, to this day Latin Americans believe the last name "Hernandez" (which means Son of Hernan) is so common in the region because of him.>Has a gulf named after him>One of Mexico's founding fathers, Servando Teresa de Mier, regarded him as "Father of the Nation"Guy wasn't a villain and won BIG FUCKING TIME, you only think he's a bad guy because of Zurdo Gringo propaganda of "Indian Good Europe Bad"
>>153162039he winned bigly
>>153162039>"Indian Good Europe Bad"I just can't believe there are people legitimately defending the Aztec Empire.The only people I could reasonably see looking up to it as their heritage would be the Mexican cartels.
>>153156744I like Conquistador helmets, they're look so very cool
>>153156744you can make a religion out of this
>>153162706The only thing I can defend about it is their architecture. That stuff is still around to this very day and is utterly beautiful stonework.
>>153158648I don't really care if you consider Cortes a villain or morally justified or not (tho he was definitely acting primarily to further his own political career), but this characterization of Aztec as uniquely bad in comparison to other Mesoamerican states or historical military powers isn't really accurateThe Mexica of the Aztec capital of Tenochtitlan were certainly expansionistic conquerors, and they did do sacrifices, but everybody else in Mesoamerica did sacrifices too. Furthermore, Mexica rule over conquered states was loose and hands off, leaving existing kings, laws, and customs in place: They weren't imperialistically governing, much less raiding existing subject states (If you're thinking of their Flower Wars against Tlaxcala, see below)See >>>/int/220624574>>>/int/220624756>>>/int/220624875>>>/int/220625074>>>/int/220625194For more info>>153160654Moctezuma II claimed that they kept Tlaxcala unconquered as a target for Flower Wars to collect captives from, but it's the view of many researchers that this was either basically cope and an excuse to justify their inability to conquer Tlaxcala and/or that the Flower Wars were a strategy of slowly wearing Tlaxcala down to fully conquer it>>153162039There's some merit to comparing the Mesoamericans to Bronze age Mesopotamians, but Mesoamerican cities got much bigger, plus their waterworks, sanitation, botany etc were very impressive even by 16th century standards. The Spanish often compared them to the Greeks, Romans, or Spain itself, see pic>>153162706>>153164045Even Cortes and other Conquistadors and Spanish friars "defended" the Aztec and praised their cities, art, social order, moral virtues and systems of laws and refuted the idea they were savages, see pic. If they can acknowledge that they had things worth praising in spite of the bad things they did, so can you, and as I explain above they weren't even as bad as many think, tho they certainly weren't benevolent.1/2
>>153164801Cont:>>153158648>>153162039>>153162706>>153164045I'll also add that I had to seriously half-ass my post there due to both being tired and about to head to bed, and also because I had to split a lot of my post across multiple replies to you all and hit the character limit quickly.I understand if my post may not come off as particularly convincing, but I encourage you all to read the /int/ posts I made that I linked for more concrete details about Aztec political structure and dynamics, and I'm also happy to answer further questions and go more in depth if you're skeptical about anything.I also do want to stress that, again, it's not like i'm saying the Mexica of the Aztec capital were actually super nice or anything: They were warmongering conquerors, they did do mass sacrifices, they were very classist, they had a draconian legal system, etc. But they weren't a dysfunctional hellscape dystopia and weren't oppressive tyrants. Say the Romans were a lot more imperialistic and did larger scale enslavement, while plenty of Medieval European powers matched tor exceeded hem in terms of religious murder when you include holy wars and purges, etc. They were bad, just not uniquely bad, and plenty of people glorify other historical military powers that weren't obviously much better. Again, happy to back things up with sources if there is skepticism. >>153163918Morion helmets weren't commonly in use by Conquistadors until decades after the Cortes expedition, actually. My thing is more Mesoamerica then the Spanish but as I understand it Cabassets and Sallets would have been the helmets used instead, though plenty of Conquistadors didn't have metal armor at all. >>153161902You shouldn't be singling out the Aztec, though, child sacrifices to rain gods was a wider Mesoamerican practice2/2 for now
>>153162039>One of Mexico's founding fathers, Servando Teresa de Mier, regarded him as "Father of the Nation"Being the founding father of a country like mexico isn't really something to be proud of...
>the mesoamerican anon is hereWhat do you think about age of mythology's new dlc?
>>153164913How so?
>>153164950it's literally such a shithole it's main global cultural relevance today is that all of the immigrants who fled its shitholiness are causing problems in its neighbor countrypeople don't look at mexico and say "ohhhh the pyramids and the colonial architecture" they go "ohhhh that's how a beheading looks like"
>>153164929That's strange, I thought they already had this civilization.
>>153164873>You shouldn't be singling out the Aztec, though, child sacrifices to rain gods was a wider Mesoamerican practiceThat’s not the gotcha you think it is
>>153156954While true, he didn't find the continent of steamy amazonian pussy he's been truly looking for, so it's not much of a win.
>>153164929The one to the right isn't Xipe Totec is it? I really hope they wouldn't pussy out by just depicting him with stripes on him instead of properly showing him wearing the flayed skin of a human sacrifice.
>>153156744You will be flogged, and when we put into Cuba to resupply, god willing, you will be flogged some more.
>>153164873Mesoamerican-anon.What's your opinion on this movie? Obviously, this is an historically accurate movie but I'd like to see your takes regarding it's pros and cons.
He lost, because Spain is now being overrun by Muslims. The Reconquista was for naught, and no amount of gold plundered from the Americas was going to stop liberal white women from destroying his nation with their performative and suicidal empathy.
>>153165537>performative and suicidal empathyThey really love that shit don't they?
>>153156954>>153160706acquire taste
>>153156744>he didn't find the city of gold or Chel's golden pussy He lost
>>153164873I do think it's funny how most folks who shun the Mesoamerican empires for humans sacrifice turn around and priase the Romans in the same breath. Like the Circus Maximus wasn't essentially the same thing but without religious connotations.
>>153164801>>153164873Not this anon, but on the whole "human sacrifice" thing. Not very unique to them by any means regarding a pagan society.One thing to remember about polytheistic pagan societies was that they didn't particularly view the gods as for or against humanity in their entirety. It was more like they were embodiments of the big and far less safe world than everyone inhabited.Even in cultures that particularly disavowed human sacrifice like the Greeks or the Romans, a single natural disaster was all it took before "this person must have angered the gods and we must blood sacrifice them."To my knowledge, the Aztecs were so hardcore because they went extra hard on this idea of "Gods that genuinely do not give a shit about us" and human sacrifice was so common as a sort of power gap between us and them.One reason Christianity took off so hard in the initial areas it came to pre-Catholicism was this idea that it was no longer about us having to constantly prove ourselves and there were no "big warrior heroes" for Heaven while the rest of us got nothing.A lot of concepts of religion really change when you learn these cultures didn't particularly love their Gods like we typically see people with the Abrahamic god, rather, it was about being humbled before them and acknowledging the utter ants we were to them.
>>153166804Strapping someone to an altar so you can pull out their beating heart is a bit different from arranged warfare. On top of that, no one thinks that period of Rome was great, that was well into its fall and is THE case study for the fall of empires.
>>153164929not him, but:>stupid ahistorical headdresses everywhere>quetzalcoatl has wings for some fucking reason>Tlaloc isn't half the weird troglodyte-looking mf he should be>random Sapa Inca in the middle, shouldn't be there at all if this is strictly mesoamerican>did they give Coatlicue horns? why?I give it 0/10
>>153166878>it was about being humbled before them and acknowledging the utter ants we were to themChristianity is still about this, perhaps more than any of the pagan religions ever were. OT yahweh was literally a yandere for human worship and thought little of visiting wrath upon man for disobedience. The founding principle of the religion even post-christ is that man is inherently tainted and can only be saved by supplicating oneself to a higher power.
>>153166878>To my knowledge, the Aztecs were so hardcore because they went extra hard on this idea of "Gods that genuinely do not give a shit about us" and human sacrifice was so common as a sort of power gap between us and them.from the admittedly small amount of material i've read on this subject, that wasn't the case at all. It was more of a cycle of life thing where the sources of stuff like vegetation or wildlife had to be replenished by sacrifices. They didn't even have to be human sacrifices, they were just preferred because it was a good way to swing your dick around about what a military powerhouse you were. Stuff like cactus pears were considered to be equivalent to human hearts in terms of sacrificial value.
>>153166878Fucking incredible to me the adversarial relation isn't more apparent, because everybody at least knows Greek myths, and Zeus reset humans at least four times then hid fire from them for making him look dumb.
>>153158578Did he though? He got exactly what he expected and wanted to happen.
>>153166901>Strapping someone to an altar so you can pull out their beating heart is a bit different from arranged warfare.Not to the guy in the altar or the guy in the lion's mouth.
>>153166980He wanted control of the city so he could sacrifice people to the gods, he most likely was just dragged off to a sugar plantation as slave labor.
>>153166997You're trying to say these two things are the same when they're not, one of these guys was armed and had some control over his own fate, and it's not the guy tied down to an altar. That doesn't mean gladiatorial combat was good, it's literally where we get the term Panem Et Circensus, a decidedly negative phrase. Don't act like Rome was never criticized just because you're not familiar with the study of it beyond anything but a pop-culture surface level. Rome had many periods, and the period of its fall is not thought by anyone to have been praiseworthy.
>>153167028>one of these guys was armed and had some control over his own fateRome regularly threw unarmed people to wild animals. What are you talking about?Yeah, they had a "fighting chance" since their arms and legs weren't bound, but they were fully expected to die.
>>153167062>That doesn't mean gladiatorial combat was good, it's literally where we get the term Panem Et Circensus, a decidedly negative phrase.
>>153166950Not in the same context. Even within the context of the Old Testament and those who place emphasis upon it, God's wrath was still largely reserved for those the book truly deemed wicked.As God himself states, if there is a single innocent in Soddom and Gommorah, he shall spare them.He held heavy love for the Israelis and would often bless them.Keep in mind, Yahweh himself was likely a war god before the Hebrews grafted the rest of his pantheon (likely referred to as demons in the Old Testament with their temples such as Baal's referenced) onto him. And thus these stories referencing these massive acts of nature were likely modified to more heavily emphasize a sense of divine justice. Like a lot of old religions, we also often find that those receiving such cruelty were often reflections of the actual historical record.>>153166957This is also very common though. People have pointed it out with Ares and how weirdly chill he is in half of Greek myth. And that's because in the historical context, they viewed bloodshed way differently. Bloodshed was basically necessity back then and moral frameworks were often built on making it work within societies we were trying to build, in sync with how the religions developed.We see this happen with religion in general and even Buddhist don't have clean hands on this one because there's at least one historical incident of "not buddhist, not people, killing them is just sending them back to their reincarnation cycle so they can become people" and in post-war Japan, since beef disrupted the "natural" way of doing things, Buddhist monks actually tried to fucking assassinate the emperor for legalizing it.Religious frameworks aren't just about creating a sense of moral framework but a framework that comforts when we do things we rather wouldn't think about
>>153164913Mexico went hard right up until they fell for the communism/socialism meme.
>>153167071>God's wrath was still largely reserved for those the book truly deemed wicked.Largely is doing all the heavy lifting here. He levelled a whole city and everybody in it just because he wanted his people to live there. There was that time he drowned every living thing but a boat with a single family on it and a bunch of animals. He turned a woman to salt for simply turning around when he said not to. Oh and that other time he killed every last firstborn of a whole city because one guy didn't emancipate his chosen. Just because god is written as hands off post-christ doesn't mean he's considered suddenly good and loving, you're still bound for literally eternal torture if you don't bow down before christ, you could even be the best and most moral person there is on the planet and you'd still go to hell for not accepting Christ.
>>153166970Zeus is a unique one. See, Zeus isn't the evil uncaring figure a lot of people with a more cursory knowledge of Greek myth make him out to be. The best way to put it is he operates on a very specific psychology.He's the god humanity reflects, but part of that is that, as a god, he is literally every aspect of man, amplified one hundred fold.You'll see this element of him where his most evil moments always stem from being horny, angry, afraid, or insecure. And in the moments he's calm or outright emotionally detached, he's a benevolent wise sage.His emotions and his emotional control are both far greater than the average personIf he were a normal human with the same emotional range, he'd have to be committed because it would genuinely be a disorder of sorts. It should also be noted that a lot of Greek myths were basically just Zeus or other figures being inserted into Cretan, Mycenean myths, et cetera. Some of it is pure fanfic from the Romans. (Medusa and Poseidon falls into this category) Because of this, Zeus is WILDLY inconsistent in his characterization across Greek mythology. But from what we can tell of when differing stories were recorded or woven, it's the early points and the late points where he's benevolent, and the midpoint of Greek expansion where he's kinda fucking insane.
>>153167151>See, Zeus isn't the evil uncaring figure a lot of people with a more cursory knowledge of Greek myth make him out to beHe's more horny than anything going by how often he disguises himself to seduce mortal women, and almost always as some kind of animal.
>>153167165>even the Greek knew>yet when we point it out it's insta warning/banWe truly live in empire of lies.
>>153167106That's sort of what I mean when I talked about the Hebrew culture seemingly grafting an entire Pantheon onto him and recontextualizing those actions as "just".The archaeological record shows that Yahweh was likely some kind of war god in the larger Pantheon who became Moses's patron god as he guided them through the desert, the historical Moses likely working as a general from what we can tell.Thus, he became their core singular god more and more as the story went on. Hence why the commandment says "No other god before me", because at this point they did still believe in a polytheistic model.You look at a lot of his wrath and it's always the enemies of the Hebrew people, which lines up as to why they saw it as justice. Canaanites? Cain and Abel. Egyptians, The Philistines, the Amalekites. All real tribes and peoples who the Hebrew hated so the Bible portrays them ontologically evil.Sodom and Gomorrah are unique because we genuinely CAN'T find their archaeological record and have reason to believe that it may have been one of the other Canaanite gods.Even "Elohim" is plural. "El" seemingly the main god of the Canaanite pantheon that the Israelites overtook in the transition to Yahwism.Christians often cite the pluralism as reference to the trinity but the archaeological record indeed suggests a proto-Abrahamic polytheistic religion across Canaan that was morphed into Yahwism and eventually the Abrahamic religion of today.Once you know this and know how ancient religions actually work, a lot more begins to make sense
>>153167289Sure it makes sense, but it didn't really change the doomsday bent christianity gained after christ's death. So it really just turned out to be more of the same in the grander scheme of things. The divine is mercurial, difficult to understand, hard to please, all as an abstraction of how harsh and unpredictable the world is.
>>153167165It's the most consistent trait. But the big one is his anxiety towards and relationship with fate and this is also a tie-in on his horniness.Zeus was seemingly omnipotent but omniscient he was not, and as it stood, he knew the family pattern, son kills the father. Because of this, the horniness he exemplified was something that actually scared the shit out of him.It was also why Prometheus was able to troll him so hard, as well as why he was surprisingly attentive to his kids as a father.Greeks had this whole thing about man and fate, and thus Zeus was meant to be as subject to it as everybody else, living in constant anxiety despite his vast power.Back to Aztecs, they had a very "warrior" culture to my knowledge and that plays a huge role in how a religion is gonna develop. You see it with the Romans, that core concept of "everything for glory, and glory to everything".One fascinating thing about the Aztec gods from what I've seen is that they're a lot closer to more Eldritch entities in terms of how little we understand of just how they think compared to something like the Greeks or the Norse. Even the Yoruba (such as Ogun) had more consistent psychologies from what I've seen and their afterlife is completely batshit. That said, that might be from Catholic record destroying antics
>>153164929We'll see how they play. Japanese were fun. I wasn't super keen on the Chinese but that's because of the slow ramp up for favor generation. I'm curious how the Aztecs will gain favor. I'd imagine some kind of sacrifice mechanism or system that gives back favor based on the cost of the unit sacrificed but I've been bad at guessing before. The armadillo units look like reskinned behemoths but hardly the worst thing in the world. Myth units are usually what draws me to a civilization but I'm curious about their heroes and their jaguar riders. I was pleasantly surprised by the Japanese so here's hoping.
>>153165121You might be thinking AoE3 or AoE2. Not sure if aoe4 had them but I know 2 and 3 do.
>>153167362To be fair, this was barely even a thing until the Cold War which helped pushed Dispensationalism onto the stage, and weirdly enough, Richard Donner's the Omen played a large role. Dispensationalism, a cornerstone of American Christianity, only dates back to the 1800s and insisted that Revelation should be used to read current events, but was largely laughed out of the room.Basically, the Cold War created a feeling in which we were already in the end times which put increased focus on Revelation. US and USSR became Gog and Magog. Israel = "The Jews returned to Zion". Now, remember that the Bible is mostly read like a reference book and most Christians at this point don't just have that popping in its head. The Omen comes out and views the Cold War through Revelation mostly as an artistic choice as the main character grapples with the idea his kid might be the anti-Christ, having a scene where someone makes this exact argument as proof of the end times.But since it used the actual verses, people ended up reading into those and a growing dispensationalist reading of Revelation began skyrocketing.Keep in mind we're talking about the country who will insist upon sticking to Scripture yet has a long storied past of letting pop culture or artistic depictions influence its view of the bible
>>153167394>fuck>why'd i do that>that's another son now that can be the one that gets me
>>153167516>guess i'll try being a swan next time
>>153167516In particular, he was afraid of an unidentified woman who prophecy said would have a nigh invincible son who surpassed his father in every conceivable way. Only Prometheus, bearing foresight, knew her identity. It was this particular feud that led to Zeus chaining him, though Zeus was already sick of Prometheus's trolling after the whole "fire" thing. The woman's child would end up being Achilles
>>153167566Considering how many pantheons share or steal gods, I'm surprised there hasn't been an invader/immigrant god that solved a problem like Achilles for a different belief systems head god.
>>153167602One theory is that Polytheism was a kind if compromise between different local varieties of Monotheism, with some gods leaving hints to their former status in their names and associated myths.Pan means "everything", Tyr just means "God", etc
>>153164873Cont:>>153164929Mostly terrible, very in line with typical inaccurate media stereotypes that are based more on Danza Azteca outfits rather then anything the Postclassic Central mexicans like the Aztec actually wore (see >>>/vst/2367623). There's a piece of art that shows a ghostly white deer next to Itzpapalotl which is a fairly niche reference to a myth involving her, but other then that and a few small other details it's mostly very dissapointing.Play Tlatoani Aztec Cities instead if you want a real time strategy/city building game, it just came out and is fairly well researched>>153165190It's not meant to be a gotcha, I'm here to spread accurate info, not really to debate morality, you're free to draw your own moral conclusions about Aztec and other Mesoamericans as long as you're doing it based on an accurate understanding of their societies, and for the most part the only thing that separates the Mexica from other Mesosmerican groups is the degree to which they achieved military success, alongside obviously some specific cultural and artistic trends.>>153165254If you mean the one on the far right, that's probably Xolotl due to the dog skull.>>153165471I respect that it's a good movie for what it's trying to do, the problem is what it's trying to do do butchers Maya society and aesthetics: The small village is this sanitized, idealistic anarcho-primitivist tribal eden that has no worries or even farming, while the big city is a hedonistic sadistic hellscape, neither depict a functional society and the complexities that go along with that, on top of everything being dirty and poorly made and primitive looking, aside from some of the buildings and the priest and king's outfit in the sacrifice scene (which are okay)I've posted about it in more detail here:archived.moe/tv/thread/204623679/#204637541desuarchive.org/co/thread/152289244/#152310774archived.moe/lit/thread/25015193/#25041194Also see pic related, 1 of 23/?
>>153167697Semi-related, but in total whacko territory, I wish I was back in university so I could attempt to research an idea I had in my 30s.I think there is a possible chance that druidism, cult of the cave, "pagan", and a few other older religion adjacent beliefs might actually be stolen Neanderthal beliefs.Also, I think north American religion was a separate genesis of religion which is why its so different from much of the world.
>>153167792I mean this is just a certain handling which plagued Indigenous American portrayals since the 1970s as apologia regarding the more "brute" savages.It's the same with the "fire-water" story. A lot of people seem to think the natives had no true experience with alcohol which isn't true. A lot of tribes had weaker alcohols akin to what would be drank during antiquity. What screwed them over was they had no experience with liqueurs brought over by the Europeans, and while the Europeans had hundreds of years of experience that developed alongside the strength of those drinks, the natives didn't and didn't know the myriad of rules regarding how you drank it compared to something like a wine. And the Europeans weren't innocent with a number of stories of this being used to malicious intent. It wasn't particularly the planned mastermind and when news of Native alcohol abuse got to the higher ups, the general reaction was "Oh fuck! Oh fuck! We didn't introduce this properly and may have just fucked up their entire civilization!".This leading to a conflict between the early colonial governments (particularly the French one) who wanted to regulate the sales and preserve a trade partner and the merchants who were selling record profits and basically created the whole "they're just drunks" myth.Meanwhile, "fire-water" wasn't some intrigued term the natives came up with, it was just the most direct interpretation of their word for alcohol.
>>153167792Thanks for your informative and thoughtful criticism of the Mel Gibson's movie, Mesoamerican-anon.People back then and even today utterly underestimate how advanced and complex these societies are even at their time and think they are backward just because they are different when compared to "modern" society and expect that the "past" is to be looked down upon.Apocalypto's opposite views (Jaguar Paw's idealistic hunter tribe and the brutal "civilized" society of the Mayans) aren't that different when compared to how medieval popular fiction such as ASOIAF depict Medieval Europe as some backward dark-age where medieval nobles treat peasants like shit and religious-fanaticism and witchhunting were happened 24/7.
>>153167792>>153165471Cont:And 2/2 for the Apocalypto images>>153166804>>153166901The Romans actually did have things more directly comparable to sacrifices, such as ritual killings to consecrate events, but i'm not a Classicists so I can't really speak to it in depth beyond knowing it happened and that some Spanish authors in the 16th century directly brought up Roman, Celtic, Indian etc sacrifices and ritual killings as examples of how sacrifice was common in Pagan religions and that it didn't make the Mesoamericans uniquely bad.I will of course also stress to >>153166901 that a lot of Mesoamerican sacrifices were actually enemy soldiers and some of it was part of arranged warfare, though as I note in >>153164801 Flower Wars also likely had geopolitical and tactical utility to wear down enemy states and weren't just prearranged ritual conflicts, see: https://desuarchive.org/tg/thread/97008953/#97015784>>153166878>>153166957I'm not sure I agree with this interpretation. It's certainly true that in the Aztec worldview there was a sense that life and reality was cruel and unforgiving, but a lot of the theological basis for sacrifice is repaying debts to the gods for having sacrificed themselves or given up blood or otherwise having expended effort to create humanity and the world, and humanity/the world itself being cyclically created and destroyed and by extension there being a theme of life coming and being reborn from death/destruction>>153166907I pretty much agree with this but I will say that Tlaloc's headdress is a decent (though misinterpreted, since the ornaments weren't feather arrays) adaptation of that one fin shaped ornament water deities are often depicted with which I am too lazy to dig up the Nahuatl name of right now. Xolotl's headdress also isn't totally terrible, it's better then ally the other ones in the artwork and he is actually depicted with headdresses like that on occasion. 4/?
>>153169168Cont:>>153167394In response to this and >>153166878 / >>153166957 again, while there's certainly an element of Mesoamerican gods being powerful whose whims humanity and the world are at the mercy of (especially if we're talking about say Tezcatlipoca), and there's some aspects of Mesoamerican religion and mythology which feel sort of cosmic-horror-y, the gods are still presented as characters with motives and agency in some myths, for example Nanahuatzin stoically sacrificing himself in the sacred bonfire as the prideful Tecciztecatl hesitates out of fear, etc.5/5 for now
>>153156744Cortes won though.
>>153161853https://www.youtube.com/shorts/CJkybJQIBT4https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesoamerican_ballgame
>>153156744>disneyscreencaps>movie is from dreamworks
Anybody have questions about Mesoamerica they want me to answer or should we just let the thread 404?
>>153162039Fact, Cortez wanted to preserve the entire Tenochtitlan buildings and architecture because not only the aztecs made the entire city a fortress against other tribes in the middle of a flood happy basin, but it was a marvel of technology last seen at Rome.But the severe flooding due to the destruction of the anti flood dykes and aqueducts made by the aztecs during the siege by them, sealed the city's fate.if nothing of that happened, the templo mayor would be at the middle of mexico city pristine and with spanish empire decoration around it.
>>153169765Yeah but he and his dregs from Cuba was suppose to make contact any people that could trade and make alliances with. Plus find any gold. Well, he kind of stuck to the original mission.
>>153158460The reason why so many people had the chance to like the movie is probably because it was on TV all the time.And the reason why it was on TV all the time is because it flopped in theaters.
>>153156980And in vice versa, if you killed someone like Cortez, another one comes soon looking for the same stuff. And as long as those Cortezes send kickback to the Spanish Throne, they can almost do whatever.
>>153160706>I wish this movie was actually goodit is
